txwikingerKubuntu Quantal Active session going on here?00:10
bulldog98txwikinger: that’s what I ask myself too00:10
txwikingerWe should use google hangout :-)00:13
bulldog98Riddell: active meeting going on here?00:22
Riddellbulldog98: yo00:24
Riddellvnc to ec2-23-22-97-169.compute-1.amazonaws.com 590200:24
bulldog98Riddell: username?00:27
Riddellfoobar  is the pass00:27
bulldog98rbelem: do we really want mallit board, if plasma active already has a board00:28
rbelembulldog98, are you listening the stream?00:34
bulldog98txwikinger: replace one l with i00:34
bulldog98rbelem: yes00:34
rbelembulldog98, we were talking about it00:34
rbelembulldog98, basically what we said was00:34
* bulldog98 is a bit sleepy, cause it’s around 3 a clock at morning here00:35
rbelemmaliit is more powerful00:35
rbelembulldog98, maliit have error corrections, predictions, more language support00:36
bulldog98oh ok sound’s cool00:36
rbelembulldog98, different keyboard type support00:36
rbelemthat's why we think that we should go for maliit00:36
bulldog98rbelem: are you talking about packages right now? cause I don’t know if the stream is right00:37
txwikingerbulldog98: ?00:39
bulldog98hm me is to stupid to see that he was listening the wrong audio00:40
txwikingerah.. no my what was the answer to them asking if someone listens00:40
bulldog98yep the ppa is cool00:41
bulldog98I’m not fast too00:43
txwikingernice flowers00:45
bulldog98rbelem: they have patches for the release at the same place as the tarball00:47
bulldog98also we want to look for what breaks the browser and other stuff with touchscreen (on my ExoPC) and fix it00:51
Riddellafiestas http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Development00:51
bulldog98in Berlin I got mine00:53
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bulldog98Riddell: that version you show in the amazon cloud is old, newer hasn’t window decos00:58
udsbotuuds-room-204: This session has ended.00:59
bulldog98rbelem: calligra-mobile is in and works fine00:59
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-room-204 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/room-204/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-room-204.log
txwikingerDo we get a tablet for free?01:07
rbelemtxwikinger, i hope so01:07
txwikingercool.. count me in then01:07
Riddelltxwikinger: maybe, if you promise to do lots of testing01:10
txwikingerRiddell: Sure.. I am good in breaking things01:10
txwikingerWas that the tablet falling down?01:15
=== tsimpson_ is now known as tsimpson
=== PreciseOne is now known as IdleOne
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-room-204 to: Track: Desktop | Kubuntu Quantal Images | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20596/kubuntu-q-images/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/room-204.ogg.m3u
txwikingerI think I do not get any audio here18:01
shadeslayerhmm ... nope18:01
shadeslayernothing here as well18:01
shadeslayeror maybe it's deathly silent :P18:01
txwikingerI think it is broken18:02
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
txwikingerCan anybody fix the sound?18:06
Riddelltxwikinger: nobody is here yet18:12
Riddellexcept a couple of people from the last session in here18:12
yofelRiddell: at least for me the sound is completely muted18:13
Riddellcan you see http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20596/kubuntu-q-images/ ?18:14
yofelah, ok, now there's some sound18:14
yofelthe pad works fine18:15
Riddellwell nobody is here18:16
RiddellI wonder where darkwing is18:16
Riddellso IRC session!18:16
Riddellanyone up for discussing the questions on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20596/kubuntu-q-images/ ?18:16
* Riddell nudges yofel, shadeslayer, txwikinger 18:17
Riddelldo we want to get rid of cd image?18:17
txwikingeroh.. I can hear :-)18:17
Riddelland replace them with 1GB USB images18:17
Riddelldownside: lots of moans18:18
yofelI think we want, that would mean we could drop all the -extra packages18:18
Riddellupside: breathing space!18:18
txwikingerAll computers can use usb .. many cannot use CDs18:18
Riddellyofel: like kde-workspace-data-extras and kdegames-card-data-extra ?18:18
txwikingerAnd you can always install alternative and then kubuntu-desktop18:19
shadeslayerOne big downside is Mac's can't boot USB images18:19
jussihello all18:19
shadeslayerso they'll need to burn a DVD18:20
yofelif you really need a CD there's the mini.iso - and I don't think worrying about the networkless PC's that can't use USB's or DVD's is worth the trouble18:20
txwikingershadeslayer: see above... alternative CD18:20
Riddelldiscussing do we want to get rid of cd image?18:20
shadeslayertxwikinger: what if I'm a new user and want to try it out :)18:20
jussiRiddell: thanks. seems stream isnt working for me.18:21
shadeslayerApple's EFI doesn't support booting OS's apart from OS X18:21
shadeslayerfrom the USB18:21
Riddellrbelem: send it to shadeslayer18:21
Riddelljussi: we're doing an irc session18:21
shadeslayersend what to me?18:21
txwikingerIf someone buys an Apple , its there own fault ;-)18:21
Riddella link18:21
jussiRiddell: oh, so no stream then :/18:21
shadeslayertxwikinger: so we just ditch those users ? :D18:22
Riddelljussi: dunno but more people in irc than in this room (me and rbelem here)18:22
txwikingershadeslayer: No.. there is an easy way18:22
shadeslayertxwikinger: plus, EFI will be standard in the future18:22
txwikingerAlternative CD and install kubuntu-desktop18:22
shadeslayersome future Windows will mandate EFI18:22
shadeslayerWill try out Unetbootin and report results18:22
txwikingerYou just said EFI only allows to boot OS X18:23
txwikingeralso.. can you get kubuntu boot on EFI?18:23
jussiHow important are CD mages to entities like schools and businesses?18:23
shadeslayertxwikinger: yes, but I've not tried Unetbootin18:23
Riddellactions: -change ubuntu-cdimage to 1GB images18:23
Riddell- but find solution to mac18:23
shadeslayertxwikinger: not *really*18:23
shadeslayertxwikinger: what you do is, install in BIOS Emulation mode18:23
jussiRiddell: wait, please answer my question first18:23
shadeslayerand then generate a EFI Grub binary18:23
Riddell-track down and update install docs everywhere18:23
Riddelljussi: what's that?18:23
shadeslayerwhich gets chainloaded by EFI18:23
shadeslayeror rather refit18:24
jussi[21:23:19] <jussi> How important are CD mages to entities like schools and businesses?18:24
shadeslayeranother downside is, not everyone has a fast connection ( hint : like me :P )18:24
Riddelljussi: large managed rollouts should be able to use USB sticks as well as anyone18:24
txwikingershadeslayer: We do not have any shipIt CDs anymore anyway18:24
yofelshadeslayer: that's why we're talking about 1G, that's not too much18:25
txwikingerAnd you can get supercheap 1GB USB sticks now18:25
yofellimit btw. we don't need to fill it up18:25
shadeslayerah ok18:25
shadeslayeruse as needed18:25
shadeslayerthat sounds okay, but just don't get carried away :P18:25
txwikingerIBM sends docu now on usb sticks instead of CDs or Paper18:25
jussiIm just asking to consider our "customer" a bit before we go just making things "easier" for our selves18:25
yofelyeah, point is valid18:25
shadeslayerEnforcing CD limits kept us on our toes18:26
shadeslayerwhat do we want to put into the CD that we don't have right now?18:26
Riddelljussi: why would you think managed rollouts need CDs?18:26
shadeslayerbecause if we replace kopete with ktp, we can gain more space18:26
yofeljussi: Windows needs DVD's too for any installation image, so I don't think allowing CD's is really that needed18:27
jussiI mean here in finland it makes sense, but how is it also in a 3rd world country?18:27
shadeslayerjussi: in a 3rd world country, 300 MB's is about 45 minutes more18:27
shadeslayerto download a image18:27
txwikingerWell. the question is.. how many CDs will be burned if there is no shipIt anymore for it18:27
Riddelljussi: rbelem is explaining that it's better to use larger images than smaller for brazil schools etc18:28
yofeljussi: if you *really* can't use an USB drive or DVD there's the mini.iso. That'll need bandwidth during the install though18:28
jussitxwikinger: exactly, lets do some reasearch on that before we make a decision18:28
Riddellbecause you need to get it through the post then can't easily download addons18:28
shadeslayerneed to run a errand18:28
txwikingerjussi: ok.. I am just making arguments for one side.. I can live with either option18:28
jussiIm not trying to be obtuse, but trying to make sure we have done our reasearch before we go makingrash decisions18:29
Riddelljussi: talk to rbelem :)18:29
Riddellhe's speaking here but I guess you can't hear18:29
txwikingerhow much work is it to do both>18:29
Riddelltxwikinger: lots18:29
txwikingeradditional work?18:29
RiddellI want to reduce our images not increase them18:29
Riddellshall we move on?18:30
Riddell-what to do with dvd image?18:30
RiddellI don't know what ubuntu desktop has done with it or plans to do with it18:30
Riddellbut their dvd image for last cycle was much stripped down18:31
txwikingerI think I never used dvd iso18:31
rbelemi would go for drop cd image18:31
Riddellso I'm thinking we should get rid of it if we increase to 1GB images18:31
jussiour 1gb will become the dvd image... right?18:31
yofelonly thing I find them useful for is that they ship both ubiquity and d-i18:32
Riddelland get rid of the 4GB image which takes a lot of resources18:32
* yofel wonders how many people would need a pre-downloaded d-i install18:33
rbelemyofel, to upgrade an existing installation18:33
yofelrbelem: that works?18:33
* yofel never really tried that option18:33
rbelemyofel, yup18:33
Riddellso no love for dvd?18:34
jussiRiddell: can we look at the whole picture for a sec, and find out, right now, which selection of images you think we need and why? How does the image ecosystem work?18:34
yofelhow much more space is needed on the DVD due to it shipping d-i as well?18:34
Riddellyofel: doubles the image size I guess18:35
yofelkeep it and dump alternate?18:35
yofelotherwise I see no need for it18:35
Riddelljussi: I don't know what we need it's why I'm asking one a time which ones we need18:35
yofel(even if they seem somewhat popular)18:35
Riddellmaybe this is tied to the next question  -do we want alternate?18:36
* txwikinger only installs a computer once.. after that always upgrades18:36
jussiRiddell: can we not just ship one DVD image which has all the alternatives on it?18:36
yofelwe *could* put all of KDE on the DVD, but I don't think that's worth the additional trouble18:36
Riddelljussi: that question doesn't make much sense18:37
Riddelljussi: we can't have an image with multiple arches and installers on it18:37
rbelemif we drop alternet we should keep at least jigdo18:37
Riddellhaving an image with multiple installers I think is of low value18:37
jussiRiddell: my apologies, but we can have a DVD with the active installer, the alternate and live installer's on it, right?18:38
Riddelljussi: hmm, maybe, but why?18:38
yofelRiddell: I think only the DVD offers to try Kubuntu out, and later install with full disk encryption using d-i18:39
jussithe point here is to make it as easy as possible for someone to install. if you do that, you only need to select arch, then on install you select which thing you want.18:39
yofeltotally edge case, but it's there18:39
Riddellthe downside to the large dvd image currently is nobody mirrors it and it takes up massive bandwidth and it's slow and hard to test18:39
rbelemjussi, active needs to be alone18:40
jussirbelem: ok18:40
DarkwingUDShey guys!18:40
yofelcurrent image size is ~3.3G, if we make it desktop image + alternate it would be ~2G.18:40
yofelstill too large?18:40
txwikingerhey DarkwingUDS18:40
Riddelllets look at "-do we want alternate?"18:41
RiddellI think possibilities are  yes alternate on a combined DVD image18:42
Riddellyes alternate but only through netboot (easiest)18:42
txwikingerwould be possible to do something like server.. you have one image and can select cloud, lamp, minimlal-server through tasksels18:42
Riddellor yes same thing of separate alternate images18:42
DarkwingUDSmy only concern is RAID, encryption and LVM. if those are addressed somewhere then I have no issues dumping the alt.18:42
Riddellhi afiestas18:42
yofeltxwikinger: the mini.iso does that, but you need to download everything at install time18:42
Riddelldiscussing alternate18:42
shadeslayerMy only concern is that there should be atleast one ISO that is bootable on Mac's18:43
Riddellso is netboot mini.iso acceptable to people who need alternate images or not?18:43
shadeslayerelse you're going to have bad time ;)18:43
afiestassorry for the delay, will be in the room asap (was talking about freedesktop/standard stuff) :/18:43
shadeslayerRiddell: I guess .... unless you have a shitty connection :P18:43
txwikingerwhat are you shadeslayer Mac fanboy or kde fanboy?18:43
yofelRiddell: as rbelem said, some people use alternate images for upgrades, so I would keep alternate XOR DVD18:44
shadeslayertxwikinger: I haz MBP :)18:44
yofeland strip DVD down18:44
afiestasdo we have any stadistics about iso?18:44
afiestasI mean, do we know how many times our different isos are downloaded?18:45
Riddellyofel: how strip it down?18:45
txwikingerafiestas: No.. there are too many mirrors18:45
yofelwell, make it just desktop + alternate, instead of adding a bunch of extra stuff to it18:45
shadeslayerShip 1 GB image with a certain subset of languages and alternate image that can be used by power users18:46
txwikingeruse apt-cache18:46
shadeslayerdrop DVD, I'm not sure anyone uses DVD's18:46
Riddellrbelem is persuading me that netboot isn't good enough for some alternate users18:46
shadeslayerPlus, no testers :D18:47
Riddellaction: -drop DVD18:47
Riddellcan we change the alternate to have a 1GB size limit same as desktop image18:47
jussitxwikinger: are you addressing me?18:47
shadeslayerraises new question, what subset of languages?18:47
yofelshadeslayer: I seeded 230GB of data for the DVD image torrents so far for 12.04 (makes ~35 downloads for each arch), so people do download them18:47
shadeslayerRiddell: yeah, sounds good18:47
yofelwhether they use them is another question18:48
txwikingerjussi: yes.. is it ok with you to drop the dvd?18:48
* Riddell adds -drop DVD18:48
Riddell-keep alternate image with 1GB limit18:48
shadeslayeryofel: What  usecase does the DVD serve if we inflate the main ISO to 1GB?18:48
yofelshadeslayer: not sure18:48
jussisounds fine to me - would be nice to have a full KDE though, given we aim to be a a distro that shows off KDE...18:48
afiestastxwikinger: we can modify our website to get some of them, even if they are nt accurated18:48
yofelI'm fine as long as we have one d-i image18:48
afiestasthey should give us an idea for 12.1018:48
afiestasor 13.0418:49
yofelso what Riddell proposes is fine IMO18:49
Riddellquestion: -do we want powerpc?  -do we want amd64+mac?18:49
shadeslayerI can find them easily in India, except .... no one uses them18:49
udsbotuuds-room-204: 5 minutes left in this session!18:49
jussiRiddell: powerpc I say no18:49
RiddellI would say keep with current policy of "yes if we get testers"18:49
shadeslayerI have yet to come across a Mac image that I can use18:49
Riddellshadeslayer: why can't you?18:50
shadeslayerMac images with BIOS Emulation18:50
udsbotuuds-room-204: 4 minutes left in this session!18:50
* txwikinger never had a problem installing on Mac18:50
shadeslayerthat's what I use18:50
* jussi is in the ubuntu power pc LP group and its dead as a doornail. the subset is tiny imho18:50
shadeslayerbut I can't boot it directly under EFI18:50
DarkwingUDSshadeslayer, what image do you use to install on Mac?18:50
shadeslayerDarkwingUDS: The standard image or the specialized mac image18:50
shadeslayerboth work fine18:50
shadeslayeryou can install it under normal mode18:50
rbelemshadeslayer, you use the amd64+mac image or regular amd64?18:51
shadeslayerRiddell: both work fine :)18:51
udsbotuuds-room-204: 3 minutes left in this session!18:51
shadeslayerThey have a specialized grub, grub-efi18:51
Riddellshadeslayer: "I have yet to come across a Mac image that I can use" and "both work fine" seem to be contrary18:52
shadeslayerunder BIOS mode they work fine18:52
udsbotuuds-room-204: 2 minutes left in this session!18:52
rbelemwhat macs would not work with regular amd64 images?18:52
shadeslayerthere are 2 modes, EFI and BIOS18:52
shadeslayerunder EFI you can't boot the ISO from a CD18:52
yofelis "they work fine" your == "I need both a CD and USB to install" case?18:52
shadeslayerbut if you boot it via BIOS mode, it works fine18:52
Riddellso what's your problem?18:53
shadeslayerthe problem is, there's no need for a Mac image18:53
DarkwingUDSwhat Macs do not have a BIOS mode?18:53
udsbotuuds-room-204: 1 minute left in this session!18:53
txwikingerRiddell: he uses a MAC :-)18:53
shadeslayerDarkwingUDS: hmm ... I think all newer mac's have a BIOS mode18:53
Riddellshadeslayer: so amd64+mac doesn't work for you but normal amd64 does?18:53
shadeslayerRiddell: no, it works fine, but, only under BIOS mode, there's no need for the specialized mac image18:54
udsbotuuds-room-204: This session has ended.18:54
Riddellhmm, so we should discuss that with fondations team why amd64+mac exists at all18:54
shadeslayerthe point of a mac image is that you can boot it under EFI, but seeing how that doesn't work out of the box, and you can boot the regular image under BIOS mode and install from there18:55
shadeslayerthere's no point of a specialized Mac image18:55
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-room-204 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/room-204/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-room-204.log
shadeslayeryes :)18:55
* Riddell actions -work out why amd64+mac exists if macs have a BIOS emulation mode18:56
Riddell-do we want powerpc?18:56
jussiRiddell: as I said, I dont think so.18:56
txwikingerwhat is out there that still uses powerpc?18:56
jussiits a minor usecase, and if needed people can go out an install the ubuntu image and install kde.18:57
DarkwingUDSold Macs and servers18:57
yofelother question, who can test it?18:57
txwikingerAnd is that more recent than i58618:57
DarkwingUDSI vote drop.18:57
Riddellyofel: we got a couple of testers last time, nobody I know18:57
yofel+1 for jussi18:57
* Riddell actions -drop powerpc images18:57
jussiRiddell: tm_t has one ;)18:57
Riddell-what arm images do we want?18:58
txwikingerRiddell wanted less images.. :-D18:58
shadeslayerdoesn't ScottK have one as well ?18:58
RiddellI have omap4 hardware and can test18:58
Riddellwe have omap(3) images but I don't think there's any point18:58
jussiRiddell: freescale imx5x/6, TI, at least18:58
txwikingerI have some mx5 board or something like that18:58
shadeslayerI have a tegra 3 device18:58
jussisorry, TI omap418:58
jussioh, tegra also18:58
jussiarm is so damn fragmented :/18:59
DarkwingUDSomap4 will run on tegra2/3.18:59
shadeslayerjust not sure if I want to experiment with my only phone now :P18:59
jussiI have a imx53 board18:59
shadeslayerDarkwingUDS: are you sure?18:59
DarkwingUDSaccording to rbelem19:00
* Riddell actions -drop omap(3) image unless someone finds a use19:00
shadeslayerheh :P19:00
jussiRiddell: +119:00
Riddell-what images does kubuntu active want19:00
shadeslayeryou probably know more about that :)19:00
shadeslayerDarkwingUDS: In order to work with Tegra 2/3 you need root OR ability to use nvflash19:02
shadeslayerworking with root is dangerous though19:02
* Riddell actions -make a omap4 image for kubuntu-active19:02
shadeslayerI used to dd blobs to flash Kubuntu19:02
RiddellI don't know anything about tegra19:02
DarkwingUDSyes. you do. so, build active on omap4 and those of us who play with tegra can use19:02
shadeslayerbefore something went wrong and I lost recovery AND root19:03
Riddellubuntu has "Toshiba AC100 / Dynabook AZ (Hard-Float) preinstalled desktop filesystem archive"19:03
Riddellthis has something about tegra in its description19:03
jussithe ac100 is a tegra219:03
shadeslayerif you want to support it, and have people who can test19:03
rbelemRiddell, for arm i think that it would be nice to have preinstalled images only19:03
Riddellif someone has the hardware to test it we can look at making AC100/tegra images19:04
shadeslayerDarkwingUDS: uhm .. just be careful about that19:04
shadeslayerT2 was really fiddly19:04
shadeslayerDarkwingUDS: fwiw the GPU is pretty crap on the T3 as well19:05
jussiarent there a bunch of those devices being used in canonical arm team?19:05
DarkwingUDSshadeslayer ahhh... we need to talk then.19:05
jussiI remember ogra had one19:05
shadeslayerDarkwingUDS: sure :)19:05
shadeslayerlilstevie has a Transformer Prine19:05
shadeslayerbecause ... it's a netbook ? :D19:06
shadeslayer( for the AC100 )19:06
Riddellhow about this action "-aim to create AC100/tegra images for desktop/active if testers" ?19:06
DarkwingUDSshadeslayer, I'm in market for a new tablet. I have the Asus slider atm but, sbk is still horrid locked.19:06
shadeslayerRiddell: make that netbook19:06
jussiRiddell: sounds good19:06
Riddellshadeslayer: netbook went away about 2 years ago19:06
shadeslayerDarkwingUDS: hah, if you can root it and take some risks, I can help you flash ubuntu on it19:06
jussiDarkwingUDS: see pm.19:06
shadeslayerunified images :)19:06
* txwikinger still uses netbook19:07
shadeslayerdesktop then19:07
DarkwingUDSI will when I'm not on my phone.19:07
Riddellany other image issues to discuss?19:07
txwikingerRiddell: I use netbook for taking with me.. and laptop for working at home19:07
shadeslayerRiddell: if we decide to keep Mac images, we might want to seed pommed for them19:08
Riddelltxwikinger: I hope that's plasma-netbook from the kubuntu desktop image you're using!19:08
Riddellshadeslayer: what's that?19:08
shadeslayerRiddell: hardware event for Mac's19:08
txwikingerRiddell: yes19:08
Riddellshadeslayer: and you just install it and it starts working?19:08
shadeslayerunless 12.10 grows support for all hardware support keys in the Mac :P19:09
shadeslayerRiddell: yes19:09
shadeslayerthat and macfanctld19:09
Riddellshadeslayer: does it cause problems on PCs?19:09
shadeslayerwithout macfanctld, the fans don't spin up19:09
shadeslayerRiddell: never tried it on PC's19:09
Riddellhow about this? "-add pommed and macfanctld to seeds if it they do not cause problems for PC users"19:10
shadeslayeryou can't add macfanctld19:10
shadeslayerit's not in the archives19:10
Riddelldo you know why not?19:10
shadeslayerI could talk  to upstream19:10
Riddellso "-add pommed to seeds if it they do not cause problems for PC users19:10
Riddell-investigate macfanctld"19:10
Riddellactioned to you :)19:10
shadeslayerfine :)19:11
shadeslayeragain, this happens only in BIOS mode, in EFI mode, you don't need macfan .. hey!19:11
shadeslayerhaha :D19:11
shadeslayerI'll take care of it :P19:12
shadeslayerdo we have a default apps session?19:12
shadeslayerrbelem: I'm jealous19:13
shadeslayeryou have a GN AND a N919:13
rbelemshadeslayer, :-D \o/19:15
shadeslayeris that it?19:15
* shadeslayer goes back to making video calls work on tp19:16

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