[00:10] Kubuntu Quantal Active session going on here? [00:10] txwikinger: that’s what I ask myself too [00:13] We should use google hangout :-) [00:22] Riddell: active meeting going on here? [00:24] bulldog98: yo [00:24] vnc to ec2-23-22-97-169.compute-1.amazonaws.com 5902 [00:25] krdc [00:27] Riddell: username? [00:27] foobar is the pass [00:27] ec2-23-22-97-169.compute-1.amazonaws.com:5902 [00:28] rbelem: do we really want mallit board, if plasma active already has a board [00:33] what? [00:34] bulldog98, are you listening the stream? [00:34] txwikinger: replace one l with i [00:34] rbelem: yes [00:34] bulldog98, we were talking about it [00:34] bulldog98, basically what we said was [00:35] * bulldog98 is a bit sleepy, cause it’s around 3 a clock at morning here [00:35] maliit is more powerful [00:35] ouch [00:36] bulldog98, maliit have error corrections, predictions, more language support [00:36] oh ok sound’s cool [00:36] bulldog98, different keyboard type support [00:36] ok [00:36] that's why we think that we should go for maliit [00:37] rbelem: are you talking about packages right now? cause I don’t know if the stream is right [00:39] bulldog98: ? [00:40] hm me is to stupid to see that he was listening the wrong audio [00:40] ah.. no my what was the answer to them asking if someone listens [00:41] yep the ppa is cool [00:43] I’m not fast too [00:45] nice flowers [00:47] rbelem: they have patches for the release at the same place as the tarball [00:51] also we want to look for what breaks the browser and other stuff with touchscreen (on my ExoPC) and fix it [00:51] afiestas http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Development [00:52] +1 [00:53] in Berlin I got mine [00:54] uds-room-204: 5 minutes left in this session! [00:55] uds-room-204: 4 minutes left in this session! [00:56] uds-room-204: 3 minutes left in this session! [00:57] uds-room-204: 2 minutes left in this session! [00:58] uds-room-204: 1 minute left in this session! [00:58] Riddell: that version you show in the amazon cloud is old, newer hasn’t window decos [00:59] uds-room-204: This session has ended. [00:59] rbelem: calligra-mobile is in and works fine === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-room-204 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/room-204/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-room-204.log [01:07] Do we get a tablet for free? [01:07] txwikinger, i hope so [01:07] cool.. count me in then [01:08] Canada [01:10] txwikinger: maybe, if you promise to do lots of testing [01:10] Riddell: Sure.. I am good in breaking things [01:15] Was that the tablet falling down? === tsimpson_ is now known as tsimpson === PreciseOne is now known as IdleOne === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-room-204 to: Track: Desktop | Kubuntu Quantal Images | Url: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20596/kubuntu-q-images/ | Audio: http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/room-204.ogg.m3u [18:01] I think I do not get any audio here [18:01] hmm ... nope [18:01] nothing here as well [18:01] or maybe it's deathly silent :P [18:02] I think it is broken [18:02] :( [18:03] http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20596/kubuntu-q-images/ === yofel_ is now known as yofel [18:06] Can anybody fix the sound? [18:09] ^ [18:12] txwikinger: nobody is here yet [18:12] except a couple of people from the last session in here [18:13] Riddell: at least for me the sound is completely muted [18:14] can you see http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20596/kubuntu-q-images/ ? [18:14] ah, ok, now there's some sound [18:15] the pad works fine [18:16] well nobody is here [18:16] I wonder where darkwing is [18:16] so IRC session! [18:16] anyone up for discussing the questions on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20596/kubuntu-q-images/ ? [18:17] * Riddell nudges yofel, shadeslayer, txwikinger [18:17] yo [18:17] yup [18:17] hello [18:17] do we want to get rid of cd image? [18:17] oh.. I can hear :-) [18:17] and replace them with 1GB USB images [18:17] cool [18:18] downside: lots of moans [18:18] I think we want, that would mean we could drop all the -extra packages [18:18] upside: breathing space! [18:18] All computers can use usb .. many cannot use CDs [18:18] yofel: like kde-workspace-data-extras and kdegames-card-data-extra ? [18:18] exactly [18:19] And you can always install alternative and then kubuntu-desktop [18:19] One big downside is Mac's can't boot USB images [18:19] hello all [18:20] so they'll need to burn a DVD [18:20] if you really need a CD there's the mini.iso - and I don't think worrying about the networkless PC's that can't use USB's or DVD's is worth the trouble [18:20] shadeslayer: see above... alternative CD [18:20] http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20596/kubuntu-q-images/ [18:20] discussing do we want to get rid of cd image? [18:20] txwikinger: what if I'm a new user and want to try it out :) [18:20] *nod* [18:21] Riddell: thanks. seems stream isnt working for me. [18:21] Apple's EFI doesn't support booting OS's apart from OS X [18:21] from the USB [18:21] rbelem: send it to shadeslayer [18:21] jussi: we're doing an irc session [18:21] send what to me? [18:21] If someone buys an Apple , its there own fault ;-) [18:21] a link [18:21] Riddell: oh, so no stream then :/ [18:22] txwikinger: so we just ditch those users ? :D [18:22] jussi: dunno but more people in irc than in this room (me and rbelem here) [18:22] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/How%20to%20install%20Ubuntu%20on%20MacBook%20using%20USB%20Stick [18:22] shadeslayer: No.. there is an easy way [18:22] txwikinger: plus, EFI will be standard in the future [18:22] Alternative CD and install kubuntu-desktop [18:22] some future Windows will mandate EFI [18:22] Will try out Unetbootin and report results [18:23] You just said EFI only allows to boot OS X [18:23] bookmarked [18:23] also.. can you get kubuntu boot on EFI? [18:23] How important are CD mages to entities like schools and businesses? [18:23] txwikinger: yes, but I've not tried Unetbootin [18:23] actions: -change ubuntu-cdimage to 1GB images [18:23] - but find solution to mac [18:23] txwikinger: not *really* [18:23] ok? [18:23] txwikinger: what you do is, install in BIOS Emulation mode [18:23] Riddell: wait, please answer my question first [18:23] and then generate a EFI Grub binary [18:23] -track down and update install docs everywhere [18:23] jussi: what's that? [18:23] which gets chainloaded by EFI [18:24] or rather refit [18:24] [21:23:19] How important are CD mages to entities like schools and businesses? [18:24] another downside is, not everyone has a fast connection ( hint : like me :P ) [18:24] jussi: large managed rollouts should be able to use USB sticks as well as anyone [18:24] shadeslayer: We do not have any shipIt CDs anymore anyway [18:25] shadeslayer: that's why we're talking about 1G, that's not too much [18:25] And you can get supercheap 1GB USB sticks now [18:25] limit btw. we don't need to fill it up [18:25] ah ok [18:25] use as needed [18:25] that sounds okay, but just don't get carried away :P [18:25] IBM sends docu now on usb sticks instead of CDs or Paper [18:25] Im just asking to consider our "customer" a bit before we go just making things "easier" for our selves [18:25] yeah, point is valid [18:26] Enforcing CD limits kept us on our toes [18:26] what do we want to put into the CD that we don't have right now? [18:26] jussi: why would you think managed rollouts need CDs? [18:26] because if we replace kopete with ktp, we can gain more space [18:27] jussi: Windows needs DVD's too for any installation image, so I don't think allowing CD's is really that needed [18:27] I mean here in finland it makes sense, but how is it also in a 3rd world country? [18:27] jussi: in a 3rd world country, 300 MB's is about 45 minutes more [18:27] to download a image [18:27] Well. the question is.. how many CDs will be burned if there is no shipIt anymore for it [18:28] jussi: rbelem is explaining that it's better to use larger images than smaller for brazil schools etc [18:28] jussi: if you *really* can't use an USB drive or DVD there's the mini.iso. That'll need bandwidth during the install though [18:28] txwikinger: exactly, lets do some reasearch on that before we make a decision [18:28] because you need to get it through the post then can't easily download addons [18:28] bbiab [18:28] need to run a errand [18:28] jussi: ok.. I am just making arguments for one side.. I can live with either option [18:29] Im not trying to be obtuse, but trying to make sure we have done our reasearch before we go makingrash decisions [18:29] jussi: talk to rbelem :) [18:29] he's speaking here but I guess you can't hear [18:29] how much work is it to do both> [18:29] txwikinger: lots [18:29] additional work? [18:29] I want to reduce our images not increase them [18:30] lol [18:30] shall we move on? [18:30] yes [18:30] ok [18:30] -what to do with dvd image? [18:30] sure [18:30] I don't know what ubuntu desktop has done with it or plans to do with it [18:31] but their dvd image for last cycle was much stripped down [18:31] I think I never used dvd iso [18:31] i would go for drop cd image [18:31] so I'm thinking we should get rid of it if we increase to 1GB images [18:31] our 1gb will become the dvd image... right? [18:31] yeah [18:32] only thing I find them useful for is that they ship both ubiquity and d-i [18:32] and get rid of the 4GB image which takes a lot of resources [18:33] * yofel wonders how many people would need a pre-downloaded d-i install [18:33] yofel, to upgrade an existing installation [18:33] rbelem: that works? [18:33] * yofel never really tried that option [18:33] yofel, yup [18:34] so no love for dvd? [18:34] Riddell: can we look at the whole picture for a sec, and find out, right now, which selection of images you think we need and why? How does the image ecosystem work? [18:34] how much more space is needed on the DVD due to it shipping d-i as well? [18:35] yofel: doubles the image size I guess [18:35] hm [18:35] hah [18:35] keep it and dump alternate? [18:35] otherwise I see no need for it [18:35] jussi: I don't know what we need it's why I'm asking one a time which ones we need [18:35] (even if they seem somewhat popular) [18:36] maybe this is tied to the next question -do we want alternate? [18:36] * txwikinger only installs a computer once.. after that always upgrades [18:36] Riddell: can we not just ship one DVD image which has all the alternatives on it? [18:36] we *could* put all of KDE on the DVD, but I don't think that's worth the additional trouble [18:37] jussi: that question doesn't make much sense [18:37] jussi: we can't have an image with multiple arches and installers on it [18:37] if we drop alternet we should keep at least jigdo [18:37] having an image with multiple installers I think is of low value [18:37] *alternate [18:38] Riddell: my apologies, but we can have a DVD with the active installer, the alternate and live installer's on it, right? [18:38] jussi: hmm, maybe, but why? [18:39] Riddell: I think only the DVD offers to try Kubuntu out, and later install with full disk encryption using d-i [18:39] the point here is to make it as easy as possible for someone to install. if you do that, you only need to select arch, then on install you select which thing you want. [18:39] totally edge case, but it's there [18:39] the downside to the large dvd image currently is nobody mirrors it and it takes up massive bandwidth and it's slow and hard to test [18:40] jussi, active needs to be alone [18:40] :-) [18:40] rbelem: ok [18:40] hey guys! [18:40] current image size is ~3.3G, if we make it desktop image + alternate it would be ~2G. [18:40] still too large? [18:40] hey DarkwingUDS [18:41] lets look at "-do we want alternate?" [18:42] I think possibilities are yes alternate on a combined DVD image [18:42] yes alternate but only through netboot (easiest) [18:42] Hmm... [18:42] would be possible to do something like server.. you have one image and can select cloud, lamp, minimlal-server through tasksels [18:42] or yes same thing of separate alternate images [18:42] my only concern is RAID, encryption and LVM. if those are addressed somewhere then I have no issues dumping the alt. [18:42] hi afiestas [18:42] http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20596/kubuntu-q-images/ [18:42] txwikinger: the mini.iso does that, but you need to download everything at install time [18:42] discussing alternate [18:43] My only concern is that there should be atleast one ISO that is bootable on Mac's [18:43] so is netboot mini.iso acceptable to people who need alternate images or not? [18:43] else you're going to have bad time ;) [18:43] sorry for the delay, will be in the room asap (was talking about freedesktop/standard stuff) :/ [18:43] Riddell: I guess .... unless you have a shitty connection :P [18:43] what are you shadeslayer Mac fanboy or kde fanboy? [18:44] Riddell: as rbelem said, some people use alternate images for upgrades, so I would keep alternate XOR DVD [18:44] txwikinger: I haz MBP :) [18:44] and strip DVD down [18:44] do we have any stadistics about iso? [18:45] I mean, do we know how many times our different isos are downloaded? [18:45] yofel: how strip it down? [18:45] afiestas: No.. there are too many mirrors [18:45] well, make it just desktop + alternate, instead of adding a bunch of extra stuff to it [18:45] ^ [18:46] Ship 1 GB image with a certain subset of languages and alternate image that can be used by power users [18:46] use apt-cache [18:46] drop DVD, I'm not sure anyone uses DVD's [18:46] rbelem is persuading me that netboot isn't good enough for some alternate users [18:47] Plus, no testers :D [18:47] action: -drop DVD [18:47] yussi? [18:47] can we change the alternate to have a 1GB size limit same as desktop image [18:47] ? [18:47] txwikinger: are you addressing me? [18:47] raises new question, what subset of languages? [18:47] shadeslayer: I seeded 230GB of data for the DVD image torrents so far for 12.04 (makes ~35 downloads for each arch), so people do download them [18:47] Riddell: yeah, sounds good [18:48] whether they use them is another question [18:48] jussi: yes.. is it ok with you to drop the dvd? [18:48] * Riddell adds -drop DVD [18:48] -keep alternate image with 1GB limit [18:48] yofel: What usecase does the DVD serve if we inflate the main ISO to 1GB? [18:48] shadeslayer: not sure [18:48] sounds fine to me - would be nice to have a full KDE though, given we aim to be a a distro that shows off KDE... [18:48] txwikinger: we can modify our website to get some of them, even if they are nt accurated [18:48] I'm fine as long as we have one d-i image [18:48] they should give us an idea for 12.10 [18:49] or 13.04 [18:49] so what Riddell proposes is fine IMO [18:49] question: -do we want powerpc? -do we want amd64+mac? [18:49] I can find them easily in India, except .... no one uses them [18:49] uds-room-204: 5 minutes left in this session! [18:49] Riddell: powerpc I say no [18:49] I would say keep with current policy of "yes if we get testers" [18:49] I have yet to come across a Mac image that I can use [18:49] yes [18:50] shadeslayer: why can't you? [18:50] Mac images with BIOS Emulation [18:50] uds-room-204: 4 minutes left in this session! [18:50] * txwikinger never had a problem installing on Mac [18:50] that's what I use [18:50] * jussi is in the ubuntu power pc LP group and its dead as a doornail. the subset is tiny imho [18:50] but I can't boot it directly under EFI [18:50] shadeslayer, what image do you use to install on Mac? [18:50] DarkwingUDS: The standard image or the specialized mac image [18:50] both work fine [18:50] you can install it under normal mode [18:50] erm [18:51] s/normal/BIOS/ [18:51] shadeslayer, you use the amd64+mac image or regular amd64? [18:51] Riddell: both work fine :) [18:51] uds-room-204: 3 minutes left in this session! [18:51] They have a specialized grub, grub-efi [18:52] shadeslayer: "I have yet to come across a Mac image that I can use" and "both work fine" seem to be contrary [18:52] under BIOS mode they work fine [18:52] uds-room-204: 2 minutes left in this session! [18:52] what macs would not work with regular amd64 images? [18:52] there are 2 modes, EFI and BIOS [18:52] under EFI you can't boot the ISO from a CD [18:52] is "they work fine" your == "I need both a CD and USB to install" case? [18:52] but if you boot it via BIOS mode, it works fine [18:53] so what's your problem? [18:53] the problem is, there's no need for a Mac image [18:53] what Macs do not have a BIOS mode? [18:53] :D [18:53] uds-room-204: 1 minute left in this session! [18:53] Riddell: he uses a MAC :-) [18:53] +1 [18:53] DarkwingUDS: hmm ... I think all newer mac's have a BIOS mode [18:53] shadeslayer: so amd64+mac doesn't work for you but normal amd64 does? [18:54] Riddell: no, it works fine, but, only under BIOS mode, there's no need for the specialized mac image [18:54] uds-room-204: This session has ended. [18:54] hmm, so we should discuss that with fondations team why amd64+mac exists at all [18:55] the point of a mac image is that you can boot it under EFI, but seeing how that doesn't work out of the box, and you can boot the regular image under BIOS mode and install from there [18:55] there's no point of a specialized Mac image === ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-uds-room-204 to: Currently no events are active in this room - http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/room-204/ - http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/%23ubuntu-uds-room-204.log [18:55] yes :) [18:55] exactly [18:56] * Riddell actions -work out why amd64+mac exists if macs have a BIOS emulation mode [18:56] -do we want powerpc? [18:56] Riddell: as I said, I dont think so. [18:56] what is out there that still uses powerpc? [18:57] its a minor usecase, and if needed people can go out an install the ubuntu image and install kde. [18:57] old Macs and servers [18:57] other question, who can test it? [18:57] And is that more recent than i586 [18:57] I vote drop. [18:57] +1 [18:57] +1 [18:57] yofel: we got a couple of testers last time, nobody I know [18:57] +1 [18:57] +1 [18:57] +1 for jussi [18:57] * Riddell actions -drop powerpc images [18:57] Riddell: tm_t has one ;) [18:58] -what arm images do we want? [18:58] Riddell wanted less images.. :-D [18:58] doesn't ScottK have one as well ? [18:58] I have omap4 hardware and can test [18:58] Arrrrr [18:58] arrrrrrrm [18:58] :-) [18:58] we have omap(3) images but I don't think there's any point [18:58] Riddell: freescale imx5x/6, TI, at least [18:58] I have some mx5 board or something like that [18:58] I have a tegra 3 device [18:58] sorry, TI omap4 [18:58] oh, tegra also [18:59] arm is so damn fragmented :/ [18:59] omap4 will run on tegra2/3. [18:59] just not sure if I want to experiment with my only phone now :P [18:59] I have a imx53 board [18:59] DarkwingUDS: are you sure? [19:00] according to rbelem [19:00] * Riddell actions -drop omap(3) image unless someone finds a use [19:00] +1 [19:00] heh :P [19:00] Riddell: +1 [19:00] -what images does kubuntu active want [19:00] you probably know more about that :) [19:02] DarkwingUDS: In order to work with Tegra 2/3 you need root OR ability to use nvflash [19:02] working with root is dangerous though [19:02] * Riddell actions -make a omap4 image for kubuntu-active [19:02] I used to dd blobs to flash Kubuntu [19:02] I don't know anything about tegra [19:02] yes. you do. so, build active on omap4 and those of us who play with tegra can use [19:03] before something went wrong and I lost recovery AND root [19:03] ubuntu has "Toshiba AC100 / Dynabook AZ (Hard-Float) preinstalled desktop filesystem archive" [19:03] yes [19:03] this has something about tegra in its description [19:03] the ac100 is a tegra2 [19:03] if you want to support it, and have people who can test [19:03] Riddell, for arm i think that it would be nice to have preinstalled images only [19:04] if someone has the hardware to test it we can look at making AC100/tegra images [19:04] DarkwingUDS: uhm .. just be careful about that [19:04] T2 was really fiddly [19:05] DarkwingUDS: fwiw the GPU is pretty crap on the T3 as well [19:05] arent there a bunch of those devices being used in canonical arm team? [19:05] shadeslayer ahhh... we need to talk then. [19:05] I remember ogra had one [19:05] DarkwingUDS: sure :) [19:05] lilstevie has a Transformer Prine [19:05] *Prime [19:05] Netbook [19:06] because ... it's a netbook ? :D [19:06] ( for the AC100 ) [19:06] how about this action "-aim to create AC100/tegra images for desktop/active if testers" ? [19:06] shadeslayer, I'm in market for a new tablet. I have the Asus slider atm but, sbk is still horrid locked. [19:06] Riddell: make that netbook [19:06] Riddell: sounds good [19:06] shadeslayer: netbook went away about 2 years ago [19:06] DarkwingUDS: hah, if you can root it and take some risks, I can help you flash ubuntu on it [19:06] right [19:06] DarkwingUDS: see pm. [19:06] >.> [19:06] unified images :) [19:07] * txwikinger still uses netbook [19:07] desktop then [19:07] I will when I'm not on my phone. [19:07] any other image issues to discuss? [19:07] :D [19:07] Riddell: I use netbook for taking with me.. and laptop for working at home [19:08] Riddell: if we decide to keep Mac images, we might want to seed pommed for them [19:08] txwikinger: I hope that's plasma-netbook from the kubuntu desktop image you're using! [19:08] shadeslayer: what's that? [19:08] Riddell: hardware event for Mac's [19:08] Riddell: yes [19:08] shadeslayer: and you just install it and it starts working? [19:09] unless 12.10 grows support for all hardware support keys in the Mac :P [19:09] Riddell: yes [19:09] that and macfanctld [19:09] shadeslayer: does it cause problems on PCs? [19:09] without macfanctld, the fans don't spin up [19:09] Riddell: never tried it on PC's [19:10] how about this? "-add pommed and macfanctld to seeds if it they do not cause problems for PC users" [19:10]