[00:06] <Azelphur> this is becoming frustrating, setting up a SFTP only account seems to be difficult :(
[07:00] <popey> $morning
[07:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
[07:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> how's sunny and warm california
[07:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> ?
[07:00] <popey> sunny and warm
[07:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> warm(ish) and damp here :-(
[07:01] <popey> boooo
[07:05] <DJones> Morning all
[07:45] <mattt> morning morning
[07:48] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:58] <MooDoo> yay i've got a weekend pass out to OGGCAMP :)
[07:59] <s-fox> Good morning =)
[08:00] <MooDoo> morning s-fox
[08:00] <s-fox> Hello MooDoo , how are you doing ?
[08:02] <diplo> Morning all
[08:02] <MooDoo> s-fox: got my pass out to oggcamp so i'm a happy bunny, just hope i'm not working that weekend lol
[08:03] <s-fox> MooDoo,  woot :-)
[08:03] <s-fox> Hi diplo
[08:04] <MooDoo> morning diplo
[08:05] <diplo> Anyone heard of Zentyal ?
[08:05] <diplo> zentyal.org ?
[08:05] <MooDoo> can't say i have, looks interesting though
[08:06] <diplo> And if so, the community project seems to be all GPL'd, does anyone who understands this more than me know that If I rebranded the web interface with my companies logos etc that I would be in any violations ?
[08:06] <diplo> My understanding of licensing is awful at it's best, with windows licensing I used to get someone in it used to confuse me so much :D
[08:07] <diplo> Basically the boss wants us to replace a revenue stream but doesnt want our customers to know what projects we use for the software
[08:08] <MooDoo> diplo: probably best to drop them a quick email, see what they thing
[08:08] <MooDoo> think
[08:09] <diplo> Yeah, jumped on irc channel but is rather empty :( so will try that aswell, want to make sure it does everything we want first
[08:09] <MooDoo> :)
[08:09] <diplo> Use SME Server at the mo, and it sucks.. well I don't like it which is good enough for me
[08:09] <s-fox> I would encourage an email, but also perhaps ring them?
[08:11] <diplo> Looks like they are spanish based so email is a good start for me, my spanish goes to the extent of ordering some beer :)
[08:11] <MooDoo> s-fox: got enough testimonials yet?
[08:12] <s-fox> MooDoo,  I would welcome any support from different areas of the community :)
[08:12] <MooDoo> :)
[08:21] <diplo> Cheers guys, found some posts as well about it from the CEO of Zentyal on their forums
[08:21] <diplo> Perfectly fine to as it's GPL, but he thinks it's unethical and that you should become a partner
[08:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo we use Zentyal
[08:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Works well.
[08:21] <diplo> oooh
[08:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've had lunch with the CEO too ;-)
[08:22] <diplo> I've been debating it fro  months, now been asked by the MD to officially look at it
[08:22] <diplo> You guys partners TheOpenSourcerer ?
[08:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> The next one (3) should really kick arse. Full AD replacement ussing Samba 4
[08:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> No.
[08:23] <diplo> Just downloading beta version right now :)
[08:23] <diplo> Also VM/2.2
[08:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Our email system has been running happily on 2.1 for a couple of years now.
[08:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> No issues to report - it just works.
[08:24] <diplo> Great, thanks for the input. First person that i sort of know that has used it so makes me feel more confident
[08:25] <oimon> TheOpenSourcerer, what were you doing up @ 4am?
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> huh?
[08:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> when?
[08:26] <oimon> ah, my irc time stamps have gone wrong
[08:26] <oimon> says that it is 5:26 now.
[08:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[08:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> says 09:26 here
[08:26] <oimon> what was popey doing up at 8am UK time?
[08:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Need to get on the phone. New OpenERP prospect awaits! :-D
[08:27]  * oimon notices that xchat is very proactive at updating timestamps if you change time zone
[08:28] <oimon> clinton cards is in trouble. tbh i wonder how they made money, since i could never find a decent card in there
[08:29] <oimon> devops_borat has wisdom today: You know open source product is impossible of use when creator is start consultancy around it.
[08:41] <DJones> oimon: He was probably going to bed after partying the night away
[08:41] <oimon> i don't think i can make it past 11pm nowadays
[08:41] <oimon> 10.30 would be a push
[08:43] <DJones> I know that feeling
[08:43] <s-fox> Anyone else think that the new EU directive is confusing as hell and that some clarity should be added for Google Analytics users?
[08:43] <s-fox> ^ cookie directive
[08:44] <s-fox> lol
[08:44] <MooDoo> isn't it, "if you cause a user to download a cookied to their machine, they need to agree to it first" ?
[08:45] <s-fox> well, that is my rough take on it but i am not certain
[08:46] <MooDoo> yeah i think that's pretty much it, there are exceptions for shopping carts etx
[08:48] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:49] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon
[08:50] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[08:51] <shauno> is there an exception for a cookie remembering their cookie preference?
[09:25] <hoover> morning all
[09:25] <hoover> can somebody help me configuring the wall of desktops in ubuntu 2d?
[09:25] <hoover> I'm using 2d when connecting to my work desktop via nomachine
[09:26] <hoover> usually I have six desktops without previews / slide aligned horiz.
[09:26] <hoover> using 2d, it turns into 2 rows of 3 desktops each
[09:26] <hoover> Is it possible to change that somehow?
[09:51] <oimon> has anyone read and understood what changes paypal are applying to the user agreement?
[09:53] <awilkins> Not read it yet
[09:54] <hoover> haven't read it yet either
[09:54] <diplo> Seen it, skimmed it and forgot about it.
[09:54] <diplo> I'll wait for G+/Twitter from everyone else :)
[10:02] <oimon> i notice that cross border fees are much higher if you pay on ccard
[10:11] <davmor2> morning all
[10:16] <oimon> hello
[10:17] <oimon> v quiet again today
[10:17] <hoover> morning davmor2
[10:17] <hoover> can somebody help me with ubuntu 2d via nomachine?
[10:17] <davmor2> I can't no
[10:18] <oimon> i use nomachine but with a SL server
[10:27] <MooDoo> hello davmor2 how are you this fine day
[10:27] <davmor2> MooDoo: half asleep I fear
[10:28] <MooDoo> davmor2: coffee?
[10:29] <davmor2> MooDoo: beside me cooling down as we type
[10:29] <MooDoo> davmor2: good man!
[10:29] <MooDoo> davmor2: got my passout to oggcamp stamped :)
[10:30] <davmor2> MooDoo: What did you have to promise to get that dude :D
[10:30] <MooDoo> davmor2: she hasn't decided yet lol
[10:34] <oimon> now that they are making underwear bombs..do we have to take those off @ security too?
[10:35] <davmor2> MooDoo: Oh that's never a good thing now it gets held over your head like the sword of damaclees or however it's spelt
[10:38] <awilkins> Damocles. Was also a cool game from the 8-bit era
[10:38] <awilkins> Oh, ok, 16-bit era
[10:39] <MooDoo> davmor2: it was the only way she'd let me go on a jolly :)
[10:39] <hoover> lol
[10:39] <hoover> compulsory string tanga garments for all air passengers
[10:39] <hoover> or make'em fly nekkit, should be fun
[10:40] <oimon> i don't even own a passport anymore
[10:40] <oimon> prefer to be treated like a human being when i travel
[10:44]  * awilkins MUST NOT DOWNLOAD the modern port of Mercenary, Damocles, and the third game he didn't know about
[10:49] <oimon> awilkins, where mustn't you download them from?
[10:49] <awilkins> http://mercenarysite.free.fr/mddclone.htm <- here
[10:49] <oimon> reminds me of ixion for the archimedes
[10:50] <awilkins> The puzzles were involved
[10:50] <awilkins> And you  could fly around and blow up planets
[10:50] <oimon> have you played machinarium? thats a sweet puzzle game
[10:50] <awilkins> I played a demo
[10:50] <awilkins> I think I may even have it in a Humble bundle somewhere
[10:50] <oimon> it was part of indie bundle
[10:51] <awilkins> I have INdeie 2
[10:51] <awilkins> And Frozen Synapse
[10:51] <awilkins> Ah, there is is
[10:52] <awilkins> I never got Braid working properly
[10:52] <oimon> really?
[10:52] <oimon> works fine for me
[10:52] <awilkins> Maybe it was a peculiarity of the setup
[10:52] <oimon> just realised i bought some cool games
[10:52] <awilkins> 64-bit Linux
[10:52] <oimon> and yet it mvoes.
[10:52] <oimon> super meat boy...
[10:53] <awilkins> I've not played a lot of these
[10:53] <awilkins> Not completed most of the ones I have played
[10:53] <awilkins> Osmos is nice to relax with
[10:53] <oimon> never even knew i had gratuitous space battles
[10:53] <awilkins> I was tempted by that
[10:54] <davmor2> awilkins: works here on 64bit and on intel gfx too
[10:54] <awilkins> I got very frustrated with Revenge of the Titans
[10:54] <oimon> they must have sneakily added a load more after i purchased
[10:54] <oimon> what's this nightsky thing?
[10:55] <awilkins> Ooh, Trine
[10:56]  * awilkins beats his hand with a steel ruler until he gets back to configuring Redmine
[10:56]  * oimon uses redmine
[10:56] <awilkins> Do you use the Mylyn plugin?
[10:56] <awilkins> It seems to work, huzzah
[10:56] <oimon> no, what's that?
[10:57] <awilkins> Mylyn is this integrated task tracker for Eclipse
[10:57] <awilkins> It does freakishly useful stuff like remembering all the source files you had open when you last touched that task
[10:57] <oimon> i use redmine for helpdesk issues :P
[10:57] <awilkins> So you push it's purple button and *zap* everything is back where you left it
[10:58] <awilkins> We have HPOV. We hates it *spit*
[10:58] <oimon> hmm i had a folder in dropbox which has been deleted.
[10:59] <oimon> ah..was using my other dropbox acct ..phew
[11:01] <oimon> need to face facts that i don't have enough time to play games
[11:02] <oimon> no more buying bundles for me
[11:04] <oimon> shank looks like double dragon on steroids
[11:06]  * awilkins just had a scary moment when he thought he'd shanked a production server
[11:06] <awilkins> *phew
[11:12] <hoover> I've bought two bundles so far and only tried "crayon physics deluxe" a few weeks ago ;-D
[11:15] <awilkins> slas
[11:16] <oimon> hoover, i tried that, seemed fun.
[11:16] <oimon> i don't have staying power anymore
[11:16] <hoover> oimon: yep, the kids love it
[11:16] <oimon> i really should carry on with world of goo
[11:16] <hoover> neither have I, a bit of simracing and Falcon BMS here and there, the occasional nethack session, but that's it
[11:17] <oimon> cogs looks fun too
[11:20] <yothsoggoth> I bought the bundle with Frozen Synapse, that's a pretty awesome game
[11:20] <hoover> Trine also looks great, but my HW can't handle it
[11:20] <oimon> my graphics were not powerful enough for those...
[11:20] <hoover> my linux desktop has become dog-slow since the latest LMDE update
[11:20]  * hoover ponders installing precise on it again
[11:23] <oimon> my battery life increased by 50% from 11.10->12.04
[11:24] <oimon> well, the battery indicator suggests a 50% longer life..
[11:28] <hoover> yep it runs great on my netbook even through upgrading
[11:28] <hoover> I had massive stability problems with anything beyond 10.04 on my desktop though
[11:29] <hoover> I think I'll give the live usb stick a try again soon
[11:29] <hoover> I'm not happy with LMDE anymore
[11:29] <MooDoo> hmmm i need to get rid of windows 7 and put precise on it
[11:32] <hoover> win7 is a great game launcher ;-)
[11:36] <zleap> hoover,  LMDE, i read something about that somewhere
[11:36] <zleap> in relation to lubuntu
[11:37] <oimon> heh samorost 2 is cute
[12:36] <hoover> cheers all
[12:40] <MooDoo> :)
[13:19] <moviebun> Any users of movie editing software within Ubuntu on here at the moment?
[13:21]  * MartijnVdS points in the general direction of popey 
[13:22] <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9K18CGEeiI
[13:22] <moviebun> Ah - thanks. I think he's off at UDS at the moment.
[13:25] <moviebun> Movie editing was the main thing that attracted me to Ubuntu - hopefully there will be a few others with similar backgrounds and interests popping up in due course.
[13:25] <moviebun> ... and if not, I'll try again later! :-)
[13:27] <DJones> moviebun: Might be worth asking in #ubuntu as well, bigger channel so maybe more chance of a response, if not, as you say, try again later
[13:27] <BigRedS> What's the currently fashionable way to extract movie files from DVDs?
[13:28] <MooDoo> BigRedS: install wine, and use dvdshrink is the way i do it
[13:28] <moviebun> Thanks DJones - this is my first foray into ubuntu-uk though have been listining to the podcast for a good while.
[13:28] <DJones> BigRedS: Last time I did any, I used https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DVD%3A%3ARip
[13:28] <awilkins> BigRedS, Use Handbrake
[13:29] <awilkins> https://launchpad.net/~handbrake-ubuntu/+archive/ppa
[13:30] <BigRedS> yeah, I checked DVD::Rip but saw the instructions date from 7.04...
[13:30] <BigRedS> I'll try handbrake
[13:30] <BigRedS> ta!
[13:30] <oimon> BigRedS, raw extraction or re-encoding?
[13:30] <BigRedS> I just want a video file I can watch on my laptop with now DVD drive
[13:30] <oimon> beware it takes a while and the laptop will try to cook your lap
[13:31] <BigRedS> I'll be ripping it on my PC here
[13:31] <BigRedS> and I've got twice the length of the film to do it in
[13:31] <BigRedS> :)
[13:31] <oimon> which film btw?
[13:33] <BigRedS> captain america
[13:33] <oimon> i notice playing of dvds is still non-trivial, even after installing restricted-extras, you have to run a script hiding somewhere that downloads and installs a deb file. i have to google this every time i watch a dvd on a new PC
[13:33] <BigRedS> I was goaded into watching the rest of the run-ups to the avengers film beforeseeing it
[13:34] <BigRedS> but missed this one, and only afterwards do I find out this is the one with nazis in it
[13:34] <ali1234> it's also supposed to be the worst one
[13:34] <awilkins> They used to sell codec packs in the store, but they stopped
[13:34] <BigRedS> ali1234: that's probably fine, I have famously low standards :)
[13:35] <awilkins> I liked Captain America
[13:35] <awilkins> More than I used to like his comics
[13:36] <moviebun> BigRedS: My interest is centered around non-commercial dvds that aren't protected and where I have permission to excerpt and edit the video, so it's a matter of extracting the vobs into a folder. I tend to take them from there into a NLE.
[13:36] <oimon> just seen EA's screenshot of lord of ultima...ermm
[13:37] <awilkins> Not seen Hulk
[13:37] <awilkins> Saw Thor on a transatlantic flight
[13:37] <ali1234> moviebun: does using a real video editor in windows running inside virtualbox with ubuntu as host OS count?
[13:37] <oimon> awilkins, was he going on holiday?
[13:38] <DJones> I think its disappointing that Avengers Assemble doesn't have Patrick McNee, Diana Rigg and Honor Blackman in it
[13:38] <moviebun> ali1234: Which editor?
[13:38] <ali1234> premier mostly
[13:38] <moviebun> I'm using Kdenlive and OpenShot - not sure which I like most.
[13:39] <awilkins> Yegods, I have a powerful urge to drink right now. It's not even 1500
[13:39] <moviebun> Kdenlive has a stack of features, but OpenShot seems to be catching up.
[13:39] <awilkins> I am livening up the tedium by naming projects "CODPIECE"
[13:40] <ali1234> they're both horribly buggy
[13:40] <awilkins> (with a proper acronym to justify it)
[13:41] <ali1234> and that's compared to premier, which is famously buggy to start with
[13:41] <ali1234> i've never successfully done anything with openshot without hitting at least one bug
[13:41] <moviebun>  I think it's why I can't decide between them right now. If it's anything complex, I tend to use Kdenlive - but I like some of the rendering options in OpenShot, especially for the web. Don't have any experience of Premier.
[13:41] <yothsoggoth> yeah, whichever video editor you use just make sure you save very, very often.  Like ali1234 said they're all really buggy
[13:42] <ali1234> oh you don't want to use openshot default exports, they don't work properly at all
[13:42] <ali1234> they will either cut off the first or last second of video
[13:42] <ali1234> or the picture comes out upside down, or reversed YUV
[13:42] <moviebun> yothsoggoth: Been caught out there a few times, I have!
[13:44] <ali1234> also please note that blu-ray authoring is currently impossible on linux
[13:44] <moviebun> Still good to see some Linux alternatives to proprietary software. I read a good comparison of the field in a copy of Linux Format a couple of years back. One of the few magazines I saved rather than recycling after reading!
[13:44] <yothsoggoth> moviebun: and me. I remember spending about an hour editing some footage that needed sounds syncing to match some scenes, to lost the entire thing due to OpenShot crashing
[13:45] <oimon> i have zillions of linux magazines i keep , but should really recycle
[13:46] <moviebun> yothsoggoth: Heck yes - nowadays I save the project in Kdenlive about every 5 minutes while adding clips and editing them. And if I make a title clip, I always save after doing it as having to start again gets really irritating.
[13:47] <oimon> why so crashy?
[13:47] <moviebun> oimin: Have you come across Full Circle Magazine?
[13:47] <oimon> it's worrying that linux used to be known for rock solid apps
[13:47] <oimon> moviebun, yes, i read it occasionally
[13:47] <ali1234> it's not just that they are crashy
[13:47] <oimon> i subscribe to linux magazine
[13:47] <ali1234> they also miss basic features so everything takes 10 times longer than it would in a real editor
[13:47] <oimon> :(
[13:48] <ali1234> so you're likely to get 10x as many crashes on the same project, even if they were equally buggy
[13:48] <oimon> however, linux used to be solid (even fedora) before KDE , Gmone and unity decided to re-write everything,just crashier
[13:48] <ali1234> yeah
[13:48] <ali1234> there's too much IPC now
[13:49] <ali1234> just encourages deadlocks
[13:49] <oimon> new 12.04 users will experience many bugs and crashes that were an alien concept a few years ago
[13:49] <moviebun> Dunno why - maybe it's the complexity of the tasks? When a project has 10 clips of different sources, title clips, transitions, compositing and then rendering it all to one format, maybe that introduces a lot of points where a crash can happen?
[13:49] <oimon> movie maker didn't have this issue in 2002
[13:49] <oimon> or the pinnacle app i was using
[13:50] <ali1234> all the backend in both openshot and kdenlive is done by melt
[13:50] <ali1234> melt is like an even more buggy and crashy version of gstreamer
[13:51] <oimon> why don't they fix it?
[13:51] <oimon> they=everyone
[13:51] <ali1234> it's a script based system
[13:51] <ali1234> and if you make 1 typo in the script it segfaults
[13:51] <ali1234> it has zero error checking
[13:51] <davmor2> oimon: there your next project
[13:51] <moviebun> oimin: the Kdenlive forum has a post or two from people trying it in Ubuntu 12.04 and discussing their experiences. Not entirely smooth, But then again, when I first tried Kdenlive in Ubuntu 10.04 from the Software Center, I was missing a bunch of greyed out profiles.
[13:51] <oimon> davmor2, doesn't sound like something you can easily "dip into"...
[13:52] <davmor2> oimon: that's the point you can't assume that unless you know how codecs etc work that you can work on it with any ease
[13:52] <oimon> however ali1234 sounds knowledgeable..:)
[13:52] <ali1234> the reason nobody fixes it is because everyone with any sense is perfectly happy using something else
[13:52] <gord> heh, the idea that the open source ecosystem didn't used to be buggy, funny
[13:52] <ali1234> same reason why nobody fixes unity really
[13:53] <oimon> gord, been using since '99 , and never experienced bugs as much as ubuntu in 2012.
[13:53] <ali1234> same
[13:53] <oimon> debian stable seems happy to work properly
[13:54] <oimon> yesterday i got a bluetooth crash even though bluetooth isn't enabled on the laptop, then it asked me to run hcidump which isn't installed
[13:54] <oimon> all i wanted to do was quickly check my bank balance.
[13:55] <oimon> there's a lot more papercuts, like not being able to shutdown from the lightdm screen if another user is logged into a session
[13:56] <gord> ubuntu 12.04 seems to work properly for me, so by the same logic the open source ecosystem has never been more bug free
[13:56] <ali1234> yes but there's two of use and one of you, which means you;re wrong
[13:57] <ali1234> specifically, it means your assertion is unsupported annecdote
[13:57] <jpds> oimon: It would be most rude to shutdown the system with someone else in.
[13:57] <moviebun> stability is so important - I'd rather have stability than the very latest features any day
[13:58] <MooDoo> moviebun: switch to debian ;) :p
[13:59] <oimon> jpds, it lets me when i'm logged in to the session
[13:59] <oimon> so either it should ask me to authenticate or give a helpful error
[13:59] <oimon> rather than do nothing
[13:59] <Guest87126> Is there a global menu-bar for Eclipse?
[14:00] <ali1234> none helpful errors.. yes, ubuntu is full of them
[14:00] <ali1234> like the one you get from mythtv
[14:00] <ali1234> "cannot"
[14:01] <jpds> oimon: Are you a sudo user?
[14:01] <oimon> bug 681171
[14:01] <oimon> woops
[14:01] <oimon> bug 861171
[14:01] <moviebun> MooDoo: :-) I've tried AVLinux - that's Debian-based. Has a stack of (logically) audio-visual programs including Kdenlive and OpenShot.
[14:02] <oimon> ", everybody agrees that the issue is annoying, but the bug is not fixed yet is due to lack of manpower (and the fact that the bug is not that trivial to fix), not because the settings were not set higher, setting to High but it's not going to automagically resolve the issue..."
[14:03] <ali1234> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/82886662/Screenshot%20at%202011-10-15%2018%3A49%3A03.png
[14:03] <oimon> there's a point where you are drowning in bugs if all you do is make software with more bugs
[14:03] <ali1234> yeah. this software is too buggy
[14:03] <ali1234> clearly we should throw it out and just start over
[14:03] <hamitron> there's an idea ;)
[14:03] <MooDoo> if your spotting bugs i hope you're logging bug reports :)
[14:04] <moviebun> newbuntu!
[14:04] <oimon> MooDoo, if not already reported and not a design "feature" i collect them to the end of the week and report them
[14:04] <ali1234> aka the bogus approach to software design
[14:04] <MooDoo> awesome :D
[14:33] <davmor2> A new android popey has been created it seems http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151006799790499&set=a.231853995498.181285.121867580498&type=1
[14:33] <oimon> maybe we should bomb their comments and say popey?
[14:34] <davmor2> I was thinking about it :D
[14:37] <oimon> looking at the t-shirts on threadless.com, i would buy them, except for the horrible hipster types they have wearing them stops me at the last minute. if they just showed the tshirt i would buy.
[14:41] <mattt> oimon: ha
[14:41] <mattt> oimon: goofy reason to not buy a cool tee :)
[14:41] <ali1234> being a hipster is so mainstream now
[14:41] <ali1234> *flicks hair*
[14:41] <oimon> ^hair^beard
[14:46] <oimon> always wary about buying from the states as their sizes are weird
[15:08] <oimon> found a weird bug with my phone (htc desire)
[15:08] <oimon> power off phone. charge the phone, then unplug from charger and press power-on within a few seconds of removing cable.
[15:08]  * DJones passes oimon a can of raid
[15:09] <oimon> then cannot power on phone unless battery is removed
[15:16] <oimon> do t-mobile charge for calling 150?
[15:17] <MooDoo> oimon: don't think so as they are owned by orange, well i hope not as i rang them the other day lol
[15:17] <oimon> i've disocvered i can't login to their site
[15:17] <oimon> since they never sent me an email to confirm, and i've lost the username :-\
[15:17] <diplo> Afternoon, That was a horrible drive back from Nottingham
[15:18] <MooDoo> diplo: rain?
[15:18] <diplo> yah, and complete ahems on the M5
[15:18] <MooDoo> diplo: crappy weather
[15:18] <diplo> One guy in a merc doing 80/90 touching his breaks every 5 seconds, never knowing if he was going to break or not.
[15:19] <oimon> what is it about mercs/bmw and audi?
[15:19] <oimon> the indicators don't work on those cars
[15:19] <diplo> Yeah, and switching the bloomin lights on when it;s torrential rain!
[15:19] <oimon> i even see learners not using indicators
[15:19] <diplo> Couldn't see half of them
[15:20] <MooDoo> i'm on a motorbike so i have to be tripply careful
[15:21] <oimon> i just broke t-mobile automated sstem
[15:21] <diplo> not replaced my bike yet
[15:24] <diplo> Do I try and upgrade my VPS tonight, or am I too tired :D
[15:25] <MooDoo> diplo: how easy to upgrade?  does it need anything thinking?
[15:25] <andylockran> anyone on fasthosts in here and using their API ?
[15:26] <diplo> not looked yet MooDoo, BitFolk if you have tried
[15:29] <MooDoo> diplo: no not got a vps with them.
[15:30] <diplo> Bit of light reading for a few minutes and backup afew config files and then give it a go I guess.
[15:31] <MooDoo> reading?  pah leave it then ;)
[15:32] <oimon> why do phone companies need 30 days to cancel a 24 months contract?
[15:32] <oimon> what a scam
[15:32] <oimon> we all know when it finishes
[15:32] <diplo> I'm tired, better not make to many mistakes :D
[15:34] <oimon> anyone on giffgaff?
[15:35] <oimon> is their unltd internet actually unltd?
[15:35] <diplo> o/
[15:35] <diplo> Yup, to a fairly large extreme oimon
[15:35] <oimon> t-mobie didn't really want to hang on to me
[15:36] <diplo> They have had a few users who have abused it to the likes of 15-20gb a month i think
[15:36] <diplo> Who had been warned
[15:36] <diplo> If you check on the forums ( I did when I signed up ) and there was details on the limits
[15:36] <shauno> find it a bit odd that 15-20gb is abuse on a smartphone, but it's what I'm contracted on a dongle
[15:37] <diplo> tbh though, I rarely hit more than a gb a month
[15:37] <oimon> which price plan you on diplo ?
[15:37] <diplo> I don't think it's abuse shauno, it's just mobiles aren't thought/designed to use that amount so they havent allowed for it.
[15:38] <diplo> £10, 250mins/Unlimited text/Unlimited Data
[15:38] <oimon> yep, looking at that one
[15:38] <oimon> i can cancel at any time?
[15:38] <diplo> They keep recommending me the £5
[15:38] <diplo> Yep, monthly
[15:38] <oimon> what's the £5 ?
[15:38] <diplo> Can't remember, but I think for £5 a month extra I'd rather have plenty of mins
[15:39] <diplo> I'd rather have enough and not get caught out for £5 :)
[15:39] <oimon> i don't use minutes
[15:39] <oimon> and 20 text per month max
[15:39] <oimon> i might start on £10 though
[15:39] <oimon> t-mob were 10.50 for a 12-month
[15:39] <oimon> and "unlimited internet" is 250mb
[15:40] <diplo> Me either normally, but this month I've used over 150 because I went to a customer site and there phones weren't working, so I had to use my phone... would have been charged a fair bit if i wasn't on it
[15:40] <oimon> if my wife were on giffgaff too, i could use £5 one
[15:40] <diplo> heh, my friends still on T-Mobile when they had the umlimited proper and still gets it
[15:40] <oimon> i do too
[15:40] <oimon> well, android is 3gb.
[15:40] <diplo> yeah I've bought my kids that so we can text/chat for free
[15:41] <oimon> giffgaff is o2 right?
[15:41] <diplo> yeah
[15:41] <diplo> Only had 1 issue recently. Had a huge outing  a month or two ago and it took out there network for a few hours, flooding I think.
[15:41] <oimon> happens to anyone
[15:41] <diplo> But they have / are resolving it so it doesn't happen again
[15:41] <diplo> Exactly my thoughts
[15:41] <oimon> o2 are quite expensive though
[15:42] <diplo> Except they did have all there eggs in one basket
[15:42] <diplo> Bloody expensive yeah, it's why I didnt use them again
[15:42] <diplo> Simplicity deal was ok for mins/texts but no data
[15:42] <diplo> So giffGaff won out
[15:42] <diplo> Explicit no tethering though on GiffGaff ( Not sure how they detect ? )
[15:42] <oimon> 3 mobile are cheap too
[15:43] <oimon> diplo, i would tether on holiday hmm
[15:43] <diplo> yeah, get fairly bad reception in my house on three where I receive most calls/texts so they were out
[15:43] <diplo> I have tethered, and nowts been said
[15:44] <diplo> Not sure how they detect apart from network traffic headers maybe
[15:45] <DJones> diplo: I'm thinking about changing to giffgaff so I can connect my tablet via the wifi hotspot on my phone
[15:46] <diplo> DJones, I guess they wouldn't know the tablet is tethered, could be a tablet with a sim card
[15:46] <diplo> I'd like to know how they detect it tbh
[15:47] <awilkins> They've not detected me tethering
[15:47] <awilkins> I'd imagine my phone has very similar traffic to my laptop though, it's an N900
[15:47] <DJones> PLus they're both android, both have the same login's etc and wouldn't be silly use downloading ubuntu iso's etc, just normal browsing, email etc, I doub't that would be noticed
[15:47] <oimon> diplo, how did you do the PAC code with giffgaff?
[15:48] <oimon> i've ordered the sim already, but bought nothing on it
[15:48] <diplo> I didn't I'm afraid, I decided with the wife leaving me etc I'd start out all fresh with a new number, but PAC code process is very simple online from what I have heard from Friends
[15:48] <oimon> do you wanna earn referrer points?
[15:48] <shauno> I'm still trying to find a carrier that has data roaming nailed.  some of the prices are obscene
[15:49] <diplo> ooh yeah, I always forget :D
[15:49] <diplo> two secs thanks!
[15:49] <oimon> do you need my mob number?
[15:49] <jpds> shauno: £10 a month if obscene?
[15:49] <diplo> Just checking
[15:50] <jpds> shauno: is*
[15:50] <jpds> oimon: Should just need your giffgaff username.
[15:50] <shauno> jpds: that'd include roaming to other countries?
[15:51] <jpds> shauno: Ah, right; best to go local then.
[15:51] <diplo> oimon, already got your sim ?
[15:51] <oimon> nope
[15:51] <oimon> it's in the post
[15:52] <oimon> i haven't requested PAC from tmob yet , so will have to wait 30 days before activating
[15:52] <diplo> Ooh ok, hmm so basicaly 500 points if you order sim via my sim page
[15:52] <diplo> 200 points if you use my username
[15:52] <oimon> so we missed it already?
[15:53] <oimon> is voice mail free btw?
[15:53] <diplo> If and when you register just say partiuk reffered you
[15:53] <diplo> I'll get 200 points
[15:53] <diplo> Do you know what, I haven't had to retrieve one since being on and hadn't check prior
[15:53] <oimon> diplo, will do
[15:53] <diplo> I'll check now
[15:53] <diplo> http://giffgaff.com/orders/affiliate/partiuk
[15:54] <diplo> If you don't receive your SIM, re-order via that
[15:54] <diplo> :)
[15:54] <oimon> what are points anyway?
[15:54] <diplo> money, 500 points = £5
[15:54] <DJones> Could you just not order another sim anyway?
[15:54] <diplo> For every person you recruit you'll earn payback cash.1 recruit (1 activated SIM)= 500 pts / £5
[15:54] <DJones> And just activate that one, not the original one ordered
[15:54] <diplo> Yeah DJones he could, I think i did that with popey
[15:55] <diplo> oimon : dial 443 for voicemail. it costs 8p or 1minute of goodybag.
[15:55] <diplo> from the forums
[15:56] <oimon> 1minute from minutes is fine
[15:56] <oimon> t-mob was ripoff, i used hullomail mp3 voicemail instead
[15:56] <diplo> I think the same thing, not a big talker :D
[15:58] <oimon> so you enter the PAC code when you activate the SIM/
[16:00] <diplo> http://support.giffgaff.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/96/kw/transfer%20your%20number/r_id/166
[16:00] <diplo> It says make sure it's activated first
[16:00] <oimon> diplo FTW
[16:00] <oimon> thanks
[16:14] <moviebun> currently sipping a cold drink while installing 12.04 to a spare drive
[16:16] <moviebun> ....an experience that would be more enjoyable had I not come home to a dead bird brought in by the cat. Yuk!
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> moviebun: remember: it's not a gift, it's a warning
[16:32] <moviebun> MartiijnVdS: That's not what I told the cat! :-)
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> moviebun: but it is what it's telling you :)
[16:34] <moviebun> Makes sense. It's been eyeing me up in a funny way for a week or so. Could be cabin fever from all the wet weather. Time I cut him out of my will, I think...
[16:48] <BigRedS> Nono! It'll dislike you even more!
[17:41] <currymonster> Hi all, anybody recommend a vps provider for running a small mail server?
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> bitfolk!
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> also.. why run your own mail?
[17:51] <currymonster> MartijnVds: thanks
[17:53] <currymonster> who else am i gonna get to run my mail server?
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> Google :)
[17:54] <currymonster> how?
[17:55] <MartijnVdS> currymonster: http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/business/pricing.html -> the free plan
[17:55] <currymonster> thanks again
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> \o/ gmail, imho :)
[17:57] <currymonster> hmm basic website hosting too, bonus !!
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> they have that?
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> Using Google Site no doubt?
[17:58] <currymonster> yup
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> VPS is still useful though
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> for IRC ;)
[18:03] <currymonster> I would only need the vps to host email, but a basic website is a extra bonus, cheers for the google suggestion
[18:04] <MartijnVdS> np
[19:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ubuntu UK Podcast] S05E06  What I Saw in California - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2012/05/09/s05e06-what-i-saw-in-california/
[19:05] <zleap> rhythm box auto downloads em,.
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> so does banshee
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> Where would I go to buy a cheap phone charger? (store names? :)
[19:15] <zleap> i got one from amazon
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> zleap: yes, except I'm flying to Gatwick tomorrow and I need a charger with a UK plug :)
[19:16] <zleap> ok
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> +between landing a[Dnd sleep
[19:16] <popey> MartijnVdS: airport
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> popey: won't they cost £50 or something there?
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> Airports are known for that kind of stuff
[19:17]  * popey shrugs
[19:17] <zleap> possibly
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> Aren't there dedicated high-street mobile phone stores?
[19:18] <popey> yes, loads
[19:18] <popey> on most high streets
[19:18] <popey> where you staying?
[19:18] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: laptop...?
[19:18] <popey> does your phone not charge over usb?
[19:18] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: what kind of plug has your charger got?
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> popey: Flying to Gatwick, so train ends up at Victoria, but sleep is somewhere south of the river
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: micro usb
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: not bringing my laptop :)
[19:19] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: no, for mains
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: EU
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I know I can jam those in UK sockets with help of a screwdriver, but that's not very nice :)
[19:19] <popey> haha
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> popey: learned that trick at a UDS once  ;)
[19:20] <gordonjcp> not MK sockets with the rotating shutter
[19:20] <gordonjcp> but the ones with the earth pin slider do
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: in that case, you could use the screwdriver to disassemble the socket and use the bare wires :P
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> Also
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> I used to have a UK charger for my phone .. because I ordered from there
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> but I thought "Meh, not needed." and threw it away :|
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> <-- id10t
[19:29] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: if you have a USB cable, perhaps get a mains USB adapter, or better yet bring a 4-way mains adapter with USB ports and just get a UK->Eur mains adapter
[19:32] <diplo> evening ladies!
[19:32] <Azelphur> with Linux, suspend is "off" right?
[19:33] <Azelphur> as in, the hardware is shutdown, it just stores the ram state on the HDD and pulls it back again
[19:35] <daubers> lo
[19:37] <popey> Azelphur: no
[19:37] <popey> Azelphur: suspend = suspend to ram = using power to keep ram alive
[19:37] <Azelphur> ah
[19:37] <popey> Azelphur: hibernate = suspend to disk = no power used, state held on disk
[19:38] <Azelphur> I wonder why debian only offers you suspend, especially on a laptop, that seems bad
[19:38] <popey> so does ubuntu
[19:38] <popey> because hibernate is in general broken and slow
[19:39] <popey> suspend is in general worky and fast
[19:39] <Azelphur> I mean, Debian has no shutdown button
[19:39] <popey> do you not mean "GNOME Shell" rather than Debian?
[19:39] <popey> there is a power button on your computer
[19:39] <popey> tap it
[19:39] <Azelphur> yea, I tap that and it suspends
[19:40] <popey> sweet
[19:40] <popey> what desktop you using?
[19:40] <Azelphur> and in the GUI there's only suspend option xD
[19:40] <Azelphur> gnome shell lol
[19:40] <popey> hold alt
[19:40] <brobostigon> :)
[19:40] <popey> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/56/shutdown-by-default/version/843/
[19:40] <popey> or install that
[19:40] <Azelphur> magic
[19:40] <popey> or use a decent desktop

[19:40] <Azelphur> haha
[19:41] <Azelphur> just kinda doing a roam around different distros on my netbook
[19:41] <Azelphur> sorta tempted to switch to sid since I like shiny new things
[19:41] <brobostigon> gnome is not a decent desktop, no? short of haiku's, ?
[19:41] <popey> brobostigon: don't feed the troll
[19:41] <brobostigon> popey: ok,
[19:41] <Azelphur> haha
[19:41]  * brobostigon shuts up.
[19:53] <Azelphur> popey: happen to know roughly how long a laptop would last in suspend mode?
[19:53] <Azelphur> hours? days? o.O
[19:54] <jacobw> test it ;)
[19:54] <Azelphur> haha
[19:55] <popey> depends
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> mine lasts about 4 days
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> and then I have ~10 minutes of use left before it dies
[19:57] <jacobw> :D
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> Oooooohhhh http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1593273916/
[19:58] <Azelphur> haha
[19:58] <Azelphur> how rude, microsoft dmca'd the skypeopensource project
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> and that's why you use Google Talk :P
[19:58] <jacobw> bah
[19:58] <jacobw> microsoft
[19:59] <jacobw> empathy is awesome
[20:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Why not contribute to Ubuntu Manual - http://popey.com/blog/2012/05/09/why-not-contribute-to-ubuntu-manual/
[20:10] <mattt> what happened to the #ubuntu-uk meetings ?
[20:14] <YaManicKill> anyone had an issue with a recent php update on ubuntu server?
[20:23] <dogmatic69> YaManicKill: what issue?
[20:23] <dogmatic69> and what version
[20:24] <YaManicKill> 5.3.2-1ubuntu4.15
[20:25] <YaManicKill> basically, it has stopped actually calling php when it gets asked for a php file
[20:25] <YaManicKill> so its just basically sending you the php file
[20:25] <YaManicKill> I'm starting to think its an issue that I've created as I downgraded it and it didn't fix it
[20:25] <andrewebdev> Is there a way to see what app is requesting my system password? As I'm going about my business on my ubuntu, every so often the password dialog will pop up asking for my password, even though I'm not trying to do anything that would require it
[20:25] <andrewebdev> of course I cancel it
[20:25] <andrewebdev> but it kinda bothers me now
[20:30] <dogmatic69> YaManicKill: that is nothing to do with php, php does not handle web requests.
[20:31] <YaManicKill> hmmm yeah
[20:31] <dogmatic69> your web server is not initiating php properly and serving the file direct.
[20:31] <YaManicKill> yeah
[20:31] <dogmatic69> sounds like you updated apache and it killed your config
[20:32] <YaManicKill> php is def enabled in apache though
[20:32] <dogmatic69> good time to switch to cherokee ;)
[20:32] <YaManicKill> helpful
[20:33] <mattt> cherokee :-/
[20:33] <dogmatic69> ?
[21:00] <dogmatic69> anyone know about SPF records? I am trying to set one up but not sure how to do it right.
[21:01] <dogmatic69> I have added TXT record with 'v=spf1 a mx ~all' but that causes a soft fail as the IP is wrong.
[21:01] <dogmatic69> using google apps mail to send
[21:27] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.