[00:02] <ailo> len-dt: Get better. Feel free to rewrite everything if you want :)
[00:06] <len-dt> ailo, I am sure it will take several rewrites...
[14:42] <len-dt> holstein, heard you (ok saw) talking about mics other channel.
[14:42] <len-dt> interesting.
[14:42] <holstein> len-dt: hehe
[14:42] <holstein> i had talked gear with that cat before
[14:42] <holstein> those mics are awful though
[14:43] <holstein> i have been there
[14:43] <len-dt> Just bought a realatively cheap mic... at2020.
[14:43] <holstein> buying like $50-$70 crap gear
[14:43] <holstein> by the time i have 3 or 4 pieces, i could have just gotten an at2020
[14:43] <holstein> and been happy with it
[14:43] <holstein> not that i have one of those, but i know they are decent
[14:44] <len-dt> sounds not to bad. But anyway. Just for people like that guy... there are three mics the at2020, at 2035, at 2050
[14:44] <holstein> len-dt: i dont think you need to spend several grand necessarily to get a "good" sound
[14:44] <holstein> but, you cant make a dollar out of 15 cents
[14:44] <len-dt> the price range is $100 to about 280
[14:45] <holstein> yeah... sometimes you see that 2020 paired with something
[14:45] <holstein> headphones.. speakers... another mic
[14:45] <holstein> its a good value mic i think
[14:45] <holstein> and durable
[14:45] <holstein> and theres a USB version if memory serves
[14:46] <len-dt> but they are all the same capsule. the difference is that the 2050 has two of them for pattern change. the 2035 has pad and roll off. the 2020 is bare.
[14:46] <holstein> i think a USB mic is too "uni-tasking" for my taste.. but its a cheap way to get in the computer clean
[14:46] <holstein> len-dt: ive used one in the 4000's
[14:47] <len-dt> What I am saying I guess, is that the difference between a $300 dollar single capsule mic and the 2050 might be pretty big. The single capsule mic at that price is probably a lot better.
[14:48] <len-dt> even though they are about the same price.
[14:49] <len-dt> Or perhaps I am saying the cheapest mic in the series is often the best deal ... if used right.
[14:52] <len-dt> holstein, If a fig8 pattern is needed, or your lead vocal is a screamer who can't resist eating the mic... pattern and pad switches might be worth something ;-)
[14:54] <holstein> len-dt: AT makes good stuff too
[14:54] <holstein> good reputation
[14:54] <len-dt> holstein, a USB mic is a bad idea. It locks the computer to one track. It can not be used along side another interface at the same time because of sync issues.
[14:54] <holstein> len-dt: agreed
[14:54] <holstein> but, for that "podcaster" or the person who doesnt have a preamp... might be the most cost effective
[14:56] <len-dt> I heard lots of good stuff about the at2035. There were non in stock though, but I realize the 2020 is the same without the pad and rolloff. I'm not renting out ;-) 
[14:56] <holstein> i use a little AT pro35x live often for my bass
[14:56] <holstein> live and recording sometimes
[14:57] <holstein> that was around $100
[14:57] <holstein> and i beat it up on the road too
[14:57] <len-dt> holstein, it does sound nice :-) I am happy with it. It sounds more open than the dynamics I spent $250 on way back.
[14:58] <holstein> sometime, when i asee a good deal, im going to get a pair of the 2020's
[14:58] <holstein> i was going to get a pair, then i saw the rode nt5's on sale and went with them
[14:58] <holstein> i like rode.. and im happy with them
[14:59] <len-dt> pvm 520NTs I think. I was single and had money back then ;-)
[14:59] <holstein> really differnt mics though... i already have a nice large diaphragm condencer i like
[14:59] <holstein> the nt5's fill out my collection a little better
[14:59] <holstein> len-dt: hehe
[15:01] <len-dt> holstein, my wife, who has never used much more than sub sm58 mics... was really impressed with the at2020...
[15:02] <len-dt> shes a singer, i'm a player..
[15:02] <holstein> nie
[15:02] <holstein> nice*
[15:02] <holstein> yeah... the 2020 is not *that* much more than those other crap mics either
[15:02] <len-dt> I paid $100 canadian
[15:02] <holstein> still, that guy wants to get a $10,000 project from free software and a $40 mic
[15:03] <holstein> its just not realistic or practical
[15:03] <holstein> len-dt: i actually linked him/her the 2020 the first time
[15:05] <len-dt> holstein, I looked the mic he wants up. It was $70 or so the one I saw, but it came with a case and a fancy "looking" mic holder, so thge mic must be much cheaper than that. My at2020 is a bare mic.
[15:07] <len-dt> holstein, sometimes the way to learn is to spend money and fail. He may learn something about recording along the way. may find out it is not something hes ready for... it is a lot different than stage work.
[15:07] <holstein> len-dt: im afraid he will just have a sub-par time in linux and get frustrated
[15:08] <len-dt> I found I can record someone else not to bad, but not myself.
[15:08] <holstein> if i have time, i can do OK
[15:08] <len-dt> holstein, I think he will have a sub-par time where ever.
[15:08] <holstein> len-dt: lol
[15:09] <len-dt> I play a lot better now than I did in 1974, hes just starting recording, it takes practice too.
[15:10] <len-dt> holstein, anyway, I should go eat.
[15:10] <holstein> len-dt: right on! ...bon appetite
[16:31] <Len-nb> holstein, ailo about ardour and their policy. I have a suggestion.
[16:32] <Len-nb> our version is ubuntu specific or debian?
[16:32] <ailo> I believe it's debian
[16:32] <ailo> Not sure though
[16:33] <ailo> Len-nb: Do: apt-cache show ardour | grep Maintainer:
[16:33] <ailo> It should say Debian Multimedia Team
[16:33] <ailo> It should say Debian Multimedia Maintainers*
[16:35] <micahg> yeah, we have the Debian version unchange
[16:35] <Len-nb> I wonder if they would be willing to change the name of the *desktop file.
[16:35] <micahg> *unchanged
[16:36] <Len-nb> that way, a user could drop in the stock ardour package if they wanted support on the ardour site and it would not interfere with the one we installed.
[16:42] <ailo> I haven't really followed what the issue was with that
[16:43] <ailo> Len-nb: Have you subscribed to the debian multimedia list(s)?
[16:43] <ailo> You could drop a suggestion on their mail list
[16:44] <Len-nb> ailo, a user who asks for help at ardour who tells them they are running ubuntu, first gets told install the version from the ardour site or we won't talk to you.
[16:45] <ailo> And the same goes for Debian?
[16:45] <Len-nb> Any self compiled version.
[16:47] <Len-nb> The dev wants to know exactly what they are working with, not what some other person might have done to make it work with other libs or add extra features.
[16:47] <Len-nb> It sounds nasty, but I can understand it.
[16:49] <Len-nb> ailo, honestly, any modern machine has the diskspace for a static build. I don't know about memory... 
[16:49] <ScottL> len-dt, you can talk to quadrispro when you see him in channel, he's an awesomely awesome debian multimedia mainatiner
[16:50] <Len-nb> ScottL, I will. and I am not even thinking that the debian version has the slightest problem either. We have a people problem...
[16:51] <Len-nb> The best place for a US user of ardour to get help should still be at ardour. But right now it is not.
[16:53] <Len-nb> Making US so that either or will work means that support is better.
[16:56] <Len-nb> Ardour's version installs in it's own directory in /opt already. The only thing that might collide with the debian version is the desktop file... though ardour tends to include version info in theirs.
[17:12] <Len-nb> ailo, micahg do either of you use a virtual box for testing? Have you heard of a bug with the intel HD sound emulation?
[17:13] <Len-nb> there is a user on #ubuntustudio who says ac97 works ok but not HD.
[17:14] <micahg> I used to use that, maybe talk to debfx, he maintains it in Debian I believe
[17:15] <Len-nb> micahg, the user has corrected me... it is a problem with a hardware install. Sorry.
[17:25] <ailo> I use virtualbox sometimes, but I've found it's not reliable for testing installs and a few other things. 
[17:26] <ailo> Nice way to try different distros, just to get an inside look
[17:26] <ailo> Not really suitable for multimedia anyway
[17:27] <Len-nb> ailo, it seems the user was mixing up more than one problem. Not a native english speaker or writer. he is running on hardware now.
[23:32] <Len-nb> ailo_, Tried all the stuff on the linuxmusicians web page on my netbook. None of them seemed to help with my xrun/min problem. PCI latency seems to turn itself off. I can see it being set to 64 with dmesg but when I list it they are all 0. So PCIe interfaces
[23:41] <Len-nb> ailo_, before I do anything else, like figure out how to stop and start NM from user space (though I may do that for the fun of it anyway), I will wait till I have tried it with a good USB audio IF to see if it is something with the internal audio chipset.