[00:47] <lifeless> ev: I'd love to do a lightning talk, little tricky...
[00:48] <ev> lifeless: we could skype you :)
[00:50] <micahg> lifeless: lightning talk by phone and VNC?
[00:50] <lifeless> ev: nah, gets fiddly; a longer talk perhaps, but not a 3-minute (or even 5) one :)
[00:50] <lifeless> ev: have a good session though!
[00:50] <ev> lifeless: sure, and thanks!
[00:51] <ev> ps. we should touch base post UDS
[00:51] <ev> to discuss where things stand on the crash db and future plans
[00:51] <lifeless> absolutely
[00:52] <ev> cool
[01:00] <ev> lifeless: we have a number of sessions on it tomorrow throughout the day. The first general session is at your 4am, but the follow up session is at your noon. If you'd like to participate we can skype you in along with mpt.
[01:01] <lifeless> ev: wicked cool
[01:01] <lifeless> ev: also, while I have you, can I suggest that we replace mean with something more useful, e.g. median, or 99%th percentile
[01:02] <lifeless> ev: by more useful, I mean a better predictor of users experience; perhaps multiple metrics e.g.(10%ile 50%ile 99%ile)
[01:02] <ev> lifeless: yes, we're going to discuss that at length tomorrow - though mpt is probably the better person to talk to about this.
[01:02] <lifeless> ev: cool
[01:02] <ev> as he can more eloquently describe the intent and current plan for a better implementation that factors in decay
[01:03] <lifeless> mean + distribution + distribution parameters would do too, but I think most folk get percentiles more easily
[01:03]  * mpt checks Wikipedia and apparently we should be calling it MTTF instead...
[01:03] <ev> wow, I wish I saw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_time_between_failures earlier
[01:03] <mpt> oh, and "Failures which occur that can be left or maintained in an unrepaired condition, and do not place the system out of service, are not considered failures under this definition."
[01:04] <mpt> So we should use a totally different term anyway
[01:04] <ev> yeah
[01:04] <mpt> ATBE? :-)
[01:06] <lifeless> http://www.eventhelix.com/RealtimeMantra/FaultHandling/reliability_availability_basics.htm#Software%20Failures
[01:06] <lifeless> is good
[01:17] <mpt> ev, btw, maybe you saw, but I rewrote the rationale
[01:17] <mpt> in preparation for tomorrow
[01:17] <ev> mpt: I did! I thanked you for it in an email :)
[01:17] <mpt> oh :-)
[04:27] <nixternal> infinity: hey, using live-build to build out an image, but when i use casper/ from the build out, i get that 'no /dev/zram0' error. my iso has a .disk. any ideas/help would be great
[06:51] <`26> I must be stupid or otherwise -- for the past few hours, I've been unsuccessfully been searching for information on how "Ubuntu Alternate" ISO images are built. Of course it's a script that makes calls to debootstrap, mksquashfs, mkisofs, etc., but where is it?
[06:55] <mwhudson> i think a locked toilet with a sign saying "beware of the leopard" may be involved
[16:07] <cnd> pitti, I uploaded a new xserver-xorg-input-synaptics sru a few days ago, but it hasn't been approved yet
[16:07] <cnd> do you know what is holding it up?
[16:14] <Laney> cjwatson: do you want to look at ben some time?
[16:17] <cjwatson> Laney: yeah, maybe this evening after the keysigning, if we don't have some other free period?
[16:17] <infinity> cnd: There's this thing called UDS going on.  I imagine that might be slowing some of us down. ;)
[16:18] <Laney> cjwatson: I think we have the team dinner tonight :/
[16:18] <Laney> and I'm leaving tomorrow PM
[16:20] <cnd> infinity, other SRUs have been processed as normal, so I thought I'd ask in case there was something wrong with it
[16:22] <infinity> cnd: To be fair, I haven't looked at it.  Let me see.
[16:31] <jibel> pitti, zenity 3.4.0-0ubuntu3 in precise-updates introduced a regression - bug 968534
[16:34] <Saurabh_123> Hey, will ubuntu 12.10 include HUD with speech?
[16:38] <cjwatson> Laney: oh, hmm, OK, I'll see if I can carve out time then
[16:41] <roaksoax> cjwatson: hi! I want your input with something I'km working on with installing a squashfs from d-i. So I'm doing this: 1. PXE Boot mini ISO image. 2. From d-i, download a squashfs filesystem (stored in /cdrom/casper) 3. d-i sets live-installer/enable boolean true & live-installer/mode string live 4. installation completes successfully, however, grub (even though it seems that it installs correctly) doesn't seem to detect there's a root bootable partition
[16:42] <roaksoax> cjwatson: any ideas fo why that might be, and/or what am I doing wrong?
[16:47] <cjwatson> roaksoax: do you have something I can come and look at?  this'd be easier in person
[16:47] <cjwatson> (not necessarily *right* now)
[16:48] <cjwatson> roaksoax: oh, er, why mode live rather than mode normal?  seems a very odd choice
[16:49] <cjwatson> roaksoax: you surely want to end up with a normal installed system, rather than a copy of the livefs that still boots in live style
[16:49] <roaksoax> cjwatson:  mode normal seems to just continue a normal install. When would it be better for you to look at it?
[16:52] <cjwatson> roaksoax: mode normal is what you want, I'm pretty sure.  maybe late morning sometime?
[16:53] <roaksoax> cjwatson: works for me, just let me know ;)
[17:08] <pitti> cnd: yeah, sorry about that; UDS and all that..
[17:10] <cnd> pitti, ok, np
[17:10] <pitti> cnd: feel free to ping RAOF and SpamapS as well, to increase the chances
[17:11] <cnd> pitti, oh, RAOF can do it?
[17:11] <cnd> I'll bug him then since it's X related
[17:11] <pitti> cnd: yes, there's quite a number of people in ~ubuntu-sru :)
[17:35] <jono> kees, hey, yeah the validation server got wedged
[17:35] <jono> your accomplishments should be verified now
[18:30] <EvilResistance> is totem considered 'core'?
[18:31] <mpt> EvilResistance, it's in Main and installed by default, so probably
[18:31] <mpt> It isn't part of "Ubuntu Core", though
[18:32] <EvilResistance> that's what i wanted to know about
[18:32] <EvilResistance> if it was considered part of the Ubuntu Core
[18:33] <ogra_> sadly that term is massively overloaded
[18:33] <EvilResistance> ogra_:  hence me asking what is considered part of Ubuntu Core
[18:33] <ogra_> well, the question is *which* ubuntu core ;)
[18:33] <ogra_> we have at least three
[18:33] <EvilResistance> there's a bug against 'totem' with an undecided level of importance, if totem is core, it becomes medium, if totem is non-core, its low (based on the bugsquad documentation for importance)
[18:34] <ogra_> there are the ubuntu-core images and there is the ubuntu "core" packageset
[18:34]  * ogra_ tries to remember the third
[18:34] <mpt> glatzor, hi, in what kind of tasks would you encounter ERROR_REPO_DOWNLOAD_FAILED? For example, would you get it if you clicked "Check" in Update Manager while not connected to the Internet?
[18:34] <ogra_> EvilResistance, totem is definitely in the set of supported apps
[18:35] <ogra_> which this specific "core" probably refers to
[18:35] <EvilResistance> ogra_:  i've made a note about that in my bug importance recommendation to bugcontrol
[18:35] <EvilResistance> ;P
[18:36] <EvilResistance> (because sometimes i'm incorrect in judging what is/isnt core)
[18:36] <EvilResistance> i know 'Universe' and 'Multiverse' are non-core ;P
[18:36] <EvilResistance> but that's a given :P
[18:36] <ogra_> well, i would just not use that term :)
[18:37] <EvilResistance> problem is its what determines in cases a severity of Medium vs. Low
[18:37] <micahg> EvilResistance: we should probably discuss the wording in the next bugsquad meeting
[18:37] <EvilResistance> micahg:  i agree, 'core' needs defining
[18:37] <EvilResistance> in explicit terms
[18:37]  * micahg would just s/core/default/
[18:37] <ogra_> ++
[18:37] <EvilResistance> micahg:  you're bugcontrol right?
[18:37] <micahg> yes
[18:38] <EvilResistance> micahg:  care to visit -bugs?
[18:38] <micahg> am there :)
[18:38] <EvilResistance> did you see the messages i just posted there?
[18:38] <EvilResistance> (IMO, all bugcontrol should highlight on bugcontrol being stated)
[19:19] <lifeless> ev: I'm around from here on in, ping me when you want me on skype
[19:19] <ev> lifeless: yay
[19:21] <ev> we've got a session on bucketing crashes at 3pm our time and part two of our general chat about the crash database at 5pm our time
[19:22] <ev> lifeless: would be great if you can attend both or at least the general one (so we can discuss whatever we're calling MBTF)
[19:26] <lifeless> should be totally able to
[19:28] <ev> wonderful
[19:28] <lifeless> its 12:30 for you now, right ?
[19:28] <dholbach> asomething, thanks a bunch for your work on the packaging guide
[19:29] <dholbach> lifeless, yes
[19:29] <asomething>  dholbach, no problem!
[19:29] <melodie> hello
[19:29] <dholbach> asomething, I fixed the singlehtml symlinking as well and updated the publishing script
[19:30] <dholbach> asomething, with the next recipe build we should have this all reflected
[19:30] <dholbach> (assuming we get the other merge proposal in as well)
[19:30] <asomething> dholbach, just saw that. I'll give the singlehtml branch a quick look and land it
[19:30] <dholbach> awesome :-D
[22:01] <psusi> I'm a little confused by a session today... why would you want upstart in the initramfs?
[22:02] <IntuitiveNipple> Would it help avoid degraded raids that prevent the system booting?
[22:03] <psusi> I don't see why
[22:11] <broder> psusi: in a session now so can't really talk, but the current serialized initramfs is slow and can be racy, and using upstart would fix this and let us share more code between initrd and rootfs
[22:12] <lifeless> ev: so, is the session now ?
[22:12] <ev> lifeless: G. Ballroom A
[22:12] <ev> yes
[22:13] <psusi> broder, what is an example of something that we normally do in upstart that you might want in the initrd?  afaik, the few things we also want in the initrd are handled via udev, not upstart, and that's already in the initrd
[22:13] <lifeless> ev: you mentioned skype, or did you mean the icecast stream ?
[22:13] <psusi> the example given in the blueprint is luks, but I don't see why you would want luks to be handled by upstart
[22:13] <ev> lifeless: I can skype you in
[22:13] <lifeless> cool
[22:14] <ev> mpt: would you like to be skyped in as well?
[22:14] <mpt> ev, to what?
[22:15] <ev> bucketing improvements
[22:15] <lifeless> bucketing improvements
[22:15] <lifeless> bwah
[22:15] <mpt> ev, oh, no thanks, I unsubscribed from that one -- I doubt I would be useful there