pleia2in a QA session, QAing it up00:21
ochosigood luck!00:21
ochosihow was the flavors-session btw?00:22
pleia2the plenary presentation?00:22
ochosii saw a pic on your blog, but didn't have time to read00:23
pleia2was good :)00:24
ochosigood feedback?00:24
pleia2yes, lots of good discussions afterwards (lots of people didn't know I did xubuntu stuff)00:24
ochosiit's really great you're there00:25
ochosiguess that raises awareness for xubuntu by..hmm... let's say 100% :)00:25
ochosiit's getting late where i am, have fun @uds, ttyl pleia2 !00:26
pleia2thanks :) good night00:26
knomepleia2, hey!00:41
knomepleia2, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel00:41
pleia2mailing list!00:42
knomedid you open the link?00:42
pleia2that's pretty00:42
pleia2I learned about checkbox this week00:42
pleia2we should make some :)00:43
knomemaybe talk with astraljava on that00:44
* pleia2 nods00:44
knomeuoh, almost 4am00:46
pleia2good night, knome!00:47
knomehmm, did i say i'm going? :P00:47
Unit193Yep, much better.00:51
knomei suppose i'm off to bed now00:54
knomeso nighty, and have fun you there00:54
pleia2night :)00:54
Unit193Good night.00:54
AyaneForeverWill Xfce 4.10 be in the precise repositories at a later time so we can install them easily if we so choose? Same way users and get Gnome-Shell05:04
astraljavaOoh, test automation. /me drools05:05
Unit193No, but you can add a thirdparty ppa, it just won't be supported.05:05
ochosioh, checkbox looks interesting07:04
ochosijust started working on a dark style for the logout-dialog: https://plus.google.com/photos/106086509626546157534/albums/5740863326954886321/574086332626869453011:22
ochosiUnit193: since you mention blackbird every now and then, i think blackbird will be gtk3 only (when it happens), inner-border highlights can't really be done in a sensible way in gtk2 to allow a really nice dark style (at least not with murrine)11:23
ochosibluesabre: ping15:58
ochosihi sean15:59
bluesabrehows it going simon?15:59
ochosifine fine :)15:59
ochosione sec, tel16:00
ochosiok, back16:04
ochosiyeah, i just started fiddling with dark styles again16:04
ochosisince i remembered that the logout-dialog is finally themeable in xfce4.1016:04
ochosiabout the shortcuts-overlay16:04
ochosii think it might be of value talking to some folks in #xfce-dev16:05
ochosithey might have some pointers for you/us16:05
bluesabrethats a good idea16:05
ochosii think that jeromeg did most of the kb-shortcuts stuff and the notification daemon16:06
ochosibut he's not around much lately16:06
ochosiwas a rather quiet day today in that channel :)16:06
ochosiwhat timezone are you in?16:06
bluesabreeastern (US)16:06
bluesabregmt-5 I think16:07
ochosiso it's midnight where you are?16:07
ochosioh darn, wrong direction :)16:07
bluesabreyeah, work is slow, so I generally have time for other projects16:08
ochosiwell noon is good i guess, that means it's not too late when people get off work here16:08
ochosimost people in #xfce-dev are from europe16:08
ochosithat's nice!16:08
ochosii also try to make some spare time to work on xubuntu stuff16:08
ochosido you know any of the xubuntu-folks yet?16:09
ochosiok, there's knome, he's currently the project lead16:10
ochosimicahg and mr_pouit do the packaging and most of the technical stuff16:10
ochosipleia2 (currently at uds) does web/marketing16:11
ochosithose are the ones with official roles in the team16:11
ochosi(well and me, but you know me already)16:11
ochosibut there are also a few others folks who help with testing etc16:12
ochosiyeah, we're a tiny team :)16:12
ochosimakes it easier to manage though16:12
bluesabreI can imagine that would help for collaborating16:13
ochosiluckily most of those guys/girls are on irc, that makes things more direct and quicker16:13
ochosibut it also means we're limited with what we can do16:14
ochosimostly we can try to distribute, only very seldomly really develop something16:15
bluesabreIt's a good thing that xfce is so mature then16:16
ochosiyes, it's not moving at the speed of light, but the devs are really keen to keep it stable16:17
ochosi(i mean the development, xfce itself is fast :) )16:17
bluesabreSo are the xfce-devs online throughout much of the day?16:19
ochosiyeah, but that also depends on their workdays16:20
ochosiso it differs16:20
ochosibut generally i'd say yes16:20
ochosiif you have a remote login, that's really practical, because you can ping others and ask questions and they'll answer whenever they're around16:20
bluesabreMakes sense.  I'll get something like that set up16:21
knomebluesabre, hello16:21
bluesabrehi knome16:21
ochosihullo knome :)16:21
knomehi ochosi 16:21
ochosiknome: any opinion on the dark logout stuff?16:22
knomeochosi, shots?16:22
ochosiknome: https://plus.google.com/photos/106086509626546157534/albums/5740863326954886321/574086332626869453016:22
knomeochosi, generally i think it would add consistency, i think16:22
ochosiknome: wow, you _think_ a lot there ;)16:22
knomemaybe tune it a bit, but looks okay16:22
knomehaha, yeah, oops...16:23
knomejust sitting down for a while16:23
knomeice hockey soon16:23
ochosianyhoo, what i originally wanted to do is add some light inner borders to the buttons16:23
ochosisadly that's impossible with murrine16:23
ochosimmm, icehockey sounds like fun16:23
ochosiwe have 27°C here ;)16:23
knomeit's just my country is going to crush mr_pouit's country this time ;)16:24
ochosithese are the kind of buttons i'd love to do: http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/097/4/c/eidete__rebound__by_danrabbit-d4v9moe.png16:24
ochosiooh :)16:24
knomeyeah, that's not bad16:24
ochosiwe'll have to wait for gtk3 for that style though16:24
ochosiunless i overlooked an obvious option16:24
knomeanyway, i'm off16:24
knomewill be back later in the evening16:24
ochosiok, hf16:24
knomebluesabre, if you're here too later, see you too :)16:24
knomehf you too16:25
ochosibetter or worse? http://imagebin.org/21185516:36
bluesabreI think I like it better16:39
mr_pouitknome: :>16:41
ochosii'm still tweaking, but i think the buttons are more visible16:41
ochosithoughts mr_pouit ?16:41
mr_pouitnot sure, I'd say they are slightly less visible now (but I like it better as well :p)16:43
ochosioh no, i hate it when that happens (uni rebooted the server :( )16:45
ochosiwhat did i miss?16:45
mr_pouitnot sure, I'd say they are slightly less visible now (but I like it better as well :p)16:47
mr_pouitmaybe you mised that16:47
ochosiok :)16:47
mr_pouit(time to catch my train, bbl)16:47
ochosiok, see ya16:47
bluesabreI pushed an update to the overlay.  For now, there is a new file that does system calls to xfconf-query to eliminate the bs4 dependency16:48
bluesabrethough, there is probably a better solution still16:49
ochosiright, would be interesting to know what creates more overhead16:53
ochosi(or whether it doesn't matter much)16:53
bluesabresince I am using python, there's going to be some overhead no matter what.  I might look into putting it together with c/c++ or vala16:58
bluesabrebut, one step at a time, right?16:59
ochosisure thing :)16:59
ochosino hurry, we still have until 12.10 feature-freeze ;)17:00
ochosifinally took on blackbird again. gaze in awe: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05102012-081421pm.php18:14
bluesabreWhat is this theme and where do I get it!?  :-D18:15
ochosithis is blackbird, the dark variant of greybird that i've been secretly workin on in my cellar ;)18:16
ochosino seriously, it's _very_ unfinished18:16
bluesabrelooks really sharp18:16
ochosijust did the window-borders18:16
ochosithere's still a lot to do18:16
bluesabrethink it might see the 12.10 release?18:17
ochosiwell, i'm keeping fingers crossed18:17
ochosibut it depends18:17
ochosilast cycle a lot of things changed in gtk3 and in unico-engine18:17
ochosiso i had to work on greybird quite a bit18:17
ochosibecause that should be flawless, since it's the defaul18:17
ochosiunfortunately i'm quite alone on this18:17
ochosiwould be great to have someone else help out with that18:18
bluesabreI suck at theming18:18
ochosiwell to some extent it's mechanical and to some it's trial and error18:18
ochosiat least as soon as you know where you wanna go18:18
baizonochosi: looking awesome :)18:21
ochosibaizon: ty :)18:21
ochosik i'm off for now, bbl18:22
Unit193ochosi: Errr... I was waiting and keeping that in offtopic, except when asked what I used that time.18:29
baizonNew LightDM theme <- are there precise plans?19:55
Unit193Pretzel you mean? (Q)19:58
knomehere i am20:03
Unit193Dang, he's back. ;)20:03
knomeochosi, blackbird looks good. i'd probably rethink the window button contrast though20:03
knomeochosi, that complete-white could work as pressed-state though20:04
SATopblackbird ?20:04
Unit193Shimmer theme.20:04
knomereferring to http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05102012-081421pm.php20:04
knomeochosi, i think black-and-white theme would be awesome. i mean, cut the colors on the theme to minimum, at most use some really light blue hues or so20:05
SATopi like white text on black theme with a blue color or something 20:06
Unit193This may only be for the weirdos and freaks (...me?)20:07
knomelet's see what ochosi comes up with (and what i can convince him to come up with)20:07
SATopespeccially for toolbars/panels20:07
knomeUnit193, i wouldn't say so, but as long as dark themes have so many problems, they will most probably not be widely used20:07
bramwelt/wi/win 220:24
ochosiahoi everyone21:03
ochosii'll be around in a few mins21:03
knomehey hey ochosi :)21:03
ochosii think i'm slowly but surely figuring out how to make decent dark buttons in gtk221:04
ochosiUnit193: no worries, i'm reviving blackbird on my own terms (because i _want_ to and because i'm slowly starting to have a vision of what it could look like)21:04
knomenp: a-ha / Take On Me21:05
Unit193I can pull from git and "test" if I know what I'm looking for.21:07
knomeUnit193, iirc, ochosi said there's something else to test with 4.8 too :)21:08
Unit193Hmmm, must hvae forgotten. :/21:22
knomeUnit193, could've been on #shimmer too21:23
* Unit193 isn't there, so wouldn't be a forgotten thing.21:23
knomei'm guessing that's most probably what it was21:24
knomesome testing for greybird21:24
SATopbrainstormed, compiz expo and scale plugin ... in xfce/xubuntu without compiz itself22:11
ochosii'm back, later than anticipated22:25
knomeheh :)22:25
ochosiknome: yes, my most recent greybird-commit for the dark logout screen22:25
ochosibut in the meantime i'm rather sure it won't work with 4.822:26
ochosianyhoo, i'm not sure whether i want to tune down the contrasts too much with blackbird22:27
ochosia smooth darkgrey theme that looks nice at the same time is kinda difficult22:27
ochosii think i'll try something more contrasty first22:28
knomeonce you get most of the bugs fixed ;) i can try to play with the colors22:28
ochosiwell bugs, i'm not even talking about bugs yet22:29
ochosifirst i have to fix one widget after the other22:29
ochosibuttons are no.1 for now, they seem hardest and most important to me atm22:29
ochosiand i have to figure out a highlight-color22:30
ochosii mean the selected_bg_color22:30
ochosiif you have ideas don't hold them back :P22:30
knomewell bugs/getting everything to work at least somehow and set the basic style22:30
knomewhat if selected was *really dark* ?22:31
ochosihmm, not 100% sure22:31
knometry it22:31
ochosibut the fact that this would mean not having real colours is tempting22:31
knomethat was my idea ;)22:32
ochosii'm already starting to feel better about the notebook-style: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05112012-123824am.php22:38
ochosithink i'll continue with the window manager for a bit now22:39
ochosithere are still quite a few buttons missing22:39
ochosiand i'm not sure about the highlighted-state22:39
ochosiok, first stab at active-inactive window-borders: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05112012-124714am.php22:47
ochosisubtle, but actually easily distinguishable22:49
ochosiat least in rl-testing22:49
ochosithe minimize button looks kinda fat atm22:55
ochosibut maybe that's not even the worst thing22:55
ochosistatus quo: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05112012-125942am.php22:59
ochosior better: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05112012-010452am.php23:05
knomewhat if the inactive window button icons were smaller? possible?23:08
ochosibut don't forget that you'll still sometimes want to hit them23:10
ochosieven if a window is not in the foreground, i sometimes tend to close or minimize them without wanting to bring them to the front first (because the buttons are too small to really handle them)23:12
knomei mean, not smaller smaller, just thinner looking23:12
ochosihm, well, probably possible, depends on your skillset mostly :)23:12
knomeyou mean, *your* ?23:13
ochosiatm they're ~2px wide23:13
ochosicould start to look fuzzy at ~1px23:13
ochosibut maybe worth a try23:13
knomemaybe... maybe not :)23:13
ochosiyup, not sure tbh :)23:13
ochosii think widget-wise i'll fix next what annoys me the most23:15
ochosiso either the highlight-color, which is rather difficult, or the scrollbars23:15
ochosithink the scrollbar-style is also slowly getting somewhere: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05112012-013314am.php23:33
Unit193Yeah, that black thing is nice.23:34
ochosiokie, off for now, night everyone!23:47
knomenight ochosi 23:48

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