[00:21] <pleia2> in a QA session, QAing it up
[00:21] <ochosi> :)
[00:21] <ochosi> good luck!
[00:22] <ochosi> how was the flavors-session btw?
[00:22] <pleia2> the plenary presentation?
[00:22] <ochosi> yes
[00:23] <ochosi> i saw a pic on your blog, but didn't have time to read
[00:24] <pleia2> was good :)
[00:24] <ochosi> good feedback?
[00:24] <pleia2> yes, lots of good discussions afterwards (lots of people didn't know I did xubuntu stuff)
[00:25] <ochosi> kewl
[00:25] <ochosi> it's really great you're there
[00:25] <ochosi> guess that raises awareness for xubuntu by..hmm... let's say 100% :)
[00:26] <ochosi> it's getting late where i am, have fun @uds, ttyl pleia2 !
[00:26] <pleia2> thanks :) good night
[00:41] <knome> pleia2, hey!
[00:41] <knome> pleia2, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
[00:42] <pleia2> mailing list!
[00:42] <pleia2> whoa
[00:42] <knome> did you open the link?
[00:42] <knome> ;)
[00:42] <pleia2> that's pretty
[00:42] <knome> gooD!
[00:42] <pleia2> I learned about checkbox this week
[00:43] <knome> checkbox?
[00:43] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/Checkbox
[00:43] <pleia2> we should make some :)
[00:43] <knome> yeah
[00:44] <knome> maybe talk with astraljava on that
[00:44]  * pleia2 nods
[00:46] <knome> uoh, almost 4am
[00:47] <pleia2> hehe
[00:47] <pleia2> good night, knome!
[00:47] <knome> hmm, did i say i'm going? :P
[00:47] <pleia2> hehe
[00:51] <Unit193> Yep, much better.
[00:54] <knome> i suppose i'm off to bed now
[00:54] <knome> so nighty, and have fun you there
[00:54] <pleia2> night :)
[00:54] <Unit193> Good night.
[05:04] <AyaneForever> Will Xfce 4.10 be in the precise repositories at a later time so we can install them easily if we so choose? Same way users and get Gnome-Shell
[05:05] <astraljava> Ooh, test automation. /me drools
[05:05] <Unit193> No, but you can add a thirdparty ppa, it just won't be supported.
[07:04] <ochosi> oh, checkbox looks interesting
[11:22] <ochosi> just started working on a dark style for the logout-dialog: https://plus.google.com/photos/106086509626546157534/albums/5740863326954886321/5740863326268694530
[11:23] <ochosi> Unit193: since you mention blackbird every now and then, i think blackbird will be gtk3 only (when it happens), inner-border highlights can't really be done in a sensible way in gtk2 to allow a really nice dark style (at least not with murrine)
[15:58] <ochosi> bluesabre: ping
[15:59] <bluesabre> hey
[15:59] <ochosi> hi sean
[15:59] <bluesabre> hows it going simon?
[15:59] <ochosi> fine fine :)
[16:00] <ochosi> one sec, tel
[16:04] <ochosi> ok, back
[16:04] <ochosi> yeah, i just started fiddling with dark styles again
[16:04] <ochosi> since i remembered that the logout-dialog is finally themeable in xfce4.10
[16:04] <ochosi> about the shortcuts-overlay
[16:05] <ochosi> i think it might be of value talking to some folks in #xfce-dev
[16:05] <ochosi> they might have some pointers for you/us
[16:05] <bluesabre> thats a good idea
[16:06] <ochosi> i think that jeromeg did most of the kb-shortcuts stuff and the notification daemon
[16:06] <ochosi> but he's not around much lately
[16:06] <ochosi> was a rather quiet day today in that channel :)
[16:06] <ochosi> what timezone are you in?
[16:06] <bluesabre> eastern (US)
[16:07] <bluesabre> gmt-5 I think
[16:07] <ochosi> so it's midnight where you are?
[16:07] <bluesabre> noon
[16:07] <ochosi> oh darn, wrong direction :)
[16:07] <bluesabre> lol
[16:08] <bluesabre> yeah, work is slow, so I generally have time for other projects
[16:08] <ochosi> well noon is good i guess, that means it's not too late when people get off work here
[16:08] <ochosi> most people in #xfce-dev are from europe
[16:08] <ochosi> that's nice!
[16:08] <ochosi> i also try to make some spare time to work on xubuntu stuff
[16:09] <ochosi> do you know any of the xubuntu-folks yet?
[16:10] <bluesabre> nope
[16:10] <ochosi> ok, there's knome, he's currently the project lead
[16:10] <ochosi> micahg and mr_pouit do the packaging and most of the technical stuff
[16:11] <ochosi> pleia2 (currently at uds) does web/marketing
[16:11] <ochosi> those are the ones with official roles in the team
[16:11] <ochosi> (well and me, but you know me already)
[16:12] <bluesabre> cool
[16:12] <ochosi> but there are also a few others folks who help with testing etc
[16:12] <ochosi> yeah, we're a tiny team :)
[16:12] <ochosi> makes it easier to manage though
[16:13] <bluesabre> I can imagine that would help for collaborating
[16:13] <ochosi> luckily most of those guys/girls are on irc, that makes things more direct and quicker
[16:14] <ochosi> but it also means we're limited with what we can do
[16:15] <ochosi> mostly we can try to distribute, only very seldomly really develop something
[16:16] <bluesabre> It's a good thing that xfce is so mature then
[16:17] <ochosi> yes, it's not moving at the speed of light, but the devs are really keen to keep it stable
[16:17] <ochosi> (i mean the development, xfce itself is fast :) )
[16:19] <bluesabre> right
[16:19] <bluesabre> So are the xfce-devs online throughout much of the day?
[16:20] <ochosi> yeah, but that also depends on their workdays
[16:20] <ochosi> so it differs
[16:20] <ochosi> but generally i'd say yes
[16:20] <bluesabre> cool
[16:20] <ochosi> if you have a remote login, that's really practical, because you can ping others and ask questions and they'll answer whenever they're around
[16:21] <bluesabre> Makes sense.  I'll get something like that set up
[16:21] <knome> bluesabre, hello
[16:21] <bluesabre> hi knome
[16:21] <ochosi> hullo knome :)
[16:21] <knome> hi ochosi 
[16:22] <ochosi> knome: any opinion on the dark logout stuff?
[16:22] <knome> ochosi, shots?
[16:22] <ochosi> knome: https://plus.google.com/photos/106086509626546157534/albums/5740863326954886321/5740863326268694530
[16:22] <knome> ochosi, generally i think it would add consistency, i think
[16:22] <ochosi> knome: wow, you _think_ a lot there ;)
[16:22] <knome> maybe tune it a bit, but looks okay
[16:23] <knome> haha, yeah, oops...
[16:23] <ochosi> hehe
[16:23] <knome> just sitting down for a while
[16:23] <knome> ice hockey soon
[16:23] <ochosi> anyhoo, what i originally wanted to do is add some light inner borders to the buttons
[16:23] <ochosi> sadly that's impossible with murrine
[16:23] <ochosi> mmm, icehockey sounds like fun
[16:23] <ochosi> we have 27°C here ;)
[16:23] <knome> heh
[16:24] <knome> it's just my country is going to crush mr_pouit's country this time ;)
[16:24] <ochosi> these are the kind of buttons i'd love to do: http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/097/4/c/eidete__rebound__by_danrabbit-d4v9moe.png
[16:24] <ochosi> ooh :)
[16:24] <knome> yeah, that's not bad
[16:24] <ochosi> we'll have to wait for gtk3 for that style though
[16:24] <knome> yeah
[16:24] <ochosi> unless i overlooked an obvious option
[16:24] <knome> anyway, i'm off
[16:24] <knome> will be back later in the evening
[16:24] <ochosi> ok, hf
[16:24] <knome> bluesabre, if you're here too later, see you too :)
[16:25] <knome> hf you too
[16:25] <bluesabre> thanks
[16:25] <bluesabre> seeya
[16:36] <ochosi> better or worse? http://imagebin.org/211855
[16:39] <bluesabre> I think I like it better
[16:41] <mr_pouit> knome: :>
[16:41] <ochosi> i'm still tweaking, but i think the buttons are more visible
[16:41] <ochosi> thoughts mr_pouit ?
[16:43] <mr_pouit> not sure, I'd say they are slightly less visible now (but I like it better as well :p)
[16:45] <ochosi> oh no, i hate it when that happens (uni rebooted the server :( )
[16:45] <ochosi> what did i miss?
[16:47] <mr_pouit> not sure, I'd say they are slightly less visible now (but I like it better as well :p)
[16:47] <mr_pouit> maybe you mised that
[16:47] <mr_pouit> +s
[16:47] <ochosi> ok :)
[16:47] <mr_pouit> (time to catch my train, bbl)
[16:47] <ochosi> ok, see ya
[16:48] <bluesabre> I pushed an update to the overlay.  For now, there is a new file that does system calls to xfconf-query to eliminate the bs4 dependency
[16:49] <bluesabre> though, there is probably a better solution still
[16:53] <ochosi> right, would be interesting to know what creates more overhead
[16:53] <ochosi> (or whether it doesn't matter much)
[16:58] <bluesabre> since I am using python, there's going to be some overhead no matter what.  I might look into putting it together with c/c++ or vala
[16:59] <bluesabre> but, one step at a time, right?
[16:59] <ochosi> sure thing :)
[17:00] <ochosi> no hurry, we still have until 12.10 feature-freeze ;)
[18:14] <ochosi> finally took on blackbird again. gaze in awe: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05102012-081421pm.php
[18:15] <bluesabre> What is this theme and where do I get it!?  :-D
[18:15] <ochosi> hehe
[18:16] <ochosi> this is blackbird, the dark variant of greybird that i've been secretly workin on in my cellar ;)
[18:16] <ochosi> no seriously, it's _very_ unfinished
[18:16] <bluesabre> looks really sharp
[18:16] <ochosi> ty
[18:16] <ochosi> just did the window-borders
[18:16] <ochosi> there's still a lot to do
[18:17] <bluesabre> think it might see the 12.10 release?
[18:17] <ochosi> well, i'm keeping fingers crossed
[18:17] <ochosi> but it depends
[18:17] <ochosi> last cycle a lot of things changed in gtk3 and in unico-engine
[18:17] <ochosi> so i had to work on greybird quite a bit
[18:17] <ochosi> because that should be flawless, since it's the defaul
[18:17] <ochosi> t
[18:17] <bluesabre> right
[18:17] <ochosi> unfortunately i'm quite alone on this
[18:18] <ochosi> would be great to have someone else help out with that
[18:18] <bluesabre> I suck at theming
[18:18] <ochosi> well to some extent it's mechanical and to some it's trial and error
[18:18] <ochosi> at least as soon as you know where you wanna go
[18:21] <baizon> ochosi: looking awesome :)
[18:21] <ochosi> baizon: ty :)
[18:22] <ochosi> k i'm off for now, bbl
[18:23] <bluesabre> seeya
[18:29] <Unit193> ochosi: Errr... I was waiting and keeping that in offtopic, except when asked what I used that time.
[19:55] <baizon> New LightDM theme <- are there precise plans?
[19:58] <Unit193> Pretzel you mean? (Q)
[20:03] <knome> here i am
[20:03] <Unit193> Dang, he's back. ;)
[20:03] <knome> ochosi, blackbird looks good. i'd probably rethink the window button contrast though
[20:04] <knome> ochosi, that complete-white could work as pressed-state though
[20:04] <SATop> blackbird ?
[20:04] <Unit193> Shimmer theme.
[20:04] <knome> referring to http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05102012-081421pm.php
[20:05] <knome> ochosi, i think black-and-white theme would be awesome. i mean, cut the colors on the theme to minimum, at most use some really light blue hues or so
[20:06] <SATop> i like white text on black theme with a blue color or something 
[20:07] <Unit193> This may only be for the weirdos and freaks (...me?)
[20:07] <knome> let's see what ochosi comes up with (and what i can convince him to come up with)
[20:07] <SATop> especcially for toolbars/panels
[20:07] <knome> Unit193, i wouldn't say so, but as long as dark themes have so many problems, they will most probably not be widely used
[20:24] <bramwelt> /wi/win 2
[20:24] <bramwelt> herp
[20:26] <baizon> derp
[21:03] <ochosi> ahoi everyone
[21:03] <ochosi> i'll be around in a few mins
[21:03] <knome> hey hey ochosi :)
[21:03] <ochosi> :)
[21:04] <ochosi> i think i'm slowly but surely figuring out how to make decent dark buttons in gtk2
[21:04] <knome> hehe
[21:04] <ochosi> Unit193: no worries, i'm reviving blackbird on my own terms (because i _want_ to and because i'm slowly starting to have a vision of what it could look like)
[21:04] <ochosi> bbiab
[21:05] <knome> np: a-ha / Take On Me
[21:05] <knome> ;)
[21:07] <Unit193> I can pull from git and "test" if I know what I'm looking for.
[21:08] <knome> Unit193, iirc, ochosi said there's something else to test with 4.8 too :)
[21:22] <Unit193> Hmmm, must hvae forgotten. :/
[21:23] <knome> Unit193, could've been on #shimmer too
[21:23]  * Unit193 isn't there, so wouldn't be a forgotten thing.
[21:24] <knome> yeah
[21:24] <knome> i'm guessing that's most probably what it was
[21:24] <knome> some testing for greybird
[22:11] <SATop> brainstormed, compiz expo and scale plugin ... in xfce/xubuntu without compiz itself
[22:25] <ochosi> i'm back, later than anticipated
[22:25] <knome> heh :)
[22:25] <ochosi> knome: yes, my most recent greybird-commit for the dark logout screen
[22:26] <ochosi> but in the meantime i'm rather sure it won't work with 4.8
[22:27] <ochosi> anyhoo, i'm not sure whether i want to tune down the contrasts too much with blackbird
[22:27] <ochosi> a smooth darkgrey theme that looks nice at the same time is kinda difficult
[22:28] <ochosi> i think i'll try something more contrasty first
[22:28] <knome> mmh.
[22:28] <knome> once you get most of the bugs fixed ;) i can try to play with the colors
[22:29] <ochosi> well bugs, i'm not even talking about bugs yet
[22:29] <ochosi> first i have to fix one widget after the other
[22:29] <ochosi> buttons are no.1 for now, they seem hardest and most important to me atm
[22:30] <ochosi> and i have to figure out a highlight-color
[22:30] <ochosi> i mean the selected_bg_color
[22:30] <ochosi> if you have ideas don't hold them back :P
[22:30] <knome> well bugs/getting everything to work at least somehow and set the basic style
[22:31] <knome> what if selected was *really dark* ?
[22:31] <ochosi> hmm, not 100% sure
[22:31] <knome> try it
[22:31] <ochosi> but the fact that this would mean not having real colours is tempting
[22:32] <knome> that was my idea ;)
[22:38] <ochosi> i'm already starting to feel better about the notebook-style: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05112012-123824am.php
[22:39] <knome> mmh
[22:39] <ochosi> think i'll continue with the window manager for a bit now
[22:39] <ochosi> there are still quite a few buttons missing
[22:39] <ochosi> and i'm not sure about the highlighted-state
[22:47] <ochosi> ok, first stab at active-inactive window-borders: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05112012-124714am.php
[22:48] <knome> yup
[22:49] <ochosi> subtle, but actually easily distinguishable
[22:49] <ochosi> at least in rl-testing
[22:55] <ochosi> the minimize button looks kinda fat atm
[22:55] <ochosi> but maybe that's not even the worst thing
[22:59] <ochosi> status quo: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05112012-125942am.php
[23:05] <ochosi> or better: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05112012-010452am.php
[23:08] <knome> what if the inactive window button icons were smaller? possible?
[23:10] <ochosi> sure
[23:10] <ochosi> but don't forget that you'll still sometimes want to hit them
[23:12] <ochosi> even if a window is not in the foreground, i sometimes tend to close or minimize them without wanting to bring them to the front first (because the buttons are too small to really handle them)
[23:12] <knome> i mean, not smaller smaller, just thinner looking
[23:12] <ochosi> hm, well, probably possible, depends on your skillset mostly :)
[23:13] <knome> you mean, *your* ?
[23:13] <knome> :)
[23:13] <ochosi> atm they're ~2px wide
[23:13] <ochosi> could start to look fuzzy at ~1px
[23:13] <ochosi> but maybe worth a try
[23:13] <knome> maybe... maybe not :)
[23:13] <ochosi> yup, not sure tbh :)
[23:15] <ochosi> i think widget-wise i'll fix next what annoys me the most
[23:15] <ochosi> so either the highlight-color, which is rather difficult, or the scrollbars
[23:16] <knome> mmh
[23:33] <ochosi> think the scrollbar-style is also slowly getting somewhere: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-05112012-013314am.php
[23:34] <Unit193> Yeah, that black thing is nice.
[23:47] <ochosi> okie, off for now, night everyone!
[23:48] <knome> night ochosi