[12:37] <Pici> updated !aptitude to mention multiarch issues.
[14:51] <IdleOne> oulu is a familiar nick
[14:53] <Myrtti> it's a city in Finland, probably where this person is from
[14:53] <Myrtti> judging from IP address
[14:53] <IdleOne> yeah, I meant more like the nick brings to mind bad feeling
[14:53] <Pici> IdleOne: you don't like Finland?
[14:53] <Myrtti> I've not seen it before
[14:54] <IdleOne> Pici: I have no dislike for any country. I also would like to visit finland at some point soon
[14:54] <Pici> IdleOne: I'm just joking :)
[14:54] <bazhang> helsinki is awesome
[14:54] <IdleOne> Pici: ino, me too :P
[14:55] <IdleOne> I read a friend is going to be moving there soon
[14:57] <IdleOne> We has logs for the UDS IRC session yesterday. I would like to see what horrible decisions were taken :)
[14:57] <IdleOne> ?
[15:02] <oCean> http://ubottu.com/uds-logs
[15:02] <tsimpson> also on irclogs.ubuntu.com
[15:02] <tsimpson> and audio on audio.ubuntu.com :)
[15:06] <IdleOne> it is a little confusing not having the audio and the text in sync
[15:13] <tsimpson> IdleOne: well, that very discussion takes place near the end of the session
[15:16] <IdleOne> tsimpson: sorry, which discussion?
[15:17] <tsimpson> about a better way to have all these things tied together
[15:17] <IdleOne> ah.
[15:17] <tsimpson> rather than having IRC + audio stream + pad, having it all in one place
[15:18] <IdleOne> that would be good. What about for replay after the fact though, would there be a way to listen/view the audio and text in sync?
[15:19] <tsimpson> I guess it would be possible, just probably non-trivial to implement
[15:19] <tsimpson> but AlanBell is the one to ask about that
[15:20] <AlanBell> I am?
[15:20] <IdleOne> you are now!
[15:20] <tsimpson> what's it called.. ether light?
[15:20] <IdleOne> you have been voluntold
[15:20] <AlanBell> yay
[15:20] <AlanBell> etherpad-lite
[15:20] <tsimpson> that one, yeah :)
[15:21] <IdleOne> basically we would need a video of the chat and etherpad with the audio track
[15:21] <AlanBell> audio and pad playback in sync, interesting idea
[15:22] <AlanBell> yeah, could be done
[15:22] <IdleOne> get on it!
[15:22] <tsimpson> I could see (in vague terms) that it could be possible, with HTML5 + JS one could connect the timing of the audio with timings of chat+edits
[15:22] <AlanBell> patches welcome
[15:22] <tsimpson> but, I'd not like to be the one to implement it
[15:22] <AlanBell> you don't need to connect the timings, just start at the same time and play in real time
[15:22] <IdleOne> AlanBell: I think canonical should get on the ball with this :)
[15:23] <tsimpson> AlanBell: well, I was also thinking about seeking
[15:23] <AlanBell> as long as you don't pause one of them
[15:23] <AlanBell> ah, seeking might be a challenge
[15:23] <tsimpson> meh, let's just write a flash applet :P
[15:23] <AlanBell> \o/
[15:23] <IdleOne> haha
[15:23] <Pici> flash :(
[15:24] <IdleOne> I'll be back before this banana hits the ground. ZOOOOM ZOOOOM ZOOOOOOOOOM.
[15:24] <AlanBell> audio.ubuntu.com is looking good this time
[15:25] <IdleOne> irc session is the 17:00 one right?
[15:27] <AlanBell> doesn't seem to be
[15:30] <AlanBell> http://audio.ubuntu.com/quantal/grand-ballroom-f/2012-05-10/11/grand-ballroom-f_2012-05-10_110001.ogg
[15:34] <AlanBell> there is a more detailed "etherpad-lite / OMG they are turning off IRC!!!/o\" session at 17:00 today, which is um, probably 01:00 UTC
[15:36] <tsimpson> should be 00:00 UTC
[15:38] <tsimpson> DST needs to go away, too much confusion in my head
[15:44] <bazhang> troll detected
[15:44] <bazhang> "sweetie"
[15:44] <Pici> yeah
[15:44] <Pici> Glad they're leaving.
[15:45] <AlanBell> thanks tsimpson
[16:57] <AlanBell> not at 17:00 it is at 16:15
[17:29] <jpds> http://is.gd/z9dg3z
[17:29] <jpds> This explains a lot.
[17:31] <IdleOne> jpds: WTF!!!
[17:33] <jpds> IdleOne: LOL: http://is.gd/ScjvI9
[17:37] <Pici> wow
[17:38] <IdleOne> that is not surprising though, many people are not very internet lingo savvy and use lol or wtf wrong
[17:38] <IdleOne> especially them old folks, like 40 year olds. that is old right?
[17:39] <IdleOne> by the way jpds I had no idea you felt this way. LOL to you too.
[17:42] <jpds> IdleOne: That was LOL haha.
[17:49] <Flannel> AlanBell: It's not "zomg theyre turning off IRC" it's "Why not integrate with IRC instead of supplanting it--that way people can still choose to use IRC if they desire"
[17:50] <Pici> Whats happening?
[17:51] <Flannel> Pici: I'm just replying to something from the scrollback
[18:57] <AlanBell> Flannel: yes, something like that
[18:57] <AlanBell> but we need people to make that happen, nobody has committed to putting in the effort on that task as yet
[19:35] <Flannel> AlanBell: of course, but it's a community-wide thing.  I'm not sure when the IRC Team became the guardians of UDS infrastructure; if we volunteered for it, I must've been absent that day.
[19:39] <IdleOne> agreed.
[19:40] <AlanBell> Flannel: well it is more me than the team
[19:41] <AlanBell> I presented etherpad 2 years ago at UDS for integration in summit and I wrote the meeting page bit of summit with the embedded pad
[19:48] <Flannel> AlanBell: Do you think etherpad development would've been better served with a separate meeting then?  Instead of trying to squeeze it into an IRC team meeting, give it its own title so interested parties can become involved.  As far as I can see, it wasn't even mentioned in the description of the IRC meetings.
[19:51] <guntbert> Hi hardworking ops  --  I'm still worrying about !clone. As aptitude is reported to not play nice with multiarch systems there seems to be a danger of damaging the "new" system. (but I have no idea at all how to accomplish the same without aptitude...)
[19:52] <IdleOne> thought pici added some info
[19:52] <IdleOne> !clone
[19:52] <IdleOne> !cloning
[19:53] <guntbert> !-cloning
[19:53] <Flannel> guntbert: What is a multiarch system?  I know what those words mean, but am not familiar with that term
[19:53] <IdleOne> !automate
[19:54] <IdleOne> Flannel: install ia32libs to 64 bit so you can install xchat-common:i386
[19:54] <guntbert> Flannel: as far as I understood ubuntu has done away with the 32bit/64bit separation, and therefore many packages are now suitable for both
[19:54] <IdleOne> so you can prefer 32bit app if you so chose
[19:55] <IdleOne> aiui
[19:55] <Flannel> That sounds like a horrible mess!
[19:56] <genii-around> Does the old way of dpkg --get-selections > file     .. dpkg --set-selections < file and then apt-get -u dselect-upgrade   still work?
[19:56] <IdleOne> genii-around: should
[19:57] <Pici> !aptitude
[19:57] <Flannel> IdleOne: will that have the same 32/64 problem?
[19:57] <IdleOne> Flannel: really don't know
[19:58] <Flannel> I'd rather stick with something with known problems instead of going to something with unknown problems :)
[19:58] <Flannel> since, as far as I know, the dpkg thing will still have the original issue of "now it thinks I explicitly want ALL these packages" instead of knowing what it brought in as a dependency, etc.
[19:58] <IdleOne> the devil you know...
[19:59] <jussi> doesnt the SW center now have some method of doing it?
[19:59] <IdleOne> it does
[19:59] <IdleOne> so did synaptic
[19:59] <jussi> so why dont we just describe that?
[19:59] <jussi> (for the clone factoid)
[20:00] <IdleOne> well, we should. cli purist will complain about the lack of cli command in the factoid
[20:00] <Flannel> Is that going to have the same multiarch problem?
[20:00] <IdleOne> that might be a good thing though if it is causing problems
[20:00] <Flannel> (also, it sounds like this needs to become a factoid pointing to a wiki page)
[20:01] <IdleOne> guntbert: you want to get on figuring the best way of doing this and editing the factoid?
[20:01] <Flannel> since it looks like we're going to wind up with multiple solutions, each of them imperfect in their own special way
[20:01] <IdleOne> or the best ways (plural)
[20:02] <guntbert> IdleOne: not really to be honest, my ability with apt & co is still, well very low
[20:02] <IdleOne> guntbert: can you provide the GUI way in Unity, or make a wiki page with screenshots?
[20:03]  * IdleOne is not running Unity
[20:04] <IdleOne> how hard is it to remember what apps you installed!
[20:04] <Tm_T> our guides should not use aptitude, but apt-get
[20:04] <guntbert> IdleOne: until now I didn't even know that there is a GUI way... -ah unity - I have it used just for a week after 11.10
[20:04] <Flannel> For the time being, lets add a warning to the factoid.  That way there's some sort of information about the potential for problems.
[20:04] <Tm_T> (if commandline tool is needed, that is)
[20:04] <IdleOne> Flannel: agreed.
[20:04] <Tm_T> Flannel: I would rather have it containing apt-get instead of aptitude
[20:05] <IdleOne> who has apt-fu to translate the aptitude command?
[20:05] <Flannel> Tm_T: well, dpkg had the "removes information" problem, so aptitude became the preferred method for this, because it worked.
[20:05] <Flannel> there is no apt-get command, it's dpkg.
[20:05] <Tm_T>  dpkg --get-selections > file     .. dpkg --set-selections < file and then apt-get -u dselect-upgrade
[20:05] <guntbert> IdleOne: apt-get has no "search" command
[20:05] <Tm_T> ah, yes
[20:05] <IdleOne> hmm
[20:05] <Tm_T> but anyway
[20:06] <IdleOne> back to providing a warning I guess
[20:06]  * Tm_T doesn't like unsupported package management tools
[20:06] <Tm_T> and I consider aptitude unsupported currently
[20:06] <Flannel> aptitude isn't unsupported, it's just not installed by default.
[20:07] <jussi> guntbert: apt-cache search
[20:08] <Tm_T> jussi: doesn't search by package state I think
[20:08] <Tm_T> gotta get some sleep, so good night (:
[20:08] <IdleOne> night Tm_T, sleep well
[20:08] <jussi> yeah, Im thinking similar. nini.
[20:08] <IdleOne> good night jussi
[20:09] <guntbert> apparently I cannot contribute to this discussion in a constructive way after igniting it - so I'll be on my way  :-)  have a nice time (and please edit !automate to point to !clone instead of !cloning)
[20:09] <guntbert> g'night
[20:10] <Flannel> !clone
[20:11] <Flannel> We still need to resolve it, but as a temporary warning....
[20:13] <AlanBell> Flannel: the etherpad thing does have a separate meeting, at 16:15 local time today. I also mentioned it at the end of the IRC meeting, and in more detail in the community round table and in quite a lot of other places
[20:13] <AlanBell> I didn't dedicate much time to it in the IRC team meeting, I think we talked about it in the 3 minute countdown
[20:14] <AlanBell> so that is 3 hours from now
[20:14] <Flannel> AlanBell: Ah yes, so it does.  I just heard you talking about it in the meeting yesterday, and apparently can't use my eyeballs.  I thought you were referring to the IRC meeting this morning.
[20:15] <AlanBell> no, the "IRC workshops" one today was about openweek and developer week