[00:00] <seiflotfy>  http://minus.com/m7ZarkzJM/
[00:00] <jbicha> pmatulis: Seif said that the Ubuntu One integration bug should be fixed
[00:00] <pmatulis> jbicha: ah thanks
[00:00] <pmatulis> bug number?
[00:01] <jbicha> pmatulis: follow up with seiflofty
[00:02] <pmatulis> jbicha: ty
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[16:04] <cprofitt> morning
[16:08] <SpamapS> Hey guys, I am listening in, and I am interested in this and can answer detailed Juju questions.
[16:09] <cprofitt> ok
[16:09] <cprofitt> we are not ignoring IRC
[16:09] <cprofitt> :-)
[16:12] <SpamapS> Those would all just be packages IMO.
[16:13] <SpamapS> <-- A gatekeeper for the juju charm store.
[16:14] <SpamapS> I have some ideas on how to build processes around gathering and catering these workflows, as I've been in charge of doing that with juju :)
[16:15]  * SpamapS is Clint Byrum FYI :)
[16:15] <SpamapS> OH NOT THAT GUY!
[16:15] <cprofitt> nice palindromic nick
[16:17] <SpamapS> So you basically have two things. You have workflows for apps, and you have information providers that abstract system details to make it easier to write the workflows.
[16:18] <SpamapS> Thats the subtle power of Juju for cloud/server apps is that the charms are super easy to write because you don't have to learn "the cloud".
[16:19] <SpamapS> I don't think juju itself is useful for this.
[16:19] <SpamapS> but the ideas from juju map well to this idea
[16:20]  * cprofitt agrees
[16:22] <SpamapS> GOOD NAME!
[16:22] <SpamapS> voodoo is the evil version of juju
[16:24] <SpamapS> have you thought about how to collect and distribute these "charmlings" ?
[16:26] <SpamapS> Make them easy to write and/or record.. #1 reason charms get people excited is that they are easy to write.
[16:26]  * cprofitt agrees
[16:26] <SpamapS> Guys I have to go listen to another session. Very interesting stuff!
[16:27] <SpamapS> ping me in here if you need me and I'll come back to this audio feed
[16:28] <SpamapS> I'm more talking about how to distribute and collect them from/to users not on the actual machine.
[16:28] <SpamapS> Like if user A has an awesome workflow.. you don't want to wait until the next release of Ubuntu to get that to users.
[16:29] <SpamapS> juju charms are ways to extend Ubuntu post-release
[16:29] <SpamapS> something 'official' is useful for the user trust and adoption
[16:29] <SpamapS> vudu ;)
[16:29] <SpamapS> ok I'm off the audio feed.. cheers!
[16:30] <cprofitt> k
[16:30] <cprofitt> thanks for coming SpamapS !!
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[18:18] <drussell> one other thing back to xorg... flicker free resume from suspend? (I see a bunch of virtual console spam on resume each and every time... sorry no bug filed yet but happy to demo to anyone interested ;o) )
[18:22] <RAOF> drussell: System compositor should fix that (although isn't strictly necessary); we just need to not VT switch on suspend.
[18:29] <drussell> RAOF: cool, is there an already existing bug I can subscribe to?
[18:31] <RAOF> drussell: Not that I can think of offhand, sorry.
[18:31] <drussell> RAOF: no worries
[18:42] <gua-uds> is there anything official (or 'officialish') about windicators? being a priority or not for 13.04, 13.10, etc
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[18:59] <jamespage> o/
[19:42] <cmagina> listening, no comments
[19:42] <cmagina> thanks
[19:43] <cmagina> you too brian
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[22:08] <dholbach>                                |_|   |_|
[22:09] <NMinker> greetings Daniel
[22:12] <dholbach> hey hey NMinker :)
[22:12]  * micahg waves from another room
[22:13] <micahg> I think overall we're doing a lot better with SRU/backport requests
[22:14] <micahg> Can we add lintian instructions to the packaging guide
[22:14] <micahg> that might catch quite a few things that a sponsor should flag
[22:15] <micahg> perhaps we can half a stripped down lintian profile for SRUs since quite a bit of stuff we wouldn't allow in an SRU
[22:15] <micahg> s/half/have/
[22:18] <micahg> can we get requestbackport to warn if source changes for build deps are required?
[22:19] <tumbleweed> micahg: hrm, seems doable
[22:19] <micahg> hmm, testing requirements for backports are much lower than SRU
[22:20] <broder> i think that's actually false in practice
[22:20] <broder> especially for anything with a reverse dep
[22:20] <broder> there's no explicit reverse dep testing for srus
[22:20] <micahg> yes, well, we generally don't allow invasive changes in an SRU either :)
[22:21] <ScottK> And I don't recall a case were builds/installs/runs wasn't sufficient (except in the case of rdepends)
[22:21] <micahg> right, usually bugs are found in the main archive version as well
[22:23] <SpamapS> o/ listening in now
[22:23]  * ScottK is just on IRC.
[22:24]  * micahg is also just on IRC
[22:24] <broder> ScottK: what's an example of when a backport went wrong?
[22:24] <ScottK> svn on hardy
[22:24] <ScottK> Tested a selection of rdepends and got totally screwed.
[22:24] <micahg> flashplugin-nonfree on hardy
[22:25] <ScottK> That one too.
[22:25] <ScottK> That's actually the one non-rdepend one I can think of.
[22:25] <ScottK> (I'd forgotten - painful memory)
[22:25] <broder> ScottK: discussion in-room is about relaxing the testing requirements since notautomatic is on
[22:25] <NMinker> ah, hardy, the first ubuntu i ever installed
[22:25] <broder> we can possibly be a bit less conservative
[22:26] <ScottK> I don't know what's less conservative than builds/installs/runs
[22:26] <micahg> broder: the issue is that NotAutomatic helps for rdepends in backports, not rdepends already in use on the system
[22:26] <broder> ScottK: b/i/r on r-deps
[22:26] <broder> the rdep testing is what's expensive
[22:27] <ScottK> What it means is some stuff won't get backported.
[22:27] <ScottK> I'm not sure how else to deal with it.
[22:27] <ScottK> The official rule was no library backports.
[22:28] <ScottK> We bent that via extensive testing.
[22:28] <ScottK> When we didn't do the testing, we've gotten burned.
[22:28] <ScottK> Not sure how to draw a line.
[22:28]  * broder nods
[22:29] <ScottK> OTOH, if someone in ubuntu-backports wants to accept the risk, I don't strongly object to that as long as they also accept responsibility for cleaning up resulting messes.
[22:29] <broder> ok. we're moving on to some other stuff; laney is going to follow up by mail
[22:29] <ScottK> K.
[22:30] <Laney> ahem.
[22:31] <SpamapS> I feel that I am humbled by archive admins :)
[22:31] <micahg> SpamapS: aren't you an archive admin?
[22:32] <SpamapS> micahg: not technically ;)
[22:32] <SpamapS> micahg: I need to finish my training
[22:32] <SpamapS> re SRU self verification.. I think it would be fine IF we make the burden of proof higher than "works for me!"
[22:34] <SpamapS> The 7 day backing period needs to be backed by popcon numbers if thats what we're goign to use.
[22:39] <SpamapS> Isn't the role of a sponsor to educate and enable, not to do the work?
[22:39] <ScottK> It's a balance.
[22:39] <ScottK> Make it too hard and they give up and go away.
[22:39] <micahg> right
[22:40] <ScottK> For the first upload, I don't care if their name in the changelog ends up being the only thing the didn't have to fix.
[22:41] <SpamapS> I like the idea of taking everything they've done, even if its not in the right place or format, and getting it into the archive.
[22:42] <SpamapS> I tend to draw the line at *creating* things like changelog entry or patch descriptions.
[22:42] <broder> ah, yeah, i disagree with that
[22:42] <micahg> right, usually we come back to over 100 after UDS
[22:42] <broder> i think we should not require people to care about ubuntu processes to fix ubuntu bugs
[22:43] <SpamapS> broder: agreed.. I will ask somebody "Can you describe the change?" or copy the change description from the bug description. I don't make them actually run 'dch' ;)
[22:43] <broder> ah, sure
[22:46] <SpamapS> Yes thats what I do.
[22:47] <micahg> maybe a bot poking after 2 weeks of no activity?
[22:47] <SpamapS> I don't think you lose something by taking it off the list and instruct the contributor "When you've resolved X, please re-subscribe sponsors" or "Please change it back to Needs Review"
[22:48] <micahg> well, if the person no longer wishes to work on it, it can go back to triaged
[22:48] <SpamapS> Though it would be nice if the *age* was not lost.
[22:50] <micahg> not always true
[22:52] <micahg> I'd suggest 1 hr increments for community people
[22:53] <micahg> 1hr is enough to sponsor 2-4 debdiffs or 1-2 merge proposals
[22:53] <micahg> right, this is for normal stuff :)
[22:54]  * micahg has a bad habit of that as well :)
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[22:55] <micahg> they close stuff other people leave open :)
[22:55] <SpamapS> They're just better than us
[22:55] <SpamapS> period
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[22:56] <micahg> umm, whoever uploads is taking responsibility for the upload
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[22:57] <micahg> depends on the bug I think
[22:58] <micahg> slangasek: I'd say anythiing that breaks the archive is the responsibility of the uploader
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[22:59] <bobweaver> I have new on the video stuff once the new ones are done if they get done :) The New Boston said that they will put it on there site . His python video have 288,000 hits and more on his other ones he said sure he would put them on his video tutorial collection
[23:00] <bobweaver> s|new|news
[23:01] <micahg> please don't break th archive on Friday at EOD :)
[23:03] <micahg> that's what the sponsorship queue is for, alternatively, ask the patch pilot in #ubuntu-devel
[23:05] <micahg> some patch pilots manage to do patch review as well
[23:20] <mpt> I'm not able to listen to this session (listening to another one), but one difficulty is having proxy setups to test with
[23:21] <mpt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center?field.searchtext=proxy has some examples
[23:21] <mpt> Several of them are incomplete just because of difficulty in reproducing the problem
[23:22] <cyphermox> mpt: we can take care of this, I guess
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