[00:07] Another productive friday is now since long flowing under the bridge [00:08] I hope the lake where we get the water from is not running dry === matias is now known as Guest58877 [02:08] ailo, holstein I can fix my xrun/minute problem without a reboot. [02:09] I tried a number of things... stopping netman made it worse. Though disabling and rebooting worked well. [02:11] sending many different commands to wpa_supplicant had no effect... there is a suspend command that seems to work temporarily for a few minutes. [02:12] in the end modprobe -r ath9k is what works. [02:13] Len-nb: By removing the driver than [02:13] It is certainly not a generic fix [02:13] But then the problem may be that driver. [02:14] I can reload the module and networking just starts working again. [02:16] Len-nb: Probably not your kind of music, but who knows http://infinitenihilationcode.com/ [02:16] ailo it seems that when the module is loaded it does nothing. [02:16] It's my band. Not really activve at the moment [02:17] Len-nb: But does it cause xruns when it is loaded? [02:17] I'm trying to figure out what "my kind" is :-) [02:18] The module can be loaded and untill NM is started there are no xruns. [02:18] That's a song I made a couple of hours before a rehersal just so we had something to record [02:18] It's a live recording [02:18] I'm on the "percussion" [02:19] Part playback, which is probably the first for me [02:21] Len-nb: btw, since English speaking natively, how does the name sound? Is it weird? [02:21] Since I'm not..* [02:22] It probably won't matter at this stage. We'll probably just go with it [02:23] The name works. There are lots stranger names. It is nice to hear music... don't get that on the radio... [02:24] We're mostly focused on improvisation and live performance. I suppose as a reaction against what has been popular the last years - studio sound [02:24] The commercial stuff is pretty much all elevator music, or vocal gymnastics. [02:25] I use puredata as the core for everything [02:25] I like live. Generally more MORish (whatever that is any more... I hated what used to be called MOR) [02:25] Not in this particular recording though [02:26] I like playing more than listening ;-) I can enjoy playing kinds of music I don't want to listen to. [02:26] How do you use PD on stage? [02:26] That's a common thing for me too. Jazz for example, I don't ever listen to. But it [02:26] But it's fun to play [02:27] I use pd as a instrument. Recently I've been working on a saving module. Next step will be loadable modules. I do everything with it [02:28] John Rigg's page has some good stuff on system setup, One of the samples he has on his site is a good example dynamic range. It is not overly compressed. [02:28] So you "play" PD with a KB? Or pads? [02:29] We're two musicians and one vocalist. Everything is passed through the computer and thus processable [02:30] All of us have controllers and we can all control whatever the programming lets us, which is determined by me at the moment [02:30] Midi controllers, audio triggers, to control audio, or midi. It's all pure data [02:30] ailo, so controllers can be whatever happens to put out midi and you can modified audio (miced) as well. [02:31] Whatever goes in can be processed as well as whatever goes out [02:31] By anything [02:31] Wow, sounds like more than three people. [02:31] That's the idea [02:31] The computer becomes a super-musician [02:32] Or supper sound man? [02:32] The song I linked is not a good example, and perhaps nothing will be for a while. [02:32] How much of your playing time is spent tweaking PD? [02:33] Or is it all preset? [02:33] pd is a programming language [02:33] But graphical [02:33] I spend far too little time with it [02:33] It's fast to use. Well performing [02:33] Perfect for multimedia [02:33] Or audio at least [02:34] So, do you use midi contollers to advance settings as well as input performance data? [02:34] There are "externals" for video too, but depending on what you want to do, other languages might be faster to work with [02:35] We use midi controllers quite a lot. 0-127 notes, 0-127 control values and such. What those control, is up to the programming [02:35] I would guess there needs to be a framework of sounds effects set up to improvise off of. [02:36] I'm setting up an environment that let's you load modules, and save them. Like sample players, midi interfaces, and so on [02:36] Since it's all live, you don't need to think linearly [02:36] All you need is stuff that you can trigger [02:37] So for each song you would have a setup you switch in or load? [02:37] YEah [02:37] Or do you have a standard set of things? [02:37] During song making, we use a program to load stuff, but when we play live, it's all loaded all the time, and we just switch between different setups [02:38] That's the plan anyway [02:38] I'm "just" a bass player in a band. I find out what I am playing 30 min before we start. [02:38] Sometimes I get chord charts so I don't have to watch the guitarists hands ;-) [02:40] holstein is "just" a bass player too [02:40] I played bass in a band once, but only because the singer was so great. He's the one doing the vocals on the track I linked to [02:40] We expect the audience to sing along... compared to holstein ... I really am "just" [02:41] I have a 5-string Yamaha [02:41] I play much better than I have a right to... figuring how much I practice. [02:41] Pretty bad, but at least I have a bass guitar when I need one [02:42] Len-nb: I'm sure you have the needed experience to make it swing :) [02:42] I have a fretted Rickenbacher and a squire I stripped the frets off. [02:43] I carry heavy stuff around for work all week, so I have been using the squire mostly because it is a lot lighter. [02:44] This is a band I've been adding keyboards to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAYQRmVwxhw [02:45] That recording is really bad :) [02:45] This is a song of mine I made for them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KjxHQHDFBc&feature=relmfuV [02:45] I play all the instruments [02:45] Except for the vocals [02:46] Did the mixing as well, all it sucks [02:46] My first love was Death Metal, so that's what I know the best, as a musician [02:48] We are mostly 3 people, some times we have a KB step in or the guitarists son will play drums. [02:49] Mostly two vocals, a guitar ands my bass. [02:49] For someone who doesn't like Death Metal, I suppose this it the best track for that band. We actually made a Spanish girl weep on one of our live gigs. Anyway, won't keep posting links after this one [02:49] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkoxmydFa6g&feature=relmfu [02:50] Len-nb: Is it a cover band? [02:50] And the song I posted last is not mine, but I did arrange the keyboards. [02:50] Church band. Some cover some of our own. Some just go where ever and impovise. [02:51] I used to play organ for a while [02:51] I was practicing for it when I was young and unemployed [02:52] Met the organist at our local church. He took me in at the time [02:52] I didn't pursue it as a career, but got a small insight into church music [02:52] We are more rocky than hymns. Not as heavy as some though. [02:53] Christian music as a whole has many of the same problems as secular. [02:53] Whatever makes your big toe stand up in your boot, as little Richard once said [02:54] He might have reffered to something else, I don't really know :) [02:54] The "saving grace" (pub intended) is lots of local music. each church has their own band. [02:54] Len-nb: Canada, or USA? [02:55] I like local, no hype, personal (dealing with the musician's life experience) kinds of music. [02:55] Canada, Vancouver Island [02:55] USA seems a lot more religious than any country in Europe, Italy included (the home of the Vvatican) [02:56] Is it the same in Canada? I always think of Canada as more of a liberal version of a north European country [02:57] I'm originally from Finland, btw. But I've lived in Sweden my whole life [02:58] I know some other people here are either from USA or Finland [02:58] The roots of a lot of Canadian immigrants (or north american) comes from people looking for a place they can worship freely. [02:59] It has become pretty formalized and conservative on one hand, or over sensationalized on the other (like a magic show or something) [02:59] I like Canada for the most part. Should come and visit soon [03:00] Most of that is just TV though. [03:00] All countries are weird in their own ways [03:00] Really weird [03:00] In both the US and Canada, I would say we are like outlaw Motor cyclists.... one percenters [03:01] Len-nb: You and your band? [03:01] For me it is a relationship with my maker. [03:02] I wish they set a rule for people in Hells Angles that they should not be allowed to call themselves that if they had not flown a fighter yet [03:02] After all, that's how Hells Angels was born [03:02] Our band is part of a church. We are pretty open about things. [03:02] What i meant was that there are about 1% North americans who are believers. [03:03] I don't have a problem with religion, but it's pretty seldom I hear anyone talking about it [03:03] less than 10% go to church at all.... any kind of faith. [03:03] My grandmother is the only one in the family. I did go to Sunday school, but that was mostly because of tradition. [03:04] The antis are very vocal.. we are quiet. [03:05] If it feels ok, it must be. That's how I like to sum it up :) [03:05] I guess I'm mostly towards Buddhism in that sense [03:05] One of our couples runs "Stepping stones" a home for women wishing to get out adictions.. so we have about half our crowd comes from there. [03:05] Don't like labels though. Never had [03:06] I don't like labels much either. [03:07] Though I guess you call what we do "Folk music" Something to sing together and enjoy each other's company with. [03:08] To me, almost everything is "folk music", just under all sorts of social categories [03:08] It's maybe part of the reason I haven't done to much recording. [03:08] Just about the onlu thing that isn't is the kind of music that is either meant to support another art form, or is strictly about music and nothing else [03:09] ailo, hear you, and agree. I guess I like to thin k it include audience particpation. [03:10] Len-nb: This is a g German composer, who spent a lot of time on very short pieces. His whole creation was not may hours long, maybe a couple. He got shot by an American soldier during the occupation of Germany. It's very mathematical http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBf2K4S4Nmk [03:10] Still thats just me. Music, is a form of communication. If it comes from the heart or says what is on the palyers mind it is valid [03:10] Sort of the dawn of music for only the sake of music, event though it of course existed long before [03:12] He's not extremely important from a historical point of view, but his music is interesting to have experienced [03:13] I deem Death Metal folk music, because folks go to the shows and "dance" to it [03:15] For me it would be something I hear in the background rather than play close attention to. (webern) but that my me with most orchestral stuff. [03:16] ailo, I can see that with the death metal. Might be hard for people to hear themselves sing anyway. [03:17] It probably takes a certain temperament to listen to this kind of stuff seriously. For most people, this kind of music only becomes alive when there's something visual to go with it, like movies [03:18] Or I've had too much media input... [03:20] I think if you like it you do. It's as simple as that [03:21] Some people have an issue with elitism, and stuff like that. I think, listen to what you like. And let others do the same. What else do you need to care about? [03:21] After all, which composer was ever an elite? Servants for someone. Like Mozart [03:22] And understanding their music begins by trying to understand history, and the people [03:23] If there's no interest, anything, whatever it is, will just be a poster with a label [03:23] Ya, my wife likes 50s and 60s radio stuff. like karaoke. Shes phlip. (most people not asian) [03:24] They all sing where she comes from. [03:24] People come over, it's magic mic time... [03:24] I likeall of it :). Stevie Wonder is a great favorite of mine [03:25] I have a particular song even, which is deeplu personal [03:25] Capenters works for her. It's funny, when I was young most of the music she likes would have been a chanel changer for me. [03:25] Don't know why. Even as a 12 year old boy I just loved this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBf2K4S4Nmk [03:27] To me, it's like something written by Mozart, tonally. Very simple, and beautiful. But then there's the lyrics too [03:27] But she takes her guitar and sings for older people at the hospital and it gives them peace and she comes home glowing. [03:28] Len-nb: What sort of songs does she sing? [03:28] A happy face already does a lot [03:28] Stuff that was popular when the people she sings for were younger [03:29] She will learn stuff they ask for. But it is mostly happy music. A lot of these people have dementia [03:29] I must have been black in my previous life. Rhythm is my nature! [03:29] is in* my nature [03:30] I'm not sure you sent the right link... [03:30] Not thinking about this track in particular, even though it also has some interesting changes. It's not only what happens in the course of one bar, but over the whole song [03:31] One such example is Michael Jackson [03:31] Its not stevie wonder anyway [03:32] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4tpuu-Up90&ob=av2e [03:33] It's a little lame, but it's also very rhythmical [03:33] Sort of like this, in a way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc [03:34] Since there's somethings that aren't easy to pick up [03:34] A Swedish band, btw [03:36] Len-nb: Right. This is the Stevie Wonder link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khN3MqgLJao [03:37] That's one song I couldn't have lived without [03:37] Wow, thats the first micheal jackson song thats not to bad... that I have heard. [03:37] Most of his stuff I don't like. [03:38] I would have guessed. You should like the Stevie song at least 50% [03:38] Listen to the lyrics, if nothing else [03:38] And the harmonica solo [03:39] Stevie wonder's stuff is not generally my style. but for some reason I have always liked most of wonder's suff. I think he sings wirth a lot of heart. [03:39] When I was a kid, it was all Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, George Michael, and such [03:40] Later I got into metal, and stuff like that [03:40] I think I would like wonder in concert too. [03:41] I liked metal before it got to be metal ;-) I turned 52 this week... [03:41] The best concert I ever went to was the first one. Gary Moore, Still got the blues. My dad took me there [03:41] I guess around 90 or so [03:42] I returned the favor a few years later with the Stones, but that was not really worht it [03:43] Len-nb: You mean like Black Sabbath? [03:43] I once saw the "rhythm aces" in the 70s It was good stuff. I liked ARS, lynyrd skynyrd [03:43] journey whenthey first came out 76ish. [03:44] More main stream than sabbath [03:44] Sort of like Van Halen [03:44] Ya, but less commercial.. [03:44] Positive energy [03:45] VH was 80s after the producers started to have a lot more control of things. I liked their early stuff before harrar sang though [03:45] Haggar [03:45] In a way, a lot of Metal I think is about that. It's about doing something, not being still. But then of course, there's a lot of controversy with lyrics and so on. [03:46] How about Def Leppard? [03:46] Funny, I liked some of sammy haggars stuff before that. [03:47] I haven't heard that much. the bit I heard was ok. But I didn't buy LPs/cds that much so I was limited to the radio. [03:47] Rhythmically, this a song that not everyone will get the point of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfOa1a8hYP8 [03:48] Especially with the way the chorus is laid out (or whatever it is) [03:49] Rhythm is not just about what happens in one bar [03:49] But what happens during the course of an entire song [03:51] That guy is good. [03:51] He's like a genious :P [03:51] You should listen to some of their records [03:51] Radiohead [03:52] What he is doing reminds me of my son... who dances like that. [03:52] Very simple stuff [03:52] Yeah? [03:53] You should send your son to some music conservatory right away [03:53] He has sensory problems slightly autistic. I don't think the guy in the video is thoough [03:53] He might be, to a degreee [03:53] Not perfectly "normal" anyway [03:54] They say people like Mozart and Beethoven were slightly so [03:54] Mark, could sing perfect pitch, timing, and with dynamics before he could talk. Hear a song one day and sing it the next. [03:54] I think I am, to a degree [03:54] My sisters sang songs at two [03:54] Not me though [03:54] He has lost all of it. Itb has been a long road to get him to sing at all any more. [03:54] But I was early too [03:55] I always liked music, I started drums at ten... never stopped playing something [03:56] I might have started playing earlier if I had the opportunity... but keyboards was not for me. [03:56] takes a certain kind of temperament to like it [03:57] The way they wanted to teach me kryboards was lots of whole notes.... really boring [03:57] I didn't start because of confusion. Didn't understand Swedish enough. No one saw it. But there was never anyone more talented than me [03:57] Takes a musician to spot one, I guess [03:58] In the town I grew up, probably not a single soul would have had anything to offer me anyway [03:58] One sister plays keys at home, the other plays sax. My oldest son plays sax [03:58] sax is a great instrument [03:58] The two of them sound completely different. [03:59] Angela plays sax like a french horn, Jeff likes swing and a harsher sound. [04:00] Girls, though you would not think it, are often more straight forward [04:00] Also, it takes time [04:01] Ja, lots of time... mine has been spread out over a lot of years. [04:02] Len-nb: You seem to be able to put a lot of work into something you find interesting [04:02] Something not everyone is able to do [04:03] Sometimes. my two younger kids take care of themselves. Wife is out. [04:04] I believe your dedication to finding out things, and testing already are invaluable to US, and will have a major impact on the distro as a whole if you keep going [04:05] testing is pretty important. I think a lot more people might help if they knew. [04:05] testing is not hard, just try things out. It can be a bit boring. [04:06] I do have some idea where to look for things on a system i guess. I know where the logs are. [04:07] Also, you are well educated on computers enough to find ot low level system solutions [04:07] I know how to read? [04:07] ;-) [04:08] I am mostly self taught [04:09] As am I, both when it comes to computers as well as music (spent a lot of hours in the library reading about music) [04:09] I had some teaching in 78 or so. Basic programing, pdp8 (8 bit) machine and 8080 code. [04:10] I realized no one had any answers to my questions, during High School, music major, so I went ahead and read about it mysle [04:10] You can't ask someone about Mozart, if he isn't Mozart [04:10] Too much info missing [04:11] Len-nb: Programming in 78. That's like when they invented programming at all? [04:11] c was 72 as was unix [04:12] At least C must not have been very old, or standardized by then [04:12] I learned all console and tape stuff though [04:13] I ran a BBS on an atari mega, then a 286 then a 386 with OS/2 [04:13] My first sequencing on a computer was with the atari. 16 chanels but 1024 tracks. [04:13] My mom got a Apple, con't remember the brand. It had 512kb RAM [04:14] really solid time wise. [04:14] An uncle used a modded Atari for internet at around 2000. I thoutght that was pretty cool [04:15] Friends had Commodore, Amiga [04:15] I never had one though [04:15] Did learn a bit of basic on my moms machine [04:16] She was learning to become a computer engineer for a little while until she realized that was nothing for her, and went towards teaching. She's pretty much running half of the school world now [04:17] I still have my uncles Atari. It can switch between two kinds. 512 adn 1024 I think, or if it was double [04:17] 93 I started using linux [04:18] Woo, that was early [04:18] yygdrsell or something like that... live cd even ... with x! [04:18] Crazy! [04:18] needed a floppy to boot [04:19] went to slackware soon after and made BBS software for that.... then internet got big and BBSs died. [04:20] I still have a 16 interface serial card around here somewhere [04:20] Cool as hell ;) [04:21] I only ever had two or three modems though. [04:23] Only... [04:23] Who had even one? [04:24] Remember a friend using his to call a friend [04:24] They did nothing useful, and I did not even realize it was important for another 15 years [04:27] When I was dating my wife I gave her an old dumb terminal with modem. We were able to do live chat. [04:28] hey... just like this :-) [04:28] Len-nb: That the way you turned her over? [04:28] I had had a horibble [04:28] Pretty romantic for the standard of the day [04:29] horrible first marriage and I wanted to really get to know her before things got mushy [04:29] we taked a lot. [04:29] talked. [04:30] things have been _much_ better [04:31] Seems to have worked out ok [04:31] Takes time to even learn oneself [04:32] anyway, She is home now and I should go and help get kids put away for the night [04:33] ailo, bye now [04:36] Len-nb: Later [05:54] I have move bug #671240 from inactive to confirmed and added my info. [05:54] Launchpad bug 671240 in linux (Ubuntu) "ath9k locks kernel in 10 ms, causing e g audio dropout" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/671240 [05:56] I suspect that the ath9k is a cheap chip that requires locking the cpu out just to work. I think the the answer is going to be documenting the quirk and the workaround. [05:59] good night === matias is now known as Guest57994 === madnick_ is now known as nadnick === nadnick is now known as madnick [15:31] ailo, do you know of an application that can split a midi stream into two (or more) channels based on note range? [15:32] zonage does that (part of the arpage tool) [15:33] Thanks. there is a user who could use it. I just missed him though. but I will take a look. [15:34] It sounds like something we should include in US [15:35] not in repo though [15:36] Ah, pre-alpha. [15:38] I have a package if you want to take a look [15:39] https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/ppa/+sourcepub/2274012/+listing-archive-extra [16:06] ailo, do you know if the specimen project is dead? There is a package (petri-foo) that claims to be a "successor of specimen". It is a fork. [16:09] ailo, (or anyone else) it appears we do not have a midi filtering package as part of US. The one falktx mentioned has conflicts with the normal US install... and is pre-alpha just yet. SO I have downloaded midish, qmidiroute and python-mididings to try out. [16:19] I suspect midish is not what we want. It is CLI we are GUI oriented. [16:21] and python-mididings though installed... I can't find either in the menu or on a terminal. I don't know what the executable is. Not very intuitive... [16:28] ailo, astraljava ScottL I would nominate qmidiroute to be included in US this round. It installs easy, runs easy, intuitive to use... I was easily able to split my dx7 keyboard to qsynth for two different sounds. [16:29] I can think of a number of places this functionality might be useful. [16:33] another use for me would be to change a drum sound from my ancient yamaha dd11 drumpads. Limiting parts of a keyboard velocity... actually what got this whole thing rolling. [16:37] On another note... could someone with a relatively new desktop do a: [16:37] cpufreq-info in a terminal? I want to see if cpu throttling is happening. [16:38] One of the files that starts up "ondemend" seems to check if the machine is a laptop or not. I want to see if that is true. [16:39] ondemand seems to get started twice. [16:40] You may have to install the cpufrequtils package to do so. [18:13] falktx, that package requires libs that conflict with my install [18:13] that is US 12.04 [18:14] I have suggested we add qmidiroute to 12.10 [18:15] I was able to split my dx7 easily with it and it is in repos and pulls in no new depends [18:16] len-dt: what conflicts? [18:16] The following packages have unmet dependencies: [18:16] libjack-jackd2-0 : Conflicts: libjack-0.116 [18:16] Conflicts: libjack0 but 1:0.121.0+svn4538-3ubuntu1 is to be installed [18:16] libjack0 : Conflicts: libjack-0.116 [18:17] I don't know if upgeading to the new package will hurt something else [18:19] I never got anything like that [18:20] how do I back track and find out what package uses libjack-0.116? [18:20] aptitude does that, but we don't have that installed. [18:21] just skip it [18:21] you can compile arpage manually [18:24] I would have to install some more stuff to do that too. [18:24] ./configure complains [18:25] I think I will wait telling a user they need to download and build something from source is not something I want to do. [18:26] If I am helping someone, I want to tell them the easiest thing possible. The person I was talking to was not even aware of the idea of note velocity. [18:28] falktx, thankyou for the idea though. I would like to see the project continue. [18:29] len-dt: I have quick solution for you, but not sure if you like it [18:29] len-dt: https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-team/+archive/ppa/ ;) [18:30] I wondered if it was from there ;) [18:35] falktx, how do I add it to apt? it seems to think there should be a word after that... like main or something... actually they show two words in their example [18:35] deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu precise main [18:36] don't do it that way [18:36] just use: [18:36] sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kxstudio-team/ppa [18:42] Wow, falktx it now wants to update a chunk of my system [18:44] I dio [18:44] *do [18:44] 12.04 is already outdated [18:46] applying. [18:47] I'm getting wine. but then I guess I had already installed it... [18:48] falktx, so this version of alsa includes the FW stuff? [18:48] make sure you're in the audio group! [18:48] alsa? huh [18:48] alsa != firewire [18:48] falktx, is that likely to change? [18:49] no idea what you are talking about [18:49] but now have to go [18:49] later [18:49] falktx, I had heard they were adding FW drivers to alsa. [18:49] I don't use fw [18:49] cya [18:49] bye [19:08] falktx, when you get back... how do I un-upgrade. a2j crashes now. [19:11] len-dt: un-upgrade?? [19:12] falktx, Ya, take all those upgrades you just had me out again... itbreaks too much [19:12] a2j is something I use a lot. [19:12] wtf? breaks too much? [19:12] what? [19:12] a2j doesn't work with the new jackd2 [19:12] it does, just reboot [19:13] len-dt: trust me, I've been using this system for 4 months now [19:13] I'll try cya [19:16] len-dt: btw, never run "a2jmidid", but use "a2j" instead [19:16] a2j -e [19:17] falktx, I was trying a2j_control as well. [19:18] That did the trick. they do work. [19:19] Are we planning on adding KXStudio bundle for 12.10? [19:20] no, they are distinct projects [19:21] falktx, I understand that, but I had the idea US may install some of the apps by default. [19:22] zonage works fine, but requires either midi raw or a2j -e to work. [19:22] len-dt: falktx's PPA is just that, a PPA. We will not ship anything in those directly. [19:23] len-dt: zonage is jack midi, so yes you need that [19:23] len-dt: And if you need to get rid of a PPA, there's that ppa-purge or something that is made for just that purpose. [19:23] astraljava, ok. so only if they end up in the debian and flow down to ubuntu repos. [19:24] astraljava, ya getting rid of the repo was not the problem. But thanks. [19:24] len-dt: The Debian step isn't necessary. It just needs to be in Ubuntu proper. [19:24] But it's of course preferable to get them to Debian first. [19:25] Ja, I figured something like that, but they would have to be to release stage first. [19:26] hmm, lv2 rack now starts ladi, is that new or something I missed? [19:27] len-dt: my packages support ladish completely, some that debian/ubuntu has missed [19:27] lv2rack/zynjacku is one of them [19:28] falktx, there is a difference between support and require :-) [19:28] remove all references to liblash then ;) [19:29] I'm not upset, just not to using ladi on a daily basis... or at all yet. [19:30] got it. I didn't know lv2rack would start ladish though, that's new to me [19:30] but if you remove all liblash* packages, it will start without ladish [19:32] ladi is a part of US though, I want to keep things reasonably stock [19:40] falktx, and I need to learn how to use it [19:56]