[08:58] morning [09:03] heya TheMue [09:03] Hi fwereade, had a good flight back? [09:03] TheMue, not bad, thanks; and yourself? [09:05] This time I've been able to sleep a lot a the flight back. That helped. Today it's almost normal, but I think I'll get tired early today. [09:06] But those safety controls suck, had three this time. Will next time try to have a different flight with only one stop. [09:24] TheMue, heh, I totally haven't adjusted, I started at 4am this morning ;p [09:24] Uuuh, a bit early. [10:35] fwereade, TheMue: morning! [10:35] (just) [10:35] * wrtp just slept for 14 hours straight. [10:35] wrtp: Yo' man. [10:36] wrtp: Hehe, fwereade started 4am this morning. [10:36] moin. [10:36] Aram: hiya [10:36] TheMue: i think he probably had *some* sleep the night before :-) [10:37] wrtp: I slept a lot during flight and so slept from 11pm to 7am this morning. We'll see when I get tired again. [10:37] Aram: Moin. [10:38] TheMue: i didn't sleep at all in the flight. managed to do a little translator into a packet filter language, but didn't actually get it working quite. [10:38] wrtp: I've yesterday not been able to concentrate on anything. [10:38] TheMue: i came up with the neatest use for defer that i've yet found. [10:41] heya wrtp [10:42] fwereade: how's tricks? [10:42] wrtp, not too bad, my body still thinks it's in the wrong place [10:43] fwereade: not sure how my technique of almost no sleep for days beforehand and then lots of sleep now will work for body-clock adjustment. experiment still in progress! [10:43] wrtp: what use of defer did you find? [10:43] wrtp, not really sleeping on the flight and going to bed slightly early really didn't work at all for me [10:50] Aram: some code for generating virtual machine instructions. until you've generated the instructions, you don't know the destination for forward jumps. i use defer to do the late patching for me. here's some of the code (see the emit function) http://paste.ubuntu.com/986981/ [10:51] ah yes, this seems a really great use case. [10:52] Aram: it won't work if i start generating jump instructions inside subroutines though. [10:54] heh, yes, still. [11:15] lunchtime [11:17] TheMue: you're running ubuntu in a VM, right? [11:17] oh, darn, too late [11:17] i discovered i could crash my machine with one echo statement [11:18] echo /dev/*/tun* [11:18] don't try it unless you don't care about an instant kernel panic [11:19] interesting. === TheMue_ is now known as TheMue [12:14] Hmm, strange, losing connection very often today. [12:32] Hello everybody! [12:33] Welcome back home to those that were at UDS. :) [12:34] hi. [12:36] niemeyer, heyhey [12:36] Hey folks [12:37] niemeyer, how's it going? [12:37] fwereade: Wonderfully [12:37] niemeyer, awesomd :D [12:38] fwereade: Good trip home, all worked out nicely, had a great rest, and glad to be back in action now too :) [12:39] niemeyer, jolly good :) [12:40] niemeyer, I'm a touch messed up on my sleep still so it'll be my EOD very soon [12:40] niemeyer, I was going to take a quick look at the review queue first and gently remind you that I'm waiting for 4 of my own when yu get a moment ;) [12:41] fwereade: Thanks for the reminder [12:41] fwereade: My day is a bit messed up by pending stuff too, but I definitely have all those reviews close to the top of my list [12:42] niemeyer, cool [12:42] niemeyer, btw, I was wondering what your thoughts were on caching stuff in the local provider [12:43] fwereade: Hmm [12:43] fwereade: How do you mena? [12:43] mean [12:43] niemeyer, I have the impression you're -1 on released binaries; does this imply the same for charm-store charms? [12:43] fwereade: Sorry, I'm a bit out of context [12:44] fwereade: What was I -1 about again? [12:44] niemeyer, putting the jujud etc binaries into provider storage when they're the released versions that can be got from a canonical place [12:45] niemeyer, this is secondhand, perhaps via wrtp; I may have misunderstood [12:46] fwereade: Ah, yeah, I think it was partially misunderstood in one of the hops [12:46] niemeyer, my own heart says that we should stick everything in provider storage and always get it from the same place (with likely-to-be-lower bandwidth costs) [12:47] niemeyer, the disadvantage is that if we do it naively we round-trip through the user's machine [12:47] fwereade: My original idea around that was to indeed allow uploading released binaries, but only when --upload-tools is used [12:47] niemeyer: the question was whether we should always copy the juju tools binaries into local provider storage AFAIR [12:47] niemeyer: hi BTW! [12:47] wrtp: Heya! [12:47] wrtp: Ah, yes, for that my vote is -1.. [12:47] niemeyer: thought so [12:47] niemeyer: so why aren't charms the same? [12:48] niemeyer, ok, the followup: does that imply that charm-store charms should also not be copied into provider storage? [12:49] niemeyer, we've always done it so far; but that may just be an artifact of not having had a charm store until very recently [12:49] fwereade: It's a great question [12:49] fwereade: and I suspect we may end up with similar answers for both [12:49] fwereade: which look unlike what we have right now in both cases [12:49] niemeyer, yeah, it feels like fundamentally the same question [12:50] fwereade: The issues is this: [12:50] fwereade: Downloading several MB from S3 to stick back onto S3 sounds quite silly [12:51] fwereade: Even more considering we may have to download several different versions, depending on which constrains we're satisfying [12:51] fwereade: There's also the issue that the environment stands on itself [12:51] fwereade: We may not be around by the time the environment decides to fire a machine for which we didn't yet upload the respective binaries [12:52] fwereade: I think the ultimate goal would be to indeed cache binaries locally onto the environment, but have it so that the *environment* is able to do that by itself [12:52] fwereade: and this sounds like a sane approach both for the toolset and for the charms [12:53] fwereade: In edge cases, such as with --upload-tools, we'll continue to upload though [12:53] niemeyer, cool, avoiding the round-trip sounds like a good thing to me [12:54] niemeyer, the question becomes relevant because I'm looking at juju deploy and thinking I have no reason to download cs: charms at all [12:55] niemeyer, because I can get the SHA256 and the bundle URL from the store anyway [12:55] fwereade: Right, that's indeed the original intention [12:55] fwereade: We didn't do that because it was cheap [12:55] fwereade: (to just continue to do the same) [12:56] niemeyer, ok, great, I'll do what's definitely needed for cs: charms to begin with, and defer the caching for now [12:57] fwereade: Sounds good [12:59] mthaddon: ping [13:06] niemeyer, fwereade, TheMue: i'm going to take the afternoon off as half swap day, if that's ok. [13:06] wrtp: Absolutely [13:06] wrtp, fine by me [13:07] wrtp: Understandable. [13:07] thanks. i'll see y'all tomorrow! [13:08] wrtp: Have a good one [13:08] fwereade, TheMue: Please feel free to do the same and take some good rest today.. we need fresh brains! 8) [13:09] niemeyer, I'm still confused what time it is; woke up fresh as a daisy at 3 and started at 4, so I consider my day kinda over already ;) [13:09] niemeyer, I'm just picking up what easy reviews I can now [13:09] fwereade: Woah [13:10] fwereade: Indeed.. this has the sound of a great afternoon nap [13:10] niemeyer, yeah, I'm feeling it a bit now [13:10] niemeyer: I'm currently fixing a local mail prob. Afterwards I want at least to finish the tests after the latest refactorings William and I discussed last week. [13:11] niemeyer: But I'll be offline from Wednesday to Sunday. [13:11] TheMue: Super [13:12] niemeyer: The changes for relations and endpoints really feel better. More simple. [13:15] * TheMue this morning discovered that there's a plugin for his editor to directly jump into Godoc/GoPkgDoc. [13:28] TheMue: Sweet [13:29] TheMue: I tend to use the web page.. I really like the formatting and all [13:29] niemeyer: Yes, so do I. And this plugin tells Firefox to open a browser tab there. [13:30] I guess in acme one might come up with a plumbing rule that invokes either go doc or the browser. [13:30] might try it at some point. [13:32] TheMue: Yeah, I imagined this was the case since GoPkgDoc only works in a web browser [13:33] Aram: Indeed [13:34] niemeyer: A nice HTML rendering in an editor tab would be fine too. But that doesn't work. [14:20] andrewsmedina: Heya [14:41] niemeyer: everything ok? [14:41] andrewsmedina: Yeah, all good [14:41] andrewsmedina: Back at home after two intense weeks [14:45] hi [14:53] fsouza: Hey! Bye! [15:12] fsouza: Heya [15:12] Lunch time here [15:12] Back in ~1h [16:46] mthaddon: ping [19:39] Stepping out for a doc appointment.. back later [21:08] * niemeyer respawns [21:52] * davechen1y waves [21:58] davechen1y: Heya [21:59] davechen1y: Will pick Ale up.. back in a few minutes [23:45] protip: bzr remove-branch doens't do what I it did [23:45] afk: breakfast