[08:58] <TheMue> morning
[09:03] <fwereade> heya TheMue
[09:03] <TheMue> Hi fwereade, had a good flight back?
[09:03] <fwereade> TheMue, not bad, thanks; and yourself?
[09:05] <TheMue> This time I've been able to sleep a lot a the flight back. That helped. Today it's almost normal, but I think I'll get tired early today.
[09:06] <TheMue> But those safety controls suck, had three this time. Will next time try to have a different flight with only one stop.
[09:24] <fwereade> TheMue, heh, I totally haven't adjusted, I started at 4am this morning ;p
[09:24] <TheMue> Uuuh, a bit early.
[10:35] <wrtp> fwereade, TheMue: morning!
[10:35] <wrtp> (just)
[10:35]  * wrtp just slept for 14 hours straight.
[10:35] <TheMue> wrtp: Yo' man.
[10:36] <TheMue> wrtp: Hehe, fwereade started 4am this morning.
[10:36] <Aram> moin.
[10:36] <wrtp> Aram: hiya
[10:36] <wrtp> TheMue: i think he probably had *some* sleep the night before :-)
[10:37] <TheMue> wrtp: I slept a lot during flight and so slept from 11pm to 7am this morning. We'll see when I get tired again.
[10:37] <TheMue> Aram: Moin.
[10:38] <wrtp> TheMue: i didn't sleep at all in the flight. managed to do a little translator into a packet filter language, but didn't actually get it working quite.
[10:38] <TheMue> wrtp: I've yesterday not been able to concentrate on anything.
[10:38] <wrtp> TheMue: i came up with the neatest use for defer that i've yet found.
[10:41] <fwereade> heya wrtp
[10:42] <wrtp> fwereade: how's tricks?
[10:42] <fwereade> wrtp, not too bad, my body still thinks it's in the wrong place
[10:43] <wrtp> fwereade: not sure how my technique of almost no sleep for days beforehand and then lots of sleep now will work for body-clock adjustment. experiment still in progress!
[10:43] <Aram> wrtp: what use of defer did you find?
[10:43] <fwereade> wrtp, not really sleeping on the flight and going to bed slightly early really didn't work at all for me
[10:50] <wrtp> Aram: some code for generating virtual machine instructions. until you've generated the instructions, you don't know the destination for forward jumps. i use defer to do the late patching for me. here's some of the code (see the emit function) http://paste.ubuntu.com/986981/
[10:51] <Aram> ah yes, this seems a really great use case.
[10:52] <wrtp> Aram: it won't work if i start generating jump instructions inside subroutines though.
[10:54] <Aram> heh, yes, still.
[11:15] <TheMue> lunchtime
[11:17] <wrtp> TheMue: you're running ubuntu in a VM, right?
[11:17] <wrtp> oh, darn, too late
[11:17] <wrtp> i discovered i could crash my machine with one echo statement
[11:18] <wrtp> echo /dev/*/tun*
[11:18] <wrtp> don't try it unless you don't care about an instant kernel panic
[11:19] <Aram> interesting.
[12:14] <TheMue> Hmm, strange, losing connection very often today.
[12:32] <niemeyer> Hello everybody!
[12:33] <niemeyer> Welcome back home to those that were at UDS. :)
[12:34] <Aram> hi.
[12:36] <fwereade> niemeyer, heyhey
[12:36] <niemeyer> Hey folks
[12:37] <fwereade> niemeyer, how's it going?
[12:37] <niemeyer> fwereade: Wonderfully
[12:37] <fwereade> niemeyer, awesomd :D
[12:38] <niemeyer> fwereade: Good trip home, all worked out nicely, had a great rest, and glad to be back in action now too :)
[12:39] <fwereade> niemeyer, jolly good :)
[12:40] <fwereade> niemeyer, I'm a touch messed up on my sleep still so it'll be my EOD very soon
[12:40] <fwereade> niemeyer, I was going to take a quick look at the review queue first and gently remind you that I'm waiting for 4 of my own when yu get a moment ;)
[12:41] <niemeyer> fwereade: Thanks for the reminder
[12:41] <niemeyer> fwereade: My day is a bit messed up by pending stuff too, but I definitely have all those reviews close to the top of my list
[12:42] <fwereade> niemeyer, cool
[12:42] <fwereade> niemeyer, btw, I was wondering what your thoughts were on caching stuff in the local provider
[12:43] <niemeyer> fwereade: Hmm
[12:43] <niemeyer> fwereade: How do you mena?
[12:43] <niemeyer> mean
[12:43] <fwereade> niemeyer, I have the impression you're -1 on released binaries; does this imply the same for charm-store charms?
[12:43] <niemeyer> fwereade: Sorry, I'm a bit out of context
[12:44] <niemeyer> fwereade: What was I -1 about again?
[12:44] <fwereade> niemeyer, putting the jujud etc binaries into provider storage when they're the released versions that can be got from a canonical place
[12:45] <fwereade> niemeyer, this is secondhand, perhaps via wrtp; I may have misunderstood
[12:46] <niemeyer> fwereade: Ah, yeah, I think it was partially misunderstood in one of the hops
[12:46] <fwereade> niemeyer, my own heart says that we should stick everything in provider storage and always get it from the same place (with likely-to-be-lower bandwidth costs)
[12:47] <fwereade> niemeyer, the disadvantage is that if we do it naively we round-trip through the user's machine
[12:47] <niemeyer> fwereade: My original idea around that was to indeed allow uploading released binaries, but only when --upload-tools is used
[12:47] <wrtp> niemeyer: the question was whether we should always copy the juju tools binaries into local provider storage AFAIR
[12:47] <wrtp> niemeyer: hi BTW!
[12:47] <niemeyer> wrtp: Heya!
[12:47] <niemeyer> wrtp: Ah, yes, for that my vote is -1..
[12:47] <wrtp> niemeyer: thought so
[12:47] <wrtp> niemeyer: so why aren't charms the same?
[12:48] <fwereade> niemeyer, ok, the followup: does that imply that charm-store charms should also not be copied into provider storage?
[12:49] <fwereade> niemeyer, we've always done it so far; but that may just be an artifact of not having had a charm store until very recently
[12:49] <niemeyer> fwereade: It's a great question
[12:49] <niemeyer> fwereade: and I suspect we may end up with similar answers for both
[12:49] <niemeyer> fwereade: which look unlike what we have right now in both cases
[12:49] <fwereade> niemeyer, yeah, it feels like fundamentally the same question
[12:50] <niemeyer> fwereade: The issues is this:
[12:50] <niemeyer> fwereade: Downloading several MB from S3 to stick back onto S3 sounds quite silly
[12:51] <niemeyer> fwereade: Even more considering we may have to download several different versions, depending on which constrains we're satisfying
[12:51] <niemeyer> fwereade: There's also the issue that the environment stands on itself
[12:51] <niemeyer> fwereade: We may not be around by the time the environment decides to fire a machine for which we didn't yet upload the respective binaries
[12:52] <niemeyer> fwereade: I think the ultimate goal would be to indeed cache binaries locally onto the environment, but have it so that the *environment* is able to do that by itself
[12:52] <niemeyer> fwereade: and this sounds like a sane approach both for the toolset and for the charms
[12:53] <niemeyer> fwereade: In edge cases, such as with --upload-tools, we'll continue to upload though
[12:53] <fwereade> niemeyer, cool, avoiding the round-trip sounds like a good thing to me
[12:54] <fwereade> niemeyer, the question becomes relevant because I'm looking at juju deploy and thinking I have no reason to download cs: charms at all
[12:55] <fwereade> niemeyer, because I can get the SHA256 and the bundle URL from the store anyway
[12:55] <niemeyer> fwereade: Right, that's indeed the original intention
[12:55] <niemeyer> fwereade: We didn't do that because it was cheap
[12:55] <niemeyer> fwereade: (to just continue to do the same)
[12:56] <fwereade> niemeyer, ok, great, I'll do what's definitely needed for cs: charms to begin with, and defer the caching for now
[12:57] <niemeyer> fwereade: Sounds good
[12:59] <niemeyer> mthaddon: ping
[13:06] <wrtp> niemeyer, fwereade, TheMue: i'm going to take the afternoon off as half swap day, if that's ok.
[13:06] <niemeyer> wrtp: Absolutely
[13:06] <fwereade> wrtp, fine by me
[13:07] <TheMue> wrtp: Understandable.
[13:07] <wrtp> thanks. i'll see y'all tomorrow!
[13:08] <niemeyer> wrtp: Have a good one
[13:08] <niemeyer> fwereade, TheMue: Please feel free to do the same and take some good rest today.. we need fresh brains! 8)
[13:09] <fwereade> niemeyer, I'm still confused what time it is; woke up fresh as a daisy at 3 and started at 4, so I consider my day kinda over already ;)
[13:09] <fwereade> niemeyer, I'm just picking up what easy reviews I can now
[13:09] <niemeyer> fwereade: Woah
[13:10] <niemeyer> fwereade: Indeed.. this has the sound of a great afternoon nap
[13:10] <fwereade> niemeyer, yeah, I'm feeling it a bit now
[13:10] <TheMue> niemeyer: I'm currently fixing a local mail prob. Afterwards I want at least to finish the tests after the latest refactorings William and I discussed last week.
[13:11] <TheMue> niemeyer: But I'll be offline from Wednesday to Sunday.
[13:11] <niemeyer> TheMue: Super
[13:12] <TheMue> niemeyer: The changes for relations and endpoints really feel better. More simple.
[13:15]  * TheMue this morning discovered that there's a plugin for his editor to directly jump into Godoc/GoPkgDoc.
[13:28] <niemeyer> TheMue: Sweet
[13:29] <niemeyer> TheMue: I tend to use the web page.. I really like the formatting and all
[13:29] <TheMue> niemeyer: Yes, so do I. And this plugin tells Firefox to open a browser tab there.
[13:30] <Aram> I guess in acme one might come up with a plumbing rule that invokes either go doc or the browser.
[13:30] <Aram> might try it at some point.
[13:32] <niemeyer> TheMue: Yeah, I imagined this was the case since GoPkgDoc only works in a web browser
[13:33] <niemeyer> Aram: Indeed
[13:34] <TheMue> niemeyer: A nice HTML rendering in an editor tab would be fine too. But that doesn't work.
[14:20] <niemeyer> andrewsmedina: Heya
[14:41] <andrewsmedina> niemeyer: everything ok?
[14:41] <niemeyer> andrewsmedina: Yeah, all good
[14:41] <niemeyer> andrewsmedina: Back at home after two intense weeks
[14:45] <fsouza> hi
[14:53] <niemeyer> fsouza: Hey! Bye!
[15:12] <niemeyer> fsouza: Heya
[15:12] <niemeyer> Lunch time here
[15:12] <niemeyer> Back in ~1h
[16:46] <niemeyer> mthaddon: ping
[19:39] <niemeyer> Stepping out for a doc appointment.. back later
[21:08]  * niemeyer respawns
[21:52]  * davechen1y waves
[21:58] <niemeyer> davechen1y: Heya
[21:59] <niemeyer> davechen1y: Will pick Ale up.. back in a few minutes
[23:45] <davecheney> protip: bzr remove-branch doens't do what I it did
[23:45] <davecheney> afk: breakfast