[00:09] And, when I make a mistake, it's nice to be able to go back and just run a script to re-make the show. [10:38] hah https://twitter.com/#!/isaiah/status/201815165744848897 [10:38] and morning [11:44] Good Morning [11:45] morn [11:56] How are things in the world of rick? [11:56] You might like this :D http://shirt.woot.com/ [11:57] ok here, just busy. [11:58] That is a good thing [11:58] Did you know: Joan of ArcA survey reported that 12% of Americans think that Joan of Arc was Noah's wife. [11:59] I'll file that one under my general assumption that at least 75% of the work population is dump as bricks [11:59] dumb that is [12:00] see that I fit into that 75% please [12:00] or they said it because it's funny [12:00] see the original point [12:01] lol [12:06] :P [12:48] I have heard that when dealing with linux you need to pick gnome or KED. Is this true with ubuntu? (there seems to be no option) [12:49] wolflarson: so Ubuntu ships with "Unity" by default for you to use [12:49] which is based on top of many Gnome technologies [12:49] it's meant to be easy for new users and not give them unnecessary decisions to make, but if you're a fan of kde you can try it out as well, just more work [12:51] oh i am new and so not a fan of ether, just something i read [12:51] wolflarson: yea, I'd not worry about it then and just start with the out of the box experience [12:51] ok thank you [12:52] try all 3 and see which you like best [12:52] unity, gnome3, kde [12:53] bah, if you're new just get your feet wet before window manager hopping imo [12:53] there's enough adjustment/learning to start with [12:53] i seem to have an issue when i partitioned my HD C:\ is no longer my primary partition, how bad is this? [12:57] linux doesn't use drive letters [12:58] are you trying to preserve an old windows install, or blow it away and install linux? [13:00] keep my win 7 because i have only tried the demo and i am not sure how useful it will be [13:01] i created a 10 GB partition and formatted it ntfs but now my C:\ is a "healthy" partition and not the primary one [13:01] i haven't actually done a side by side install, but i think the ubun tu installer does the partition stuff for you [13:01] oh ... [13:02] so delete the partition? [13:02] i don't know [13:02] i don't have win7 [13:02] ok well i just finised downloading the iso so i will see how it goes [13:02] if your data ended up on the new partition, you shouldn't delete it [13:03] it is not it seems to be empty of all data [13:04] but i don't know how to put it back in to the C partition [13:04] if linux does not use drive letters what does it use? [13:08] mount points [13:09] your "C" drive is kind of like "/" [13:09] your CD-ROM will be at something like /media/cdrom [13:09] what else will be in media? would / be like root? [13:10] yes, / is root [13:11] on windows you have c:\documents and settings\wolflarson\ for your personal stuff, on linux that will be /home/wolflarson [13:12] so would cards be in / too? /cards/wireless and the NIC ? [13:12] nope, hardware devices are in /dev [13:13] so there's actually a /dev/cdrom too [13:14] ah ok and USB is there too? [13:14] right [13:14] thank you for explaining that [13:15] well this hours over next class :) [13:31] rick_h_: what's your pyohio talk? [13:32] brousch: http://paste.mitechie.com/show/663/ is my little abstract submissions [13:33] wow, nice! [13:33] just kind of a general "if you're going an app/library you have no excuse for not having docs/tests/package on pypi" [13:33] i like how the description is web framework agnostic [13:33] so try to show how an hour's work can make all that happen and using free services/automation [13:33] yea, think I'll just do something wsgiref or basic. The idea is not the app, but the stuff around the app [13:33] right [13:33] just need something to do hello world via gunicorn on heroku [13:34] that's the idea at least, not written yet, and two things on the list I've not used/done before [13:34] so it fits the bill on talking about something you can learn a bit about as well [13:35] rick_h_: I'm totally there. [13:35] snap-l: yea, figure worst case I'll be able to say I told you guys this stuff when I package up your github repo next time :P [13:35] but hard to think of topic ideas this year [13:36] rick_h_: When and where is this going to be? This is what I need to do, correct? With getting me set up on github and getting my projects started? [13:36] shakes808: this will be at PyOhio end of July [13:36] see pyohio.org [13:36] (as long as it's accepted) [13:37] shakes808: and yea, that's the idea, it'll be an intense beginner talk I think since it's not going to require deep code knowledge [13:37] i'm sure it will be [13:37] but hopefully it'll poke a few more advanced users/expose some new tools/things as well [13:37] so good for all ages! :) [13:38] :( I have my son that weekend, I won't be able to go. [13:38] how old? bring him along :) [13:38] 6 [13:38] lol [13:38] I'm trying to talk my little brother into coming down with me this year [13:38] ah, gotcha [13:38] His eyes will glaze over [13:38] well they are recorded as well [13:39] They have been in the past [13:39] yea, I took my wife/1yr old a couple of years ago [13:39] it was ok, but nothing really great for the little ones [13:39] my son: "What the fuck dad? Why am I here? Is there a Wii to play with?" [13:39] I wouldn't take my boy either [13:39] lol [13:39] rick_h_: You sure you're not thinking of codemash? [13:40] snap-l: yea, remember when erica came down and hung out with jodee, was michael not around yet? [13:40] maybe he wasn't [13:40] sorry, all blurs [13:40] I think I would have remembered that. :) [13:40] codemash rocked for the little one, my wife asked me to submit another talk for this next year [13:40] so yea, shakes808 put codemash on your calendar and get the boy, good times [13:42] rick_h_: you roomed with me 2 years ago. i have no recollection of an infant [13:42] I have 6 running VMs on my machine [13:42] this is awesome. [13:43] brousch: ok, so yea it was pre-boy I guess. [13:43] I know one year the wife came down, was ok but nothing grand [13:43] snap-l: lol [13:43] brousch: Wasn't it more than two years? [13:43] snap-l: is this the work desktop? [13:43] pyohio 2010 [13:43] rick_h_: codemash is next year lol [13:43] rick_h_: Yeah, home machine only has 8gb [13:43] shakes808: yea, in Jan [13:44] snap-l: heh, yea I got special ram/etc consideration when I got that machine [13:44] it had more ram and larger drives than everyone else :) [13:44] rick_h_: Thank you. [13:44] make buddies with those guys, pays off :) [13:44] How much is it? [13:44] 16GB [13:44] and laugh at their jokes about Diana and her screw driver [13:44] rick_h_: I love our IT folks here. [13:45] They make things work. I like that. [13:47] also, the fact that our firewall isn't like Chrysler's firewall makes me very happy. [13:47] yea, they're pretty good about that part [13:48] but I think the built in bandwidth caps don't help :P [13:48] Yeah, I think there's some funky QoS [13:48] but I'd rather have funky QoS than half of the network blocked [13:49] esp when you're looking for information on running Windows on Linux, and get flagged for a prohibited search (Alcohol) [14:18] rick_h_: how old is your brother now? I remember one time you brought him to lightning talks or python group he was just a kid [14:18] jrwren: 21 [14:19] awe, they grow up so quick. [14:19] how he is doing? [14:19] he started school at northern in Jan and tring to find out what to do so figured coming to PyOhio might be fun/exposure to some texch stuff [14:21] ah, very cool. [14:21] i really should go to pyOhio. I still feel python incompetent. [14:22] it's a great small conf [14:42] jrwren: You should go to PyOhio [14:42] Wash some of that .net stink off you. [14:44] omg, that reminds me [14:45] at tedxgr some random people joined me at a table. they were from a local dev shop or something. all they could talk about was sharepoint [14:45] "if you ever need sharepoint help or development, come see us!" [14:46] somehow i suppressed remarks about hot pokers in inappropriate places [15:16] snap-l: i haven't done .net since Nov. [15:16] how long does it take to get the stink off? [15:16] jrwren: 2 versions? [15:16] :P [15:16] hahaha, shit at the turtle pace of .net, its gonna be a while. [15:19] And you can't replace the stink of .net with Java. [15:19] It's like trying to improve the smell of a latrine by taking a dump in it [15:24] well, depends on teh stink, if you do mono and not .net then its all lilacs and lillies [15:25] no matter how I try to convince her, JoDee assures me I cannot shit lilacs and lillies. [15:25] hah, until you blog about it and the OSS zealots get a hold of you :P [15:26] I eagerly await the FSF's reversal on Java. [15:26] Especially considering the vitriol over mono that frankly hasn't panned out. [15:30] snap-l: you shit what you eat [15:30] The virtiol over Mono was over patents, the current drama with Java currently is about something of which isn't even copyrightable [15:30] and if it is found to be copyrightable [15:30] And patents [15:30] dear god help us all [15:30] Remember, the other shoe hasn't dropped on that yet. [15:31] But yet, Sun made Java GPL, so it's all good. [15:31] except when it isn't. [15:31] If API are found to be copyrightable the copyright status of every implementation will have to reasssed [15:32] I mean, Mono is... wait... LGPL / GPL / X11 licensed. [15:32] Also software patents will become useless [15:32] As long as there is a buck to be made, software patents won't go away anytime soon [15:33] Why patent something when instead you can implement it any any similar implementation will become copyrightable by you without any involvement of a patent office [15:34] Milyardo: Because it makes look and feel lawsuits so much easier. [15:34] copyright doesn't cover that angle [15:35] Yes it does with the exansion of this copyright in this case [15:36] SSO does include how software in presented [15:37] i'm afraid not [15:37] and api are not copyrightable in general. [15:37] BSD ATT case decided that long ago [15:37] this case is about some specific api copyrights, not the general case. [15:37] so even if oracle wins, it will not effect other software [15:37] wine will be fine [15:38] jrwren: we hope [15:38] yes, we hope. [15:38] and even if a judge goes nuts (which happens often in federal courts located in CA) there will still be mixed legal precidense [15:38] precedence [15:38] I can see this judge navigating a tight line, but if Oracle gets their way, expect other software manufacturers to follow [15:39] and carefully ape whatever made pay-dirt for Oracle [15:39] they can try, but its also very expensive to try [15:40] say you go for wine or mono, who are you going to sue? no one has money of any significance there. [15:40] nor marketshare. [15:40] you would spend millions of dollars just to shut some people down with no financial gain. [15:47] so far the judge doesn't seem a complete moron [15:47] so I'm holding out hope, but I'm definitely not feeling that Google is 100% in the clear [17:39] How many gamers do we have? [17:39] 42? [17:39] lol [17:39] Define gamer [17:39] I'm more "old school" gaming. :) [17:39] Mancala FTW! [17:39] A person who plays games. [17:40] MANCALA!!!! Hell yeah. lol [17:40] little stones moving from divit to divit [17:40] lol [17:40] I would be referring, of course, to video (PC) games [17:41] More modern games, then? [17:42] Yes, sir [17:42] We run Linux. There will be no more modern games here. :) [17:42] TuxRacer For LIFE [17:42] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tux_Racer [17:43] I will have to check if there is a linux ver of it, but my buddy just turned me on to this game League of Legends. It is an RTS type. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Legends [17:43] Was wondering if anyone would want to try it out [17:43] You are a hero and lvl up and what not [17:44] it is FTP of course. [17:44] Free-To-Play [17:44] I think it's Windows only [17:45] but working under Wine [17:45] there is a download. Would anyone be interested in trying it out? I have played a few matches the last couple of nights and seems pretty fun [17:45] and by working, I mean there's a forum posting out there on the net that purports to have working instructions [17:46] and speaking of games snap-l, how is your game coming along? [17:46] DNF [17:47] Unfortunately I got mid-way through and realized it wasn't going to be much of a game without some more effort [17:47] http://www.wildfiregames.com/0ad/ [17:47] snap-l: so that just means you're doing pymonth right? :) [17:48] Heh [17:48] I might finish it, but right now I'm working on other stuff [17:48] like last night I finished moving OMC to archive.org [17:48] What game is that? [17:48] nice [17:48] 0AD is a RTS [17:49] Do you play that one? [17:49] I've loaded it. Haven't played much of it [17:49] We've played some freeciv in the past [17:49] Also: http://www.xonotic.org/ [17:50] The 0AD looks like Age of Empires [17:50] Yeah, it's very similar. [17:50] or Total War series [17:51] One of the games that I want/in the making is http://www.tribalwars.net [17:51] it is a text based rts [17:52] I've been looking for a good RTS game, since I switched from Windows and cant play Company of Heroes. [17:53] My plans for my RTS is to start off text based and then when it gets to a certain point start making it to a graphics game. [17:53] Very nice., [17:53] Gotta start somewhere [17:53] I was a big FPS person, then a friend got me into the RTS. [17:53] Absolutely. [17:54] FPS's are fun but get too repeatitive [17:54] Yeah, I played FPS for over 10 years in leagues...i'm just burnt out from them now. [17:54] RTS's can be too, but the strategy can change and what not [17:54] nice [17:54] And now that I'm on Ubuntu 100%, not much to game on here. [17:55] That is one reason why I kept my Win7 alive, but just barely lol [17:55] I like to play games and not much for linux [17:55] Yeah my Wife's laptop took a crap so I had to throw my Win 7 on her laptop, so just went straight Ubuntu. [17:56] Gotchya. What a good husband lol [17:57] I shoulda put Ubuntu on it and said "Sorry, all I had" [17:58] lol [17:58] That is what I would do [17:58] lol [17:58] http://www.wesnoth.org/ [17:58] I was considering givving that a try snap-l [17:58] I've played the single-player tutorials of this for a while [17:58] It's pretty fun [17:59] gotta love it, start a django project and syntastic lights up on every file ootb [18:01] freeciv [18:01] rick_h_: Are you going to be at CHC Wednesday? [18:01] shakes808: yea, afaik [18:02] is it a good thing that syntastic lights up? [18:02] brousch: no, it means that pyflakes/pep8 are tossing out errors on the default files [18:02] which basically means the devs aren't using these tools I suppose... [18:02] alright cool :D I am going to try to get the github stuff going and mess around with that. Could you help me out if I am having troubles? [18:02] which makes me die a little inside [18:02] pep8 is beneath django [18:02] Anyone from southeastern area? [18:02] shakes808: which github stuff? [18:03] JonEdney: most of us are [18:03] I was thinking about starting to come to the get togethers and stuff, but I'm still an ubuntu noob. [18:04] I think I have it set up. I am going through the site and looking at what I need to do. I haven't uploaded anyting or messed with actual GitHub. [18:04] shakes808: ah ok so just making sure your remote is setup right and you can git push ? [18:04] I am below noob of Ubuntu. [18:04] yes [18:04] :D [18:04] lol shakes808 [18:04] shakes808: gotcha, k [18:05] JonEdney: Didn't you come to CHC? [18:05] yea, np, github has instrucitons for that stuff that's pretty good but can be there to hold the life vest in case you jump off the ship [18:05] No I didnt snap-l [18:05] Ah, I thought you had. [18:05] I have a buddy that does this stuff as well and I am going to see if he can start some test files and I am going to do the same and see how going back and forth onthe different projects work and versioning works [18:06] rick_h_: lol thanks [18:06] I'm going to have to check it out, they are every wednesday? [18:11] JonEdney: yes: http://coffeehousecode.appspot.com/locations/detroit.html [18:12] rick_h_: Yeah, why is it Detroit when it really is Royal Oak? [18:12] shakes808: because originally there was only an AA one [18:12] and I was starting "Detroit" one because everyone can place Detroit [18:13] Alcoholics Anon? [18:13] Ann Arbor [18:13] Ann Arbor [18:13] they were the original [18:13] Gotchya [18:13] how was I to know people would start others years later? :P [18:13] and actually be down-river [18:13] HA HA [18:13] but now I've got 3+ years of posting/twitter/etc with CHC Detroit in it :/ [18:14] I mentioned CHC to a buddy and he was confused too lol [18:14] bah, I guess I should rename, but it's our second location so hate getting too specific [18:14] Always have an announcement for changing it from Detroit to Royal Oak due to stoopid people like me that get confused lol [18:14] but the url would have to change, etc ugh [18:15] lol All this work lol [18:15] Yeah, I'm in Westland, so close to all of them except Lansing, neat. [18:15] JonEdney: you are almost in the middle of them all lol [18:16] wtf...call from a firm in TX, an out of the blue email from some recruiter I've never heard of...people quit trying to make me change jobs [18:16] rick_h_: Yeah, I've gotten calls like that. [18:17] Especially if you're on linkedin or one of these other pro sites [18:17] seems like a flood today. Evidently I posted something somewhere bad [18:17] Also think I get some from Google Searches. [18:17] rick_h_: You're just awesome, and everyone wants a slice. [18:17] oh and the repeat google email [18:17] rick_h_: must be your pyohio talk [18:17] brousch: ++ [18:18] heh, "I might speak!" "ooooh, that's quality stuff!" [18:19] only the elite speak at pyohio [18:19] brousch would know, Mr Elite! [18:20] the animated gifs you use, the more elite you are [18:20] so i kick your ass [18:21] i don't have any good talk ideas [18:21] doh! [18:22] i had that build your own web framework idea, but haven't done anything with it [18:26] ok, I'm all for having coding standards, but making it up as you go isn't going to cut it [18:26] gotta start somewhere! [18:26] *sigh* [18:28] i hate codeing standards. [18:28] teh standard should be "does the code work?" if yes, its good [18:28] heh, not going to go there [18:29] if not, its bad :) [18:29] i'm j/k of course. [18:29] but I find most impl of coding stanards are too ridgid [18:30] well when you've got a `make lint` command that rnus for that stuff...it should either follow/not [18:30] yup [18:37] oh good grief, he's pilling our 2yr old diffs of the style guide doc on me [18:55] greg-g: so..as a baised yet still hater on unity...the first answer is: "Gnome 3 developers have dropped this from gnome-control-center with a recommendation that it be repackaged and available as a separate application." [18:55] greg-g: so how is that unity's fault? [18:56] I honestly think a good number of things that Unity gets kicked about are a direct result of Gnome 3-isms [18:57] well sounds like the app got split, messed up, not packaged, etc...but I don't get how any of it is Unity's fault [18:57] unless I'm mis-understanding I guess [18:57] rick_h_: I thought it was "it would show up in the systray, but only if you run this incantation specific to Unity" [18:58] rick_h_: I mean, it works fine for my buddy on gnome-shell [18:58] greg-g: ok, so the issue isn't that the app went away/need backports/etc [18:58] brb, conf call [18:58] it's the systray bit then [18:58] * greg-g nods [20:00] ouch, someone just got done reading some books and went off http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla [20:06] he had an amazeballs brain [20:25] You all have a good day [20:41] great, the week after I pay my money to NewsBlur, the site goes unresponsive :( [20:42] That's how it works. [20:42] CHC is like 45 minutes from me here in Westland, but I'm gonna try to check it out this week. [21:03] rick_h_: Trust me, there's a lot of Tesla fans out there. [21:13] <_stink_> i love this Tesla comic. [21:14] snap-l: "Your music compatibility is: VERY LOW" :( [21:15] greg-g: I haven't scrobbled anything with this new account [21:15] oh, weird [21:15] finally broke down and re-regiatered. [21:15] the text version of the email from last.fm said that, but the website says "unknown" [21:15] had an account a while back that I deleted. [21:15] I sense a bug in their html->plain text conversion [21:17] Before I was pissed off with CBS, but quite frankly, I want them to hear what I'm listening to now. :) [21:18] ie: not them. :) [21:19] heh [21:54] * krondor is still bitter about last.fm