[00:00] <infinity> TypoNAM: THere is in -proposed.
[00:18] <TypoNAM> infinity: I'm compiling gdbserver myself at this moment :P
[01:07] <infinity> TypoNAM: Installing the one from proposed seems like less effort, but okay.
[01:07] <infinity> (I was going to pomote it to updates anyway)
[14:29] <hallenberg> where can I find more information about how the preinstalled images are created?
[14:31] <hallenberg> specifically what arguments are passed when configuring live-build
[14:32] <ogra_> they are built using live-build from the archive ... whereas the configs for live-build live in the livecd-rootfs package
[14:33] <ogra_> (note that this only applies to the content of the rootfs partition indeed)
[14:36] <hallenberg> ogra_: thanks, I'll see if I find what I'm looking for there!
[16:50] <ndec> ogra_: hi! so it's really the end of Unity2D?
[16:53] <TypoNAM> oh I hope not, the regular one is very buggy
[16:55] <ogra_> ndec, well, not immediately, for now its just that all development is stopped for 2D
[16:55] <ogra_> eventually it will vanish though
[16:56] <ogra_> TypoNAM, make sure to file bugs so the remaining ARM specific issues can be fixed ;)
[16:57] <ndec> ogra_: so in 12.10 what would be the non 3D options for ARM?
[16:58] <ndec> i mean compiz won't be any better on pandaboard than it is now...
[16:58] <ogra_> llvmpipe
[16:58] <ndec> i don't think we should encourage people to use compiz on pb..
[16:58] <TypoNAM> as soon as I install PowerVR SGX drivers and enable them, unity becomes unstable, redraw problems, and missing the control box, title bar, and borders on all non-maximized windows
[16:58] <ndec> TypoNAM: yeah... with compiz i guess?
[16:58] <ogra_> TypoNAM, right, file bugs please
[16:58] <ndec> ogra_: that does not sound too good...
[16:59] <ogra_> the compiz in precise-updates works very well fo rme on a tegra2
[16:59] <ndec> as you can imagine, i mostly care about omap...
[16:59] <ogra_> admittedly the unity plugins have issues though ... but different ones than on pamda
[16:59] <ogra_> *panda
[16:59] <ndec> compiz will not work fine on 4430/4460. ever.
[16:59] <ogra_> why not ?
[17:00] <ndec> it's a hw limitation, in the GFX core.
[17:00] <ogra_> the gles2 code just went upstream
[17:00] <ogra_> so it should be possible to enhance the quality
[17:00] <TypoNAM> ndec: what kind of hardware limitations? :P
[17:00] <ndec> 4470 and OMAP5 is a different story. but I don't see us focusing on compiz in the next 6 months...
[17:01] <ndec> the SGX MMU is limited to 256Mb, which leaves ~160Mb of memory for overal texture.
[17:01] <ndec> so at some point you will reach that limit.
[17:01] <TypoNAM> interesting
[17:02] <ndec> if you open several terminal/windows you should see that. it would either display black (best case) or just crash (more realistic)
[17:02] <TypoNAM> is there any documentation you can reference that states that and other things I should be aware of? I'm currently working with a pandaboard ES
[17:02] <ndec> but ogra_ the point is that we will not have any product with compiz or llvmpipe on OMAP. so this is the first time we have a so big divergence...
[17:03] <ndec> TypoNAM: you should ping robclark he would know the gory details better than me.
[17:04] <ogra_> ndec, well, it was a sabdfl verdict to drop 2D i think
[17:04] <ogra_> talk to him
[17:04] <ndec> hehe
[17:04] <ogra_> i'm not thrilled either and would have done it the complete other way round
[17:05] <ndec> what's the impact on ubuntu-tv, btw?
[17:05] <ndec> it's too using QT/QML.
[17:05] <ogra_> its a prototype
[17:05] <ogra_> not a product
[17:05] <ogra_> the product will be 3D
[17:05] <ogra_> same for the phone stuff
[17:05] <ndec> the phone stuff?
[17:05] <ndec> but again, 3D if it's wayland, it's a different story...
[17:06] <ogra_> and apparentlxy the assumprion is that we can "just" use the android drivers without issues
[17:06] <ndec> i doubt it honestly.
[17:06] <ogra_> me too
[17:06] <ndec> the android drivers have intrinsics dependencies on android display driver, which is very different from a standard linux drm/kms display driver.
[17:07] <ogra_> but then who am i, i only got 4 years of arm experience ... nobody bothered to ask me :P
[17:07] <ndec> i think you need to be 5 years exp to be considered ;-)
[17:07] <ogra_> heh, yeah, likely
[17:07] <ndec> no seriously, this is a problem.
[17:08] <ogra_> well, tallk to the arm team ... oh, wait ... there is none ...
[17:09] <ogra_> i seriously think the only person to talk to about it (and to convince) is sabdfl
[17:09] <ndec> we are killing ubuntu/omap with that decision, at least for the compiz stuff.
[17:09] <ogra_> we dont have anyone making arm specific decisions in that ragard in the distro anymore
[17:11] <ndec> ok. thx. will think through that...
[17:11] <ndec> for now, i am heading home ;-)
[17:11] <NekoXP> it might kick the TI guys into gear on proper drivers at least ;)
[17:12] <NekoXP> or more likely kick the Unity guys into gear wrt making it work properly on ARM..
[17:13] <ndec> sure... i know we have problems with our gfx drivers..
[17:13] <ndec> but it might be a little too early to make such a drastic change ...
[17:13] <NekoXP> at least you only need a different gear. Freescale need to build a whole new freeway
[17:13] <ndec> what that means is that if we aren't ready in 6 months, ubuntu won't work fine on OMAP
[17:14] <ndec> we have our 'new' gfx stack based on the new drm/kms driver that we are actively working, we haven't tried compiz on this one. hopefully that gets us closer...
[17:20] <NekoXP> we're kind of stalling here on gem-dma-buf-prime-cma things all going in. it doesn't seem prudent to do any work at all since it'd just need to get totally rewritten anyway. when you're pulling a graphics stack apart at the roots to port it to DRM anyway, you'd only want to do that once
[17:46] <rsalveti> ndec: ogra_: well, I expect unity 2d to be available for some time still, just not with new features
[17:46] <rsalveti> and the impression I got was that this was also a decision to focus on fixing the remaining issues with compiz and the 3d version
[17:47] <rsalveti> I know there's an issue with the sgx core for panda, but there are a few ways to workaround it I believe
[17:48] <rsalveti> I know llvmpipe is not ideal either, but would be nice to check how it will work and perform on arm
[17:49] <rsalveti> ndec: for ubuntu tv I know they will use nux at least
[17:50] <rsalveti> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20338/community-q-ubuntu-tv-involvement/
[17:50] <rsalveti> I just don't know how related it will be with compiz
[17:50] <rsalveti> unless compiz is fixed and improved a lot over the next few months that'll be a problem to support
[17:50] <rsalveti> on arm specifically