[00:36] <dogmatic69> any way to rm ./ -<only_symlinks>
[00:43] <dogmatic69> rm `find ./ -type l`
[00:49] <directhex> find . -type l -exec rm -f {} \;
[06:03] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Accomplishing An Awesome App Developer Platform - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/15/accomplishing-an-awesome-app-developer-platform/
[06:37] <Knightwise> Morning everyone
[07:00] <Nafallo> morning
[07:02] <popey>  /25
[07:02] <popey> bah!
[07:02] <popey> (morning)
[07:04] <Nafallo> popey: /script load go.pl
[07:05] <DJones> Morning all
[07:23] <DJones> AlanBell: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/15/punjab_ubuntu_free_laptops_students/ 125,000 free laptops being given out with a further 300,000 planned for 2013
[07:31] <daubers> Morning
[07:32] <Knightwise> hey daubers
[07:32] <Knightwise> how are you today
[07:35] <TOShrun> morning from the head office of Libertus Solutions ;-)
[07:36] <daubers> Knightwise: Almost awake!
[07:37] <daubers> TOShrun: Got interwebs now?
[07:37] <daubers> Knightwise: How goes things?
[07:38] <Knightwise> doing well, just landed a ubuntu legend for tomorrows interview on knightwise.com :)
[07:38] <daubers> Cool :)
[07:40] <DJones> I don't know why, when somebody is described as a "Legend", my brain always see's it as "Leg End" and makes me think of somebody who's less than useful :)
[07:40] <TOShrun> daubers: We haz fast interwebs... ~75Mbps/4Mbps
[07:40] <Knightwise> DJones: i beg to differ :p and so does popey
[07:40] <DJones> Heh
[07:45] <hoover> morning all
[07:45] <daubers> TOShrun: FTTC?
[07:46] <TOShrun> Infinity I believe
[07:46] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:46] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:47] <TOShrun> Unity has just decided to reset my monitor displays to 640x480. And I can't find the launcher - jeez I really am getting fed up with it.
[07:47] <diplo> Morning all
[07:48] <TOShrun> great - unity --replace hasn't fixed it. better log out and back in again. *&%(Y&*&&*^*(Y
[07:49] <popey> its not unity --replace
[07:49] <popey> it's unity --reset
[07:50] <popey> AlanBell: tell him
[07:50] <popey> 08:49:54 < popey> its not unity --replace
[07:50] <popey> 08:49:57 < popey> it's unity --reset
[07:50] <popey> 08:50:00 < popey> AlanBell: tell him
[07:50] <popey> and it's unlikely it was unity which changed the resolution
[07:50] <TOShrun> gah - it shouldn't happen
[07:50] <popey> possibly compiz, but also unlikely
[07:50] <TOShrun> Something broke.
[07:50] <popey> what sequence of events led to that?
[07:51] <popey> plugging external monitor in?
[07:51] <TOShrun> I moved a window from one screen to the other
[07:51] <popey> what video card?
[07:51] <TOShrun> internal icore3
[07:51] <TOShrun> laptop model
[07:56] <popey> got your ~/.xsession-errors and/or /var/log/Xorg.0* handy?
[07:57] <TOShrun> hang on a mo.
[07:59] <TOShrun> I have popey. Where would you like them?
[08:01] <popey> pastebin or something?
[08:01] <TOShrun> OK hang on.
[08:02]  * TOShrun installs pastebinit
[08:04] <TOShrun> Xorg: http://paste.ubuntu.com/988534/
[08:04] <TOShrun> xsession http://paste.ubuntu.com/988535/
[08:06] <ali1234> yep, it's definitely messed up
[08:06] <TOShrun> lol
[08:26] <oimon> wha's the shortcut to lock the screen in the newest ubuntu?
[08:28] <TOShrun> Can I completely separate two monitors in Unity - so that when I move around my 4 workspaces on one screen it doesn't move around on the other monitor at the same time?
[08:28] <Azelphur> oimon: is it not ctrl+alt+L?
[08:28] <Azelphur> TOShrun: yes, what GPU do you have?
[08:28] <oimon> Azelphur, yes, it is thanks
[08:28] <TOShrun> just a intel internal Core i3 jobby
[08:29] <oimon> (took a long time to happen, but it did in the end)
[08:29] <TOShrun> on my laptop
[08:29] <Azelphur> TOShrun: ah, not sure how to do it on Intel, you can do it in xorg.conf if there are no GUI options, you are looking for separate X screens though
[08:29] <Azelphur> separate X screens are totally separate, you can't even drag windows between them
[08:30] <ali1234> separate workspaces like you want are (would be) part of compiz
[08:31] <Azelphur> ali1234: lies? compiz doesn't support xinerama workspaces
[08:31] <TOShrun> I tried what seemed like the right sounding setting yesterday but it didn't seem to have any effect.
[08:31] <ali1234> xinerama is irrelevant
[08:31] <ali1234> workspaces are provided by the window manager
[08:31] <ali1234> compiz can't do what you want, but it is because compiz sucks
[08:31] <JamesTait> Good morning, everyone! :D
[08:32] <Azelphur> ali1234: afaik it needs input redirection :P
[08:32] <ali1234> gnome shell is a little bit closer like you want... you only get workspaces on the primary monitor and all the others effectively have 1 workspace that never changes
[08:32] <Azelphur> ali1234: rofl that sounds terrible
[08:32] <ali1234> yes, it is
[08:32] <ali1234> however, it is closer to what some people want than what compiz does
[08:32] <TOShrun> hmm. ok thanks for the input. Guess it is a no then.
[08:32] <Azelphur> TOShrun: only advice I have for you is separate X screens, I use separate X screens myself so I know it's the answer to your question, just dunno how to do it on anything but nvidia :P
[08:33] <TOShrun> ok
[08:33] <TOShrun> ty
[08:33] <ali1234> seperate X screens is the worst of the lot. as mentioned, you cannot move windowws between monitors if you do that
[08:33] <Azelphur> ^ that + a lot of applications are buggy
[08:33] <ali1234> again, workspace management has nothing to do with X, it is a window manager function
[08:34] <ali1234> if window manager does not provide it the way you want, blame window manager :/
[08:34] <Azelphur> oh yea, you could find a window manager that supports it properly
[08:34] <ali1234> yeah
[08:34] <Azelphur> I may be in need of one myself sometime soon
[08:34] <ali1234> i don't know of any that actually do it
[08:35] <ali1234> gnome shell is probably the closest
[08:35] <ali1234> kwin probably does it, it does everything
[08:37] <Azelphur> superuser.com says There are a number of tiling WMs which will do this (Awesome3, scrotwm, Xmonad, probably dwm and wmii), and you can configure a *box (Open/Flux) to do this. Not aware of a way to do it in KDE or GNOME, at least not easily.
[08:37] <Azelphur> o.O
[08:37] <ali1234> also keyboard short cut to lock screen is probably click desktop then alt l o c k  s c r e e n <enter>
[08:38] <ali1234> yeah but tiling WM are horrible to use
[08:38] <gord> my keyboards have lock screen function keys
[08:39] <ali1234> would be nifty if the key on G19 to turn off the backlight and screen also turned off the main monitors
[08:40]  * Azelphur would be happy if his G19 didn't continually randomly turn itself off
[08:40]  * Azelphur stabs logitech
[08:40] <ali1234> then again, that also could be potentially really annoying since i like to turn that stuff off when watching a movie or something
[08:40] <ali1234> i thought you were going to go maplins and get a new PSU?
[08:40] <Azelphur> I did
[08:40] <Azelphur> didn't fix it :<
[08:40] <ali1234> well there isn't anything in it that could fail like that
[08:41] <Azelphur> I'll have to video it for you so you can see exactly what happens, then maybe you'll have an idea \o/
[08:41] <ali1234> "it just turns off" what else is there to know?
[08:42] <Azelphur> sometimes it boot loops too
[08:42] <Azelphur> the logitech logo will appear on the screen, and then it'll turn off, rinse and repeat
[08:42] <ali1234> i think it's your computer
[08:42] <Azelphur> :<
[08:42] <ali1234> it doesn't it have a history of killing USB devices?
[08:43] <Azelphur> nope
[08:43] <Azelphur> My g13 works fine so does my piano
[08:43] <ali1234> what about that arduino?
[08:43] <Azelphur> I'm semi-convinced that was just a software issue
[08:43] <ali1234> well there is simply nothing on the circuit board that can fail like that
[08:44] <Azelphur> fun
[08:44] <ali1234> test it while not plugged in to computer
[08:44] <ali1234> you will probably need to add a serial port to do that
[08:44] <Azelphur> bit difficult to do that, it only tends to fail while I'm using it and it usually takes a couple days of uptime to go weird
[08:45] <ali1234> or test it on another computer
[08:46] <Azelphur> ali1234: http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-Series-Gaming-Keyboards/g19-restarts-itself/m-p/432636/highlight/true#M10771 is sorta interesting
[08:46] <Azelphur> I tried turning off EHCI, but I dunno if there's a ubuntu equiv to sideshow devices
[08:47] <ali1234> sideshow devices means those little LCD on the outside of the laptop
[08:47] <Azelphur> ah
[08:47] <Azelphur> second page is interesting, they blame a phone
[08:47] <Azelphur> I should test that
[08:47] <ali1234> i have never seen any problems and i have uptimes of several weeks usually
[08:48] <Azelphur> do you usually have a mobile phone right next to your keyboard
[08:48] <ali1234> yes, three actually
[08:48] <Azelphur> haha
[08:48] <Azelphur> maybe not that then :)
[08:48] <MooDoo> pah i've just smashed the screen on mine
[08:48] <Azelphur> MooDoo: ooops :x
[08:48] <ali1234> if you count the ones not switched on there's 5
[08:48] <ali1234> also a n800
[08:49] <MooDoo> Azelphur: yup pain in the neck
[08:50] <ali1234> who knows though, they may have done different circuit board revs
[08:50] <ali1234> or you might be further from the base station than me (thus your phone is yelling and mine is not)
[08:51] <Azelphur> I may well be pretty far from a base station
[08:51] <ali1234> putting phone on keyboard, sending yourself a text and then watching it crash seems pretty conclusive to me
[08:51] <Azelphur> I'll test it tomorrow \o/
[08:51] <Azelphur> I've had it crash a couple times when I put my phone on the keyboard, I was sorta tempted to say it was vibration, but maybe it's interference
[08:52] <ali1234> well that's easy to test
[08:54]  * AlanBell has the same exact laptop as TOShrun and doesn't have unity hating me so much with multimonitor in 12.04
[08:55] <TOShrun> But AlanBell has beaten it into submission. I'm a newbie
[08:56] <AlanBell> maybe it wore me down into compliance
[08:56] <AlanBell> you have to go with the flow
[08:56] <TOShrun> Ah - maybe. I am so used to gnome2 just working and not breaking. Guess I was spoiled. Progress eh?
[08:57] <AlanBell> yup
[08:58] <popey> yeah, GNOME 2 was 100% reliable for all of the last 7 years
[08:58] <popey> no, wait, the other one
[08:58] <ali1234> the worst part is that it only got reliable about 6 months before it was canned
[08:59] <ali1234> thus 6.5 years of hard work just discarded
[08:59] <AlanBell> unity is about ready for people to start testing it
[08:59] <awilkins> Yegods, Eclipse p2 is depressingly slow
[08:59] <TOShrun> 10.10 was great. It just worked. Always.
[09:00] <ali1234> 10.10 was probably best release yet
[09:02] <ali1234> pretty much since 11.04 i've been running exclusively +1
[09:02] <ali1234> because it's less broken than the releases
[09:02] <ali1234> which i suppose means they are at least improving
[09:04] <SuperMatt> ali1234: I wouldn't say that 6.5 years of work was discarded. One would hope that a lot of the stable code, etc, was reused.
[09:05] <ali1234> well the stable code that lives on in gnome 3 likely was around in gnome 1
[09:05] <ali1234> so it's a lot older than 7 years or w/e
[09:05] <SuperMatt> I would say that gnome 3 was exactly what was needed because I think that gnome 2 is hideously out of date and out of touch with what users want
[09:06] <ali1234> nope. you are describing gnome 3
[09:06] <Laney> ali1234 the user experience guru
[09:06] <SuperMatt> people only cry out for gnome 2 because they've just got their desktops the way they want them and don't want to change
[09:08] <ali1234> why is that a problem?
[09:08] <ali1234> do i come to your house and rearrange your furniture?
[09:08] <ali1234> put the TV behind the couch because "that's more efficient"
[09:08] <ali1234> and then accuse you of just not wanting to change?
[09:08] <SuperMatt> you do if I say "hey, I want the latest everything, and I'm happy to accept something off the shelf and have ikea do the work"
[09:10] <Laney> it's alright, with all of the contributions he's putting into MATE we'll be fine.
[09:10] <Laney> oh wait.
[09:11] <SuperMatt> I also think that some people confuse workflow efficiency with tinkering efficiency. Sure, there are a lot of hidden options which are a bitch to get to, but when you're configured, you need to focus on how well you work, and gnome 3 and unity do that very well
[09:11] <ali1234> hey, i thought ubuntu was supposed to be for human beings, not developers?
[09:11] <TOShrun> Ah - tell that to Dell (Sputnik)
[09:12] <Laney> i'll tell you one thing it is definitely not for: people who persistently complain without doing any of the work.
[09:12] <TOShrun> oooh
[09:12] <ali1234> uh, sorry
[09:12] <ali1234> but if you want to make extra work by reinventing the whell, you can be damn sure i won't help you
[09:12] <Laney> you'll just snipe
[09:12] <Laney> we've established that
[09:12] <ali1234> yes, i will
[09:13] <Laney> we have also established that it won't change a thing
[09:13] <Laney> so everyone's happy I guess
[09:13] <SuperMatt> huzzah!
[09:13]  * SuperMatt gets out the champagne
[09:14] <ali1234> but hey, we already established that i don't like change, so i guess i should just carry on?
[09:15] <MooDoo> ali1234: "keep calm and carry on" :)
[09:15] <Laney> i think you should get involved with developing a system you like, rather than complaining about those you don't
[09:15] <ali1234> why? i don't have time for developing desktops. why do you think i am using ubuntu?
[09:15] <ali1234> it's because i am lazy
[09:16] <Laney> well you've noticed that ubuntu isn't following your personal direction
[09:16] <ali1234> yeah
[09:16] <Laney> so ... I don't see what you can do if you're not willing to get involved?
[09:16] <Laney> those who do the work get to make the decisions, that's how this stuff works
[09:16] <ali1234> if i wasn't so lazy i would switch to something else
[09:17] <diplo> I do like Unity, I just find it lacking somewhere, and I can't work out what.. I am really trying this time but when I installed Cinnamon I felt that it worked better from the outset
[09:17] <diplo> I do feel the stability issues I've been having since Natty, and still somewhat into Precise have put me off A Lot
[09:17] <SuperMatt> I'm quite enjoying unity. I know it has a bug or two (or many) but it's still a very well rounded application. Now is the time to start using it, forsure
[09:18] <ali1234> i've explained this many times. your getting annoyed with my lack of willingness to help is the natural end result of making an OS targetted at "humans" - humans are lazy and don't want to do any work and just complain. so this whole conversation is in fact indicative of ubuntu's "success"
[09:20] <diplo> My biggest issue/annoyanceat themo is the second app bar on secondary screen
[09:20] <diplo> If I could remove that I would be happier
[09:20] <popey> you can
[09:20] <Laney> of course you can complain all you want, but that doesn't mean anyone has to listen to you
[09:21] <directhex> unity today is less horrifically broken than shell is
[09:21] <Laney> i think, as you seem to have a vision, that you would be happier if you tried to implement it
[09:21] <diplo> oh, last time I asked it was only available to hide, havent checked recently
[09:21] <directhex> and i've been deploying ubuntu with unity rather than shell, since i don't have the time to run studies on my users to see if they want shell instead
[09:21] <popey> diplo: super -> display -> "Launcher Placement"
[09:21] <ali1234> directhex: i absolutely agree
[09:21] <diplo> directhex, I totally agree with that, it got so bad for me on 11.04 I gave up and used a different DE for 6-8 months
[09:21] <diplo> ta
[09:22] <directhex> there's still plenty not to like in unity, but it's at least usable
[09:22] <diplo> popey, it sort of worked :)
[09:22] <diplo> And more stable
[09:23] <Laney> yeah, that it's not a tiling wm :(
[09:23] <directhex> as a random example, shell absolutely does not function with multi-monitors stacked vertically
[09:23] <directhex> especially with non-uniform sizes
[09:23] <diplo> It's gone to my right ( Secondary screen )
[09:23] <popey> thats my main dual-screen use-case
[09:23] <popey> my monitor is behind my laptop
[09:23] <popey> so i put one above the other
[09:23] <directhex> popey, used shell?
[09:23] <popey> no, thats verboten ;)
[09:24] <ali1234> really? i wouldn't have thought it would make any difference at all, given that shell just ignores any monitor after the first
[09:24] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:24] <czajkowski> popey: where are the plenary videos from uds ?
[09:24] <popey> youtube
[09:24] <AlanBell> now that alt-tab works I am ok with unity
[09:24] <directhex> ali1234, no, it doesn't. shell users are the majority in the office, and multi-monitor is very common. it almost works, except with vertical stacking
[09:24] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/user/ubuntudevelopers
[09:24] <AlanBell> czajkowski: they cut the good bits from Daviey's plenary
[09:24] <ali1234> really? so you can have multiple workspaces on the secondary monitors now?
[09:24] <czajkowski> popey: thanks
[09:25] <directhex> no, the workspace behaviour is braindead. iirc it only supports something like mirroring, or one fixed workspace on the second display
[09:25] <directhex> not sure, i don't use multi monitor
[09:26] <directhex> unity annoyances are mostly that dash is laughably slow compared to Do
[09:26]  * popey goes back to bed with ubuflu
[09:26] <czajkowski> popey: nn get well
[09:27] <directhex> and a few apps confuse the hell out of the thing that tracks window parentage. bamf, is it?
[09:27] <DJones> Should that not be UDSflu, rather than UBUflu
[09:27] <SuperMatt> popey: is that the UDS version of fresher's flu?
[09:29] <popey> yes
[09:29] <directhex> SuperMatt, yes
[09:29] <SuperMatt> gotcha
[09:29]  * popey chuckles at bamf
[09:29] <popey> bad a$$ mo fo..
[09:29] <directhex> BAMF!
[09:30] <directhex> popey, nope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamf
[09:31] <gord> its the bamf application matching framework
[09:31] <popey> yeah yeah, that's the _sensible_ answer
[09:31] <gord> i have no idea what popey is talking about, ignore him
[09:32] <AlanBell>  /ignore popey
[09:32] <gord> he is delirious from ubuflu
[09:32] <popey> its the ubuflu
[09:32] <popey> bed
[09:32] <popey> nn
[09:32] <AlanBell> nn
[09:33] <jussi> pish, popey is always delerious :P
[09:33] <directhex> at any rate, it poops itself over unison2.27.57-gtk
[09:33] <ali1234> and anything java related
[09:33] <directhex> java has always confused window managers
[09:34] <ali1234> yeah, but it especially confuses bamf
[09:34] <directhex> chances are it'll be fine if you set the variable which makes java use the old X driver, not the new one
[09:34] <directhex> the old one worked with everything
[09:34] <ali1234> nope
[09:34] <gord> java doesn't export any information that bamf can use to match windows -> desktop files, java needs to be fixed
[09:34] <ali1234> also anything that is statically compiled tends to not work properly
[09:36] <AlanBell> is there any realistic prospect of java being fixed?
[09:36] <directhex> lol
[09:36] <ali1234> having two binaries for one program, or two .desktop files for one program, really confuses it
[09:37] <directhex> AlanBell, nobody's "fixed" java for decades :p
[09:37] <AlanBell> now that it has been given the dementors kiss by oracle
[09:37] <ali1234> and no, there is zero chance of java being fixed unless one of the bamf developers does it
you should just fix it instead of complaining about it</rant>
[09:38] <directhex> i like java being broken.
[09:38] <gord> would be nice if there were some sort of good bounty website for this kind of stuff
[09:38] <ali1234> only if the bounties are actually worth the effort involved
[09:39] <ali1234> $50 bounty for massive invasive changes to java that upstream will never accept = no thanks
[09:39] <directhex> the point of free software development is that it enables people to "scratch an itch"
[09:40] <directhex> any project which does not permit external contribution is effectively not useful in that sense, since you can't contribute scratched itches
[09:41]  * AlanBell installs eclipse to see how broken it is
[09:41] <TOShrun> Ah - I wouldn't recommend running the packaged eclipse AlanBell
[09:41] <directhex> eclipse is why i quit developing in java
[09:42] <ali1234> lol
[09:42] <ali1234> eclipse isn't that bad
[09:42] <TOShrun> it gets very broken when eclipse updates some of it's packages.
[09:42] <directhex> i was a java dev once. it's true! my degree was mostly java-based
[09:42] <ali1234> by which i mean, it isn't the worst thing about java
[09:42] <TOShrun> just download a tarball and run it from ~/bin
[09:42] <bigcalm> AlanBell: what do you need eclipse for?
[09:43] <TOShrun> Eclipse works OK - it's a bit slow but I like the UI and integration of SVN and various languages
[09:43] <TOShrun> I also use Talend (built on Eclipse)
[09:44] <AlanBell> bigcalm: well apparently java applications don't work with unity
[09:44] <ali1234> if you just want to test that i suggest something smaller
[09:44] <bigcalm> AlanBell: have a look at NetBeans
[09:45] <AlanBell> it is installed now
[09:45] <AlanBell> so I have a launcher icon, I click it, it launches
[09:45] <ali1234> *eventually* :)
[09:45] <AlanBell> I have SSD, it launches
[09:46] <AlanBell> gedit launches slightly faster, but not by much :)
[09:47] <AlanBell> click, have mouthfull of coffee, put mug down, its ready
[09:47] <ali1234> gedit loads as quickly as switching to an already running instance here
[09:48] <ali1234> so now it's loaded, what happens?
[09:49] <awilkins> AlanBell, I don't think Java and Unity are mutually exclusive
[09:50] <ali1234> yeah, i never said they were
[09:50] <awilkins> AlanBell, I think Eclipse is actually blacklisted from the global menu
[09:50] <ali1234> i just said java apps confuse bamf
[09:50] <awilkins> AlanBell, Something about it not coping with dynamic menu updates AFAIK
[09:51] <ali1234> though open office (or whatever they're calling it this week) doesn't. that's written in java right?
[09:51] <AlanBell> oh, I turned off global menu because it breaks wayland
[09:51] <awilkins> Tasktop, which is an Eclipse RCP app, does work with the global menu (not sure if this is an oversight, or deliberate though)
[09:51] <awilkins> ali1234, LibreOffice is C++ with some Java bits
[09:51] <awilkins> Which they are trying to remove as fast as possible
[09:51] <ali1234> ok, that's probably why it works then
[09:51] <awilkins> ali1234, There's a plugin - lo-menubar
[09:51] <ali1234> AlanBell: you use wayland?
[09:52] <awilkins> ali1234,  But it's not regarded as stable enough to support, I've never had trouble with it
[09:52] <ali1234> lo-menubar? what is that?
[09:52] <ali1234> i'm talking about bamf, not global menus
[09:52] <awilkins> Oh, soz
[09:52] <AlanBell> I was running some stuff in weston, GTK things 'work' but only if you turn off all the canonical stuff that goes off piste and requires native X
[09:52] <ali1234> i also have global menus turned off, because they suck
[09:53] <AlanBell> so overlay scrollbars and global menus need turning off
[09:53] <ali1234> yep
[09:53] <ali1234> porting all that stuff to wayland is going to be fun
[09:53] <awilkins> I quite like overlay scollbars for Eclipse, it has so many panes that the scrollbars become a major drain on it's screen real estate
[09:53] <ali1234> luckily it will be fun for someone other than me
[09:53] <TOShrun> ali1234: How do you turn off that global menu thing? It get's on my nerves too. Having to move the mouse *way* up to the top of the screen - it used to be right there.
[09:54] <ali1234> awilkins: and what if you want to resize the panes, and the handle thing just blocks you every time?
[09:54] <awilkins> ali1234, It's not something I recall being frustrated by
[09:54] <ali1234> i currently have an open bug about that one
[09:55] <ali1234> TOShrun: just looking up the guide for doing it
[09:55] <awilkins> ali1234, It may be worse since the most recent iteration of the scrollbars which are sensitive all along their height
[09:55] <ali1234> you have to do a combination of removing packages and setting environment variables to get rid of it everywhere (because it requires so many hacks and patches to every UI toolkit)
[09:56] <TOShrun> ah
[09:57] <ali1234> ok to start with you want to export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY= in your prefered place for putting environment variables
[09:57] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/10481/how-do-i-disable-the-global-application-menu
[09:58] <ali1234> this question seems out of date and i'm sure there was a much better one
[09:59] <TOShrun> There are a few links to other interesting pages. Will read when I have more time. Thanks
[10:01] <davmor2> morning all
[10:01] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/105889/can-i-completely-disable-the-menu-proxy
[10:01] <ali1234> there are also issues if you use X11 forwarding and such
[10:02] <ali1234> ok, eclipse does not confuse bamf any more
[10:10] <directhex> BAMF!
[10:10] <AlanBell> eclipse seems like any other application to me
[10:16] <selinuxium> Hi all  o/
[10:17] <SuperMatt> word up
[10:17] <ali1234> yeah, eclipse works fine
[10:17] <directhex> except for being eclipse
[10:17] <ali1234> natch
[10:18] <ali1234> i just mean in terms of launching, locking to launcher, etc
[10:18] <Knightwise> morning everyone :)
[10:19] <ali1234> ah, not quite. unlock it from the launcher, then run it from the dash (not a terminal) and you get no icon
[10:20] <ali1234> actually didn't someone run into that bug the other day?
[10:20] <TOShrun> if you minimise it and move to a different workspace, then go back (when it has no icon) you can't get to it. Unless you install Expo
[10:21] <Knightwise> grr.
[10:21] <Knightwise> fell of the internet there
[10:21] <TOShrun> alt+tab doesn't show it. Expo does.
[10:21] <selinuxium> Any Millbank peeps about? I have a problem trying to give Canonical a couple of grand...
[10:21] <Knightwise> too busy writing manuals for dumb users.
[10:22] <TOShrun> popey: is asleep selinuxium (shhh)
[10:23] <davmor2> jpds: you about ^^^
[10:23] <selinuxium> TOShrun, :)
[10:23] <selinuxium> I have pinged czajkowski as well... :)
[10:23] <TOShrun> Must work out how to create a password so I can login to freenode with the same name ;-)
[10:24] <jpds> davmor2: Hi.
[10:24] <SuperMatt> omg loving virtual machine manager in precise, I can now save the vm state :)
[10:24] <selinuxium> jpds, has answered the call!
[10:25] <davmor2> jpds: many thanks
[10:27] <selinuxium> SuperMatt, explain do you mean on KVM?
[10:27] <SuperMatt> yeah
[10:28] <SuperMatt> unless this is a feature that's been there for ages but I was too blind to see :P
[10:31] <selinuxium> SuperMatt. Has been a while since I have used KVM. I have two spare servers now to play with so will be setting it up again..
[10:36] <AlanBell> !register | TOShrun
[10:48] <oimon> getting memtest errors on a bunch of new kit. same address on nearly every one.
[10:48] <oimon> :-\
[10:50] <davmor2> oimon: try another version of memtest might be a bug in memtest itself
[10:51] <oimon> it's possible, i was thinking that
[10:54] <Knightwise> when i want users to have read only access to a folder
[10:54] <Knightwise> do i just need to chown it and then go chmod 775 ?
[10:56] <davmor2> oimon: it might be that the version of memtest doesn't know about the newer memory in the machine so is hitting a coding error maybe
[10:56] <hoover> Knightwise: 755 might be better
[10:56] <hoover> Knightwise: depending on your group setup
[10:57] <hoover> 755 == owner rw, group + rest of the world ro
[10:57] <hoover> you could also add the users to the group you want to allow read access for
[11:00] <MooDoo> alright davmor2 :)
[11:01] <davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka 'ow am ya
[11:02] <MooDoo> davmor2: yes not too bad thanks
[11:34] <filo1234> hi all
[11:35] <filo1234> I've enabled root account for some test, ad after I've re-disabled root using passwd -d root , so why recovery mode ask for CTRL-D or password if root has empty password again?
[11:38] <filo1234> so if I type "return" I can login without password, but I remember that recovery ( by default ) with root disabled doesn't ask for CTRL-D
[11:43] <MooDoo> yay oggcamp hotel booked
[11:44] <DJones> Where are you staying
[11:45] <MooDoo> DJones: at the britannia adelphi - http://oggcamp.org/accommodation/
[11:46] <DJones> Right, hadn't realised most people tried to stay at one venue
[11:49] <MooDoo> DJones: they have had quite a few booking this morning
[11:53] <DJones> Right, the place is only 30 minutes from home for me
[11:54] <MooDoo> DJones: you'll be ok then :D
[11:55] <DJones> Yep, going to try and visit, but I've got holidays, cousins wedding and birthdays all around the oggcamp weekend so I might not make it
[12:07] <SuperMatt> sigh, my habbit of checking for updates every half an hour or so seems to have extended past the beta phase
[12:08] <SuperMatt> maybe I should install quantal so I have something to update every once in a while
[12:13] <Knightwise> hmm.. playing around with google Drive
[12:14] <Knightwise> looks very satisfying too. I can now finally organise my GoogleDocs
[12:15] <SuperMatt> out for linux yet?
[12:17] <SuperMatt> The reason why I'm going google drive (when I can) is because I use gmail, I like picasa, and it share its space with drive, so I can put all my photos up on picasa and have google drive use the remainder of the space
[12:17] <SuperMatt> that way I only have to manage one subscription
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> Picasa and drive share space?
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> My Picasa only has 1 or 2 GB.. my gmail has 7.5
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> uhr
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> 10
[12:20] <feisar> hi, does anyone have a recommendation for simple online storage space that I can ssh/rsync to?
[12:20] <MartijnVdS> feisar: a VPS?
[12:21] <feisar> no it's a physical server
[12:21] <mattt> VPS not redundant :(
[12:22] <feisar> I'd like around 1TB of space, that I can just mirror stuff to using ssh/rsync
[12:22] <SuperMatt> feisar: wait until google drive comes out for linux, you might be able to do that with command line
[12:23] <SuperMatt> what about amazon cloud? is that redundant?
[12:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Use something like sparkleshare on your own hosted h/w?
[12:24] <Knightwise> SuperMatt: that would be cool :)
[12:24] <feisar> TheOpenSourcerer: that's the kind of thing I'm looking for but I want it in a different location to our own h/w
[12:25] <Knightwise> i do know that Steve Gibson mentioned a bunch of cloud solutions on the last 2 podcasts of "security now"
[12:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> run that on EC2
[12:25] <SuperMatt> I would go with EC2
[12:25] <feisar> thanks, I', looking at EC2 now, looks like ssh & rsync work
[12:28] <mattt> there was some rsync service
[12:28] <mattt> i remember seeing them advertising on the gentoo site all the time
[12:28] <feisar> mattt: that might be event better
[12:28] <mattt> http://rsync.net/
[12:29] <feisar> just got em!
[12:30] <feisar> rsync.net looks perfect
[12:31] <feisar> mattt: thanks : )
[12:32] <feisar> actually, it's a little expensive
[12:34] <Knightwise> feisar: why not run your own server somewhere ? All the gigs you want ? or use something like bluehost (i know they dont like it if you use their webspace as filestorage .. but it works ?)
[12:34] <Knightwise> they have SSH access to the directories so in theory it should work too
[12:35] <feisar> running my own would definitely give me all the space I need but where do you put a server like that?
[12:35] <Knightwise> grandma's house ? (i've done that)
[12:36] <feisar> if it was for personal use, yesh but this is for an organisation
[12:36] <feisar> yesh?! I mean yeah
[12:36] <Knightwise> hmm .. not very professional indeed
[12:36] <diplo> feisar, called co-locating
[12:36] <feisar> they need about 600GB of space and £300 a month is pretty expensive
[12:37] <Knightwise> but check out the links to the security now podcast , perhaps there is a service in there for you ?
[12:37] <diplo> But it's nto cheap if you are thinking rsyncs prices are dear
[12:37] <diplo> Alzephur hosts a box in the US, if latency isn't an issue
[12:37] <diplo> It's a lot cheaper to host there
[12:38] <feisar> US would be fine, I think rsync.net is in the US
[12:39] <Knightwise> realy ?
[12:39] <feisar> if only they had two offices... I might have to use tapes
[12:39] <Knightwise> you and the NSA have nothing to hide from each other ?
[12:40] <diplo> If you are that worried you could encrypt :)
[12:40] <feisar> it could be encrypted
[12:40]  * TheOpenSourcerer uses machines in Germany - A machine with 2x3TB (RAID 1) for €49/m
[12:40] <diplo> I take it 600gb is total storage, wat sort of storage are you looking at ?
[12:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> And it has 10TB bandwidth/m
[12:41] <diplo> What I was about to suggest TheOpenSourcerer, running your own dedi server shouldn't be that dear, just need a bit of housekeeping to make sure it's secure
[12:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed.
[12:42] <feisar> 3TB for 49 a month is good
[12:42] <feisar> I figured that dedicated hosting would cost more than just getting some space somewhere
[12:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4s
[12:43] <mattt> feisar: may not meet your requirements, but may want to look at amazon's S3, rackspace's cloud files, etc.
[12:43] <feisar> yeah, thanks guys
[12:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sorry - wrong one: http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4
[12:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> That €49 in inc. VAT btw.
[12:44] <mattt> jeez, that's cheap
[12:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
[12:44] <feisar> it seems odd that I can get 3TB of space there with all that processor power and yet can get the space on it's own for less
[12:44] <mattt> i have a hetzner box, paying around 49 euros a month
[12:44] <mattt> and it certainly doesn't have those specs :)
[12:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> We have 4 hetzner boxes now.
[12:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Of varying specs.
[12:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Some more, some less.
[12:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> They update their h/w quite frequently.
[12:45] <mattt> yeah, i need to ditch mine
[12:45] <mattt> i'm not using it a lot
[12:46] <mattt> a lot of people moan about hetzner, but i've not had any probs
[12:46] <mattt> which reminds me
[12:46] <TheOpenSourcerer> feisar needs one.
[12:46] <mattt> i had a reminder a few weeks back about my server getting moved between datacentres
[12:46] <mattt> forgot about it, but fortunately it moved without issue :)
[12:46] <mattt> actually it never moved, checking my uptime
[12:47] <feisar> TheOpenSourcerer: thanks for the link
[12:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> np
[12:56] <Knightwise> Sigh :) Need Coffee !
[12:56]  * Knightwise needs to patch his Java quota
[12:57] <feisar> I dont understand how hetzner are so cheap nothing in the UK even comes close to that amount of space
[12:59] <MooDoo> feisar: they employ pixies
[12:59] <feisar> ha
[13:00] <awilkins> Judicious de-duping?
[13:02] <feisar> yeah
[13:03] <feisar> although I don't thank that would work with most of what I'd be storing there
[13:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's German efficiency!
[13:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ooh Talend 5.1 out today.
[13:14] <Knightwise> hmm. i was looking at getting me a second hand HP DM1 netbook
[13:14] <Knightwise> but it looks like it isnt very precise friendly :(
[13:20] <AlanBell> straight to Quantal then Knightwise
[13:23] <Knightwise> lol :) might be a bit early to run the alpha on there, dont you think ?
[13:24] <Knightwise> Might just upgrade the harddrive in my 2009 macbook air with an SSD and punch ubuntu on there , works fine
[13:26] <MooDoo> ssd o/
[13:26] <diplo> :(
[13:26] <DJones> Heh Gnome flavour Ubuntu considered http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTEwMTU
[13:26] <diplo> I really must save for one
[13:27] <Knightwise> i am looking at the ones at OWC (other world computing) pretty cheep and pretty nice
[13:27] <Knightwise> installed one in my Macbook pro http://knightwise.com/kwtv-0031-qmutate-your-macbookq/
[13:29] <awilkins> I'm thinking of upgrading my 64GB one to a 128GB one
[13:29] <awilkins> It's in a caddy, I shlep it between work and home
[13:29] <awilkins> It's my OS disk at work and I bind-mount the working folders on my desktop at home
[13:30] <awilkins> It's survived much better than the spinning-rust ones that I used to do the same with
[13:30] <awilkins> They all drop dead from mechanical faults
[13:31] <awilkins> External HDD caddy controllers are crapulous in general too, they fail really quickly
[13:38]  * AlanBell is sleepy
[13:39]  * AlanBell thinks customers should accept consultants need an afternoon nap
[13:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> ha ha
[13:39] <diplo> I think i could start taking an afternoon nap
[13:39] <MooDoo> lazy buggre :)
[13:40] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: is that French? :)
[13:40] <DJones> I thought it was spanish for Have a siesta
[13:41] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: oui :)
[13:42] <gord> AlanBell, i petition for nap time sessions every uds, no one takes me seriously :(
[13:42] <SuperMatt> should make it one of the ubuntu achievements
[13:43] <davmor2> gord: no one ever takes you seriously though dude you should be used to it ;)
[13:43] <gord> i am *always* super cereal.
[13:44] <directhex> even about manbearpig?
[13:45] <gord> *especially*
[13:45] <directhex> i hear he's half man and half bearpig
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> directhex: like some kind of weird centaur?
[14:01] <Knightwise> hey MartijnVdS , goed !
[14:01] <Knightwise> gord !
[14:01] <Knightwise> didn't smell you come in :)
[14:04] <davmor2> pig bear man, surely they are missing the the word ugly and spelt bear wrong :D
[14:07] <bigcalm> Wish it was Wednesday so that I could have steak and a couple of pints. Damn you slow week
[14:08] <czajkowski> will be taking part in flossie next week http://www.flossie.org/?page_id=125
[14:09] <oimon> czajkowski, you are in the main QMUL maths lecture theatre for these?
[14:10] <oimon> doesn't say which dept.but i think its maths
[14:11] <czajkowski> oimon: no idea
[14:12] <oimon> looks like a really fun conference, shame its women only
[14:13] <czajkowski> no it's not
[14:14] <AlanBell> oh, I need to get CDs to Paula for that
[14:14] <czajkowski> open to anyone who wants to come along
[14:14] <czajkowski> just the majority of speakers are women
[14:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hey you could invite some folks from Dell Norway ;-)
[14:14] <MooDoo> there should be a central site for events like this, as i only ever here about them when czajkowski mentioned them lol
[14:14] <oimon> oh i didn't know that men can go
[14:15] <czajkowski> oimon: it doesnt say men not welcome now does it
[14:15] <czajkowski> anywhere!
[14:15] <DJones> oimon: You have to wear a dress though :)
[14:15] <czajkowski> MooDoo: lanyard is good
[14:15] <oimon> someone told me, and i couldn't find information to refute what they said
[14:16] <czajkowski> scarmongering
[14:16] <oimon> maybe she didn't want me there :P
[14:16] <oimon> as i work on the campus
[14:16] <MooDoo> oimon: i can believe that ;)
[14:17] <shauno> to be fair, between the 'who is this event for' bit, and "For everyone who loves Free Libre Software and identifies as a woman" in the sidebar, I'd probably reach the same conclusion unless told otherwise
[14:18] <oimon> shauno, yeah, sounds like it might be a bit ...awkward
[14:18] <oimon> actually i'm offsite on a course that week anyway
[14:21] <czajkowski> *headdesk*
[14:25] <MooDoo> wassup czajkowski *PROD*
[15:51]  * aquarius tries new irc client.
[15:52] <awilkins> Aha, an app that DOES confuse the taskbar
[15:52] <awilkins> MySQL Workbench
[15:52] <awilkins> I guess it gets it's own dedicated workspace with no other apps on it
[16:12] <awilkins> Suddenly I find my will to go on a little sapped
[19:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> On my 12.04 desktop virt-manager is not letting me create a new image. I get a message: "invalid storage volume pointer in no storage vol with matching path"
[19:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> The server (host) has not changed.
[19:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> running virt-manager over ssh.
[19:17] <MarkDude> popey, ftw! https://twitter.com/#!/MarkDude/status/202462902903517185/photo/1
[19:49] <Sarah__> burmesearmy
[20:05] <Laney> indeed.
[20:07] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: create the hdd image manually and attach it, I did that the other day
[20:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> yeah - worked that out in the end
[20:25] <mattt> Laney: lolz
[20:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh goody. Precise just decided it had had enough - the launcher started flashing various icons and then it slowed to crawl. Took me 15 minutes to carefully shut as many apps as I could down then reboot.
[20:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> It is really not very good.
[20:42] <MartijnVdS> wouldn't restarting unity work?
[20:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> I couldn't. It had all but locked up. Didn't/couldn't get to a terminal without trying to start something. It was in a state.
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> scary
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> nvidia?
[20:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> I get one or two crashes each day.
[20:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> yes. But a fairly old and low powered GPU.
[20:44]  * MartijnVdS hugs his intel gpu
[20:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> This machine was rock solid on 10.10 BTW.
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> I remember there being problems with nvidia gpus becoming desoldered because they got too hot
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> but that was several years ago
[20:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> This was a fairly simple card (fanless) just to do compiz - it has been fine.
[20:47] <MartijnVdS> My brother's laptop had the "solder" problem
[20:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Most of the time in Unity it seems OK but eventually 12.04 seems to get fscked and gives up.
[20:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> usually after I have lots of windows open.
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> what happens when you use the other driver?
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> nouveau vs nvidia-proprietary?
[20:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> on several workspaces.
[20:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have the nvidia driver installed.
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> Does it also crash with the nvidia driver uninstalled/nouveau driver running?
[20:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have no idea. And this is a work machine - I am trying to do work. Not debug buggy software...
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> Switching to the free driver fixed crashes for a few of my coworkers
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> It made it a lot slower too
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> but it didn't crash anymore
[20:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> I may give that a go then. Thanks for the tip.
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> if it doesn't work, it might be fried hardware though :|
[20:51] <bigcalm> How do I find out how much memory my graphics card has?
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's usually somewhere in the Xorg.log
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: in /var/log
[20:53] <bigcalm> Ta
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: also, lspci -v will probably show it
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: 	Memory at e0000000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M]
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> for mine
[20:54] <diplo> TheOpenSourcerer, want to stick with Unity, I was having similar problems.. tried Cinnamon and no longer any issues
[20:54] <diplo> My issues have pretty much gone now though.
[20:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> what is cinnamon?
[20:55] <diplo> The gnome2 fork
[20:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> ah
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> so not using 3d at all
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> that would explain the lack of crashes
[20:55] <diplo> gnome3
[20:55] <diplo> I'd say win7 esq
[20:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> But this box was fine with 10.10, compiz cubes and stuff.
[20:55] <diplo> Worked really well though
[20:55] <diplo> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/12/cinnamon-project-keeps-gnome-2-style-desktop-alive/
[20:55] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Never buy nvidia again ;)
[20:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Well, I am not convinced that this is down to nvidia. I've always used the nvidia drivers before and not had issues.
[20:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have issues since changing from 10.10 to 12.04
[20:57] <hamitron> 295.40?
[20:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have a GeForce 9500 GT in this box.
[20:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> And now I am going to bed.
[20:59] <MartijnVdS> nn
[20:59] <hamitron> I can't get packages.ubuntu.com working?
[22:20] <yothsoggoth> does anyone have any clues on the area-screenshot not working when pressting Shift+Print?
[22:21] <AlanBell> works for me (and I never knew it did that)
[22:21] <yothsoggoth> Hmm, I swear it used to work for me too, but it doesn't do anything anymore. :(. I only found it last week, it's a wonderful feature
[22:21] <yothsoggoth> ... if it was working, that is lol
[22:34] <yothsoggoth> Hmm, also.. trying to set a keyboard shortcut in the settings menu, pressing "Alt+Print" comes up as "Alt L", so it's impossible to reset the window printscreen shortcut
[22:35] <AlanBell> if you file 28 bugs about it then you will get bug 1000000
[22:35] <AlanBell> it will be found tomorrow
[22:57] <yothsoggoth> or Later tonight, I think bug 999979 was just posted
[23:01] <yothsoggoth> is "gnome-screenshot" the program used by default for screenshots?
[23:03] <Azelphur> yep
[23:05] <yothsoggoth> "gnome-screenshot -a" works fine, so I guess the bug is in whatever handles the keyboard shortcuts? I also tried setting Launch Terminal to Shift+Print and that worked, so it's not a case if the shortcut being incorrectly picked up