[00:13] h === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan === Amaranthus is now known as Amaranth === Amaranthus is now known as Amaranth === Guest8786 is now known as Ursinha === SaMe is now known as SergioMeneses === smb` is now known as smb === Adri2000_ is now known as Adri2000 === slangase` is now known as slangasek [15:01] * xnox 0/ [15:01] hey folks [15:01] * stgraber waves [15:01] \o [15:02] Steve asked me to run today's IRC meeting as he has a conflict [15:02] o/ [15:02] So a couple of notices first before everyone falls asleep: [15:02] zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz [15:03] * Please do your blueprint drafting *this week* so that we get an accurate burndown graph on status.ubuntu.com as soon as possible. You don't have to do a full wiki page if it just boils down to a few work items, only if it seems to need more exposition than that; so it shouldn't take too long. [15:04] (If you're not sure what to draft, you might try going through "my schedule" on summit, and/or looking through the foundations track, and/or looking for specs on Launchpad where you're marked as drafter.) [15:04] cjwatson: any wiki pages / tips on drafting blueprints the proper way (tm)? [15:05] xnox: anything mpt has ever written forms a good example of a well-written spec [15:05] * 12.04.1 is happening, a bit later than originally planned but no doubt sooner than we'll be ready for. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock has the current schedule, which puts it at 23 August in line with feature freeze for 12.10. [15:05] ev: but massive overkill for a lot of our specs :-) [15:05] ev: Fanboy. [15:05] ev: thanks. [15:06] So please keep a particular eye on anything that gets assigned to you for SRUs, though I'm sure that stgraber, bdmurray, and stokachu will help keep us in line there [15:06] :P [15:07] xnox: I don't have anything immediately to hand - if you're still unsure after looking round a few examples from your teammates, let me know and I'll walk you through it [15:07] OK, that's it for notices [15:07] cjwatson: ok thanks. [15:07] #startmeeting [15:07] Meeting started Wed May 16 15:07:19 2012 UTC. The chair is cjwatson. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [15:07] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [15:07] #topic Lightning round === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round [15:07] $ echo $(shuf -e barry bdmurray cjwatson doko ev infinity jodh ogra stgraber stokachu xnox) [15:07] ogra stgraber doko barry infinity bdmurray xnox jodh stokachu ev cjwatson [15:07] (not fixed, honest) [15:07] whee ! me first ! [15:07] done: [15:07] * been sick since UDS (pneumonia apparently), first day completely without fever is today it seems. [15:07] todo: [15:07] * tomorrow is ascension day in germany which is a public holiday so i wont be around [15:07] * finishing https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-embedded-rootfs to be in proper shape for acceptance [15:07] * finishing https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-hwpack-integration to be in proper shape for acceptance [15:07] * happy to take WIs from "event based initrd" and the "full image upgrades" specs [15:07] * still not done all merges [15:08] * promised doko to look into the gcc-4.7 FTBFS issues in debian and file debdiffs for failing packages [15:08] .. [15:08] Mix of things done pre and post UDS: [15:08] - Networking [15:08] - Tracked down race condition between NM and presence of loopback, will be in next NM SRU [15:08] - Tracked down source of network disconnect on wifi with IPv6 + RDNSS, currently testing a patch, should be in next NM SRU [15:08] - Merged ifupdown from Debian, got upstream to fix some bugs found by Quantal testers [15:08] - Got dual-stack IPv4/IPv6 connectivty working over 3G with the Orange Poland experimental network. [15:08] Currently doing that from the command line with a Nokia E51 using multiple PDP contexts for the 2 APNs. (need to blog about it) [15:08] - Poked some upstream kernel developers to try and get bug 936714 fixed upstream (so we have it for 12.10 and in 12.04 with the backport kernel) [15:08] Launchpad bug 936714 in linux (Ubuntu) "IPv6 DNS search list (DNSSL) isn't passed to userspace by the kernel" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/936714 [15:08] - Other [15:08] - Updated python-apt and lxc for quantal [15:08] - First pass through my list of merges/syncs [15:08] - Moved all non-english langpacks from Edubuntu's livefs to /pool and updated language-selector to deal properly with gcompris' langpacks. This should save > 30min of install time. [15:08] - SRU [15:08] - Pushed ldm SRU to precise (bug 991745) [15:09] Launchpad bug 991745 in LTSP "ldminfod doesn't seem to understand hidden=true in .desktop files" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/991745 [15:09] - Pushed lxc SRU to precise (bug 999187) [15:09] Launchpad bug 999187 in lxc (Ubuntu Precise) "lxc-create for armhf fails with error "failed to execute template 'ubuntu'"" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999187 [15:09] - Helped with the resolvconf SRU, took a few times to get it right, but the one currently in -proposed should be good (bug 994539, bug 989585) [15:09] Launchpad bug 994539 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Precise) "resolvconf 1.63ubuntu12 failed to install/upgrade -- "lsattr: Inappropriate ioctl for device While reading flags on /etc/resolv.conf"" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/994539 [15:09] Launchpad bug 989585 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Precise) "resolvconf failed to install/upgrade because /etc/resolv.conf immutable" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989585 [15:09] - Pushed nagios-nrpe SRU to hardy, lucid, natty, oneiric and precise. Needs help validating as initial reporter doesn't seem active anymore. [15:09] - ISO tracker [15:09] - Fixed bug 994816 [15:09] Launchpad bug 994816 in Ubuntu QA Website "Buttons for adding bugs found in previous builds of a product" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/994816 [15:09] - Implemented new DB schema for qa-q-isotracker-testcases and migration code [15:09] - Updated most of the UI to work with the new DB schema [15:09] - TODO this week [15:09] - Try and get the rest of qa-q-isotracker-testcases implemented, then push to http://iso.qa.dev.stgraber.org [15:09] - Go through all the UDS notes to extract the work items and update LP [15:09] (DONE) [15:10] infinity: of course I am. I sometimes read his specs to myself as bedtime stories. [15:10] thats passion ! [15:10] xnox: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ErrorTracker https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/Doc?docid=0AU5sFuLRpCpBZGZra2pqY2pfMTAxZ25rcnBnNXY&hl=en [15:10] xnox: but as cjwatson says, generally overkill [15:11] barry: ? [15:11] updated blueprint work items from session notes. merged twisted-{core,bin} from debian; need to merge twisted-{conch,mail,lore,names,news,runner,web,words} dependencies. gathered some stats for twisted buildbot for python 3. todo: port the launchpadlib stack, follow up on aptdaemon emails. done. [15:12] boo twisted [15:12] ;) [15:12] ;) [15:13] Agreed. [15:13] Who wants to rewrite lp-buildd in !twisted? [15:13] * ev hides, cowers [15:13] (If I do it, it'll be perl) [15:13] make it shell ! [15:13] last week: [15:13] - UDS [15:13] - Sick Monday and Tuesday [15:13] upcoming: [15:13] - Drafting specs [15:13] - Figuring out armel/armhf toolchain issues [15:13] hahahaha, I'll have to make more use of that threat [15:13] - Pushing some partner stuff out [15:13] - eglibc SRU [15:13] - Drugs and naps [15:13] infinity: let's port it to Go, I hear it's great for that kind of things ;) [15:13] ... [15:14] stgraber: Alright, *stavo. [15:14] aught up on email from UDS [15:14] review of boot-repair's /etc/default/grub modification code [15:14] research into and won't fixing of update-manager bug 997846 [15:14] reported whoopsie bug regarding collecting LiveMediaBuild [15:14] reported bug 993407 regarding install-info and /etc/environment [15:14] Launchpad bug 997846 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager in ubuntu 11.10 not showing 12.04 LTS upgrade" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/997846 [15:14] Launchpad bug 993407 in texinfo (Ubuntu) "install-info can fail to install due to syntax errors in /etc/environment" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993407 [15:14] investigation into update-manager reporting dependency problems - leaving unconfigured bug reports [15:14] reported update-manager bug 999890 [15:14] Launchpad bug 999890 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "does not block follow up errors from earlier reports" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999890 [15:14] rewrote harvest-maintainer-script.py to use the launchpad API [15:14] modifications to collect-bug-data (part of arsenal) to support ordering and limiting [15:14] wrote a bug pattern for texinfo bug 993047 [15:14] Launchpad bug 993047 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Arrêt soudain de la lecture aléatoire de Rhythmbox" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/993047 [15:14] wrote a bug pattern for resolvconf bug 989585 [15:14] Launchpad bug 989585 in resolvconf (Ubuntu Precise) "resolvconf failed to install/upgrade because /etc/resolv.conf immutable" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/989585 [15:14] wrote a bug pattern for bug 523896 [15:14] .done. [15:14] Launchpad bug 523896 in shadow (Ubuntu Quantal) "useradd: cannot lock /etc/passwd; try again later." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523896 [15:15] * uds / specs [15:15] - started factoring out work items (in progress) [15:15] * updated `sudo' merge based on slangasek's comments (in progress https://code.launchpad.net/~dmitrij.ledkov/ubuntu/quantal/sudo/merge/+merge/104420) [15:15] * grub2 sru/bugfix (bug #978464, quantal released, sru pending) [15:15] * mdadm bugfix / packaging (bug #942106, cannot reproduce in a VM need [15:15] more realistic hardware) [15:15] * mdadm missing utilities (bug #957494, needs liaising with SpamapS) [15:15] Launchpad bug 978464 in grub2 (Ubuntu Precise) "After LTS->LTS (lucid2precise) upgrade, upon reboot drops into grub recovery shell" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978464 [15:15] * got in touch with mdadm debian maintainers (one of them is russian [15:15] as well) to understand why udev incremental mdadm assembly was patched [15:15] out. Needs re-enabling in ubuntu. [15:15] Launchpad bug 942106 in mdadm (Ubuntu) "software raid doesn't assemble before mount on boot" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/942106 [15:15] * usb-creator wipe all partitions bug (merged a fix, testing with [15:15] sticks locally, bug #484252) [15:15] * arrived from uds on monday, and had monday booked as swap day [15:15] Launchpad bug 957494 in mdadm (Ubuntu) "Missing added utility 'mdmon'" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/957494 [15:15] TODO: [15:15] * specs / work items [15:15] * ubiquity planning with cjwatson cryptsetup/raid/lvm [15:15] Launchpad bug 484252 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "Format action wipes all partitions" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/484252 [15:15] .done. [15:16] * first day back after UDS (so recovering from ubuflu). [15:16] * catching up on mail. [15:16] * starting blueprint/etherpad trawl to generate workitems. [15:16] * annual review. [15:16] ⑁ [15:17] stokachu: Anything you'd like to note for this week? Sorry, kind of sprung this on you :) [15:17] cjwatson: Probably have some SRU's to post next week (i just created a couple yesterday) [15:19] OK - you can keep an eye on how other people are doing status dumps here and work out your own style from that :) [15:19] I do have a merge proposal that was reviewed by bdmurray https://code.launchpad.net/~adam-stokes/ubuntu/quantal/libgcrypt11/libgcrypt-fix-423252/+merge/105863 that i'd like to get done before i leave on vacation this friday [15:20] cool yea, seems like everyone is just pasting from a text file? [15:20] anyone want to take that? looks fairly short [15:20] * xnox nods. [15:20] stokachu: yep [15:20] ok cool [15:20] "here's one I made earlier" [15:21] if i can get the merge proposal finished I can create SRU's for review next week [15:22] I'll have a look after the meeting, then [15:22] ev: [15:22] I've got it. [15:22] hi, sorry [15:22] Or, rather, I'm already looking. [15:22] infinity: oh good, thanks [15:22] cool thanks [15:22] - Short week; UDS through Friday and travel on Sunday/Monday. [15:22] - Got all the work items in for all the crash database specs. Still need to [15:22] write additional wiki page specifications where necessary. [15:22] - Built a Tarmac bot in the Canonistack (to eventually be replaced with [15:22] james_w's juju charm) for running the whoopsie test suite on approved merge [15:22] proposals and landing the branches. [15:22] [15:22] I'll also set this up for daisy and errors once I set up a more permanent [15:22] Cassandra instance in the Canonistack, or create some magic around juju [15:22] relations as part of the test suite (verify_command = [15:22] CASSANDRA_IP=$(relation-get addr) make check) [15:22] - Modified whoopsie to fall back to SHA-512 hashing the MAC address of the [15:22] first non-loopback device when a system UUID is not present. [15:22] - Finished charming (ugh) daisy, the backend service to the Ubuntu error [15:22] tracker: [15:22] http://code.launchpad.net/~ev/charms/precise/daisy/trunk [15:22] - Started charming (ugh) the retracers. Still need to charm errors.ubuntu.com. [15:22] - Created a branch out of my existing Debian packaging and set up a source [15:22] package recipe. This resolves issues I was having in being able to provide [15:22] packages for multiple releases (most of the infrastructure is lucid, but the [15:22] retracers run on precise). [15:22] - Started reworking the mean time between failures backend code into a simpler [15:22] "total crashes for the day / total users for the day" chart. Filed an RT for [15:22] the initial deployment. [15:22] (done) [15:23] Short week: UDS then swapped bank holiday. [15:23] Pushed pykde4 the rest of the way up the hill for Python 3: yofel uploaded it. Uploaded pyicu Python 3 port. ubiquity will be uploaded shortly once I've had a chance to do a final build test. [15:23] Transferring work items into LP and other writeup-related work. [15:23] Attempted to get a working setup of the Debian testing migration code for quantal-proposed => quantal. Somewhat harder than expected so will take a while longer. [15:23] Finished off LP branch for per-packageset build scoring (https://code.launchpad.net/~cjwatson/launchpad/packageset-score/+merge/105915). Awaiting completion of review. [15:23] Working on per-pocket upload permissions. [15:23] Switched to new self-service interface for backporters and decommissioned the code supporting the old archive-admin-only interface. [15:23] Caught up on miscellaneous archive admin work. [15:23] Retesting merges.ubuntu.com to see if it still dies after its firmware upgrade. [15:23] To do: [15:24] About to dive into aptdaemon bug 926340. [15:24] Launchpad bug 926340 in aptdaemon (Ubuntu) "aptd crashed with UnicodeDecodeError in _set_error(): 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 9: ordinal not in range(128)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/926340 [15:24] cjwatson: \o/ [15:24] Finish deploying new transition tracker. [15:24] .. [15:24] #topic Bugs === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs [15:24] cjwatson: have you seen glatzor's py3 port of aptdaemon? [15:25] bdmurray,stokachu: Anything we need to be caring about urgently, either for 12.04.1 or 12.10? I haven't seen arsenal reports set up yet (which may well be my fault) [15:25] cjwatson: new transition tracker. Yeah! [15:25] barry: Yeah, on my to-do somewhere [15:25] cjwatson: i have a stack of replies i owe him on it ;) [15:25] xnox: py3 transition tracker ready yet? :) [15:25] xnox: got it mostly sorted with Laney at UDS, just need to polish [15:25] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libvirt/+bug/520386 - has a MIR(?) Assigned to it with serge hallyn as the owner [15:26] Launchpad bug 520386 in libvirt (Ubuntu Lucid) "libvirt-bin hypervisor does not support virConnectNumOfInterfaces / unable to create domain with virt-manager using network bridge" [Low,Confirmed] [15:26] cjwatson: I'm a bit confused by bug 998492 [15:26] Launchpad bug 998492 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Error while copying OS files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/998492 [15:26] barry: need to identify a few missing packages. then it can go onto new transition tracker ;-) [15:26] bdmurray: so am I :) [15:26] xnox: awesome, thanks! [15:26] I'd thought the work in 922949 was supposed to help with some of this [15:26] as you say [15:27] Here is the MIR for netcf https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/netcf/+bug/904014 [15:27] Launchpad bug 904014 in netcf (Ubuntu) "[MIR] netcf" [Undecided,In progress] [15:27] which I *think* leaves the possibility that something ate it between that check and dpkg looking at it [15:27] bug 922949 [15:27] Launchpad bug 922949 in apt (Ubuntu Precise) "installation process can crash due to an issue with one package when choosing "install updates" as part of the install" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/922949 [15:27] oh, no [15:27] May 12 16:49:13 ubuntu plugininstall.py: Failed to find package object for /target/var/cache/apt/archives/libreoffice-core_1%3a3.5.3-0ubuntu1_i386.deb: "The cache has no package named 'libreoffice-core:i386'" [15:27] So the check got confused and was ineffective ... [15:27] doh [15:28] bdmurray: I'll take this one for 12.04.1/12.10, it's clearly my fault anyway [15:28] okay, thanks [15:28] * infinity knee-jerks every time he sees bzip2 fail to unzip something... [15:28] stokachu: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mir/+members is the set of people empowered to move that forward [15:29] ah, maybe not, since they kicked it back to Serge for some work [15:29] yea netcf seems to be giving him a lot of trouble [15:29] sounds like if you want to start sending patches that'd be welcome [15:30] cjwatson: ok I was gonna start working on it when my load lightens a bit [15:30] i was forced to do the windows port at the "other" company [15:30] :X [15:30] I remember doing some libnl3 porting on some packages, though I don't remember whether netcf was one of them [15:31] if it was a hacky "build on Ubuntu damnit" patch it might have been me ;-) [15:31] lol [15:31] other than that I dont have any major bugs that haven't got attention yet [15:32] alrighty [15:32] #topic AOB === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB [15:32] then I also had a question about bug 999890 - we inadvertenly let a bunch of bugs be reported that we did not want. [15:32] Launchpad bug 999890 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "does not block follow up errors from earlier reports" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999890 [15:32] ah, too quick [15:32] either section is fine ;-) [15:32] so the question is what to do about the existing reports that got through [15:33] just auto-close them or let them be? [15:33] will they always have been accompanied by some other real report? [15:33] ben> we might want to merge with upstream: notably it has support for matching on Suggests/Recomemnds/Enhances/Replaces now, which might be useful. It does IIRC have a new dependency though. [15:33] yes, there will be one initial failure and then multiple follow on reports [15:34] if so we could close them with an apology for the runaround, a note that the initial failure is the real bug, and saying they can reopen if we got it wrong [15:34] I could search for the initial failure and mark the follow ons as dupes but they seems rather complicated. [15:34] Laney: let me know in advance of the new dep if possible, since I'll need to run that through RT [15:34] yeah [15:35] cjwatson: okay sounds good [15:35] maybe link to their +reportedbugs or something [15:36] in fact you could point them at https://bugs.launchpad.net/~/+reportedbugs [15:36] save looking up their id [15:36] anything else? [15:37] Bueller? [15:37] as mentioned I'll set up tarmac [15:37] team-wide [15:38] * cjwatson looks forward to fighting with it ;) [15:38] cool [15:38] :) [15:38] ok, thanks all [15:38] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [15:38] Meeting ended Wed May 16 15:38:30 2012 UTC. [15:38] Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-16-15.07.moin.txt [15:38] Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-16-15.07.html [15:38] thanks! [15:38] thanks cjwatson [15:38] thanks [15:38] \o/ [15:39] thanks! [15:39] thanks [15:39] * xnox 0/ awesome! thank you all =) [15:39] o/ [15:39] stokachu: Updated your merge proposal with a comment, and then fixed it and uploaded, FWIW. [15:39] infinity: awesome thank you! [15:41] infinity: i was following https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff , should i not include .pc files? [15:42] debdiffs certainly won't include them. [15:42] But branches often do. [15:42] It's likely not your "fault", per se. [15:42] That was a minor nit. [15:42] It's the update-maintainer thing you need to remember in future. [15:42] gotcha will make sure to include that [15:43] infinity: if those .pc files aren't a requirement I'll just ignore them on future merge proposals [15:44] Well, they do need to end up in the branch as committed [15:44] So depends on your attitude to MPs really [15:44] ah, seems like there are at least 2 ways to get things merged with either debdiff or merge proposal [15:44] Then I contend that the branch was partially broken already. :P [15:45] i'd rather do whatever is easiest for the reviewer [15:45] Since the MP was creating a file in .pc that already existed. [15:45] stokachu: Do whatever you're most comfy with, every reviewer is different. [15:45] ok :) [15:45] stokachu: I prefer straight patches and debdiffs, others prefer MPs, others prefer carrier pigeons and tiny magnets. Whatever. [15:46] haha sounds good [15:47] (I tend to just cheat and download the diff from the MP anyway, apply it locally, make sute I get a sane/clean debdiff, upload, and mark the MP "merged" without actually merging it, and let the importer sort it out... This likely makes me a Bad Person) [15:49] you should end that workflow with a *FLeX* [20:03] So, are there any Lubuntu-people here? [20:03] o/ [20:03] o/ [20:03] * MrChrisDruif lurks [20:04] * bodhi_zazen lurks [20:04] o/ [20:04] o/ [20:05] On the mailing list it was suggested to try to meet tonight [20:05] having a meeting without agenda [20:05] o/ [20:05] "tonight" is unclear different people are in different time zones ... 08:00 UTC was suggested, I think? [20:05] to see if we could unite the forces [20:05] Is there any member of the lubuntu team that would like to chair this meeting [20:06] i would, but i think i have only twenty minutes [20:06] I'll volunteer if there is no objection from anyone [20:06] Please do! [20:06] m0ergaes; if you want logs, use #startmeeting [20:06] #startmeeting [20:06] Meeting started Wed May 16 20:06:49 2012 UTC. The chair is jmarsden|work. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [20:06] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [20:06] ok [20:07] OK, so we need to figure out some sort of future direction, and we need a new wiki champion, as I understand it. [20:07] #topic wiki champion === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: wiki champion [20:08] Anyone know of any volunteers for that role so far? [20:09] OK. So all we can do for now is make the need known. [20:09] amjjawad might be a great person to do this , he is not available until after at least June 1st [20:09] #action jmarsden|work to email the list asking for volunteer wiki champions [20:09] ACTION: jmarsden|work to email the list asking for volunteer wiki champions [20:09] Well, i think we should have at leats three teams: Wiki team, Devel team and Art team [20:09] *least [20:10] Each team should have a "center" person [20:10] amjjawad has said that he doesn't like wikis, and doesn't understand them though. [20:10] Wiki, or "Docs"? [20:10] Yea, but, I have spoken with him more recently, and there are ways to support him [20:10] There are forum staff waiting to help with moving any documentation currently on the forums to the wiki http://bodhizazen.net/tweaks/ubforums2ubwiki.sh.txt [20:10] http://bodhizazen.net/tweaks/ubforums2ubwiki.sh.txt [20:10] script to convert forums posts -> wiki syntax [20:11] script works well, has been tested [20:12] Sounds like we can let the wiki champion opening go until at least June 1st so amjjawad can provide his input on the subject. [20:12] Moving on to the more general issue... [20:12] #topic future direction === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: future direction [20:12] Guys, i know everyone wants to do something for lubuntu, but IMHO the organization is not clear [20:13] Is not clear who and how much are the developers [20:13] The art team seems is made by rafael only [20:13] o/ [20:13] yes? [20:14] I suggest you encourage community members to be more actively involved [20:14] someone correct me if i'm wrong but isn't julien still developing? just not going to be relaly involved in any sort of communications? [20:14] julien is developing [20:14] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2012-May/001516.html [20:15] Ok, but Julien is not the only developer... [20:15] Correct. And I'm here too, not that I have done a lot of development/packaging recently, but I have not gone away :) [20:16] Officially the lubuntu-dev membership can be seen at https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-dev/+members#active [20:16] 3 developers , or am I reading that wrong ? [20:16] Right. [20:16] yes, plus the Lsc team [20:17] considering so much is upstream i don't see that as disporportionate [20:17] which counts 5 member [20:17] IMO is disproporzionate [20:18] the problem is that each developer cares about his code [20:18] for example pcman fix pcmanfm bugs (which is good, don't misunderstand me) [20:19] but we don't have a real team behavior [20:19] so we come back to encouraging the community to be more actively involved [20:19] ? [20:19] +1 nothingspecial [20:19] encouraging them to be devs will require training [20:19] i'd even like to contribute as a dev but don't feel that i have a good background to do so [20:20] training or reading [20:20] or mentoring? [20:20] any and all but should be clear how to do it [20:20] Learning, not necessarily training... self-study works too. How you get the skills is less important than having them. [20:20] mentoring with expected reading ;p [20:20] I think that if we organize the teams better, we would be able to get more volunteers [20:21] I mean, if a volunteer don't know who talk to to know how to fix a bug, he won't fix it [20:21] (poor example, i admit) [20:21] communication helps [20:22] across the community [20:22] +1 StephenSmally [20:22] rewarding those who contribute, with training / education helps [20:23] StephenSmally: Do you have specific suggestions for how to "organize the teams better"? Either now, or can you write up your ideas and email the list, or put them on a wiki page, or whatever works to get them documented somewhere? [20:23] i will write something on the mailing list [20:23] Great, thanks. [20:23] You can not expect someone to spend 6 hours reading, and 10 hours coding, without some payoff [20:24] developers willing to review code, mentor a little goes a long way [20:24] #action StephenSmally to write up ideas for improved team organization and email the lubuntu-users mailing list [20:24] ACTION: StephenSmally to write up ideas for improved team organization and email the lubuntu-users mailing list [20:24] And you can not expect community without developers talking with users [20:24] bodhi_zazen, what you mean with payoff? [20:24] inviting people, encouraging participation, keeping the dialogue going [20:24] What are you going to do to motivate volunteers to donate hours of their time developing ? [20:25] There are no way you can motivate somebody [20:25] (IMO) [20:25] yes and no [20:25] you can discourage them [20:25] bodhi_zazen: i imagine that julien will still to some degree talk to users [20:25] volunteers leave if they feel they have no voice [20:25] but will likely do it through bug reports [20:26] Is there a backlog of development work? [20:26] will_, not really, or i don't know it [20:26] everyone's motivated by different things [20:26] There's always bug fixes and proposed enhancements, ... to LXDE components and to pcmanfm in particular [20:26] some people are motivated by money, others egalitarianism, e.g. [20:27] jmarsden|work: is that listed anywhere? Like a Bugzilla report? I think that would be helpful to list somewhere on the Dev wikipage [20:27] i suspect that there are plenty of people who would love to code but don't know where to start [20:27] wxl: collaboration is the key [20:27] Also, another problem for developers is that LXDE is currently hosted on git [20:27] i think if we had some sort of even informal mentoring program that would encourage a lot of people [20:27]