[00:11] <soreau> launchpad's millionth bug?
[00:11] <soreau> time to party
[00:31] <shauno> hah, someone had to I guess .. bug 1000000
[00:43] <grogoreo> hi
[00:44] <grogoreo> after upgrading to Gnome 3.4 with the new ubuntu, my title buttons have gone back to the right after setting them to the left in button_layout. Any idea why it won't change?
[01:11] <C-S-B> Anyone around
[05:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Testing and Instrumentation - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/16/testing-and-instrumentation/
[05:38] <AlanBell> bug 1000000
[07:15] <mattt> morning
[07:21] <diplo> Morning
[07:37] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[07:39] <diplo> Morning brobostigon, bit quiet here this morning :)
[07:39] <brobostigon> morning diplo , it is quite early.
[07:43] <MooDoo> morning
[07:43]  * brobostigon was playing with blenders proper 3d modelling last night, and thinks he could get the hang of it.
[07:44] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[08:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> ha, ha, ha bug 1000000
[08:56] <MooDoo> quiet in here again today
[08:58]  * AlanBell tickles MooDoo 
[09:00] <MooDoo> thanks AlanBell just what i needed
[09:01] <MooDoo> cough cough nutter cough cough
[09:01] <MooDoo> join #libertus
[09:01] <MooDoo> oops just curious :)
[09:08] <MooDoo> :D
[09:08] <diplo> We all busy today then ?
[09:09] <MooDoo> diplo: yes [read that as fedup.com] lol
[09:09] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:09] <MooDoo> morning bigcalm
[09:10] <diplo> I'm updating CV/Linkedin/everything else.
[09:10] <diplo> Really ought to start working now
[09:10] <diplo> :)
[09:10] <MooDoo> diplo: looking for something else?
[09:11] <diplo> Yep, want to get back to sysadmin from developing
[09:11] <bigcalm> I want to get back to bed from developing
[09:11] <MooDoo> diplo: where are you again?
[09:13] <diplo> Near Bath
[09:13] <diplo> Our Headoffice at the mo is up near nottingham
[09:13] <MooDoo> diplo: that's what i thought......was going to suggest this - http://jobs.heartinternet.co.uk/#job4
[09:13] <diplo> Really not feeling happy about work and it's one thing i've decided over the last 2 years is I need to be happy
[09:14] <bigcalm> Happiness is key
[09:14] <diplo> heh I'm gutted, I've been emailed about that job as well
[09:14] <diplo> Also one in Leicester for EasyInternet
[09:15] <diplo> Sod all around this area, need to be fairly local because of my kids
[09:15] <diplo> I'd be fine if i was still married, would take stuff in Bristol/Swindon but that's an hour each way and if i need to get kids from School in a rush it could be a problem
[09:19] <MooDoo> diplo: contracting?  create you're own startup.com?
[09:20] <diplo> I've been told to do that a few times
[09:20] <diplo> But I have a house that as a married couple we could barely afford ( she spent to much it seems ) and I now run it on my own, to worried about contracting and not earning enough to keep a house over my kids heads
[09:21] <diplo> I should do it, quite a few friends do but I think I'm just to chicken :)
[09:22] <diplo> I'm debating about doing a lot more private work and actually actively find some work outside of work hours
[09:22] <diplo> Or even totally leave the IT field
[09:22] <MooDoo> diplo: i'm the same, i want to startup.com but i'm too chicken, why do't we all go work for AlanBell :)
[09:23] <diplo> Now that sounds great!
[09:23] <diplo> :P
[09:24] <MooDoo> we're all coming to work for you AlanBell especially seeing as you've got a nice new shiney office ;)
[09:25] <DJones> MooDoo: Don't forget the high speed fibre internet connection at their office
[09:25] <MooDoo> DJones: oooo minecraft on speekd
[09:31] <MooDoo> diplo: you can startup ubuntu-uk support services ltd ;)
[09:31]  * TheOpenSourcerer thinks he might need to talk to AlanBell about recruitment.
[09:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> MooDoo: diplo: we ain't ready yet but do feel free to send us your CV ;-)
[09:32] <diplo> Will do squire!
[09:32] <MooDoo> okey cokey.
[09:36] <diplo> How is life for everyone now we have some conversation going
[09:36] <diplo> Had blue skys earlier, but clouding over now :(
[09:36] <diplo> I wanted a nice bright day today
[09:37] <DJones> We've just had heavy rain after blue sky and now back to blue sky
[09:38] <diplo> Really screwed up weather this year aint it
[09:38] <diplo> God, getting old! talking about weather :(
[09:39] <DJones> GET OFF MY LAWN
[09:41] <MooDoo> it's nice and blue here, just waiting for the clouds :)
[09:43] <diplo> Oooh oooh sun is a coming back!
[09:44] <MooDoo> diplo: you're asleep....WAKE UP
[09:44] <diplo> You had to spoil it, it's gone away now
[09:44] <diplo> :(
[09:44] <MooDoo> heh
[09:56] <s-fox> Hello o/
[09:56] <MooDoo> s-fox: hello :D
[09:56] <s-fox> popey,  i see you are logged into the forums. What do you think of the look?
[09:56] <s-fox> Hello MooDoo  :)
[09:57] <MooDoo> s-fox: how are you
[09:57] <daubers> lo
[09:57] <MooDoo> lo daubers
[10:00] <davmor2> morning all
[10:00] <davmor2> bigcalm: steak and beer tonight dude
[10:01] <bigcalm> \o/
[10:01] <bigcalm> Morning
[10:02] <bigcalm> I bloomin' well need it
[10:02] <MooDoo> hello davmor2
[10:03] <s-fox> dI am okay thank you MooDoo
[10:03] <s-fox>  How are you doing??
[10:03] <davmor2> MooDoo: Morning me owld mucka
[10:03] <bigcalm> Just moved two mattresses about. Now smells like ionised air around here
[10:03] <MooDoo> davmor2: how's it going?
[10:06] <davmor2> MooDoo: round in circles of ever decreasing suffering :D  who needs automated functionality test anyway
[10:07] <MooDoo> davmor2: prod czajkowski, you'll feel better
[10:07] <davmor2> czajkowski: PRODDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[10:07] <davmor2> MooDoo: nope this helps though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-7bQezFZ44
[10:08] <MooDoo> davmor2: yeah seen that, very funny
[10:08] <s-fox> MooDoo,  are you feeling any better?
[10:08] <MooDoo> must be nice to have a mobile phone :S
[10:08] <MooDoo> s-fox: will at 5:30.....:)
[10:11] <DJones> Is anybody here using powerline ethernet devices? Just wondering if you have a couple of devices to connect, do the adapters have more than one connection, or do you just use a spare router/switch
[10:12] <gord> i do, and mine at least have one port per adapter
[10:13] <DJones> That was what I thought, the ones I'd looked at only seemed to have one port, I was hoping to run a connection to a sky receiver and plug a wifi extender into it
[10:20] <JamesTai1> Morning all!
[10:21] <DJones> I guess I could just get something like http://www.amazon.co.uk/7dayshop-200Mbps-HomePlug-Powerline-Ethernet/dp/B004I6AK7A/ref=sr_1_5?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1337163252&sr=1-5 and plug an extender into one of them
[10:21] <gord> when they say "blisteringly fast", they are lying
[10:22] <DJones> Reading the reviews, it doesn't read to good, requires Windows XP to cinfigure them
[10:23] <diplo> I keep debating about them, and then think I'll just pull some cat5e round the house instead
[10:23] <diplo> :)
[10:24] <DJones> gord: What would you expect for blisteringly fast? the 500Mbs versions
[10:26] <davmor2> gord I don't know mine isn't too bad I went for the tplink, the only problem with mine is they are both plugged into extension cables which is a big no no
[10:27] <czajkowski> MooDoo: davmor2 herrro
[10:28] <diplo> Do these power network plugs come with a socket built into them so you can carry on using the sockets guys ?
[10:28]  * MooDoo hugs czajkowski :)
[10:28] <davmor2> diplo: the expensive ones do
[10:29] <MooDoo> czajkowski: oggcamp hotel booked, looks like you get that beer i owe you after all :D
[10:29] <czajkowski> hehe
[10:29] <gord> DJones, you'll get lots of noise on the line, at least in my experience, packet loss is through the roof
[10:30] <diplo> ah so I need to spend money then :) I think I'll stick to cat5e then...
[10:30] <diplo> Not enough sockets in my house as it is
[10:30] <diplo> and a few boxes of cat5e in my garage
[10:30] <MooDoo> diplo: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jM0PTDwWArQ/Rpj0G07YrAI/AAAAAAAAANk/ZV-gX4z_SV0/s400/cat5.JPG
[10:31] <DJones> davmor2: Assuming I got this http://goo.gl/b9HYL (which is the TP AV500), do you just connect one to the broadband router and one somehwere else within the house, they're not just receivers & you have to buy a seperate transmitter
[10:31] <diplo> heh MooDoo
[10:32] <diplo> I wired my back office/kids play room now, and to save going through walls and stuff i ran it around the outside wall ( standard cat5e ), was told that it wouldn't last because of rain/sun/snow/cold etc
[10:32] <diplo> It's been 5 years now
[10:32] <davmor2> DJones: so you need to click on a button to sync them to each other and plug in the cables and that's it
[10:32] <MooDoo> diplo: yeah i did that to my garage where my servers are, and that's been a few years
[10:32] <diplo> So good enough for me, will do other rooms the same now, ready for kids wanting PCs/media centres in there rooms
[10:33] <DJones> davmor2: Thanks, sounds easy enough
[10:33] <davmor2> gord: you need to get your electrics checked dude
[10:53] <diplo> Any of you guys use or develop with the likes of drupal or some other cms ?
[10:53] <diplo> Got a charity here where I work, done a little web work for them but they are stuck on a PR News companies free hosting and want to prep to move or think about it
[10:53] <diplo> http://www.peopleagainstpoverty.com/
[10:54] <diplo> Reckon Drupal or something like it could be layed out like that ?
[10:56] <dogmatic69> what is the easiest way to convert wifi to normal wired? Say I have wifi from downstairs to upstairs, then want to use normal cable to various pc's
[10:57] <directhex> dogmatic69, AP in bridge mode, plug into switch?
[10:58] <bigcalm> diplo: my experience shows to avoid Drupal unless you have a lot of time to work everything out. And don't mind modules breaking between releases
[10:58] <dogmatic69> directhex: thanks
[10:58]  * bigcalm scuttles off for lunch
[10:59] <AlanBell> http://openstandardsroundtable6.eventbrite.co.uk/ rerun of the microsoft corrupted first round table consultation on open standards
[11:00]  * davmor2 pictures bigcalm as zoidburg
[11:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo - Joomla! would probably be easier to do that
[11:00] <diplo> Ah that's the other one I was going to try with.. totally forgotten it
[11:00] <diplo> Thanks!
[11:00] <diplo> Cheers bigcalm
[11:00] <diplo> aswell
[11:01] <diplo> Not promising I'll do it for them, was going to download/template it and see how I got on... then say yes or no
[11:01] <diplo> Any other recommendations will be welcome
[11:03] <diplo> Joomla just installing \o/
[11:03] <diplo> Lunch time job to have a play
[11:03] <AlanBell> could be done in wordpress too
[11:03] <bigcalm> Woop woop woop woop woop woop woop woop
[11:04] <AlanBell> but I would probably go for joomla
[11:04] <diplo> yeah I did think wordpress as well AlanBell, not if it would be suitable.. not a full on cms really is it
[11:04] <diplo> Well that's two people, so I approve :)
[11:05] <AlanBell> you can do quite a bit more CMSish stuff in wordpress than you might expect
[11:06] <diplo> Main thing for me is I don't want to have to support it to much, especially as I'll probably do it for free
[11:06] <diplo> :)
[11:06] <AlanBell> depends a bit on who will be making the content and whether they prefer the back end of workdpress or the back end of joomla!
[11:08] <diplo> yeah, well if you saw what they used now
[11:09] <diplo> Anything would be better
[11:09] <diplo> It is god awful!
[11:09] <diplo> I had to do some horrible hacks to get things to work
[11:10] <bigcalm> My vote would be for Wordpress as I have no experience of Joomla
[11:10]  * bigcalm grabs that sub!
[11:11] <MooDoo> wordpress o/
[11:12] <diplo> Right, going to try both and show them.. Joomla looks nice for a start
[11:13] <diplo> Just got installed, see what the themeing is like first
[11:13] <davmor2> diplo: there is django too
[11:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: Creating templates for Joomla! is fairly easy - easier than for Wordpress.
[11:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> And there are thousands of free ones you can use a base and modify.
[11:14] <diplo> I was going to use your wordpress how to later TheOpenSourcerer or your example anyhoo
[11:14] <diplo> django python based davmor2
[11:14] <diplo> ?
[11:14] <diplo> Heard the name, not looked into it
[11:15] <davmor2> diplo: yeap
[11:15] <davmor2> diplo: https://www.djangoproject.com/
[11:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> I built lots of Joomla! sites.
[11:16] <diplo> My Python knowledge is basic at the moment, so will take a look but it has a lower score from my proficiency point of view :)
[11:16] <diplo> Will take a look though thanks!
[11:16] <diplo> Well so far so good TheOpenSourcerer , creating a template already
[11:16] <diplo> Docs seem quite good
[11:17] <diplo> The company I work for have wrote there own code rather than using one of these projects ( stoopid ) so my only exposure is Wordpress for personal use
[11:18]  * TheOpenSourcerer disappears under the weight of eclipse to work on porting a customer's vtiger system...
[11:23] <davmor2> diplo: the way it was explained to me, wordpress is ideal for a personal blog/small site if you tinker with it you can get some useful features,  django, drupal and joomla are for creating a site from the ground up that is intended to do anything and everything
[11:24] <dogmatic69> anyone seen / used one of these? http://uk.level1.com/product_d.php?id=283
[11:24] <dogmatic69> Thinking of getting one
[11:32] <SuperMatt> ooohkay, I have a libvirt kvm in precise, but I can't select virtio as the diskbus. any ideas?
[11:32] <diplo> Well the latter is more what I think I need to work to davmor2, will grab django tonight and have a look
[11:32] <diplo> Templating joomla now and see how it works
[11:33] <diplo> dogmatic69, Looked at buying the dell equivalent but never did
[11:34] <diplo> But basically it's a 1u/2u rack sserver from what i read before but made specifically for nas
[11:54] <oimon> in facebook, if i comment on a public page, it shows up on my timeline. how do i hide that without deleting the comment?
[11:55] <davmor2> oimon: I didn't think you could other than deleting it
[11:57] <oimon> davmor2, i think that's the case. :( you used to be able to hide the notification on other people's feeds
[12:02]  * bigcalm flumps
[12:03] <bigcalm> Or is that flops?
[12:04] <davmor2> bigcalm: you are eating marshmellow sweets now
[12:04] <bigcalm> Makes for a good lunch
[12:06] <bigcalm> davmor2: shouldn't you be at a wedding ceremony?
[12:07] <davmor2> bigcalm: step-dad to be's lungs are full of fluid so it got postponed till they sort that out
[12:07] <bigcalm> Oh poop
[12:07] <bigcalm> Sorry about that man
[12:07] <davmor2> bigcalm: yeah I said something similar although not so family friendly
[12:09] <bigcalm> What's the choice FTP server these days?
[12:10] <SuperMatt> I'd like to avoid FTP, but wordpress seems to rely on it :(
[12:11] <SuperMatt> although... if you ftp to localhost, is someone likely to be able to sniff passwords?
[12:12] <jpds> bigcalm: openssh sftp ?
[12:12] <jpds> SuperMatt: If they have root, yes.
[12:12] <bigcalm> jpds: I have sftp setup, I need to organise ftp as well
[12:13] <jpds> bigcalm: Don't?
[12:13] <bigcalm> jpds: doesn't answer my original question :)
[12:13] <diplo> I always used to use vsftpd
[12:13] <diplo> But I've stopped using any now
[12:14] <diplo> Can see what my webhost uses if you like ?
[12:14] <diplo> PureFTPD
[12:15] <davmor2> bigcalm: proftpd but to be honest if you have sftp in place why bother
[12:17] <directhex> SuperMatt, ftp is totally sniffable. it's insecure by design
[12:18] <directhex> SuperMatt, only by using basic-level FTPS (encrypted control channel, unencrypted data channel) can you do safe password exchange
[12:20] <SuperMatt> bugs me, it does
[12:20] <SuperMatt> stupid wordpress
[12:21] <bigcalm> I've set up sftp for a client but something is odd with routing at the moment so that they can't connect. The alternative is to use FTP over the VPN they have with my client's server
[12:23] <bigcalm> I'd rather they could use SFTP. It's down to Rackspace sorting out their routing troubles
[12:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone else getting 12.04 moving windows about randomly? I was sure I had a terminal window open in workspace 3 then it made a re-appearance in #2 !
[12:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Of course clicking on the terminal icon in the launcher didn't help to find it either :-(
[12:43] <diplo> Stopped using workspaces, so sorry don't know.. can try and replicate if you want ?
[12:45] <diplo> My biggest issue is compiz using lots of CPU all the time with Precise ( Unity really )
[12:46] <diplo> I'm going to grab Cinnamon again now actually
[12:58] <bigcalm> I'm now up to 8 work spaces on my laptop :D
[13:00] <bigcalm> mrevell: good afternoon. Joining us tomorrow?
[13:00] <mrevell> bigcalm, Errrrrrm. Not sure yet.
[13:00] <bigcalm> Heh
[13:00] <mrevell> I hope to.
[13:01] <bigcalm> I've decided to drive in. So if you want to stick around for the whole day, happy to give you a lift
[13:02] <diplo> I just use dual screens and terminator
[13:02] <diplo> I don't seem to have the user case
[13:02] <diplo> + have a laptop dual screen setup on the go
[13:06] <Knightwise> Hmm. i just ordered a solid state drive for my 2009 macbook air.
[13:07] <Knightwise> hoping that it will be fast enough to run precise smoothly
[13:09] <SuperMatt> is the global application menu optional in precise?
[13:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: As long as you don't complain when it breaks probably ;-)
[13:11] <SuperMatt> ah, it didn't land in precise
[13:11] <SuperMatt> I'm still not sure where I stand on it
[13:12] <bigcalm> diplo: dual screens doesn't work on my laptop sadly, hence the abundance of workspaces. The laptop is only for out of office work. So in the office I have 6 work spaces on each of my 3 monitors. I'm a greedy bugger
[13:12] <diplo> What do you use them all for?!?!?
[13:13] <SuperMatt> personally, I think that the menu should have options (global - always visible, global - mouse over, standard)
[13:13] <diplo> I thought I was bad for having stuff open
[13:13] <bigcalm> :D
[13:13] <bigcalm> I'll admit that the central monitor never changes from the 1st workspace - has my IDE on it
[13:13] <bigcalm> But I have multiple browsers, email, terminals, spotify, etc on the others
[13:15] <diplo> :)
[13:30] <hamitron> TheOpenSourcerer, did you fix your nvida issue?
[13:30] <hamitron> nvidia*
[13:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> I haven't even looked at it today and *I* am not certain it is nvidia anyway.
[13:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> That was MartijnVdS who suspected it was nvidia's problem.
[13:32] <hamitron> well, I saw nvidia have confirmed a bug in 295.40
[13:33] <hamitron> they've released a new version to solve it, so thought I'd let you know what I'd read
[13:53] <agoodm> regarding the sip jitter buffer; does anyone know how to see its 'settings' ie the current buffer size, max possible size etc?
[14:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone know where a user's VPN configs for network manager are stored in ~ ?
[14:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> Can I just copy them back from a backup of my old home dir?
[14:06] <DJones> Heh http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3patjo/ I think I've seen that shirt in a picture recently
[14:07] <gord> DJones, was it a magic eye?
[14:07] <DJones> It was something
[14:10]  * bigcalm shakes his head
[14:12] <AlanBell> afternoon nap time again
[14:12] <directhex> mmmmm nap time...
[14:13] <christel> :o
[14:13] <christel> AlanBell: do you have a bed at your new office?
[14:14] <AlanBell> I am not there today
[14:14] <christel> aha
[14:14] <AlanBell> and no ;)
[14:14] <christel> hehe
[14:19] <bigcalm> Just remembered that we're seeing Stewart Francis do stand-up a week today. A nice surprise to cheer up my afternoon
[15:25] <bigcalm> 3 hours until beer o'clock
[15:25] <bigcalm> Time is slowing down
[15:25] <diplo> bigcalm, I have just been advised the same thing \o/
[15:26] <bigcalm> Attending the LUG is my excuse for a drink
[15:26] <bigcalm> :)
[15:26] <bigcalm> Oh, and steak
[15:26] <bigcalm> Long live LUG meetings in pubs!
[15:26] <diplo> heh, friend telling me I need to have food/pint is good enough for me :)
[15:27] <bigcalm> Heh
[15:27] <diplo> Two local lugs to me are 50 min drives away
[15:27] <bigcalm> That's a good friend indeed :)
[15:27] <bigcalm> Mine is a 40ish min drive
[15:27] <diplo> oh, so a pint is it then
[15:27] <diplo> I have a mile/ mile and a half walk into town
[15:28] <bigcalm> Well, the local one (Shropshire) would be about 20 mins. But I prefer attending Wolves LUG instead
[15:29] <diplo> Can't drink too much anyhoo
[15:30] <diplo> Got to get up early and pick my parents up from Heathrow :(
[15:45] <dogmatic69> Settings -> Display -> stick edges... most annoying feature ever
[15:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> nah... Most annoying is not being able to find windows easily without using keyboard commands...
[15:50] <diplo> :D
[15:50] <diplo> Just moved back to cinnamon, I'm happier already
[15:50] <diplo> :)
[15:51] <diplo> Will give Unity a go again start of next month.
[15:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> I am tempted to install the gnome-fallback jobby and try that.
[15:52] <diplo> not tried it yet
[15:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> The other annoying this is those stupid pop-up sliders. Why oh why...
[15:54] <ali1234> because not enough people complained about it when it was introduced a year ago
[15:56] <ali1234> remember, when you go to complain on launchpad and mailing lists, that feature is called overlay scrollbar
[15:57] <diplo> Right off home. Catch you laters.
[15:58] <dogmatic69> anyone know how to adjust the workspaces?
[15:58] <dogmatic69> I have done this http://askubuntu.com/questions/59559/how-to-configure-workspace-layout
[15:58] <dogmatic69> compiz settings manager, but cant find it
[16:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> CCSM->General->General Options->Desktop Size
[16:00] <keith__> can anybody help with a technical problem?
[16:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> !ask
[16:00] <ali1234> is it a really technical problem?
[16:00] <keith__> Yes!!
[16:01]  * DJones watches as the channel quickly empties
[16:01] <dogmatic69> TheOpenSourcerer: ah... its General -> General options...
[16:01] <DJones> dogmatic69: The number of workspaces?
[16:01] <dogmatic69> DJones: its normally 2x2, I got 2x screens so just want 2x1
[16:02] <ali1234> on a scale of 1 to 10, how technical is it?
[16:02] <DJones> I installed myunity that does the job brilliantly
[16:02] <DJones> from the normal repo's
[16:02] <DJones> Various settings for changing Unity
[16:02] <keith__> well I can't load 12.01 on my lap top so I guess 10
[16:03] <bigcalm> I suggest you try 12.04 instead then ;)
[16:03] <ali1234> why can't you load it?
[16:04] <ali1234> no CD drive?
[16:04] <dogmatic69> hehe
[16:04] <DJones> keith__: Can you give us a bit more detail, laptop model, specifications and what happens when you try to load/install it
[16:04] <dogmatic69> ali1234: he's missing disk 42
[16:05] <keith__> sorry meant 12.04 - used to run 11.11 through winds 7 tried updating to 12.04 - now nothing
[16:06] <dogmatic69> keith__: a little more detailed description than 'nothing' would help anyone trying to help you
[16:06] <DJones> 1121123212132123421/
[16:07] <DJones> dammed locked screen
[16:07] <keith__> Yeah OK. having selected Ubuntu off the grub / laoder menu the start up just freezes
[16:08] <DJones> keith__: Is this a full install, or was it done via windows using Wubi? (With you saying you used to run 11.10 through Win 7 makes me wonder about wubi
[16:09] <keith__> Yeah it was wubi, obviously I could re-install but do not want to loose my files
[16:10] <dogmatic69> keith__: you can use the live cd to backup everything
[16:10] <DJones> I've never used wubi, I don't know whether that makes any difference to how ubuntu starts up
[16:10] <keith__> Ok I will try that first - Thanks for the advice
[16:11] <DJones> Do you just get a black screen after you select ubuntu from the grub menu
[16:11] <ali1234> wubi changes everything about how ubuntu starts up
[16:11] <ali1234> also you can't access it with a livecd
[16:11] <dogmatic69> :/
[16:12] <keith__> Not what i would call a black screen, it attemps to load but just freezes on the multi coloured screen
[16:13] <dogmatic69> keith__: multi coloured... is that something that flashes different colours?
[16:13] <dogmatic69> I have that on my server when booting sometimes
[16:14] <keith__> Yes, but no flashing
[16:15] <ali1234> who wants to help me hunt bugs in gnome classic session?
[16:24] <ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: i just found compiz has a preference for viewport switching to make the monitors independent
[16:24] <hamitron> gnome classic?
[16:24] <ali1234> it just doesn't work with nvidia, but it should do with others
[16:25] <hamitron> has anyone got a beginners guide to unity?
[16:25]  * hamitron is struggling
[16:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> hmm - ali1234 I thought I tried that the other day on my lappy without success.
[16:25] <ali1234> maybe it doesn't work at all
[16:27] <davmor2> hamitron: what are you trying to accomplish
[16:27] <hamitron> I want to see what apps are installed
[16:29] <hamitron> is there not a menu somewhere?
[16:29] <ali1234> yeah
[16:29] <ali1234> you have to open the dash then go to the application lens then open the filter menu then select all the filters, then it gives you a huge unordered list of everything that is installed
[16:29] <ali1234> it's basically worse than useless
[16:30] <ali1234> and extremely difficult to find and use
[16:30] <hamitron> I think I'll have to change how I work
[16:30] <hamitron> but could be interesting
[16:30] <hamitron> :)
[16:31] <hamitron> application lens?
[16:32] <hamitron> ah, I see
[16:32] <bigcalm> Yeah, lenses are the icons along the bottom of the dashboard. Sadly none of them have names
[16:33] <ali1234> actually they all have names
[16:33] <ali1234> you are supposed to just know what they are called
[16:33] <hamitron> the 2nd one? ;/
[16:33] <bigcalm> Ahem
[16:33] <ali1234> right
[16:33] <bigcalm> "visible" names :P
[16:33] <ali1234> the one that looks like a bookshelf or something
[16:33] <bigcalm> hamitron: correct
[16:33] <ali1234> visible names are bad!
[16:33] <hamitron> bigcalm, I'm a fast learner ;)
[16:34] <ali1234> indescribable abstract shapes are much better
[16:34] <bigcalm> 2 hours to beer o'clock
[16:35] <bigcalm> Time _has_ slowed down :(
[16:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: I blame you for that, you're the the talking beer clock
[16:36] <ali1234> which package provides the classic style menu?
[16:36] <hamitron> bbl, gonna need to feed myself before learning this :)
[16:36] <davmor2> hamitron: if you want a nice shortcut for things hold down the windows key and it pops up an overlay of shortcuts to get through things with keypresses
[16:38] <davmor2> hamitron: also if you have a plain desktop in view if you go to the top there is a menu and there is a help section that acts as a fairly good manual
[16:57] <ali1234> bug 1000323
[16:57] <ali1234> bug 1000343
[16:57] <hamitron> davmor2, thanks
[16:58] <davmor2> hamitron: pleasure
[16:58] <czajkowski> some tweet love or rehsaring would be great on https://plus.google.com/109129028036222996031/posts/RaCZ1wTP2Rd
[17:03] <hambuntu> heh
[17:03] <hambuntu> is there a trick to resizing a window?
[17:04] <davmor2> hambuntu: bottom righthand corner
[17:04] <hambuntu> left mouse button?
[17:04] <davmor2> yeap
[17:05] <hambuntu> the icon changes like it should resize
[17:05] <hambuntu> and changes back when I click
[17:05] <davmor2> hambuntu: yeap you hold the left mouse and then move to where ever
[17:06] <hambuntu> hmmmm
[17:06] <davmor2> hambuntu: or you can drag to the side and have it fill one side of the screen or the top and have it fill the page
[17:06] <hambuntu> I wish it did
[17:07] <hambuntu> the top right works
[17:07] <hambuntu> haha
[17:07] <hambuntu> sides and bottom right just aren't working
[17:08]  * hambuntu is lacking mouse control badly?
[17:08] <bigcalm> Bit of an unfortunate host name you're connecting from
[17:08] <hambuntu> it is cool ;/
[17:14] <hambuntu> try a restart I suppose
[17:14] <hambuntu> brb
[17:45] <dogmatic69> \o/ 12.04 remembers what apps where open in which workspace
[17:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> orly?
[17:46] <bigcalm> Just in case anybody had forgotten how wonderfully silly the internet can be, an old video from Cryiak Harris: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WQO-aOdJLiw
[17:46] <dogmatic69> ye, that was one of my reasons for not using them.
[17:47] <dogmatic69> also like having the unity bar in all screens. on windows and ubuntu 10.10 etc it only showed the main bar on the main screen
[17:47] <hamitron> alt and middle button to resize \o/
[17:47] <hamitron> problem solved
[17:50] <ali1234> alt+middle button works in gnome too
[17:50] <ali1234> you know why no one knows this? because given the choice it's a sub-optimal way to resize windows
[17:50] <hamitron> yeh, but the borders where not too small before, so never needed to know ;)
[17:50] <ali1234> exactly
[17:50] <hamitron> so it wasn't just me been a newb? unable to hit them :D
[17:51] <ali1234> it's a known bug that has been fixed several times, but just keeps coming back
[17:51] <hamitron> ah, k
[17:51] <hamitron> can it be fixed with a chunky theme?
[17:51] <ali1234> no, because no such theme exists
[17:51] <ali1234> gtk3 only has 3 themes
[17:51] <hamitron> :/
[17:52] <ali1234> ambiance, radiance, and whatever gnome shell uses
[17:52] <hamitron> I'd have looked, only I can't find anything atm
[17:52] <hamitron> :/
[17:52] <ali1234> you need to install gnome-tweak-tool to configure themes
[17:52] <ali1234> which is why gtk3 has no themes: there's no way to change it anyway
[17:53] <hamitron> well, it has to work with default settings, or unity "gets it"
[17:53] <hamitron> ;)
[17:54] <hamitron> but I gotta give it a chance
[17:54] <hamitron> gotta say, it feels easier to work with apps on different desktops
[18:04] <hamitron> cool, the unity panel on the left went invisible
[18:04] <hamitron> ;/
[18:05] <hamitron> now to work out how I did that
[18:05] <hamitron> oh, the whole thing is gone
[18:05] <ali1234> probably crashed
[18:05]  * hamitron sighs
[18:06] <hamitron> reminds me of windows 95
[18:06] <ali1234> ctrl-alt-f1, login, export DISPLAY=:0, metacity --replace && gnome-panel
[18:11] <hamitron> didn't get there
[18:11] <hamitron> hehe
[18:44] <hamitron> seems easier to drag borders with 3d working
[18:45] <hamitron> :D
[18:56] <AlanBell> hamitron: it is, the shadow is draggable
[18:56] <hamitron> ah :)
[18:56] <AlanBell> 3d working is the way forward
[18:56] <hamitron> well, I got other issues to fix with 3d
[18:57] <hamitron> like how slow it is
[18:57] <hamitron> I read it should just work in vmware workstation 8
[18:57] <AlanBell> on lots of machines it is faster
[18:57] <AlanBell> because it actually uses the bit the graphics card is good at
[18:58] <hamitron> I assume when it isn't 3d, it is using unity-2d?
[18:58] <AlanBell> dunno about vmware, but in virtualbox it works fine if you install virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 in the guest
[18:58] <AlanBell> and check the checkbox in the VM settings to allow accellerated 3d
[18:58] <hamitron> yeh, done that
[18:58] <andylockran-lapt> howto
[18:59] <hamitron> it has got 3d now
[18:59] <hamitron> just slow
[18:59] <AlanBell> this time it is using unity2d if it can't do 3d, but in Quetzal it will use 3d via a software renderer
[18:59] <hamitron> ah, I see
[18:59] <AlanBell> llvm pipes or something
[18:59] <hamitron> my next question was.... "why is unity-2d been removed?"
[18:59] <hamitron> ;)
[18:59] <AlanBell> two codepaths to maintain
[19:00] <hamitron> yeh, but I was wondering about the comps that can't do 3d
[19:00] <hamitron> but you answered that
[19:00] <hamitron> :D
[19:00] <AlanBell> it wasn't clear at the time which was the way to go so they paid to back both horses for a while
[19:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> My kids machine is dire after the upgrade - I ask it to load hardware drivers but it doesn't see the gpu - it's quite an old nvidia board on a standard PCI
[19:01] <ahayzen> ... what is going to happen to ARM and Ubuntu TV? as i thought these were going to be based on Unity-2D ?
[19:01] <AlanBell> :( I just have Intel on all machines in the house and they just work
[19:01] <hamitron> I read the open source drivers are faster than nvidia drivers on old cards
[19:01] <AlanBell> ahayzen: they get the 3d awesomeness
[19:01] <hamitron> not tried it yet
[19:01] <ahayzen> via the llvm pipes?
[19:01] <hamitron> I would have, only you dropped support for my cpu ;)
[19:01] <AlanBell> some of the unity2d QML niceness will be added to stuff in 3d I think
[19:02] <AlanBell> ahayzen: ARM GPUs can generally do the openGL ES stuff (I think I got that right)
[19:02] <AlanBell> so most of it will be accellerated
[19:03] <ahayzen> ok :)... its just older hardware that is the issue now
[19:03] <AlanBell> really old hardware
[19:04] <ahayzen> bring on Wayland :)
[19:04] <AlanBell> anything with an Atom chip is basically fine
[19:04]  * hamitron comforts his VIA C3
[19:04]  * AlanBell has an OLPC with an unsupported CPU
[19:04] <andylockran>  any recommendations on a CMS platform that's easy to theme?
[19:05] <andylockran> just needs pages, categories, tags and news.
[19:05] <andylockran> contemplating wordpress.
[19:05] <andylockran> but would ideally like a template system lke twig
[19:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> andylockran Joomla! is my fave.
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> poor you
[19:06] <ali1234> yeah he said easy though
[19:06] <ali1234> so wordpress
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: don't tell any sysadmins :)
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: or dbas
[19:07] <AlanBell> joomla is easy to theme
[19:07] <AlanBell> wordpress is slightly easier to use
[19:08] <AlanBell> both must be updated constantly or bad things will happen due to the architectural failure of PHP
[19:08] <ali1234> it's not an architectural failure of php
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Joomla retrieves all database contents twice and filters client-side instead of using proper queries
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: by default
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: hence crying DBAs as the site gets bigger
[19:09] <ali1234> there are plenty of other languages that have "better" architecture
[19:09] <ali1234> but nobody uses them
[19:09] <ali1234> this is a failure of web developers
[19:10] <oimon1> evning all. what's the process for getting openvpn client to show under the network manager in 12.04 please?
[19:10] <AlanBell> sure
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> oimon1: network-manager-openvpn-gnome
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> oimon1: install that & it'll show up
[19:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Does that apply in Joomla! 2.5
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: All versions
[19:11] <oimon1> MartijnVdS: fantastic. thanks. wonder why it doesn't show in the ubuntu software centre under "openvpn"
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: according to him, his patches to fix it keep getting rejected because "that's not what the database is for" or something
[19:11] <andylockran-lapt> ali1234: what other language would you recommend?
[19:11] <ali1234> andylockran-lapt: any, except perl
[19:12] <andylockran-lapt> what's wrong with perl?
[19:12] <oimon1> oh, it does, i just have to remember to click "technical items" :-\
[19:12] <oimon1> that thing gets me every time
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> andylockran-lapt: Nothing is wrong with Perl
[19:12] <ali1234> where to start
[19:12] <ali1234> firstly, the lack of named arguments to function
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> andylockran-lapt: just pass a hash
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> uhr
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell:
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> ali1234:
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> AAGH
[19:12] <ali1234> this is the biggest cause of perl code being unreadable
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> too many A<tab> :)
[19:13] <ali1234> when every function takes a single argument, which is an array of all the arguments that the function takes
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: At work, we've made hash-of-arguments mandatory
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> so %args = @_; \o/ unpacked
[19:13] <ali1234> that actually does't help at all
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> it does actuall
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> y
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> we also use a library to validate input for that
[19:14] <ali1234> the next biggest problem with perl is that perl programmers abuse regular expressions for everything
[19:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone have any bright ideas why Thunderbird is automatically marking emails as read in one of my Inboxes? It's really getting on my nerves.
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: also a policy/best practices thing
[19:15] <ali1234> another problem with perl is that you can redefine the language too much
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: you have another client (web mail?) open on that mailbox
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: same with python
[19:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have checked the obvious settings...
[19:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not to my knowledge no.
[19:15] <ali1234> so some person like me doesn't like lack of named arguments to function - ok, well i can just redefine the language so that functions have named arguments
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: that's what shared libraries are for
[19:15] <ali1234> and now i'm no longer writing perl code, i'm writing some butchered language that nobody in the whole world but me can understand
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> \o/ libraries
[19:16] <ali1234> this isn't actually all that different from writing perl code to start with, which is why this reason only comes in at number 3 n my list rather than number 1
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: yeah because foo(bar => 'baz') isn't like any other perl AT ALL
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> oh wait
[19:17] <ali1234> number 4 - use strict
[19:17] <ali1234> why does every perl program begin with this line? it's like some prayer to the perl gods
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's because they made a mistake in earlier Perl versions
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: theyre considering making it default in 5.16-18
[19:19] <andylockran-lapt> ok, so perl is out...
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> andylockran-lapt: nah, Perl isn't out.
[19:19] <AlanBell> you should never ever be in a position where you are wondering what language to use
[19:20] <AlanBell> this should be dictated by the thing that you want to work on/add to
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: also, using Moose implies strict and warnings, so you can just "use Moose;" and be done :)
[19:20] <andylockran-lapt> AlanBell: valid point.
[19:20] <ali1234> i find it is more motivated by how much you respect the client :)
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git/blob/HEAD:/pod/perldelta.pod
[19:20] <AlanBell> if you are starting a new major project from scratch then you should already *know* what the best language is, and know that everyone else is wrong
[19:21] <ali1234> if you are on good terms with the client, use python. if you don't care, use php, and if you actively want to destroy their business, use perl
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I'd swap Perl and PHP in that
[19:22] <jacobw> php /o\
[19:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: I think you are being rather too cynical. Millions of web-sites run PHP without major issue.
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: ?-s
[19:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> I suggest it is more likely down to poor sysadmin/maintenance
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Millions of PCs run on WIndows without major issue :)
[19:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> orly?
[19:23] <AlanBell> and it is basically the same as ASP in terms of mixing code and html
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Just because it's popular, doesn't make it good
[19:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Never heard that one before.
[19:23] <ali1234> no, but popularity makes it cheap
[19:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> I never said it was good or bad. Just that it is used happily by many.
[19:24] <ali1234> if you write some broken php code then there are a million developers out there who will fix it
[19:24] <ali1234> if you write some broken perl code, nobody in the world can fix it except you
[19:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> I know a Perl bloke. Lives near here. Runs the Jobsite site.
[19:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Senior Architect.
[19:25] <ali1234> aaaaand another thing
[19:25] <ali1234> this conversation started because someone wanted an easily themeable CMS right?
[19:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Plone :-)
[19:26] <ali1234> well, what does programming language have to do with it? you won't be writing any php code in the process of theming a wordpress
[19:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, not too sure about that - I had to do quite a bit to write a WP theme.
[19:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> More than with Joomla!
[19:27] <AlanBell> http://codex.wordpress.org/The_Loop
[19:27] <AlanBell> the theme is a PHP loop
[19:27] <AlanBell> it isn't hard, and the language itself is OK
[19:27] <AlanBell> the bit I don't like is that everything lives in a comment in an HTML page
[19:28] <ali1234> that's not actually got much to do with theming
[19:28] <ali1234> theme templates - yes
[19:28] <ali1234> but when you come to make your own theme, you start with an existing one and just modify the css
[19:28] <Azelphur> ali1234: there is PHP in the process of theming wordpress
[19:28] <Azelphur> just not a lot of it
[19:29] <AlanBell> true, and there are several zillion themes out there to use
[19:29] <ali1234> if you really need some kind of complex template system for theming i'm sure you could write one, if you wanted. it isn't necessary to do it though
[19:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Here's a good one: http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/open-sourcerer ;-)
[19:33] <ali1234> how do you make gtk themes?
[19:33] <ali1234> all the documentation i can find is for gtk 2
[19:34] <jacobw> css
[19:34] <jacobw> http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=gtk3%20css&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFkQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdesktopsummit.org%2Fsites%2Fwww.desktopsummit.org%2Ffiles%2FTheming%2520GTK3%2520Widgets%2520with%2520CSS.pdf&ei=NgG0T6r9I5Pe8QPbu9HACQ&usg=AFQjCNEiO_JoTSSC59zWuh0qmYZIIi_LUQ&cad=rja
[19:34] <jacobw> ack
[19:34] <ali1234> blarg
[19:37] <mrevell> bigcalm, Turns out, no car for me, so no co-work
[20:25] <brobostigon> svn: OPTIONS of 'https://svn.blender.org/svnroot/bf-blender/trunk/blender': Certificate verification error: signed using insecure algorithm (https://svn.blender.org)
[20:26] <daftykins> neat! :)
[20:26] <brobostigon> any one know how to resolve that ? thwn i try anc checkout. according to the blender site.?
[20:36] <mattt> yeah
[20:36] <mattt> move to git
[20:36] <mattt> *kidding*
[20:36] <andylockran-lapt> well tonight has been a fail
[20:39] <mattt> brobostigon: http://linux-knowledgebase.com/en/Tip_of_the_day/December/Certificate_verification_error%253A_signed_using_insecure_algorithm
[20:39] <mattt> brobostigon: http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?254565-Certificate-verification-error-(https-svn.blender.org)
[20:39] <brobostigon> mattt: i just found a thread on the blender forums also.
[20:40] <mattt> hehehe
[20:40] <mattt> probably same one
[20:40] <brobostigon> yes.
[20:40] <AlanBell> gord: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-accessibility/2012-May/006096.html
[20:42] <brobostigon> mattt: it is the same.
[20:47] <mattt> brobostigon: did it work?
[20:47] <brobostigon> mattt: yes, adding that entry, into ~/.subversion/servers
[21:07] <bigcalm_laptop> Cooiee
[21:14] <brobostigon> blender should be fairly quick to compile, it is quite small.
[22:06] <dogmatic69> is there something like htop for I/O
[22:08] <ali1234> iotop?
[22:10] <mattt> yeh, iotop
[22:10] <dogmatic69> lol
[22:10] <dogmatic69> I should have guessed that one
[22:12] <dogmatic69> :)
[22:12] <dogmatic69> not quite as advanced as htop
[22:21] <dogmatic69> ever since I plugged in my second monitor and started using twinview windows are opening up tiny
[22:24] <dogmatic69> eg: http://i.imgur.com/AtF9V.png
[22:24] <dogmatic69> its only windows inside apps, not the apps themselves.
[22:24] <dogmatic69> seems to happen with most / all apps