[01:18] <jjesse> i'm getting weird power issues tonight at home as well
[01:19] <jjesse> wrong channel sorry
[11:27] <locodir-user> just updating those who helped me (though it is likely you dont care). I was able to reset my password by pushing shift while booting and getting a root terminal. passwd $username and it would let you reset it. This seems very insecure, any way to change that?
[11:30] <rick_h_> locodir-user: if they can do that, they have to have access to your machine. If they've got that access, then they can just pull the hard drive anyway so it's kind of a moot point
[11:30] <rick_h_> locodir-user: however, yes, you can set passwords on the computer on boot, and on the grub menu I believe, as well as doing things like encrypting your hard drive
[11:31] <rick_h_> but honestly, it's a bit much for a new user to go through so I'd not suggest it until you get used to things a bit more
[11:57] <brousch> so tired
[11:57] <brousch> the boy woke up at 3AM and thought it was morning. he went stomping around the house and then settled down to play with his computer
[11:57] <brousch> time to get him a clock
[12:03] <rick_h_> ugh
[12:09] <shakes808> good morning
[12:10] <rick_h_> party
[12:11] <shakes808> I just realized that I left my backpack at home :(
[12:12] <shakes808> Good thing there is a lot of time :D
[12:12] <brousch> use snap-l's
[12:13] <shakes808> HA HA
[12:13] <shakes808> It would give me a chance to try out a good computer ;)
[12:13] <shakes808> then again, almost anything is better than Dell
[12:16] <locodir-user> rick_h_: I would like to secure my computer from members of my family and while they wont take out a hard  drive of my laptop they will try to get the password that is why i as.
[12:16] <locodir-user> *ask
[12:17] <rick_h_> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/73703
[12:18] <rick_h_> locodir-user: lots of ways of disabling/locking down single user mode
[12:18] <rick_h_> but again, remember that it helped you get back into your machine. I don't know you family is going to be google'ing single user mode linux
[12:18] <rick_h_> but understand
[12:21] <locodir-user> true so you advise that i leave it until i am more familiar with linux?
[12:22] <rick_h_> I would personally
[12:23] <rick_h_> but it's up to you
[12:24] <locodir-user> well looking through that link it looks like editing files that i would have trouble finding (that is not how windows is) so i will leave it
[12:26] <locodir-user> thank you for all your help :)
[12:26] <rick_h_> locodir-user: no problem, welcome to linux/ubuntu and hope you find it useful
[13:06] <snap-l> Good morning
[13:12] <rick_h_> morning snap-l
[13:12] <shakes808> morning
[13:13] <shakes808> I know this is a Ubuntu chat, but...
[13:13] <shakes808> Has anyone heard about the new Windows Server?
[13:13] <rick_h_> I try hard not to
[13:13] <shakes808> lol
[13:14] <shakes808> Well I guess they are going to make the server look like Win 8 which is stupid because a PC shouldn't look like a phone and phone apps.
[13:14] <shakes808> IMO
[13:15] <snap-l> shakes808: I for one welcome Metro
[13:15] <snap-l> I think Microsoft Bob's time has come
[13:16] <shakes808> Metro?
[13:16] <shakes808> Microsoft Bob's?
[13:16] <shakes808> What are you talking about snap-l
[13:17] <brousch> metro is the win8 UI
[13:17] <brousch> microsoft bob was the greatest piece of software ever produced by MS
[13:17] <shakes808> Alright. Thank you brousch
[13:18] <shakes808> snap-l: Why do you like the phone UI for a PC idea?
[13:20] <brousch> a touchscreen interface on the server will save the cost and space required by a keyboard
[13:20] <brousch> this is valuable space that couple be used for more servers in the rack
[13:21] <shakes808> 1. A rack mounted computer takes up 1U
[13:21] <shakes808> 2. You can SSH into it
[13:21] <shakes808> 3. You can Serial into it
[13:21] <shakes808> The space saved isn't really an issue
[13:22] <brousch> the touchscreen interface will be preferred when you no longer have a desktop or laptop. you will remote in from your wintablet
[13:22] <shakes808> I know my knowledge of server happenings is limited, but I don't think that it would be beneficial to put a technical person on a dumbed down UI
[13:23] <brousch> ever tried using VNC on a tablet to access windows?
[13:23] <snap-l> http://m.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/05/google-schmidt-page-damages/
[13:23] <shakes808> nope
[13:23] <brousch> not fun
[13:23] <snap-l> But Judge Alsup wasn’t convinced. He told the court he had learned to code in Java for the trial — implying that he knew other languages as well — and he said that he had written some of the infringing code at least a hundred times since Oracle filed its suit in August 2010. “I can do it. You can do it. It’s so simple,” he said, adding that it takes less than five minutes. Then looked
[13:23] <snap-l> directly at Boies. “You’re one of the best lawyers in America — how can you make that argument?” he demanded.
[13:23] <snap-l> <3 <3 <3
[13:31] <shakes808> interesting
[13:32] <shakes808> brousch: like I mentioned, I haven't had that much experience but the experience I do have would tell me that I don't think I would like it.
[13:32] <shakes808> I will have my buddy set it up on his server and I will try it ;)
[13:33] <brousch> linux admins and windows admins think differently
[13:47] <rick_h_> gah, I'm going to kill someone
[13:48]  * brousch hopes rick_h_ is at the coffee shop today
[13:48] <rick_h_> I am...but heading home soon so I can turn tihs REST discussion into a google handout where it'll be harder to hide my cranky face
[13:49] <brousch> well kill someone before you leave
[13:52] <rick_h_> oh good grief this just gets worse and worse
[15:34] <jrwren> shakes808: windows server always follows desktop linux.
[15:34] <jrwren> 09:22  shakes80| I know my knowledge of server happenings is limited, but I don't think that it would be beneficial to put a technical person  on a dumbed down UI
[15:34] <jrwren> you've heard of microsoft windows, right? :)
[15:35] <shakes808> jrwren: lol yes
[15:36] <shakes808> If Win follows Linux, where is there a Linux that looks like that?
[15:36] <jrwren> it is by definition a dumbed down UI for technical people.
[15:36] <jrwren> jrwren: lol, that was a total brain mistake.
[15:36] <jrwren> shakes808: windows server always follows desktop windows.
[15:36] <shakes808> lol
[15:36] <jrwren> sorry.
[15:37] <shakes808> talking to your self again? lol
[15:38] <shakes808> As long as you don't answer back ;)
[15:41] <jrwren> you realize that metro is just a replacement for the start menu on desktop windows and server windows ?
[15:42] <jrwren> as soon as you run a desktop app e.g. server manager, it won't be metro.
[15:42] <jjesse> metro won't be on windows server will it?
[15:42] <jjesse> if so that is news to me
[15:43] <snap-l> jjesse: They're threatening to do it.
[15:43] <jjesse> really that seems odd
[15:43] <snap-l> jjesse: Not really. I think they're looking for interface parity across all of Windows
[15:43] <snap-l> which will be interesting
[15:44] <snap-l> reminds me a bit of the administration utilities on HP-UX
[15:45] <snap-l> Anything to make administration that much easier.
[15:45] <jjesse> a quick google shows that it might be possible to build a "control panel" w/ quick links to frequently used tools + build a "dashboard" to show stats etc
[15:47] <nixternal> http://main.diabetes.org/goto/nixternal - yeah buddy, I just spammed your channel. NOW DONATE! :)  <3  if snap-l helped last year, the rest of you can help this year!
[15:48] <jrwren> its simple.
[15:48] <brousch> nixternal: you just ride a bike and i pay you?
[15:48] <nixternal> you know it
[15:48] <jrwren> windows server and desktop have the same explorer.exe
[15:48] <jrwren> the start menu part of explorer.exe IS metro.
[15:48] <brousch> i'll need more than that
[15:48] <nixternal> i will ride naked
[15:48] <jrwren> server gets metro because tehre is no more start menu in desktop
[15:48] <brousch> can i opt out of the photo tier?
[15:48] <snap-l> nixternal: I will pay to keep you clothed.
[15:48] <nixternal> HAHAHAHA
[15:49] <nixternal> i just spit a lil coffee damnit
[15:49] <brousch> hopefully you are clothed now
[15:49] <nixternal> i mass emailed the people at my mom's company she retired from last year. they paid up big time, and i had a few rich friends pitch in, though most of my rich friends donated $5, and my broke friends did $25-$100
[15:50] <jjesse> jrwren, i think its just a registry entry/chagne to make it non-metro
[15:51] <brousch> nixternal: i think the donation would depend partly on whther diabetes affects you or your loved ones
[15:51] <snap-l> nixternal: When is it?
[15:55] <nixternal> damn brousch that was fast
[15:55] <nixternal> snap-l: 25 days from today
[15:55] <nixternal> i started my donation plea a little late this year
[15:55] <brousch> if i don't do it now i will forget
[15:55] <nixternal> yeah, i am the last one to donate, make sure i hit my goal
[15:56] <snap-l> nixternal: I've added it to my GTD lists. I'll get something in next paycheck.
[15:56] <nixternal> last year, wow, i set my goal at $150. i emailed my mom and in 5 minutes I raised my goal to $500. then i emailed one friend, and she emailed her friends & family, and I was up to $1,000
[15:57] <nixternal> snap-l: thanks duders
[15:57] <nixternal> haha, on my Fundraising Honor Roll, it is just "Ben Rousch" all by himself scrolling over & over :D
[16:00] <brousch> i feel lonely
[16:01] <brousch> now i wish i'd added a "personal message"
[16:02] <nixternal> I don't know if the personal message scrolls too. I can't remember. No it doesn't, because I received some nasty messages from Chicago GLUG members last year & it didn't show up
[16:05] <jrwren> jjesse: SHUSH! :)
[16:06] <jrwren> can you assure me that noen of the money will go to type2 diabetes?
[16:08] <snap-l> jrwren: As much as we can assure you that none of your tax dollars will fund stupid shitt
[16:08] <snap-l> ie: none
[16:08] <jrwren> yeah.
[16:08] <snap-l> jrwren: But, a rising tide lifts all boats
[16:08] <jrwren> ever since that pink ribbon cancer bitch ruined charitable organizations, I don't give to anyone.
[16:09] <snap-l> If they cure type 2, maybe they can cure the other forms
[16:09] <snap-l> I don't pretend to know how charities deal with my money
[16:09] <jrwren> type 2 is curable, its just that no one wants to actually do what it takes to live their life that way.
[16:09] <snap-l> I just get pissed off when they spend it all to make more money
[16:09] <snap-l> United Way
[16:10] <jrwren> "oh you mean i have to change my lifestyle? well fuck that" <-- I do not like this
[16:59] <AaronThul> How should someone put a complex data structure into RabbitMQ?  Say I have text stings, internets and multiple images?
[16:59] <rick_h_> you don't want to put that into rabbit if you can help it
[16:59] <rick_h_> the best way to run rabbit is as a pure in memory, leave disk out of things
[16:59] <rick_h_> that means your data going into the queue has to fit into memory
[16:59] <rick_h_> and if the queue backs up...
[17:00] <rick_h_> so you want to store things you need into something like a database, and only put the record ids/etc you want into the rabbit queue itself
[17:01] <AaronThul> hmm I wanted to put everything my worker needs to do its work in the Q
[17:01] <rick_h_> you can, but it's generally not the best idea
[17:01] <AaronThul> I don't like the idea of giving workers access to the DBs and all the NFS shares
[17:01] <rick_h_> think of disaster recovery, resource usages, etc
[17:01] <AaronThul> also WAN over NFS has not worked for us in the past
[17:01] <rick_h_> hmmm, well then can you expose it via a simple service?
[17:02] <rick_h_> gotcha
[17:02] <rick_h_> well, depending on the sizes of the images/etc this can get messy
[17:03] <rick_h_> but basically normally your library helps you get data into rabbit, yuou'd have to basically hex encode the images as strings and decode them on the outside
[17:03] <AaronThul> hmm, that seems yucky
[17:03] <rick_h_> yea, well you're doing yucky things :P
[17:03] <AaronThul> that would be the technical term, yucky :-)
[17:11] <brousch> hah, awesome, apparently i've helped 2 people already http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2012/05/09/ubuntu-12-04-splash-screen-lockup-with-livecd/
[17:11] <rick_h_> woot
[17:16] <brousch> though i didn't expect it on an ibook G4 circa 2006? the machine i had it on was circa 2009
[17:16] <brousch> no, ibooks ended in 2005
[17:17] <brousch> so weird that the same chipset is in both
[17:25] <jrwren> anyone other than me sick of reading about ubuntu ackomplishments?
[17:25] <jrwren> I might actually unsubscribe from jono's blog
[17:26]  * rick_h_ whistles
[17:26] <rick_h_> the issue is that it's on his blog, planet ubuntu, and voices of canonical
[17:26] <rick_h_> I feel like its
[17:26] <rick_h_> it's a TPS report in triplicate
[17:27] <jrwren> i only read his blog.
[17:27] <jrwren> if there is one next time, it get the unsub :)
[18:09] <nixternal> what, you don't want to hear about getting a pat on the back for filing a bug report?
[18:10] <snap-l> I killed Kobo on my Android for it's annoying recommendations
[18:10] <snap-l> and getting a badge for starting a book is stupid
[18:10] <snap-l> (and yes, I think Ubuntu Accomplishments is misguided)
[18:10] <snap-l> and I still have planet Ubuntu on pause
[18:12] <nixternal> i feel that if people start contributing to ubuntu in order to get a trophy, they aren't doing it for the right reason
[18:12] <nixternal> i know it will happen, it always happens. when karma was introduced on LP, the same thing happened
[18:12] <nixternal> people started spamming bug reports just to raise their karma
[18:13] <nixternal> or someone who has never compiled the kernel themselves, would respond with some nonsense on a kernel bug
[18:13] <Milyardo> It comes down to the flawed expectation that you can summerize merit with a few statistics
[18:13] <nixternal> yup
[18:14] <nixternal> though, like other projects, i don't see this one lasting
[18:16] <snap-l> nixternal: That's it's only saving grace.
[18:17] <nixternal> something community related, that I feel is a bit more important, some sort of merger between the forums & askubuntu. get rid of the support forums and have it link to askubuntu instead
[18:17] <nixternal> help.ubuntu.com, askubuntu, ubuntuforums, local documentation. so much fragmentation & rewriting going on
[18:17] <snap-l> nixternal: Every time someone mentions getting rid of the forums, someone releases the flying forum monkeys and all hell breaks loose.
[18:18] <snap-l> Personally, if the forums disappeared tomorrow, I'd be happy
[18:18] <nixternal> they don't have to get rid of it totally, keep the discussions, but the support is nuts
[18:18] <snap-l> If NNTP replaced every web forum out there, I'd be happy.
[18:18] <nixternal> i haven't logged in to the forums in at least 2 years
[18:18] <snap-l> I asked them to delete my account
[18:18] <nixternal> i really enjoy askubuntu, even if i am not searching for support. i learn new shit damn near every day just scrolling through
[18:18] <snap-l> nixternal: ++
[18:19] <snap-l> What I love are the posts that don't get accepted as the answer, but have even better information
[18:20] <nixternal> has better juju info than juju.ubuntu.com :)
[18:23] <snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/around-the-interwebs/this-is-officially-the-worst-slayer-tattoo-i-have-ever-seen
[18:27] <shakes808> WOW... WOW
[18:28] <shakes808> I can see where that could have been decent ... and that is by not getting it in the first place
[18:30] <krondor> this forums versus other things debate must be universal across geekdom.  i3 mailing list erupts into this 'keep/drop the forums' debate twice a year at least.
[18:32] <brousch> ug, i hate forums
[18:39] <snap-l> They're internet cesspools
[18:40] <snap-l> The interfaces are terrible, every one requires a different account, and whomever decided animated signatures that take up half of a page needs to be dragged through a pile of razorblades by their testicles
[18:41] <brousch> seems a little bit harsh
[18:43] <brousch> snap-l: you should give a pygame talk at pyohio
[18:44] <snap-l> brousch: I'll consider it.
[18:44] <greg-g> and use your IRC language
[18:44] <brousch> make it so
[18:44] <brousch> irc language?
[18:45] <greg-g> his colorful IRC language
[18:45] <snap-l> greg-g: You're just jealous that you don't have a stash of razor blades to make it so
[18:45]  * greg-g shudders and kinda feels sick now
[18:47] <brousch> you feel sick because you do have a stash of razor blades?
[18:48]  * greg-g walks away
[18:54] <brousch> or is it because you know who created the monstrosity and he is a good friend of yours?
[19:03] <krondor> whenever I think of forums this song gets stuck in my head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTLwiccIOxI
[19:04] <jrwren> +1 i'll never understand the popularity of web forums.
[19:06] <brousch> krondor: awesome
[19:16] <greg-g> did someone make the "oh my god why does the phone ROM community use forums for software releases?!?!?!! so #fail" comment yet?
[19:16] <greg-g> if not, consider it made
[19:18] <snap-l> greg-g: I'll never understand the whole "Here's our new (album|rom|book) and then present me with a megaupload or other filesharing site" mentality.
[19:19] <snap-l> seriously, you want me to do to a site that has rai4fuuKeelahj8b as the identifier?
[19:19] <snap-l> Talk about the lady or the tiger.
[19:21] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lady,_or_the_Tiger%3F
[19:26] <krondor> a lot of the phone devs have moved to goo.im for files if they're not on their own infrastructure.  Maybe megaupload takedown forced some of that.
[19:28] <snap-l> krondor: So they transferred the problem to someone else.
[19:29] <krondor> yep, which is a huge step up over the download parker ad fests they used before
[19:33] <greg-g> but still, using a forum topic to release software, with a thousand comments on it, is not helpful
[19:33] <greg-g> software development is a solved problem, all we're doing now is working on efficiency/prettiness. Use what we know, damnit.
[19:33] <brousch> especially when you have to start at the end of page 27 and work backwards to find out the newest tweak and issues
[19:33] <greg-g> s/software development/software development infrastructure/
[19:33] <snap-l> go, the Squeezebox folks do that as well
[19:40] <Milyardo> If you're legitmately doing open source phone development what's wrong with a github account or something similar, like I'd figure rom developers would need revision control and issue tracking right?
[19:42] <jrwren> alright pythonistas, how do you deal with reindenting when you add/remove a block?
[19:42] <jrwren> i just removed a try: and reformating that was a load of b.s.
[19:42] <Milyardo> g=GG
[19:43] <Milyardo> ^ hoppe that mage rick_h_  smile
[19:43] <Milyardo> *made
[19:44] <rick_h_> jrwren: v)<< perhaps?
[19:45] <jrwren> I'll try it.
[19:46] <rick_h_> jrwren: basically just using )} to quickly grab code blocks and << to deindent
[19:46] <jrwren> zomg RICH!!!!
[19:46] <rick_h_> rick
[19:46] <jrwren> rick_h_: ++
[19:48] <snap-l> He was saying that it made him RICH with excitement
[19:48] <snap-l> he would never ever make that mistake. ;)
[19:48] <snap-l> (blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall have to talk out of their asses more than once)
[19:48] <greg-g> lol
[19:49] <shakes808> snap-l: +1 lol
[19:50] <Blazeix> hm, bad sign: this api supports two formats: "JSON" and "REST"
[19:50] <krondor> Milyardo:  yeah, so a lot of phone roms are just minor tweaks on other roms done by one guy or so.. they don't invest in the infrastructure
[19:50] <Blazeix> even better, their endpoint is /service/rest/?method=foo, which will invoke the 'foo' operation.
[19:51] <krondor> when you look at larger roms they're doing things like github, or in the case of CM they run their own git and use gerrit I think
[19:51] <snap-l> Blazeix: I'm sure it supports all of the REST API calls, GET, POST, and OTHER
[19:51] <Blazeix> i think everything is GET, but i'm not sure, since the documentation doesn't specify :(
[19:51] <Blazeix> lol http verbs whats that
[19:54] <snap-l> Blazeix: maybe it can return XML too
[19:55] <snap-l> like the POS REST API at $lastjob
[20:00] <Blazeix> oh, it does return xml, don't worry
[20:01] <Blazeix> though i'm fine with that. it isn't ideal, but it also isn't blatantly wrong.
[20:01] <Blazeix> just means i need to use the xml parsing lib rather than the json parsing lib
[20:06] <_stink_> Blazeix: hah, our web team's "REST" api has a ?method=foo just like that.  i have chosen not to discuss this with them.
[20:06] <rick_h_> Blazeix: hah, so xmlrpc via query params ?
[20:06] <rick_h_> _stink_: ugh, I am all for peace in the REST world, wasted too many hours debating
[20:06] <rick_h_> but that is one thing that is most definitely not REST
[20:07] <_stink_> no kidding
[20:07] <Blazeix> yeah, i guess i'm lucky to have an API, but i'll still bitch in IRC about it :)
[20:07] <_stink_> then they wrote a php class as a client to call their own api.  so they don't even see the URIs.
[20:08] <rick_h_> hah
[21:00] <shakes808> see you soon, have a good one
[21:42] <jrwren> hahahaha https://ciaranm.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/this-week-in-python-stupidity-os-stat-os-utime-and-sub-second-timestamps/
[21:57] <jrwren> ok, python is starting to piss me off.
[21:57] <jrwren> open('dne') raises IOError
[21:57] <jrwren> os.stat('dne') raises OSError
[21:57] <jrwren> I thought python was supposed to be consistent?
[22:01] <rick_h_> well, you'll find that one thing in py3.3 (I think it is) is 'fixing the exception levels'
[22:01] <rick_h_> jrwren: ^^
[22:01] <rick_h_> jrwren: and they are doing different things
[22:02] <rick_h_> open is an IO op, stat not so much :P
[22:04] <rick_h_> jrwren: http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.3.html#pep-3151-reworking-the-os-and-io-exception-hierarchy
[22:29] <shakes808> g'day
[22:49] <shakes808> test
[22:50] <shakes808> Was trying my rooted phone's tether. Didn't work :(
[22:54] <greg-g> so, on my non rooted LG Optimus V, all I did was install this crappy "10+ utilities for UR FONE!" app (it moves apps to the SD card that allow it, kills processes, etc)
[22:55] <greg-g> on the "save battery" tab, it has "turn on/off tethering" and when I tap it, it lets me turn on tethering through the standard Android setting for it, even though my stock rom won't let me get there from the normal settings menu
[22:55] <greg-g> nice little work around
[22:57] <shakes808> fun
[22:57] <shakes808> :D