| pleia2 | bramwelt: sorry for the delay in mirror thing, the Ubuntu Developer Summit was last week so I've been pretty snowed under (and so has everyone I've tried to talk to :)), we do appreciate the offer and I hope to have a response soon | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| knome | hey pleia2 - the new plugin is in at xubuntu.org, so people on -team can now edit all not-yet-published posts and pages as well as upload images | 00:03 |
| pleia2 | sweet | 00:04 |
| knome | got to sleep | 00:05 |
| knome | catch you later | 00:05 |
| bramwelt | pleia2: No worries, we just want to help you guys out! I appreciate you getting back to me, and I completely understand being overloaded. Thanks for the help! :) | 00:31 |
| laite | ochosi: \o/ | 07:23 |
| ochosi | laite: welcome! :) | 07:23 |
| baizon | =) | 07:23 |
| Unit193 | Heyho. | 07:23 |
| laite | thanks | 07:23 |
| baizon | o/ | 07:23 |
| ochosi | laite: we're currently putting together our roadmap for xubuntu 12.10 | 07:24 |
| laite | ok | 07:24 |
| ochosi | this is kinda instructive: http://xubuntu.org/news/brainstorming-the-12-10-release/ | 07:24 |
| ochosi | you can easily see in the graph how our release process works | 07:24 |
| ochosi | currently we're in the "roadmap brainstorming > finding assignee" part | 07:25 |
| ochosi | you can also check the link to the actual roadmap to see what has been added there so far | 07:25 |
| ochosi | we're a pretty small team, so there aren't too many items | 07:26 |
| laite | I've actually begin to think about getting more involved with distro developing, as it's nice to give something back :) | 07:28 |
| ochosi | cool | 07:28 |
| ochosi | what kind of contributions would you be interested in? | 07:28 |
| laite | Well, I'm not much of an artis but I could help with theming if needed | 07:30 |
| ochosi | oh yes :) | 07:31 |
| laite | I really don't know what kind of tasks are involved in xubuntu | 07:31 |
| ochosi | that would in fact be swell | 07:31 |
| laite | I mean, how much come straight from ubuntu | 07:31 |
| ochosi | most of it | 07:31 |
| ochosi | the xfce part mostly comes straight from debian | 07:31 |
| ochosi | then there is a small group of packages that we touch a lot ourselves | 07:32 |
| ochosi | much of that is artwork | 07:32 |
| ochosi | and settings | 07:32 |
| ochosi | (and a few distro-specific patches) | 07:32 |
| ochosi | but generally we try to keep the delta with debian/upstream at a minimum | 07:32 |
| laite | Right | 07:32 |
| laite | I guess xfce 4.10 is coming to 12.10? | 07:32 |
| ochosi | yeah, there is a ppa for 12.04 though | 07:33 |
| ochosi | and it works really well, for as much as i've tested/used it so far | 07:33 |
| laite | nice | 07:33 |
| ochosi | yup, thank mr_pouit ;) | 07:33 |
| ochosi | he and micahg are doing the packaging for xubuntu | 07:34 |
| laite | I gotta take a better look at roadmap a bit later, but I'll start idling here in the meanwhile =) | 07:34 |
| ochosi | ok cool | 07:34 |
| ochosi | if you need any pointers always feel free to ping me | 07:34 |
| ochosi | i'm (remotely) always here, if i'm away i'll read the backlog and reply when you're back | 07:35 |
| baizon | ochosi: the window border is broken | 07:59 |
| baizon | http://i.imgur.com/keVKC.png | 08:02 |
| ochosi | baizon: you have to switch the window-manager theme to blackbird as well | 08:04 |
| ochosi | you're obviously still using greybird there... | 08:04 |
| baizon | a ok | 08:05 |
| ochosi | actually the same is true for notifications, but i haven't changed them yet | 08:05 |
| ochosi | so they're the same in blackbird and greybird | 08:05 |
| ochosi | (considering to make them bright in blackbird though) | 08:06 |
| baizon | ok there is one thing i dont liek | 08:06 |
| baizon | like | 08:06 |
| ochosi | yup? | 08:07 |
| baizon | http://imgur.com/GI6N2 | 08:07 |
| baizon | when you select an item it is too dark | 08:07 |
| baizon | imo | 08:07 |
| ochosi | you mean in the new settings-manager? | 08:09 |
| baizon | yes | 08:09 |
| ochosi | yes, i agree, i haven't found time to fix that yet | 08:09 |
| baizon | and update manager is broken | 08:09 |
| baizon | the font color | 08:10 |
| ochosi | update-manager is gtk3 | 08:10 |
| ochosi | i haven't really touched gtk3 yet | 08:10 |
| baizon | ok | 08:10 |
| ochosi | if you have the time/energy, put your current issues on a list somewhere | 08:10 |
| ochosi | maybe a piratepad or something we can follow up on | 08:10 |
| baizon | ok | 08:11 |
| ochosi | bbl | 08:15 |
| laite | one thing I would really like to see in Xubuntu 12.10 is a proper dual monitor-setup GUI - that caused me some problems before I learned how to set it up | 08:19 |
| laite | does xfce 4.10 have anything better that 4.8? | 08:19 |
| baizon | laite, arandr | 08:20 |
| laite | baizon: yep, but imho it should be installed by default | 08:21 |
| baizon | laite: it will be | 08:22 |
| laite | great :) | 08:22 |
| baizon | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Goals/Quantal | 08:22 |
| ochosi | i'm working on a better display-dialog with mr_pouit | 08:49 |
| ochosi | see here: https://wiki.xfce.org/design/xfce4-settings/display | 08:49 |
| ochosi | laite, baizon ^ | 08:50 |
| ochosi | input is appreciated | 08:50 |
| baizon | omg | 08:50 |
| baizon | very nice | 08:50 |
| baizon | planned for 4.12? | 08:51 |
| baizon | the 1. mockup looks better imo | 08:52 |
| ochosi | i guess | 08:53 |
| ochosi | well yes, but it's also far more complex to implement | 08:53 |
| baizon | yes, because of the preview | 08:53 |
| ochosi | hopefully much of that can be taken from ristretto's wallpaper-dialog | 08:54 |
| laite | ochosi: looks really nice | 09:06 |
| knome | baizon, again, please note that things on the roadmap doesn't mean they will be included. | 09:07 |
| baizon | knome: i know :( | 09:07 |
| baizon | im sorry | 09:07 |
| knome | baizon, i told you this once, please try to remember | 09:07 |
| baizon | will do :) | 09:07 |
| knome | thanks | 09:07 |
| baizon | i promise | 09:07 |
| knome | it just confuses people.. | 09:07 |
| baizon | yes, your right | 09:11 |
| baizon | hmm, ochosi blackbird is problematic with libreoffice, its hard to recognize the top icons | 09:13 |
| ochosi | baizon: i know, it's also problematic with some qt apps | 09:13 |
| ochosi | not sure whether that's fixable | 09:13 |
| baizon | ok | 09:13 |
| baizon | but the window border are awesome | 09:13 |
| ochosi | thanks :) | 09:13 |
| baizon | will use them as default from now on | 09:13 |
| laite | about the terminal theme: I find it a bit odd to have gray background, black is so much more 'traditional' | 09:14 |
| ochosi | laite: it's supposed to create a flat terminal in combination with greybird | 09:14 |
| mr_pouit | ochosi: yeah, 1 is better, but I don't know gtk/cairo enough to do it (volunteers welcome :P) | 09:21 |
| ochosi | mr_pouit: check ristretto | 09:21 |
| ochosi | mr_pouit: i mean specifically the wallpaper-dialog, pretty much all you need is there i think | 09:22 |
| ochosi | it even adjusts the ratio of the rectangles to the screen resolutions | 09:22 |
| ochosi | baizon: mind to post a screenshot of your libreoffice problems? | 09:23 |
| baizon | ochosi: yep | 09:24 |
| baizon | ochosi: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cwT-kuOe3Lxxam0peOMi2enZdgKYZqlWV_pIsKkiFS4/edit | 09:24 |
| ochosi | baizon: which ones are hard to see? the greyed-out ones? | 09:25 |
| baizon | yes | 09:25 |
| baizon | at the bottom | 09:25 |
| ochosi | ah, in that case you should specify that you mean the statusbar | 09:26 |
| ochosi | and it's in fact the text that isn't readable | 09:26 |
| ochosi | not the icons | 09:26 |
| baizon | done | 09:27 |
| ochosi | mind to make that doc open so i can edit as well? | 09:28 |
| baizon | ochosi: yep will do, sec | 09:28 |
| baizon | done | 09:28 |
| baizon | ok, alacarte isnt working with xfce 4.10 :( | 09:30 |
| mr_pouit | what's the issue? | 09:31 |
| mr_pouit | (also check that you have the latest xfce4-session from the ppa~) | 09:31 |
| baizon | when i try to add an item it crashes | 09:31 |
| baizon | mr_pouit: yes i have | 09:32 |
| baizon | but i'll check right away | 09:32 |
| baizon | hmm your right | 09:34 |
| baizon | got the old one | 09:34 |
| mr_pouit | I updated it this morning, so that's not surprising ;-) | 09:35 |
| baizon | ok | 09:36 |
| baizon | ochosi: added an example | 09:40 |
| baizon | btw. the font is broken within USC | 09:41 |
| ochosi | USC is also gtk3 | 09:42 |
| ochosi | you have to check the gtk-version for the apps, otherwise adding bugs doesn't make sense | 09:43 |
| baizon | ochosi: yes yes i know, thats why i just added "an example", not a new bug | 09:43 |
| ochosi | oh, ok | 09:43 |
| baizon | brb restart | 09:45 |
| baizon | yep working again | 09:50 |
| baizon | thanks mr_pouit | 09:50 |
| baizon | not perfect, but working | 09:51 |
| baizon | hmm | 10:06 |
| baizon | mtpaint isnt bad | 10:07 |
| baizon | but no 3.40 version | 10:14 |
| laite | ochosi: I've been reading all things concerning xubuntu-developing, roadmap etc. but I'm not really sure what I could do to help ...I mean, it is already an excellent distro :) | 12:44 |
| ochosi | laite: ooh, there are _so_ many projects in my head | 12:45 |
| laite | =) | 12:45 |
| ochosi | also, if you want to help with artwork, you're always more than welcome | 12:45 |
| ochosi | and bugfixing/testing or writing docs is also an endless task | 12:46 |
| laite | I guess from earlier in channel you're building new, dark theme for xubuntu | 12:46 |
| ochosi | yup | 12:46 |
| ochosi | won't be default, but yeah, i'm workin on it | 12:46 |
| laite | Btw, I gotta say that xubuntu is one of the most beautiful distros I've tried | 12:46 |
| ochosi | thanks :) | 12:47 |
| laite | good work | 12:47 |
| ochosi | if you wanna take a look at the dark theme (it's WIP), you can find it here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Blackbird | 12:47 |
| laite | I installed xfce 4.10 and it's really nice | 12:48 |
| laite | gotta love that new application launcher | 12:48 |
| ochosi | yup, it's great | 12:49 |
| ochosi | also the new settings-manager | 12:49 |
| ochosi | it's so easy now to plug in external dialogs/launchers | 12:49 |
| laite | is 'selected item' going to be that light blue in final blackbird | 12:50 |
| laite | it's a bit light for my taste | 12:50 |
| ochosi | well that's the current plan | 12:51 |
| laite | other than that, looks really good | 12:51 |
| laite | k | 12:51 |
| ochosi | ah, colors aren't finalized, if you mean that | 12:51 |
| laite | yes | 12:51 |
| ochosi | atm these are "general directions" | 12:51 |
| ochosi | a starting point | 12:51 |
| laite | It's a bit inconvinient that one has to change appearance and window title from different places, but I can see why they are grouped like that in xfce | 12:52 |
| laite | I've been using bluebird since installing xubuntu, it's somehow refreshing theme =) | 12:53 |
| ochosi | actually there is already a branch in xfce-git with these dialogs merged | 12:54 |
| === baizon_ is now known as baizon | ||
| ochosi | i mean a real "appearance" dialog that has gtk-theme, icons and wm-theme | 12:54 |
| ochosi | it wasn't finished in time for 4.10 | 12:54 |
| laite | oh, that would be welcome | 12:55 |
| ochosi | laite: if you wanna work on bluebird btw, that'd be great | 12:55 |
| ochosi | i haven't had enough time to take good enough care of it | 12:55 |
| ochosi | (the gtk3 port is somewhat sloppy) | 12:55 |
| laite | sure, I could do that | 12:55 |
| ochosi | cool | 12:56 |
| laite | Is the purpose of gtk3 to mimic gtk2 as well as possible? | 12:56 |
| ochosi | yes, i'd say so | 12:56 |
| ochosi | but you can also fiddle with the gtk2 if you want | 12:56 |
| ochosi | i don't see myself having enough time to work on bluebird for real in the future | 12:56 |
| laite | do you have recommendations with testing/modifying themes, applications-wise etc. | 12:58 |
| ochosi | laite: hmm, what do you mean exactly? | 13:03 |
| laite | for example something that'll show all gtk-elements for selected theme etc., preferably for both gtk2/3 | 13:04 |
| ochosi | oh right | 13:04 |
| ochosi | well there is "the-widget-factory" | 13:04 |
| ochosi | you can find a gtk3 version on launchpad or elsewhere | 13:04 |
| ochosi | and you can install the gtk2 version from the repos | 13:04 |
| ochosi | be aware though that the gtk3 version doesn't show all widgets | 13:04 |
| ochosi | (at least most likely) | 13:04 |
| ochosi | the gtk-switch usually isn't there | 13:04 |
| laite | Cool, thanks | 13:04 |
| ochosi | and: there are lots of special cases that you can't see with twf | 13:05 |
| ochosi | you might also wanna take a look at gtkparasite | 13:06 |
| ochosi | there's a gtk2 version and i think the gtk3 version is in progress | 13:06 |
| ochosi | on github | 13:06 |
| ochosi | with gtkparasite you can find out widget-names and hierarchies | 13:06 |
| baizon | canonical should switch to git :) | 13:06 |
| ochosi | especially useful if _one_ app is borked | 13:06 |
| ochosi | or for application specific theming | 13:06 |
| laite | aww, I love gtkparasite already | 13:07 |
| laite | so cute | 13:07 |
| ochosi | hehe | 13:08 |
| ochosi | yeah | 13:08 |
| ochosi | and practical | 13:08 |
| ochosi | very practical | 13:08 |
| ochosi | ok, i gotta go home now, be back in ~2hrs | 13:10 |
| GridCube | knome, ping | 14:38 |
| laite | ochosi: have you tried awf (A Widget factory), it can show both gtk2 and gtk3 in separate windows and select theme from menu: https://github.com/valr/awf | 14:45 |
| ochosi | laite: no, i haven't, sounds promising! | 15:32 |
| ochosi | laite: cool, i just installed the oneiric-package in precise, works great | 15:37 |
| ochosi | i'll copy that package to the shimmer ppa for ease of installation | 15:37 |
| laite | ochosi: I'm thinking of changing Bluebird's close-button to simple cross like in graybird, do you have any objections? | 17:09 |
| laite | instead of 'cross within a filled circle' | 17:09 |
| ochosi | don't think i have objections, no | 17:10 |
| ochosi | bbl | 17:10 |
| bluesabre | knome: I think I saw that Ubuntu Q is going to try to ship python3 only. Are there similar plans for Xubuntu? | 19:07 |
| micahg | no | 19:12 |
| micahg | unless I missed a blueprint :) | 19:12 |
| bluesabre | I didn't think there were, just checking | 19:14 |
| micahg | it'll be enough work to get transitioned to 4.10 and maybe a gtk3 panel | 19:14 |
| bluesabre | Understandably | 19:15 |
| ochosi | laite: i guess you need commit/push rights to bluebird-github | 19:30 |
| ochosi | laite: you're now in the bluebird-group so you can push to that repo. would be nice if you develop in branches, so we can review and then merge the stuff | 19:32 |
| ochosi | bbl | 19:32 |
| laite | ochosi: ok, thanks - just to be sure, I should create a new branch in shimmerproject/Bluebird where I push my modifications? | 19:43 |
| GridCube | knome, ping | 21:01 |
| * scott-work is wondering what work awaits the ubuntu studio team for xfce 4.10 and gtk3 Oo | 21:21 | |
| micahg | scott-work: you'll get most of it for free | 21:25 |
| micahg | scott-work: and if you can point out any duplicated effort you need that shouldn't exist, we can try to consolidate it | 21:26 |
| scott-work | micahg: defintely! (point out duplicate effort and try to consolidate) | 21:26 |
| scott-work | micahg: the email between you and alessio for backporting has been very intriguing, the backport tools have greatly improved | 21:27 |
| scott-work | going home :) | 21:31 |
| ochosi | laite: yup, something like that | 22:30 |
| ochosi | GridCube: i think knome is away till friday or so | 22:35 |
| GridCube | oh | 22:36 |
| GridCube | :( | 22:36 |
| ochosi | at least iirc | 22:36 |
| GridCube | i have a website questioning | 22:36 |
| ochosi | what kind of? | 22:36 |
| GridCube | i have to include images on the tutorial im making and i dont know how to do it properly | 22:37 |
| GridCube | they are A LOT of screenshots | 22:37 |
| ochosi | do you want a gallery with next|previous buttons or just post them in a row? | 22:37 |
| GridCube | i dont know | 22:39 |
| ochosi | but is it for the xubuntu site or somewhere else? | 22:48 |
| ochosi | for the x.org there should be a plugin that does the slideshow (like on the frontpage) | 22:48 |
| ochosi | haven't looked into it though | 22:48 |
| GridCube | ochosi, is for the xubuntu.org | 22:55 |
| ochosi | well anyway, friday is not that late, maybe best to wait for knome :) | 22:55 |
| pleia2 | GridCube: slide show like on the current front page? | 22:56 |
| GridCube | prolly | 22:57 |
| pleia2 | that one is knome's photoslider plugin: https://github.com/knomepasi/WordPress-plugins/tree/master/photoslider | 22:57 |
| GridCube | or maybe i should add an image after each point | 22:57 |
| GridCube | thats what i wanted to ask knome | 22:58 |
| pleia2 | is this for an article, or..? | 22:58 |
| GridCube | an article, the alternate ISO installing guide | 22:58 |
| pleia2 | ah, gotcha | 22:58 |
| pleia2 | is it a lot different from the ubuntu one? | 22:58 |
| GridCube | i don't think so | 22:59 |
| GridCube | no | 22:59 |
| pleia2 | why have our own docs for it? | 22:59 |
| GridCube | http://xubuntu.org/?p=1165&preview=true | 22:59 |
| GridCube | what? | 22:59 |
| pleia2 | I'm wondering why we'd want to write our own alternate install directions if it's similar to the existing ones for Ubuntu (and Debian) | 23:00 |
| GridCube | oh | 23:00 |
| GridCube | i don't know | 23:00 |
| GridCube | i never found one that was good enough | 23:00 |
| pleia2 | seems like the time is better spent contributing to the wider docs | 23:00 |
| GridCube | :P | 23:00 |
| ochosi | well, if GridCube has already done it then i don't see any harm putting this up | 23:01 |
| pleia2 | and they are working next cycle to do away with the alternate installer entirely, bundling an ncurses one into the regular CD | 23:01 |
| GridCube | D: | 23:01 |
| pleia2 | (it's a real pain to spin up and maintain whole separate isos just for a separate ncurses installer) | 23:02 |
| pleia2 | ochosi: yeah, I'm just wondering if it would be better on help.ubuntu.com/community/ | 23:03 |
| ochosi | pleia2: hmm, i agree | 23:03 |
| pleia2 | and maybe add a https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall/Xubuntu too while we're at it (Kubuntu has one!) | 23:04 |
| GridCube | :P yes i understand | 23:04 |
| pleia2 | GridCube: sorry, I don't mean to be discouraging, just want to make sure our docs and help resources don't end up getting all scattered like our dev-wiki-website stuff has | 23:04 |
| GridCube | :) | 23:05 |
| GridCube | ok | 23:05 |
| pleia2 | half on the website, half on the wiki, no one can ever find anything ;) | 23:05 |
| GridCube | im not discouraged | 23:05 |
| GridCube | i do think stuff should be on the help | 23:05 |
| pleia2 | maybe put it on help.ubuntu.com and then do an article on the website advertising that it's now there and updated? | 23:05 |
| pleia2 | I can help write a GraphicalInstall/Xubuntu too so we can announce both! | 23:06 |
| pleia2 | docs improvements are on our roadmap this cycle, we should probably be fleshing out a comprehensive strategy for all this (maybe someone is, I don't really know all that much about how xubuntu docs are managed :)) | 23:09 |
| GridCube | :) | 23:10 |
| ochosi | pleia2: hummyeah, thing is, xfce-docs are now online-only | 23:20 |
| ochosi | so either we pull their wiki into an offline resource or help will only be available for those with internet access | 23:21 |
| ochosi | (not sure about the size of the wiki btw) | 23:21 |
| pleia2 | http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-desktop-xubuntu-12.04 is interesting (adds a bunch of tools to make it a "full-fledged replacement for a Windows desktop") | 23:48 |
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