[00:01] bramwelt: sorry for the delay in mirror thing, the Ubuntu Developer Summit was last week so I've been pretty snowed under (and so has everyone I've tried to talk to :)), we do appreciate the offer and I hope to have a response soon [00:03] hey pleia2 - the new plugin is in at xubuntu.org, so people on -team can now edit all not-yet-published posts and pages as well as upload images [00:04] sweet [00:05] got to sleep [00:05] catch you later [00:31] pleia2: No worries, we just want to help you guys out! I appreciate you getting back to me, and I completely understand being overloaded. Thanks for the help! :) [07:23] ochosi: \o/ [07:23] laite: welcome! :) [07:23] =) [07:23] Heyho. [07:23] thanks [07:23] o/ [07:24] laite: we're currently putting together our roadmap for xubuntu 12.10 [07:24] ok [07:24] this is kinda instructive: http://xubuntu.org/news/brainstorming-the-12-10-release/ [07:24] you can easily see in the graph how our release process works [07:25] currently we're in the "roadmap brainstorming > finding assignee" part [07:25] you can also check the link to the actual roadmap to see what has been added there so far [07:26] we're a pretty small team, so there aren't too many items [07:28] I've actually begin to think about getting more involved with distro developing, as it's nice to give something back :) [07:28] cool [07:28] what kind of contributions would you be interested in? [07:30] Well, I'm not much of an artis but I could help with theming if needed [07:31] oh yes :) [07:31] I really don't know what kind of tasks are involved in xubuntu [07:31] that would in fact be swell [07:31] I mean, how much come straight from ubuntu [07:31] most of it [07:31] the xfce part mostly comes straight from debian [07:32] then there is a small group of packages that we touch a lot ourselves [07:32] much of that is artwork [07:32] and settings [07:32] (and a few distro-specific patches) [07:32] but generally we try to keep the delta with debian/upstream at a minimum [07:32] Right [07:32] I guess xfce 4.10 is coming to 12.10? [07:33] yeah, there is a ppa for 12.04 though [07:33] and it works really well, for as much as i've tested/used it so far [07:33] nice [07:33] yup, thank mr_pouit ;) [07:34] he and micahg are doing the packaging for xubuntu [07:34] I gotta take a better look at roadmap a bit later, but I'll start idling here in the meanwhile =) [07:34] ok cool [07:34] if you need any pointers always feel free to ping me [07:35] i'm (remotely) always here, if i'm away i'll read the backlog and reply when you're back [07:59] ochosi: the window border is broken [08:02] http://i.imgur.com/keVKC.png [08:04] baizon: you have to switch the window-manager theme to blackbird as well [08:04] you're obviously still using greybird there... [08:05] a ok [08:05] actually the same is true for notifications, but i haven't changed them yet [08:05] so they're the same in blackbird and greybird [08:06] (considering to make them bright in blackbird though) [08:06] ok there is one thing i dont liek [08:06] like [08:07] yup? [08:07] http://imgur.com/GI6N2 [08:07] when you select an item it is too dark [08:07] imo [08:09] you mean in the new settings-manager? [08:09] yes [08:09] yes, i agree, i haven't found time to fix that yet [08:09] and update manager is broken [08:10] the font color [08:10] update-manager is gtk3 [08:10] i haven't really touched gtk3 yet [08:10] ok [08:10] if you have the time/energy, put your current issues on a list somewhere [08:10] maybe a piratepad or something we can follow up on [08:11] ok [08:15] bbl [08:19] one thing I would really like to see in Xubuntu 12.10 is a proper dual monitor-setup GUI - that caused me some problems before I learned how to set it up [08:19] does xfce 4.10 have anything better that 4.8? [08:20] laite, arandr [08:21] baizon: yep, but imho it should be installed by default [08:22] laite: it will be [08:22] great :) [08:22] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Goals/Quantal [08:49] i'm working on a better display-dialog with mr_pouit [08:49] see here: https://wiki.xfce.org/design/xfce4-settings/display [08:50] laite, baizon ^ [08:50] input is appreciated [08:50] omg [08:50] very nice [08:51] planned for 4.12? [08:52] the 1. mockup looks better imo [08:53] i guess [08:53] well yes, but it's also far more complex to implement [08:53] yes, because of the preview [08:54] hopefully much of that can be taken from ristretto's wallpaper-dialog [09:06] ochosi: looks really nice [09:07] baizon, again, please note that things on the roadmap doesn't mean they will be included. [09:07] knome: i know :( [09:07] im sorry [09:07] baizon, i told you this once, please try to remember [09:07] will do :) [09:07] thanks [09:07] i promise [09:07] it just confuses people.. [09:11] yes, your right [09:13] hmm, ochosi blackbird is problematic with libreoffice, its hard to recognize the top icons [09:13] baizon: i know, it's also problematic with some qt apps [09:13] not sure whether that's fixable [09:13] ok [09:13] but the window border are awesome [09:13] thanks :) [09:13] will use them as default from now on [09:14] about the terminal theme: I find it a bit odd to have gray background, black is so much more 'traditional' [09:14] laite: it's supposed to create a flat terminal in combination with greybird [09:21] ochosi: yeah, 1 is better, but I don't know gtk/cairo enough to do it (volunteers welcome :P) [09:21] mr_pouit: check ristretto [09:22] mr_pouit: i mean specifically the wallpaper-dialog, pretty much all you need is there i think [09:22] it even adjusts the ratio of the rectangles to the screen resolutions [09:23] baizon: mind to post a screenshot of your libreoffice problems? [09:24] ochosi: yep [09:24] ochosi: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cwT-kuOe3Lxxam0peOMi2enZdgKYZqlWV_pIsKkiFS4/edit [09:25] baizon: which ones are hard to see? the greyed-out ones? [09:25] yes [09:25] at the bottom [09:26] ah, in that case you should specify that you mean the statusbar [09:26] and it's in fact the text that isn't readable [09:26] not the icons [09:27] done [09:28] mind to make that doc open so i can edit as well? [09:28] ochosi: yep will do, sec [09:28] done [09:30] ok, alacarte isnt working with xfce 4.10 :( [09:31] what's the issue? [09:31] (also check that you have the latest xfce4-session from the ppa~) [09:31] when i try to add an item it crashes [09:32] mr_pouit: yes i have [09:32] but i'll check right away [09:34] hmm your right [09:34] got the old one [09:35] I updated it this morning, so that's not surprising ;-) [09:36] ok [09:40] ochosi: added an example [09:41] btw. the font is broken within USC [09:42] USC is also gtk3 [09:43] you have to check the gtk-version for the apps, otherwise adding bugs doesn't make sense [09:43] ochosi: yes yes i know, thats why i just added "an example", not a new bug [09:43] oh, ok [09:45] brb restart [09:50] yep working again [09:50] thanks mr_pouit [09:51] not perfect, but working [10:06] hmm [10:07] mtpaint isnt bad [10:14] but no 3.40 version [12:44] ochosi: I've been reading all things concerning xubuntu-developing, roadmap etc. but I'm not really sure what I could do to help ...I mean, it is already an excellent distro :) [12:45] laite: ooh, there are _so_ many projects in my head [12:45] =) [12:45] also, if you want to help with artwork, you're always more than welcome [12:46] and bugfixing/testing or writing docs is also an endless task [12:46] I guess from earlier in channel you're building new, dark theme for xubuntu [12:46] yup [12:46] won't be default, but yeah, i'm workin on it [12:46] Btw, I gotta say that xubuntu is one of the most beautiful distros I've tried [12:47] thanks :) [12:47] good work [12:47] if you wanna take a look at the dark theme (it's WIP), you can find it here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/Blackbird [12:48] I installed xfce 4.10 and it's really nice [12:48] gotta love that new application launcher [12:49] yup, it's great [12:49] also the new settings-manager [12:49] it's so easy now to plug in external dialogs/launchers [12:50] is 'selected item' going to be that light blue in final blackbird [12:50] it's a bit light for my taste [12:51] well that's the current plan [12:51] other than that, looks really good [12:51] k [12:51] ah, colors aren't finalized, if you mean that [12:51] yes [12:51] atm these are "general directions" [12:51] a starting point [12:52] It's a bit inconvinient that one has to change appearance and window title from different places, but I can see why they are grouped like that in xfce [12:53] I've been using bluebird since installing xubuntu, it's somehow refreshing theme =) [12:54] actually there is already a branch in xfce-git with these dialogs merged === baizon_ is now known as baizon [12:54] i mean a real "appearance" dialog that has gtk-theme, icons and wm-theme [12:54] it wasn't finished in time for 4.10 [12:55] oh, that would be welcome [12:55] laite: if you wanna work on bluebird btw, that'd be great [12:55] i haven't had enough time to take good enough care of it [12:55] (the gtk3 port is somewhat sloppy) [12:55] sure, I could do that [12:56] cool [12:56] Is the purpose of gtk3 to mimic gtk2 as well as possible? [12:56] yes, i'd say so [12:56] but you can also fiddle with the gtk2 if you want [12:56] i don't see myself having enough time to work on bluebird for real in the future [12:58] do you have recommendations with testing/modifying themes, applications-wise etc. [13:03] laite: hmm, what do you mean exactly? [13:04] for example something that'll show all gtk-elements for selected theme etc., preferably for both gtk2/3 [13:04] oh right [13:04] well there is "the-widget-factory" [13:04] you can find a gtk3 version on launchpad or elsewhere [13:04] and you can install the gtk2 version from the repos [13:04] be aware though that the gtk3 version doesn't show all widgets [13:04] (at least most likely) [13:04] the gtk-switch usually isn't there [13:04] Cool, thanks [13:05] and: there are lots of special cases that you can't see with twf [13:06] you might also wanna take a look at gtkparasite [13:06] there's a gtk2 version and i think the gtk3 version is in progress [13:06] on github [13:06] with gtkparasite you can find out widget-names and hierarchies [13:06] canonical should switch to git :) [13:06] especially useful if _one_ app is borked [13:06] or for application specific theming [13:07] aww, I love gtkparasite already [13:07] so cute [13:08] hehe [13:08] yeah [13:08] and practical [13:08] very practical [13:10] ok, i gotta go home now, be back in ~2hrs [14:38] knome, ping [14:45] ochosi: have you tried awf (A Widget factory), it can show both gtk2 and gtk3 in separate windows and select theme from menu: https://github.com/valr/awf [15:32] laite: no, i haven't, sounds promising! [15:37] laite: cool, i just installed the oneiric-package in precise, works great [15:37] i'll copy that package to the shimmer ppa for ease of installation [17:09] ochosi: I'm thinking of changing Bluebird's close-button to simple cross like in graybird, do you have any objections? [17:09] instead of 'cross within a filled circle' [17:10] don't think i have objections, no [17:10] bbl [19:07] knome: I think I saw that Ubuntu Q is going to try to ship python3 only. Are there similar plans for Xubuntu? [19:12] no [19:12] unless I missed a blueprint :) [19:14] I didn't think there were, just checking [19:14] it'll be enough work to get transitioned to 4.10 and maybe a gtk3 panel [19:15] Understandably [19:30] laite: i guess you need commit/push rights to bluebird-github [19:32] laite: you're now in the bluebird-group so you can push to that repo. would be nice if you develop in branches, so we can review and then merge the stuff [19:32] bbl [19:43] ochosi: ok, thanks - just to be sure, I should create a new branch in shimmerproject/Bluebird where I push my modifications? [21:01] knome, ping [21:21] * scott-work is wondering what work awaits the ubuntu studio team for xfce 4.10 and gtk3 Oo [21:25] scott-work: you'll get most of it for free [21:26] scott-work: and if you can point out any duplicated effort you need that shouldn't exist, we can try to consolidate it [21:26] micahg: defintely! (point out duplicate effort and try to consolidate) [21:27] micahg: the email between you and alessio for backporting has been very intriguing, the backport tools have greatly improved [21:31] going home :) [22:30] laite: yup, something like that [22:35] GridCube: i think knome is away till friday or so [22:36] oh [22:36] :( [22:36] at least iirc [22:36] i have a website questioning [22:36] what kind of? [22:37] i have to include images on the tutorial im making and i dont know how to do it properly [22:37] they are A LOT of screenshots [22:37] do you want a gallery with next|previous buttons or just post them in a row? [22:39] i dont know [22:48] but is it for the xubuntu site or somewhere else? [22:48] for the x.org there should be a plugin that does the slideshow (like on the frontpage) [22:48] haven't looked into it though [22:55] ochosi, is for the xubuntu.org [22:55] well anyway, friday is not that late, maybe best to wait for knome :) [22:56] GridCube: slide show like on the current front page? [22:57] prolly [22:57] that one is knome's photoslider plugin: https://github.com/knomepasi/WordPress-plugins/tree/master/photoslider [22:57] or maybe i should add an image after each point [22:58] thats what i wanted to ask knome [22:58] is this for an article, or..? [22:58] an article, the alternate ISO installing guide [22:58] ah, gotcha [22:58] is it a lot different from the ubuntu one? [22:59] i don't think so [22:59] no [22:59] why have our own docs for it? [22:59] http://xubuntu.org/?p=1165&preview=true [22:59] what? [23:00] I'm wondering why we'd want to write our own alternate install directions if it's similar to the existing ones for Ubuntu (and Debian) [23:00] oh [23:00] i don't know [23:00] i never found one that was good enough [23:00] seems like the time is better spent contributing to the wider docs [23:00] :P [23:01] well, if GridCube has already done it then i don't see any harm putting this up [23:01] and they are working next cycle to do away with the alternate installer entirely, bundling an ncurses one into the regular CD [23:01] D: [23:02] (it's a real pain to spin up and maintain whole separate isos just for a separate ncurses installer) [23:03] ochosi: yeah, I'm just wondering if it would be better on help.ubuntu.com/community/ [23:03] pleia2: hmm, i agree [23:04] and maybe add a https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall/Xubuntu too while we're at it (Kubuntu has one!) [23:04] :P yes i understand [23:04] GridCube: sorry, I don't mean to be discouraging, just want to make sure our docs and help resources don't end up getting all scattered like our dev-wiki-website stuff has [23:05] :) [23:05] ok [23:05] half on the website, half on the wiki, no one can ever find anything ;) [23:05] im not discouraged [23:05] i do think stuff should be on the help [23:05] maybe put it on help.ubuntu.com and then do an article on the website advertising that it's now there and updated? [23:06] I can help write a GraphicalInstall/Xubuntu too so we can announce both! [23:09] docs improvements are on our roadmap this cycle, we should probably be fleshing out a comprehensive strategy for all this (maybe someone is, I don't really know all that much about how xubuntu docs are managed :)) [23:10] :) [23:20] pleia2: hummyeah, thing is, xfce-docs are now online-only [23:21] so either we pull their wiki into an offline resource or help will only be available for those with internet access [23:21] (not sure about the size of the wiki btw) [23:48] http://www.howtoforge.com/the-perfect-desktop-xubuntu-12.04 is interesting (adds a bunch of tools to make it a "full-fledged replacement for a Windows desktop")