[02:45] <Czar> hi
[03:20] <Azelphur> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404520,00.asp lmfao at this
[03:31] <hbt272> hi
[06:09] <kaushal> Hi
[06:11] <kaushal> I have this pastebin http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/991883/
[06:11] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: yes, let people pay MORE to remove crapware
[06:12] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: indeed :P
[06:12] <kaushal> is there a way i prepend absolute path to all the filename using gedit or notepad ++ or geany ?
[06:12] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: not easily
[06:12] <kaushal> For example /home/testuser/ffdaa/contact_us.tpl
[06:13] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: there's "chroot", but that only works as root, and you'll need to install all binaries inside the chroot :|
[06:13] <kaushal> so finally it would look like cp /home/testuser/ffdaa/contact_us.tpl /home/testprod/ffdaa/contact_us.tpl
[06:13] <MartijnVdS> ah
[06:14] <MartijnVdS> you could put it in a variable and use that..
[06:14] <kaushal> using gedit or notepad ++ or geany ?
[06:14] <MartijnVdS> TEST_PATH=/home/testuser/ffdaa
[06:14] <MartijnVdS> and use
[06:14] <MartijnVdS> $TEST_PATH/filename
[06:14] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: there are around 50 lines
[06:15] <MartijnVdS> you could 'cd' to it
[06:15] <MartijnVdS> and use ./
[06:15] <MartijnVdS> (or nothing)
[06:15] <kaushal> I think geany or some apps
[06:15] <kaushal> but not sure how to do it
[06:15] <MartijnVdS> I think you're trying to solve the wrong problem
[06:15] <MartijnVdS> !xy
[06:16] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: sure
[06:19] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: any equivalent software of notepad ++ available in Ubuntu ?
[06:21] <MartijnVdS> Lots of text editors are
[06:21] <kaushal> MartijnVdS: any specific one ?
[07:19] <DJones> Morning all
[07:36] <christel> morning lovelies
[07:41] <DJones> morning christel
[07:43] <christel> hellooo :D
[07:44] <DJones> Damm, just tried to change tabs in Chrome using Alt 1, Alt 2 etc thinking I was in irssi
[07:45] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:53] <daubers> Is it me or is OSX Lions recovery stuff really pants?
[07:54] <daubers> Failed to download overnight, now got half way through "downloading additional components" and is failing again
[08:03]  * MartijnVdS gives daubers an Ubuntu CD to recover with
[08:09] <daubers> We started with "about 3 minutes remaining" and are now at "about 9 minutes remaining"
[08:09] <daubers> Too much of this http://xkcd.com/612/
[08:13] <popey> morning all
[08:14] <oimon> mornin
[08:16] <AlanBell> morning
[08:16] <MooDoo> morning popey oimon AlanBell
[08:18] <oimon> sorry for offtopic but do any android users know a quicker way to force close an app? always have to FC facebook and restart, and settings-apps-manage-facebook-FC is rather long winded for a process i have to do most of the time
[08:19] <AlanBell> oimon: I have a program monitor widget that shows running programs and lets me exit them
[08:20] <davmor2> morning all you funky morning types
[08:20] <MooDoo> davmor2: pah! meh!
[08:20] <davmor2> MooDoo: what?
[08:21] <MooDoo> davmor2: tired and forgot my wallet
[08:21] <davmor2> MooDoo: Ouch that's not a good start
[08:22] <MooDoo> davmor2: no seeing as i need to buy something doh!
[08:25] <arsen> wow, ive been inadvertently forced into SLED 11
[08:25] <arsen> and its an awful place to be.
[08:27] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:30] <MooDoo> hello czajkowski
[08:42] <bigcalm_laptop> Good morning peeps :)
[08:43] <dwatkins> hiya bigcalm_laptop
[08:48] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[08:48] <bigcalm_laptop> czajkowski: want me to be a proxy for podding davmor2?
[08:48] <czajkowski> ah yes
[08:48] <MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: i think czajkowski is mean enough to take care of herself :)
[08:49] <bigcalm_laptop> MooDoo: I don't think czajkowski arms are that long
[08:49] <bigcalm_laptop> MooDoo: today I am sitting next to davmor2
[08:49] <MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: ah poor davmor2  ;)
[08:49] <bigcalm_laptop> Like that is it then?
[08:49] <MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: ;)
[08:50] <MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: you going to oggcamp?
[08:50] <davmor2> meh need to restart sudo issue
[08:50] <oimon> AlanBell, thanks, i'll look into that
[08:50] <oimon> a bit like advanced task killer?
[09:11] <bigcalm_laptop> MooDoo: I am indeed
[09:11] <bigcalm_laptop> MooDoo: you?
[09:12] <MooDoo> bigcalm_laptop: i am, guess i better buy you a beer for insulting you earlier :) lol
[09:12] <bigcalm_laptop> \o/
[09:20] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:21] <mattt> brobostigon: WOOTMORNING
[09:21] <brobostigon> morning mattt
[09:22] <bigcalm_laptop> mattt: bit happy for a Thursday?
[09:24] <mattt> haha
[09:24]  * mattt tones it down
[09:24] <MooDoo> mattt: put the pills away
[09:25] <Linuxsapien> what file manager can anyone suggest I could try.. im using gnome comm', but it sometimes doesnt behave.
[09:25] <popey> comm?
[09:26] <Linuxsapien> comm'
[09:27] <popey> i have no idea what "comm'" is
[09:28] <christel> bigcalm_laptop: buy me beer.
[09:28] <bigcalm_laptop> christel: it will be my pleasure :)
[09:30]  * DJones guesses that gnome comm is "Gnome commander"
[09:31] <MartijnVdS> mc, or learn how to use the shell ;)
[09:31] <DJones> Linuxsapien: Assuming it is, I've never needed anything beyond Nautilus as a file manager
[09:31] <MartijnVdS> if you ask me
[09:31] <christel> bigcalm_laptop: excellent! not too long until RAT :D
[09:31] <bigcalm_laptop> Woop woop
[09:32] <bigcalm_laptop> Really looking forward to it
[09:32] <DJones> bigcalm_laptop: Should that not be "Toot, Toot" as its a train
[09:32] <MartijnVdS> beep beep
[09:33] <DJones> Thats a road runner
[09:33] <bigcalm_laptop> Swig, parp
[09:33] <brobostigon> meep meep. is road runner.
[09:33] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_laptop: http://ftw.popey.com/ ?
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm_laptop: (related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PARP_inhibitor)
[09:34] <popey> also, why does Linuxsapien look like he's logged in as 'root'
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> Being logged in as r00t is l33t!
[09:34] <MartijnVdS> also, a very bad idea
[09:34] <popey> oh, okay ☺
[09:34] <DJones> Does the live cd do that? irc as root etc
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> DJones: only if you start the irc client as root
[09:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> hmm - how do I remove a directory from my personal folders in Ubuntu One?
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> Live CD is usually user "ubuntu" I think
[09:35] <Linuxsapien> i know, because it seems to "irritate" people, its not actually real root, but its amazing how annoyed some people get because I am "logged" in as root lol
[09:35] <DJones> MartijnVdS: Ta, couldn't remember if that was the case
[09:37] <MooDoo> christel: have a beer on me too!
[09:37] <christel> woop
[09:38] <popey> Linuxsapien: how is it not real root?
[09:38] <bigcalm_laptop> MooDoo: messy
[09:39] <Linuxsapien> popey try not to think about it too much lol
[09:39] <SuperMatt> is it just a user with the name root?
[09:40] <popey> Linuxsapien: just asking. no need to patronise me
[09:40] <Linuxsapien> obviously, i wouldnt be daft to really be root
[09:40] <Linuxsapien> as I said, it just gets people irritated or amused when they spot it
[09:40] <Linuxsapien> i aint patronising you popey
[09:41] <JamesTait> Morning all!
[09:42] <directhex> popey, it's just the ident sent by the irc client
[09:42] <popey> sure
[09:42] <directhex> which defaults to the local username, but doesn't need to be
[09:42] <iclebyte> is there some global DNS issue going on?
[09:42] <brobostigon> iclebyte: what are you experiencing?
[09:42] <directhex> some channels prevent anyone with an ident of root from speaking. i think #debian does that
[09:42] <popey> now getting pm from linuxsapien telling me to chill out
[09:43] <popey> hey ho
[09:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> how do I remove a directory from "My Personal Folders" in Ubuntu One? The FAQ says set it to stop syncing on the web page which I have done.
[09:43] <SuperMatt> lol
[09:43] <directhex> popey, sounds like hye's very convinced by how smart he is
[09:43] <iclebyte> brobostigon, lots of the issues with customers not sending mail messagelabs initally, now we're getting more DNS related queries, but i'm doing the lookups on the domains from dnsstuff.com and many are failing
[09:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> And 2ndly - why is U1 so slow compared to dropbox?
[09:44] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: blame aquarius
[09:44] <iclebyte> seems to pertain to MX records
[09:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - OK the directory has just disappeared from the U1 app on my desktop. (see I said it was slow).
[09:44] <brobostigon> iclebyte: interesting good question, i havent noticed anything here.
[09:45] <DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Perhaps thats secret, U1 is a virtual cloud storage, but all it does it backs up to dropbox via a U1 cloak :)
[09:45] <popey> s/dropbox/s3/
[09:46] <popey> mind you, so does dropbox iirc
[09:47] <DJones> I don't why, I've hardly ever used U1, possibly because I'd got in the habit of using dropbox on ubuntu & windows, I should really give it a go
[09:47] <directhex> i use u1ms. that's my only u1 usage
[09:47] <directhex> pain in the bum to load up rhythmbox just to buy music though
[09:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've been trying it but it doesn't seem as seemless as dbox and certainly feels much less responsive...
[09:48] <popey> i use u1 instead of dropbox these days
[09:48]  * DJones downloads the windows client
[09:48] <directhex> skydrive!
[09:48] <popey> all my music and photos in it
[09:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> I asked it to add a new directory several minutes ago. It still isn't being listed anywhere.
[09:48] <popey> to the cloud!
[09:49] <directhex> i'd use skydrive for everything if it worked usefully in linux. i've got 25G free on there, which is lots
[09:51] <SuperMatt> I'm waiting on google drive
[09:52] <SuperMatt> cos I have 200gig worth of space with pacasa, and it can be used by drive too
[09:52] <ahayzen> U1 is AWSOME ... see wht i did there ;)
[09:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> I don't find something that takes more than 10 minutes to show me it is even thinking about adding a directory to my U1 should be called that. (and yes I do know why you said AWESOME)
[09:56] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ @ AWS-ome
[09:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK - Am now officially bored of waiting for *anything* to happen.
[09:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Time for a #2 :-D
[09:58] <SuperMatt> LOVELY
[10:00] <AlanBell> there is a lack of a "what are you doing???" area in U1
[10:00] <AlanBell> I want to see it telling me what file it is syncing and how fast it is going etc
[10:00] <AlanBell> or to be able to find that if I want to care about it
[10:03] <AlanBell> in a prettier way than tail -f ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log
[10:04] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: watch -n1 u1sdtool --current-transfers
[10:04] <popey> there's a couple of ways to do that
[10:04] <popey> https://launchpad.net/indicator-ubuntuone
[10:04] <popey> !info magicicada
[10:07] <AlanBell> interesting
[10:08] <AlanBell> I still don't know what it is doing though
[10:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> nothing in my case apparently.
[10:08] <AlanBell> magicicada shows me a big list of stuff in the folder I just added that it is supposed to upload
[10:08] <AlanBell> watch -n1 u1sdtool --current-transfers shows nothing uploading or downloading
[10:08] <AlanBell> tail of the log shows nothing much happening now
[10:08] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: and u1sdtool --waiting ?
[10:09] <popey> what do you think should be happening?
[10:09] <popey> open the u1 client, does it say its doing anything?
[10:09] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: shows 200 lines of stuff waiting
[10:10] <AlanBell> file sync in progress according to the U1 client
[10:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> I (have twice) added a directory to "My Personal Folders" as I want to sync it. But it still doesn't show up anywhere in any U1 information
[10:11] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: how did you do that?
[10:11] <AlanBell> I just added a folder, in order to tell TheOpenSourcerer how wrong he is, and how wonderful U1 is, but it is not nice
[10:11] <AlanBell> I added the Documents folder using the U1 client
[10:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> I clicked the bitton that says "Add a folder from this computer".
[10:11] <AlanBell> thats what I did too
[10:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> twice in the last 1/2 hr or so...
[10:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> nothing. nilch, nadda
[10:12] <AlanBell> mine contains 944M of assorted stuff
[10:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mine has much less than that
[10:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> ~100Mb
[10:12] <popey> what if you stop/start transferrs?
[10:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> tried that
[10:12] <popey> and what does magicicada say?
[10:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> closed the U1 client
[10:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> I haven't installed that. hang on.
[10:13] <popey> closing the client wont stop the connection
[10:13] <popey> there's a button in the top right
[10:13] <popey> "disconnect"
[10:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> yes.
[10:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have tried that too.
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> u1sdtool -d
[10:13] <popey> so hit that, wait a few seconds, hit connect
[10:13] <AlanBell> looking at the web client mine did upload a bunch of stuff 12 minutes ago, but now I am not sure if it is doing one big file, or has given up
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> or -q for quit
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> then restart with u1sdtool -s
[10:14] <popey> why would you assume its given up?
[10:14] <popey> indeed why do you even care? just leave it running and the stuff will upload ☺
[10:14] <directhex> maybe. ish
[10:14] <directhex> (note: often doesn't)
[10:14] <DJones> I've just added a folder using the the windows client and thats syncing away very quickly I can see the files via the web interface with no problem
[10:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> magiciada also doesn't show me the directory I tried to add
[10:15] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: do you see the folder in the web UI?
[10:15] <popey> one.ubuntu.com/files
[10:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> no
[10:15] <AlanBell> well it would be nice if there was a "200 files left to sync, now processing foo.tar.gz" or something in the client
[10:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> I am havign a go with the magiciada thing
[10:16] <popey> AlanBell: why?
[10:16] <AlanBell> rather than the uninformative "file sync in progress"
[10:16] <popey> why do you care?
[10:16] <popey> fact is it's doing stuff, when it's finished, it will be finished ☺
[10:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> if it worked popey I probably wouldn't/
[10:17] <popey> i have yet to hear evidence that it's not working
[10:17] <popey> just lots of woe is me and wailing
[10:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK - I tried to add the dir I wanted to. Now the Folders dialogue box in magiciada is greyed out and not showing me the new dir.
[10:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> I am not seeing any files from my folder being added to U1. Isn't that *not* working popey?
[10:18] <popey> are you seeing them in one.ubuntu.com/files ?
[10:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> for the 2nd time. no
[10:19] <SuperMatt> I must confess that I've had issues with ubuntu one where I've tried to sync too much in one go
[10:20] <popey> maybe have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Bugs#Files_not_syncing
[10:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> alord@lobsang:~/Development/Workspaces$ du -sh talend-5.1/
[10:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> 145M	talend-5.1/
[10:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not very bnig really.
[10:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> *big
[10:22] <popey> just checked my machine at home
[10:22] <AlanBell> mine seems to have stalled when the sync got to a folder with spaces in the folder name
[10:22] <AlanBell> dunno if that is significant
[10:22] <popey> its currently not transferring but has some waiting
[10:23] <popey> so maybe there's a system wide issue?
[10:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> where are the syncdaemon logs?
[10:23] <popey> ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log
[10:24] <AlanBell> ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log
[10:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> ty
[10:24] <daubers> Wonder if I should raise a bug about that. Should really be in /var/log
[10:24] <AlanBell> no, they shouldn't
[10:24] <popey> nope
[10:24] <popey> its user specific
[10:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh: 2012-05-17 11:16:23,515 - ubuntuone.SyncDaemon.VM - WARNING - Duplicated create_udf request for path (ingoring it!): '/home/alord/Development/Workspaces/talend-5.1'
[10:25] <popey> heh
[10:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> so it new I tried to sync it twice.
[10:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> knew
[10:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> last entry:
[10:25] <AlanBell> daubers: you wouldn't want all your filenames in /var/log
[10:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> 2012-05-17 11:23:45,566 - ubuntuone.SyncDaemon.Main - NOTE - ---- MARK (state: <State: 'QUEUE_MANAGER'  (queues WORKING  connection 'With User With Network')>; queue: 201; offloaded: 31002; hash: 0) ----
[10:25] <popey> I would recommend joining #ubuntuone
[10:25] <popey> rye is there and ready to help
[10:27] <s-fox> o/
[10:28] <popey> moo
[10:28] <bigcalm_laptop> davmor2 appears to want to have a staring contest. That or he's lost in my beauty
[10:28]  * davmor2 thumps bigcalm_laptop repeatedly
[10:28] <iclebyte> it was an issue with MessageLabs Amsterdam cluster if anyone else is seeing problems.
[10:32] <davmor2> czajkowski: Prod fix ldtp so it works for me will you please
[10:32] <czajkowski> there is stuff hapenign should be ok in half hr
[10:32] <czajkowski> ish
[10:48] <DJones> I must try & get U1 set up on a server
[10:55] <SuperMatt> DJones: I don't believe that u1 works in command line, so it might not be worth it
[10:58] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/Headless
[10:58] <popey> it does SuperMatt / DJones
[11:00] <DJones> popey: Thanks for the link
[11:00] <SuperMatt> oh, I didn't know that
[11:01] <SuperMatt> not quite so easy though ;)
[11:14] <bigcalm_laptop> Good soup here
[11:14] <DJones> I'll have to have a look at that later, give me an error trying to start it
[11:15] <DJones> http://pastebin.com/rXawzU1a
[11:16] <daubers> popey / AlanBell : Ah, I take your point on log file locations
[11:20] <daubers> Wonder if I can get my house renumbered to ::1
[11:20] <popey> thats an error wanting x
[11:22] <gord> wonder if i can get my house renamed to "'); DROP TABLE SpamTargets;"
[11:22] <DJones> Yes, but its on a server install
[11:22]  * TheOpenSourcerer (after patching his ubuntuone client) recalls popey's comment from earlier...
[11:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: i have yet to hear evidence that it's not working
[11:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: just lots of woe is me and wailing
[11:23] <daubers> gord: That's a better idea!
[11:26] <popey> haha
[11:26] <popey> pfffft, its working now isnt it? ☺
[11:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[11:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> it is - thanks for introducing rye.
[11:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> the patch is amazing... + "="
[11:29] <popey> heh
[11:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> right then what's for lunch?
[11:32]  * TheOpenSourcerer is looking forward to this evening. Beer and and all-u-can-eat Chinese with colleagues.
[11:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> Better not have too big a lunch then.
[11:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> oxtail soup?
[11:54] <czajkowski> First LOPUG Meetup on Thursday 17th May, 6:45 onwards http://www.meetup.com/London-PaaS-User-Group-LOPUG/events/62834262/
[12:15] <AlanBell> what are we calling PaaS this week?
[12:16] <MartijnVdS> Ponies!
[12:16] <popey> Ponies As A Service
[12:17] <directhex> pandas > ponies
[12:19] <MartijnVdS> pangolins?
[12:20] <directhex> also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_QPz0ZX1Y0
[12:20] <AlanBell> well it appears to be platform as a service, which is totally different to software as a service or infrastructure as a service, and anyone confusing them is just exposing their lack of hipness
[12:23] <AlanBell> oh my percentage of U1 storage used has gone up, it must be doing something now :)
[12:23] <popey> Popeys As A Service, it scales up well, but not down.
[12:23] <MartijnVdS> popey: "*sigh* You need _another_ member of my family?"
[12:24] <popey> NEED MOAR POPEY
[12:26] <directhex> i wonder if minecraft multiplayer works now i have 75mbit dsl
[12:26] <MartijnVdS> unlikely
[12:27] <AlanBell> juju add-unit popey
[12:27] <popey> hah
[12:27] <popey> juju expose popey
[12:27] <bigcalm_laptop> Eww
[12:27] <popey> avert your gaze!
[12:27] <AlanBell> eww
[12:28] <davmor2> EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!
[12:28]  * MartijnVdS puts the videos on youtube
[12:28]  * DJones issues a takedown notice on youtube for inappropriate classification as a "U" and not "R" rated
[12:29]  * drussell also ensures that the soundtrack "the full monty" is muted on the video track
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> DJones: I uploaded these earlier (no popey though, he was on the other side of the planet when this was recorded ;)
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> DJones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MCtBsx5qO0&list=PL65507731C2EBA66A&feature=plpp_play_all
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> The one week everyone was out of town for a UDS, I came to London 8-)
[12:32] <popey> safe
[12:33] <MartijnVdS> popey: safe?
[12:33] <DJones> Arghhhhh... Will somebody give the greeks €xB so that the exchange markets will get some confidence back & the rates will stop going up & down like a rollercoaster
[12:33] <MartijnVdS> DJones: Only if they start paying their taxes now
[12:34] <DJones> The Greeks always pay for their taxi's, teh driver doesn't let them out otherwise
[12:34] <DJones> :)
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ @ DJones
[13:01] <gfdd> hello world
[13:03] <MooDoo> hello
[13:03] <s-fox> hello MooDoo
[13:07] <bigcalm_laptop> Hello Moto
[13:09] <MooDoo> s-fox: hello :D
[13:10] <s-fox> how are you doing MooDoo  ?
[13:11] <MooDoo> s-fox: i'm doing ok thanks :D
[13:11] <s-fox> good
[13:11] <MooDoo> s-fox: you?
[13:11] <s-fox> MooDoo,  so so, managed to fix my blog
[13:12] <MooDoo> s-fox: yes i saw your tweet
[13:15] <bigcalm_laptop> Anybody here done any work with ISO 8583 type messages?
[13:23] <daubers> Woot! Raspberry pi now ordered :D Should be here in 3 weeks
[13:35] <DJones> Quote of the day "Mr Cowdrey added that even rabbit food was VAT exempt "as they are classed as a food source, even though most rabbits are kept as pets"." Who keeps rabbits to provide food for their family?
[13:35] <AlanBell> they are allowed on allotments for that purpose
[13:36] <AlanBell> depending on local rules
[13:37] <DJones> Its not something I've ever seen, was just reading about dog food for working dogs being at a low vat rate, while normal food used by guide dogs was at full rate, guide dogs for the blind were asking why they were penalised and that quote about rabbits was at the end
[13:39]  * AlanBell wonders what VAT rate chicken feed is at. I will check the receipt next time I get some.
[13:41] <DJones> should be 0 rated
[13:41] <DJones> All food for poultry and game birds is zero-rated.
[13:42] <AlanBell> I might have to go home via pets at home to find out
[13:42]  * TheOpenSourcerer has just wandered upstairs to say hi to our Accountants.
[13:42] <DJones> http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000124&propertyType=document#P208_11044 Section 8.3
[13:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> And the Accountants wandered downstairs to see where we are ;-)
[13:43] <DJones> That'll only be so they know where to send the bill for your visit to them
[13:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> they knew that anyway :-)
[13:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> We have both recently moved offices - into the same building.
[13:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> They have rather more Sq feet than we do...
[13:45] <DJones> Yes, but you went to visit them, so they'll have to raise a bill now, no doubt round it up the nearest full day, so a 10 minute visit will cost you a days time for them
[13:45] <DJones> Thats why they can afford more Sq feet then you
[13:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Actually, and amazingly, they aren't that bad.
[13:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> But your point is noted
[13:46]  * TheOpenSourcerer sends a wol packet to his desktop in the "other" office
[13:47] <DJones> Where I used to work, if you looked at anything for a client, you had to charge a minimum of 15 minutes to the client, even if it only took a minute, some staff could charge an 8 hour day by the late morning tea break
[13:59] <Myrtti> ah yes, remember the background image I did some time ago, the one I wondered about the 0 or O as round as possible?
[14:01] <Myrtti> if anyone is interested what was the actual inspiration for that, then https://plus.google.com/100016383867666174158/posts/Ta5ttm27oqd - finally done and in my finger
[14:03] <Myrtti> if animated gifs aren't your thing, I'm sorry
[14:20] <SuperMatt> pretty damn sweet!
[15:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Arghhhhhhh! The VPN connection dialogue has now disappeared from the network indicator menu jobby wotsit.
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it has?
[15:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - my defined connection setting are still there when you go into "Edit Connections..." But there is Connect to VPN item.
[15:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> This bloody upgrade is the worst EVAH.
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> Anything in the log (/var/log/syslog)?
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> It's still there for me...
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> maybe you don't have the relevant network-manager plugin installed (anymore)?
[15:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> it was there yesterday evening.
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: I'd start with checking syslog
[15:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> what for?
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> for something concerning VPNs
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> (3G sometimes drops from my menu as well)
[15:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> The menu item when you click on the network indicator is missing.
[15:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not that the VPN doesn't work. I can't start it.
[15:57] <popey> the packages are still installed?
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: Yeah that happens for my 3G modem as well sometimes
[15:57] <popey> network-manager-openvpn etc?
[15:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> I didn't uninstall them
[15:57] <popey> i didnt ask that ☺
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it just disappears from the menu for a few minutes sometimes, and then the log is being spammed
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: killing/restarting nm-applet might help too
[15:57] <mattt> TheOpenSourcerer: time to switch to mac os x
[15:58] <bigcalm_laptop> Is it home time?
[15:58]  * mattt jokes
[15:58] <mattt> bigcalm_laptop: yea, packing up now
[15:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: They are still installed according to apt.
[15:58] <popey> is there a network manager log?
[15:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> how do I kill restart the indicator?
[15:58] <MartijnVdS> popey: yes, in /var/log
[15:59] <MartijnVdS> it uses syslog
[15:59] <popey> ah
[15:59] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: kill "nm-applet"
[15:59] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it might auto-restart, if it doesn't just restart manually
[15:59]  * bigcalm_laptop slithers away homewards
[16:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Restarting the applet has returned my missing menu items - thank you.
[16:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> now. What was I about to do before I was hindered by incredibly buggy software.
[16:01] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: filing bugs? :P
[16:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh no that was it. Connecting to a customer's VPN.
[16:02] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: did you by any chance change your network config?
[16:02] <popey> set a static ip for example?
[16:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> nope.
[16:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> I turn my PC off at night.
[16:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> That is all.
[16:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> It gets woken up by WOL for backups and then shutdown again during the night.
[16:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> I haven't reconfigured networking on this machine at all. It's just plain old dhcp over eth0
[16:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Now I am going to turn it off again and go and drink lots of beer. :-)
[16:11] <mattt> someone say beer?
[16:11] <mattt> and on that note, heading home
[16:11]  * mattt is afk
[16:27] <Darael> Got an interesting problem here - not Ubuntu-specific, but maybe someone can point me at a better channel to ask in?  The network connection I'm on is reasonably fast - for the first couple of seconds of any connection, after which it drops to about 2kbps.  Cancelling downloads and resuming gets another chunk at high speed, but it's a right pain for dist-upgrades.
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> Darael: http://www.bufferbloat.net/ ?
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> Darael: Or maybe the PC and switch/router disagree on duplex mode
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> Darael: (full/half duplex)
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> maybe path mtu discovery doesn't work because of blocked ICMP?
[16:30] <Darael> It's not a duplex-mode disagreement, I'm sure of that.  Buffer bloat sounds plausible.  How might I test for blocked ICMP?
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> Darael: did you set a local firewall?
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> (iptables)
[16:32] <Darael> I haven't, as I recall, but it's been eight months or so since I've seen this network.
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> Darael: setting local mtu lower would probably work
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> Darael: ip link set eth0 mtu 1000
[16:32] <MartijnVdS> Darael: iptables-save shows all current iptables rules
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> Darael: (default mtu for ethernet is 1500)
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> (in case you want to reset it :))
[16:46] <Darael> MartijnVdS: Sorry about that; I'm flip-flopping between a 3G dongle and the wired connection in order to have a functioning connection when not testing something, and it plays merry hell with my SSH session (running irssi in screen elsewhere) even though I don't disconnect the dongle.  Sodding network-manager.
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> Darael: ip route -- switching the default route should be enough :)
[16:48] <MartijnVdS> Darael: did you get my list of commands to try?
[16:48] <Darael> When I reconnected my screen session, yes.  Thanks.
[16:52] <popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KeyboardShortcuts
[16:52]  * popey chuckles at Ctrl + Alt + Delete 
[16:52] <popey> "Restart the computer immediately, without saving open files "
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> it saves open files otherwise/
[16:56] <Darael> Well, it gives programs a chance to block the restart and ask you to save files, IIRC.
[16:57] <popey> (It doesn't actually work thankfully)
[16:57] <Darael> Not if you do it from the command-line, naturally, but if you use the "shutdown" menu item, as most users will.
[16:58] <Darael> /Actually/ restating without saving is just a sudo shutdown -r now away.  Or a sudo reboot.  Or, in emergencies, REISUB.
[17:00] <Darael> Although I have had lockups that didn't respond to 'magic sysrq keys' before.  Generally graphics-related.
[17:07] <Darael> MartijnVdS: After mucking with my routing table a bit to ensure this link stays up when I set the default to the ethernet... that certainly seems to have made a difference.  Thanks.
[17:08] <Darael> Hmm, or not.
[17:08] <Darael> This is very odd.  Maybe it's just HTTP connections, which, considering I know there's no proxies involved, is very odd.
[17:59] <zleap> where does ubuntu cache .deb files ?
[18:01] <directhex> /var/cache/apt/archives
[18:01] <zleap> thabks
[18:01] <zleap> do i use that for things like aptoncd
[18:02] <zleap> I want to create a custom install cd
[18:03] <zleap> ok aptoncd seems to list what is in there anyway
[18:19] <AlanBell> wow, just logged on to a new server and run top, pressed 1 to get per-core breakdown of activity and got the message that the terminal wasn't big enough to display it :)
[18:19] <AlanBell> 24 cores
[18:19] <AlanBell> or 12 hyperthreaded
[18:41] <zleap> nice,
[18:41] <majster-pl> Hello! Any one tried to get free stickers from System76 through Ubuntu UK Team ??
[18:42] <zleap> no sorry
[18:42]  * zleap is making a custom cd
[18:45] <majster-pl> I send it few days ago and yesterday I get my envelop back from Royal Mail saying the addressee unknown... ?
[18:45] <zleap> hmm
[18:46] <zleap> are these raspberry pI stickers
[18:46] <DJones> majster-pl: Which address did you send the request to
[18:47] <majster-pl> DJones, The Linux Emporium, Bridge House, 17a Maybrook Road, Sutton Coldfield, Birmingham, B76 1AL UK
[18:48] <DJones> Try this address http://shop.linuxemporium.co.uk/merchandise/ubuntu.html?SID=b29cafeaefb9bc1d1e61c27cc091f6fc
[18:48] <DJones> They may have moved premises, that link has got an address direct from the linux emporium's own website
[18:50] <majster-pl> DJones, thanks, I will try this address then...
[18:50] <DJones> good luck
[18:50] <majster-pl> :D
[18:52] <zleap> is the idea behind aptoncd thast I point a package installer at the cd iso or cdrom with the contents on so it installs from cd
[19:50] <jacobw> chow
[19:57] <ali1234> 18 months and unity still can't keep track of which display a window is on
[21:00] <AlanBell> wayland will fix it
[21:19] <ali1234> does wayland even have a window manager yet??
[21:19] <ali1234> i saw that wayland on raspi demo the other day. no window manager yet
[21:20] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItv4HX5r3k
[21:20] <ali1234> that's state of the art for wayland apparently
[21:23] <directhex> from the FAQ:
[21:24] <directhex> How can I replace Wayland's Window Manager?
[21:24] <directhex> The Wayland architecture integrates the display server, window manager and compositor into one process. You can think of Wayland as a toolkit for creating clients and compositors. It is not a specific single compositor or window manager. If you want a different window manager, you can write a new one.
[21:24] <ali1234> exactly
[21:24] <ali1234> "you can write a new one"
[21:24] <ali1234> and nobody has even written an old one yet
[21:25] <directhex> the video you posted isn't the state of the art for wayland, it's current progress on porting wayland to the rpi's broadcom graphics chip
[21:26] <ali1234> what is state of the art then?
[21:27] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdKwSrwxIYA
[21:27] <ali1234> that appears to have some rudimentary window management
[21:28] <ali1234> though for some reason every window looks different and some have no decoration at all
[21:31] <directhex> the state of the art is running a port of xeyes! http://willthompson.co.uk/misc/wayland-eyes/weston-eyes.webm
[21:33] <ali1234> also i love the next paragraph of the FAQ
[21:33] <directhex> very short version: window decoration on x is handled by the window manager; on wayland it's provided by the app itself. every window looks different to test different ways of doing things with different toolkits. it's all semi-proof-of-concept right now.
[21:34] <ali1234> great, so i have to look forward to the bad old days of X11 where every app looks completely different?
[21:34] <directhex> sure, if you assume what you see now has any bearing on the end result
[21:35] <AlanBell> sudo apt-get install weston
[21:35] <ali1234> how long before it actually graduates beyond proof of concept?
[21:35] <AlanBell> and you can run some rather poor terminals in a window
[21:35] <AlanBell> ali1234: 12.10 funnily enough in a strange way
[21:35] <ali1234> oh?
[21:36] <AlanBell> there will probably be a system compositor, so wayland from start to finish
[21:36] <AlanBell> very very cut down wayland/weston
[21:36] <AlanBell> running full screen X
[21:36] <ali1234> and how long before it can completely replace X11?
[21:36] <AlanBell> bit longer
[21:37] <ali1234> just for local usage i mean
[21:37] <AlanBell> but it does run now, in a window or from a terminal it runs as a full thingie
[21:37] <ali1234> i gather X11 wil always be required as a network protol at least
[21:37] <AlanBell> not neccessarily
[21:37] <AlanBell> gtk applications run in weston already if you turn off the canonical kookieness
[21:38] <ali1234> not over the network
[21:38] <AlanBell> liboverlayscrollbar and global menus
[21:38] <AlanBell> X11 might not be the best over the network protocol in the world evar
[21:38] <ali1234> it probably is though
[21:38] <ali1234> i don't know any other one that works with *everything*
[21:38] <AlanBell> it isn't going away soon
[21:39] <ali1234> vnc certainly isn't an adequate replacement
[21:39] <AlanBell> no, it isn't
[21:39] <AlanBell> but something gtk level might be
[21:40] <AlanBell> something that would allow you to move a running application from one place to another
[21:40] <AlanBell> like screen for GUI applications (yes, I know of the things that kinda do that)
[21:41] <ali1234> yeah, but what about Qt?
[21:41] <ali1234> what about things that don't use either?
[21:44] <AlanBell> no idea
[21:45] <directhex> eventually? i anticipate X compatibility layer foo
[21:45] <ali1234> yes, me too
[21:45] <ali1234> ie just the protocol
[21:46] <AlanBell> I expect things to use toolkits that support it
[21:46] <AlanBell> and I expect the X compatibility stuff will exist
[21:47] <AlanBell> but right now I can't have an application running on a server but presenting on my laptop disconnect itself and turn up on my phone without stopping
[21:47] <ali1234> so you basically expect everyone to rewrite all legacy software using a modern toolkit?
[21:47] <AlanBell> eventually, yes
[21:48] <AlanBell> but that might be a 20 year timeframe
[21:48] <AlanBell> I will have my flying car by then
[21:48] <christel> !
[21:48] <ali1234> in 20 years wayland will be deprecated in favour of something else
[21:49] <ali1234> if people were prepared to learn how to use well-engineered software properly wayland wouldn't even be necessary
[21:49] <bigcalm> Will you care in 20 years? ;)
[21:49] <ali1234> probably, i know i sound like a grumpy old man but i'm only 31
[21:52] <ali1234> tbh i'll still probably be using X11 in 20 years
[21:53] <directhex> the core X engineers i know think wayland is the future and X is a pile of poopy. i have reason to trust their opinion
[21:54] <ali1234> i don't disagree
[21:54] <ali1234> i just don't have any confidence in wayland actually delivering something usable before i die
[21:59]  * AlanBell readys the cryochamber for ali1234 
[22:00] <ali1234> on a completely different subject, when mdtool says "Build complete -- 1 error, 0 warnings" how do i find out what the error was?