[00:57] <jyo> jtatum: Yeah. Caught him on Gchat yesterday. Email him?
[00:59] <philipballew> gnomememes.tumblr.com
[00:59] <philipballew> slightly funny ^
[01:58] <philipballew> Time for some more Mineral Water!
[04:47] <philipballew> Third Mineral water today!
[05:04] <greg-g> I should get something good to drink, I've only had 2 beers since lunch time
[06:37] <philipballew> bkerensa, so were you givin any information about these hp cloud servers they gave you?
[06:54] <epikvision> hey guy
[06:54] <epikvision> s
[06:54] <philipballew> epikvision, hello!
[06:55] <epikvision> hey philipballew
[06:55] <epikvision> grantbow, are you present?
[06:55] <philipballew> so if you want to install linux desktops in school there are many benifits, but you just have to convince the admins to see them
[06:55] <philipballew> epikvision, I assume people are gone as its midnight
[06:56] <epikvision> sigh
[06:56] <epikvision> i should've brought this up earlier
[06:56] <philipballew> I said ask him, because he gave the talk you saw at uds. however he is not here now most likely
[06:58] <pleia2> philipballew: I don't know context in this case, but it's not just about "the admins"
[06:58] <philipballew> why the rush?
[06:58] <philipballew> haha, well good luck dude
[06:58] <pleia2> there are a lot of funding, district-level stuff and other complications in public schools which are pretty much impossible to get around
[06:59] <epikvision> impossible?
[06:59] <epikvision> :(
[06:59] <philipballew> yeah epikvision
[06:59] <pleia2> partimus only works in public charter schools
[06:59] <epikvision> charter schools, ahh
[06:59] <pleia2> we're in the library of one unified school district school, but they literally sneak us in the back door
[06:59] <philipballew> thats true
[07:00] <pleia2> I spoke to several people at SCALE who were putting linux in schools, their experiences mirrored that of Partimus - even people who have worked for public schools
[07:00] <philipballew> probably in the middle of the night and you wear all black
[07:00] <pleia2> they all either moved to charter schools, or only target charter schools (like we do), to succeed
[07:01] <epikvision> pleia2: can you tell me about Partimus?
[07:01] <epikvision> what is it exactly
[07:01] <pleia2> it's a non-profit which takes in hardware donations and coordinates volunteers to take the hardware donations and build and maintain labs in a few bay area schools
[07:01] <philipballew> yeah, linux is not established on the desktop
[07:02] <pleia2> philipballew: it's more complicated than that :(
[07:02] <pleia2> there are funding things tied to technology (they need to spend their tech budget or they lose it), approvals for software, requirements for software and what needs to be supported
[07:02] <philipballew> I know pleia2 . I was just trying to simplify it down. Its near impossible to do so.
[07:02] <epikvision> yeah
[07:02] <epikvision> but at least i'm getting it
[07:03] <pleia2> even if it was established on the desktop it would be a hard sell (it took a decade or longer for Windows to make it in to schools after Apple took over, in some schools Apple still dominates)
[07:03] <pleia2> once Windows was a success in the consumer market
[07:04] <epikvision> now, it's a hag in the school market
[07:04] <pleia2> well, they are making progress again with the ipads in schools (shudder)
[07:04] <epikvision> oh my
[07:05] <pleia2> did you see bug 1000000? :)
[07:05] <epikvision> does ubuntu have its own gradepro softwre?
[07:05] <philipballew> windows desktops are used 100 at my school, yet about 70 percent of students use osx
[07:05] <pleia2> gradepro?
[07:05] <philipballew> I thiught that was a good bug pleia2
[07:05] <epikvision> grade inputting app
[07:06] <epikvision> application for teachers
[07:06] <pleia2> there is very little consumer-level software released for linux
[07:06] <epikvision> mmm
[07:06] <pleia2> there may be some you can get working on ubuntu, particularly if it's web-based
[07:07] <philipballew> weve seen that lately
[07:07] <epikvision> sounds nice
[07:07] <scientes> philipballew, "70 percent of students use osx"
[07:07] <pleia2> yeah, the partimus schools all use a lot of web software, so we need to make sure their java and flash packages work well
[07:07] <scientes> rich kid school?
[07:08] <scientes> pleia2, i havn't used java for years
[07:08] <pleia2> scientes: neither have I, but a lot of web-based games and educational tools still do (we're talking elementary to middle)
[07:08] <scientes> well, scratch that, usgs has a "earth now" applet that is pretty cool--live streams of landsats---but that works fine with the openjdk applet
[07:08] <pleia2> I don't have it installed anywhere
[07:09] <epikvision> maybe, I'm too ambitious.
[07:09] <scientes> pleia2, http://earthnow.usgs.gov/
[07:09] <epikvision> but i don't think it hurts to give it a shot
[07:09] <pleia2> epikvision: what are you trying to do?
[07:09] <epikvision> ahh
[07:09] <scientes> anyways i'm going to go to sleep, pleia2 where is this edu project mailing list?
[07:10] <pleia2> scientes: for partimus? or ubuntu in education in general? or edubuntu dev?
[07:10] <scientes> partimus i believe
[07:10] <philipballew> scientes, around there. might be 60. It definitely is. I have a scholership so I hang out with rich OC kids all day. Really interesting to see the socio-political differences between a rich socal kid and a poor norcal kid
[07:10] <epikvision> pleia2: i'm planning to raise school attention to make Linux the main os
[07:10] <epikvision> xp has been around too long.
[07:11] <pleia2> epikvision: ah, awareness is always good :)
[07:11] <scientes> epikvision, except that vista, and vista 7  suck
[07:11] <pleia2> if you make progress in a california public school I'd be interested to hear about it
[07:11] <epikvision> alright!
[07:11] <scientes> !!
[07:11] <epikvision> I'm pretty revved u
[07:11] <epikvision> up
[07:11] <philipballew> Spread the loco epikvision !
[07:12] <philipballew> a ubuntu high?
[07:12]  * epikvision nods in earnest
[07:12] <epikvision> sleep deprivation won't stop me now!  woot
[07:12]  * epikvision was just kidding
[07:12] <philipballew> that speach my jono at uds really reved you up at the end?
[07:12] <epikvision> yeah
[07:12] <epikvision> it was magnifique
[07:13]  * philipballew wore jono's shirt yesterday
[07:13] <pleia2> me too actually (to a balug meeting)
[07:13]  * epikvision feels jealous
[07:13] <pleia2> I hope you washed it first :)
[07:13] <philipballew> Why would I wash it?
[07:14] <pleia2> hahah
[07:14] <epikvision> pleia2: before I leave, can you suggest some good arguments to present?
[07:14] <epikvision> about adopting open source?
[07:14] <philipballew> Yeah, Made sure to make it not smell like  old spice
[07:14] <pleia2> epikvision: don't talk about cost, it doesn't matter
[07:15] <pleia2> epikvision: talk about freedom in the sense of open data and the free availability of the source code to make changes to the software without paying huge expensive fees to a vendor who locks you in
[07:15] <philipballew> people dont really care about open source, only that it works
[07:15] <epikvision> gotcha, i need to fill up some gaps.
[07:15] <scientes> and teaching kids to be self-suficient
[07:15] <scientes> cause only with free software can they learn about the system
[07:15] <pleia2> philipballew: vendor lock-in is a serious problem :(
[07:16] <philipballew> pleia2, How so?
[07:16] <epikvision> what's vendor lockin
[07:16] <pleia2> schools, companies, government organizations, everyone gets locked into a format and all their data is trapped, they have to keep paying the vendor forever
[07:16] <philipballew> I see many people happly buy the software and love the propitery companies?
[07:16] <scientes> philipballew, open your eyes, half of your technical problems are caused by market pie cutting for mega-conglomerates
[07:16] <pleia2> if the vendor goes out of business, they're in trouble, if they want to leave, they pay mega expensive migration costs
[07:17] <scientes> epikvision, vendor treadmill
[07:17] <pleia2> with open source at least you have the option of figuring out how your data went in, so if there is no easy export tool you can typically get it out without too much trouble
[07:17] <pleia2> still may not be cheap, but at least you're not at the mercy of a black box vendor holding you hostage
[07:17] <philipballew> I know scientes I just dont always think others see i.
[07:17] <philipballew> my college I go to has to have windows 2000 servers running still that controll the locks for the doors
[07:19] <scientes> wtf there is a ubuntu icon character!!!!
[07:19] <scientes> http://www.jorgecastro.org/images/column80.png
[07:19] <pleia2> epikvision: even if you don't succeed, getting people to start thinking about these things, or remembering pains in the past (I assure you many have had trouble with vendor lock in), they may be more open in the future
[07:19] <philipballew> i agree that cost is not an issue, people always bring up that point, but its not that big of a deal to get a giant reuseable windows licance key
[07:20] <scientes> philipballew, and the first thing microsoft does is offer them a DRASTICALLY reduced license to keep ppl from switching
[07:20] <pleia2> philipballew: schools tend to get pretty deep discounts from microsoft
[07:20] <philipballew> I have one for work that I never use
[07:20]  * epikvision chuckles
[07:20] <epikvision> why not just install ubuntu there as well?
[07:21] <philipballew> +1
[07:21] <scientes> http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1998/07/20/245683/index.htm
[07:21] <scientes> Bill Gates: "Although about three million computers get sold every year in China, people don't pay for the software. Someday they will, though. And as long as they're going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade. "
[07:21] <pleia2> epikvision: you're local to the bay area, right?
[07:21] <epikvision> no
[07:21] <epikvision> unfortunately
[07:21] <pleia2> doh
[07:21] <pleia2> how'd you get to UDS? :)
[07:21] <philipballew> i get free coppies if I want as I am a computer informations student
[07:22] <epikvision> I live in Los Angeles
[07:22] <pleia2> ah
[07:22] <epikvision> XD my dad was really nice to bring me there
[07:22] <pleia2> your dad rocks :)
[07:22] <philipballew> hi five for dad
[07:22] <scientes> philipballew, I get free copies of Ubuntu , on nice pressed CDs, at UDS :))
[07:22] <epikvision> thanks!  And I sacrificed ap week to check out the Ubuntu community
[07:22] <epikvision> now, from my dormancy, I arose with newfound purpose.
[07:22] <pleia2> epikvision: might want to check out http://www.komputers4rkids.com/
[07:23] <philipballew> scientes, as did I. I took like 50 of them!
[07:23] <pleia2> epikvision: if you get even a single teacher interested who can put a computer in their classroom, k4rk can probably hook you up
[07:23] <philipballew> epikvision, you know dave (iheartubuntu) has a small buissness he runs where he installs ubuntu on desktops
[07:24] <epikvision> really?!
[07:24] <epikvision> funny, I don't see him at ubuntu hour at pasadena often
[07:24] <pleia2> he's been mega busy lately :\
[07:24] <philipballew> I think so, he used to. he has a lot of small business that he actually never does anything with but still owns them
[07:25] <philipballew> I talked stalks with him for a good hour today
[07:25] <philipballew> *stocks
[07:26] <philipballew> pleia2, He was able to run those open weel sessions though
[07:26] <philipballew> *week
[07:26] <pleia2> yeah, can do those from home :)
[07:27] <pleia2> he wasn't able to make it out to scale this year, was sad
[07:27] <philipballew> true. i was hoping to see him as uds. but only richard came
[07:27] <pleia2> and he was only around for a couple days
[07:27] <philipballew> I was sad I wanted to see him there
[07:28] <philipballew> yeah, had to go back to la. hes a professional dev for his own small company
[07:28]  * pleia2 nods
[07:28] <philipballew> he is going to be working this year writting docs for peoople porting apps to ubuntu iirc
[07:28] <pleia2> yeah, and trying to get app dev stuff out to the broader programming communities
[07:29] <pleia2> we're very good at talking to our choir ;)
[07:29] <philipballew> exactly. the problem is that the people who write the app portal only know ubuntu, so windows devs have a hard time coming to join.
[07:30] <epikvision> we need people with the best of both worlds, huh
[07:30] <philipballew> im a horrible programmer
[07:30] <scientes> as are most windows programmers ;)
[07:31] <pleia2> hehe
[07:31] <philipballew> the only thing I have close to a windows install around me is a reactos vm
[07:31] <scientes> ugggghhhh
[07:32] <scientes> I guess they help wine
[07:32] <epikvision> hahah
[07:32] <philipballew> maybe that counts
[07:33] <philipballew> its open source
[07:34] <philipballew> scientes, whats wrong with reactos?
[07:36] <pleia2> it's kind of a joke ;)
[07:37] <pleia2> even if it ran well, it can never be a serious OS, Microsoft would shut them down (and be well within their intellectual property rights to do so)
[07:39] <epikvision> pleia2: thanks very much for helping me out
[07:40] <epikvision> i've teamed up with another senior from my school who's into this cause as well
[07:40] <scientes> pleia2, "IP" as a word only causes confusion
[07:40] <pleia2> you're welcome :) feel free to nudge if you have other questions, particularly about the technologies we use and such, I'm happy to help
[07:42] <epikvision> pleia2: alright, have a good night!  tomorrow's the last day of standard testing.
[07:43] <epikvision> you too scientes
[07:43] <pleia2> epikvision: night, good luck!
[07:48]  * pleia2 sleep &
[07:53] <scientes> sleep[1]: terminated
[22:41] <jyo> jtatum: ping
[22:58] <jtatum> hi jyo