/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/17/#ubuntustudio-devel.txt

ailolen-dt: I think what the problem might be in that case is that you can't set jack to sync from an external source?00:44
ailoBut you can do that for ice1712 from the mixer00:45
ailoI guess jack would need to be able to sync to something over network though00:45
ailoBut, isn't all syncing hardware specific, and needs to be set for the device specifically.00:46
ailoWhen I synced my ice1712's I set one of them to sync from an external source, and used the spdif connections for the sync00:47
ailoBoth on the same machine, both run by jack simultaniously00:47
ailoBut with the two as one alsa config00:47
len-dtailo, In my case the master is not connected to the computer at all.00:50
len-dtIt is not a problem really, I just have to set jack and the master the same.00:51
len-dtI have read something like this before (jack site maybe) That jack does not handle changes to rate made by external programs.00:52
ailoI've only once synced two machines for a recording. One had firewire, the other pci. We used Cubase, which has a soft sync00:53
ailospdif00:54
ailoNot only did the cards sync, but also transport on both machines00:55
ailoSo, you controlled both from one00:55
ailoDoesn't seem like it would require too much coding to make that happen for linux as well00:57
ailoMaybe it does? I haven't investigated00:58
len-dtSync will happen, that is not a problem. Jack just doesn't know it is happening.01:05
len-dtJack thinks there is only ever one card in the system01:05
len-dtI only mention this stuff in case one of us has a user asking questions ailo 01:09
ailolen-dt: Have you checked out the --clocksource argument for jack?01:18
ailoThough that is not driver specific, and may not be relevant for this01:19
ailoMaybe useful for midi, I don't know01:19
ailoI'm trying to understand the three options. system, hpet and cycle01:24
ailosystem is default anyway01:25
ailoDo any sound servers know what sample rate an externally synced device is running at?01:50
len-dtailo, if it isn't in qjackctl I haven't looked at it.02:12
len-dtfrom man jackd it is nothing to do with sample clock though.02:14
len-dtpykaraoke says it handles *.mid files too.02:26
len-dtscratch that last line...02:39
holsteini would like to propose pointing the http://ubuntustudio.org/ URL to a wiki page13:59
holsteinthis one.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio13:59
holsteinjust a forward or a webhop or whatever13:59
knomei'm not sure if that's a good iead14:04
knome*idea14:04
knomeif you point the people to the wiki now, they'll bookmark the wiki page14:05
holsteinim not suggesting that we go back to a site14:05
knomewhen you release the new website, everyone's just going to the wiki (or dismissing any website whatsoever)14:05
holsteinim proposing that for long term14:05
knomeholstein, the new theme is designed and waiting for content only. why would you want to dump that?14:05
holsteinits just a proposal14:06
holsteini would want that for ease of editing content14:06
knomeediting wordpress *is* easy14:06
holsteinsure14:07
len-dtknome, A new website with little content would be better than what is there now.14:07
holsteinbut who can edit?14:07
knomelen-dt, that's scott's call :)14:07
knomeholstein, anybody in a specific group14:07
holsteinwikis are arguably more easily maintainable14:07
holstein*anyone* can ome along and fix whatever14:07
holsteincome*14:07
knomeholstein, for xubuntu, we have access for everybody in the xubuntu-team14:07
len-dtholstein, the wiki is not going away14:07
holsteinright14:07
knomebesides the uubntu wiki is really slow...14:08
holsteinsure, but it works14:08
knomeso does wordpress14:08
holsteinand im just suggesting that it solves a lot of issues14:08
knomethe current site doesn't work, that's true14:08
knomelike?14:08
knomewhat are the benefits comparing to wordpress?14:08
len-dtI think the US website in front of the wiki needs to be closed and not editable by "anyone"14:08
holsteinknome: its dont14:08
holsteindone*14:08
knomeholstein, the website is done too.14:08
holstein*anyone* can edite14:08
holsteinedit*14:08
knomei wouldn't want anybody to edit the xubuntu website14:09
holsteinknome: i dont really feel like its a fair comparison14:09
knomeholstein, why not?14:09
holsteinim not saying "a wiki would be so much better"14:09
holsteinim saying, the wiki is done, and anyone from the community can edit14:09
knomeholstein, you are suggesting to replace the US website with a wiki, why can't i compare?14:09
holsteinknome: you can, im just saying, the wiki is not better, its just arguably more appropriate14:10
knomein xubuntu, we are targeting the website for end-users and people not contributing yet, the wiki for contributors14:10
holsteinsure, and in here, we dont have people14:10
holsteinwe just have a few folks14:10
knomefor developer stuff and stuff WIP, wiki is better14:10
knomeso does xubuntu.14:10
holsteini would like to reduce the edit points14:11
len-dtholstein, US has a focus set by the US team. the website needs to reflect that as that is what users expect. with the wiki people expect anyone might say anything. The website is promotional and needs to be handled by the US team to reflect the direction US is officially going.14:12
knomelen-dt, that's very well said14:12
holsteinsure.. but its not being handled14:12
holsteinits not working14:12
knomeholstein, yes, because it's in a transition state14:12
holsteinright14:12
knomeholstein, take care of the content for the new site, and it can get published14:12
holsteinand its been in that state for over a year that i know of14:12
len-dtAs I said, even something with little content that the user can see is updating would be better than nothing though14:13
knomeyeah, because nobody is working on the content14:13
knomehttps://staging.ubuntustudio.org/14:13
holsteinthe content is cool, right?14:13
holsteini see there are some link updates to make14:14
knomesure.14:14
knomeand things to finalize14:14
knomei can't help with that, i'm not that familiar with US14:15
holsteini will try and instigate some hang in here to sort out the content14:16
holsteini thought we were "set to pop" on the content, and we were waiting for someone somewhere else14:16
knomei'm waiting for scott's ACK to move forward (publish) the website14:17
holsteinScottL, you want to try and set up a few hours to knock this out?14:17
holsteinScottL: maybe sunday evening? i know you are busy through the week...14:18
holsteinmaybe we can crowd source it in here... devide and conquer so to speak14:20
ailoknome: Are the contents for the website fully decided?14:52
ailoAlso, will we be able to edit them at any time?14:53
knomeailo, (1) that you have to ask from scott  (2) yeah14:53
knomeailo, US is able to control who can have which permissions based on LP groups14:55
ailoAs long as (2) is covered, I guess we're ok14:55
knomeailo, with xubuntu, everybody in the xubuntu-website team has admin access, anybody in the xubuntu-team team has editing access to non-published posts14:55
ailoI'm looking at the staging site, and it seems to be missing a lot of content yet14:57
knomeyeah, that's probably trye14:58
knome*true14:58
ailoscott-work: There's been a discussion about the web page. You might like to read the "back-scroll", once it's updated14:58
knomeailo, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website14:59
knomeailo, request to join that team - once you're accepted, you'll have editing rights; )14:59
ailoholstein: I think if we work together, we could finish up all the pages for the web site, make sure the content is ok to be published15:00
ailoProbably a days work if we split some things up?15:00
knomeremember you can always just hide unfinished pages15:00
ailoI guess that's an option too :P. 15:03
knomeor, just publish unfinished - as we eventually did with xubuntu15:03
knomethat gives you some motivation to finish the stuff15:03
ailoThe "Feature Tour" is sketched out. Missing some text and pictures, so not really done. The download links are not linking on the "Download" page. "FAQ" is empty yet. "FL/OSS" has some text, but distros like Puredyne (which is not active anymore) and Studio64 (not active under that name) should probably be removed. "Contribute" needs some work too.15:08
ailoSo 4 areas that need more text and pictures, and the Download section needs to be finished15:09
ailohttps://staging.ubuntustudio.org/15:09
ailoI've started some work that could end up on the faq section, so I could finish that15:10
knomebbl15:19
=== shnatsel is now known as shnatsel|busy
holsteinailo: i was thinking just a meetup on here.. few of us knock it out16:24
holsteinat the end of 2 hours, thats the stie16:24
holsteinsite*16:24
ailoholstein: Sounds good to me16:25
ailoI'm currently working on the faq section, but it's a bit of work, since it's kind of tied in to the wiki16:25
ailoAnd the wiki is a mess, but I'll leave that for later :P16:25
ailoWe really need to fix the wiki up16:25
holsteinyup16:25
ailoOne thing I think we need to do is to drastically minimize it16:26
holsteini sorted out that main landing page a bit earlier16:26
holsteinailo: agreed16:26
ailoholstein: I started a page for hardware support. Could be worked on. Mostly linking to other sites https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/SupportedHardware16:27
ailoI feel that's one of the main Q's a user would have, and therefore needs a central place in FAQ16:27
ailoI added links to it at two places on the wiki, so it's in the system16:28
ailoAlso made sure there are no duplicates, as there does not seem to be16:28
holsteini almost feel like a big page that says "dont bother"16:29
holsteinjust come and ask someone in person16:29
holsteini know, i would have never gotten it without help16:29
holsteini read a bunch of documentation that conflicted with its self, other docs, and what i actually found16:30
ailoYou mean about the wiki as a whole?16:31
holsteina kernel or alsa rev, and device support can drastically change16:31
holsteinailo: really just "how to use JACK"16:31
holsteini usually start by saying all the alternatives and reasons why you likely dont need JACK16:31
ailoIt's a tough one. You would like to keep it minimal, but also have enough info to be valuable16:32
holsteini feel like paul davis is tackling this, or at least thinking about it16:32
holsteinhopefully by 14.04 or whatever, we'll have pulse with the generic kernel rocking some nice latency and stability!!16:32
ailoI guess, if PA would be as well performing as jack it would be enough for most people. But you'd still want the ability to connect software anyway you please, as well as use session software16:34
holsteinpavucontrol is nice16:35
ailoBut not really enough16:35
holsteinhopefully, it could all be do-able in PA16:35
ailoYou'd just need a addon for that, and it would be the same deal though16:35
ailoAnd with ffado becoming alsa (as I've heard), it would really tie things up16:36
holsteinyup16:36
holsteinthats going to simplify things16:36
holsteinusing firewire with pulse16:36
ailoIf we make the wiki extremely minimal, we could make a list of pages that need to be updated between releases, or make sure there are release-based pages for them16:38
ailoIn the end, I don't think there will be that many that needs to be redone each release16:38
ailoThe current wiki is too ambitious for this project16:38
ailoNo unneeded manuals. Make links to places where updated manuals already exist16:40
holsteintotally agree!16:40
holsteinwiki overload!!16:40
scott-workthat all sounds good16:40
scott-worki see my email from ailo and the website team, adding him now16:41
ailothx16:41
scott-workdone16:41
scott-worki plan to spend an hour tonight on the website and then 2-3 hours tomorrow evening16:42
ailoscott-work: I'm working on the FAQ section, and using the wiki FAQ as cross reference. Will try to finish that today. I'll post a link to the Google Doc later16:45
ailoscott-work: https://docs.google.com/document/d/182PaT7rfbgL5iy-NoVCFZkxTjkG6mCiLjoffvBaXC3w/edit16:46
ailoholstein: Maybe we should start a whole new wiki layout from scratch on another page, until we can publish it. I don't think it's easy just start editing the front page17:27
holsteinailo: i kinda wish we could blow em all out17:28
holsteinstart from scratch17:28
ailoholstein: Yes, but we might want to use something from the original wiki17:29
ailoAnd we need to have something up while we're still editing17:29
holsteinailo: im with you!17:29
ailoholstein: Nothing added but the page name https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/NewWiki17:31
ailoOnce it's ready, we just copy and paste it17:31
ailoholstein: So what do we need? 1. Intro to US, 2. Installation instructions (+ hardware support?), 3. minimal usage guide, including configuration 4. Links to other sites (try to get them all in here) 5. Notes on contribution17:35
holsteinnot sure.. im getting a little darker about it17:35
holsteini personaly could see 2 routes.. do i need ubuntustudio?... that one just sends you back to ubuntu17:36
holsteinthe other links to the IRC or the forums17:36
holsteini personally dont feel like there is *any* documentation that we can maintain or keep current enough to be helpful17:36
holsteintheres *so* much hardware out there...17:37
ailoHeh, well I think that's a little too radical on the minimal side17:37
holsteinthat being said.. i with you!17:37
holsteinand i'll get behind whatever you decide and help as i can17:37
ailoI know what you mean, but I feel we can be tactical and make sure there's as little need-to-edit-per-release info as possible17:38
ailoAnd make sure that which is not, is as minimal as possible too17:38
holsteinyup.. im totally confident in you and what you are proposing17:38
ailoMaybe we only need to revise a couple of pages every release. I think we can handle that17:38
holsteinwell.. ideally, we have several hundered folks revising based on their hardware17:39
holsteinjust one line or 217:39
holsteinbut.... lets do what we can17:39
ailoOn hardware, I think we should just give links on most things17:39
holsteinyup.. to alsa and ffado17:40
ailoThe only thing that is a bit of a headache I think, is usb devices17:40
holsteini like that.. or whatever17:40
ailoSo, I'd like to have some info on usb devices for now at least17:40
ailoWe'll make a link "HOWTOS" for anyone who wants to write about *anything* that way it won't mess up the whole front page17:44
ailoSomething like this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/NewWiki18:00
ailoWe'd only need to edit a couple of pages per release for sure18:01
=== shnatsel is now known as shnatsel|busy
ailoScottL: I updated the installation page on the wiki https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ubuntu%20Studio%20Installation19:10
ailoholstein: ScottL: (and anyone else interested) I've done some work on a new wiki, from scratch. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/IRC19:55
ailoSome of the subpages are started, but not yet finished19:55
ailoI was thinking I would redirect a lot from the old wiki here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/HowTos19:55
ailoHopefully, installation will not change for a good while, so that page will not need to be edited once finished19:58
ailoI think mainly keeping links updated, and making sure a short intro on how to use jack is release specific is enough19:58
ailoFor future maintenacne19:58
ailomaintenance*19:58
ailoholstein: Made a page about IRC. Have a look https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/IRC21:03
ailoScottL: I moved the installation page for the wiki so it would be more coherent with the rest of the wiki (everything rooting to UbuntuStudio), added a note to the original one. Here's the new one https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/InstallingUbuntuStudio21:50
ailoLen-nb: holstein: I'm prepared to finish this, and publish it tomorrow (there's still some work to do here and there, particularly to include more info for non audio stuff). Tell me what is missing https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/NewWiki23:07
ailoThat would replace the current front page for the community wiki. And, I'd place the old page content somewhere else23:08
ailoOne thing I do think we should have is at least the Ubuntu Studio logo somewhere23:08
ailoSomething to make it prettier23:08
ailoastraljava: You too23:10
knomeis it because i have (accidentally O:|) ignored astraljava that the previous comment didn't make any sense?23:13
ailoknome: Your precious comment, or mine?23:15
knomeyour :P23:16
ailoI am not ignoring anyone. It's just that he was not apart of the discussion earlier, and that since the wiki is something that is quite general, it would be good to have everyones opinion23:17
knomesure sure ;)23:17
ailoI guess it would be good to have a "team" button so everyone could be noted at the same time23:19
knomehrr.23:20
knomewell, you could add a factoid23:20
ailohmm, I missed both hockey matches today, but it seems to have gone to Finlans favor twice in one day23:26
ailoknome: Just to comment on what you said earlier. I don't have any personal agenda in anything I do here and I don't find your comments either accurate or fitting for the atmosphere on this channel. If someone has a problem with me, or things I have a problem with someone else, I would prefer to be contacted privately23:36
knomewas just kidding. something between me and astraljava :)23:40
ailoIt would be nice if Finland got another goal this year. The statistics on loosing finals really needs some adjustment23:44
ailoAnother gold*23:44
knomeheh23:44
knomemaybe23:44
ailoI guess IRC is such an informal way to discuss things. Many times, you don't know who to talk with about something, since not everyone has the time to focus on everything. But, opinions are always welcome, and in that way, I suppose the mail list is a much better forum for putting things into the open and asking for opinions23:52
knomeagreed23:53
knomeotoh, sometimes you want to move quick, and then irc is optimal23:53

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