[00:44] <ailo> len-dt: I think what the problem might be in that case is that you can't set jack to sync from an external source?
[00:45] <ailo> But you can do that for ice1712 from the mixer
[00:45] <ailo> I guess jack would need to be able to sync to something over network though
[00:46] <ailo> But, isn't all syncing hardware specific, and needs to be set for the device specifically.
[00:47] <ailo> When I synced my ice1712's I set one of them to sync from an external source, and used the spdif connections for the sync
[00:47] <ailo> Both on the same machine, both run by jack simultaniously
[00:47] <ailo> But with the two as one alsa config
[00:50] <len-dt> ailo, In my case the master is not connected to the computer at all.
[00:51] <len-dt> It is not a problem really, I just have to set jack and the master the same.
[00:52] <len-dt> I have read something like this before (jack site maybe) That jack does not handle changes to rate made by external programs.
[00:53] <ailo> I've only once synced two machines for a recording. One had firewire, the other pci. We used Cubase, which has a soft sync
[00:54] <ailo> spdif
[00:55] <ailo> Not only did the cards sync, but also transport on both machines
[00:55] <ailo> So, you controlled both from one
[00:57] <ailo> Doesn't seem like it would require too much coding to make that happen for linux as well
[00:58] <ailo> Maybe it does? I haven't investigated
[01:05] <len-dt> Sync will happen, that is not a problem. Jack just doesn't know it is happening.
[01:05] <len-dt> Jack thinks there is only ever one card in the system
[01:09] <len-dt> I only mention this stuff in case one of us has a user asking questions ailo 
[01:18] <ailo> len-dt: Have you checked out the --clocksource argument for jack?
[01:19] <ailo> Though that is not driver specific, and may not be relevant for this
[01:19] <ailo> Maybe useful for midi, I don't know
[01:24] <ailo> I'm trying to understand the three options. system, hpet and cycle
[01:25] <ailo> system is default anyway
[01:50] <ailo> Do any sound servers know what sample rate an externally synced device is running at?
[02:12] <len-dt> ailo, if it isn't in qjackctl I haven't looked at it.
[02:14] <len-dt> from man jackd it is nothing to do with sample clock though.
[02:26] <len-dt> pykaraoke says it handles *.mid files too.
[02:39] <len-dt> scratch that last line...
[13:59] <holstein> i would like to propose pointing the http://ubuntustudio.org/ URL to a wiki page
[13:59] <holstein> this one.. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
[13:59] <holstein> just a forward or a webhop or whatever
[14:04] <knome> i'm not sure if that's a good iead
[14:04] <knome> *idea
[14:05] <knome> if you point the people to the wiki now, they'll bookmark the wiki page
[14:05] <holstein> im not suggesting that we go back to a site
[14:05] <knome> when you release the new website, everyone's just going to the wiki (or dismissing any website whatsoever)
[14:05] <holstein> im proposing that for long term
[14:05] <knome> holstein, the new theme is designed and waiting for content only. why would you want to dump that?
[14:06] <holstein> its just a proposal
[14:06] <holstein> i would want that for ease of editing content
[14:06] <knome> editing wordpress *is* easy
[14:07] <holstein> sure
[14:07] <len-dt> knome, A new website with little content would be better than what is there now.
[14:07] <holstein> but who can edit?
[14:07] <knome> len-dt, that's scott's call :)
[14:07] <knome> holstein, anybody in a specific group
[14:07] <holstein> wikis are arguably more easily maintainable
[14:07] <holstein> *anyone* can ome along and fix whatever
[14:07] <holstein> come*
[14:07] <knome> holstein, for xubuntu, we have access for everybody in the xubuntu-team
[14:07] <len-dt> holstein, the wiki is not going away
[14:07] <holstein> right
[14:08] <knome> besides the uubntu wiki is really slow...
[14:08] <holstein> sure, but it works
[14:08] <knome> so does wordpress
[14:08] <holstein> and im just suggesting that it solves a lot of issues
[14:08] <knome> the current site doesn't work, that's true
[14:08] <knome> like?
[14:08] <knome> what are the benefits comparing to wordpress?
[14:08] <len-dt> I think the US website in front of the wiki needs to be closed and not editable by "anyone"
[14:08] <holstein> knome: its dont
[14:08] <holstein> done*
[14:08] <knome> holstein, the website is done too.
[14:08] <holstein> *anyone* can edite
[14:08] <holstein> edit*
[14:09] <knome> i wouldn't want anybody to edit the xubuntu website
[14:09] <holstein> knome: i dont really feel like its a fair comparison
[14:09] <knome> holstein, why not?
[14:09] <holstein> im not saying "a wiki would be so much better"
[14:09] <holstein> im saying, the wiki is done, and anyone from the community can edit
[14:09] <knome> holstein, you are suggesting to replace the US website with a wiki, why can't i compare?
[14:10] <holstein> knome: you can, im just saying, the wiki is not better, its just arguably more appropriate
[14:10] <knome> in xubuntu, we are targeting the website for end-users and people not contributing yet, the wiki for contributors
[14:10] <holstein> sure, and in here, we dont have people
[14:10] <holstein> we just have a few folks
[14:10] <knome> for developer stuff and stuff WIP, wiki is better
[14:10] <knome> so does xubuntu.
[14:11] <holstein> i would like to reduce the edit points
[14:12] <len-dt> holstein, US has a focus set by the US team. the website needs to reflect that as that is what users expect. with the wiki people expect anyone might say anything. The website is promotional and needs to be handled by the US team to reflect the direction US is officially going.
[14:12] <knome> len-dt, that's very well said
[14:12] <holstein> sure.. but its not being handled
[14:12] <holstein> its not working
[14:12] <knome> holstein, yes, because it's in a transition state
[14:12] <holstein> right
[14:12] <knome> holstein, take care of the content for the new site, and it can get published
[14:12] <holstein> and its been in that state for over a year that i know of
[14:13] <len-dt> As I said, even something with little content that the user can see is updating would be better than nothing though
[14:13] <knome> yeah, because nobody is working on the content
[14:13] <knome> https://staging.ubuntustudio.org/
[14:13] <holstein> the content is cool, right?
[14:14] <holstein> i see there are some link updates to make
[14:14] <knome> sure.
[14:14] <knome> and things to finalize
[14:15] <knome> i can't help with that, i'm not that familiar with US
[14:16] <holstein> i will try and instigate some hang in here to sort out the content
[14:16] <holstein> i thought we were "set to pop" on the content, and we were waiting for someone somewhere else
[14:17] <knome> i'm waiting for scott's ACK to move forward (publish) the website
[14:17] <holstein> ScottL, you want to try and set up a few hours to knock this out?
[14:18] <holstein> ScottL: maybe sunday evening? i know you are busy through the week...
[14:20] <holstein> maybe we can crowd source it in here... devide and conquer so to speak
[14:52] <ailo> knome: Are the contents for the website fully decided?
[14:53] <ailo> Also, will we be able to edit them at any time?
[14:53] <knome> ailo, (1) that you have to ask from scott  (2) yeah
[14:55] <knome> ailo, US is able to control who can have which permissions based on LP groups
[14:55] <ailo> As long as (2) is covered, I guess we're ok
[14:55] <knome> ailo, with xubuntu, everybody in the xubuntu-website team has admin access, anybody in the xubuntu-team team has editing access to non-published posts
[14:57] <ailo> I'm looking at the staging site, and it seems to be missing a lot of content yet
[14:58] <knome> yeah, that's probably trye
[14:58] <knome> *true
[14:58] <ailo> scott-work: There's been a discussion about the web page. You might like to read the "back-scroll", once it's updated
[14:59] <knome> ailo, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-website
[14:59] <knome> ailo, request to join that team - once you're accepted, you'll have editing rights; )
[15:00] <ailo> holstein: I think if we work together, we could finish up all the pages for the web site, make sure the content is ok to be published
[15:00] <ailo> Probably a days work if we split some things up?
[15:00] <knome> remember you can always just hide unfinished pages
[15:03] <ailo> I guess that's an option too :P. 
[15:03] <knome> or, just publish unfinished - as we eventually did with xubuntu
[15:03] <knome> that gives you some motivation to finish the stuff
[15:08] <ailo> The "Feature Tour" is sketched out. Missing some text and pictures, so not really done. The download links are not linking on the "Download" page. "FAQ" is empty yet. "FL/OSS" has some text, but distros like Puredyne (which is not active anymore) and Studio64 (not active under that name) should probably be removed. "Contribute" needs some work too.
[15:09] <ailo> So 4 areas that need more text and pictures, and the Download section needs to be finished
[15:09] <ailo> https://staging.ubuntustudio.org/
[15:10] <ailo> I've started some work that could end up on the faq section, so I could finish that
[15:19] <knome> bbl
[16:24] <holstein> ailo: i was thinking just a meetup on here.. few of us knock it out
[16:24] <holstein> at the end of 2 hours, thats the stie
[16:24] <holstein> site*
[16:25] <ailo> holstein: Sounds good to me
[16:25] <ailo> I'm currently working on the faq section, but it's a bit of work, since it's kind of tied in to the wiki
[16:25] <ailo> And the wiki is a mess, but I'll leave that for later :P
[16:25] <ailo> We really need to fix the wiki up
[16:25] <holstein> yup
[16:26] <ailo> One thing I think we need to do is to drastically minimize it
[16:26] <holstein> i sorted out that main landing page a bit earlier
[16:26] <holstein> ailo: agreed
[16:27] <ailo> holstein: I started a page for hardware support. Could be worked on. Mostly linking to other sites https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/SupportedHardware
[16:27] <ailo> I feel that's one of the main Q's a user would have, and therefore needs a central place in FAQ
[16:28] <ailo> I added links to it at two places on the wiki, so it's in the system
[16:28] <ailo> Also made sure there are no duplicates, as there does not seem to be
[16:29] <holstein> i almost feel like a big page that says "dont bother"
[16:29] <holstein> just come and ask someone in person
[16:29] <holstein> i know, i would have never gotten it without help
[16:30] <holstein> i read a bunch of documentation that conflicted with its self, other docs, and what i actually found
[16:31] <ailo> You mean about the wiki as a whole?
[16:31] <holstein> a kernel or alsa rev, and device support can drastically change
[16:31] <holstein> ailo: really just "how to use JACK"
[16:31] <holstein> i usually start by saying all the alternatives and reasons why you likely dont need JACK
[16:32] <ailo> It's a tough one. You would like to keep it minimal, but also have enough info to be valuable
[16:32] <holstein> i feel like paul davis is tackling this, or at least thinking about it
[16:32] <holstein> hopefully by 14.04 or whatever, we'll have pulse with the generic kernel rocking some nice latency and stability!!
[16:34] <ailo> I guess, if PA would be as well performing as jack it would be enough for most people. But you'd still want the ability to connect software anyway you please, as well as use session software
[16:35] <holstein> pavucontrol is nice
[16:35] <ailo> But not really enough
[16:35] <holstein> hopefully, it could all be do-able in PA
[16:35] <ailo> You'd just need a addon for that, and it would be the same deal though
[16:36] <ailo> And with ffado becoming alsa (as I've heard), it would really tie things up
[16:36] <holstein> yup
[16:36] <holstein> thats going to simplify things
[16:36] <holstein> using firewire with pulse
[16:38] <ailo> If we make the wiki extremely minimal, we could make a list of pages that need to be updated between releases, or make sure there are release-based pages for them
[16:38] <ailo> In the end, I don't think there will be that many that needs to be redone each release
[16:38] <ailo> The current wiki is too ambitious for this project
[16:40] <ailo> No unneeded manuals. Make links to places where updated manuals already exist
[16:40] <holstein> totally agree!
[16:40] <holstein> wiki overload!!
[16:40] <scott-work> that all sounds good
[16:41] <scott-work> i see my email from ailo and the website team, adding him now
[16:41] <ailo> thx
[16:41] <scott-work> done
[16:42] <scott-work> i plan to spend an hour tonight on the website and then 2-3 hours tomorrow evening
[16:45] <ailo> scott-work: I'm working on the FAQ section, and using the wiki FAQ as cross reference. Will try to finish that today. I'll post a link to the Google Doc later
[16:46] <ailo> scott-work: https://docs.google.com/document/d/182PaT7rfbgL5iy-NoVCFZkxTjkG6mCiLjoffvBaXC3w/edit
[17:27] <ailo> holstein: Maybe we should start a whole new wiki layout from scratch on another page, until we can publish it. I don't think it's easy just start editing the front page
[17:28] <holstein> ailo: i kinda wish we could blow em all out
[17:28] <holstein> start from scratch
[17:29] <ailo> holstein: Yes, but we might want to use something from the original wiki
[17:29] <ailo> And we need to have something up while we're still editing
[17:29] <holstein> ailo: im with you!
[17:31] <ailo> holstein: Nothing added but the page name https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/NewWiki
[17:31] <ailo> Once it's ready, we just copy and paste it
[17:35] <ailo> holstein: So what do we need? 1. Intro to US, 2. Installation instructions (+ hardware support?), 3. minimal usage guide, including configuration 4. Links to other sites (try to get them all in here) 5. Notes on contribution
[17:35] <holstein> not sure.. im getting a little darker about it
[17:36] <holstein> i personaly could see 2 routes.. do i need ubuntustudio?... that one just sends you back to ubuntu
[17:36] <holstein> the other links to the IRC or the forums
[17:36] <holstein> i personally dont feel like there is *any* documentation that we can maintain or keep current enough to be helpful
[17:37] <holstein> theres *so* much hardware out there...
[17:37] <ailo> Heh, well I think that's a little too radical on the minimal side
[17:37] <holstein> that being said.. i with you!
[17:37] <holstein> and i'll get behind whatever you decide and help as i can
[17:38] <ailo> I know what you mean, but I feel we can be tactical and make sure there's as little need-to-edit-per-release info as possible
[17:38] <ailo> And make sure that which is not, is as minimal as possible too
[17:38] <holstein> yup.. im totally confident in you and what you are proposing
[17:38] <ailo> Maybe we only need to revise a couple of pages every release. I think we can handle that
[17:39] <holstein> well.. ideally, we have several hundered folks revising based on their hardware
[17:39] <holstein> just one line or 2
[17:39] <holstein> but.... lets do what we can
[17:39] <ailo> On hardware, I think we should just give links on most things
[17:40] <holstein> yup.. to alsa and ffado
[17:40] <ailo> The only thing that is a bit of a headache I think, is usb devices
[17:40] <holstein> i like that.. or whatever
[17:40] <ailo> So, I'd like to have some info on usb devices for now at least
[17:44] <ailo> We'll make a link "HOWTOS" for anyone who wants to write about *anything* that way it won't mess up the whole front page
[18:00] <ailo> Something like this https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/NewWiki
[18:01] <ailo> We'd only need to edit a couple of pages per release for sure
[19:10] <ailo> ScottL: I updated the installation page on the wiki https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ubuntu%20Studio%20Installation
[19:55] <ailo> holstein: ScottL: (and anyone else interested) I've done some work on a new wiki, from scratch. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/IRC
[19:55] <ailo> Some of the subpages are started, but not yet finished
[19:55] <ailo> I was thinking I would redirect a lot from the old wiki here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/HowTos
[19:58] <ailo> Hopefully, installation will not change for a good while, so that page will not need to be edited once finished
[19:58] <ailo> I think mainly keeping links updated, and making sure a short intro on how to use jack is release specific is enough
[19:58] <ailo> For future maintenacne
[19:58] <ailo> maintenance*
[21:03] <ailo> holstein: Made a page about IRC. Have a look https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/IRC
[21:50] <ailo> ScottL: I moved the installation page for the wiki so it would be more coherent with the rest of the wiki (everything rooting to UbuntuStudio), added a note to the original one. Here's the new one https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/InstallingUbuntuStudio
[23:07] <ailo> Len-nb: holstein: I'm prepared to finish this, and publish it tomorrow (there's still some work to do here and there, particularly to include more info for non audio stuff). Tell me what is missing https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/NewWiki
[23:08] <ailo> That would replace the current front page for the community wiki. And, I'd place the old page content somewhere else
[23:08] <ailo> One thing I do think we should have is at least the Ubuntu Studio logo somewhere
[23:08] <ailo> Something to make it prettier
[23:10] <ailo> astraljava: You too
[23:13] <knome> is it because i have (accidentally O:|) ignored astraljava that the previous comment didn't make any sense?
[23:15] <ailo> knome: Your precious comment, or mine?
[23:16] <knome> your :P
[23:17] <ailo> I am not ignoring anyone. It's just that he was not apart of the discussion earlier, and that since the wiki is something that is quite general, it would be good to have everyones opinion
[23:17] <knome> sure sure ;)
[23:19] <ailo> I guess it would be good to have a "team" button so everyone could be noted at the same time
[23:20] <knome> hrr.
[23:20] <knome> well, you could add a factoid
[23:26] <ailo> hmm, I missed both hockey matches today, but it seems to have gone to Finlans favor twice in one day
[23:36] <ailo> knome: Just to comment on what you said earlier. I don't have any personal agenda in anything I do here and I don't find your comments either accurate or fitting for the atmosphere on this channel. If someone has a problem with me, or things I have a problem with someone else, I would prefer to be contacted privately
[23:40] <knome> was just kidding. something between me and astraljava :)
[23:44] <ailo> It would be nice if Finland got another goal this year. The statistics on loosing finals really needs some adjustment
[23:44] <ailo> Another gold*
[23:44] <knome> heh
[23:44] <knome> maybe
[23:52] <ailo> I guess IRC is such an informal way to discuss things. Many times, you don't know who to talk with about something, since not everyone has the time to focus on everything. But, opinions are always welcome, and in that way, I suppose the mail list is a much better forum for putting things into the open and asking for opinions
[23:53] <knome> agreed
[23:53] <knome> otoh, sometimes you want to move quick, and then irc is optimal