[03:10] <ali1234> !gksu
[06:57] <AlanBell> erk, I broke something
[06:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> oh dear
[06:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> anything important?
[06:59] <AlanBell> I was doing a do-release-upgrade over SSH, it was nearly done but asked some question or other about the config files for snmpd (nothing important)
[06:59] <AlanBell> and the ssh connection dropped overnight
[06:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> ah
[06:59] <AlanBell> I can ssh in, something is locking /var/lib/dpkg/lock
[07:00] <AlanBell> not sure whether to restart and hope, or do some other commands first
[07:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> if nothing "dpkg'ish is running why not just delete the lock or pid?
[07:01] <AlanBell> there is a dpkgish thing running
[07:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> kill it gently?
[07:01] <AlanBell>  /usr/bin/dpkg --force-overwrite --status-fd 13 --configure libgdbm3 libclass-isa-perl perl-modules . . .  and a big long list of hundreds of packages
[07:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> hmm.
[07:02] <AlanBell> just after I started the upgrade it occurred to me I should have done it in a screen session
[07:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> or nohup it with an &
[07:04] <AlanBell> it asks questions
[07:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> ah yes.
[07:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> which machine is this then?
[07:05] <AlanBell> a brand new one, I can get it re-imaged if required
[07:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh I love it when I click on a running icon in the launcher and it fails to take me to the app on another workspace. That is so helpful.
[07:06] <AlanBell> ok, killed it and did dpkg --configure -a and it seems to be asking the same question
[07:08] <AlanBell> upgrade finished, lets see if it reboots
[07:12] <AlanBell> yay \o/
[07:13] <popey> when you do do-release-upgrade it opens a new ssh server i thought
[07:22] <AlanBell> it does
[07:22] <AlanBell> but that doesn't help you to know what to do with it, SSH to the original port worked fine
[07:23] <popey> i guess it was waiting for you to type something
[07:24] <AlanBell> it was
[07:24] <AlanBell> I could see the question, then the disconnect
[07:31]  * TheOpenSourcerer prepares to head off to the office. Gah - commuting sucks.
[07:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
[07:32] <popey> haha
[07:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> My commute is about 10 minutes
[07:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> Neat little device: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/05/new-74-android-mini-computer-is-slightly-larger-than-a-thumb-drive/
[07:42] <daubers> Morning
[07:45] <diplo> See if I can get this Irssi configured nicely now!
[07:46] <diplo> Morning all
[07:51] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:01] <ali1234> http://www.webupd8.org/2012/02/window-applets-finally-available-for.html interesting
[08:23] <ali1234> heh. i think i've found the perfect desktop configuration for precise
[08:23] <ali1234> gnome fallback (no effects) with compositing enabled
[08:23] <ali1234> turns out all the weird bugs in gnome-panel 3 are caused by compiz
[08:27] <ali1234> this is pretty good. i thought i was going to have to fix loads of bugs in barely supported gnome panel, but it turns out it actually works fine
[08:29] <ali1234> also i can now get 60 fps in games, where as with compiz everything was capped at 30 fps
[08:33] <diplo-> Any Irssi users out there recommend a theme to save me trying lot's :)
[08:33] <ali1234> irssi has themes?
[08:34] <diplo-> irssi.org/themes
[08:34] <diplo-> Find the default a bit hard to read
[08:34] <ali1234> hmm actually there is still one bug in gnome-panel that i need to fix
[08:35] <soreau> ali1234: compiz 0.9.x is the unstable version ubuntu uses as a base for their unity desktop. If you want to use compiz, I'd recommend the stable version, 0.8.x
[08:35] <ali1234> i don't!
[08:35] <Myrtti> diplo-: if you end up using mine, I've hot updated versions of them somewhere
[08:35] <ali1234> i just want transparent terminal. metacity gives me that
[08:35] <soreau> ali1234: Also there is a setting to allow fullscreen games to run 'without' compositing, unredirect fullscreen windows
[08:36] <diplo> Which is yours Myrtti ?
[08:36] <ali1234> soreau: yes, i know, it does nothing with nvidia
[08:36] <popey> i dont think i use a theme for irssi
[08:36] <popey> just a bunch of plugins
[08:36] <soreau> ali1234: ok
[08:36] <diplo> Do you amend any of the colours then popey  ?
[08:36] <ali1234> i guess ezoom would be nice to have
[08:36] <popey> i have a thing that colours nicks
[08:36] <soreau> yes, zoom is very nice
[08:36] <Myrtti> I thought it says on there who has made them
[08:36] <ali1234> maybe metacity can do that to though
[08:36] <diplo> Hmm that may work
[08:37] <diplo> So it does Myrtti
[08:37] <diplo> :)
[08:37] <Myrtti> the two on the top you're work fine on white in black background too
[08:38] <ali1234> gotta say, i never had any problems with compiz before unity :/
[08:38] <Myrtti> lol Swype
[08:38] <ali1234> i mean it was never speedy, but it worked
[08:38] <Myrtti> auto correct fail
[08:38] <soreau> ali1234: Yes, they introduced unity the same time they switched to 0.9.x, in 11.04
[08:38] <soreau> it used to be 0.8.x which still works great
[08:39] <ali1234> so... where do i get compiz 0.8.0 for precise?
[08:39] <ali1234> some ppa?
[08:39] <ali1234> Sergey "Shnatsel" Davidoff?
[08:39] <soreau> ali1234: Unfortunately, I do not know of any ppa for it but you can build it from source. I've recently helped a number of people build it and updated the build guide on the compiz wiki
[08:40] <ali1234> fair enough
[08:40] <popey> diplo: http://popey.com/~alan/irssi.png  thats what my irssi looks like
[08:40] <soreau> ali1234: Here is the link in case you're interested http://wiki.compiz.org/Installation/Stable
[08:40] <ali1234> thanks
[08:41] <diplo> The nicks certainly make a difference popey, Got any recommendations ? Seems quite a few on the site :(
[08:41] <diplo> Again don't want to try to many till i get used to Irssi
[08:41] <soreau> ali1234: You'd just want to use --disable-gnome for core since the gnome-specific parts only support gnome2
[08:41] <diplo> Rather try stuff that others think are good
[08:41] <ali1234> soreau: have you actually tried compiz + gnome-panel 3 and observed (or not) any of the problems?
[08:42] <popey> diplo: adv_windowlist.pl  bitlbee_rename.pl  dictcomplete.pl  hilightwin.pl  nickcolor.pl  screen_away.pl  trackbar.pl  twirssi.pl
[08:42] <diplo> ta fanx :)
[08:42] <popey> diplo: ignore bitlbee_rename.pl and twirssi.pl
[08:42] <soreau> ali1234: I'm using it currently and haven't noticed too many issues..
[08:42] <ali1234> eg panel flickers, window list background is wrong colour, application menu is ghosted for no reason...
[08:42] <popey> but  adv_windowlist.pl hilightwin.pl nickcolor.pl screen_away.pl
[08:42] <Myrtti> splitlong.pl
[08:42] <popey> are useful
[08:42] <popey> and trackbar.pl
[08:43] <soreau> ali1234: hm, that sounds like graphics driver and/or compiz ubuntu patches problem
[08:43] <popey> compiz 0.8 will be missing performance stuff added by ubuntu
[08:43] <ali1234> popey: pull the other one, it's got bells on
[08:43] <soreau> popey: 0.8 is faster than 0.9 and stable
[08:43] <popey> i am serious
[08:43] <Myrtti> cap_sasl.pl
[08:44] <ali1234> well, i'll give 0.8 a try
[08:45] <ali1234> i assume installing it will totally break unity
[08:45] <soreau> ali1234: yes, unity will not work with 0.8
[08:45] <soreau> ali1234: If you need any compiz-specific help though, I'm also in #compiz
[08:46] <soreau> but I'm also in .us so just ask and be patient ;)
[08:46] <soreau> for now I have to get some rest, gnite
[08:46] <ali1234> "bleeding-edge version of stable" lol, what?
[08:46] <diplo> Nick color loaded \o/
[08:47] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, people! :D
[08:47] <ali1234> soreau: i'm normally on US time anyway, despite being in the UK
[08:47] <soreau> ali1234: yes, you can pull the very latest from git 0.8 branches or use the packages on releases.compiz.org.. the build guide should explain everything
[08:47] <soreau> If it doesn't, let me know
[08:47] <ali1234> i'll take notes
[08:48] <diplo> Oh I like adv windowlist popey, that was one of the things I didn't like
[08:52] <diplo-> ..
[08:54] <diplo> Running /save will remember Servers/Channels joined ?
[08:54] <SuperMatt> You know, I can never remember how to do that
[08:54] <diplo> Going to read docs tonight so can tell me to RTFM if you like :)
[09:04] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:04] <ali1234> good morning!!!
[09:04] <brobostigon> good morning ali1234
[09:05] <ali1234> :-D
[09:05] <brobostigon> :)
[09:05] <diplo> Morning brobostigon
[09:05] <brobostigon> morning diplo
[09:05] <gord> hurrah, i got my stupid annoying flashing google pin thing working again
[09:05] <ali1234> google pin?
[09:07] <gord> little badge thing with six flashing led's in it, one for each letter
[09:07] <brobostigon> sounds cheesy.
[09:07] <popey> i grabbed 4 for my kids
[09:09] <diplo> Something from UDS ?
[09:09] <ali1234> i assume from the google sideshow/party
[09:09] <popey> ya
[09:10] <popey> the very odd google party
[09:10] <diplo> Didn't know about that part :)
[09:10] <ali1234> "nerds are weird right? so we should make a really weird party for them" /google reasoning
[09:12] <diplo> heh
[09:12] <ali1234> did you not get funny looks going through the airport with loads of flashing LED stuff?
[09:12] <popey> mine were in my case
[09:13] <popey> although my case did get opened by the TSA
[09:13] <ali1234> yep
[09:13] <popey> probably because I had a tablet and 20 yubikeys in it
[09:13] <popey> (the LEDs weren't flashing)
[09:13] <ali1234> my brother came back from aus with a bag with 500 cage nuts in it
[09:13] <ali1234> yes, they opened his case
[09:14] <diplo> yubikeys ?
[09:15] <ali1234> it's a security thing
[09:15] <ali1234> i think it does two factor. not sure on details
[09:15] <diplo> ah I think I've seen those in Linux Format
[09:15] <ali1234> mt.gox gave them away to anyone who got robbed when they were compromised
[09:16] <brobostigon> so similer to the google authenticator app, thingie?
[09:17] <popey> yes
[09:17] <brobostigon> but thats hw, insted of software?
[09:17] <popey> yes
[09:18] <brobostigon> sounds interesting.
[09:20] <brobostigon> i can think of a few applications, for something like that.
[09:20] <popey> you can use one with google logon
[09:22] <brobostigon> like the authenticator app.
[09:22] <diplo> looks quite good
[09:24] <diplo> Something that should be taken up by banks, I think hsbc or similar send out rsa style things, but I'd rather have something like that for login to my web services for banks etc
[09:25] <MooDoo> howdy all
[09:25] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[09:26] <popey> brobostigon: instead of or in addition to the authenticator app
[09:26] <brobostigon> popey: ah, i like the idea, would be interesting to experiement with.
[09:38] <ali1234> hmm... close but no cigar
[09:39] <ali1234> compiz 0.8 works much better than 0.9...much faster, no bugs with gnome panel etc
[09:39] <ali1234> but for some reason window decorations are missing
[09:39] <ali1234> i guess i did something wrong
[09:45] <ali1234> woo, window decorations
[09:45] <ali1234> and no bugs
[09:50] <SuperMatt> \o/
[09:50] <ali1234> still manage to get 60 fps in games too
[09:53] <brobostigon> the yubikey isnt cheap though, $25 each.
[09:54] <popey> $15 if you buy loads
[09:54] <ali1234> free if you get robbed of bitcoins on mt.gox :)
[09:54] <popey> hah
[09:54] <brobostigon> popey: quite yes, but little need for loads,
[09:55] <ali1234> so you know that annoying bug where you can't click in the settings window of flash? fixed by reverting compiz to 0.8
[10:00] <davmor2> morning all
[10:01] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:01] <davmor2> morning MooDoo  me owld mucka how's life
[10:01] <MooDoo> davmor2: not bad thanks
[10:16] <ali1234> metacity has the 1 pixel resize handle bug
[10:16] <ali1234> of course, only with light-themes
[10:18] <ali1234> adwaita is slightly better, the handles are about 3 pixels wide on that one
[10:20] <SuperMatt> why are you using 0.8 again?
[10:21] <ali1234> because 0.9 is slow, crashes all the time, renders white rectangles instead of the window, makes the panel flicker and the wrong colour, makes the menus ghosted for no reason, makes pop up menus resize for no reason, prevents you from using the flash settings, and makes logging in to the system take 45 seconds
[10:21] <ali1234> and yes, all of these bugs have been reported
[10:22] <ali1234> i just never realised so much trouble could be caused by one application
[10:22] <SuperMatt> how did you install it?
[10:23] <ali1234> from source, according to the compiz wiki
[10:23] <SuperMatt> ah right
[10:23] <SuperMatt> hassle /o\
[10:23] <ali1234> http://wiki.compiz.org/Installation/Stable
[10:23] <ali1234> well, feel free to keep begging for ubuntu developers to fix compiz 0.9
[10:23] <ali1234> it's been a year now
[10:23] <ali1234> probably longer
[10:24] <ali1234> this is just begging for a fork so that the last actually working version of compiz can be put into the repos
[10:25] <AlanBell> are these just nvidia bugs?
[10:25] <ali1234> i don't know and i don't care
[10:26] <ali1234> considering that nvidia is the only decent graphics card that work linux
[10:26] <gord> ati seems to work pretty well now
[10:27] <ali1234> last time i tried the fglrx it worked about as well as nouveau
[10:30] <diplo> though irc had gone a bit quiet, my byobu session had disconnected :(
[10:36] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-2d/+bug/878198
[10:36] <ali1234> of course unity-2d uses metacity
[10:37] <ali1234> anyone know a good theme for gtk3 that doesn't have 1px borders?
[10:37] <AlanBell> just change the border size of the light theme
[10:37] <ali1234> i said a *good* theme
[10:39] <ali1234> so annoying
[10:39] <ali1234> that bug could easily be fixed, but of course it would break all the unity-2d stuff
[10:40] <ali1234> so nobody can fix it, and when we complain about it we just get the "send a patch" flip off
[10:40] <ali1234> from people who know very well that a patch will not be accepted
[10:41] <ali1234> bug even has a patch to light-themes
[10:57] <popey> bug 985119
[11:00] <ali1234> weird bug
[11:00] <ali1234> what's the actual problem?
[11:00] <ali1234> missing hardware tab and no volume slider normally means pulseaudio crashed and can be fixed by restarting
[11:00] <ali1234> (or logging out and logging in to gnome classic)
[11:01] <ali1234> or just pulseaudio -D in a terminal
[11:03] <popey> i am having trouble getting my head round it
[11:04] <ali1234> basically ignore all th words and just look at the two screenshots
[11:04] <popey> hah
[11:06] <ali1234> well, imma blame pulseaudio
[13:16] <awilkins> Anyone else going to NHSHackDay?
[13:18] <popey> never heard of it
[13:19] <popey> until just now ;)
[13:37] <bigcalm> Afternoon peeps :)
[13:37] <diplo> ello bigcalm
[13:38] <davmor2> prods bigcalm
[13:38] <bittin> now i installed Ubuntu aswell on my new PC :>
[13:38] <davmor2> prods czajkowski
[13:38]  * bigcalm kippers davmor2 
[13:38]  * davmor2 can't believe that bigcalm would waste that amount of money on kippers
[13:47] <DJones> Afternoon all
[13:48] <bittin> Hello
[13:48]  * bittin updating my fresh 12.04 install
[13:49] <awilkins> Hmmph, I think Virgin are resetting sthings
[13:50] <diplo> Like what awilkins
[13:51] <awilkins> Their customer services website for starters
[13:51] <awilkins> 503
[13:51] <awilkins> Just had my network drop for about half a minute
[13:53] <diplo> We had issues on work business line yesterday, better now though
[13:53] <diplo> Virgin *
[14:17] <MooDoo> due to all the upgrade happening i bet
[14:18] <awilkins> I hope so.... it may mean it's imminent
[14:18] <awilkins> Dropped out in the night a day or so ago as well
[14:24]  * bigcalm shudders at the thought of VM connectivity issues
[14:25] <awilkins> Mine is basically either rock steady or stupidly unreliable
[14:26] <awilkins> The stupidly unreliable period persists until they upgrade the infrastructure to cope with the new tranche of torrenting kiddies they signed up with their latest marketing campaign.
[14:27] <awilkins> I think the period we had here was really just CPU load on the local router from all the connections that BitTorrent spams ; the ping times were ludicrous, just to that first hop
[14:53] <DJones> Ahhhh, day off, car passed its MOT, and a bottle of wine, Can the day get any better
[14:54] <SuperMatt> two bottles of wine
[14:56] <dogmatic69> DJones: day off, car did not need a MOT, and a bottle of wine?
[14:56] <SuperMatt> still could be better with two bottles
[14:56] <dogmatic69> :D
[14:56] <SuperMatt> also plum wine > *
[15:01]  * diplo not like wine :(
[15:01] <diplo> tbh, not the greatest lover of alcohol, can drink lager and a few spirits, but can just as easily go without now adays
[15:02] <diplo> Total opposite to my brother and dad who are quite heavy drinkers
[15:04] <SuperMatt> I found the easiest way to increase the amount you drink is to have a student for a girlfriend
[15:04] <diplo> :p
[15:07] <popey> DJones: minecraft would perfect it
[15:09] <gord> i stopped playing minecraft for a bit, now it has experience and spells and all this other weird stuff so its strange and confusing to me
[15:09] <gord> i remember when it was about being lego :(
[15:11] <DJones> popey: Waiting for a new map, I blew the last one up with TNT
[15:12] <diplo> Never played minecraft
[15:12] <diplo> Didn't want to lose my life to it :)
[15:13] <DJones> popey: We did a tunnel from my house to Laura's and then to the end portal, filled that with tnt after the dragon was killed & let rip :) about 1000 tnt blew
[15:13] <directhex> minecraft is one of those toys which i have trouble with, due to my lack of creativity
[15:13] <daftykins> am i the only one that's amused by video not working on ubuntu 12.04's 'example' video after a clean install? :) i get audio but no picture :D it's using HD theora apparently
[15:13] <daftykins> directhex: +1
[15:14] <directhex> and they're trying to make minecraft be a game rather than a toy
[15:14] <directhex> i am unconvinced
[15:14] <daftykins> FYI i refer to "How Fast.ogg"
[15:15] <awilkins> I'm more interested in 0x10c
[15:15] <awilkins> Sounds like CoreWar, only it might be fun
[15:15] <directhex> AlanBell, know anyhing about zimbra? you alans strike me as the types
[15:21] <BigRedS_> I know a little bit about it, but I'm not an Alan
[15:22] <popey> daftykins: filed a bug?
[15:22] <daftykins> can't be bothered
[15:22] <popey> nice
[15:22] <daftykins> :D
[15:23] <daftykins> well, my last one of Guernsey regionality got nowhere after 2 years
[15:23] <daftykins> i see no likelihood for improvement
[15:23] <daftykins> :P
[15:23] <popey> awesome stats there
[15:23] <daftykins> yip
[15:23] <daftykins> also is it me, or does LibreOffice Writer default to US English?
[15:24]  * popey wanders off
[15:24] <daftykins> heh
[15:26] <popey> just tested it, works fine her
[15:26] <popey> +e
[15:26] <daftykins> the vid?
[15:26] <popey> (the video on a clean system)
[15:26] <daftykins> interesting
[15:26] <daftykins> in movie player yeah?
[15:26] <popey> yes
[15:26] <daftykins> and you selected to install the codecs during installation?
[15:26] <popey> no
[15:26] <daftykins> i didn't to begin, but put them on from the software centre after, made no change
[15:26] <daftykins> i know it's theora but no idea if it's meant to be included
[15:27] <AlanBell> directhex: I have come across zimbra, didn't like it much
[15:27] <AlanBell> it is a big collection of stuff
[15:27] <AlanBell> we don't do email, because people get cross if their email doesn't work
[15:28] <diplo> AlanBell: Now that is a very sensible decision! :)
[15:30] <AlanBell> we use zentyal for our own email
[15:31] <diplo> I have the challenge of setting up and playing with that soon AlanBell
[15:31] <diplo> Got a test box and the software, just need to find some free time to tinker
[15:40] <bigcalm> ctrl + c doesn't seem to be transmitted by a remote terminal, any thoughts?
[15:41] <bigcalm> It's a Debian server, but that shouldn't make any difference
[15:42] <diplo> Someones remapped it ? Our place has remapped Ctrl C to Ctrl O
[15:43] <diplo> Off to take boy disco / swimming, bbl
[15:43] <bigcalm> Whatever the default in Debian 6 is. I know nothing of these things
[17:22] <ali1234> wow, how do you remap ctrl-c?
[17:23] <BigRedS_> and why would you?
[17:23] <ali1234> i dunno
[17:23] <ali1234> just curious how you would do it
[17:39] <bittin> yay i has new PC :)
[17:40] <brobostigon> \o/
[17:43] <popey> hello from my boxee rrremote
[17:43] <popey> hmm
[17:44] <AlanBell> herrrro popey
[17:44] <popey> hmm
[17:44] <popey> dont think the RPi has enough juice to power the usb radio
[17:46] <popey> now it wont boot
[17:46] <ali1234> fun
[17:48] <ali1234> i found where they've been hding the "good" themes for gtk3: http://www.jpfleury.net/en/software/clearwaita.php
[17:48] <popey> seems it overheats
[17:48] <popey> http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5900
[17:49] <ali1234> why am i not surprised?
[17:50] <ali1234> blaming PSU lol
[17:51] <popey> leave it a moment it now boots
[17:51] <popey> and the boxee remote works, yay
[17:52] <ali1234> wow the cluelessness in that thread is amazing
[17:52] <ali1234> blame the PSU, overclocking, SD card... anything but the beloved raspi!
[17:52] <popey> lol the debian image has big buck bunny on it
[17:53] <popey> "test.h264"
[17:53] <ali1234> yeah it's the only piece of copyleft h264 that exists
[17:54] <popey> ☺
[17:54] <popey> we all got sick of the sight of it when testing ubuntu tv
[17:56] <simondbull> popey: I may have jumped on the bandwagon, and placed your beach ball image on some backgrounds
[17:56] <simondbull> https://plus.google.com/photos/118208921696356153553/albums/5743606583534121649
[17:58] <popey> lovely
[18:01] <simondbull> apologies if it did cause any offence, though
[18:01] <popey> nah
[18:02] <simondbull> thanks :)
[18:02] <popey> nobody has photoshopped me into the nuremburg rally yet
[18:02] <bigcalm> Oh my
[18:02] <simondbull> oh my indeed!
[18:03] <ali1234> that sounds like a job for someone who loves controversy
[18:07] <popey> heh, the .bash_history on a debian image someone else created is chuckleworthy
[18:07] <popey> (specifically the rpi image whch has xbmc on it)
[18:08] <MartijnVdS> popey: this is why I intend to create a bare Debian install for myself
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> popey: with debootstrap
[18:11] <popey> the xbmc startup script has this as the last line...
[18:11] <popey> "sudo ./xbmc.bin"
[18:11] <popey> le sigh
[18:11] <ali1234> nice
[18:11] <ali1234> course the very fact the file even exists is a huge wtf
[18:12] <popey> the image is just debian with xbmc in /opt
[18:12] <popey> that seems to be _it_
[18:12] <ali1234> remember a couple of years ago when it was all the rage to install ubuntu, make a few tweaks, and then tarball the / and call it a respin?
[18:12] <popey> heh
[18:12] <popey> people still seem to do that
[18:12] <popey> ultimate edition anyone?
[18:13] <ali1234> not so much
[18:13] <popey> maybe
[18:13] <MartijnVdS> Automatix!
[18:13] <ali1234> it's pretty much died off since anyone who wants to tweak stuff basically cannot anymore due to unity
[18:13] <popey> mint/zorinos manage it
[18:14] <ali1234> that reminds me, what the best way to kill overlay scrollbars?
[18:14] <popey> remove the package
[18:14] <ali1234> the askubuntu page is very out of date
[18:14] <gord> why would you need sudo to start xbmc?
[18:14] <popey> overlay-scrollbar
[18:14] <popey> indeed gord
[18:14] <popey> welcome to my world
[18:14] <ali1234> gord: probably because of the messed up driver architecture on raspi requiring root for opengl support
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> likely
[18:14] <popey> it doesn't need root, i am running it now without root
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> popey: submit a bug
[18:15] <ali1234> it might not need root *now*
[18:15] <popey> que?
[18:15] <popey> its an image
[18:15] <ali1234> it might have done when they were testing it
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> popey: maybe it works with fewer features?
[18:15] <popey> this is the same stuff they would have been testing
[18:15] <ali1234> oh wait i thought you were still talking about the .bashrc
[18:15] <popey> no
[18:15] <gord> nothing in xbmc requires root
[18:16] <popey> haha, the big buck bunny video is in /root
[18:16] <popey> so that xbmc can find it
[18:16] <gord> unless maybe you screwed up your permissions and you need root acess to install plugins or whatever
[18:16] <gord> i saw big buck bunny in 3d on my 3ds today :) nintendo paid for another company to convert it to 3d
[18:18] <ali1234> yeah...removing overlay-scrollbar didn't actually remove the overlay scrollbar
[18:18] <ali1234> maybe i need to fully reboot
[18:24] <ali1234> nope
[18:28] <AlanBell> remove libappmenu.so
[18:29] <AlanBell> or the package that puts it there
[18:29] <AlanBell> I moved mine out of the way whilst playing with weston
[18:29] <ali1234> http://www.tuxgarage.com/2012/05/disable-overlay-scrollbars-in-precise.html
[18:29] <ali1234> ^ that actually works
[18:30] <AlanBell> oh, hang on, I just told you how to remove global menus
[18:30] <ali1234> global menus don't work in fallback session anyway
[18:30] <AlanBell> or wayland
[18:30] <ali1234> though there is a panel widget you can get that is supposed to do it
[18:30] <ali1234> i need to try that
[18:30] <AlanBell> I dunno why the canonical stuff doesn't work
[18:31] <ali1234> i do but this is a family friendly channel
[18:31] <AlanBell> seeing as they want to go to wayland, it would seem sensible to avoid doing stuff that won't work with it
[18:31] <ali1234> since when have they ever done anything sensible?
[18:31] <ali1234> i think the last time was about 4 years ago
[18:32] <soreau> AlanBell: The DX team they have for unity isn't the greatest
[18:32] <davmor2> gord: I've seen all 3 bit to that on mine
[18:32] <ali1234> hey soreau
[18:32] <AlanBell> I am sure there is something sensible in unity
[18:32] <ali1234> i got compiz 0.8.8 working, sort of
[18:33] <AlanBell> lenses are sensible (except for the apps lens)
[18:33] <soreau> hi
[18:33] <ali1234> except that every time i start it the settings are "everything turned off"
[18:33] <ali1234> and i have to manually run gtk-decorator --replace
[18:34] <ali1234> and login sessions that are supposed to start compiz can't find it and so they start metacity instead
[18:34] <soreau> AlanBell: I'm hoping the wayland architecture will force them to take a step back and redesign many of the core concepts on which they rely
[18:34] <ali1234> but apart from that it works much better
[18:37] <soreau> ali1234: Did you install 0.8?
[18:38] <ali1234> yes
[18:38] <ali1234> after manually starting up all the bits and configuring/enabling all the plugins, it works really well
[18:38] <ali1234> much faster than the default version
[18:38] <ali1234> i mean like twice the framerate
[18:38] <soreau> ali1234: To auto-start compiz (hopefully you removed all the compiz 0.9/unity packages) you want to make a script called /usr/bin/compiz and in it, but compiz --replace ccp
[18:39] <soreau> ali1234: I told you it's faster :)
[18:39] <ali1234> also all the bugs with the panel went away
[18:39] <soreau> ali1234: anyway, make the script executable of course
[18:39] <ali1234> of course
[18:39] <ali1234> what about gtk-decorator etc?
[18:40] <soreau> ali1234: put gtk-window-decorator --replace in ccsm>window decoration>command field
[18:40] <ali1234> ah i see
[18:40] <ali1234> ok, gonna try it
[18:41] <diplo> evening all
[18:42] <ali1234> soreau: would it be possible to fork 0.8 just to rename it, so it can be installed easily beside 0.9?
[18:42] <ali1234> s/possible/easy/
[18:45] <soreau> ali1234: It would be more sensible to just create a proper ppa
[18:45] <ali1234> but if it has the same name you can't install it beside unity...
[18:45] <soreau> ali1234: Alternatively, you can install it into a nonstandard prefix such as /opt
[18:46] <soreau> ali1234: Why do you want to install it alongside unity? The two are incompatible
[18:46] <ali1234> so that i can easily demonstrate how much worse 0.9 is to everyone i ever meet
[18:47] <soreau> ali1234: You can install 0.8 to /opt and create scripts to run it
[18:47] <ali1234> that's too much hassle
[18:47] <ali1234> for normal people
[18:47]  * soreau has been meaning to make his 0.9 build script build 0.8 optionally
[18:47] <ali1234> it needs to be a PPA, and it needs to work side by side with unity
[18:48] <ali1234> now afaik the only way to make that possible is to rename eveything
[18:48] <soreau> but now I invest most of my efforts in wayland/weston
[18:49] <soreau> ali1234: You probably can even create packages that install to /opt
[18:50] <ali1234> right testing autostart
[18:53] <ali1234> soreau: all worked, thanks
[18:53] <ali1234> this is basically flawless now
[18:55] <yothsoggoth> does anyone know if there's something wrong with the Rhythmbox package for precise? I removed it and when I reinstalled the command "rhythmbox-client" is no longer found.
[18:58] <soreau> ali1234: Great, glad to hear it
[19:15] <ali1234> yothsoggoth: according to dpkg, /usr/bin/rhythmbox-client is part of rhythmbox package
[19:15] <ali1234> so it should work...
[19:16] <ali1234> i thought it might be in dependent package, but it's not... although maybe it's really missing something else
[19:16] <ali1234> so check if that file exists, if it does, run it with strace
[19:16] <ali1234> command not found can also indicate missing libraries (and it won't tell you)
[19:17] <ali1234> so also try ldd /usr/bin/rhythmbox-client
[19:19] <yothsoggoth> ali1234: I managed to fix it, seems I must have been missing a library, after purging and reinstalling it seems to be there
[20:03] <ali1234> so this finally happened: https://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:FB
[20:10] <bigcalm> Evening peeps :)
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: is it me or is it just going down?
[20:12] <ali1234> well t'sa bit early to say
[20:12] <ali1234> but yeah
[20:19] <oimon> anyone noticed this as an alternative low cost ARM PC? http://www.webupd8.org/2012/05/mk802-new-usb-thumb-drive-sized-android.html
[20:20]  * oimon has been faffing
[20:20] <ali1234> that's no more a PC than it is a phone or a tablet
[20:20] <oimon> around to sim unlock my phone from t-mobile tonight :-\
[20:21] <oimon> i didn't even realise phones were sim locked to networks anymore
[20:21] <ali1234> well... they are?
[20:21] <ali1234> typically there are multiple levels of security
[20:22] <oimon> yeah, so it appears when i tried to attach a giffgaff sim
[20:22] <ali1234> operator lock, firmware lock, application lock
[20:22] <ali1234> nearly all of them can be defeated with the right type of cable
[20:22] <oimon> why is mobile network a security move?
[20:23] <ali1234> because they can
[20:23] <oimon> for financial security
[20:23] <ali1234> right
[20:23] <ali1234> all of them are for financial security
[20:23] <ali1234> you think they care if you brick the phone? only if it costs them money
[20:23] <ali1234> you think they care if you install unsigned malware? etc
[20:23] <oimon> they don't care enough to keep me as customer though
[20:23] <ali1234> of course not
[20:24] <oimon> althogh they did call me 3 days after i requested PAC code with an improved offer
[20:24] <oimon> by then it was too late
[20:24] <ali1234> the only type of customer retention they understand is a 24 month contract and alocked handset
[20:24] <oimon> :(
[20:24] <oimon> sadly true
[20:25] <oimon> i will have the same issue with home adsl/phone provider soon
[20:25] <oimon> only way to get a decent price is to cancel
[20:26] <ali1234> they call it churn
[20:26] <ali1234> they know you'll go somewhere else after 2 years, and they know you'll be back after another 2 years
[20:27] <ali1234> you can buy hundreds of reports about who is churning in and out, sorted by demographic
[20:27] <ali1234> i've never seen one that measures the customers who stay
[20:37] <oimon> i had to tell t-mobile that even if the contract was even lower i couldn't choose it because the signal (in london) is lame and i can't use it where i need it
[20:37] <ali1234> i've never had any problems with t-mobile in london
[20:38] <ali1234> or any mobile network for that matter
[20:38] <ali1234> signal wise
[20:40] <ali1234> i wonder if screen recording works better with this old compiz
[20:40] <ali1234> kazam is pretty good now, with the monitor selection :)
[20:41] <ali1234> needs a nicer indicator icon though
[20:45] <oimon> i found a fantastic tool in windows that ubuntu needs, called psr
[20:45] <ali1234> google isn't helping, what is it?
[20:45] <oimon> it records all of your actions and screenshots and prepares a html page of everything you did,for support purposes
[20:46] <DJones> ali1234: problem step recorder
[20:46] <ali1234> interesting
[20:46] <oimon> it's fantastic
[20:47] <oimon> when installing software on windows server i click record before going through the install
[20:47] <oimon> for my colleagues and the wiki
[20:48] <ali1234> yep, screen recording with kazam works flawlessly with compiz 0.8 and nvidia driver
[20:48] <ali1234> no blank windows, huge shadows etc
[20:48] <ali1234> oimon: that does sound good
[20:49] <oimon> it would be ssuper useful when reporting bugs
[20:49] <ali1234> when i set up a linux server i just keep a copy of all the commands i type :)
[20:49] <oimon> because it records left-click , time stamps etc
[20:49] <ali1234> then if i ever need to do it again i already have a script i can just run
[20:51] <oimon> yeah
[20:52] <oimon> think of the application for recording actions for ubuntu bugs though
[20:52] <oimon> a lot of them are "i clicked here and here".
[20:52] <oimon> it records version numbers of software too
[20:52] <oimon> oops, bedtime...see you all
[21:16]  * Azelphur tries a dist-upgrade to 12.04
[21:16] <Azelphur> inb4 explosions \o/
[21:29] <ali1234> radio 4 repeating on the hour now
[21:29] <ali1234> radio 4 extra, whatever that means
[21:31] <ali1234> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/radio/bbc_radio_four_extra/listenlive
[23:08] <Azelphur> hmm, I'm doing the upgrade to 12.04, it says installing the upgrades
[23:08] <Azelphur> and in the terminal it just says "Extract templates from packages: 100%" | "Preconfiguring packages ..." | "Extract templates from packages: 100%" | "Preconfiguring packages ..."
[23:08] <ali1234> don't upgrade. don't you ever learn?
[23:08] <Azelphur> and it's been hanging there for about an hour now
[23:09] <Azelphur> ali1234: lol
[23:09] <ali1234> it's probably popped a debconf dialog somewhere where you can't see it
[23:09] <ali1234> i think i remember seeing a bug about that when looking for something else
[23:10]  * Azelphur plays hunt the debconf dialog
[23:10] <Azelphur> ali1234: yep, bastard of a thing :P