hanniehi thorwil I see your name on the mailing list, but not the authors list. You are not an author?14:40
thorwilhi hannie. no, not an author14:41
hannienor an editor?14:41
thorwilhannie: yes, not an editor either14:41
hannieok, just wanted to know14:42
c7phey all18:34
tomswartz07hi all18:52
c7pi think we didn't estimated the meeting time good enough18:53
tomswartz07there were a few that couldnt make it, i saw. haha18:54
tomswartz07its okay. any guess on how many we have?18:54
c7pjust before some mins the champions league final started18:54
c7phm idk18:54
c7pwho's here for the meeting ?18:55
herathi I am here.18:55
c7pgodbyk: ping !18:55
c7phello Tony18:55
thorwilo/, though all i have to say is that i intend to deliver an update of the titlepage. and maybe also of the project logo18:56
c7pthorwil:  good news !18:56
godbykHey, c7p.18:56
=== godbyk changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | Meeting agenda: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMP-12-04-4thMeeting | Oneiric edition released! | Style Guide: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf | Website: http://ubuntu-manual.org | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
tomswartz07we ready to roll on?19:03
godbykc7p: Are we expecting many more people at this meeting or is most everyone here?19:03
c7palmost everyone is here from what i see on doodle19:04
godbykOkay. Shall we get started then?19:04
c7pi think yes19:05
meetingologyMeeting started Sat May 19 19:05:13 2012 UTC.  The chair is godbyk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.19:05
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired19:05
godbyk#topic Roll call19:05
godbykThanks for coming everyone.19:05
godbykIf you're here for the meeting, please say 'hello' for our roll call.19:05
godbykThanks!  If anyone comes in late, meetingology should catch them.19:06
godbyk#topic Author updates and status reports19:06
godbykThe deadline for the first draft is May 31.19:07
c7phere you can see the status every single section http://bit.ly/I0SAXe19:07
godbykAll of the new content should be written and the screenshots should be in place by then.19:07
godbykTo the authors: Have you encountered any problems or do you have any questions so far?19:07
stillnotcool"Learning More" should be all set19:07
godbykDoes anyone think they won't be able to make the May 31 deadline?19:08
stillnotcoolObviously, this is not a mission-critical chapter :)19:08
stillnotcoolBut I do enjoy maintaining it19:08
tomswartz07None in my sections so far. Just need to do some finishing touches and screencaps19:08
heratNone in my section.19:08
godbykThat's quite comforting to hear! :-)19:09
c7pherat screens are pushed on the branch ?19:09
godbykThough, I suppose it's more likely that the authors I need to worry about are the ones who aren't at the meeting. ;-)19:09
c7py maybe :D19:09
stillnotcoolha! true19:09
heratc7p: Yes.19:09
godbykc7p: Were there some issues with the Troubleshooting chapter?19:09
c7pcool so is finished almost finished ?19:09
c7pyap will talk about it next19:10
heratc7p: Yes. It is finished. :)19:10
c7pfrom the desktop chapter i got almost no feedback from John19:11
c7pHannie must doing well19:11
c7pwhat concerns me most is the first part of that chapter that is very important and doesn't have an author19:12
c7phey sayantandas19:12
sayantandasfinally managed to login to irc!19:12
c7p:D glad to hear that19:12
tomswartz07c7p: which chapter is missing an author?19:12
c7pi 've sent a message to the list but nobody seemed interested19:13
c7por maybe John did but i got scarce feedback from him19:13
c7pwe'll need one or two to get assigned to it19:14
c7pi don't think many have to change there but that section has to be the most well-written19:14
c7pcause it's very critical in my opinion19:14
tomswartz07can we just flip an editor to review it?19:14
godbykc7p: I agree that that section is most critical to understanding how to use Unity/Ubuntu.19:15
c7ptomswartz07: maybe, that could help,19:15
c7pis anyone interested in helping with that section ?19:15
tomswartz07i figure, if there arent too many changes, it should be no issue for an 'editor' style review19:16
TonyPI will review it, if that would help19:16
c7pcool, thx TonyP19:16
TonyPJust point me at it19:16
c7pwe need an author too to write the HUD section19:17
sayantandasif any chapter requires input, i may be able to help..19:17
c7pand maybe the chapter has to be reorganized for a better understanding, i'm not sure about that though19:17
c7pgood to know19:17
sayantandasi have the sound menu for review; i have seen changes are quite little19:17
c7pthen the Additional software section19:19
c7pi have not feedback from its author19:19
c7pherat could you manage it ?19:19
godbykHello, che.19:19
=== che is now known as Guest67191
c7p*additional software section is in the Software management chapter19:20
Guest67191He guys, sorry I'm late, rushed off my feet here :)19:20
heratc7p: Yes, I could do that.19:20
c7phello Guest6719119:20
c7pherat: nice, thx19:20
c7phm, anything else to be said in this topic ?19:21
godbykc7p: Did we find authors for all the sections that need them?19:22
c7pAnthony will do the office suite and totem sections19:22
c7pand then troubleshooting chapter need author19:23
c7por authors19:23
c7ptomswartz07 and Kev Quirk are interested from what i remeber19:23
c7pif nobody appears for that chatper19:23
godbykc7p: Okay. Let's try to get that sorted out over the next couple days. If need be, we can put out another call for authors for those sections.19:23
tomswartz07sure, id be willing to work on it.19:23
c7pgodbyk: yea19:24
sayantandasi am ok to work for HUD + my existing sections19:24
godbyk#topic Troubleshooting chapter19:24
godbykc7p: Did we cover the troubleshooting chapter already?19:24
c7ptomswartz07: could you manage the a part of this section or make an outline for it ?19:25
c7pnope i don't think so19:25
tomswartz07surely. what do you need done?19:25
c7psayantandas: ok good :), we'll talk through mail about it19:25
c7p1st i think the chapter needs to be re-written in order to meet today needs19:26
c7pnot much have changed there since 10.0419:26
c7pat least that's my impression19:26
c7pso section have to be removed, others need update and others need to be added19:26
c7pwhat do you think ?19:27
tomswartz07sounds good. Ill work up a detailed outline for the new chapter19:27
c7pah good19:28
tomswartz07would GoogleDocs work for everyone, or should I use another service?19:28
godbyktomswartz07: Google Docs should work fine.19:28
c7pKev is also interested so if you need a second hand he should be able to help19:28
godbykHey, ChrisWoollard.19:28
c7phello Chris !: )19:28
ChrisWoollardSorry I am late. Was putting kids to bed19:28
godbykChrisWoollard: Excuses, excuses!19:29
Guest67191Hi Chris19:29
ChrisWoollardAt least i remembered this time19:29
c7paren't you watching Chelsea ? :P19:29
ChrisWoollardHi Guest6719119:29
ChrisWoollardNo. Couldn't care less about football19:29
c7pfair enough19:29
Guest67191brb guys, trying to sort out this name thing19:30
kereltisok, sorted19:30
godbykc7p: Did we get all the authors/chapters discussion sorted?  (That is, shall we move on to the next topic?)19:30
c7pok so tom will make an outline of the new chapter19:30
tomswartz07ill sort it and share with the mailing list19:31
c7pif tom hasn't to say anything else let's proceed19:31
c7p:) nice19:31
godbyk#topic VirtualBox as a tool for authors and editors19:31
godbyktomswartz07: Did you want to lead this part of the discussion?19:31
tomswartz07ive found that, while working on the manual sections, VirtualBox makes it easier to manage your systems19:32
tomswartz07i feel it would be best to give an example.19:32
tomswartz07In the Instant Messaging section, there is a section on the 'First Run' dialog, and how you may set up your accounts.19:33
tomswartz07unfortunately, its difficult to pull up the first run, well.. after your first run.19:33
tomswartz07If you use Virtualbox, you can run a fresh, clean install of Ubuntu, avoiding issues from your own personal customizations19:34
c7phm, that would be highly beneficial especially if we use it for the 12.10,19:35
tomswartz07I feel that this would be most helpful for the sections that deal with the desktop and UI elements, as having screenshots with various backgrounds, fonts, etc may confuse19:35
tomswartz07the main feature about Virtualbox is that you can take a "Snapshot" that saves the exact machine state.19:36
kereltisI agree, I use vbox all the time for testing distros and it's very easy to setup and use19:36
tomswartz07so, if you need to redo a 'first-run' menu many times, you just reload that snapshot19:36
tomswartz07kereltis: right! its very easy to set up- it installs a basic Ubuntu (or any OS) as a file on your drive, and you run it as a program19:37
godbyktomswartz07: If people are interested in using VirtualBox with the Ubuntu Manual project, it might be useful to have some step-by-step instructions on how to set it up for that use. We could put the instructions on the mailing list and in the style guide.19:38
c7pgood idea19:38
kereltisgood idea19:38
c7pafter some releases this guide will be a manual to make a manual :P19:39
tomswartz07very meta19:39
godbykc7p: That's the goal. I'm trying to dump all of our how-to's and instructions in there.19:39
tomswartz07i guess the idea is, if we all die in a plane crash, everyone will know how to redo the manual19:40
c7pbtw Kevin, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual works ?19:40
TonyPWe will need to have a list of standard login id, machine name, etc19:40
godbykc7p: Yes, though it's likely woefully out of date.19:40
c7pyes i see it19:41
thorwildoes virtualbox support some kind of automation?19:41
tomswartz07thorwil: what do you mean?19:41
thorwiltomswartz07: automating "user" actions19:42
tomswartz07no, unfortunately.19:42
tomswartz07Virtualbox is made to allow you to run different operating systems at once on the same machine19:42
tomswartz07similar to Parallels for Mac, i guess.19:43
thorwilbeing able to write a script that walks through all required states and does screenshots would have been to awesome19:43
godbykthorwil: Agreed. That would've been awesome.19:43
godbykIf VirtualBox could've been giving a list of keystrokes and mouse clicks to perform.19:43
c7phas anyone checked it http://shutter-project.org/ ?19:44
tomswartz07Now, VB can take a screenshot of the system that will work for our manual, provided you set the VB resolution to the proper settings.19:44
c7pthat sounds interesting tom19:44
heratc7p: tried that but did not work perfectly for me.19:45
tomswartz07c7p: right?19:45
tomswartz07Because the entire OS from virtualbox runs in a program window, you can resize the 'display' to the appropriate setting and snap the screenshots19:46
godbykc7p: Shutter looks nice and appears to have a plugin system. I wonder if the functionality of Quickshot could be incorporated into a Shutter plugin.19:47
c7pi ll take a look on it in summer when i'll have more free time19:48
godbyk#topic UDS meeting report19:48
c7p*i'll look at it19:48
godbykHannie and I attended the Ubuntu Manual UDS session via IRC.19:49
godbykI'm not sure who else was listening in at the time on IRC.19:49
kereltisI missed it19:49
c7pme too :(19:49
ChrisWoollardmissed uds completely19:49
godbykWe discussed a bit about the history of the project and a bit about where we wanted to go with it.19:49
kereltiswas hoping it would appear on youtube19:49
godbykpopey posted an email to his LUG and a blog entry asking his readers why they weren't contributing to the manual. You can read their responses:19:50
godbykJust a sec and I'll find the link to the IRC channel logs.19:51
TonyPWell, I responded to popey's email19:52
kereltiswe ask Jono to include a trophy in his ubuntu trophy project, might help with awarness19:52
godbykHere are the pad notes from the session: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-q/meeting/20570/desktop-q-ubuntu-manual/19:52
c7pKevin i think Latex terrifies everyone who checks out getting involved pages !19:53
stillnotcoolc7p: +119:53
kereltisc7p that's a good point19:54
godbykIRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/09/%23ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-h.html19:54
c7p+3 so :P19:54
stillnotcoolI have been contributing to the manual since the first edition, and I have never once installed or run Latex19:54
godbykThe IRC logs consist primarily of me responding to questions and discussion from the people at the UDS session.19:54
godbyk(So it'll read as being quite one-sided.)19:54
thorwilwhat's the alternative? docbook isn't necessarily more accessible. the manual written in LO Writer isn't gonna happen19:55
godbykIs it LaTeX itself that's intimidating or the installation process?19:55
c7pwe can still use Latex19:55
c7pbut the authors should have the option either to use it or not19:55
godbykWe have in the past allowed authors to submit their work in others formats.19:56
godbykThen we have editors manage the LaTeX markup.19:56
stillnotcoolgodbyk: Yes, and I think that went a long way toward encouraging more participation19:56
godbykI'm okay with that as long as the editors as willing to do it.19:56
godbykFrom the discussions I've had, it seems that people have been more put off by the installation process of upstream TeX Live than in using LaTeX itself.19:57
godbykDo you guys agree or disagree?19:57
tomswartz07half and half.19:57
TonyPNo probs for me even though I have not used LaTeX, but the install was hairy19:58
godbykUnfortunately, I think that the Debian folks are still rejiggering their texlive packages. (They're completely overhauling the way they're organized.)19:58
stillnotcoolgodbyk: Agree.  The installation process involves using the command line19:58
tomswartz07i think that many are put off by the massive install base that TeX takes, and the other half assume that you need to be a code monkey to do anything19:58
ChrisWoollardI can imagine people just want a ubuntu package.19:58
kereltisI'd still prefer to use Libreoffice though19:58
sayantandasthere is a gui version of latex, and also libreoffice extension.. can we not use either of them?19:58
godbyksayantandas: Well, there are LaTeX editors (basically IDEs for LaTeX) and you're welcome to use those.19:59
c7pgodbyk: can't we generate a file with the proper options that will be used from installer ?19:59
godbyksayantandas: I don't think that the LibreOffice extensions will work with our manual, however.19:59
godbykc7p: I'm not sure. I'll look into it, though.19:59
stillnotcoolI'm wondering if authors need to install or use LaTeX at all.  If not, then we might be able to remove all the LaTeX stuff from the "getting involved" instructions19:59
godbykIdeally, I'd love for our authors and editors to be able to do all of the work via a web editor (similar to a wiki but a bit more structured). But we need to do some design work and a lot of coding before that can happen.20:00
stillnotcoolthis might eliminate a critical barrier to entry, allowing folks new to the project (or thinking about getting involved with it) a simple way to do so: Contrat the group, find an editor who needs a writer for a section, and get cracking.20:00
godbykstillnotcool: That's something we can do now. Authors can submit their writings to an editor as long as the editor is willing to convert it to LaTeX for them.20:01
stillnotcoolRight.  And it's worked well in recent editions.20:02
c7pcan we use docbook to generate latex code ?20:02
godbykc7p: Yes. Though there will always have to be some fine-tuning of the output.20:02
godbykc7p: I think that the docbook markup is at least as scary as the LaTeX markup, though.20:03
ChrisWoollardi agree20:03
stillnotcoolgodbyk: I agree. What I'm thinking about might indicate a larger shift in the way we conceptualize the role of author and editor, the division of labor between the two20:04
tomswartz07stillnotcool: +120:04
godbykI completely agree that we should simplify the workflow for authors and editors.20:05
stillnotcoolThe instructions we feature on our home page seem to imply that writers -- in order to write and contribute -- need complex installations of software not already on their machiens, and not even available in the official repositories20:05
godbykAnd it'd be nice if they didn't have to know anything about LaTeX.20:05
godbykI think that having a web-based editing system would fix those issues for us, and that we should work on creating one.20:05
godbyk(Though it obviously won't happen in time for 12.04, it'd be nice if it could be in place for 12.10 or at least 13.04.)20:06
TonyPBut do they still need to use bzr?20:06
stillnotcoolTonyP: Ideally, authors would be in charge of writing.  Anything else is icing, gravy.20:06
TonyPThat's just as scary20:06
stillnotcoolHere's what Hannie and I do for Chapter 8:20:06
stillnotcoolHannie pulls the most recent copy of the chapter from bzr when it's time to work20:07
stillnotcoolHe shares that on Google Docs, where we both collaborate (I do the writing, he edits as I go).20:07
stillnotcoolWHen I sign off on it, he gives it a final edit, asks any remaining questions, then tightens the markeup and pushes the revision20:07
stillnotcoolThis is a special case, I suppose, because we don't have screenshots20:08
stillnotcoolHe and I both agreed to use GDocs because we're comfortable with it, and it mae collaborating easier.20:08
stillnotcoolWriter/editor pairs could choose another tool if one works better.20:08
tomswartz07Thats a very great idea20:08
stillnotcoolBut this has worked well for us, and allowed me to do what I enjoy most: writing.20:09
godbykAnother route that some authors/editors have taken is to just drop .ods files into an Ubuntu One shared folder.20:09
stillnotcoolgodbyk: I like that, too.20:09
c7psounds good20:09
ChrisWoollardMaybe it is just a case of making sure people know that they can write anyway that suits them20:09
tomswartz07or Dropbox, if you prefer cross platform for us Arch users :)20:09
godbykWhat I have envisioned is that we'd have a website that works similar to a wiki. Though instead of using wiki markup, we'd have a WYSIWYG editor.20:10
godbykAuthors would write content.20:10
stillnotcoolWe might advertise author jobs as writing jobs, and editor jobs as technical positions -- the work not only of editing prose, but marking up copy and taking screenshots (doing more technical work)20:10
godbykOnce authors have written content, the editors are notified and can come along and tweak things.20:10
godbykOnce the editors have finished with it, the translators are notified and can translate that section.20:10
godbykAll of that would happen on the website. There'd be no LaTeX or bzr visible.20:10
stillnotcoolgodbyk: Right.20:11
godbykIn addition, when something that's been translated is edited/modified, the translated can see what's actually changed.20:11
godbykSo if, say, a comma were added, the translated could see that only a comma has been added and that they don't need to retranslate the entire paragraph.20:11
godbykI think that would go a long way toward helping our translators.20:12
godbykThey could start work a lot earlier in the process and keep up more easily.20:12
stillnotcoolgodbyk: Well put20:12
godbykOnce everything has been written an edited, we'd generate the LaTeX code, make any tweaks there that we wanted to make and have our PDFs ready to go.20:12
herathttp://www.scribtex.com/ Has anyone tried it? It has all the features we need.20:12
godbykAt the same time, we'd generate ePUB and other formats.20:12
stillnotcoolherat: Yes! But costly.20:13
heratstillnotcool: Oh. Did not see that.20:13
godbykherat: I haven't tried it yet. Though we'd need to be able to use our own document class ("template").20:13
godbykAnd it looks like it's $10/month.20:13
godbykAnyway, that's some of what I have envisioned for our website and process in the future. To make that happen, we'd need to design the site in more detail and find some web developers to create it for us.20:14
c7pwe also need to talk about the project to the outside world20:15
stillnotcoolherat: I won't presume to argue for what's best with regard to our implementation/use of LaTeX.  godbyk is the expert there, and knowsmore about what we need/want than I do.  I'll just say that from a writer's perspective the current instructions are a little intimidating, and I think it behooves us in the near future to reconsider our writer/editor workflow to better accommodate newer contributors.20:15
godbykThis website would also allow for drive-by editing. Anyone can come along and fix bugs.20:15
stillnotcoolgodbyk: I like it.20:15
godbykIf they're anonymous edits, they'd need to be approved by a registered editor first.20:15
tomswartz07I think what we need is a person to basically hit up all of the Linux news outlets and cheerlead our project. if we could get more users, we could get much more varied skills and more breathing room to work20:16
ChrisWoollardmaybe worth testing at least20:16
godbykChrisWoollard: What's worth testing?20:16
godbykChrisWoollard: Ah, gotcha.20:16
godbykI'll poke around it a bit and see how it looks.20:17
ChrisWoollardclick trial. it takes you to a demo site20:17
stillnotcoolI like how the basic/free version is limited to "one bollaborator."  I'm unsure what that actually looks like!20:17
godbykAnother topic that was raised during the UDS session:20:18
godbyk#topic Collaboration with the docs team20:18
godbykThe question of why we're not collaborating with the docs team is raised periodically.20:18
godbykAside from some initial strife between Ben and the docs team when the project first started,20:19
godbykI think the real reason for lack of collaboration is that no one from either team has really taken up the issue.20:19
stillnotcoolgodbyk: Right, a schism I never really understood, to be honest.20:19
ChrisWoollardAre they still using another system. I forgot which one20:19
c7pgodbyk: i agree20:19
godbykMy question is: In what ways would  teams benefit from collaboration? How can we collaborate?20:19
godbykChrisWoollard: I think they're using docbook/mallard markup.20:20
ChrisWoollardAhhh. Mallard. That's what I was thinking of20:20
stillnotcoolI think the docs team likely has a better sense of what's most useful to the uninitiated.20:20
godbykQuestions: How could the docs team help the manual project?   How could we help the docs team?20:21
stillnotcoolThe docs team must document _everything_ in Ubuntu, but it's likely they have some kind of data regarding which documentation is accessed most frequently by new users.20:21
stillnotcoolUnderstanding these patterns might help us target our manual and ensure that our chapters cover relevant material20:21
c7pi don't know how we can help each other, maybe we can have a poll of content were anyone of both project can have direct access to the work of the other20:22
stillnotcoolAnd because we are trying to remain sensitive to the needs of new/inexperienced users, we might offer them this perspective on relevant sections of the official documentation, which could benefit from what we've already done20:22
godbykI'll ask a stupid question while I'm at it (admitting my own ignorance): What does the docs team do?20:23
godbykFrom what I gather, they maintain the official Ubuntu help files.20:23
stillnotcoolmy understanding is that the team maintains the documentation at help.ubuntu.com20:24
c7pi think that's what they do20:24
ChrisWoollardIt would be nice to hear from them occasionally20:24
TonyPSo they are the help team20:24
stillnotcoolMy sense is that we're all working with the same mission, though our foci are different20:24
stillnotcoolwe are writing material specifically targetted at new users20:25
kereltisTrue but I see the two projects as aiming at different people, they cover everything in great detail which can turn into geek speech, good stuff but can be intimidating if your new to computers. We on the other hand target the people that are brand new and just want the basics to get them started in basic language they can easily follow.20:25
stillnotcoolwhat we do seems to me a subset of the overal project of documenting Ubuntu20:25
stillnotcoolkereltis: Yes.20:25
stillnotcoolSo, try this:20:26
stillnotcoolvisit the home page for 12.04 documentation20:26
TonyPor https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam20:26
stillnotcoolOn that page, you'll see a few different types of documentaiton20:26
stillnotcoolA desktop guide20:26
stillnotcoolA server guide20:26
stillnotcooland an installation guide20:26
stillnotcoolour manual could be the first link: 1. "Getting Started Guide"20:27
godbykOne difference between their desktop guide <https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/ubuntu-help/index.html> and our manual is that we can't easily redirect the user to read, say, the Empathy help pages for more information. We try to include the most common and useful information directly in our manual.20:27
stillnotcoolgodbyk: Right, and we rightly shouldn't.20:28
godbykIn other words, our manual needs to be fairly self-contained instead of merely pointing to other documentation.20:28
stillnotcoolOur manual assists new folks with the task of navigating a stock installation.20:28
godbykI'm just poking around their desktop guide, so this may not be representative.20:28
godbykIt appears that their style is very oriented on the how-to.20:29
godbykExample: “To let other users use your computer, you can either log out, or leave yourself logged in and just switch users. If you switch users, all of your applications will continue running, and everything will be where you left it when you log back in.”20:29
stillnotcoolWhen they're ready to graduate from "Getting Started," they head to the "Desktop Guide," which could actually be renamed to something like "Complete Documentation" or "Advance Documentation"20:29
godbykMost of their paragraphs begin with, “To do x, ...”20:29
godbykWhereas we should be providing a bit more background/discussion instead of just a sequence of steps to follow.20:29
stillnotcoolgodbyk: +120:30
godbykHaving said that, I do think it'd be useful if we explored the topics that they're covering in the desktop and installation guides to see if there's anything that we're missing.20:31
godbyk(Or conversely, anything that they're missing that we think they should add.)20:31
stillnotcoolgodbyk: Agreed.20:31
c7pme too20:31
godbykWould anyone here be interested in taking up that task?20:31
godbykThat is, doing a comparison between their desktop and installation guides and our manual?20:31
stillnotcoolgodbyk: Would it be something each author could do for his or her individual chapter?  Perhaps editors could peruse the documentation for their subjects and suggest to authors changes or additions.20:32
godbykstillnotcool: Possibly, though the info might be scattered around quite a bit.20:32
godbykTell you what, I'll take on that task.20:33
godbykI'll have a look at their guides and see what they cover and what we cover, figure out the overlap and things that each group has missed.20:33
c7pguys i got to go20:33
stillnotcoolgodbyk: That's generous.  Thanks for doing it.20:33
godbykOkay, see you later, c7p.20:34
kereltiscya c7p20:34
c7pi think this was one of the best meetings !20:34
c7psee you all20:34
stillnotcoolbye c7p20:34
c7pthanks for being here20:34
kereltissame, we got a lot discussed20:34
godbykOkay, I think we have just a couple more topics and then we'll be finished.20:35
godbyk#topic Screenshot editors20:35
godbykWe've discussed this previously a bit.20:35
godbykI think that it'd work best if the authors took the initial screenshots (so they can show us what they want), and then we should have one or two screenshot editors who come along afterward and take all the "official" screenshots.20:36
godbykI think having a couple people taking all the screenshots will help ensure consistency.20:36
kereltisagreed, it would cut down on problems20:36
godbykWhat do you guys think?20:36
TonyPGood idea20:37
stillnotcoolgodbyk: Sounds easy enough.  Writers could just use the built-in screenshot software to give editors the gist.20:37
godbykWould anyone here like to volunteer to be a screenshot editor?20:37
godbykIf not, I'll send an email to the list and ask for volunteers.20:38
godbykOkay, I'll email the list.20:38
kereltisWe'll need someone who knows LateX I presume20:38
godbykkereltis: Nope. Just someone who's detail-oriented and can take screenshot with the proper resolution and whatnot.20:39
godbyk#topic Call for editors20:40
godbykHannie sent an email to the list earlier this week to get volunteers to be editors.20:40
godbykI don't think she got much of a response.20:40
TonyPJust me and someone else20:40
kereltisWe could ask omgubuntu and iHeartubuntu to give us a mention and ask for editors20:40
godbykShe's going to email the editors we have and some of the editors we've had in the past to see if they're still interested in helping.20:40
godbykHaving said that, I think that we'll still need more editors.20:41
godbykI'll write up a call for editors that we can send out to website.20:41
godbykWhat website would you suggest I send it to?20:41
tomswartz07kereltis: +120:42
stillnotcoolthink that's our best bet20:42
godbykI'll have someone post it to Planet Ubuntu as well.20:42
TonyPSomething in the Ubuntu weekly news?20:43
stillnotcoolwe might make the call more specific ... assess our needs as say "we need editors with knowledge of x, y, and z"20:43
stillnotcoolTonyP: +120:43
godbykTonyP: Good idea. I'll ask pleia2 about that.20:43
kereltisyep, maybe http://benjaminkerensa.com/ as well20:43
godbyk#topic Any other business20:44
godbykI think we've touched on everything that was on the agenda.20:44
stillnotcoolNice work godbyk. Thanks for chairing and leading.20:45
godbykJust a reminder that the upcoming deadline of 31 May is when authors need to have finished their writing and draft screenshots.20:45
godbykDoes anyone have any other business they'd like to discuss?20:45
godbykOr any questions?20:45
stillnotcoolAll set :)20:46
godbykAll right. Since there is no other business, we're adjourned.20:46
godbykThanks for coming, everyone!20:46
meetingologyMeeting ended Sat May 19 20:46:46 2012 UTC.20:46
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-05-19-19.05.moin.txt20:46
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-manual/2012/ubuntu-manual.2012-05-19-19.05.html20:46
kereltisI've checked my chapter and it can be tranfer straight over from 11.10 instead of converting it again, just needs to looked over by an editor20:46
kereltisThanks guys!20:47
godbykkereltis: Good to hear -- thanks!20:47
stillnotcoolSo long, friends!20:47
godbykI'll post the meeting minutes to the mailing list later today.20:47
godbykSee you later, stillnotcool. Thanks for coming!20:47
* stillnotcool waves20:47
kereltisSee you all, have a great weekend!20:48
tomswartz07later folks!20:48
pleia2godbyk: if you post it to planet I'll make sure we include your post in UWN23:53

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