[01:45] <astraljava> Len-nb: I believe he still reads his email, but yeah most likely he's on here as well, when he's online and capable of reading the mail.
[02:55] <Len-nb> astraljava, He asked me to do a blueprint for tweaks... not sure if I am going in the right direction.
[02:55] <Len-nb> In sent him a copy as I think it is due monday?
[02:55] <Len-nb> Maybe we missed.
[02:56] <Len-nb> He said something about his laptop not working anymore
[03:24] <len-dt> ailo, astraljava there is a new qjackctl 0.3.9 I wonder if  that will make it to ubuntu repos for 12.10
[03:25] <ailo> len-dt: It should. Usually, the very latest Debian packages do
[03:25] <len-dt> The fixes talk about dbus issues.
[03:26] <len-dt> I hope that fixes the unable to stop problem.
[03:26] <ailo> Would be good to backport it to the LTS, if possible
[03:26] <ailo> That's about the only thing that bothers me right now
[03:27] <ailo> I've so far ignored the blueprints conciously, but I guess it's time to get my head around that
[03:28] <len-dt> Do you want a copy of what I did?
[03:28] <ailo> len-dt: Sure
[03:28] <len-dt> where?
[03:28] <ailo> You can email me if you want ailomaa@warpmail.net
[03:30] <len-dt> Should be there. It says Scott as I just re-edited the one I sent him.
[03:31] <ailo> len-dt: Looks good to me. About what I had in mind when I thought about those things
[03:33] <len-dt> ailo, this is a long weekend here, is it in the US too? or do you know? Does Scott have to put it in place or can we do that?
[03:33] <len-dt> It has to be approved by someone at ubuntu I guess
[03:33] <len-dt> Scott told me who but I forget.
[03:33] <ailo> len-dt: Any thoughts on the settings application? Language, design? I would love to do a remake of ubuntustudio-controls. I don't know about US. We already had some days off before the weekend in Sweden
[03:34] <ailo> len-dt: Kate Stewart at Ubuntu
[03:34] <len-dt> For me, tcltk is what I know. I have already started working in that.
[03:35] <micahg> ailo: +1 on qjackctl backport to precise, just use requestbackport from ubuntu-dev-tools to request it once it's in quantal
[03:36] <ailo> micahg: Will do
[03:38] <ailo> len-dt: I've already had one pass working with Python and GTK, but it would need to be planned well
[03:38] <ailo> astraljava: How are your codings skills? Python? GKT?
[03:38] <len-dt> ailo, the workflow thing and the config thing can be separate anyway.
[03:39] <ailo> I think they should, even
[03:39] <ailo> len-dt: Since you know tcl/tk, you'd probably have fun with puredata
[03:39] <len-dt> Workflow runs all the time and should be small for that reason. The config even for it shold be separated.
[03:40] <len-dt> For me the thing is having a use for PD.
[03:43] <ailo> Takes a little while getting used to, but once you do, you master it in notime
[03:44] <len-dt> I am doing mostly live music on a bass... so I am mic oriented.
[03:44] <len-dt> ailo, I figured that.
[03:44] <ailo> It's perfect for making ridiculous effects
[03:45] <len-dt> ailo,  I am going to do make a wrapper for telinit for setting RL 3 to 5
[03:46] <len-dt> I figured that out listening to some of the things you are doing with it
[03:46] <len-dt> I have put some flanging on the bass, but mostly run it dry. It gets muddy real quick on the low end with effects.
[03:48] <ailo> len-dt: Yeah, filtering is probably a good idea, and making sure those effects that make the low end muddy, only mix with the high end
[03:49] <len-dt> ailo, It is real easy to get into audio changes, but there are some things that work for audio that could be a real pain for graphics.
[03:49] <len-dt> My flanger just does the high end... made for bass box.
[03:49] <ailo> len-dt: I just looked up the release schedule for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
[03:50] <ailo> If I understand correctly, blueprints should be done by 31st?
[03:51] <ailo> And Debian packages are imported until June 21th 
[03:51] <len-dt> That is what it looks like, but I think they have to be "vetted" before then.
[03:52] <ailo> I suppose any applications should be done by August 23rd (all though, I've gotten the picture that isn't a 100% must)
[03:53] <ailo> 3 months to finish the settings application, in other words
[03:53] <len-dt> So Scott has to OK and then Kate Stewart? So we have to have them finished before then so we have time to make changes before may31st
[03:53] <ailo> len-dt: I don't know what the deal is between them
[03:54] <ailo> len-dt: I'm pretty positive I could do a new version of ubuntustudio-controls in 3 months time
[03:54] <len-dt> ailo, for a wrapper for telinit, could I safely do that with a script?
[03:54] <ailo> Adding whatever settings you would like
[03:55] <ailo> The last version of -controls I did used scripts quite extensively, because that was the only way I knew how to do things in gksudo mode
[03:55] <ailo> So, that will work, no problem
[03:56] <ailo> I can always rewrite it in python also, if possible
[03:56] <len-dt> Ok, I will do a bash script then. I would like to stay away from having to have a source package...
[03:57] <ailo> I guess we should not think too much about implementation, until we know what we want to implement in the first place
[03:57] <ailo> Just use scripts, or do things manually (document it)
[03:57] <len-dt> I need it for my own system. So I will make it for that much at least.
[03:59] <len-dt> ailo, I have found that the PA-jackd bridge is a lot less of a problem when I take care of everything else. I will probably still disable it on my system when doing lowlatency though.
[04:02] <ailo> len-dt: Maybe you could put in the blueprints that a new version of ubuntustudio-controls will be the settings application then?
[04:02] <len-dt> for my system, I would be fine just using telinit with pkexec, but the wrapper makes things look a little more secure.... and really I don't want complaints of a lost session setup because someone accidentally switched themselves to RL1
[04:03] <ailo> It will depend on having any settings to make, so if we don't want to tweak anything, we won't need the -controls application
[04:04] <len-dt> For audio swappiness is needed for sure. Still graphics people may be less happy with it set to 0.
[04:05] <len-dt> ailo, we are trying to have a multiuse system, we have to think about all the uses.
[04:06] <len-dt> That is why being able to switch between a few presets is important to me.
[04:06] <ailo> len-dt: I have a hard time thinking that far ahead right now, since I don't really know what the things you are suggesting will actually change. But, once we can test it, and document that effects, we can decide whether it is worth while, or if it should be tweakable. And when we implement it to the application, we make sure the user understands exactly what happens
[04:07] <len-dt> But those presets have to be user configurable. So the controls app will need to be able to do more than one set of settings.
[04:07] <len-dt> Ya, that is true too.
[04:08] <len-dt> ailo, have you played with swappiness at all?
[04:08] <ailo> Nope
[04:08] <ailo> But I will gladly test everything a bit further ahead. And help putting things down on the wiki
[04:09] <ailo> I would like to set up all my machines for testing. Been having some issues with my routers. I'd like to be able to control them all from one client
[04:09] <len-dt> I have it set to 60 (stock) on one machine and 10 on the other. The one with 10 is the slower machine, but runs better.
[04:10] <len-dt> Sounds like fun. I used to use a control panel on an NT box to control stuff on a DEC box.
[04:11] <len-dt> Very ugly, the NT box would FTP a zero length file to the dec where the filename was the command.
[04:11] <ailo> The older machines are so noisy too, and it's such a hassle operating all of them, one by one. Better to just shove them in a basement room, and connect them to the network
[04:13] <ailo> I was able to get network installation going for those machines that do not support usb stick installation, but alas, one of them didn't have netork device that supported it (but there's another method, using a CD to boot, and then the usb stick)
[04:13] <ailo> I'd like to never have to use a CD again, if possible
[04:13] <ailo> There's also the possibility to install from hard disk
[04:13] <len-dt> You could use a floppy ;-)
[04:14] <ailo> Yeah. I have a couple of drives, and probably some floppys laying around. That would be nostalgic indeed
[04:14] <len-dt> To install for the hard drive there has to be a working system on it
[04:14] <len-dt> s/for/from
[04:15] <ailo> Well, there's always some CD with grub on it I could use
[04:15] <len-dt> The problem with floppies is that once they get to be old they read ok, but often don't write to well.
[04:15] <ailo> Or, you make the partition bootable, but only for installation
[04:16] <len-dt> I was thinking about a fresh drive.
[04:17] <ailo> I just need an easy way to get the installation medium to boot. The network booting was really nice, but again, one machine is special
[04:17] <ailo> Time to eat. Went running earlier. Need some kalories
[04:19] <len-dt> bye.
[05:37] <len-dt> ailo, when ever you read it... the wrapper for telinit works.
[10:37] <astraljava> ailo: I've been doing both at work. What do you have in mind?
[12:39] <ailo> astraljava: We might need a new ubuntustudio-controls written from scratch. I'm willing to code it, but maybe you would like to participate in that? 
[12:40] <ailo> len-dt is preparing a blueprint for testing system settings, of which some might be best placed as tweakable options in the -controls application
[12:41] <ailo> And there's been some ideas for it in the past, that could be added as well
[12:44] <astraljava> ailo: I would indeed.
[12:50] <ailo> astraljava: Let's see after the blueprints are done, if we can put together some kind of plan for it then. I think we need to set up some testing, and document it on the wiki first before we have a good idea of what we need/want to do
[12:51] <astraljava> ailo: Yeah, I've been meaning to get into the QA process development, for both Xubuntu and Studio. But the start of this cycle has been really hard thus far. Let's see if I can improve on that today.
[12:52] <astraljava> Testing automation could be implemented for that as well, so I'm going to see what is already available, and what needs to be created.
[12:58] <ailo> Think I'm going to get Harrison mixbus + linux dsp effects. Going to be mixing an album during the summer, and this will be the first time doing that with Linux. Feels like it might be worth it
[12:59] <ailo> I guess Ardour gets a piece of the pie, with Mixbus, since they are advertising for it on the home page
[12:59] <ailo> Will be interesting to see what mixbus will be like on A3
[13:00] <astraljava> Oh cool. I have so much to learn about that stuff. For many years I've been constructing the distro, but haven't actually used the stuff we provide at all. :)
[13:01] <ailo> Same here, really, when it comes to Linux. But that's mostly because I don't use that software at home so much. Only on other peoples computers, and they usually don't use Linux
[13:01] <astraljava> Yeah.
[13:01] <ailo> I've only done some small work here and there, and there are a lot of areas where you might quickly get issues with the Linux provided software
[13:02] <ailo> midi can be flakey for instance
[13:03] <ailo> Mixbus would probably make things a little less painful, and also, I've never actually paid for any audio software before. Feels different buying it for Linux 
[13:03] <ailo> Costs next to nothing too
[13:03] <astraljava> That's true. :) I have problems getting into it even on Macs. :)
[15:18] <len-dt> ailo, astraljava swappiness seems to make a big difference for audio.
[15:19] <len-dt> On the netbook, it is the difference between useable or not.
[15:20] <astraljava> len-dt: Good to know. Do you think you could document your findings somewhere, unless it can be already found?
[15:21] <len-dt> I would say set swappiness 0. But, I am wondering what that would do to performance for graphics work.
[15:21] <len-dt> That is does this need to be switchable.
[15:24] <len-dt> astraljava, there seems to be enough documentation that it helps audio. But I don't want it to be a problem for other uses.
[15:25] <len-dt> on the other hand, zram would be good for the normal desktop experience and may be really good for graphics but not for audio.
[15:39] <len-dt> Just started going through the messages on LAU mail list. There seems to be a number of people who feel jammin is dead or at least less than useful for mastering.
[15:43] <len-dt> In fact there are some people who feel it has "bad" audio artifacts even when the filtering  is set flat.
[15:45] <len-dt> Is there any way we can test this?
[16:04] <astraljava> I have no idea to be honest.
[16:09] <len-dt> Is there frequency analizer SW for linux?
[16:12] <len-dt> astraljava, This is remembering That the person doing mastering should probably not be the same person/room/sound gear that did the mixdown anyway.
[17:06] <astraljava> len-dt: Yeah that's for sure.
[20:37] <len-dt> ailo,  doing testing on the netbook in tweaked mode. That is cron and friends off, ath9k removed, CPU set full speed, and PA-jack bridge off. I had about 8 hours of zero xruns at the lowest latency I could get jack to start at (128)
[20:38] <len-dt> Then I had two instances of 2 or 3 seconds of xruns about an hour apart. 
[20:39] <len-dt> I went through the log files and found nothing happening at that point... in fact nothing for many hours before then... cron off makes for a quiet log file.
[20:40] <len-dt> The only thing I can think of is it looks about the time I touched something to stop the screen saver.
[20:41] <len-dt> However, I don't think it is the screen saver because I had done that lots of time during the time with no xruns.
[20:42] <len-dt> I am thinking the OS actually swapped out something and I by stopping the screen saver required it to be reloaded to ram.
[20:43] <len-dt> Swappiness is set to 10 right now. I will try the same thing with it set to 0 and see if the problem comes back.