[00:49] <ali1234> Azelphur: gnome-tweak-tool
[00:56] <Azelphur> fun, I ended up using ubuntu tweak
[01:16] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Heading Towards 0.2 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/22/heading-towards-0-2/
[02:34] <kat_> Hi
[06:16] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu 12.04: Parentally Precise - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/22/ubuntu-12-04-parentally-precise/
[07:03] <AlanBell> morning people
[07:05] <Azelphur> AlanBell: morning, did you see the news on phoronix? :D
[07:06] <AlanBell> about text tracking zoom in wayland?
[07:06] <Azelphur> yep :D
[07:06] <Azelphur> pc going to good use already hehe
[07:11]  * popey points Azelphur at soreau 
[07:11]  * Azelphur knows :D
[07:12] <soreau> :-)
[07:23] <diplo> Morning all
[07:31] <AlanBell> http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ everything is GO again
[07:31] <diplo> popey: Can you say something in bitfolk ive just added an ignore for joins/parts in irssi and i wonder if it's ignored everything
[07:31] <diplo> :)
[07:31] <diplo> ta
[07:33] <popey> woohoo! dropped a disk from my btrfs array
[07:34] <popey> whilst online and under active use
[07:35] <DJones> popey: Was that done as a test to see what happened, or just because you could
[07:35] <popey> because I need to juggle disks about
[07:35] <popey> wanted to make sure I could
[07:35] <popey> diplo: done
[07:36] <diplo> ta, I'd say /ignore is set then :D
[07:40] <Nafallo> morning!
[07:40] <diplo> morning, that was enthusiastic Nafallo :)
[07:41] <Nafallo> so is my trippel expresso. sooo needed this morning.
[07:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning earthlings
[07:41] <diplo> Moaning :)
[07:41] <diplo> T Minus 3 minutes!
[07:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> I thought is was meauning?
[07:42] <Azelphur> is that the private launch again?
[07:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> until what diplo
[07:42] <diplo> Well I'm moaning, kids wore me out last night, and woke me up at 5am this morning
[07:42] <diplo> spaceX
[07:42] <diplo> http://www.spacex.com/webcast/
[07:43] <Nafallo> breakfast time!
[07:43] <Nafallo> early at work, so yeah...
[07:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> what is spaceX diplo?
[07:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Apart from a rocket that is?
[07:43] <diplo> Private rocket, first one to visit the Space Station
[07:43] <Nafallo> sabdfl's fork of Xorg?
[07:43] <diplo> heh
[07:43] <Nafallo> oh
[07:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - This is the unmanned one right?
[07:43] <diplo> yeah
[07:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool.
[07:44] <AlanBell> this one is a robot, but I think they have one that will take 7 people
[07:44] <Azelphur> i bet they are all sitting there thinking "It better work this time" lol
[07:44] <diplo> lol
[07:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
[07:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> late again!
[07:44] <diplo> 10 seconds.....
[07:45] <diplo> It's going up
[07:45] <Azelphur> woo, working xD
[07:45] <Azelphur> inb4 it blows up
[07:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> where was it launched from?
[07:45] <AlanBell> cape canaveral
[07:46] <Azelphur> vehicle is supersonic o.O
[07:46] <AlanBell> looks like it is working well this time
[07:47] <Azelphur> indeed, looks like they've got it :D
[07:48] <Azelphur> there goes the detach
[07:49] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:49] <Azelphur> hello
[07:49] <Azelphur> haha, only going 6710mph
[07:50] <Azelphur> 7605 now \o/
[07:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> Bring on Sabre - there has to be a better way to get into space than that. http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre.html
[07:51] <diplo> has it been tried yet TheOpenSourcerer ?
[07:51] <Azelphur> up to 9000mph now xD
[07:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> They have built a test engine yes. In oxford.
[07:51] <Azelphur> clearly needs to go faster \o/
[07:52] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cools incoming air from 1000'c to -110'c in <100ms or something mad like that.
[07:52] <diplo> jeesh
[07:52] <Azelphur> 11,184mph :o
[07:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17864782
[07:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> "The message is that Britain has the next step beyond the jet engine; that we can reduce the world to four hours"
[07:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> plunge the intake gases to minus 140C in just 1/100th of a second.
[07:54] <Azelphur> yay clapping people :D
[07:54] <diplo> heh it's in Orbit, good work
[07:55] <Azelphur> they almost have as many monitors as I do
[07:55] <diplo> Just going to have a read TheOpenSourcerer
[07:55] <diplo> then i suppose i better to do some work
[07:55] <diplo> :P
[07:55] <Azelphur> that awkward moment when you realise you have more monitors than the average NASA employee
[07:56]  * diplo is using 4 atm
[07:56] <Azelphur> same xD
[07:57] <andylockran> anyone else watching spacex.com/webcast ?
[07:57] <Azelphur> yep, that's what we are all talking about
[07:57] <diplo> heh
[07:57] <andylockran> was scrolled up
[07:58] <andylockran> looks like someone could have tidied up the cabling...
[07:58] <Azelphur> haha, better cabling than I have :x
[07:59] <andylockran> is this not anchorman 2?
[08:00] <Azelphur> suddenly huge technology downgrade
[08:00] <Azelphur> you can see the budget cuts lol
[08:01] <andylockran> their twitter account fail :
[08:01] <andylockran> NASAKennedy #dragonlaunch successful - Spacecraft is not in orbit after on-time launch. twitpic.com/9nx6mo
[08:01] <Azelphur> lmao
[08:01] <Azelphur> they deleted it :P
[08:01] <hoover> morning all
[08:05] <Azelphur> guess that's all xD
[08:05] <diplo> heh
[08:12] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:27] <daubers> Morning
[08:27]  * daubers has given up with Thunderbird and it's wacky SSL cert oddities and gone back to mutt
[08:28] <bigcalm> Morning
[08:30]  * gord does his daily fist shaking at thunderbird
[08:36] <christel> morning
[08:37] <AlanBell> o/ christel
[08:37] <christel> hello AlanBell :)
[08:38] <popey> gord: you using an external display on your x220 at the moment
[08:38] <popey> ?
[08:39] <popey> if I plug a display into mine, the system locks up hard
[08:39] <popey> i have to REISUB to reboot. suggestions welcome!
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> REISUB?
[08:39] <popey> sysrq, you know
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> ah.. SUB :)
[08:39] <MartijnVdS> I don't do the REI bit
[08:40] <popey> i dunno where to look
[08:40] <MartijnVdS> popey: kernel log?
[08:41] <popey> which one?
[08:43] <daubers> syslog or kern.log probably (if it's a driver thing)
[08:43] <gord> popey, nope, but didn't have any issues with plugging into displays in oakland
[08:44] <popey> neither did I
[08:44] <popey> but this only started yesterday afternoon
[08:44] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:44] <daubers> o/
[08:45] <brobostigon> o/
[08:45] <bigcalm> \o/
[08:45] <gord> popey, see if neil is having problems? he drives a bunch of monitors from his
[08:52] <bigcalm> gord: you've been infected by an American phrase "bunch of"
[08:55] <gord> bigcalm, thats american? the song "lover-ley bunch of coconuts" begs to differ
[08:55] <bigcalm> gord: that's acceptable. When something like that can be called a bunch (see flowers)
[09:12] <czajkowski> bah no balor
[09:12]  * czajkowski hugs christel 
[09:15] <christel> thanks i needed that
[09:26] <awilkins> Is it just me, or is Ruby horrible?
[09:26] <s-fox> Hello MooDoo :)
[09:27] <awilkins> I suppose it might just be the tutorial I'm doing that makes Ruby look horrible
[09:31] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: Ruby is the bastard child of Perl, Python and PHP
[09:32] <diplo> heh MartijnVdS, RoR seems ok when I looked at it, but tbh I cba to look/learn another language
[09:35] <MartijnVdS> diplo: does the language support unicode yet? :)
[09:35] <directhex> but is it webscale?
[09:35] <directhex> IME the problem with ruby is it eats all the ram
[09:35] <directhex> ALL THE RAM
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> yeah
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> we run puppet
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> it does that too
[09:36] <MartijnVdS> it's ruby
[09:37] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, I'm just doing a tutorial and really hating things like the Dir class having methods... and an indexer (for searching on wildcards).. and the FileUtils.cp method being "cp"
[09:38] <directhex> also, ruby's developers are incredibly hostile towards distributions
[09:38] <directhex> debian almost dropped it totally
[09:38] <diplo> MartijnVdS: Seems it does in v1.9?
[09:38] <awilkins> Just adopted Redmine, hence the Ruby
[09:39] <awilkins> Almost wish Redmine didn't suit us so well now I have have a semi-formed opinion of the language based on 20 minutes of tutorials
[09:39] <directhex> awilkins, ditto
[09:40] <directhex> ruby is shit, but redmine is best-of-class
[09:40] <diplo> I've not heard of it
[09:40] <directhex> erk, sorry, forgot which channel i was in
[09:40]  * diplo googles
[09:40] <awilkins> Class being "open source software project forges"
[09:40] <christel>  
[09:41] <diplo> Seems exactly what I wanted, not sure I want a Ruby app either though
[09:41] <awilkins> TBH I like it better than the proprietary ones I've encountered which admittedly is a limited set (CollabNet, mostly)
[09:42] <awilkins> The RPC interface on CollabNet performs like a dead greyhound nailed to the ground with a railway spike.
[09:42] <AlanBell> I think you have to have a macbook air to use Ruby
[09:42] <AlanBell> and the right kind of sunglasses
[09:42] <directhex> haha
[09:42] <directhex> AlanBell++
[09:42] <diplo> heh, all the tutorials I saw were on macs
[09:43] <directhex> twittered
[09:43] <awilkins> Yeah, I saw a tutorial on Git that conveyed that impression, was Ruby-on-Rails with Git on a Mac
[09:44] <popey> s/macbook air/dell ultrabook/ ;)
[09:46] <directhex> y'know, i don't think i like many frameworks for development on linux
[09:47] <directhex> php is terrible - but it's fast to do things with, ubiquitous, and great webapps like mediawiki are made with it
[09:47] <directhex> python just pisses me the hell off
[09:47] <directhex> ruby would be inoffensive, if not for the developers believing their "packages are evil!" bull
[09:49] <directhex> perl, that's the future that is
[09:53] <diplo> I used to use Perl a lot, rarely touch it now
[09:54]  * bigcalm takes exception to these Exceptions being thrown
[09:57] <directhex> i haven't done any serious perl since i discovered c#
[09:57] <davmor2> morning all
[09:57] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[09:58] <czajkowski> davmor2: ello me old chapp
[09:58] <davmor2> directhex: perl is easy it's what comes after knit one
[09:58] <directhex> perl isn't great for gui app design though
[09:59] <davmor2> directhex: use python then
 python just pisses me the hell off
[09:59] <awilkins> >-<   The Object IDs for small integers in Ruby ... 0 is 1... 1 is 3... 2 is 5 ... and 100 is 201 ; that's utterly barmy
[10:00] <diplo> :D
[10:00] <awilkins> Is there some deeper purpose there I just don't get, or is it specifically designed to make your brain curl up and cry?
[10:00] <diplo> Hadn't got that far awilkins , and I agree
[10:03] <bigcalm> Anybody used their UK T-Mobile or Orange contract in Northern Ireland?
[10:03] <bigcalm> I'm wondering what to expect next week
[10:04] <awilkins> bigcalm, Dunno about NI, Southern Island you usually get a roaming text message as the ferry pulls into dock
[10:04] <awilkins> s/Isl/Ire/
[10:05] <bigcalm> Ireland will be for another holiday :)
[10:07] <directhex> http://www2.orange.co.uk/servlet/Satellite?c=OUKPage&cid=1096359194359&itemid=1044130409898&mid=1147441289806&pagename=OUKPersonal&t=OUKP-FAQs&tab=1&topic=1098209181221
[10:07] <directhex> i.e. NI is the UK, is served by UK networks at UK prices
[10:08] <bigcalm> Good :)
[10:08] <bigcalm> Then I hope my T-mobile contract works just the same :)
[10:09] <davmor2> directhex: use python to just create a webkit window and then do it all in html then
[10:10] <directhex> i could do that in c# :p
[10:10] <directhex> bit of the ol' webkit#
[10:44] <MooDoo> hello all
[10:44] <brobostigon> hello MooDoo
[10:53] <andylockran> muah
[10:53] <andylockran> this is awesome
[10:53] <directhex> yes, i am
[10:53] <andylockran> chilling out on the roof of the office in the sunshine :)
[10:53] <MooDoo> andylockran: bugger off :)
[10:53] <andylockran> got a brolly and my aptop
[10:53] <andylockran> laptop
[10:54] <andylockran> now, if only I didn't have clients this job would be perfect
[10:55] <davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT9i99D_9gI
[10:59] <bigcalm> Has anybody experienced ctrl-c not working in a shell?
[11:00] <brobostigon> bigcalm: yes, when the system load, has been huge, almost to the point of being non-responsive.
[11:01] <bigcalm> But not under normal load?
[11:01] <brobostigon> no.
[11:01] <bigcalm> Everything else about these servers seems to be OK, but ctrl-c isn't working
[11:01] <brobostigon> bigcalm: for some programs, it takes time to die, but still works.
[11:02] <bigcalm> This is even in bash :(
[11:02] <brobostigon> weird.
[11:03] <brobostigon> bigcalm: is that keydtroke, mapped or directly built into bash, and is unchangable?
[11:04] <bigcalm> brobostigon: key stroke
[11:05] <bigcalm> I have no idea what the rest of your sentence means
[11:06] <brobostigon> ok,
[11:06] <diplo> bigcalm: Defo not been remapped ?
[11:06] <diplo> By someone else ?
[11:08] <diplo> Type stty and see what intr is set to
[11:15] <AlanBell> anyone know about configuring hp raid controllers with hpacucli?
[11:15] <bigcalm> $ stty
[11:15] <bigcalm> speed 38400 baud; line = 0;
[11:15] <bigcalm> -brkint -imaxbel
[11:16] <davmor2> AlanBell: Nope you'll be after the sysadminy types I guess
[11:16] <bigcalm> Whoops, that was the wrong server
[11:16] <bigcalm> iain@web1:~$ stty
[11:16] <bigcalm> speed 38400 baud; line = 0;
[11:16] <bigcalm> -brkint -imaxbel
[11:17] <bigcalm> Heh, same anyway
[11:19] <awilkins> bigcalm, So break causes interrupt?
[11:19] <bigcalm> awilkins: I don't know about these things
[11:19] <awilkins> bigcalm, Try the break key
[11:20] <bigcalm> Nothing
[11:20] <bigcalm> Nor with any combination of shift, ctrl, alt, alt gr
[11:21] <awilkins> Try opening another shell and using kill to send SIGINT to the process you want to die
[11:21] <bigcalm> Would that be kill -SIGINT <pid>?
[11:22] <bigcalm> No change
[11:22] <awilkins> kill -INT pid?
[11:23] <awilkins> kill -2 pid?
[11:23] <bigcalm> Again no change
[11:23] <awilkins> Bah
[11:24] <awilkins> It's possible to disable ctrl-C thusly : http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/unix-linux-shell-scripting-disable-controlc/
[11:26] <awilkins> so trap `'echo Horsefeathers' 2 `just makes ctrl-C echo stuff
[11:26] <awilkins> Only seems to do it for the one terminal, so it would have to be in your profile if this method is being used
[11:27] <awilkins> just `trap 2` ough to turn it off
[11:29]  * bigcalm tests
[11:30] <bigcalm> Just `trap 2` on the cli with the back-ticks?
[11:30] <awilkins> Without
[11:30] <bigcalm> No change
[11:30] <awilkins> I'm in "askubuntu.com" mode
[11:30] <awilkins> Wiki markup
[11:31] <awilkins> What kind of sick spud disables interrupt signals...
[11:31] <bigcalm> Ok, I've never written in a wiki :)
[11:31] <directhex> me!
[11:31]  * directhex disables interrupt signals
[11:32] <awilkins> Ask ^ him how to fix it
[11:32] <bigcalm> directhex: fix my ctrl-c :)
[11:32] <awilkins> He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing
[11:32] <directhex> bigcalm, NO! muahahahahahaha!
[11:33]  * bigcalm bleeps
[11:33] <bigcalm> Time for foods
[11:34] <awilkins> What does `stty -a` say?
[11:35] <awilkins> adrian@tachikoma:~/koans$ stty -a
[11:35] <awilkins> speed 38400 baud; rows 46; columns 129; line = 0;
[11:35] <awilkins> intr = ^C;  <snip>
[11:35] <awilkins> The intr = ^C bit is significant here
[11:36] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1000656/
[11:36] <awilkins> Ok, well, your interrupt key is still ctrl-C
[11:36]  * awilkins headdesk
[11:39] <bigcalm> Can I change it to be something else?
[11:40] <czajkowski> bigcalm: why?
[11:40] <diplo> Yes you can bigcalm
[11:40] <bigcalm> To see if it works
[11:40] <diplo>  >stty
[11:40] <diplo> speed 38400 baud; line = 0;
[11:40] <diplo> intr = ^O;
[11:41] <diplo> Seeing if I can remember how :)
[11:41] <diplo> http://superuser.com/questions/310333/how-can-i-remap-ctrlc-to-send-an-interrupt-signal-with-another-key
[11:41] <bigcalm> Ta
[11:41] <diplo> Torch just about to enter my town
[11:42] <diplo> Want to know how they are live streaming this
[11:42] <diplo> No jitters/buffering or anything
[11:43] <davmor2> diplo: I'd say that was amasing but unless they have David Tenant in his Doctor Who gear running into the stadium with the torch it's all for nothing :D
[11:43] <bigcalm> stty intr q
[11:43] <bigcalm> Does nothing :(
[11:44] <bigcalm> To the fooding shop!
[11:45] <diplo> Can't move in my town :(
[11:54] <awilkins> Bah humbug to the Olympics
[11:57] <diplo> heh same here awilkins
[11:57] <diplo> Lazy git walking at the mo, he's like 20 years younger than the last guy!
[12:00] <awilkins> Oh, Ruby
[12:00] <awilkins> You are truly nutzoid
[12:00] <awilkins> "In ruby 1.8, single chars are represented by integers. In ruby 1.9, they are represented by strings"
[12:04] <directhex> :D
[12:25] <DJones> For an office server, what type of raid would you recommend it should have
[12:26] <DJones> I've been asked to get a price from Dell for a replacement server so we'll have something to compare our IT support's quote with
[12:29] <directhex> DJones, depends on the price/performance ratio you want to aim for
[12:29] <DJones> The "boss" wants supercomputer performance, with pen & paper price
[12:29] <directhex> raid 10
[12:30]  * bigcalm returns with foods
[12:30] <DJones> or, as cheap as possible but good performance
[12:30] <directhex> i.e. create a number of raid 1 pairs, then stripe them.
[12:31] <directhex> this means you get 50% of the storage capacity you pay for, and can sustain a number of disk failures between 1 and x, where x is the number of raid1 pairs you have, but only if the *correct disks fail
[12:31] <daubers> DJones: Is this hardware RAID or software RAID?
[12:31] <directhex> i.e. if both disks in the same raid1 pair die, you're stuffed
[12:32] <directhex> raid5 is the most cost-effective redundant storage option, but performance sucks
[12:32] <DJones> I would go with hardware raid, just looking at the dell website anyway
[12:32] <daubers> RAID6 with a decent RAID card performs pretty well these days
[12:32] <directhex> so you need to decide how much storage you want, versus how much to pay
[12:33] <directhex> as a random example, if you use consumer-grade 2T SATA disks, and want 4T of storage, with raid5 you need three disks, with raid10 you need 4.
[12:33] <directhex> plus a hotspare for best practice, in both
[12:33] <daubers> DJones: Is this for general office files, and for how many users?
[12:33] <DJones> As far as I can tell, the current server/enigma machine has roughly 40Gb of storage
[12:33] <directhex> for 10T of storage with 2T disks, that's 6 disks with raid5, or 10 disks with raid10
[12:34] <DJones> It is a pile of junk
[12:35] <DJones> Thanks for the thoughts anyway, seem to be looking at about £1250 for a server with raid5, 4 drives etc
[12:35] <AlanBell> DJones: if you don't need masses of storage then small SSD might be worth considering for supercomputer performnace
[12:35] <daubers> DJones: How many users?
[12:36] <DJones> daubers: About 4 users in total
[12:36] <daubers> DJones: Then anything will do really. If it's officey type files more spindles will be better performance wise
[12:36] <directhex> raid5 is fine, if you don't mind crap performance.
[12:37] <directhex> you can't make raid5 fast. you can fake it, by adding buckets of cache in front, which is why more expensive raid controllers have more cache
[12:37] <DJones> AlanBell: I don't think SSD will benefit anything apart from speed, and the network here is held together with string so its not the best
[12:37] <daubers> directhex: Modern RAID cards do really well in RAID 5/6, got a RAID 6 box downstairs that will keep par with a raid 10 setup
[12:37] <daubers> (this is large files, cache doesn't help)
[12:39] <directhex> daubers, i'm not sure how you can possibly overcome the inherent problem with needing to calculate parity data and write to every disk, for every stripe. that's just not going to be fast
[12:39] <daubers> directhex: The disks are still the slow point
[12:39] <directhex> daubers, right. so n disks means n seek times per write
[12:39] <directhex> the idea with raid performance is to maximize spindles for reading, and minimize for writing. which is, of course, impossible. hence balancing acts of different raid schemas
[12:40] <daubers> directhex: yep, the RAID cards can calculate the parity faster than they can write to disks
[12:41] <daubers> directhex: Good example, I have a RAID 50 set downstairs comprised of 24 SSD's. In that point, all of the RAID card cleverness (cachine and what not) is turned off and it performs as well as the same set in a RAID 10
[12:41] <daubers> the RAID card caching stuff slows that set down
[12:42] <daubers> The problem I have with that box is that the network cards can't keep up with it. The TCP offload engines aren't good enough
[12:43] <daubers> directhex: I've also found that different filesystems make a massive difference, much bigger than that of the RAID mode
[12:43] <directhex> that's easy. XFS all the things! :D
[12:43] <daubers> Yup
[12:44] <daubers> Really hoping btrfs can start to outperform XFS, but it's not quite there yet
[12:44] <directhex> butterfs. does it have fsck yet?
[12:45] <daubers> It does... not completley useful yet though
[12:45] <daubers> "Latest btrfs-progs (c. 26 Mar 2012)
[12:45] <daubers> btrfsck can now repair some forms of filesystem breakage"
[12:46] <directhex> until it has a usable fsck i wouldn't even use it on a personal system. maybe a test VM.
[12:47] <daubers> I tinker with it now and again. Hoping that it'll be really useable by late next year as some of the snapshotting features are very useful
[12:49] <directhex> xfsdump!
[12:52] <popey> btrfs is fun
[12:52] <davmor2> popey: have you tried snapshots yet?
[12:52] <popey> no
[12:52] <popey> i dont need them for what I'm doing
[12:53] <davmor2> popey: oh I thought you were just having a play with the btrfs features
[12:53] <popey> no, I am using it
[12:54] <popey> on my home server
[12:54] <davmor2> popey: yes using == playing honest :D
[13:00] <davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKkaLM9NcSo this version of the 80's classic still sends chills up my spine
[13:03] <gord> greatest thing i ever received in the post ever? http://ubuntuone.com/6k4qBUfeMN92zgZVb9CJr4
[13:04] <popey> lol
[13:04] <davmor2> gord: Hmmm Japanese cat food disguised as sweets ;)
[13:09] <diplo> That is great gord :P
[13:10] <czajkowski> gord: words fail me
[13:10]  * diplo is in two minds whether this Olympic Torch will make it round the country, at the speed it's done my town I doubt it!
[13:12] <davmor2> diplo: it has 70 days
[13:14] <diplo> Still... davmor2 :P
[13:14] <davmor2> diplo: no if they are Still you're right it'll never make it ;)
[13:19]  * dwatkins shakes his head at Unity refusing to let him login via NX
[13:19] <andylockran> aww
[13:19] <dwatkins> oh, it let me in the end, it was just annoying about it
[13:21] <davmor2> dwatkins: are you using unity 2d for login?  if not I don't think nx works right with 3d currently, I could be wrong
[13:24] <dwatkins> davmor2: it appears it defaulted to 2D
[13:25] <dwatkins> I'm not sure what I need to put in the 'custom' field for NX, mind.
[13:26] <davmor2> dwatkins: yeap so you would of had the time delay where is ran the test trying to login into 3d realised it couldn't and then logged into the 2d version instead
[13:26] <dwatkins> aha, gnome-session --session=ubuntu-2d
[13:26] <davmor2> dwatkins: that should all be a thing of the past in 12.10 apparently we'll see
[13:26] <dwatkins> ah ok
[13:27] <dwatkins> I only just updated this 'server' to 11.04, probably will leave it there a while
[13:29] <diplo> gord: Remind me to not let you in my kitchen!
[13:30] <daubers> So where is canonical moving too?
[13:31] <directhex> turkmenistan. in a giant corporate airship.
[13:32] <davmor2> directhex 's house
[13:32] <daubers> directhex: Cool!
[13:32]  * daubers wishes he worked in an airship
[13:32] <directhex> corporate airship would be the best thing ever.
[13:36] <vedreamer> sdfsdf fsdfsdf
[13:37] <shauno> what's that lassie?  little timmy's stuck in the well?
[13:37] <vedreamer> Oops. just trying out irc clients in Ububtu
[13:42] <awilkins> Richard Branson might be the sort to have a corporate airship
[13:43] <directhex> for a while aeroscraft were marketing them as an alternative to private jets
[13:43] <awilkins> Is 12.10 supposed to be Wayland, or just "available Wayland"
[13:43] <directhex> never sold any though afaik
[13:53] <ed_> hi, I want to install kubuntu 64bit version, the website lists a "kubuntu-12.04-desktop-amd64.iso" file, does this work only on amd cpu or intel aswell? (my machine has an i5 cpu) thanks
[13:53] <popey> no, it works on intel and amd64 64-bit chips
[13:53] <popey> (except itanium)
[13:54] <popey> it's just that AMD named the architecture
[13:54] <ed_> ok then, thanks
[13:54] <popey> np
[13:55] <directhex> surprising how often that comes up
[13:55] <directhex> nobody is confused that i386 works on non-intel chips
[13:55] <popey> i dont think people know what "i386" actually means
[13:55] <gord> ipod from the future
[13:56] <davmor2> geek and magic combo http://vimeo.com/4336830
[14:00] <diplo> Beer at lunch time wasn't such a good idea :'(
[14:01] <diplo> I wasn't doing very well before, doing worse now!
[14:43] <cocoa117> with e-sata port on the motherboard, can you use it as internal SATA with internal hard disk?
[14:48] <bigcalm> It's a different shape connector I thought
[14:52] <awilkins> The internal connectors are usually the same
[14:52] <awilkins> You're just supposed to use them with a breakout plate
[14:52]  * bigcalm nods
[14:52] <awilkins> Don't see why not
[14:52] <directhex> cocoa117, as far as the OS is concerned, they're the same thing. physically, it might be more challenging
[14:52] <awilkins> They're just rated for longer cables AFAIK
[14:53] <directhex> laptops sometimes have hybrid ports which are usb2 and esata
[14:55] <awilkins> With my mobo the esata is just a bonded socket on the backplane
[14:55] <popey> AlanBell: do you still have my mic and lead?
[14:56] <directhex> i don't have esata per se... my motherboard came with a bracket which connects to sata ports on the motherboard & presents esata connectors on the back of the case
[14:56] <directhex> but unpowered, so there's a second bracket for power connectors
[14:56] <directhex> then breakout cables - esata to sata, and molex to sata
[15:00] <cocoa117> directhex, so if they are physically the same, i can just use them as they are right? they looks phyically same to me, except its paint it in red, :)
[15:01] <popey> sata and esata cables/connectors are not the same
[15:01] <directhex> cocoa117, esata isn't physically the same. similar, but the power pins will likely get in the way
[15:02] <cocoa117> directhex, in that case, put it this way, if i can use normal sata cable connection from mobo e-sata port, i should be good to go right?
[15:04] <cocoa117> on the mobo, they look exact the same to me, i can even easily plug-in normal internal sata cable
[15:39] <awilkins> It's too hot in here
[15:39] <awilkins> They're skimping on the aircon again
[15:40]  * awilkins shakes his fist at the beancounters
[15:43]  * bigcalm draws the curtains and opens a window
[15:44] <bigcalm> Oh that is so much better
[15:45] <czajkowski> herro
[15:48] <davmor2> czajkowski: been let back in for good behaviour?
[15:48] <czajkowski> yup
[15:49] <davmor2> czajkowski: I don't know what more worrying, them letting you in or you being good :P
[15:49]  * czajkowski is always good 
[15:50] <davmor2> czajkowski: and the devil never lies.....oh wait :P
[15:55] <gord> czajkowski, what was in the cat packet: http://ubuntuone.com/1eKZzXUDUd0AgDxSnu1QYM http://ubuntuone.com/1sFfpo3GLcq8bm3H7HJMTr - worth every penny.
[15:56] <czajkowski> gord: you know how I feel about cats
[15:56] <czajkowski> gord: and I brought you TEA and bikies!
[15:56] <czajkowski> never again :/
[16:01] <MooDoo> hello all
[16:07] <davmor2> czajkowski: but I bought you a kitten as a house warming pressie
[16:07] <czajkowski> >:(
[16:08] <davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka
[16:08] <davmor2> czajkowski: what?
[16:10]  * SuperMatt thinks reddit.com/r/ubuntu/new needs more love
[16:10] <MooDoo> davmor2: how's hot going
[16:10] <MooDoo> czajkowski: prd!
[16:11] <davmor2> MooDoo: have you lost the ability so say prod all of a sudden?
[16:11] <bigcalm> Is it ok to complain about the weather yet?
[16:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: NO!!!!!
[16:11] <MooDoo> davmor2: no it wasn't a full prod, more like a half hearted attempt due to the time of day :)
[16:12] <davmor2> MooDoo: hahaha
[16:12] <MooDoo> bigcalm: don't worry it's going to rain again from sunday
[16:12] <bigcalm> Yippie
[16:12] <davmor2> MooDoo: BOOOO!!!!!
[16:12] <bigcalm> Just in time for our holiday in NI
[16:12]  * MooDoo going to devon
[16:13] <davmor2> I'm off to Shrewsbury doesn't sound nearly as good
[16:13] <bigcalm> davmor2: what business do you have in my fair county?
[16:13] <MooDoo> woolacoombe to be more precise
[16:14] <davmor2> bigcalm: RKM wools for wifey
[16:15] <bigcalm> davmor2: enjoy :)
[16:23]  * awilkins is going to London for NHSHackDay
[16:39]  * popey pokes AlanBell 
[16:40]  * Laney bells AlanPoke
[16:40] <popey> AlanBell: do you have my mic and stand and cable perchance?
[16:42] <bigcalm> Oh dear, that'll make podmaxing difficult
[16:43] <popey> indeed
[16:43] <popey> unless I have them but can't find them
[16:43]  * bigcalm thinks nobody got the reference :(
[16:44] <popey> I did ☺
[16:44] <bigcalm> \o/
[16:44] <popey> NONSENSE NONSENSE NONSENSE!
[16:44] <bigcalm> Hehehe
[16:44] <bigcalm> I always wanted to be a member of Black Squadron
[16:44] <popey> heh
[16:44] <bigcalm> But couldn't face the world at that time
[16:47] <bigcalm> $ host beta.totalderivatives.com
[16:47] <bigcalm> Host beta.totalderivatives.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
[16:47] <bigcalm> Anybody else get that?
[16:47] <Laney> beta.totalderivatives.com has address 89.16.175.105
[16:48] <bigcalm> Maybe because I asked before it had been actioned, my dns is caching it
[16:49] <bigcalm> Laney: thanks. whatsmydns.net says the same
[16:51] <davmor2> popey: you'll just have to sit cheek to cheek with tonytiger
[16:52] <bigcalm> Cosy
[16:52]  * bigcalm pokes the server with an ssl stick
[16:52] <bigcalm> Silly thing isn't responding
[16:53] <bigcalm> Bytemark VMs don't come with firewalls, do they?
[16:54] <alexcockell> Who's gonna be laughing at Eurovision tonight?
[16:54] <bigcalm> That's still a thing?
[16:58] <davmor2> alexcockell: You by the sound of it
[16:58] <dogmatic69> what is a decent home/small office 'backup' solution
[16:58] <bigcalm> I've enabled ssl on apache2 with a2enmod ssl, but the port seems to be closed still. Any thoughts?
[16:58] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: rsync!
[16:59] <BigRedS> depends what you want to do, we use backuppc here and it doesn't seem too much faff for only a few hosts
[16:59] <davmor2> dogmatic69: Ubuntu one, a usb/esata caddy, rsync
[16:59] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: sorry, talking more hardware side first off.
[16:59] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: off-site harddrive dedicated to your backups running rdiff-backup (this is what I do)
[16:59] <bigcalm> Actually, it's what I do for my parents
[16:59] <bigcalm> I don't have anything of worth to backup here
[17:00] <davmor2> bigcalm: can you hear it....no....I'm playing the worlds smallest violin just for you
[17:01] <bigcalm> davmor2: you know I can work from any machine :P
[17:01]  * davmor2 makes a note to learn to play the violin it's squeaking like hell
[17:01] <dogmatic69> davmor2: http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0kox1EZGj1qkismz.gif
[17:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: I'll loan you my laptop some time muhahahahahaha
[17:02] <bigcalm> Yay, got https working - had to add Listen 443 to /etc/apach2/ports.conf
[17:02] <bigcalm> davmor2: then I shall plug in a USB kb ;)
[17:02] <davmor2> bigcalm: wuss
[17:02] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: drop the bloat, cherokee ftw
[17:03]  * bigcalm rolls his eyes
[17:03] <bigcalm> Not going to happen any time soon
[17:03] <dogmatic69> :(
[17:03] <dogmatic69> nginx...
[17:03] <bigcalm> Business doesn't work that quickly
[17:04] <davmor2> dogmatic69: depending on how much data you have, do a deja-dup to U1 or and external hd and done
[17:04] <dogmatic69> davmor2: 100G+
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> hence ".. or and external hd"
[17:04] <davmor2> dogmatic69: external hd
[17:14] <bigcalm> https works, yay
[17:14] <bigcalm> Time for a walk
[17:19] <the-penguin> Hi I can't update my system. No keyrings installed in /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/
[17:20] <the-penguin> Had no problems updating a few days ago and my sources list looks ok
[17:45] <vedreamer> Can someone remind me how to suppress join quit messages, I can't seem to get the syntax right.
[17:45] <brobostigon>  /help ignore
[17:45] <mh0> vedreamer: XChat has a feature for that
[17:47] <vedreamer> I'm using XChat-GNOME but couldn't see it
[17:47] <mh0> Probably not then
[17:47] <mh0> Weird, I can't even seem to find the setting anymore
[17:48] <mh0> OH
[17:48] <mh0> vedreamer: I think it can also be channel specific
[17:48] <vedreamer> i know it's /ignore <something> QUIT JOIN
[17:49] <mh0> vedreamer: It's channel dependant. Right click your channel > Settings > Hide Quit/Join Messages
[17:52] <vedreamer> Do you mean in the channel pane on the left?
[17:52] <mh0> yeah
[17:53] <vedreamer> Not in mione :-(
[17:53] <mh0> hm
[17:53] <mh0> xchat-gnome is rather different from the actual xchat
[17:53] <mh0> And is much, much older
[17:53] <mh0> 0.3.0
[17:53] <mh0> Mine is 2.8.8
[17:54] <vedreamer> Thanks, I'll drop it then and switch to Xchat.
[18:02] <vedreamer> ah much better. Thanks
[18:32] <Azelphur> hmm, what's the usual pdf viewer in ubuntu?
[18:33] <Azelphur> I don't seem to have it for some reason
[18:33] <stgraber> evince
[18:33] <Azelphur> was uninstalled for some reason, odd *shrug*
[19:09]  * AlanBell listens to the podcast
[19:18] <dogmatic69> Is there anything I can setup to monitor a folder for new files and then run a command when there is something new / changed/
[19:19] <dogmatic69> been trying google but only getting back stuff related to finding and searching for files
[19:24] <gord> dogmatic69, inotifywait
[19:37] <dogmatic69> gord: thanks, seems like that will do the trick
[19:38] <dogmatic69> gord: do you know if it is ok to run that for days / weeks on end?
[19:43] <BigRedS> I've done it before with no ill effect
[19:50] <gord> dogmatic69, its fine, that is the point of inotify
[20:25] <mrevell> What's up #ubuntu-maas?
[20:29] <mattt> mrevell: WRONG WINDOW
[20:30] <mrevell> mattt, Ah, damn, no, just stupid typing. I meant to type #ubuntu-uk but got distracted...
[20:31]  * AlanBell thinks everyone should join #ubuntu-maas and say hi to Daviey who is very lonely in there
[20:32] <mrevell> :)
[20:32] <mrevell>  #maas is where it's at
[20:32] <AlanBell> ooh canonical and your out-of-namespace channels
[20:33] <mrevell> AlanBell, Ach. We had a discussion about this earlier and the other two people on the call were very happy to palm the decision off onto me :) So, I Picarded it and went with #maas ... it's for the upstream project of MAAS, so, erm, that's my justification.
[20:33] <mrevell> :)
[20:38] <AlanBell> thats fine :)
[20:42] <Daviey> AlanBell: i'm going to make a forward from #ubuntu-maas to #maas.  Unless you want to handle it? :)
[20:53] <AlanBell> go for it Daviey, you should be able to part and rejoin to get ops and set it up
[21:02] <Daviey> AlanBell: bah, i hoped i managed to get you to do it :)
[21:14] <SuperEngineer> Hi folks.  Has anyone tried the Gimp 2.8 ppa? Is it safe in 12.04 as claimed?
[21:23] <AlanBell> SuperEngineer: where is it claimed that it is safe?
[21:25] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: 2 secs
[21:26] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~otto-kesselgulasch/+archive/gimp the description on the PPA indicates that there should be no dependency problems and that it should install, it does not promise to be safe for future upgrades
[21:26] <AlanBell> Otto is one of the maintainers and if I was going to install gimp 2.8 that is where I would install it from
[21:26] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: you beat me to it!
[21:27] <ali1234> i'm going to install it and if it breaks it's all your fault AlanBell
[21:27] <AlanBell> but it is not 'safe' it is quite explicitly 'at your own risk'
[21:27] <SuperEngineer> ...but it is the future that woories me too... if only I could remember where I parked the time machine!
[21:28] <ali1234> definitely your fault
[21:31] <AlanBell> do I get the credit if it works?
[21:31] <ali1234> no
[21:31]  * SuperEngineer wonders if ali1234 could have my time machine.. if so - let me know if you find any probs pretty please
[21:32] <ali1234> i know that gimp 2.8 has an annoying design regression where it won't let you save a file unless it is already .xcf
[21:32] <SuperEngineer> ooops
[21:32] <ali1234> so before you could open screenshot -> crop -> save
[21:33] <ali1234> now you have to open screenshot -> crop -> export -> select format -> type filename -> etc
[21:33] <ali1234> i plan to go and complain about this as soon as i've installed it
[21:34] <SuperEngineer> that's my mind made up - thanks ali1234 - think I'll wait awhile [& can I have my time machine back please]
[21:34] <ali1234> i really want single window mode though
[21:34] <ali1234> i've been waiting for it for like 5 years
[21:35] <SuperEngineer> yup - that was my only reason for even thinking about it
[21:36] <SuperEngineer> so many people begging for it - now we just need a stable version that does itr
[21:36] <ali1234> of course that design regression wouldn't be nearly as bad if gnome/ubuntu hadn't rippled the printscreen function
[21:36] <dogmatic69> anyone used fibre channel HDD's?
[21:39] <ali1234> sccording to gimp.org "There are some optimizations for alternative   workflows such as opening a jpg, polishing it, and quickly exporting   back to the original file."
[21:40] <AlanBell> printscreen is working fine again I think
[21:40] <AlanBell> alt-printscreen does what you would expect, with options to save or copy
[21:41] <ali1234> in classic gnome it screenshots 1 window
[21:41] <AlanBell> unless I fixed mine myself, not sure
[21:41] <AlanBell> yeah, it screenshots one window
[21:41] <ali1234> i can't test it in unity because i killed it with fire
[21:43] <ali1234> anyone know how to enable single window mode then?
[21:43] <ali1234> oh. that's not very good
[21:43] <ali1234> something is broken with my gtk, menu bars don't wrap any more
[21:44] <ali1234> if menu wider than window, the rest of the items just get cut off
[21:44]  * AlanBell congratulates ali1234 for finding something good about global menus
[21:45] <ali1234> global menus are almos certainly the reason why nobody has noticed this regression
[21:49] <ali1234> hmm single window mode isn't actually as good as it could have been
[21:50] <ali1234> it doesn't use MDI like photoshop. it has a weird tabbed interface like firefox
[21:50] <ali1234> so you can't view two images side by side
[21:51] <ali1234> you can't move tool windows over the image you've working on
[21:51] <ali1234> and the toolbox always has to be in the top right
[21:52] <SuperEngineer> it *is*a first try - & a point to move forward from though - I hope.
[21:53] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: but the tapped layers sounds good [but you're the one who's using it so I'm only going from your edescription
[21:54] <ali1234> tapped layers?
[21:54] <SuperEngineer> ooops
[21:54] <SuperEngineer> tabbed
[21:54] <ali1234> it's not for layers
[21:54] <ali1234> layers interface is exactly the same
[21:54] <ali1234> it's if you open multiple windows
[21:54] <ali1234> er... multiple images
[21:55] <ali1234> the images still appear under the "windows" menu though lol
[21:56] <SuperEngineer> hmmm - so they're not windows, but are "windows"
[21:56] <ali1234> yeah
[21:56] <ali1234> there not even MDI child windows
[21:58] <ali1234> i'm really surprised they've actually managed to make something even worse
[21:58] <SuperEngineer> well, I suppose it's as I said, it's a first try  - only way is up
[21:58] <ali1234> they could surprise me again and continue to make it worse in each release
[22:00] <ali1234> ok, there's a menu item for imported images (ie not xcf) to directly export them back to the original file with one step. so that's good
[22:00] <ali1234> i want to use xcf the rest of the time anyway
[22:01] <Azelphur> ali1234: I spoke to Logitech, they blame my horrible hong kong ebay bought USB devices
[22:01] <SuperEngineer> ...they could *charge* for it... me, I say thanks
[22:01] <SuperEngineer> - but I stay at current stable version
[22:01] <Azelphur> which I guess is possible, I'mma try unplugging all the things for a while
[22:01] <ali1234> and also it remembers the export settings so once you've exported once you ctrl-e and it's like "save" except to the jpeg copy
[22:02] <ali1234> so you don't have to remember to save as xcf then save as jpeg to keep the two files in sync
[22:02] <ali1234> you just press ctrl-s ctrl-e
[22:02] <ali1234> that's awesome :)
[22:02] <AlanBell> nice
[22:03] <AlanBell> could be nicer and remember a bunch of output resolutions to save an xcf as
[22:03] <ali1234> you mean like export to multiple different resolutions in one ctrl-e?
[22:04] <ali1234> you need adobe for that still :)
[22:04] <AlanBell> or rather, I have one xcf file, and on save of that I want a .gif this size, a png that size and two jpegs of these settings . . .
[22:05] <SuperEngineer> thanks for all the feedback ali1234
[22:13]  * SuperEngineer is now off to the room with pillows in it - have fun folkies ;)