=== webpigeo1 is now known as webpigeon [00:49] Azelphur: gnome-tweak-tool [00:56] fun, I ended up using ubuntu tweak [01:16] [Jono Bacon] Heading Towards 0.2 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/22/heading-towards-0-2/ [02:34] Hi [06:16] [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu 12.04: Parentally Precise - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/22/ubuntu-12-04-parentally-precise/ [07:03] morning people [07:05] AlanBell: morning, did you see the news on phoronix? :D [07:06] about text tracking zoom in wayland? [07:06] yep :D [07:06] pc going to good use already hehe [07:11] * popey points Azelphur at soreau [07:11] * Azelphur knows :D [07:12] :-) [07:23] Morning all [07:31] http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ everything is GO again [07:31] popey: Can you say something in bitfolk ive just added an ignore for joins/parts in irssi and i wonder if it's ignored everything [07:31] :) [07:31] ta [07:33] woohoo! dropped a disk from my btrfs array [07:34] whilst online and under active use [07:35] popey: Was that done as a test to see what happened, or just because you could [07:35] because I need to juggle disks about [07:35] wanted to make sure I could [07:35] diplo: done [07:36] ta, I'd say /ignore is set then :D [07:40] morning! [07:40] morning, that was enthusiastic Nafallo :) [07:41] so is my trippel expresso. sooo needed this morning. [07:41] morning earthlings [07:41] Moaning :) [07:41] T Minus 3 minutes! [07:42] I thought is was meauning? [07:42] is that the private launch again? [07:42] until what diplo [07:42] Well I'm moaning, kids wore me out last night, and woke me up at 5am this morning [07:42] spaceX [07:42] http://www.spacex.com/webcast/ [07:43] breakfast time! [07:43] early at work, so yeah... [07:43] what is spaceX diplo? [07:43] Apart from a rocket that is? [07:43] Private rocket, first one to visit the Space Station [07:43] sabdfl's fork of Xorg? [07:43] heh [07:43] oh [07:43] Ahh - This is the unmanned one right? [07:43] yeah [07:44] Cool. [07:44] this one is a robot, but I think they have one that will take 7 people [07:44] i bet they are all sitting there thinking "It better work this time" lol [07:44] lol [07:44] Morning AlanBell [07:44] late again! [07:44] 10 seconds..... [07:45] It's going up [07:45] woo, working xD [07:45] inb4 it blows up [07:45] where was it launched from? [07:45] cape canaveral [07:46] vehicle is supersonic o.O [07:46] looks like it is working well this time [07:47] indeed, looks like they've got it :D [07:48] there goes the detach [07:49] hello all [07:49] hello [07:49] haha, only going 6710mph [07:50] 7605 now \o/ [07:50] Bring on Sabre - there has to be a better way to get into space than that. http://www.reactionengines.co.uk/sabre.html [07:51] has it been tried yet TheOpenSourcerer ? [07:51] up to 9000mph now xD [07:51] They have built a test engine yes. In oxford. [07:51] clearly needs to go faster \o/ [07:52] Cools incoming air from 1000'c to -110'c in <100ms or something mad like that. [07:52] jeesh [07:52] 11,184mph :o [07:53] diplo: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17864782 [07:53] "The message is that Britain has the next step beyond the jet engine; that we can reduce the world to four hours" [07:54] plunge the intake gases to minus 140C in just 1/100th of a second. [07:54] yay clapping people :D [07:54] heh it's in Orbit, good work [07:55] they almost have as many monitors as I do [07:55] Just going to have a read TheOpenSourcerer [07:55] then i suppose i better to do some work [07:55] :P [07:55] that awkward moment when you realise you have more monitors than the average NASA employee [07:56] * diplo is using 4 atm [07:56] same xD [07:57] anyone else watching spacex.com/webcast ? [07:57] yep, that's what we are all talking about [07:57] heh [07:57] was scrolled up [07:58] looks like someone could have tidied up the cabling... [07:58] haha, better cabling than I have :x [07:59] is this not anchorman 2? [08:00] suddenly huge technology downgrade [08:00] you can see the budget cuts lol [08:01] their twitter account fail : [08:01] NASAKennedy #dragonlaunch successful - Spacecraft is not in orbit after on-time launch. twitpic.com/9nx6mo [08:01] lmao [08:01] they deleted it :P [08:01] morning all [08:05] guess that's all xD [08:05] heh [08:12] Good morning peeps :) [08:27] Morning [08:27] * daubers has given up with Thunderbird and it's wacky SSL cert oddities and gone back to mutt [08:28] Morning [08:30] * gord does his daily fist shaking at thunderbird [08:36] morning [08:37] o/ christel [08:37] hello AlanBell :) [08:38] gord: you using an external display on your x220 at the moment [08:38] ? [08:39] if I plug a display into mine, the system locks up hard [08:39] i have to REISUB to reboot. suggestions welcome! [08:39] REISUB? [08:39] sysrq, you know [08:39] ah.. SUB :) [08:39] I don't do the REI bit [08:40] i dunno where to look [08:40] popey: kernel log? [08:41] which one? [08:43] syslog or kern.log probably (if it's a driver thing) [08:43] popey, nope, but didn't have any issues with plugging into displays in oakland [08:44] neither did I [08:44] but this only started yesterday afternoon [08:44] good morning everyone. [08:44] o/ [08:45] o/ [08:45] \o/ [08:45] popey, see if neil is having problems? he drives a bunch of monitors from his [08:52] gord: you've been infected by an American phrase "bunch of" [08:55] bigcalm, thats american? the song "lover-ley bunch of coconuts" begs to differ [08:55] gord: that's acceptable. When something like that can be called a bunch (see flowers) === astromech is now known as knightwise [09:12] bah no balor [09:12] * czajkowski hugs christel [09:15] thanks i needed that [09:26] Is it just me, or is Ruby horrible? [09:26] Hello MooDoo :) [09:27] I suppose it might just be the tutorial I'm doing that makes Ruby look horrible [09:31] awilkins: Ruby is the bastard child of Perl, Python and PHP [09:32] heh MartijnVdS, RoR seems ok when I looked at it, but tbh I cba to look/learn another language [09:35] diplo: does the language support unicode yet? :) [09:35] but is it webscale? [09:35] IME the problem with ruby is it eats all the ram [09:35] ALL THE RAM [09:36] yeah [09:36] we run puppet [09:36] it does that too [09:36] it's ruby [09:37] MartijnVdS, I'm just doing a tutorial and really hating things like the Dir class having methods... and an indexer (for searching on wildcards).. and the FileUtils.cp method being "cp" [09:38] also, ruby's developers are incredibly hostile towards distributions [09:38] debian almost dropped it totally [09:38] MartijnVdS: Seems it does in v1.9? [09:38] Just adopted Redmine, hence the Ruby [09:39] Almost wish Redmine didn't suit us so well now I have have a semi-formed opinion of the language based on 20 minutes of tutorials [09:39] awilkins, ditto [09:40] ruby is shit, but redmine is best-of-class [09:40] I've not heard of it [09:40] erk, sorry, forgot which channel i was in [09:40] * diplo googles [09:40] Class being "open source software project forges" [09:40] [09:41] Seems exactly what I wanted, not sure I want a Ruby app either though [09:41] TBH I like it better than the proprietary ones I've encountered which admittedly is a limited set (CollabNet, mostly) [09:42] The RPC interface on CollabNet performs like a dead greyhound nailed to the ground with a railway spike. [09:42] I think you have to have a macbook air to use Ruby [09:42] and the right kind of sunglasses [09:42] haha [09:42] AlanBell++ [09:42] heh, all the tutorials I saw were on macs [09:43] twittered [09:43] Yeah, I saw a tutorial on Git that conveyed that impression, was Ruby-on-Rails with Git on a Mac [09:44] s/macbook air/dell ultrabook/ ;) [09:46] y'know, i don't think i like many frameworks for development on linux [09:47] php is terrible - but it's fast to do things with, ubiquitous, and great webapps like mediawiki are made with it [09:47] python just pisses me the hell off [09:47] ruby would be inoffensive, if not for the developers believing their "packages are evil!" bull [09:49] perl, that's the future that is === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [09:53] I used to use Perl a lot, rarely touch it now [09:54] * bigcalm takes exception to these Exceptions being thrown [09:57] i haven't done any serious perl since i discovered c# [09:57] morning all [09:57] czajkowski: prod [09:58] davmor2: ello me old chapp [09:58] directhex: perl is easy it's what comes after knit one [09:58] perl isn't great for gui app design though [09:59] directhex: use python then [09:59] python just pisses me the hell off [09:59] >-< The Object IDs for small integers in Ruby ... 0 is 1... 1 is 3... 2 is 5 ... and 100 is 201 ; that's utterly barmy [10:00] :D [10:00] Is there some deeper purpose there I just don't get, or is it specifically designed to make your brain curl up and cry? [10:00] Hadn't got that far awilkins , and I agree [10:03] Anybody used their UK T-Mobile or Orange contract in Northern Ireland? [10:03] I'm wondering what to expect next week [10:04] bigcalm, Dunno about NI, Southern Island you usually get a roaming text message as the ferry pulls into dock [10:04] s/Isl/Ire/ [10:05] Ireland will be for another holiday :) [10:07] http://www2.orange.co.uk/servlet/Satellite?c=OUKPage&cid=1096359194359&itemid=1044130409898&mid=1147441289806&pagename=OUKPersonal&t=OUKP-FAQs&tab=1&topic=1098209181221 [10:07] i.e. NI is the UK, is served by UK networks at UK prices [10:08] Good :) [10:08] Then I hope my T-mobile contract works just the same :) [10:09] directhex: use python to just create a webkit window and then do it all in html then [10:10] i could do that in c# :p [10:10] bit of the ol' webkit# [10:44] hello all [10:44] hello MooDoo [10:53] muah [10:53] this is awesome [10:53] yes, i am [10:53] chilling out on the roof of the office in the sunshine :) [10:53] andylockran: bugger off :) [10:53] got a brolly and my aptop [10:53] laptop [10:54] now, if only I didn't have clients this job would be perfect [10:55] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT9i99D_9gI [10:59] Has anybody experienced ctrl-c not working in a shell? [11:00] bigcalm: yes, when the system load, has been huge, almost to the point of being non-responsive. [11:01] But not under normal load? [11:01] no. [11:01] Everything else about these servers seems to be OK, but ctrl-c isn't working [11:01] bigcalm: for some programs, it takes time to die, but still works. [11:02] This is even in bash :( [11:02] weird. [11:03] bigcalm: is that keydtroke, mapped or directly built into bash, and is unchangable? [11:04] brobostigon: key stroke [11:05] I have no idea what the rest of your sentence means [11:06] ok, [11:06] bigcalm: Defo not been remapped ? [11:06] By someone else ? [11:08] Type stty and see what intr is set to [11:15] anyone know about configuring hp raid controllers with hpacucli? [11:15] $ stty [11:15] speed 38400 baud; line = 0; [11:15] -brkint -imaxbel [11:16] AlanBell: Nope you'll be after the sysadminy types I guess [11:16] Whoops, that was the wrong server [11:16] iain@web1:~$ stty [11:16] speed 38400 baud; line = 0; [11:16] -brkint -imaxbel [11:17] Heh, same anyway [11:19] bigcalm, So break causes interrupt? [11:19] awilkins: I don't know about these things [11:19] bigcalm, Try the break key [11:20] Nothing [11:20] Nor with any combination of shift, ctrl, alt, alt gr [11:21] Try opening another shell and using kill to send SIGINT to the process you want to die [11:21] Would that be kill -SIGINT ? [11:22] No change [11:22] kill -INT pid? [11:23] kill -2 pid? [11:23] Again no change [11:23] Bah [11:24] It's possible to disable ctrl-C thusly : http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/unix-linux-shell-scripting-disable-controlc/ [11:26] so trap `'echo Horsefeathers' 2 `just makes ctrl-C echo stuff [11:26] Only seems to do it for the one terminal, so it would have to be in your profile if this method is being used [11:27] just `trap 2` ough to turn it off [11:29] * bigcalm tests [11:30] Just `trap 2` on the cli with the back-ticks? [11:30] Without [11:30] No change [11:30] I'm in "askubuntu.com" mode [11:30] Wiki markup [11:31] What kind of sick spud disables interrupt signals... [11:31] Ok, I've never written in a wiki :) [11:31] me! [11:31] * directhex disables interrupt signals [11:32] Ask ^ him how to fix it [11:32] directhex: fix my ctrl-c :) [11:32] He who can destroy a thing, controls that thing [11:32] bigcalm, NO! muahahahahahaha! [11:33] * bigcalm bleeps [11:33] Time for foods [11:34] What does `stty -a` say? [11:35] adrian@tachikoma:~/koans$ stty -a [11:35] speed 38400 baud; rows 46; columns 129; line = 0; [11:35] intr = ^C; [11:35] The intr = ^C bit is significant here [11:36] http://paste.ubuntu.com/1000656/ [11:36] Ok, well, your interrupt key is still ctrl-C [11:36] * awilkins headdesk [11:39] Can I change it to be something else? [11:40] bigcalm: why? [11:40] Yes you can bigcalm [11:40] To see if it works [11:40] >stty [11:40] speed 38400 baud; line = 0; [11:40] intr = ^O; [11:41] Seeing if I can remember how :) [11:41] http://superuser.com/questions/310333/how-can-i-remap-ctrlc-to-send-an-interrupt-signal-with-another-key [11:41] Ta [11:41] Torch just about to enter my town [11:42] Want to know how they are live streaming this [11:42] No jitters/buffering or anything [11:43] diplo: I'd say that was amasing but unless they have David Tenant in his Doctor Who gear running into the stadium with the torch it's all for nothing :D [11:43] stty intr q [11:43] Does nothing :( === CreakyBore is now known as Guest13316 [11:44] To the fooding shop! [11:45] Can't move in my town :( [11:54] Bah humbug to the Olympics [11:57] heh same here awilkins [11:57] Lazy git walking at the mo, he's like 20 years younger than the last guy! [12:00] Oh, Ruby [12:00] You are truly nutzoid [12:00] "In ruby 1.8, single chars are represented by integers. In ruby 1.9, they are represented by strings" [12:04] :D [12:25] For an office server, what type of raid would you recommend it should have [12:26] I've been asked to get a price from Dell for a replacement server so we'll have something to compare our IT support's quote with [12:29] DJones, depends on the price/performance ratio you want to aim for [12:29] The "boss" wants supercomputer performance, with pen & paper price [12:29] raid 10 [12:30] * bigcalm returns with foods [12:30] or, as cheap as possible but good performance [12:30] i.e. create a number of raid 1 pairs, then stripe them. [12:31] this means you get 50% of the storage capacity you pay for, and can sustain a number of disk failures between 1 and x, where x is the number of raid1 pairs you have, but only if the *correct disks fail [12:31] DJones: Is this hardware RAID or software RAID? [12:31] i.e. if both disks in the same raid1 pair die, you're stuffed [12:32] raid5 is the most cost-effective redundant storage option, but performance sucks [12:32] I would go with hardware raid, just looking at the dell website anyway [12:32] RAID6 with a decent RAID card performs pretty well these days [12:32] so you need to decide how much storage you want, versus how much to pay [12:33] as a random example, if you use consumer-grade 2T SATA disks, and want 4T of storage, with raid5 you need three disks, with raid10 you need 4. [12:33] plus a hotspare for best practice, in both [12:33] DJones: Is this for general office files, and for how many users? [12:33] As far as I can tell, the current server/enigma machine has roughly 40Gb of storage [12:33] for 10T of storage with 2T disks, that's 6 disks with raid5, or 10 disks with raid10 [12:34] It is a pile of junk [12:35] Thanks for the thoughts anyway, seem to be looking at about £1250 for a server with raid5, 4 drives etc [12:35] DJones: if you don't need masses of storage then small SSD might be worth considering for supercomputer performnace [12:35] DJones: How many users? [12:36] daubers: About 4 users in total [12:36] DJones: Then anything will do really. If it's officey type files more spindles will be better performance wise [12:36] raid5 is fine, if you don't mind crap performance. [12:37] you can't make raid5 fast. you can fake it, by adding buckets of cache in front, which is why more expensive raid controllers have more cache [12:37] AlanBell: I don't think SSD will benefit anything apart from speed, and the network here is held together with string so its not the best [12:37] directhex: Modern RAID cards do really well in RAID 5/6, got a RAID 6 box downstairs that will keep par with a raid 10 setup [12:37] (this is large files, cache doesn't help) [12:39] daubers, i'm not sure how you can possibly overcome the inherent problem with needing to calculate parity data and write to every disk, for every stripe. that's just not going to be fast [12:39] directhex: The disks are still the slow point [12:39] daubers, right. so n disks means n seek times per write [12:39] the idea with raid performance is to maximize spindles for reading, and minimize for writing. which is, of course, impossible. hence balancing acts of different raid schemas [12:40] directhex: yep, the RAID cards can calculate the parity faster than they can write to disks [12:41] directhex: Good example, I have a RAID 50 set downstairs comprised of 24 SSD's. In that point, all of the RAID card cleverness (cachine and what not) is turned off and it performs as well as the same set in a RAID 10 [12:41] the RAID card caching stuff slows that set down [12:42] The problem I have with that box is that the network cards can't keep up with it. The TCP offload engines aren't good enough [12:43] directhex: I've also found that different filesystems make a massive difference, much bigger than that of the RAID mode [12:43] that's easy. XFS all the things! :D [12:43] Yup [12:44] Really hoping btrfs can start to outperform XFS, but it's not quite there yet [12:44] butterfs. does it have fsck yet? [12:45] It does... not completley useful yet though [12:45] "Latest btrfs-progs (c. 26 Mar 2012) [12:45] btrfsck can now repair some forms of filesystem breakage" [12:46] until it has a usable fsck i wouldn't even use it on a personal system. maybe a test VM. [12:47] I tinker with it now and again. Hoping that it'll be really useable by late next year as some of the snapshotting features are very useful [12:49] xfsdump! [12:52] btrfs is fun [12:52] popey: have you tried snapshots yet? [12:52] no [12:52] i dont need them for what I'm doing [12:53] popey: oh I thought you were just having a play with the btrfs features [12:53] no, I am using it [12:54] on my home server [12:54] popey: yes using == playing honest :D [13:00] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKkaLM9NcSo this version of the 80's classic still sends chills up my spine [13:03] greatest thing i ever received in the post ever? http://ubuntuone.com/6k4qBUfeMN92zgZVb9CJr4 [13:04] lol [13:04] gord: Hmmm Japanese cat food disguised as sweets ;) [13:09] That is great gord :P [13:10] gord: words fail me [13:10] * diplo is in two minds whether this Olympic Torch will make it round the country, at the speed it's done my town I doubt it! [13:12] diplo: it has 70 days [13:14] Still... davmor2 :P [13:14] diplo: no if they are Still you're right it'll never make it ;) [13:19] * dwatkins shakes his head at Unity refusing to let him login via NX [13:19] aww [13:19] oh, it let me in the end, it was just annoying about it [13:21] dwatkins: are you using unity 2d for login? if not I don't think nx works right with 3d currently, I could be wrong [13:24] davmor2: it appears it defaulted to 2D [13:25] I'm not sure what I need to put in the 'custom' field for NX, mind. [13:26] dwatkins: yeap so you would of had the time delay where is ran the test trying to login into 3d realised it couldn't and then logged into the 2d version instead [13:26] aha, gnome-session --session=ubuntu-2d [13:26] dwatkins: that should all be a thing of the past in 12.10 apparently we'll see [13:26] ah ok [13:27] I only just updated this 'server' to 11.04, probably will leave it there a while [13:29] gord: Remind me to not let you in my kitchen! [13:30] So where is canonical moving too? [13:31] turkmenistan. in a giant corporate airship. [13:32] directhex 's house [13:32] directhex: Cool! [13:32] * daubers wishes he worked in an airship [13:32] corporate airship would be the best thing ever. === schwuk is now known as schwuk_away [13:36] sdfsdf fsdfsdf [13:37] what's that lassie? little timmy's stuck in the well? [13:37] Oops. just trying out irc clients in Ububtu [13:42] Richard Branson might be the sort to have a corporate airship [13:43] for a while aeroscraft were marketing them as an alternative to private jets [13:43] Is 12.10 supposed to be Wayland, or just "available Wayland" [13:43] never sold any though afaik [13:53] hi, I want to install kubuntu 64bit version, the website lists a "kubuntu-12.04-desktop-amd64.iso" file, does this work only on amd cpu or intel aswell? (my machine has an i5 cpu) thanks [13:53] no, it works on intel and amd64 64-bit chips [13:53] (except itanium) [13:54] it's just that AMD named the architecture [13:54] ok then, thanks [13:54] np [13:55] surprising how often that comes up [13:55] nobody is confused that i386 works on non-intel chips [13:55] i dont think people know what "i386" actually means [13:55] ipod from the future [13:56] geek and magic combo http://vimeo.com/4336830 [14:00] Beer at lunch time wasn't such a good idea :'( [14:01] I wasn't doing very well before, doing worse now! === schwuk_away is now known as schwuk [14:43] with e-sata port on the motherboard, can you use it as internal SATA with internal hard disk? [14:48]