[02:16] <nixternal> greg-g: i have a client that i was at all last week that is right around the corner. i had lunch there every damn day
[02:18] <nixternal> snap-l: you read about ubuntu accomplishments 0.2 yet? bet you can't wait to read it either :p
[02:19] <nixternal> i live about 25 minutes west of hot dougs, so i still frequent it
[02:25] <snap-l> nixternal: I wish them every success
[02:25] <snap-l> and I wish for permission to completely ignore it
[02:26] <snap-l> The last time I actually gave a shit about merit badges was the one day I was a Boy Scout. I got mycommuncation badge,and thought "why am I doing this to myself?" Plus, the scoutmaster's son was an ass.
[02:27] <snap-l> He was Arnold J Rimmer. All pomp and military-like, but the first dodgeball to the face and he crumpled like a used kleenex.
[02:32] <shakes808> Hello all
[02:32] <shakes808> I have a question
[02:33] <shakes808> Trying to work on the Pyramid tutorial and am having problems trying to run it. I have recreated the venv and all that and still won't run.
[02:34] <shakes808> I was in #python trying to get some help but wasn't working out
[02:34] <shakes808> here is what it is doing
[02:34] <shakes808> http://bpaste.net/show/fwqcuUqYjrZ1IYiOMjor/
[03:04] <snap-l> You might want to check #pyramid for help
[03:04] <snap-l> I've sen that error before, but I can't place it.
[03:07] <shakes808> alright thank you
[03:35] <greg-g> nixternal: jealous, I would eat there all the time, too.
[04:29] <nixternal> i still prefer true chicago style, but when i get the chance i hit that place up. especially when they have specials or new beasts to eat :)
[04:30] <nixternal> i tried that vegetarian crap, it is over rated and it made me fat(ter).
[04:31] <greg-g> heh
[04:31] <greg-g> nixternal: I even got the duck fat fries
[04:47] <nixternal> omg, those are nuts. i can't believe you went crazy like that
[04:47] <nixternal> you just pissed off the entire hipster community. may che be with you
[04:48] <nixternal> if you are so anal about having GNU/Linux as part of your distro name...get the f off facebook & twitter!
[04:48] <nixternal> if you use gnu/linux, you believe in that filth stallman spews, and if that is the case, you are against enemies such as twitter & fb
[04:53] <greg-g> wait, did you switch between talking to me and someone else there, nixternal ?
[04:55] <nixternal> greg-g: damn, i did. i didn't switch channels on the gnu/linux stuff
[04:56] <nixternal> when i start doing that, it means it is time for sleep!
[04:56] <greg-g> I hear ya
[04:56] <greg-g> g'night!
[10:58] <snap-l> nixternal: As with most things Stallman, there's a nuance that is completely missed by his disciples
[11:42] <rick_h_> morning
[11:43] <rick_h_> http://pandodaily.com/2012/05/21/bootstrapped-github-now-raising-a-round-from-andreessen-horowitz/
[11:44] <rick_h_> crazy, I didn't realize the in house github box was such the big deal
[11:58] <shakes808> Good morning all
[12:00] <rick_h_> party
[12:03] <brousch> potty
[12:34] <snap-l> Is it just me, or does the name Marc Andreessen signal "run away"
[12:35] <rick_h_> guess I don't know enough about the guy
[12:36] <snap-l> ACtually, looking at their track record on wikipedia; they've picked some pretty good winners
[12:37] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreessen_Horowitz
[12:38] <snap-l> Apparently I'm full of it
[12:38] <rick_h_> lol
[12:39] <brousch> acknowledgement is the first step
[12:46] <snap-l> He still gives me the tech heebie-jeebies, but I'd settle for half of his tech picks.
[14:48] <rick_h_> http://goo.gl/KSlTG
[14:48] <rick_h_> amen ^^
[14:54] <brousch> ug
[14:54] <brousch> too long
[14:54] <rick_h_> it's very good thgh
[14:57] <brousch> sems to repeat the same thing over and over
[15:25] <rick_h_> woot! getting to play my old grey beard cards today
[15:29] <_stink_> just today?
[15:29] <rick_h_> :)
[15:34] <snap-l> Got some O'Reilly books for MUG
[15:34] <snap-l> not sure what they sent us, so it'll be a sur-prise!
[15:35] <snap-l> rick_h_: I swear, IE9 should just be treated as one giant <canvas> tag
[15:35] <snap-l> and just do off-browser rendering on some other machine. ;)
[15:40] <rick_h_> hah
[17:08] <brousch> render the pages as jpg server side and just send them down
[17:16] <Blazeix> that's how gtk3's html background works, via multipart/x-mixed-replace
[17:17] <Blazeix> er, s/background/backend/
[17:18] <Blazeix> i wonder if you could use that backend with webkit to render all pages server-side, then push them to a canvas for IE. that should work, i'd think
[17:18] <Blazeix> of course, you'd go to hell for doing that, but it'd be an interesting exercise
[17:19] <jrwren> would you say that unused imports at top of a python file is a sign of inexperienced pythonista?
[17:19] <rick_h_> jrwren: I'd say it's a sign of someone not using good tools
[17:20] <rick_h_> jrwren: but not necessarily inexperienced, it's not hard to miss when you're editing a file down well below of imports
[17:20] <rick_h_> make lint ftw!
[17:21] <snap-l> jrwren: It depends. It could be the sign of someone doing cut-and-paste code, or it could be the sign of refactoring without clean-up
[17:21] <brousch> i do! in my belly button!
[17:22] <snap-l> It's not something I'd crucify a developer over, but I'd remove them once I noticed
[17:22] <rick_h_> yea, it's why you have your build server run lint/etc tools on the code as well as tests
[17:22] <snap-l> unless it was brousch, because any excuse for a crucifixion is a good one.
[17:22] <rick_h_> yea, pep8 (habit stuff) is actually a bigger sign imo
[17:23] <brousch> pydev warns me about unused imports and unused variables
[17:23] <rick_h_> yea, but sometimes you don't notice because it's usually next to the line in erorr
[17:23] <rick_h_> so if you open a file, jump to the bottom, refactor some bits, and close it...meh
[17:23] <snap-l> If you're going a programmer interview, I'd recommend giving tasks that have python built-in equivalents
[17:23] <rick_h_> it happens
[17:23] <snap-l> like finding a value in an array
[17:26] <rick_h_> dammit, django strikes again...
[17:26] <rick_h_> oh sqlalchemy how I !@$#@! miss you
[17:27] <rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5821947/sqlalchemy-getter-setter-in-declarative-mixin-class vs https://code.djangoproject.com/ticket/3148
[17:30] <brousch> anyone poked at this yet? https://www.pythonanywhere.com/
[17:31] <rick_h_> no, it's cool but can't find a need/use for it
[17:32] <brousch> move launchpad to it
[17:33] <snap-l> They need to figure out how to get pygame to work with it. :)
[17:34] <snap-l> rick_h_: That comment thread on that Django patch needs more razor blades and emo kids
[17:34] <rick_h_> well it's nuts. That thing is year's old. You're telling me you can't find a single way to make this thing work in all that time?
[17:34] <rick_h_> it's a feature I use in about every app I do
[17:35] <snap-l> rick_h_: Maybe the problem is with you. :)
[17:35] <snap-l> YOu're doing it wrong.
[17:35] <snap-l> That's not hte DJango way.
[17:35] <rick_h_> yea, I always forget to put that hat on
[17:35] <rick_h_> the 'shut up and enjoy our crap you hater' hat
[17:39] <brousch> quit doing it wrong!
[17:43] <brousch> rick_h_: you should spend your time making a django->pyramid conversion script
[17:43] <rick_h_> brousch: ummm...no
[17:43] <brousch> do it!
[17:43] <rick_h_> django devs don't want pyramid
[17:43] <rick_h_> it's like saying you'd make a mac->linux conversion script
[17:43] <rick_h_> they're revolt at the idea
[17:44] <brousch> make it go both ways, like git-svn
[17:44]  * rick_h_ shoots self
[17:45] <brousch> you work in pyramid, but push to django
[17:45] <brousch> ahahahah
[17:45] <brousch> mission accomplished
[17:47] <jrwren> rick_h_: that django issue is terrible.
[17:48] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I keep finding these long standing tickets for things as I go along
[17:48] <rick_h_> like brousch said, I'm not asking for anything that hasn't been thought of before...just not implemented yet I geuss :/
[17:49] <brousch> disappointing
[17:49] <brousch> there are patches and everything even
[17:49] <rick_h_> patches don't mean crap, see the ticket from yesterday adding pidfile support to the dev server
[17:50]  * rick_h_ goes off and grumbles while trying to move things forward
[17:50] <jcastro> rick_h_: those eneloops are awesome
[17:50] <jcastro> <3
[17:50] <rick_h_> jcastro: glad you like
[17:50] <snap-l> ?
[17:51] <rick_h_> snap-l: rechargable batteries
[17:51] <rick_h_> the eneloops are the branch that the apple rechargables are underneath
[17:52] <rick_h_> brand that is
[17:52] <jcastro> http://www.eneloop.info/
[17:52] <rick_h_> suggested jcastro get some a while back
[17:57] <snap-l> They're just rechargables?
[17:57] <rick_h_> yea
[17:57] <rick_h_> but good quality ones
[17:57] <snap-l> OK, for some reason I was hoping they'd have some kinetic charging mechanism or something. :)
[17:58] <snap-l> eneloop just sounds like it should be more than conventional rechargable.
[17:58] <jcastro> yeah
[17:58] <jcastro> they're pretty nice though
[18:58] <greg-g> lmorchard: hey, we should talk sometime about badg.us and LRMI (http://lrmi.net). Basically, recording, via metadata, the educational competencies/standards on the "proof" page
[18:58] <greg-g> I'm here at a conference with Chris M. from Mozilla OB
[18:58] <lmorchard> Hah I was just going to mention him
[18:59] <lmorchard> and irc://irc.mozilla.org/badges
[18:59] <greg-g> ah, k, we have lunch now, be back later :)
[18:59] <snap-l> lmorchard: You should really come to CHC tomorrow. :)
[18:59] <snap-l> I'll get you some clove gum if it would get you there.
[18:59] <lmorchard> Oddly enough, I will be in ann arbor tomorrow night :/
[19:00] <snap-l> bah
[19:00] <lmorchard> Leaving the house, but in the other direction
[19:00] <snap-l> no clove gum then
[19:01] <snap-l> INstead I'll be getting you some Necco Wafers
[19:02] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necco#Brands <- Gah, it's like a collection of all of the candy I despise in one company
[19:03] <lmorchard> It's nice out now, though, so my chances of leaving the house are rising
[19:07] <snap-l> lmorchard: OK, you have my permission to go to AA tomorrow (http://www.aadl.org/events/list?id=14190)
[19:08] <lmorchard> Yeah, that's why :)
[19:08] <lmorchard> Also taking my wife, the archival studies grad student, with me
[19:09] <brousch> mmmm, clove um
[19:09] <brousch> almost as good as black licorice
[19:11] <snap-l> Hah, they have a reference to my old BBS on textfiles.com
[19:11] <snap-l> http://bbslist.textfiles.com/616/
[19:11] <snap-l> I'll give you a hint: my old handle was a Rush album name
[19:12] <rick_h_> ah, so love passing tests
[19:14] <brousch> i'm going through this right now http://www.tdd-django-tutorial.com/
[19:16] <rick_h_> ugh! selenium ootb?
[19:16] <jrwren> gawd i suck at python
[19:17] <rick_h_> what did you do now jrwren?
[19:17]  * rick_h_ bets nothing we haven't done 10x
[19:17] <jrwren> nothin, i just odn't know how to do such simple stuff
[19:17] <brousch> what's wrong with selenium?
[19:17] <rick_h_> ah, learning curve stuff?
[19:17] <jrwren> like, how do I determine the module I'm in.
[19:17] <rick_h_> brousch: it's slow!
[19:17] <jrwren> yeah, learning curve stuff.
[19:17] <rick_h_> jrwren: __name__
[19:17] <rick_h_> __file__ is helpful as well
[19:18] <rick_h_> there's some other __xx__ magic vars
[19:20] <rick_h_> jrwren: oh, maybe __module__
[19:20] <rick_h_> http://docs.python.org/reference/datamodel.html goes through the big ones it seems
[19:21] <rick_h_> brousch: check out hte django test Client for most unit testing
[19:21] <jrwren> yeah, but it seem context sensitive.
[19:21] <rick_h_> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/testing/?from=olddocs#default-test-client
[19:22] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it's the current module/file/etc
[19:22] <rick_h_> jrwren: what are you hoping to get a hold of?
[19:22] <jrwren> if I'm in a class I can self.__module__ but in a top level function (django view) its different.
[19:22] <jrwren> django view name
[19:22] <jrwren> i'm sure a name would never change.
[19:23] <jrwren> but still that APP='name of my view' string is driving me bonkers
[19:23] <rick_h_> jrwren: huh? what string is that?
[19:23] <jrwren> someone put there.
[19:23] <jrwren> and it shouldn't be there, of course :)
[19:23] <rick_h_> ah, gotcha
[19:23] <rick_h_> yea, well no helping people doing wrong things for sure :/
[19:24] <jrwren> i'm trying to clean up
[19:28] <lmorchard> snap-l: Heh, Newt BBS?
[19:28] <snap-l> Yep
[19:29] <snap-l> Later became Whatsamatta U when I moved dorm rooms
[19:30] <lmorchard> This was more my BBS hood: http://bbslist.textfiles.com/810/
[19:30] <snap-l> Yeah, my friend ran Olympus
[19:31] <snap-l> Olympus BBS Mark II
[19:31] <lmorchard> Got my first job out of college working for Industry BBS, who were turning themselves into a dialup ISP and web hosting niz
[19:32] <snap-l> Oh very cool
[19:33] <snap-l> Met the guys who ran surfboard and surfboard II
[19:33] <snap-l> http://bbslist.textfiles.com/313/
[19:33] <snap-l> Good times
[19:35] <lmorchard> I remember a few times in high school carting my amiga and modem over to a friend's house because he was on the edge of different toll-free calling areas, and vice versa
[19:35] <snap-l> lmorchard: Yeah, I learned what a zone phone call was in those days
[19:35] <brousch> dorks!
[19:35] <snap-l> brousch: shush
[19:35] <brousch> mostly i'm just jealous
[19:36] <brousch> i didn't compute until college
[19:36] <lmorchard> I also once got banned from fidonet for a bit by figuring out how to download MODs from aminet with FTP-by-email -> email-by-fidonet
[19:36] <snap-l> I didn't get a modem until high school
[19:36] <brousch> please carry on with your belt onion talk
[19:36] <snap-l> and that was pretty late.
[19:36] <lmorchard> which seemed like a good idea, but pissed off about 18 BBS sysops as their machines did a bucket brigade carrying all my mods across the country by calling each other at night
[19:37] <snap-l> lmorchard: Yeah, I could see that causing some problems.
[19:37] <devinheitmueller> Modem?  I had to modulate and demodulate the signal by hand back in the day...  ;-)
[19:37] <snap-l> especially since folks paid some serious long-distance charges to keep those networks running
[19:37] <jrwren> haha, i fail at django. :)
[19:38] <snap-l> I remember paying $50 phone bills in college to pay for keeping up a network to Ohio
[19:38] <jrwren> hilarious.
[19:38] <lmorchard> Yeah, at the time I was mostly like… hmm, this can't possibly work… (1 week later) oh crap, I have 20MB of email on my BBS
[19:38] <brousch> jrwren: unpossible
[19:38] <lmorchard> (back when my modem was 2400bps)
[19:38] <snap-l> lmorchard: brick-shitting time
[19:39] <snap-l> lmorchard: And BBses weren't equipped to handle that kind of traffic
[19:39] <brousch> 20MB of ASCIIpr0n?
[19:39] <brousch> that's all i remember my friend downloading
[19:40] <lmorchard> It was probably about 18 MB of amiga music mods, and 2 MB of sysops telling to die in a fire
[19:41] <snap-l> hah
[19:42] <snap-l> I wonder how many of them had disks that ran out of space because of it.
[19:42] <snap-l> probably non-zero
[19:42] <lmorchard> Oh, for sure
[19:42] <lmorchard> I had a 128MB HD in my amiga and thought that was hawt
[19:44] <jrwren> my Amiga had 2 3.5" micro floppy drives and that is all.
[20:22] <greg-g> ok, back :)
[20:33] <brousch> wow, coffeescript looks pretty nice. almost python in javascript
[20:35] <Blazeix>  /cue rick_h_ asploding
[20:35] <Blazeix> but i agree, it does look tempting
[20:43]  * rick_h_ just keeps on typing
[20:44] <Blazeix> ...into the irc client as he composes his manifesto
[20:44] <rick_h_> please don't say it's like python though...it's a way to line thigns up
[20:44] <rick_h_> you can say it's better JS, but really comparing it to python is more than a bit shallow to it
[20:45] <rick_h_> hah
[20:45] <rick_h_> hey, I've said I want to do something in coffeescript
[20:45] <rick_h_> but not going to say it makes JS like Python or ever ruby
[20:45] <rick_h_> /ever/even
[20:47] <brousch> it adds a lot of python-like features: default values in functions, list comprehensions
[20:48] <brousch> things that anger me in JS because they don';t exist
[23:40] <jrwren> coffeescript adds list comprehensions?
[23:52] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea
[23:52] <rick_h_> it's really the only big added language thing, it transforms them to underscore style for loops