[00:02] <RAOF> Have we decided that the display manager will spawn the system compositor? In that case we can play fd passing games, leaving only the actual protocol. I guess it might make sense to use wayland protocol handling for that.
[00:06] <RAOF> So that's what I'll do next ;)
[00:12] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I think we should aim for that.  I've just got to break for lunch but be back in a few hourse
[00:12] <RAOF> K.
[00:34] <RAOF> bryceh: Have you seen Martin's comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xkeyboard-config/+bug/825624 ?
[00:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 825624 in xkeyboard-config "patch: added dead_hook and dead_horn to latin keyboard layout" [Low,Fix committed]
[00:53] <bryceh> RAOF, no I hadn't
[00:57] <RAOF> bryceh: Shall I reject that upload from the queue?
[01:01] <bryceh> alright
[01:02] <RAOF> Grrr python-launchpadlib-toolkit. Stupid packaging errors leaving the build tree in the diff.
[01:09] <jbicha> robert_ancell: hey since we were talking about it today, do you want to handle bug 1003202 ?
[01:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1003202 in clutter-gesture "Sync clutter-gesture 0.0.2.1-6 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003202
[01:13] <RAOF> Almost down to a single page of pending SRUs! Then there can be coffee.
[01:20] <RAOF> Oh, did I say a single page? I meant down to two pages :/
[01:54] <TheMuso> heh
[02:16] <ritz> jasoncwarner_, ping, had shot you an email
[02:17] <jasoncwarner_> ritz: you did? I don't seem to have gotten it?
[02:17]  * jasoncwarner_ goes and looks...what is the subject?
[02:19] <ritz> jasoncwarner_, pm
[02:41] <robert_ancell> jbicha, hey, don't think I can approve syncs?!
[02:43] <ajmitch> robert_ancell: if you can upload it, you can use syncpackage to do the sync
[02:43] <robert_ancell> ajmitch, aha, thanks
[02:43] <robert_ancell> I'm going to be using that a lot more...
[02:44] <ajmitch> it's a very useful tool, nice to not have to bother archive admins to do syncs
[02:46] <micahg> robert_ancell: yes, just test build first please :)
[02:50] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: What are you syncing? Don't want to duplicate work...
[02:50] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, the bug jbicha asked me to do
[02:50] <robert_ancell> clutter-gesture
[02:51] <RAOF> That's already in the queue, isn't it?
[02:51] <TheMuso> Yes it is.
[02:51] <TheMuso> At least on the sponsorship queue.
[02:52]  * TheMuso moves onto something else.
[02:52] <RAOF> I thought I saw it in the quantal launchpad queue. Maybe not.
[02:53] <micahg> robert_ancell: -s for sponsoring and -b to close a bug with syncpackage
[02:54] <robert_ancell> micahg, ok
[02:57] <jbicha> robert_ancell: thanks
[03:15] <RAOF> Ok, that's enough SRUing.
[03:18] <TheMuso> I'd say doing all those KDE SRUs would be a little annoying...
[03:19] <TheMuso> Especially when it comes to those damn kde-l10n packages...
[03:19] <RAOF> It's more annoying when launchpad won't let you accept more than 6 or so packages at a time before timing out.
[03:20] <lifeless> its unlikely to do more than one
[03:21] <lifeless> paste an OOPS and I'll step you through where the time is going
[03:23] <RAOF> Oh.  It actually does 4-5 reliably.
[03:24] <lifeless> count yourself lucky
[03:36] <pitti> Good morning
[03:37] <thumper> hi pitti
[03:42] <RAOF> Hey pitti
[03:42] <TheMuso> Morning pitti.
[03:43] <TheMuso> Is it just me, or does anybody else experience rendering issues with vte under particular circumstances?
[03:43] <TheMuso> i.e in gnome-terminal?
[03:43] <TheMuso> I occasionally use elinks, and experience weird rendering issues where I get stripes accross the screen where I can see bits of the wallpaper behind.
[03:44] <RAOF> TheMuso: Using nouveau under Quantal?
[03:44] <pitti> I don't use elinks, but everything else in g-terminal seems to behave just fine here (intel)
[03:45] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yes. Sounds like you know about it then.
[03:46] <RAOF> TheMuso: Yeah, it's an annoying interaction between the new cairo 1.12 and EXA. It's fixed upstream, but after the libdrm API break, and there's not currently a mesa suitable for Quantal that'll work against that API.
[03:47] <TheMuso> Right.
[03:47] <TheMuso> Its quantal after all, so issues are expected, so I can deal with it.
[03:47] <TheMuso> Thanks.
[03:50] <jbicha> pitti: another early morning for you?
[03:51] <pitti> jbicha: yeah, couldn't sleep any more after my wife got up
[06:16] <rickspencer3> pitti, I was not expecting so much beer this early in the cycle!
[06:16] <didrocks> good morning
[06:17] <pitti> rickspencer3: *beam*
[06:17] <pitti> hey didrocks
[06:17] <rickspencer3> hi didrocks
[06:17] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti, bonjour rickspencer3
[06:18] <rickspencer3> now we just need to get the automated testing running, get the 12.10 on 12.04 kernel + related bits PPA set up, etc...
[06:18] <rickspencer3> it feels like we're off to a fast start this cycle
[06:18] <rickspencer3> bonjour didrocks, il pleut encore!
[06:19] <rickspencer3> ja vais retourner á Seattle pour la soleil
[06:19] <didrocks> rickspencer3: pas ici, j'ai même pu courrir ici :)
[06:20] <didrocks> Lyon, c'est mieux donc ;)
[06:20] <rickspencer3> Lyon, oui, nous pouvons demanager à lyon prochaine fois
[06:21] <didrocks> ;)
[06:22] <pitti> we are now in desperate need of some MIR reviews, so that we can clean up component-mismatches after the debian import wave
[06:23] <didrocks> pitti: will maybe try to tackle some today, however there is still a bunch of work to be done for compiz and helping the PS integration team to backport 2 commits…
[06:23] <pitti> didrocks: I'll poke mterry this afternoon
[06:24] <pitti> his openal-soft merge introduced some more universe build deps, so I need to discuss with him anyway
[06:24] <didrocks> ok :)
[06:39] <tkamppeter_> pitti, hi
[06:40] <pitti> hello tkamppeter_
[06:49] <tkamppeter> pitti, it is about the SRU for CUPS.
[06:49] <tkamppeter> pitti, there are two major problems:
[06:52] <tkamppeter> pitti, USB printing does not work and it seems to be the only solution to return to blacklisting the usblp kernel module, finally deprecating it. It is only used by some old proprietary drivers.
[06:53] <pitti> tkamppeter: we have a cups-filters in -proposed ATM, there is no cups in precise-updates or -proposed
[06:53] <pitti> tkamppeter: do you mean cups-filters?
[06:54] <pitti> ah no, that wouldn't be related to USB
[06:54] <pitti> tkamppeter: I guess you mean "you need to do a cups SRU"?
[06:56] <tkamppeter> pitti, the other problem is the IPP backend. CIt has a lot of problem and there are many changes on it in CUPS 1.5.3. Problem is that it is not easy to overview which changes need to get backported to CUPS 1.5.2 to get all fixes. Could we perhaps issue CUPS 1.5.3 as SRU, as it is claimed to be a bug fix release?
[06:57] <pitti> tkamppeter: in general, it does not matter whether we get fixes through debian/patches or a new upstream microrelease
[06:58] <pitti> tkamppeter: however, in SRUs we cannot trade breaking one printer for fixing another one
[06:58] <pitti> i. e. all changes must be regression proof, which a whole rewrite certainly isn't
[07:00] <tkamppeter> pitti, 1.5.3 is not a whole rewrite of the IPP backend, it is only difficult to tell the IPP fixes apart. So to guarantee to get all IPP fixes and to get consistence I simply would pull in also all the other fixes which were done on CUPS.
[07:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, I see
[07:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: that sounds ok if we actually have bug reports about these failures, so that reporters can verify them
[07:01] <pitti> tkamppeter: but 1.5.3 should go into Debian/quantal either way
[07:01] <pitti> (and needs to before we can SRU)
[07:01] <tkamppeter> pitti, there are 4 or 5 IPP bug reports currently.
[07:02] <pitti> good, then we have some good chances of getting feedback
[07:10] <tkamppeter> pitti, so I will go ahead and bump CUPS to 1.5.3, and blacklist the usblp module again.
[07:10] <tkamppeter> pitti, and upload this also as SRU.
[07:10] <pitti> tkamppeter: ok, thanks; I seem to remember a Debian bug which talked about this, too
[07:11] <tkamppeter> pitti, tell me the number, so that I can add it to the changelog.
[07:11] <pitti> tkamppeter: thanks; please let me know when bzr is ready for a Debian upload, it's relatively urgent to push that out (release team is waiting for the multi-arch fix)
[07:12] <pitti> tkamppeter: I will if I dig it out again
[07:32] <ricotz> hello desktopers
[07:32] <ricotz> didrocks, hi
[07:32] <didrocks> hey ricotz, how are you?
[07:32] <ricotz> didrocks, i am fine :)
[07:33] <ricotz> i hope everyone had a nice UDS
[07:33] <ricotz> didrocks, how are you?
[07:33] <ricotz> (before i reporting a bug)
[07:33] <didrocks> ricotz: I'm great thanks! UDS was nice, indeed :)
[07:33] <didrocks> ahah
[07:33] <didrocks> what bug? ;)
[07:34] <ricotz> there is a problem with the unity-launcher patch of nautilus
[07:34] <didrocks> in quantal/precise?
[07:34] <ricotz> the timeout calling progress_ui_handler_disable_unity_urgency isnt dismissed
[07:34] <ricotz> in quantal
[07:34] <ricotz> meaing progress_ui_handler_disable_unity_urgency never returns false
[07:35] <didrocks> ah, this isn't my part of the code, but I can give it a look
[07:35] <didrocks> but that part didn't change from precise, so precise should have the same issue
[07:35] <ricotz> once triggerd it never stops firing updates
[07:36] <ricotz> didrocks, thanks
[07:36] <didrocks> ricotz: can you open a bug and assign it to me? I'll give it a look (probably next week as tomorrow and Friday is off for me)
[07:36] <didrocks> (with some details instructions in which case it's not dismiss, I think just copying a file…)
[07:37] <ricotz> didrocks, ok
[07:37] <seb128> hey
[07:37] <pitti> hey seb128
[07:37] <seb128> pitti, oya ;-)
[07:38] <seb128> how are you?
[07:38] <pitti> seb128: quite fine, thanks! how about yourself?
[07:38] <didrocks> thanks ricotz
[07:38] <didrocks> salut seb128
[07:38] <pitti> making good progress on ubuntu-drivers-common here, hacking for 4 hours already :)
[07:38] <seb128> pitti, good, thanks!
[07:38] <seb128> lut didrocks
[07:38] <seb128> pitti, how do you manage to get up so early ;-)
[07:39] <pitti> seb128: have a wife which gets up at 5:10, and then not being able to sleep any more
[07:39] <pitti> sometimes when I'm tired I do, but I was quite awake today
[07:39] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: hey Jason, how are you?
[07:39] <seb128> she has to get up so early to go to work or is she just a morning person?
[07:39] <pitti> seb128: I'm going to ask Jason about attending GUADEC, btw
[07:40] <pitti> seb128: she just likes to start and finish her work early
[07:40] <pitti> the office opens at 6, so she's usually there at 6
[07:40] <pitti> so she can finish at 15:30
[07:40] <seb128> ok
[07:40] <pitti> I want to go to GUADEC either way, especially with my new role (talking GNOME guys into testing, etc.)
[07:41] <seb128> pitti, great for GUADEC, though I'm not sure how it works, jasoncwarner_ said we had 3 slot for desktop team
[07:41] <seb128> pitti, check maybe with rickspencer3?
[07:41] <seb128> pitti, technically you will not be under our team count by then
[07:41] <pitti> or Pete then, as at that time I'll be in the QA team
[07:41] <seb128> right
[07:41] <pitti> rickspencer3: ^ should I ask Pete or you about me attending GUADEC then?
[07:42] <seb128> pitti, well I think jasoncwarner_ said he got the number of slots from rick
[07:42] <micahg> seb128: sorry, was out when you pinged, I'm about to head to sleep, but should be back around 15:30 UTC
[07:42] <seb128> micahg, ok, no hurry, ping me when you get online if you want to discuss firefox testing
[07:42] <pitti> rickspencer3: I need to interview a couple of GNOME guys about adding tests, and discuss how to write/submit/maintain/run them; guadec would be quite helpful for that
[07:43] <pitti> seb128: so from desktop team that's you, didrocks, and someone else?
[07:43] <seb128> pitti, us and robert_ancell
[07:43] <pitti> ah
[07:44] <ricotz> didrocks, i can't assign it -- https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1003286
[07:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1003286 in nautilus "dbus unity launcherentry.updates aren't getting dismissed" [Undecided,New]
[07:44] <didrocks> ricotz: will do it, then, thanks!
[07:45] <bryceh> RAOF, 988312 sru fixed up
[07:46] <didrocks> ricotz: btw, you did you notice it for the record? ;)
[07:46] <didrocks> as nothing graphical should be visible
[07:48] <ricotz> didrocks, i am implementing watching the "om.canonical.Unity.LauncherEntry.Update" interface
[07:48] <didrocks> ricotz: ah, funny, looking at the spam on dbus by dbus-monitor? ;)
[07:49] <ricotz> didrocks, no, my debug output going crazy ;)
[07:49] <seb128> bryceh, hey, got a minute?
[07:49] <didrocks> heh :)
[07:50] <bryceh> seb128, I've several minutes, but am well past EOD with not a lot of brain energy, so if you have Q's keep to easy ones :-)
[07:51] <seb128> bryceh, mostly wanted to check that I've all the blueprints you signed for,are working on listed
[07:51] <bryceh> seb128, which blueprints am I signed for?
[07:52] <seb128> bryceh, I've those on my list
[07:52] <seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-multi-monitor
[07:52] <seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-libxrandr-utils
[07:52] <bryceh> mm
[07:52] <seb128> that and normal day to day xorg work
[07:52] <seb128> is that accurate?
[07:52] <bryceh> sure
[07:52] <pitti> more like "night to night" :)
[07:52] <bryceh> actually the multi-monitor one I don't think there's really anything to do
[07:52] <pitti> hey bryceh
[07:52] <ricotz> didrocks, this bug gets pretty nasty over time ;)
[07:52] <bryceh> it was more a design team session
[07:53] <seb128> bryceh, it has still quite some attached bug that reflect on the chart
[07:53] <bryceh> but I'll scrape through the remaining mm bugs from last cycle and do some work on them
[07:53] <seb128> bryceh, do you plan to work on those, i.e should we track them?
[07:53] <ricotz> seb128, hi
[07:53] <seb128> ricotz, hey
[07:53] <bryceh> heya pitti
[07:53] <bryceh> seb128, do the bug reports actually reflect on the chart?
[07:54] <bryceh> seb128, like I said, I do plan to look at some bug reports for that, but most of the ones that are left are pretty hard
[07:54] <ricotz> pitti, bryceh, hi
[07:54] <seb128> bryceh, yes, see http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-desktop-team.html
[07:54] <pitti> hey ricotz, wie gehts?
[07:54] <seb128> bryceh, you have like 25 bugs assigned you that list coming from it
[07:54] <pitti> bryceh: bug reports linked to blueprints do count as WIs, yes
[07:55] <ricotz> pitti, danke gut, ich hoffe dir auch?
[07:55] <pitti> bryceh: if you want to not consider them WIs, please unlink them from the BP, and rather use tags
[07:55] <seb128> bryceh, seems like we should not track the spec for the cycle then but rather milestone some of the bugs?
[07:55] <pitti> ricotz: prima, danke
[07:55] <bryceh> seb128, huh, interesting, didn't know that.
[07:56] <seb128> bryceh, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-arsenal-report-enhancements also shows on the list, should it be assigned to you,drafted by you?
[07:57] <bryceh> seb128, well, it turned out for the multi-monitor bugs, like 10-20% are actual kernel or xorg problems, 30-40% were gnome issues, and the rest were unity.  And the xorg bugs that remain are all pretty tough things I'm unlikely to have much of an impact on.  We might see some of the unity issues sorted but they haven't specific heads allocated so it'll be kinda level-of-effort stuff.
[07:58] <bryceh> so, if the counts are affecting the desktop team stats, I think that's probably not really helping us.
[07:59] <bryceh> yes, the arsenal blueprint is active and I'm working on it.  That's all good.  :-)
[07:59] <seb128> bryceh, ok, I'm dropping the spec from the q goal and tracker, let's milestone bugs in the list we think we should work on for q
[07:59] <seb128> bryceh, the arsenal one lacks an owner, I will set you owner and drafter if that's fine?
[07:59] <bryceh> ok, that sounds good for the m-m bugs
[07:59] <bryceh> ok, I can take it as owner
[08:00] <bryceh> (ursula or kate would be the other logical owners, if you want to split assignments up.  but I expect I'll be doing most of the work there.)
[08:00] <seb128> bryceh, thanks!
[08:00] <seb128> bryceh, I'm done with my questions, enjoy your evening ;-)
[08:01] <bryceh> great, will do
[08:02] <bryceh> seb128, pitti btw, what are your thoughts on using blueprints to track large #'s of bugs?
[08:02] <bryceh> I sort of did it with the m-m blueprint as an experiment
[08:02] <pitti> bryceh: I like them if they are actually work items, i. e. they are essential for the blueprint to be considered "implemented"
[08:03] <pitti> bryceh: that one seemed more like "here's a pool of opportunities" to me
[08:03] <seb128> bryceh, I like better tagging, I'm not sure what the blueprint brings you if you don't track them on the team charts
[08:03] <pitti> which are better done with a tag IMHO
[08:03] <bryceh> reason I ask is I added some code to arsenal to generate reports of bp bugs, and am wondering if it's worth generalizing/maintaining.  I found it useful but kind of a PITA to manage.
[08:03] <pitti> selecting some bugs which we really must fix as WIs is fine, though
[08:04] <bryceh> pitti, seb128 do you think you see us linking large numbers of bugs to blueprints in the future (like >20 bugs)?
[08:04] <pitti> I don't
[08:04] <seb128> no
[08:04] <bryceh> then that's that :-)  thanks.
[08:04] <seb128> I think we should rather use milestones and tagging for bugs
[08:05] <bryceh> yeah generating reports from tags is a lot simpler
[08:05] <seb128> ok, I need to run for half an hour, bbiab
[08:05] <bryceh> although in the multi-monitor case, tags would cover a rather intimidating breadth of bugs
[08:05] <seb128> RAOF, you own us drafting of those specs ;-)
[08:05] <seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-xorg-general
[08:05] <seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-mono-aot
[08:05] <seb128> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-xorg-usb-video-support
[08:06] <seb128> RAOF, would be nice if you could get to them tomorrow, they are the only ones not drafted for the team I think
[08:06] <seb128> RAOF, I will catch up with you later
[08:06] <seb128> need to run, bbiab
[08:09] <Sweetshark> seb128: so, since you are our lead now, do you also do the exciting stuff like uploading libreoffice SRUs?
[08:26]  * Sweetshark just got a offer for old corporate notebooks: lenovo t400 intel p8600/4GB RAM for 232 EUR anyone interested?
[08:33] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:37] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:40] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[08:43] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti seb128 didrocks
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i'm good thanks, how are you?
[08:43] <seb128> Sweetshark, you didn't apply for packageset uploads for libreoffice yet?
[08:44] <seb128> we should get chrisccoulson apply for upload right, he could sponsor your libreoffice uploads, between people working on slow to build packages ;-)
[08:44] <chrisccoulson> heh
[08:45] <Sweetshark> seb128: i did and was denied. Feel free to hunt down those responsible and let them handle all the uploads. ;)
[08:45] <seb128> doh, what was the reason?
[08:45] <seb128> Sweetshark, well in any case if you have uploads to get sponsored just mention them on the channel, there are enough uploaders there
[08:46] <Sweetshark> seb128: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-03-26-19.03.log.html
[08:47] <dpm> hey all, good morning I was wondering if someone could give me a hand with this: for a few weeks I'Ve had a problem whereby wifi passwords are not added to my keyring, so in my home network every time I resume from suspend or restart the computer I'm asked for the wireless password. Any ideas what it could be?
[08:49] <rickspencer3> bonjour seb128
[08:50] <seb128> rickspencer3, salut, ca va bien ?
[08:50] <rickspencer3> très bien, merci, et tois?
[08:50] <seb128> rickspencer3, je vais bien merci !
[08:50] <rickspencer3> seb128, do you know if there is a new version of PIL that we should pick up for 12.04.1?
[08:50] <seb128> dpm, can you edit your keyring fine from seahorse?
[08:51] <rickspencer3> it seems like the current version is in some kind of transition:
[08:51] <rickspencer3> I just found bug #1003302
[08:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1003302 in python-imaging "AttributeError: getmask from in ImageDraw.py called from ImageDraw2.text() " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1003302
[08:51] <rickspencer3> it made me wonder if there was a newer version upstream that we should pick up
[08:53] <dpm> seb128, it seems so, I can delete entries from the default 'login' keyring at least
[08:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, no newer version that I know about and Debian has the same version as we have
[08:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, hmm, ok
[08:54] <rickspencer3> I might have to fix it up a bit for them then
[08:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, doko is the Debian maintainer for it, maybe check with him?
[08:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, ack
[08:54] <seb128> dpm, do you get any error in .xsession-errors or on the command line if your run nm-applet there?
[08:55] <seb128> Sweetshark, that log is weird, it seems you got acked, like 3 pro, 2 without opinion, 1 con
[08:56] <seb128> Laney, hey
[08:56] <seb128> Laney, there?
[08:57] <Laney> yes, applications need +4 to pass
[08:57] <seb128> Laney, was there any minute of that meeting?
[08:58] <seb128> Laney, I don't find them in my email client
[08:58] <Laney> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/TeamReports/12/March
[08:59] <seb128> Laney, do you have any hint of what was missing in his application?
[08:59] <seb128> Laney, like when to reapply?
[09:00] <Laney> I think people were concerned about knowledge of dpkg details, like missing Replaces and so on
[09:00] <seb128> Laney, I still find weird that endorsements from trusted people and over a cycle of maintaining a difficult package is not enough for the DMB
[09:01] <Laney> so when that is addressed
[09:01] <Laney> I guess people reviewed some uploads and weren't comfortable with what they saw :-/
[09:02] <seb128> Laney, uploads that were sponsored by "trusted" maintainers
[09:02] <seb128> i.e it seems we make applicants pay for disagreement between people who already have upload rights
[09:03] <seb128> i.e those uploads were good enough for pitti didrocks or me but at the end the dmb judges that we don't know good enough?
[09:03] <Laney> well the DMB isn't there for rubber stamping, nor really for calling out the judgement of other developers
[09:03] <seb128> I mean I'm fine with having obvious concerns
[09:04] <Laney> members are there to come to conclusions about the applicants, based on endorsements, their own reviews and the candidate's application/interview
[09:04] <seb128> but reading the meeting log seems there was no solid material there
[09:04] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, please read the debian documentation on replaces use and reapply for the next meeting
[09:05] <seb128> Sweetshark, it seems like one of those phase of the moon decision, like you got +3 maybe with the same application at the next meeting you get +4 ;-)
[09:06] <seb128> Sweetshark, I see nothing really missing in your application, just micahg put a -1 and said he would explain later but the minutes don't have his rational
[09:06] <seb128> and he was the only against it
[09:06] <Laney> if it comes up again then we'll all look at the recent uploads to make sure there weren't any issues coming from them
[09:07] <dpm> seb128, I didn't get any error messages from running nm-applet on the command line, and here's my .xsession-errors file https://pastebin.canonical.com/66563/ - I couldn't see anything obvious apart from the "No keyring secrets found for Auto <my SSID>/802-11-wireless-security" message
[09:07] <Laney> IIRC there were things like broken upgrades and it was felt that some additional review would be beneficial
[09:07] <seb128> dpm, check with cyphermox when he's online
[09:08] <Laney> It's just a chance to get some more mentorship, not the end of the world really
[09:08] <dpm> ok, thanks seb128
[09:08] <seb128> Laney, hey, it just doesn't feel really useful when at this point his sponsor just dput for him
[09:08] <seb128> Laney, it seems a waste of time for us and for him
[09:09] <seb128> Laney, can we ask the dmb to do some sponsoring? it seems you guys are picky over what other people are so maybe it would be good to change from his "usual" sponsors?
[09:10] <Laney> well I don't know about that, but using the patch pilots might be a good idea?
[09:10] <seb128> Laney, it would if somebody was wanting to review,sponsor libreoffice
[09:10] <seb128> we can try but my gut feeling is that it will sit in the queue for a month
[09:10] <seb128> and we don't want to take a month delay waiting for upload
[09:11] <Laney> they are supposed to be pingable
[09:11] <Laney> it is troubling if nobody can review an upload though, because it means that there's no beneficial peer review happening
[09:12] <Sweetshark> seb128: he explained later that his point was that i didnt came up with "package need to be rebuild when you have a SONAME bump". I took that for granted, so wondered what was asked from me (besides it being midnight by that time and me being bored after standing in line for three freaking hours ...)
[09:12] <seb128> Laney, most people don't feel competent to review such packages :-(
[09:12] <Laney> :(
[09:12] <Sweetshark> seb128: ^^ he being micahg
[09:12] <pitti> Laney: that's by and large true for LibO, I'm afraid; when I sponsor, I give a coarse check to the packaging changes, but nobody except Sweetshark really understands that beast..
[09:13] <seb128> Laney, I've to admit most of libreoffice packaging is magic to me, which is why I tend to just have a look and dput
[09:13] <pitti> so yeah, bus factor == 1 and all that..
[09:14] <Sweetshark> pitti: well, just hire _rene_ in the bus factor case ;>
[09:15] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, it seems like you should apply again in the next dmb meeting
[09:15] <Sweetshark> seb128: *grumble*
[09:16] <pitti> Sweetshark: I bet he's desperately waiting for that!
[09:16] <mlankhorst> Hm, I'm still not showing up in http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/people.html
[09:16]  * Sweetshark wonders if can write a bot to attend the DMB for him next time.
[09:17] <pitti> mlankhorst: hm, you do appear in http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/canonical-desktop-team.html
[09:17] <seb128> mlankhorst, you are?
[09:18] <seb128> oh, no, not on the people page
[09:18] <seb128> but you are on the team page
[09:18] <seb128> seems like the people page doesn't like nicknames
[09:18] <seb128> i.e rickspencer3 isn't on it either
[09:19] <seb128> or desrt
[09:19] <pitti> indeed, seems the team pages have real names mostly, but lp identifiers for some only
[09:21] <mlankhorst> hm ;s
[09:21] <mlankhorst> my launchpad identifier == irc nick at least
[09:22] <mlankhorst> seb128: yeah there is a link there, but it 404s
[09:24] <seb128> mlankhorst, I'm not sure what's the issue but it's not specific to you
[09:24] <seb128> not sure what is different between people listed by name and by nickname
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> oh, pitti won't be happy that firefox grew by 1MB ;)
[09:25] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it did? again?!
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, that's a consequence of the optimization change
[09:25] <seb128> chrisccoulson, the pgo thing?
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah
[09:27] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you measure the performance difference?
[09:27] <pitti> chrisccoulson: well, we have 70 additional MB for quantal's images to spend
[09:27] <chrisccoulson> seb128, not yet. that's another of my WI's :)
[09:27] <seb128> Sweetshark, btw do you have a libreoffice SRU to get sponsored or did you just ask for next time?
[09:27] <pitti> chrisccoulson, Sweetshark, barry: fight over them!
[09:27] <chrisccoulson> pitti, that's good news. thanks ;)
[09:29] <seb128> TheMuso, there?
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> seb128, i just ran sunspider in the quantal build of firefox, and compared it to my non-PGO nightly build. some tests are ~10% faster
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> although, that's between different versions of firefox. i should compare the same versions really
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> but that means compiling a new build
[09:35] <Sweetshark> seb128: it will be there in a few minutes ...
[09:35] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok
[09:37] <Sweetshark> pitti: those extra MBs are mine ... MINE ...
[09:38]  * Sweetshark spits and mumbles "my preciousssss"
[09:38] <pitti> whoever comes first will take it :)
[09:39] <pitti> 12 MB have already been claimed
[09:39] <pitti> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/20120522/
[09:39] <pitti> actually, 15 on i386
[09:43] <chrisccoulson> brb, switching to gnome shell for a moment
[09:43] <seb128> pitti, does that include bringing french back,
[09:43] <pitti> seb128: quick, seed it!
[09:43] <pitti> actually, please do that now
[09:44] <pitti> seb128: we cut off so many languages in the past cycles that it seems only fair to put back some
[09:44] <seb128> pitti, will do, thanks ;-)
[09:44] <Sweetshark> pitti: claiming space for presenter-console (~350kB), ogltrans (~70kB), pdf-import (~550kB) and presentation-minimizer (~300kB) plus a few MB reserve for natural growth between 3.5.X and 3.6.X
[09:45] <pitti> harmless
[09:46] <Sweetshark> pitti: will you add them to the seed then?
[09:47] <pitti> Sweetshark: if you have the actual package names somewhere (or better, send a branch or patch)
[09:47] <pitti> oh, just libreoffice-*
[10:11] <Sweetshark> seb128: please find libreoffice_3.4.4-0ubuntu2_source.changes for oneiric-proposed on chinstrap. note that there is a 1:3.4.5-0ubuntu1 currently in oneiric-proposed, which failed to be SRUed because of regression bug 919659 ...
[10:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 919659 in libreoffice "Can't open/save document or spreadsheet with password, when mozilla profile has an absolute path" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/919659
[10:38] <chrisccoulson> right, closing some apps down to do some more scientific benchmarking ;)
[10:39] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have a problem with building CUPS 1.5.3
[12:10] <tkamppeter> pitti, problem solved.
[12:16] <pitti> re
[12:16] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, good
[12:25] <tkamppeter> pitti, CUPS 1.5.3 is ready for Quantal and Debian, on the BZR.
[12:25] <pitti> tkamppeter: cool, thanks!
[12:29] <pitti> tkamppeter: I'll remove the postinst/rm handling for removing the not-obsolete-any-more blacklist conffilel
[12:41] <bcurtiswx> mornin'
[12:52] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
[13:02] <tkamppeter> pitti, blacklist conffile removal removed in maint scripts. Now the package is ready.
[13:02] <pitti> tkamppeter: err, I did that already, as I said
[13:02] <pitti> tkamppeter: it's uploading already
[13:02] <tkamppeter> pitti, then you did not bzr push it.
[13:03] <pitti> no, I was test-building first
[13:03] <pitti> anyway, no harm
[13:04] <tkamppeter> pitti, so if you have something to push (so that we are in sync again), do it now, so that I can prepare the SRU.
[13:05] <pitti> almost there (I'm in bzr bd still)
[13:07] <pitti> tkamppeter: pushed (had to use --overwrite, sorry)
[13:08] <pitti> tkamppeter: and uploaded to unstable and quantal
[13:11] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
[13:12] <seb128> pitti, can we get versions downgraded in proposed? like if something 3.5 is uploaded, has issues, can we reject and reupload a 3.4 version?
[13:12] <pitti> seb128: if it's in the queue, yes; if it's accepted into -proposed, no
[13:13] <seb128> Sweetshark, ^ so your libreoffice new SRU 3.4.4-0ubuntu2 can't go in since we have 3.4.5-0ubuntu1 which got accepted there
[13:13] <pitti> uploads to queues do not have any version check at all; that only happens on accept
[13:13] <seb128> pitti, right, that's what I though, thanks!
[13:13] <seb128> pitti, so Sweetshark can't SRU back a lower version of lo to oneiric without tweaking the versions
[13:14] <pitti> right
[13:14] <pitti> either make 3.4.5 work, or upload 3.4.5+really3.4.4-0ubuntu2
[13:17] <seb128> slomo, hey, have you seen bugs like bug #956830 recently?
[13:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 956830 in rhythmbox "playback pauses after two songs, even with repeat enabled" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956830
[13:17] <seb128> slomo, basically we are receiving bug reports about rb or banshee stop playing when changing song (seems to happen especially when the songs are in different format, i.e going from a mp3 to a ogg)
[13:18] <seb128> slomo, since different player have the issue I wonder if that's a gstreamer bug
[13:27] <slomo> seb128: with gapless playback?
[13:28] <seb128> slomo, we have one bug which is with gapless playback for sure, I'm not sure that's the case of that one as well, I've asked that this morning when triaging it
[13:28] <seb128> slomo, but from your question I guess it's a known issue with gapless? ;-)
[13:29] <slomo> seb128: no, but gapless feature of playbin2 is broken in many, many ways
[13:30] <seb128> slomo, that doesn't seem encouraging ;-)
[13:30] <seb128> slomo, do you recommend we advice users to not turn it on?
[13:30] <seb128> slomo, is there any chance to see some of those issues fixed in the current 0.10 version?
[13:31] <slomo> i don't expect that anybody fixes this in 0.10 anymore
[13:31] <slomo> it's almost impossible to fix in 0.10
[13:31] <slomo> it's still broken in 1.0 (actually a bit worse), but at least it can be fixed there
[13:31] <seb128> slomo, should be recommend not using gapless playback then? i.e maybe drop the option from the rb ui if that's a known broken option?
[13:33] <slomo> seb128: i think rhythmbox does it's own magic anyway :) but in banshee at least it's disabled by default
[13:34] <seb128> slomo, ok, thanks, I will check if they all have gapless on and if they don't I will come back ;-)
[13:35] <slomo> seb128: ok, thanks :)
[13:36] <seb128> slomo, thank you for the replies ;-)
[13:38] <pitti> tkamppeter: uh, does cups use C++? we got an FTBFS on armel and armhf with https://launchpadlibrarian.net/105889579/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-armhf.cups_1.5.3-1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[13:38] <pitti> about a new symbol appearing in libcupsppdc1, but only on arm
[13:47] <tkamppeter> pitti, CUPS uses C++ for some few executables.
[13:49] <tkamppeter> pitti, for ppdc and for cups-driverd.
[13:49] <tkamppeter> pitti, the rest is plain C.
[13:57] <cyphermox> seb128: dpm: what's the issue?
[13:57] <seb128> cyphermox, hey
[13:57] <cyphermox> hey
[13:58] <cyphermox> sorry for the late reply, I'm still fighting this annoying RDNSS bug
[13:58] <seb128> cyphermox, dpm's nm-applet fails to store wiki passwords in the keyring it seems (i.e it ask for the password every time)
[13:58] <cyphermox> oh ok
[13:58] <dpm> hi cyphermox, thanks for coming back to me: I've got an issue whereby my wifi passwords are not being stored in the keyring
[13:58] <cyphermox> dpm: is the connection set to "available to all users" ?
[13:58] <dpm> so I need to type them again every time I log i
[13:58] <dpm> let me check
[14:00] <cyphermox> I'd edit the connection, make sure it's not set if you want the password to be in keyring rather than in the config file, and set the password directly in the security tab for that connection
[14:00] <dpm> cyphermox, the checkbox is grayed out, so I cannot edit it, but it's not ticked
[14:00] <cyphermox> s/(it's not set)/\1 to available to all users/
[14:00] <cyphermox> oh wow
[14:01] <dpm> I don't know what caused this, I just noticed a few weeks ago, but the level of annoyance was not too high as to start looking why. Now it's reached that level :)
[14:01] <cyphermox> dpm: did you ever change user names?
[14:02] <dpm> I didn't, no
[14:03] <cyphermox> I don't know what might have caused it, but I'm guessing something isn't right in the permissions field in the /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections file for your connection (should have the same name as the connection itself)
[14:04] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have uploaded the CUPS package to -proposed now.
[14:04] <cyphermox> permissions ought to be permissions=user:<username>:;
[14:04]  * dpm looks at the file
[14:05] <Sweetshark> seb128: meh. thats really ugly. so we have precise-proposed to guard precise from ugly stuff, and now we have it transcending into precise still? /me doesnt like that, will do 3.4.5+really3.4.4-0ubuntu2, hoping nothing in rules does fancy magic with the version string ...
[14:06] <seb128> Sweetshark, can't you get the 3.4.5 regression fixed?
[14:06] <seb128> Sweetshark, nothing reached precise there
[14:06] <seb128> it's only proposed
[14:07] <dpm> cyphermox, there doesn't seem to be a permissions field in my /etc/NetworkManager/system-connections, it's just a list of wifi network SSIDs
[14:08] <cyphermox> dpm: yeah, sorry, I mean in the file that matches your connection
[14:09] <cyphermox> it's a directory
[14:09] <Sweetshark> seb128: yikes, I meant oneiric/oneiric-proposed ...
[14:10] <seb128> Sweetshark, yeah, me as well, but things just did reach proposed, they didn't move to updates ... can't you just get the 3.4.5 regression fixed?
[14:11] <Sweetshark> seb128: the 3.4.5 regression is a bit tricky -- its fixed in 3.5.4, but I dont know how hard it is to backport that one to 3.4. keep in mind, we completely exchanged the buildsystem (getting rid of go-oo) ..
[14:12] <seb128> Sweetshark, can't we just revert the 3.4.4->3.4.5 commit that created the regression?
[14:13] <Sweetshark> seb128: nah, thats exchanging the way we use nss -- I guess it is not trivial either ...
[14:14] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok, so yeah, I guess you need to trick the versionning
[14:15] <Sweetshark> seb128: I will give it a try.
[14:15] <seb128> Sweetshark, do you need to get any SRU out?
[14:15] <seb128> Sweetshark, or can we just delete the proposed version and keep oneiric put?
[14:16] <dpm> cyphermox, here's what my file looks like for that connection, the permissions look right to me: https://pastebin.canonical.com/66592/
[14:16] <cyphermox> yeah that looks right. so why can't you set "available to all users"?
[14:16] <cyphermox> (question to myself, really)
[14:16] <dpm> :-)
[14:18] <Sweetshark> seb128: Im not quite sure I get you, so: I do not intend to SRU 3.4.5 for oneiric anymore because of the regression. So if we can somehow delete 3.4.5 in oneiric-proposed and SRU the 3.4.4-0ubuntu2 with the minimal fix, I would be happy.
[14:18] <seb128> Sweetshark, so there is something you want to SRU
[14:18] <seb128> Sweetshark, I was suggesting deleting the proposed version and let oneiric as it is
[14:19] <seb128> Sweetshark, but yeah, if you want to SRU something in oneiric still we will need to tweak the version
[14:20] <Sweetshark> seb128: nah, not SRU at all isnt good -- even though everybody sane is on precise, this has to go in.
[14:20]  * Sweetshark goes tweaking ...
[14:20] <seb128> ok
[14:20] <seb128> Sweetshark, I tend to have little interest in n-1 stable versions especially when current stable is a lts
[14:21] <seb128> but if you to fix oneiric bugs still I will not stop you ;-)
[14:24] <cyphermox> dpm: you should still be able to edit the connection's password in the wireless security tab and set it there, it should be remembered
[14:25] <dpm> cyphermox, ok, let me try that and I'll report back next time I log out and back in. Thanks!
[14:42] <Sweetshark> seb128: wouldnt 3.4.5+really3.4.4-0ubuntu2 normally fail because there are already 3.4.5 upstream tarballs in oneiric-proposed?
[14:42] <seb128> Sweetshark, you need a libreoffice_3.4.5+really3.4.4.orig.tar.gz
[14:42] <seb128> Sweetshark, it redo a full source upload with the 3.4.4 tarball renamed
[14:43] <Sweetshark> seb128: a ok, the + is still part of the upstream.
[14:43] <seb128> yes
[14:44] <Sweetshark> I think it would have worked out anyway in this case IIRC because I reused the 3.4.4 tarballs and patch the diff to 3.4.5 un top of it, but like that it is even better ...
[14:50] <dobey> pitti: hi! can you pocket-copy a couple packages to quantal for me? and if possible, accept a couple into precise-proposed as well? :)
[14:58] <pitti> re
[14:58] <pitti> dobey: from where?
[14:59] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have uploaded the CUPS SRU.
[15:00] <dobey> pitti: libubuntuone and ubuntuone-client-gnome from precise-proposed; and ubuntuone-client and ubuntuone-control-panel still need to be accepted to precise-prposed and pocket-copied to quantal as well
[15:00] <pitti> ah, these will reguarly go into quantal when moving them to -updates
[15:01] <dobey> pitti: ah ok
[15:02] <pitti> dobey: oh, libubuntuone is not arch: all, so that needs an upload
[15:04] <dobey> ok
[15:04] <dobey> and ubuntuone-client-gnome and ubuntuone-client also i guess
[15:05] <pitti> anything which is not pure python, yes
[15:05] <dobey> :-/
[15:13] <dobey> also
[15:13] <dobey> does *anyone* reliably hit bug #853060 at all?
[15:13] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 853060 in ubuntuone-installer/trunk "ubuntuone-installer crashed with GError in function(): Failed to execute child process "ubuntuone-control-panel-gtk" (No such file or directory)" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/853060
[15:30] <mvo> seb128: silly(?) question, but gnome-session ensure that on logout the users processes get killed, including stuff like ubuntu-sso-client?
[15:30] <seb128> mvo, no, nothing to that
[15:31] <seb128> to->do
[15:31] <seb128> mvo, we often have services still running after logout
[15:31] <seb128> well "often", we had bugs over time about that for i.e pulseaudio, gvfs, eds
[15:31] <seb128> mvo, session closing is not very well organized
[15:32] <seb128> you can't just stop everything running, some processes are meant to run over session (i.e screen)
[15:32] <mvo> seb128: right
[15:33]  * mvo scratches head
[15:44] <mvo> seb128: so what is killing e.g. the dbus session bus on logout?
[15:45] <pitti> seb128: the pygobject update has been in -proposed for a while, and it got one confirmation that it fixes a bug; did you happen to run into any problems with PyGI programs such as update-notifier, apport, or software-center?
[15:45] <seb128> mvo, not sure, maybe it's going away with xorg?
[15:46] <seb128> pitti, no problem here no
[15:46] <seb128> pitti, I can do a round of checking and comment on the bug in a bit if you want
[15:46] <pitti> seb128: that'd be great; I already tested some bits, but as I uploaded it it wouldn't be four-eyes
[15:46] <mvo> seb128: right, the context is bug #711413 which is top in errors.ubuntu.com and I have a approach that is relying on that *something* will eventually kill it, but I simply have no clue if that is the case nor if I can actually find a way to reproduce it
[15:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 711413 in ubuntu-sso-client "ubuntu-sso-login crashed with DBusException in __new__(): org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoServer: Failed to connect to socket /tmp/dbus-zPW5jjeWfI: Connection refused" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/711413
[15:47] <seb128> mvo, desrt might know better?
[15:50] <pitti> seb128: bug 999711, FYI
[15:50] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 999711 in pygobject "pygobject 3.2.2 stable update" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999711
[15:50] <seb128> pitti, danke
[15:53] <seb128> kenvandine, doing a g-c-c SRU?
[15:53] <kenvandine> no
[15:53] <kenvandine> did i create bug mail?
[15:53] <kenvandine> :)
[15:54] <seb128> kenvandine, yeah, launchpad is a bit stupid
[15:54] <seb128> kenvandine, it notified the bugs from the recent SRU that https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu/precise/gnome-control-center/precise is listing them
[15:55] <kenvandine> sigh
[15:57] <pitti> good night everyone!
[15:58] <kenvandine> good night pitti
[15:58] <mvo> dobey: hey, could you give me a hint how syncdaemon known when to exist or what makes it exit on session logout? context is 711413
[15:58] <mvo> good night pitti
[15:59] <seb128> 'night pitti
[16:16] <dobey> mvo: ubuntuone-login checks that credentials are stored, then starts syncdaemon. and on log out i think it just exits after dbus is gone
[16:17] <mvo> aha, that makes sense, thanks
[16:18] <jcastro> seb128: heya, any word on that bamf fix for webapps?
[16:21] <jcastro> seb128: I'm referring to https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/692462
[16:21] <didrocks> jcastro: it's getting there, pushing popey a lot on getting a release :)
[16:21] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 692462 in bamf "unity confused with chrome/chromium web apps" [High,Fix committed]
[16:22] <jcastro> whoa, popey maintains bamf now?
[16:22] <popey> welcome to my world
[16:22] <didrocks> he's supposed to maintain all my packages
[16:22] <didrocks> jcastro: then, I retire and profit :)
[16:22] <didrocks> (bamf was on my basket)
[16:23] <jcastro> ok, excellent!
[16:25] <micahg> seb128: do you want to discuss firefox testing, not sure how much time I have right now?
[16:37] <micahg> seb128: actually, I should be back to a fairly normal schedule tomorrow, let's try then
[16:52]  * Sweetshark (hopefully) has two ppas during LibreOffice builds ... just need an 3.6/quantal testbuild for a hattrick now.
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i really want to make smooth scrolling work in firefox
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> i wonder if it's worth implementing that outside of the ongoing work to switch to gtk3 :/
[18:17] <dobey> i thought firefox already had smooth scrolling
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> dobey, kind of, but not really
[18:19] <chrisccoulson> it's synthetic smooth scrolling triggered from the old button press events
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> you notice it if you try to scroll a small amount on a touchpad
[18:20] <dobey> i noticed it anyway, which is why i always turned it off
[18:20] <dobey> :)
[18:41] <seb128> micahg, still there?
[19:06] <ayan> does anyone know the ccsm and gconf (so for both unity and unity 2d) keys for configuring the cycle windows key sequence?
[19:08] <dobey> ayan: one of the things under /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/
[19:08] <dobey> i forget what it's called exactly
[19:13] <ayan> thank you!
[19:16] <dobey> sure
[19:18] <topyli> does unity still use gconf? why? because of compiz obsolescense?
[19:19] <topyli> (i just happen to like gnome-shell so i haven't really kept up with these things)
[19:19] <seb128> topyli, because the compiz gsettings code was not tested enough to be shipped in a lts, there is a gsettings backend and it will be used this cycle
[19:19] <topyli> :)
[19:19] <topyli> seb128: ok, good. thanks
[19:19] <dobey> also, metacity still uses gconf
[19:19] <topyli> oh there is that
[19:20] <chrisccoulson> beer time!
[19:20] <topyli> cheers chrisccoulson
[19:20] <dobey> chrisccoulson: it better be in the mail!
[19:25] <topyli> i hate to sound like a troll, but i'm going to. why are we using compiz in the first place to build unity?
[19:28] <topyli> another queston, who else still supports compiz?
[19:29] <topyli> (i do know gnome never did)
[19:30] <seb128> topyli, what else would you use?
[19:31] <seb128> topyli, unity was based on mutter for one cycle
[19:31] <seb128> but at the time it had too many issue and pulling into different direction from GNOME
[19:31] <topyli> i don't really have an answer to that, maybe mutter like gnome does
[19:32] <topyli> or the E libraries
[19:32] <seb128> it's better today but it's hard to rebase on different techs
[19:32] <seb128> well compiz was the best option by then
[19:32] <topyli> yeah, i can understand that
[19:32] <seb128> things might change again in a wayland world ;-)
[19:32] <topyli> what if ubuntu will end up maintaining it alone though?
[19:32] <seb128> but until then it's less costy to fix compiz that to change techs
[19:32] <topyli> oh yes there is wayland
[19:33] <seb128> well, "end up" is not going to be years and years before everybody goes to wayland
[19:33] <seb128> so compiz is the best alternative until then
[19:33] <seb128> i.e let's not spend tons of efforts on a stack which is being deprecated
[19:34] <topyli> i trust you more than my own judgement on this
[19:34] <topyli> just asking :)
[19:34] <seb128> yeah, no worry, you basically got a summary for the reasons ;-)
[19:34] <topyli> thanks :)
[19:35] <dobey> i don't think switching stacks is as difficult as some people make it sound
[19:36] <dobey> seb128: i thought we were switching to wayling in 12.10 with system compisitor magic ;)
[19:36] <seb128> dobey, it's not as easy as you make it sound either when compiz has to be in the wm for driver limitation reasons ;-)
[19:36] <seb128> ups
[19:36] <seb128> compiz->unity
[19:36] <dobey> seb128: you're assuming compiz is the only thing we're using right now :)
[19:37] <seb128> dobey, no, I meant the shell, dash, etc
[19:37] <dobey> seb128: right, and there are 2 versions of it, one which doesn't depend on compiz, or necessarily the wm, at all
[19:37] <seb128> dobey, like when they consider using unity2d by default they ended up in "needs to put qml in the wm to be able to do the effects"
[19:38] <seb128> dobey, no, they spent a month looking at that, there is just no way to do what they want out of the wm with the current xorg,drivers stack
[19:38] <dobey> is qt really that broken that it can't use whatever compisitor is running to do the effects?
[19:38] <seb128> dobey, not that current 3d trunk has a standalone mode as well
[19:38] <seb128> note
[19:39] <dobey> so i can use it without compiz?
[19:39] <seb128> dobey, the issue is not the compositors, it's the drivers
[19:39] <seb128> dobey, https://code.launchpad.net/~gordallott/unity/standalone-unity/+merge/106844
[19:39] <seb128> dobey, I guess you can try, should be as good as 2d (once bugs are fixed maybe though)
[19:40] <dobey> i have had 100% more driver problems with 3d, than with 2d :)
[19:40] <dobey> anyway
[19:40] <seb128> well 2d does a lot less as well
[19:40] <seb128> like tooltips are grey ugly backgrounds on the launcher
[19:40] <dobey> that was more a general statement
[19:41] <dobey> like, my laptop doesn't run anything in 3d
[19:41] <topyli> one of my machines can't run 3d either. it doesn't run gnome-shell either though
[19:41] <dobey> seb128: anyway, go do something else! :)
[19:42] <topyli> i've always assumed this is a kernel issue
[19:42] <seb128> dobey, yeah, I'm about to ;-)
[19:44] <topyli> i already poured myself a beer and opened the tv. i think this was a good plan
[19:56] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i'll be really glad to finish all this benchmarking this evening
[21:20] <jbicha> dobey: actually metacity uses gsettings too as of 2.34.2
[22:06] <TheMuso> seb128: i'm around now.
[22:55] <chrisccoulson> can somebody please go to http://chrome.angrybirds.com/ in firefox in quantal, and tell me if you see an empty canvas (with content flickering in to view occasionally on mouseover)?
[22:57] <MrChrisDruif> I think that is to be expected? It's CHROME.angrybirds.com for a reason chrisccoulson
[22:57] <chrisccoulson> MrChrisDruif, no, it works fine in firefox
[22:57] <chrisccoulson> but not when built with gcc4.7 here
[22:57] <chrisccoulson> i just want to make sure it's not just my machine
[22:59] <MrChrisDruif> HD is not working, SD sort of
[23:01] <chrisccoulson> MrChrisDruif, thanks. what video driver are you using?
[23:01] <MrChrisDruif> Ati with open source drivers
[23:01] <MrChrisDruif> More specific?
[23:01] <chrisccoulson> no, that's ok. thanks
[23:23] <chrisccoulson> man, this is depressing. i think i should just switch back to the old toolchain
[23:25] <TheMuso> ...and sometimes people wonder why I don't like C++. :)
[23:34] <RAOF> Ok, you want to remove apt. I see now is not the ideal time to dist-upgrade.
[23:38] <TheMuso> RAOF: Suggest pulling from a.u.c or something closer to the source...
[23:38] <TheMuso> I just recently updated my local mirror and dist-upgraded, without issue.
[23:38] <RAOF> I *am* pulling from a.u.c
[23:39] <TheMuso> hrm ok, my mirror must have just missed the update that brought this horrendous change.
[23:39]  * RAOF always has the internode mirror, followed by a.u.c in his sources.list
[23:39] <TheMuso> Right.