[13:47] <tristenw> morning/afternoon everyone
[13:56] <balloons> howdy
[14:00] <balloons> morning everyone..
[14:00] <balloons> shall we begin?
[14:00] <balloons> #startmeeting QA community
[14:00] <meetingology`> Meeting started Wed May 23 14:00:25 2012 UTC.  The chair is balloons. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[14:00] <meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[14:00] <balloons> who all is about on this fine day?
[14:00] <tristenw>  YO
[14:01] <skaet> o/
[14:02]  * gema hides
[14:02] <balloons> hehe
[14:02] <balloons> alright, this meeting is mostly going to be about sharing plans and talking about goals for the cycle
[14:03] <balloons> We have no previous actions, so let's start with ubuntu
[14:03] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Updates
[14:04] <balloons> gema, would you care to start off and talk about your team's plans?
[14:04] <balloons> you don't need to worry about being exhaustive :-0
[14:04] <gema> hahaha, no worries
[14:04] <gema> I can summarize it quite neatly: we are going to improve automated testing
[14:05] <gema> how?
[14:05] <gema> well, we keep working on UTAH and will start using it in the lab soon
[14:05] <gema> we've improved the lab and installed a massive openstack, we are calling it QA Stack
[14:05] <gema> and we will be trying to convey all the test results and new testing we start doing more effectively
[14:06] <gema> by reporting results to the tracker as well
[14:06] <gema> we are also going to start having the team meetings on youtube
[14:06] <gema> just in case people are curious what we are up to
[14:06] <gema> g+ streaming to youtube
[14:07] <gema> and I have a suggestion to you nick, we could do the same with this meeting
[14:07] <gema> EOM
[14:07] <balloons> gema, thanks for the update.. So where might I get to see your meetings on youtube?
[14:08] <balloons> will you send a link out to the mailing list?
[14:08] <gema> balloons: I am talking to IS at the moment to get the whole thing set up
[14:08] <gema> balloons: I will let you know once it is up, I am not sure how it will look like
[14:08] <balloons> gotcha. Once you've trialed it out I'm open to ideas on doing the same on this meeting
[14:09] <gema> ack, will keep you posted
[14:09] <balloons> right now you would be seeing me and a puppy :-)
[14:09] <balloons> everyone loves puppies right?
[14:09] <gema> yes
[14:09] <tristenw> :)
[14:09] <balloons> :-)
[14:09] <gema> the nice thing about it is that people can join the hangout and drop when they finish talking
[14:09] <gema> and then the 10 people limit doesn't matter
[14:10] <gema> cos many can watch and whoever needs to talk can join
[14:10] <balloons> Ok, I guess I will also update before moving onto flavors. Does anyone have questions for gema before I give my speil?
[14:10] <gema> it's very cool
[14:11]  * gema goes to hide again
[14:11] <balloons> no questions? awesome. So on my end, I am still finalizing the last of the blueprints and decisions we made at UDS. I plan to blog once everything is complete. Should be sometime this week
[14:11] <balloons> However, here's a quick summary, of which I'm happy to take questions
[14:13] <balloons> I am remaining focused on manual testing this cycle -- and that is going to include iso, sru and application testing.
[14:14] <balloons> the feedback from UDS was to: improve the process, recognize contributors, avoid burnout
[14:15] <balloons> The biggest change is that we are going to use the isotracker software to handle running application testcases, sru's and do our testcase management
[14:16] <balloons> that should make everything easier. I'm going to continue and expand the adopt an iso program to ensure people are not getting burned out by having to do everything by themselves; especially at the increased cadence we would like to see. Also, we're focusing on ensuring our tests our meaningful and avoiding re-work
[14:18] <balloons> on the community front, I'm organizing a roundtable that we'll plan on doing once (perhaps twice?) a cycle to ensure we as a community (flavors teams, testing teams, etc) are all communicating and participating and helping each other as needed. As we learn best practices and create new tools, this will be an oppurtunity to share
[14:19] <balloons> we'll also be cleaning up and revitalizing a couple current launchpad teams to ensure membership is current and the folks are active.
[14:20] <balloons> I think that's hitting most of the high points.. There are other things we will look to accomplish, and I'm always open to ideas, so as ever feel free to contact me
[14:20] <balloons> any questions for me?
[14:21] <cesilko> has this membership confirmation been done in the past too?
[14:21] <balloons> cesilko, what do you mean membership confirmation?
[14:22] <balloons> you mean with the launchpad team cleanup?
[14:22] <cesilko> you said that you want to assure that folks are active
[14:22] <balloons> yes. Many launchpad teams have an expiration policy to ensure teams stay current and relevant
[14:22] <cesilko> I apologize if this is a dumb question, I am kind of a newbie here :)
[14:22] <balloons> no no -- great question
[14:23] <cesilko> okay, thanks for the answer
[14:23] <tristenw> I am curious as well, I know there was a drawn out discussion in the mail list
[14:23] <balloons> the idea is once a cycle (or whenever we wish), folks would be asked to click a link to renew membership in the team
[14:24] <cesilko> makes sense, great
[14:24] <balloons> people will come and go, and we want to make sure people on the team want to be on the team and are actively participating
[14:24] <cesilko> exactly, we do it too @ NetBeans
[14:24] <gema> balloons: just expire us all and wait until we come to you begging ;)
[14:26] <balloons> Ohh, I should also mention on the recognition front. I want to do a few things. First off, I want to make sure we as a community recognize each other's work. I think we are fairly successful at this. Secondly, I want to provide some swag, enhanced responsibility/opportunity for folks who demonstrate good work. This could mean getting some hardware to help test (if they don't have access to it), etc. Also, I want to clarify and help anyone who is
[14:26] <balloons>  contributing but is not a ubuntu member know that there QA contributions can be reognized towards membership
[14:27] <balloons> I myself am applying for membership, so if there are any ubuntu members who can speak for me, I would appreciate comments on my wiki page :-) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/balloons
[14:28] <balloons> so yea.. LOTS of opportunities this cycle.. I could type and type, but I will move on to flavor updates :-)
[14:29] <balloons> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Flavor Updates
[14:29] <balloons> ok, I know several flavors couldn't make it today
[14:29] <balloons> so I'll just call each one and see who is here
[14:29] <balloons> Xubuntu?
[14:30] <balloons> Kubuntu?
[14:30] <balloons> Lubuntu?
[14:31] <ScottK> Hello
[14:31] <balloons> Hi ScottK :-)
[14:31] <ScottK> Yesterday we uploaded KDE SC 4.8.3 to precise-proposed.
[14:31] <ScottK> That'll be a QA focus for us and we'd love to have more testers.
[14:31] <ScottK> ..
[14:32] <balloons> ScottK, the best way to get involved with kubuntu qa is to vist the #kubuntu channel yes?
[14:32] <ScottK> balloons: #kubuntu-devel.
[14:32] <ScottK> #kubuntu is user support.
[14:32] <balloons> ahh yes, sorry :-0
[14:32] <ScottK> We handle QA on the dev channel.
[14:32] <ScottK> No problem.
[14:32] <ScottK> It's still building, so don't go try to install it this very minute.
[14:33] <balloons> Any plans for the cycle surrounding QA? Any changes to testing ideas, iso testing, etc?
[14:33] <ScottK> I wasn't at UDS, so I'm not sure.
[14:33] <balloons> one of the things discussed at UDS was testcases for flavors
[14:33] <balloons> meaning writing the tests with the flavors in mind, and not using the generic ubuntu testcases.. not sure if kubuntu was going to pursue that or not
[14:33] <ScottK> I've found when doing ISO testing that I can figure out what I should test for Kubuntu based on the Ubuntu test case.
[14:34] <ScottK> Personally I'd expect it to be more work than it was worth.
[14:34] <ScottK> (I didn't discuss it with anyone thoug)
[14:34] <balloons> ScottK, gotcha. Thanks for the update
[14:34] <ScottK> h
[14:34] <balloons> don't worry we're not holding you to speaking for all of kubuntu :-0
[14:35] <balloons> ok, how's about edubuntu?
[14:36] <ScottK> Maybe adding a footnote or two to the existing Ubuntu test cases would do it.
[14:36] <ScottK> That'd be a lot less maintenance work, but still help out where people might be confused.
[14:36] <ScottK> Just a thought.
[14:37] <balloons> ScottK, well you would be able to clone the existing tests.. Something to talk about and think about over the cycle
[14:37] <ScottK> Right, but once it's cloned, then if the Ubuntu test gets updated, someone has to import the change into the Kubuntu test case.
[14:37] <balloons> yep,
[14:38] <ScottK> That's the maintenance burden that worries me.
[14:38] <ScottK> It'd be way smoother if we could do it without having to fork the test case.
[14:38] <gema> balloons: maybe we could tag test cases as to which flavours they apply
[14:38] <balloons> yes, it's something you will have to maintain
[14:38] <gema> balloons: that way the flavors that can actually use the test cases as is do not need to worry about the maintenance burden
[14:39] <gema> not me, the community
[14:39] <gema> we are talking manual testing, right?
[14:39] <balloons> gema, I'm not sure what you mean persay.. as of right now you get a link
[14:39] <balloons> you mean the testcase can apply to multiple flavors?
[14:39] <balloons> it's that way now
[14:39] <gema> now it is like that because it happens to be
[14:40] <gema> we could make it explicit, and therefore manageable
[14:40] <gema> we could tag the test cases as applicable to ubuntu, kubuntu and ubuntu studio , for instance
[14:40] <gema> and that test case will be one to take into account for those flavors in particular
[14:41] <gema> balloons: this is a burden on stgraber, because it is more implementation
[14:41] <gema> that's all
[14:41] <balloons> can you remember and bring it up next week when meeting with stgraber ?
[14:41] <gema> yes
[14:41] <balloons> thanks
[14:41] <balloons> ok, finally let's try and see if ubuntu studio has anyone about?
[14:41] <balloons> and then we can close out this topic
[14:43] <balloons> ok, great.
[14:43] <balloons> moving on
[14:43] <balloons> [TOPIC] Other topcis
[14:43] <balloons> my fat fingers.. :-)
[14:44] <balloons> basically, this is open to anything anyone wishes to discuss.. let me know and the floor is yours.
[14:44] <tristenw> !
[14:44] <balloons> yes tristenw go ahead
[14:44] <tristenw> I'm looking to switch from a testing perspective to coding, I just need someone to mentor me a little
[14:44] <tristenw> have python background already
[14:45] <balloons> tristenw, hehe.. do you like web programming and/or have messed with django?
[14:45] <tristenw> haven't no
[14:45] <balloons> If so, there's oppurtunities to help develop tools we as a QA community use
[14:45] <skaet> o/
[14:45] <tristenw> could learn I guess though
[14:45] <balloons> If your focusing on wanting to learn desktop apps, I can put you in touch with some folks on that end as well
[14:46] <tristenw> that would be superb, and I'll start working on django too
[14:46] <balloons> tristenw, send me an email afterwards and I'll get you hooked up
[14:46] <tristenw> k
[14:46] <balloons> yes skaet , go ahead
[14:47] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseSchedule
[14:47] <balloons> and thank you tristenw :-)
[14:47] <tristenw> yw
[14:47] <skaet> draft is getting pretty close to finalized now.
[14:47] <balloons> skaet, ahh yes.. good point to mention
[14:47] <skaet> if anyone has concerns about it,   email to ubuntu-release maillist.   :)
[14:48] <balloons> So if everyone has a look, you'll notice we have a column on that schedule
[14:48] <skaet> balloons,  actually thats:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock  :)
[14:48] <balloons> ohh.. you didn't send the big sheet link
[14:49] <skaet> I just pasted the master schedule first.    Now you've got the link to the "big one"  :)
[14:49] <balloons> skaet, thanks
[14:49] <balloons> so yes, please have a look. As a community, we're looking to perform the tasks and work in that community testing column
[14:50]  * skaet nods
[14:50] <balloons> basically we want to help ensure things are smooth before milestones, and before isotesting events. We want a lighter workload, with more people testing.. but there is more being asked of us this cycle
[14:52] <balloons> ok, anything else?
[14:52] <balloons> any questions or comments on the schedule? I'll open a thread on the ml about it also so everyone gets a chance to see it
[14:53] <balloons> if not, thanks for coming out everyone and we're done! :-)
[14:53] <skaet> thanks!  :)
[14:53] <tristenw> bye :)
[14:53] <balloons> #endmeeting
[14:53] <meetingology`> Meeting ended Wed May 23 14:53:21 2012 UTC.
[14:53] <meetingology`> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-14.00.moin.txt
[14:53] <meetingology`> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-14.00.html
[14:53] <cesilko> I have one more question if I can but it's not schedule related.
[14:53] <balloons> cesilko, sure
[14:54] <cesilko> Does Ubuntu have purely date driven releases or is there a minimal release criteria that must be satisfied before new version is shipped?
[14:54] <cesilko> Imagine that a day prior the planned release a true showstopper is found. What happens then?
[14:55] <cesilko> Is there a Wiki describing that?
[14:55] <cesilko> I didn't find one. :|
[14:57] <balloons> cesilko, there is release criteria indeed
[14:58] <balloons> the release team is the best folks to ask for more information about that
[14:59] <balloons> joining #ubuntu-release is probably not a bad place to ask.. I hope :-)
[14:59] <balloons> but let me find you some wiki pages
[14:59] <cesilko> okay, I will turn to #ubuntu-release then
[15:01]  * slangasek waves
[15:01]  * stgraber waves
[15:02]  * ogra_ moos
[15:02] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:02] <meetingology`> Meeting started Wed May 23 15:02:26 2012 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:02] <meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:02] <slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
[15:02] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox)
[15:02] <slangasek> barry jodh infinity xnox ev cjwatson bdmurray ogra slangasek stgraber doko
[15:02]  * barry wins!
[15:02] <barry> syncs: twisted, python-testtools, python-defer, subunit, dbus-python. reviewed py3 branch for testresource.  started working on bug 1000801 (lazr.restfulclient port). started porting wsgi-intercept. reviewed glatzor's py3 branch for software-properties.  patch pilot: reviewed xnox's python-couchdb merge, bkerensa's fix for bug 962974, takluyver's py3 python-tz branch (merged & uploaded), bug 1002861 (sync'd canto). dmb meeting.  todo:
[15:02] <barry> return to porting the lazr.restfulclient stack.  done.
[15:02] <slangasek> er, wait
[15:02] <slangasek> stokachu: are you here?
[15:03] <barry> too late :)
[15:03] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra infinity cjwatson xnox stokachu)
[15:03] <slangasek> jodh bdmurray ev xnox stgraber doko ogra infinity stokachu barry slangasek cjwatson
[15:03] <slangasek> new order ;)
[15:03]  * barry loses
[15:03] <slangasek> barry: you'll just have to go twice ;)
[15:03] <jodh> * [misc/planning]: fleshed out work items (and sizings) for 7 blueprints.
[15:03] <jodh> * [boot/upstart]:
[15:03] <jodh>   - wrote spec for stateful re-exec (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Specs/QuantalUpstartStatefulReexec)
[15:03] <jodh>   - evaluated a number of JSON libraries.
[15:03] <jodh>   - wrote a basic JSON test prog to validate a fragment of the expected
[15:03] <jodh>     JSON schema.
[15:03] <jodh>   - started work on stateful re-exec.
[15:03] <jodh>   - NIH blog post.
[15:03] <jodh>   - drafted an Upstart blog post on logging.
[15:03] <jodh> ㄆ
[15:03]  * infinity wakes up.
[15:04] <bdmurray> modified apport to set importance of python tracebacks to Medium
[15:04] <bdmurray> modified apport to carry over release tags from duplicates to the master bug
[15:04] <bdmurray> wrote and ran launchpadlib code to copy tags over from duplicate apport-crash bug reports
[15:04] <bdmurray> apport branch to block 'not a debian format' archive bug reporting
[15:04] <bdmurray> put checks for corrupt packages for package install failures in apport instead of having apt check
[15:04] <bdmurray> update-manager merge for the fix to bug 999890
[15:04] <barry> slangasek: oh, i get it: new order <- joy division <- warsaw
[15:04] <bdmurray> wrote lplib code to delete update-manager clone attachments due to security issue
[15:04] <bdmurray> modified bug bot to remove bad attachments from update-manager reported bugs
[15:04] <slangasek> hah
[15:04] <bdmurray> modified bug bot to write to a log file for easier auditing of work done
[15:04] <bdmurray> modified search-bugs in bugpatterns to show count of duplicates for the master bug
[15:04] <bdmurray> modified lp-grab-attachments to have a --descriptions option
[15:04] <bdmurray> updating firefox-lp-improvements with the new version of lp_work_item_editor
[15:04] <bdmurray> arsenal branch to create a report of bug task with the most duplicates
[15:04] <mvo> \o/
[15:04] <bdmurray> wrote a bugpattern for ubiquity bug 998492
[15:04] <bdmurray> added a11y opportunity to harvest-data
[15:04] <bdmurray> moved harvest opportunity creation scripts from ubuntu-qa-tools to harvest-data
[15:04] <bdmurray> review of package install failures due to /etc/default/grub modifications gone bad
[15:05] <bdmurray> done‼
[15:05] <infinity> bdmurray: That seemed out of order. :P
[15:06] <infinity> - worked on organising and tidying specs
[15:06] <infinity> - spent a lot of time looking into armel/armhf toolchain woes
[15:06] <infinity> - spent even more time looking into nscd/netgroups bugs
[15:06] <infinity> ...
[15:06] <infinity> ^-- Remarkably short this week.
[15:06] <bdmurray> infinity: I was following the new order
[15:06] <xnox> infinity: you are out of order =)
[15:06] <infinity> bdmurray: Oh, I completely missed the new new order.
[15:06] <ogra_> infinity, i added a WI for you to https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-q-drop-preinst-images
[15:07] <ogra_> (just for tracking purposes)
[15:07]  * infinity isn't all here today.
[15:08]  * xnox looks for ev
[15:08] <ogra_> xnox, just move :)
[15:08] <slangasek> ev:
[15:08] <xnox> software-raid:
[15:08] <xnox> * collaborating with kees on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReliableRaid/History
[15:08] <xnox> * already from above, prepared some udev fixes for mdadm bug 957494 bug 968074 bug 1002357, pending sponsorship
[15:08] <xnox> * establishing access to bare metal machines in the QA lab
[15:08] <xnox> * ordered external quad HDD housing for RAID testing, being shipped from china
[15:08] <xnox> * next step to establish RAID Architecture Specification
[15:08] <xnox> ubiquity-lvm-luks:
[15:08] <xnox> * added workitems to the blueprint
[15:08] <xnox> * discussing requirements/roadmap/first steps with stakeholders
[15:08] <xnox> * next step to start building/modifying ubiquity
[15:08] <xnox> python-versions:
[15:08] <xnox> * tracker deployed at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/onlypy3oncd.html
[15:08] <xnox> * next step finish up local py3 branch for apparmor
[15:09] <xnox> bug 968074
[15:09] <barry> xnox: thanks for the tracker!
[15:09] <xnox> bug 1002357
[15:09] <jdstrand> xnox: you are doing the python3 porting for apparmor?
[15:09] <slangasek> ev: you're not here
[15:09] <slangasek> xnox:
[15:10] <xnox> jdstrand: well, i did a little work (there isn't much tbh) spotted a few things that were not bi-lingual
[15:10] <xnox> py2/py3
[15:10] <xnox> jdstrand: are you doing it as well?
[15:10] <jdstrand> xnox: ok, feel free to takl to me after the meeting
[15:10] <xnox> ok
[15:10] <jdstrand> xnox: we have work items for it, yes
[15:11] <slangasek> xnox: did you give up on getting access to the lab machines for HD testing, then?
[15:11] <jdstrand> xnox: I might also mention that ufw is actively being ported
[15:11] <barry> jdstrand: nice
[15:12]  * jdstrand has a work item for that
[15:12] <xnox> slangasek: I got VPN today, but don't have access to any machines behind the VPN yet. I still one both. Lab for automatic, local for troubleshooting/personal dogfooding
[15:12] <slangasek> xnox: ok
[15:12] <xnox> s/one/want/
[15:13] <slangasek> stgraber:
[15:13] <stgraber> Short week, was off on Monday:
[15:13] <stgraber> - Networking
[15:13] <stgraber>  - Spent some time testing candidates SRU for an IPv6 bug in Network Manager
[15:13] <stgraber> - SRU
[15:13] <stgraber>  - Verification testing of nagios-nrpe and lxc
[15:13] <stgraber>  - Started preparing the next lxc SRU
[15:13] <stgraber> - Containers
[15:13] <stgraber>  - Reworked the lxc-ubuntu template to be much easier to maintain
[15:14] <slangasek> (then no doko, so ogra_ next)
[15:14] <stgraber>  - Worked with Serge on API design for liblxc, worked on the initial structure of the python binding
[15:14] <stgraber>  - Fixed some races in lxc-start-ephemeral, made it consistently call sudo and dropped the separate
[15:14] <stgraber>    and complex lxc-ip for a simple call to the new "ip netns" instead
[15:14] <stgraber> - ISO tracker
[15:14] <stgraber>  - Continued the work to get qa-q-isotracker-testcases implemented, all of the backend work is done
[15:14] <stgraber>    and most of the frontend work nears completion, there's some admin UI work left and API update
[15:14] <stgraber>  - Migration code works fine, result can be seen at http://iso.qa.dev.stgraber.org
[15:14] <stgraber>    If you don't see anything, that's fine, the idea was not to loose any history data and have the new cool
[15:14] <stgraber>    stuff show up only for the new products.
[15:14] <stgraber> - Other
[15:14] <stgraber>  - Drafted and sent all my specs for review
[15:14] <stgraber>  - Patch pilot on Friday
[15:14] <stgraber> - TODO this week
[15:14] <stgraber>  - Push an LXC SRU, cherry-picking the important fixes from the recent quantal uploads
[15:14] <stgraber>  - Get enough of the ISO tracker work done so that QA can test it and work on smaller changes
[15:14] <stgraber> (DONE)
[15:14] <ogra_> phew
[15:14] <ogra_> done:
[15:14] <ogra_> * ascension day on thu.
[15:14] <ogra_> * filled WIs on foundations-q-embedded-rootfs, foundations-q-hwpack-integration and added two items to foundations-q-drop-preinst-images
[15:14] <ogra_>   (for tracking purpose only)
[15:14] <ogra_> * finally MoM is back, worked on merges
[15:14] <ogra_> * started looking into the gcc-4.7 FTBFS list on debian (on request from doko)
[15:15] <ogra_> todo:
[15:15] <ogra_> * more merges
[15:15] <ogra_> * more FTBFS
[15:15] <ogra_> * start looking into the armhf image situation in preparation for A1
[15:15] <ogra_> (fells so small to go after stgraber)
[15:15] <ogra_> ..
[15:16] <stgraber> ogra_: you're just better at summarizing it ;)
[15:16] <ogra_> haha
[15:16] <slangasek> stokachu: here?
[15:16] <slangasek> stokachu: no worries if not
[15:17]  * xnox the new new order is broken, we need an SRU
[15:17] <infinity> Yeah, I have to figure out how to expand more too. :P
[15:17] <slangasek> looks like that makes it my turn
[15:17] <infinity> Or just mention every single AA, SRU, etc task.
[15:17] <ogra_> lets hire a ghostwriter ;)
[15:17] <slangasek>  * fixing up update-notifier SRU, apparently our translators are too efficient and translate things that shouldn't be (bug #1003100)
[15:17] <slangasek>  * pushed a bug report to plymouth in Debian, requesting a backport for an API mountall needs
[15:17] <slangasek>  * mountall bug triage in preparation for uploading to Debian
[15:17] <slangasek> * SRU processing generally
[15:17] <slangasek>  * sponsored sudo merge, and uploaded pkexec (bug #982684)
[15:17] <slangasek>  * ia32-libs SRU for bug #1000541
[15:17] <slangasek> cjwatson:
[15:17] <slangasek>  * getting things organized for DebConf
[15:17] <slangasek> (done)
[15:18] <cjwatson> Uploaded ubiquity Python 3 port.  Fixed some resulting breakage (decoding Unicode at wrong point).
[15:18] <cjwatson> Landed per-packageset build scoring.
[15:18] <cjwatson> Started work on allowing per-pocket archive permissions.
[15:18] <cjwatson> Verified dh-make SRU.
[15:18] <cjwatson> Uploaded ubuntu-keyring with new archive and cdimage signing keys.  Needs SRUs.
[15:18] <cjwatson> Resurrected merges.ubuntu.com, with help from IS.
[15:18] <cjwatson> Lots of merges.
[15:18] <cjwatson> Fixed stale files being left behind in ftpmaster's germinate output directory.
[15:18] <cjwatson> Arranged for buildd admins to be able to adjust per-archive build scoring (pending deployment).
[15:18] <cjwatson> Moved Ubuntu-specific publishing hooks out of Launchpad, in preparation for upgrading them to use the new archive signing key for >=quantal.
[15:18] <cjwatson> Made a couple of live-installer improvements requested by the server team.
[15:18] <cjwatson> Various adjustments to cope with recent kernel flavour renamings.
[15:18] <cjwatson> Removed "Essential: yes" from python-minimal.
[15:18] <cjwatson> Merged xdeb staged-bootstrap patch.
[15:18] <cjwatson> Opened main vs. universe discussion with kubuntu-devel (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2012-May/006080.html).
[15:18] <cjwatson> Gave Daviey some basic archive admin training.
[15:18] <cjwatson> ☕
[15:19] <ogra_> is that a coffepot or something else that generates steam ?
[15:19] <cjwatson> U+2615 HOT BEVERAGE
[15:19] <ogra_> ah
[15:19] <ogra_> so not what my initial thought was then :)
[15:19]  * xnox ogra_: there is scribe team for ghostwritting ;-) hot beverage! I want an iced tea ;-)
[15:20] <cjwatson> infinity: FYI the per-archive scoring will basically be:
[15:20] <cjwatson> archive = whatever
[15:20] <cjwatson> archive.relative_build_score  # fetch attribute to work around bug 662740
[15:20] <infinity> cjwatson: I was actually more interested in the bullet point about finally dropping python-minimal out of Essential. \o/
[15:20] <cjwatson> archive.relative_build_score = whatever
[15:20] <cjwatson> archive.lp_save()
[15:21] <cjwatson> infinity: it's still in prio required though ;)
[15:21] <infinity> Oh.
[15:21] <infinity> Less excited.
[15:21] <slangasek> ogra_: pile of poo is a different unicode character
[15:21] <cjwatson> Though I guess dpkg won't complain if you remove it.
[15:22] <ogra_> slangasek, heh, yeah, but its small enough to misread it in my xchat :)
[15:22] <slangasek> bug #820034
[15:23] <slangasek> any more questions about any of the above?
[15:23] <ogra_> *grin*
[15:23] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
[15:23]  * ogra_ likes the elegant aspect in that bug :) 
[15:24] <slangasek> bdmurray: anything showing up yet to worry about for 12.10?
[15:24] <bdmurray> slangasek: no not yet
[15:25] <slangasek> there are a few bugs jibel's been escalating to us based on the auto-tests... I need to pin down this debootstrap one today
[15:25] <cjwatson> I'm about to look at bug 1003443
[15:25]  * slangasek nods
[15:25] <cjwatson> May be an HD fault as the error suggests, but might as well check
[15:26] <slangasek> right
[15:26] <cjwatson> And I'm just fixing bug 1003440 now
[15:26] <slangasek> the debootstrap bug is bug #1001460
[15:26] <slangasek> which I still have no idea how that's happening :P
[15:26] <cjwatson> Have you had a chance to compare against a /var/log/bootstrap.log for precise?
[15:26] <slangasek> (hints accepted, if someone knows)
[15:26] <slangasek> cjwatson: hmm, no, good idea
[15:27] <cjwatson> The one I have to hand shows makedev successfully running insserv, so not just the set +e => -e thing I pointed out
[15:27] <cjwatson> But that dates from 2011-12-20
[15:27] <cjwatson> Aha
[15:27] <slangasek> successfully *running* insserv?
[15:28] <cjwatson> Here's one from 2012-03-20:
[15:28] <cjwatson> Selecting previously unselected package makedev.
[15:28] <cjwatson> Unpacking makedev (from .../makedev_2.3.1-89ubuntu2_all.deb) ...
[15:28] <cjwatson> update-rc.d: using dependency based boot sequencing
[15:28] <cjwatson> Can't exec "insserv": No such file or directory at /usr/sbin/update-rc.d line 402.
[15:28] <cjwatson> update-rc.d: error: insserv rejected the script header
[15:28] <slangasek> hmm
[15:28] <cjwatson> So this was happening in precise too and it's just the -e change
[15:28] <slangasek> ah
[15:28] <slangasek> ok, thanks
[15:28] <ogra_> didnt stokachu fix that in latest insserv
[15:28] <cjwatson> There's proximate cause for you, not so much with the root cause
[15:28] <slangasek> I'll fix sysvinit then :)
[15:28] <slangasek> ogra_: what he fixed was to make insserv disappear from the path because third-parties mistook it for an interface
[15:29] <ogra_> ah
[15:29]  * ogra_ just remembered something update-rc.d from precise 
[15:29] <ogra_> +related
[15:29] <slangasek> so anyway, yeah, I should be able to work it out from there - thanks cjwatson
[15:30] <infinity> Robbie seems to have some valid points on the bug ~6h ago.
[15:30] <infinity> Robie, even.  Silly people and their lack of Bs.
[15:30] <slangasek> bdmurray: anything on the 12.04.1 front?
[15:30] <slangasek> stgraber: or anything you know about for 12.04.1 that you need help with?
[15:30] <cjwatson> There are a lot of these kinds of loops in the base system
[15:31] <bdmurray> slangasek: not much their either yet
[15:31] <cjwatson> But yeah, possibly
[15:31] <stgraber> slangasek: not at this time. I've been looking at the pending SRUs, trying to get them through quickly, but most of my time is currently going on trying to have the iso tracker work done ASAP
[15:31] <stgraber> (so I can then focus more on 12.04.1)
[15:31] <slangasek> ok
[15:32] <slangasek> (I guess that includes the "iso" tracker work that gives us a framework for SRU verifications?)
[15:34] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Blueprints
[15:34] <slangasek> not much to say on my side... but figured I'd bring up the topic in case anyone has concerns to discuss
[15:34] <slangasek> hopefully the drafting is all done by now
[15:35] <slangasek> (anyone not done with drafting?)
[15:35] <stgraber> slangasek: yeah
[15:35] <stgraber> slangasek: (that yeah applies to the part about framework for SRU verification)
[15:35]  * slangasek nods
[15:35] <xnox> hardware-notifications needs drafting still on my side.
[15:35]  * xnox sorry.
[15:36] <ogra_> depends where you draw the line
[15:36] <ogra_> i still need pretty wikipages
[15:36] <ogra_> Wis are there
[15:36] <slangasek> xnox: 'sok
[15:36] <jodh> I've drafted the work items, but some can't be broken down into <= 2 day chunks without spending quite some time on the design and I'm not even sure we're planning to do some of them, so...
[15:36] <slangasek> ogra_: WIs are a good start, as that gives us pretty graphs :)
[15:36] <ogra_> :)
[15:36] <cjwatson> with the exception of the server installer bits, I think I'm pretty much done
[15:37] <slangasek> ok
[15:37] <slangasek> sounds like we're in pretty good shape overall then
[15:38] <slangasek> jodh: that's still ok for this point in the cycle, don't worry about it - and yes, we'll drill down into the question of which ones to do
[15:38] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:38] <jodh> slangasek: ok, thanks!
[15:38] <slangasek> Anything else to discuss?
[15:38] <bdmurray> I'm out next monday
[15:38] <barry> next monday is a usa holiday
[15:38] <slangasek> yep
[15:38] <jodh> should we discuss the "on hold" music for next time? ;)
[15:38] <ogra_> arent most of us ?
[15:38] <slangasek> so I'm out too next Monday
[15:39] <ogra_> german holiday too
[15:39] <slangasek> !
[15:39] <slangasek> why does Germany get TWO holidays in May
[15:39] <infinity> I'm in Hong Kong next week.
[15:39] <slangasek> so not fair
[15:39] <ogra_> slangasek, merkel
[15:39] <slangasek> haha
[15:39]  * xnox uk has Queens jubilee the week after a believe or something
[15:40]  * barry fondly remembers mlk day and presidents day :)
[15:40] <slangasek> barry: I remember them being in a crappy season ;)
[15:40] <barry> :-D
[15:40] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:40] <meetingology`> Meeting ended Wed May 23 15:40:37 2012 UTC.
[15:40] <meetingology`> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-15.02.moin.txt
[15:40] <meetingology`> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-15.02.html
[15:40] <slangasek> ok, thanks everyone!
[15:40] <ogra_> thanks
[15:40] <barry> thanks!
[15:41] <stgraber> thanks!
[15:41] <jodh> thanks!
[15:41] <xnox> How is this useful? http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-15.02.html
[15:42] <xnox> ok it has links to topics
[15:42] <ogra_> and would list the actions if we would use that part
[15:42] <slangasek> xnox: heh, that's more useful than it used to be IMHO
[15:42] <slangasek> it used to just be a copy of the log :)
[15:43] <xnox> can we start 'sub-topics' of the lighting round? =)
[15:43] <xnox> per-person.
[15:43] <xnox> anyway thank you everyone =)
[15:43]  * xnox 0/
[15:43] <ogra_> xnox, you could just read the ubunut-release ML ... that gets a summray of every team on fridays
[15:44] <ogra_> *summary
[20:00]  * MrChrisDruif wonders if the Lubuntu team will have their meeting tonight
[20:00] <jmarsden|work> #startmeeting
[20:00] <meetingology`> Meeting started Wed May 23 20:00:48 2012 UTC.  The chair is jmarsden|work. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:00] <meetingology`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[20:00] <jmarsden|work> Let's see who is here :)
[20:00] <kanliot> hi
[20:01] <will_> hi
[20:01]  * MrChrisDruif lurks
[20:01] <jmarsden|work> OK, this may be a short meeting...
[20:02] <jmarsden|work> #topic Review of Action Items from Last Meeting
[20:02] <jmarsden|work> Prevous meeting is logged at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Meetings/20120516
[20:03] <jmarsden|work> StevenSmallty is not here, so we don't know status of his action items.
[20:03] <kanliot> ok
[20:03] <jmarsden|work> I failed to email the list about wiki champion volunteers, I think, but kanliot volunteered.
[20:03] <kanliot> it's not smalty
[20:03] <jmarsden|work> Right, typo :)
[20:04] <jmarsden|work> *StevenSmally
[20:04] <jmarsden|work> So, kanliot, are you willing and able to coordinate wiki changes from now onwards?
[20:04] <kanliot> yeah
[20:05] <kanliot> sorry for short answer
[20:05] <jmarsden|work> OK.  I don't think we have enough people here for a very "convincing" vote, if you see what I mean, but I propose that we give you that role.  Is there any info or specific things you need from MrChrisDruif to take over this responsibility?
[20:06] <kanliot> can't think of anything
[20:06] <kanliot> besides chris has been very helpful
[20:06] <jmarsden|work> OK, good -- feel free to get to work :)
[20:06] <kanliot> not like i have to twist his arm or anything
[20:06] <jmarsden|work> Understood.
[20:06] <MrChrisDruif> I remain a member of the docs team, so any questions on how to change this or if needs be removing/redirecting can still be asked
[20:07] <MrChrisDruif> this=things
[20:07] <jmarsden|work> Good, thanks MrChrisDruif -- it is always helpful to have smooth friendly transfers of responsibilities
[20:08] <MrChrisDruif> o7
[20:08] <jmarsden|work> we've had some governance discussion recently but we are not ready for any specific proposals at this point, as I understand it.
[20:09] <kanliot> ya
[20:09] <jmarsden|work> OK... any other items we should be discussing here?
[20:10] <jmarsden|work> OK... none heard.  Don't forget to look at the blueprint for our work towards 12.10 and see how you can help move any of those work items forward.
[20:11] <jmarsden|work> Thanks all!
[20:11] <kanliot> ty
[20:11] <jmarsden|work> #endmeeting
[20:11] <meetingology`> Meeting ended Wed May 23 20:11:11 2012 UTC.
[20:11] <meetingology`> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-20.00.moin.txt
[20:11] <meetingology`> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-23-20.00.html
[20:11] <will_> That was fast :)
[20:11] <kanliot> yeah maybe i should have reported more
[20:11] <kanliot> lol
[20:11] <jmarsden|work> will_: Indeed, may be a new record for the shortest Lubuntu meeting :)
[20:13] <Unit193> Sorry I missed a good deal of it. :/
[22:45] <s-fox> Hey cariboo907 :-)
[22:45] <cariboo907> good day s-fox
[22:45] <s-fox> How ate
[22:46] <s-fox> How are you cariboo907 ?
[22:46] <cariboo907> good, I just finished putting up a gazebo on the deck :)
[22:47] <s-fox> I just got back cariboo907 , just pocked a nice packet against my former pool team >:)
[22:57] <s-fox> Here bodhi_zazen , cariboo907  nothingspecial and co
[22:57] <bodhi_zazen> =)
[22:57] <cariboo907> what app are you using for irc on your tablet s-fox ?
[22:57] <s-fox> i switched from iPhone to mac cariboo907
[22:58] <s-fox> i am using colloquy
[22:59] <bodhi_zazen> Anyone here for the FC meeting ?
[22:59] <nothingspecial> o/
[22:59] <Iowan> o/
[22:59] <coffeecat> o/
[22:59] <moergaes> o/
[22:59] <sandyd> me here for my memership
[22:59] <quackers> o/
[22:59] <CharlesA> o/
[22:59] <cariboo907> o/
[23:00] <bodhi_zazen> #startmeeting
[23:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed May 23 23:00:09 2012 UTC.  The chair is bodhi_zazen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[23:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[23:00] <bodhi_zazen> [link]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[23:00] <bodhi_zazen> Light schedule this month ;)
[23:00] <s-fox> yay
[23:01] <Iowan> +1
[23:01] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] ARchiving Forums
[23:01] <s-fox> thanks again bodhi_zazen for chairing this meeting
[23:01] <bodhi_zazen> Did we ever come up with a policy for this ?
[23:01] <s-fox> o/
[23:01] <cariboo907> I think we are still discussing it, some are for it  and some are against
[23:03] <bodhi_zazen> do we want to discuss this and determine if we can come to a consensus ?
[23:03] <s-fox> Does anyone object to archiving seriously old posts?
[23:03] <CharlesA> Not I.
[23:03] <s-fox> very black and white, but just to punt it out there
[23:04] <cariboo907> nope, I thought we decide on two year old threads, but I may be wrong
[23:04] <bodhi_zazen> No, I think we should archive posts / threads which have become inactive for what __ months ?
[23:04] <bodhi_zazen> 6-12 ?
[23:04] <CharlesA> +1
[23:04] <Iowan> Someone will object - but that someone is not me...
[23:04] <CharlesA> 12 months seems reasonable imho
[23:04] <s-fox> i would like to cover lts bodhi_zazen
[23:04] <cariboo907> In the +1 forum they expect it every 6 months :)
[23:04] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]Archive threads inactive for > 12 months , every 6 months (in sync with release cycles)
[23:04] <meetingology> Please vote on: Archive threads inactive for > 12 months , every 6 months (in sync with release cycles)
[23:04] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[23:04] <CharlesA> heheh
[23:05] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[23:05] <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
[23:05] <cariboo907> +1
[23:05] <meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
[23:05] <CharlesA> +1
[23:05] <meetingology> +1 received from CharlesA
[23:05] <s-fox> -1
[23:05] <meetingology> -1 received from s-fox
[23:05] <bodhi_zazen> LTS is not static though s-fox
[23:05] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
[23:05] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Archive threads inactive for > 12 months , every 6 months (in sync with release cycles)
[23:05] <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0
[23:05] <meetingology> Motion carried
[23:05] <Iowan> +0
[23:05] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  how many fc members are here?
[23:05] <Iowan> o/
[23:05] <coffeecat> o/
[23:05] <s-fox> o/
[23:05] <bodhi_zazen> o/
[23:05] <cariboo907> o/
[23:06] <s-fox> 5 ?
[23:06] <CharlesA> Oopsie
[23:06] <s-fox> okay :) just checking
[23:06] <bodhi_zazen> Any other comments on archiving ?
[23:06] <s-fox> can you elaborate on lts bodhi_zazen ?
[23:06] <s-fox> i don't mind the 12 moths, but stuff relevant for lts should not be archived
[23:07] <bodhi_zazen> Well, even though LTS is supported for longer, some things get fixed
[23:07] <cariboo907> 12.04 is supported for 5 years
[23:07] <nothingspecial> I'm with s-fox on this one
[23:07] <bodhi_zazen> So it seems reasonable to have the same policy - If a thread is inactive -> archive
[23:07] <bodhi_zazen> it is still readable
[23:07] <s-fox> forgive me but what is "inactive" ?
[23:07] <bodhi_zazen> And after a year, who knows if it is still a problem or not
[23:07] <cariboo907> +1 for even an LTS thread being archived if inactive
[23:07] <bodhi_zazen> Inactive means no new posts
[23:08] <s-fox> a black and white answer would be great
[23:08] <s-fox> from when to when ?
[23:08] <cariboo907> no posts for 6 months?
[23:08] <s-fox> 6 , 12, 18 months/
[23:08] <s-fox> ?
[23:08] <bodhi_zazen> From now (time of searcing data base ) - 12 months
[23:08] <s-fox> i do not mind guidelines, providing they are clear :)
[23:08] <bodhi_zazen> 12 seems to be the consensus
[23:09] <cariboo907> +1 for 12
[23:09] <s-fox> is the fc happy with 12?
[23:09] <s-fox> +1
[23:09] <bodhi_zazen> So every 6 months we archive threads with no posts for the last 12 months
[23:09] <Iowan> 12 months from first post - or last?
[23:09] <bodhi_zazen> last
[23:10] <Iowan> should help w/ necromancy...
[23:10] <bodhi_zazen> So a thread that was last posted on 8 months ago would not be archived now, but probably will be 6 months from now
[23:10] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  suggest we move on ;)
[23:10] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]New theme
[23:11] <s-fox> yay technoviking
[23:11] <bodhi_zazen> Technoviking has been working hard on the new theme
[23:11] <CharlesA> \o/
[23:11] <nothingspecial> +1
[23:11] <cariboo907> +1 to yay TV
[23:11]  * Iowan likes
[23:11] <coffeecat> +1
[23:11] <bodhi_zazen> It is still in development, so send suggestions to
[23:11]  * s-fox is okay with it since font fix for non ubuntu users
[23:11] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1981875
[23:12] <bodhi_zazen> Any other comments on theme ?
[23:12] <CharlesA> It still looks odd on an XP box with no Ubuntu font installed, but it looks ok.
[23:12] <CharlesA> IMHO at least
[23:12]  * bodhi_zazen would still like a dark theme
[23:12] <CharlesA> SAme bodhi_zazen
[23:12] <s-fox> i know i played devils advocate, but felt i had to. so sorry if tv felt frustrated by lack of perceived support. i tried to be contructive with irc chats with him
[23:13] <bodhi_zazen> It is a big chunk of code and AFIK too many cooks ...
[23:13] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  +1
[23:13] <CharlesA> yep, unfortunately
[23:13] <s-fox> to dark theme
[23:13] <Iowan> i's evolving nicely
[23:13] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1977732
[23:14] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Wiki team
[23:14] <bodhi_zazen> Anyone here from the wiki team ?
[23:14] <wildmanne39> o/
[23:14] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=11959014&postcount=49
[23:15] <bodhi_zazen> I just wanted to thank all the members of the wiki team, it is a great working group
[23:15] <bodhi_zazen> #ubuntu-wiki is now logged
[23:15] <s-fox> shame hobgoblin is not here , he has been working really hard at making it work
[23:15] <nothingspecial> +1 thanks elfy
[23:15] <wildmanne39> nice
[23:15] <bodhi_zazen> And we will start with askubuntu once the team gets any additional kinks worked out
[23:15] <s-fox> +1
[23:16] <bodhi_zazen> Any other comments for wiki team ?
[23:16] <cariboo907> the only complaint I have, is that bodhi_zazen 's script doesn't work well on heavily formatted posts
[23:16] <nothingspecial> Please people join
[23:16] <s-fox> +0 askubuntu, that sayd i gave support in previous months but not really got involved ;)
[23:16] <nothingspecial> it is a n easy way to start contributing to Ubuntu
[23:17] <bodhi_zazen> cariboo907: anything in particular that can be scripted ?
[23:17] <bodhi_zazen> let me know
[23:17] <s-fox> cariboo907:  perhaps the script could be refined ?
[23:17] <cariboo907> I'll look at it again, but this was a special case I think.
[23:17] <bodhi_zazen> but yes, some of the posts on the forums are works of art, and as they are not all uniform, outliers are not going to script
[23:18] <bodhi_zazen> [LINK]http://bodhizazen.net/tweaks/ubforums2ubwiki.sh.txt
[23:18] <cariboo907> is that the same as last week, as I have a copy here?
[23:18] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  while i remember, i have a small item that is not on the agenda atm. i would like to get some consensus from my fellow council members
[23:18] <bodhi_zazen> cariboo907: you can always PM me a link and I will look at it
[23:19] <bodhi_zazen> no changes in last week cariboo907
[23:19] <bodhi_zazen> what topic s-fox ?
[23:19] <s-fox> i also have general message to the forum community which i would like to relay
[23:19] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  spam bans on automated welcome email
[23:19] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]General Message
[23:20] <s-fox> may i speak bodhi_zazen ?
[23:20] <bodhi_zazen> yes, please s-fox
[23:20] <s-fox> I would just like to publicaly thank everyone for their support in my application for a seat on the ubuntu membership board, it was really touching to see everyone commenting positive things

[23:21] <bodhi_zazen> \o/
[23:21] <nothingspecial> \o/
[23:21] <bodhi_zazen> When is the board going to be selected ?
[23:21]  * JonEdney claps
[23:21] <moergaes> Most der
[23:21] <s-fox> i thought i might get 3 or 4 +1's. i am at over 20
[23:21] <moergaes> deserved
[23:21] <s-fox> it has been incredible
[23:22] <s-fox> hey moergaes  :)
[23:22] <sandyd> good job :)
[23:23] <moergaes> s-fox: Hey!
[23:23] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]New Staff
[23:23] <bodhi_zazen> I have to apologize for this, I know we talked about it ...
[23:24] <s-fox> +1 on adding, but tz specific. i don't think we are suffering in europe or usa. i think asia / oz needs more on board
[23:24] <bodhi_zazen> but I sort of got cold feet, I am not sure we have enough UFMembers yet for an election process
[23:24] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  i have some good candidates, but none are uf members
[23:24] <bodhi_zazen> So I am going to suggest we add 2 or 3 now, and look at 12.10 release for possible electiosn
[23:24] <s-fox> bureaucracy appears to be winning
[23:25] <s-fox> which i am not for
[23:25] <bodhi_zazen> We can discuss candidates later
[23:25] <s-fox> hey overdrank  :)
[23:25] <bodhi_zazen> 'lo overdrank =)
[23:25] <Iowan> o/
[23:25] <overdrank> Sorry I am late and hey s-fox
[23:25] <JonEdney> question!
[23:25] <bodhi_zazen> Is it on topic JonEdney ?
[23:25] <bodhi_zazen> then ask
[23:26] <bodhi_zazen> Otherwise wait for open floor
[23:26] <JonEdney> Thank you.  Is there a link or any reading on what you are expecting from a staff member?  I'm interested.
[23:26] <s-fox> JonEdney:  you mean a criteria ?
[23:26] <bodhi_zazen> Good point, but no we do not have one
[23:26] <JonEdney> Yes.
[23:27] <bodhi_zazen> Generally they have to have thick skin, it is all fun and games until the trolling starts, and staff have big targets painted on their avatars
[23:27] <JonEdney> Okay, no worries.  I will help where I can, and go from there in the future.
[23:27] <bodhi_zazen> They have to be Ubuntu Forums Members
[23:28] <bodhi_zazen> So that sort of covers the kind / helpful / active on the forums part
[23:28] <s-fox> JonEdney:  i personally would expect a level of maturity , an active account on the forums and of course established forums community member
[23:28] <s-fox> but that is just me and may not reflect the entire fc
[23:28] <JonEdney> Of course.  Thank you for the information. :)  Carry on.
[23:28] <bodhi_zazen> personally , at least aware of IRC helps
[23:29] <bodhi_zazen> again, not necessarily reflective of entire FC
[23:29] <bodhi_zazen> What do you want to do next ?
[23:29] <bodhi_zazen> New members or open floor ?
[23:29] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  how about the dev sub forum ?
[23:29] <s-fox> mhall119:  are you around  ?
[23:30] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Application development forum
[23:30] <s-fox> i relayed some of the staff concerns on the topiic, mhall119  was going to provide answers :)
[23:30] <s-fox> heard nothing since
[23:31] <overdrank> I did not see this on the agenda so I am lost
[23:31] <bodhi_zazen> OK, well if mhall119 comes in later we can probably take action, otherwise a reminder e-mail ?
[23:31] <s-fox> +1 email reminder
[23:31] <bodhi_zazen> overdrank: nope, did not get added to agenda
[23:31] <s-fox> overdrank:  i posted in the scc thread about my actions
[23:31] <bodhi_zazen> OK, so new members or open floor ?
[23:31] <Iowan> members
[23:31] <cariboo907> new members I would think
[23:31] <overdrank> Ok s-fox will search :)
[23:32] <s-fox> +1 new members :)
[23:32] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]New Members
[23:32] <s-fox> overdrank:  i will relay a link if you like
[23:32] <overdrank> Its ok I will find :)
[23:32] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=404
[23:32] <bodhi_zazen> roffiscoder you here ?
[23:32] <s-fox> +1 to all except the one we discussed ;\0
[23:33] <bodhi_zazen> roffisserver does not meet criteria, not active on the forums long enough
[23:33] <s-fox> +1 bodhi_zazen
[23:33] <bodhi_zazen> do we want to vote on that , ir just take action ?
[23:34] <s-fox> i thought member had been pm'd
[23:34] <coffeecat> Yes - my pm exchange: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1976954
[23:34] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]roffiscoder to come back after contributing to community
[23:34] <meetingology> Please vote on: roffiscoder to come back after contributing to community
[23:34] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[23:34] <cariboo907> That's what I thought too
[23:34] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[23:34] <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
[23:34] <Iowan> 1
[23:34] <s-fox> +1
[23:34] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[23:34] <overdrank> +1
[23:34] <meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
[23:34] <Iowan> +1
[23:34] <cariboo907> +1
[23:34] <meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
[23:34] <meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
[23:34] <coffeecat> +1
[23:34] <meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
[23:34] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
[23:34] <meetingology> Voting ended on: roffiscoder to come back after contributing to community
[23:34] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[23:34] <meetingology> Motion carried
[23:34] <bodhi_zazen> OK
[23:34] <s-fox> boom :)
[23:35] <bodhi_zazen> Primefalcon you here ?
[23:35] <s-fox> guess not
[23:35] <bodhi_zazen> Anyone wish to speak for Primefalcon ?
[23:35] <s-fox> i kept out of the discussion thread, as per my obligation as a fc member and having a valid vote
[23:35] <s-fox> but generally i am +1
[23:36] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]Primefalcon for membership
[23:36] <meetingology> Please vote on: Primefalcon for membership
[23:36] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[23:36] <bodhi_zazen> 0
[23:36] <meetingology> 0 received from bodhi_zazen
[23:36] <s-fox> +1
[23:36] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[23:36] <cariboo907> 0
[23:36] <overdrank> +1
[23:36] <meetingology> 0 received from cariboo907
[23:36] <meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
[23:36] <coffeecat> 0
[23:36] <meetingology> 0 received from coffeecat
[23:36] <Iowan> +1
[23:36] <meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
[23:36] <s-fox>   hmm, lots of neutrals
[23:36] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
[23:36] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Primefalcon for membership
[23:36] <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:3
[23:36] <meetingology> Motion carried
[23:37] <s-fox> that surely is a tie
[23:37] <bodhi_zazen> you have to -1 to tie
[23:37] <coffeecat> s-fox, no. An abstention is an abstention.
[23:37] <s-fox> :)
[23:37] <bodhi_zazen> 0 and +1 carries vote
[23:37] <bodhi_zazen> hakermania here ?
[23:38] <bodhi_zazen> Anyone wish to speak for hakermania ?
[23:38] <s-fox> guess not
[23:39] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE]hakermania for membership ?
[23:39] <s-fox> vote bodhi_zazen  ?
[23:39] <meetingology> Please vote on: hakermania for membership ?
[23:39] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[23:39] <s-fox> +1
[23:39] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[23:39] <bodhi_zazen> +0
[23:39] <meetingology> +0 received from bodhi_zazen
[23:39] <overdrank> +1
[23:39] <meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
[23:39] <cariboo907> 0
[23:39] <Iowan> +1
[23:39] <meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
[23:39] <meetingology> 0 received from cariboo907
[23:39] <coffeecat> +1
[23:39] <meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
[23:39] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
[23:39] <meetingology> Voting ended on: hakermania for membership ?
[23:39] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
[23:39] <meetingology> Motion carried
[23:39] <bodhi_zazen> OK, and sandyd could not make it
[23:40] <bodhi_zazen> sandyd: ping - sorry for the "dad joke" there
[23:40] <cariboo907> I thought I saw her log on earlier
[23:40] <sandyd> here
[23:40] <Iowan> WAS here!
[23:40] <s-fox> hello sandyd  :)
[23:40] <sandyd> s-fox: hi :)
[23:41] <bodhi_zazen> Anyone wish to say a few words in support of sandyd ?
[23:41] <s-fox> does +1 count? ;)
[23:41] <Iowan> Is it necessasry? :)
[23:41] <bodhi_zazen> LOL
[23:42] <bodhi_zazen> [VOTE] sandyd for membership
[23:42] <meetingology> Please vote on: sandyd for membership
[23:42] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[23:42] <nothingspecial> goes without saying
[23:42] <overdrank> +1
[23:42] <meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
[23:42] <bodhi_zazen> no, but it is sort of nice if they show up
[23:42] <s-fox> +1 yes, no doubt
[23:42] <meetingology> +1 yes, no doubt received from s-fox
[23:42] <cariboo907> +1
[23:42] <meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
[23:42] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[23:42] <Iowan> +1
[23:42] <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
[23:42] <meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
[23:42] <coffeecat> +1
[23:42] <meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
[23:42] <Iowan> can I vote twice?
[23:42] <overdrank> +1
[23:42] <meetingology> +1 received from overdrank
[23:42] <bodhi_zazen> [ENDVOTE]
[23:42] <meetingology> Voting ended on: sandyd for membership
[23:42] <meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[23:42] <meetingology> Motion carried
[23:42] <sandyd> THANKS! :)
[23:42] <matt_symes> Congrats sandyd
[23:42] <cariboo907> congrats sandyd
[23:42] <overdrank> Congrats sandyd
[23:42] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC]Division of labor
[23:43] <bodhi_zazen> congrats sandyd
[23:43] <cariboo907> who did what last month?
[23:43] <s-fox> i have an item
[23:43] <overdrank> Is spam banning enough labor
[23:43] <bodhi_zazen> OK anyone want to volunteer for stuff this month ?
[23:43] <s-fox> ^ bodhi_zazen
[23:43] <bodhi_zazen> cariboo907: I have not been tracking, lol
[23:44] <s-fox> i could do with advice from fc, re: spam ban on welcome email
[23:44] <coffeecat> I'll volunteer for ML. About time I learnt the ropes.
[23:44] <Iowan> What needs vollunteered (that I can't mess up?) :)
[23:44] <cariboo907> I'll do the welcome message, if s-fox doesn't want to
[23:44] <bodhi_zazen> s-fox: can it wait for open floor ?
[23:44] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  sure, but providing not forgotten :)
[23:45] <bodhi_zazen> I am looking for my list, lol
[23:45] <bodhi_zazen> 1. Mailing list -
[23:45] <bodhi_zazen> 2. Froums - Admin thread and RC
[23:45] <bodhi_zazen> 3. Monthly report
[23:45] <bodhi_zazen> 4. Membership
[23:46] <mhall119> bodhi_zazen: s-fox: I'm here now
[23:46] <bodhi_zazen> OK mhall119
[23:46]  * s-fox wants membership 
[23:46]  * bodhi_zazen puts coffeecat for ML
[23:46] <bodhi_zazen> s-fox for membership
[23:46] <cariboo907> I'll give the monthly report a try, as last month s-fox did it before I could even have a look :)
[23:47]  * s-fox was so bad ;) 
[23:47] <bodhi_zazen> OK, thanks
[23:47] <overdrank> 2 for overdrank ?
[23:47] <bodhi_zazen> [TOPIC] dev forums
[23:47] <bodhi_zazen> mhall119: you are up
[23:47] <mhall119> I was just here to answer any questions or concerns the FC had about our request for a new App Developer forum
[23:48] <mhall119> s-fox: do you still have that list?
[23:48] <bodhi_zazen> Did you get the email from s-fox ?
[23:48] <mhall119> let me find it
[23:48] <s-fox> mhall119:  not right now no, sorry
[23:49] <bodhi_zazen> mhall119: two issues I recall
[23:49] <bodhi_zazen> moderators ?
[23:49] <mhall119> bodhi_zazen: dpm and I will moderate, and we will recruit someone from the ARB and possibly consumer apps as well
[23:49] <bodhi_zazen> Staff can help, of course, but we were sort of hoping you had 1 or 2 willing to help set the tone and establish the forums, answer questions as they come up, be active on in the forums
[23:50] <mhall119> we discussed with the ARB during UDS, and they were positive about it
[23:50] <mhall119> dpm and I will take the lead on moderation
[23:50] <bodhi_zazen> OK, can you send that to the FC mailing list , with forums accounts names =)
[23:50] <mhall119> I don't know about dpm, I'm most likely mhall119
[23:50] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  i recall licensing and not posting support questions on the forum as being issues that needed answers for
[23:50] <bodhi_zazen> The rest of us can help with daily tasks, trolling / spam
[23:51] <bodhi_zazen> Second issue, I just wanted licensing to be clear
[23:51] <moergaes> What is ARB?
[23:51] <mhall119> ARB is the app review board, they review and approve FLOSS apps that are submitted through developer.ubuntu.com
[23:51] <bodhi_zazen> From time to time we get people who want to delete posts, argue over ownership of content ...
[23:52] <bodhi_zazen> With app development, having a clear policy on ideas / code posted ...
[23:52] <moergaes> thanks
[23:52] <mhall119> you mean people posting code snippets that they don't have permission to post?
[23:52] <mhall119> that kind of thing?
[23:53] <bodhi_zazen> We need to consider how to manage potential feuds over who posted what , who modified the code ... etc
[23:53] <mhall119> how is that handled in the other forums?
[23:53] <bodhi_zazen> Developer A posts code A
[23:53] <bodhi_zazen> Developer B then modifies code
[23:53] <bodhi_zazen> Dev A & B then start feuding over licensing issues ...
[23:54] <bodhi_zazen> Forums posts are covered by CC
[23:54] <mhall119> ok, so wouldn't that also apply to this new forum?  Anything you post is CC
[23:54] <bodhi_zazen> http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy
[23:55] <bodhi_zazen> All public forum data is released under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 License and should be attributed to The Ubuntu Forums (ubuntuforums.org).
[23:55]  * s-fox is big on tc  / policy issues
[23:55] <bodhi_zazen> Do you all want such attribution to be added to code ?
[23:55]  * s-fox is bored enough to read them thoroughly ;)
[23:55] <bodhi_zazen> Or a policy all code is GPL unless noted ?
[23:56] <mhall119> I don't imagine there will be a significant amount of code posted, mostly example snippets or "why isn't this working???" kind
[23:56] <bodhi_zazen> Yea, but a clear policy for when problems arise need to be in place
[23:56] <mhall119> if we're going to assign a code license, I'd rather something more liberal
[23:56] <bodhi_zazen> Judging from previous spats
[23:56] <s-fox> forums posts are creative commons arbitration 3 bodhi_zazen , just to add another spin :)
[23:57] <mhall119> let me check with others on the code licensing concern, as it's not really my strong suit
[23:57] <bodhi_zazen> mhall119: OK, so yes, we need to assign a code license , if not it would be CC v3
[23:57] <mhall119> but I'd rather see apache or bsd style
[23:57] <bodhi_zazen> sounds great
[23:57] <s-fox> cc v3 +! bodhi_zazen
[23:57] <bodhi_zazen> some people feud about policy, lol
[23:58] <mhall119> CC v3 might even be enough, for the small amount of code I imagine being posted
[23:58] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen:  have you ever seen me feud?
[23:58] <s-fox> ;)
[23:58] <bodhi_zazen> The "works for us", so long as it works for you, I think checking is reasonable
[23:58]  * bodhi_zazen pleads the 5th
[23:58] <overdrank> seing double
[23:59] <mhall119> I remember their being a question about using AskUbuntu for support questions