chrisccoulsonfantastic. so, not only does gcc4.7 break canvas in firefox, it also makes it a fair amount slower00:05
TheMusochrisccoulson: Sounds like gcc 4.6 for now then I guess. :p00:17
pittiGood morning04:59
TheMusoMorning pitti.05:00
robert_ancellTheMuso, hey, are you running quantal?  Are you doing the gnome-orca update?05:12
pittihey TheMuso05:12
pittigood morning robert_ancell05:12
robert_ancellpitti, hey05:12
pittirobert_ancell: can you please drop libgdu from gvfs' build deps? Now that g-d-u has been updated, libgdu is NBS05:13
pittirobert_ancell: how is gvfs holding up with udisks2?05:13
robert_ancellit wasn't - didn't you point that out yesterday?05:14
pittisomeone uploaded it now05:14
pittirobert_ancell: anyway, gdu is obsolete, and I don't think gvfs does anything with it if udisks2 is available05:15
pittilibgdu, I mean05:15
robert_ancellyup, uploaded with that dropped now05:15
pittihttp://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/nbs.html now has a few remaining rdepends, but shouldn't be too hard05:15
TheMusorobert_ancell: Yes its covered.05:23
TheMusoorca that is.05:23
=== smspilla|z is now known as smspilaz
=== smspilaz is now known as smspillaz
chrisccoulsongood morning everyone07:41
ritzchrisccoulson, morning07:42
pittihey chrisccoulson07:42
chrisccoulsonhi ritz, pitti, how are you?07:43
ritzso far, so good :)07:43
pittichrisccoulson: quite fine, thanks!07:45
ritzchrisccoulson, how are you doing ?07:47
chrisccoulsonritz, preparing for an "interesting" day, but otherwise, not too bad thanks ;)07:47
pittichrisccoulson: more fun with PGO?07:48
chrisccoulsonpitti - fortunately, not this time07:49
chrisccoulsonbug 100373307:49
ubot2Launchpad bug 1003733 in firefox "Canvas does not work when built with gcc4.7" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/100373307:49
chrisccoulsonwhich is broken on any gcc4.7 build of firefox07:49
chrisccoulsonpitti, did you say that you noticed issues when switching tabs too?07:49
ritzchrisccoulson, need a favour, ff xslt/java thinggy. Pretty much lost on what to do here. Who might be good at this ?07:50
pittichrisccoulson: when I haven't looked at a tab yet since I started firefox, it loads the tab when switching to it, instead of at the beginning07:50
pittichrisccoulson: in the past it kept a cached version around, so that all tabs were immediately visible and usable after startup07:50
chrisccoulsonpitti, ah, a recent change now loads tabs on demand. you can toggle a pref to restore the old behaviour though07:51
pittiah, so that's not a bug07:51
pittitoo bad, the old behaviour was quite nice07:51
chrisccoulsonyeah, i don't think so07:51
chrisccoulsonyou can revert to the old behaviour in the general pane of the preferences window07:51
pittiI could pre-open tabs at home, then hop into a train or plane and still had them all available07:51
chrisccoulsonthere's a checkbox here "Don't load tabs until selected"07:52
seb128hey pitti, chrisccoulson, how are you?07:52
pittihey seb12807:52
chrisccoulsonhi seb12807:52
chrisccoulsoni'm good thanks. how are you?07:52
seb128I'm good thanks ;-)07:52
pittichrisccoulson: perfect, thanks!07:52
seb128today shapes like another summer day07:52
seb128it's already 23°C outside07:52
pittichrisccoulson: yup, workign fine07:52
pittiit's still quite nice in the early mornings07:53
chrisccoulsonritz, the only person who's likely to look at your bug is me. but i need to make firefox actually not broken for everybody in quantal first ;)07:53
chrisccoulsonseb128, oh, you've got warm weather too?07:56
chrisccoulsonit's been quite warm here this week too07:56
seb128chrisccoulson, yeah, it feels like summer07:56
seb128we got around 29°C yesterday07:57
chrisccoulsonthis is the first time we haven't had temperatures that are closer to winter so far this year ;)07:57
seb128Didier picked the right timing for a 5 days w.e07:57
seb128he let me with the unity SRU to deal with as well :p07:57
seb128robert_ancell uploaded the new aisleriot when we said we didn't want that transition, it was even written on the etherpad :-(07:58
chrisccoulsonyou should leave it for when he gets back07:58
seb128chrisccoulson, I really want some of the fixes out though ;-)07:58
chrisccoulsonseb128, you could just assign him some more WI's instead ;)07:59
chrisccoulsonyou have the power!07:59
seb128hehe, indeed! ;-)07:59
ritzchrisccoulson, sure. so far, ff works for me on quantal.07:59
seb128speaking of which07:59
seb128RAOF, thanks for the specs drafting ;-)07:59
chrisccoulsonritz, try anything that uses a html canvas07:59
RAOFseb128: They're written up to your satisfaction? :)07:59
seb128RAOF, indeed they are! ;-)08:00
seb128RAOF, some "approved" are going back your way ;-)08:00
RAOFSuperb! :)08:00
ritzchrisccoulson, http://www.html5canvastutorials.com/labs/html5-canvas-elastic-stars-with-kineticjs/ seems to work fine08:01
chrisccoulsonhmmm, not sure why it works there08:02
chrisccoulsonbut it doesn't work anywhere else i've tried ;)08:02
chrisccoulsonlike http://chrome.angrybirds.com/08:02
ritzchrisccoulson, indeed, is broken. works fine in opera though.08:22
ritzhmmm, broke between ff 12 and 1308:28
seb128chrisccoulson, did you try bug #997640 while you were under gnome-shell yesterday?08:49
ubot2Launchpad bug 997640 in firefox "Keyboard shortcuts for moving tabs don't work" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99764008:49
rickspencer3je vais au salle du gym plutot09:53
rickspencer3lol, that was a pm09:53
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
=== WelshDragon is now known as Guest65315
=== mpt_ is now known as mpt
jbichahmm, robert_ancell tried to sync aisleriot 3.412:49
jbichasince it didn't build we could undo that...12:54
bcurtiswxgood morning12:57
seb128hey jbicha, bcurtiswx13:00
bcurtiswxhi seb12813:01
seb128jbicha, hum not sure, I think pitti got that to work once before by deleting the source and getting the old version reuploaded?13:01
pittiyes, we can, but NB that we can never ever upload/sync that version again13:01
pittiwhy wouldn't we update to aisleriot 3.4 or 3.6 in quantal?13:02
seb128pitti, cf Laney's note on the etherpad, it would start a lib transition which we would want to avoid starting with a game13:03
pittiah, ok13:03
bcurtiswxhmm, should my vncviewer on 10.04 only show a terminal when connecting to my vnc4server on Precise ?13:08
bcurtiswxwell i did fix the settings so that it would start a normal desktop, but it's just a checkered screen.13:15
jbichapitti: ok, well we could always use a build1 or something if we end up needing that version later13:19
jbichaalso guile-2.0 currently doesn't build on arm13:19
bcurtiswxnvm, it's good now13:22
pittihey mterry13:24
pittijbicha: do you know about gnome-games-extra-data? It's in universe, still at version 3.2, but now gnome-games recommends it13:26
mterrypitti, heyo13:27
jbichapitti: yeah, that's the other wrong sync from last night, I can go ahead and fix that13:28
pittijbicha: should g-g-extra-data be updated or removed?13:29
jbichagnome-games doesn't need to depend on -extra-data13:31
pittijbicha: right, but I meant what should be the fate of the g-g-extra-data source?13:40
jbichapitti: I don't understand...13:42
pittijbicha: does that source still exist for GNOME 3.4/3.6, i. e. should we update it, or drop it?13:42
jbichait still exists, it just doesn't need many updates as it's just art http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-games-extra-data/log13:42
pittiah, but it's still compatible13:43
jbichawell Robert's commit there this week makes me wonder if it was silently broken with 3.413:44
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
=== larsu__ is now known as larsu
ritzseb128, heya, busy ? got a question on nm-strongswan15:09
ritzthe current code is buggy, we are thinking of rebasing it. This will fix the bugs, additionally add smartcard support15:11
ritzin precise15:11
seb128ritz, you want to talk to cyphermox if you have nm questions ;-)15:11
seb128he's maintaining that stack15:11
ritzseb128, thanks.15:12
ritzcyphermox, heya.15:13
cyphermoxplease go right ahead yeah ;)15:13
ritzcyphermox, curious, why are you not listed in https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/strongswan ?15:13
ritzas maintainer ?15:13
cyphermoxyou're working on n-m-strongswan upstream?15:13
cyphermoxbecause i don't "maintain" it :)15:14
ritzcyphermox, hmm, I am confused. Who manages this ?15:15
cyphermoxi wonder what pulled this in main though, that's a good point15:15
ritzcyphermox, essentially, strongswan 1.2.x deprecates nm-strongswan package15:15
cyphermoxis there a replacement?15:16
ritzI am new to this15:16
ritzstrongswan bundles the source15:17
cyphermoxI'd think the l2tp plugin possibly takes care of most cases, maybe15:17
ritzUser is hitting this bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-strongswan/+bug/87282415:18
ubot2Launchpad bug 872824 in network-manager-strongswan "Network-manager locks up when adding strongSwan VPN connection" [Critical,Triaged]15:18
ritzusing legacy glade code15:19
cyphermoxritz: unfortunately this is not a simple problem15:23
cyphermoxritz: the versions before 1.3 won't be working with NM 0.9; see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-strongswan; and https://mail.gnome.org/archives/networkmanager-list/2011-September/msg00037.html15:26
cyphermoxsomeone should, I think, first package 1.3 in Debian so that we can get the updated version, then probably figure out how far Martin's patch went.15:27
cyphermoxas far as I know, it's not merged, I don't think there was a second post for such support15:27
cyphermoxmaybe it's not needed :)15:27
ritzI will have to test this , hmmm15:29
cyphermoxbut all in all, I'm getting to the suspicion that a strongswan-specific plugin for NM might not be necessary15:29
cyphermoxI think the l2tp plugin probably covers it, but I haven't really played with this yet15:30
cyphermoxseb128: for e-d-s/evo, do we want to go aggressively with 3.5 in prevision for the 3.6 release?15:35
stgrabercyphermox: I don't think l2tp covers the same thing as strongswan. My IPSEC vpns don't use ppp at all and authenticate with either a PSK or a certificate.15:35
cyphermoxstgraber: and you use strongswan?15:35
seb128cyphermox, not sure yet, I would wait for 3.5.4 time15:35
stgrabercyphermox: from what I see from screenshots of the l2tp plugin, it's covering a subset of the roadwarrior+ppp setup, not the general IPSEC setup15:35
seb128cyphermox, i.e stay on 3.4 for a month or so15:36
cyphermoxstgraber: I realize it's not all the same thing, but merging both would IMO be pretty good :)15:36
stgrabercyphermox: between sites on my network, yes. I still use OpenVPN for my clients though15:36
seb128cyphermox, btw if you start on it check with jbicha I think he did some work on the updates15:36
cyphermoxseb128: yes, I would have done it with 3.4. as a first step anyway. I've just been discussing 3.4 with jbicha :)15:36
seb128jbicha, dunno if you saw but jordi was looking at setting up a transition tracker for Debian15:37
cyphermoxI'll try his ppa and merge nautilus-sendto to make sure everything is good, then it's likely all a sync15:37
seb128cyphermox, great!15:37
cyphermoxstgraber: ah, but that's why I was asking -- on the client side, n-m-strongswan is horribly broken and non-trivial to fix15:38
cyphermoxstgraber: didn't you mess with the code too?15:38
stgrabercyphermox: yes, I have a version that doesn't freeze NM in my PPA, instead it segfaults when connecting ;)15:39
cyphermoxcan you send me your patches?15:39
stgraberno patches, just updated to the latest upstream tarball I could find15:39
cyphermoxor we can look at n-m-strongswan 1.3, which is supposed to be fixed, though it might interact badly with n-m15:39
stgraberbzr merge-upstream + dput, that was it15:39
cyphermoxyes, alright15:39
stgraberand that's 1.3 I have in my PPA15:40
cyphermoxwanna dput to quantal? :)15:40
stgraberwell, it doesn't work ;) it doesn't fail as badly, true but it still doesn't work :)15:40
cyphermoxyes, but we can fix it more easily if more people can look at it, no?15:41
cyphermoxsince it's already broken, it shouldn't be a big deal15:41
ritzcyphermox, stgraber thanks . Will check this up15:41
ritzgn folks15:41
cyphermoxritz: thanks15:41
cyphermoxstgraber: I'll pull the source and play with it, since I'll need debug symbols anyway15:42
stgrabercyphermox: https://launchpad.net/~stgraber/+archive/experimental/+sourcepub/2293302/+listing-archive-extra15:43
ayanWhen setting in gconf like /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/cycle_windows, can I refer to XF86LaunchE as just LaunchE?15:44
ayanreally, my question is how to i set /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/cycle_windows to XF86LaunchE.15:44
cyphermoxstgraber: do you have a device I can test connections with, or sample config?15:45
stgrabercyphermox: I don't have the server side setup or client config, though IIRC any config would cause the segfault, it never actually tried to connect :)15:45
cyphermoxomg, the build-depends for n-m-strongswan are scary.15:51
=== Guest65315 is now known as WelshDragon
pittigood night everyone!16:34
bcurtiswxnite pitti16:35
seb128pitti, 'night16:36
chrisccoulsoni think i'm going to permanently run firefox with paint flashing enabled17:22
jbichaI run GNOME Shell with the close window buttons on the left but that looks more fun17:24
chrisccoulsonwow, facebook sucks. it triggers a repaint of the entire page every few seconds17:26
jbichaI wanted to make the GNOME Shell close button on the left by default but I think I was overruled :(17:28
mlankhorstjbicha: oh i run without window decoration, much better :)17:29
seb128jbicha, by who? where?17:30
jbichamlankhorst: I try unity --reset when that happens ;)17:30
mlankhorstjbicha: currently running with kde + kwin, with some tweaks you can go by fine without decoration, since its a waste of space anyhow17:31
jbichaseb128: just for Ubuntu for consistency, but I didn't try very hard17:31
seb128jbicha, well, who did you discuss that with for ubuntu? I'm just surprised I didn't see the discussion17:32
jbichadesrt: what do you think? ^17:32
jbichait was more of a joke really but I do find it useful as I switch between Unity & gshell pretty frequently17:33
jbichagsettings set org.gnome.shell.overrides button-layout 'close:'17:35
jbichaand restart gnome-shell17:35
seb128I've no strong opinion on it17:37
seb128it's the sort of things where some people will prefer the cross desktop consistency17:38
seb128you can argue that the layout of the decorator is an OS thing, not a desktop thing and the Ubuntu one is on the left17:38
seb128kenvandine, mterry, cyphermox, chrisccoulson, jbicha, others: is one of you using glade and still on precise?17:40
seb128bug #999581 needs a SRU verification17:40
ubot2Launchpad bug 999581 in glade "3.12.1 stable version" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99958117:40
chrisccoulsonseb128, i'm on quantal now17:40
seb128(I can't do it since I did the update)17:40
cyphermoxseb128: can reboot my desktop into precise and test17:40
seb128same for bug #99957517:40
ubot2Launchpad bug 999575 in gtksourceview3 "3.4.2 stable update" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99957517:40
kenvandineon quantal17:41
seb128you loosers :p17:42
seb128cyphermox, no hurry but if you can do at some point I would appreciate17:42
jbichaseb128: is there anything specific you want tested? I haven't used glade in a few months17:43
seb128cyphermox, jbicha: bug #999593 as well17:43
ubot2Launchpad bug 999593 in vinagre "3.4.2 stable version" [Wishlist,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99959317:43
seb128jbicha, cyphermox: there are just stable update, no specific fix to test, just making sure glade, gedit (and syntax coloration), vinagre still work17:43
jbicha(don't tell anyone, but I don't actually use remote desktop)17:44
jbichaI guess vinagre supports ssh so I could try that? lol17:47
seb128it does! ;-)17:49
seb128it's also easy enough to run vino-preferences and click the box to share you desktop and then use vinagre to connect17:50
seb128it even works on localhost, though that's not of the best use since you get a visual content loop in the viewer then, i.e you can't use it17:50
chrisccoulsoni think i'm almost ready to shift this firefox bug to somebody else now :)19:00
cyphermoxomg, I suck at packaging today.19:22
micahgseb128: should we discuss testing now/19:31
seb128micahg, hey, we can!19:31
seb128did you have anything specific you would like to discusson the topic?19:31
micahgseb128: I might have to step away for a couple minutes (someone is stopping by to pick up an item)19:31
micahgseb128: well, I was told the desktop teams had some concerns about the timing of the Firefox testing19:32
seb128micahg, it's not so much concerns that we would like to be proactive to make sure we notice any potential issue before the release and not on the release day19:33
seb128micahg, like I was suggesting that maybe the security team could do a round of testing 2 weeks before release and one week before release to give us a status of the current daily19:34
seb128micahg, so we have time to act without delaying the update if there is any regression19:34
seb128i.e better to catch issues before release than after19:34
micahgseb128: would partial arch testing be sufficient for that in your opinion (i386 on lucid, amd64 on natty...)19:35
seb128micahg, well, any testing is better than none, but ideally it would be enough that we know "the current version is good to go out for security"19:35
seb128micahg, the goal is really to avoid having to ask those questions on the release week19:35
seb128we should know before they roll their tarball if we are good to go or not19:36
micahgseb128: the problem is that the final tag is the friday before release19:36
micahgand up until then, they take fixes19:36
seb128well chrisccoulson said that typically the number of commit the week before release is very low19:36
micahgso, we can catch stuff early, but we'll still need to retest the final binaries19:36
seb128so testing a week ago should be 99% of the code of release19:36
seb128but at least it would give us a picture of "almost" release19:37
micahgis 2 and 1 week before sufficient?19:37
seb128like if breaks a week before we want to know it19:37
seb128if it's good we still need to retest the final version19:37
seb128but at least if there is an issue to catch we catch it earlier19:37
seb128well, your call at the end19:37
seb128I would be happy with that yes19:38
seb128but if you want to do weekly testing of the coming version I'm not against it19:38
seb128I just want to make sure that if there is a regression we know about it a week before release19:38
seb128rather than waiting on the release day to test and see it19:38
micahgok, I'll do partial arch testing and switch the arch for each week, so we should get ~full coverage19:38
seb128thank you!19:38
jbichahow much additional testing do we need? we already have the beta PPA and beta releases are run most of the time in ubuntu+119:39
micahgand we'll see how it goes, once we get most of the testing automated with browser shots, we might be able to do it weekly19:39
micahgwell, I don't recall any showstoppers yet, but it would be nice to have a bigger safety net19:40
seb128jbicha, well, we had an history of release to be delayed by non trivial time because testing was happening after release and issues were found19:40
seb128or concerns were raised19:40
seb128jbicha, I'm just trying to make sure we stay on top of things19:40
seb128i.e we test before release, spot any issue early and are ready to ship when the release is out19:41
micahgI think the only time we explicitly delayed is if we knew upstream had a regression and was respinning post release19:41
seb128(or with the minor delay due to another round of testing)19:41
seb128micahg, well, I know we discussed issues with tb at the rally in january where the new version was not shipped for weeks because of potential performances issues19:41
seb128I just want to avoid that happening again19:42
seb128we should know early if there is an issue and what the issue is19:42
micahgseb128: hmm, I guess you want this for thunderbird as well?19:42
seb128micahg, that would be nice yes19:43
seb128same rational19:43
seb128we should be able to ship on time so we need to know in advance if something is problematic19:44
seb128we have daily builds of the channels so we should be able to test and get those infos early19:44
desrtjbicha: i feel like i should remind you about the follow-upstream-exactly policy :)19:44
micahgso, it's a little late this week, but I'll do the first  pre-testing tuesday and next cycle plan for weeks 4 and 519:44
seb128micahg, thank you ;-)19:44
desrtjbicha: although i have to admit that i used to change the button to the left side (even before ubuntu was doing it)19:44
micahgseb128: thanks for bringing this up, I'll be able to relax a bit at release time if there's some pre-testing done as well19:45
seb128micahg, let us know if there is anything we can do to help for that testing btw19:45
seb128with the daily builds in the ppa it seems we are mostly set up on the infra side but I might be overlooking something19:46
micahgwell, having people running the beta would help :) (I'm not running the thunderbird beta yet as I have no enigmail)19:46
micahgso, if chrisccoulson could get the enigmail beta in, that would mean I could use the beta on a real workload (~14 accounts, ~500k messages cached)19:48
jbichadesrt: I was joking about the default, but I think seb128 wanted the close button moved ;)19:48
jbichamicahg: yikes, seems like you have twice the email accounts you need...19:49
seb128micahg, well, maybe you should run without enigmail during your worktime even if it's inconveniant? testing what we ship is what we are supposed to do, like most of us run quantal even if it has bugs or missing features19:49
micahgseb128: I need to be able to sign e-mails when I send out the USNs19:50
seb128can't you have both versions? or another mailed for that?19:50
jbichaseb128: quantal doesn't have bugs, it just has incomplete features :)19:50
micahgseb128: I'd rather not, anyways, there should be a beta available (and since we push enigmail out at the same time, it would be nice to test it as well)19:51
seb128micahg, ok, your call, but I don't see a feature limitation as a reason to not test what needs to be tested, they are way around limitations19:51
seb128micahg, like we asked most of our teams to run unity even when it was buggy or add feature limitations19:52
micahgseb128: I also get encrypted e-mail that I need to be able to read19:52
* micahg is still running unity-2d19:52
seb128well, I'm sure you can find a way to test what needs to be tested and still get to those emails19:52
seb128like lot of people here have evolution and tb installed19:53
micahgalso, other people need enigmail internally as well (I'm sure it's not just me that's not running the beta because of it)19:53
micahgseb128: oh, I can test, just not run it in a real life situation :019:53
chrisccoulsonenigmail is already in the beta PPA, isn't it?19:53
micahgversion is lower than the release one19:54
micahgnope, no upload for 1319:54
chrisccoulsonoh, i thought i'd uploaded that19:54
* micahg wonders if he should say something next time19:54
kenvandinePPAs can be evil20:42
topyliso can random "ubuntu-*" blogs which recommend them20:46
topylinot evil, just ignorant20:46
topylilike that20:49
dupondjesome small question, how could I get the scroll lock status in GDK ?20:49
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away

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