shakes808I am getting this error when trying to upload to github:03:24
shakes808 ! [rejected]        master -> master (non-fast-forward)03:24
shakes808error: failed to push some refs to 'MY FILE PATH'03:24
shakes808To prevent you from losing history, non-fast-forward updates were rejected03:24
shakes808Merge the remote changes (e.g. 'git pull') before pushing again.  See the03:24
shakes808'Note about fast-forwards' section of 'git push --help' for details.03:24
shakes808got it, had to pull because of the README file03:44
nixternaldamn, i just found old pictures from penguicon. definitely going next year. greg-g you have to go too dude03:50
shakes808... I uploaded 4 files and now they are gone from my box and not on github03:50
shakes808where would they have gone?03:50
rick_h_bah, so picasa and G+ merging is near complete it appears11:11
shakes808good morning11:34
snap-lGood morning11:41
shakes808Awesome shirt11:42
snap-lbtw: I played way too long with civicrm last night11:42
rick_h_snap-l: :)11:42
shakes808snap-l: what?11:42
rick_h_any success?11:42
snap-lThat's auto-generated11:42
snap-lMembership stuff is proving a little tricky11:43
snap-lApparently WP did some changes to how it munged URLs, and civicrm hasn't caught up11:43
snap-lBah, there's a new version11:44
snap-lWonder if it has the love I'm looking for11:44
snap-lHm, don't think so, but it looks promising11:47
snap-lbut, it does have membership management11:47
brouschyou can modify how wordpress generates urls11:48
snap-lSo I think we can get more current11:48
snap-lbrousch: right, but 3.3.2 apparently busted one of the methods11:48
snap-land I didn't find an alternate11:48
snap-land it was 1am11:48
brouschi got the go-ahead to buy a tablet for our project manager at work so he can bring all of the drawings into the field, take dimensions and photos, access email12:42
brouschthis'll be fun12:42
snap-lnullspace: are we keeping you awake?12:56
shakes808nullspace: take a look at this, maybe make you laugh for a moment and amuse you to stay awake for the next 5 mins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqJxyuTMMog&feature=endscreen&NR=112:59
nullspacejust needed some coffee13:04
nullspacesnap-l: how goes the web dev job...?13:05
brouschi'm looking at a eee pad transformer tf101g tablet. it has "Mobile broadband: GSM Quad bands, HSPA+ (I,II,V,VIII)". anyone know if that means it will work on ATT?13:44
snap-lGuitar Hero is now on Linux13:50
snap-lI'm an uncaring bastard13:55
snap-lReading mailing lists where someone say "I'm having such and such problem with Windows because ..."13:55
snap-land all I see is "... because I'm not running Linux"13:55
jrwrenits a fair thought.13:56
jrwreni used to have it often when running windows.13:56
jrwren"Linux would NEVER take this long to login, and even if it did, I'd be able to fix it."   I still have that every time I login to my windows machine (which is only monthly)13:57
snap-ljrwren: It's mostly gcc errors, or other environmental errors13:57
snap-lsomething of that ilk, yes13:59
brouschok, this is kind of cool http://www.jacobian.org/writing/auto-building-sphinx/14:38
jcastrohow's the weather up there guys?15:09
jcastroshorts or jeans?15:09
rick_h_shorts, hot stuff15:10
rick_h_85 today15:10
rick_h_ugh, 90 by monday15:10
rick_h_when does my flight to portland leave?15:10
jcastroit's been raining here15:10
rick_h_they say rain sat some, but we'll see15:10
jrwrenyou are going to portland?!? *jealous*15:12
rick_h_no, I want to move there15:12
rick_h_but wife won't let me15:12
rick_h_hot days like this makes my desire to move greater15:13
jrwrenrick_h_: The spirit of the 90s is still alive, in portland.15:13
rick_h_everyone wants to live in their high school years right?15:13
jrwrenrick_h_: portland is at the top of my list too.15:13
jrwrenoh damn, i quoted it wrong.15:13
jrwrenThe dream of the 90s is still alive in portland15:14
rick_h_doh, close enough for me15:14
rick_h_still want to go15:14
rick_h_currently 51 in portland15:14
jrwrenYou know, the 1990s where piercings and working in coffee shops and forming bands were actual things that people did.15:14
rick_h_high today of 58 woot!15:14
rick_h_73 tomorrow, oooh...so perfect15:14
brouschi read that once global warming really kicks in West MI will have weather similar to Portland's now15:17
snap-lWhat exactly was the dream of the nineties? TO be a bunch of hipster hippie wannabies?15:18
jrwrenbrousch: i can't wait to move to South Haven.15:18
rick_h_snap-l: to spend a small fortune on AC?15:18
jrwrensnap-l: grunge was WAY before hipster.15:18
snap-lBest thing Kurt Cobain did for music was pulling a trigger15:19
rick_h_grunge ftw :) /me goes looking for his collection of black jeans, black flannels, and black metallica shirts15:19
jrwrensnap-l: oh come on. Billy Ho is a fun song.15:19
snap-lThat's not grunge. That's Goth from Hot Topic15:19
rick_h_this is when you learn that snap-l is a little bit ahead of us in terms of time15:19
rick_h_psh, this was pre hot topic by about a decade or two15:19
jrwrenhe'd have to be. have you seen his prog rock listen list?15:20
rick_h_no, I appreciate snap-l's passion for music, but don't know we share much in actual tastes15:20
snap-lNirvana's "Nevermind" wasn't a cool title, it was sage advice for future generations15:20
brouschnirvana unplugged in new york is still the best album ever made15:20
jrwrenand i honestly feel sorry for you if you believe that.15:20
snap-lI had the album. I listened to it. I got bored15:21
brouschi could listen to it 12 hours a day15:21
snap-lSmashing Pumpkins Gish: Listened. Liked. Got Bored. Sold.15:21
jrwrensnap-l: same15:21
snap-lSoundgarden Badmotorfinger: Listened. Meh. Got Bored. Sold.15:21
brouschsmashing pumpkins voice is annoying15:21
jrwrensnap-l: but i feel that way for most music of that style and esp that era.15:22
* rick_h_ goes back to his weezer/greenday playlist15:22
jrwrenalthough for some reason Catherine Wheel comes to mind and I want to listen to it.15:22
brouschnow we're talkin15:22
snap-lI respect Billy, I think he's a great musician15:22
* jrwren is listening ot Laibach :)15:22
rick_h_man, I found the voices annoying of AC/DC and Beastie Boys...15:22
snap-lbut it's not something I want to listen to more than once15:22
rick_h_pumpkins, never a problem15:22
rick_h_mayonaise ftw!15:22
snap-lThe 90s made Thrash Metal go away15:23
brouschaxle rose has the best voice15:23
jrwrenis that a song on an album? sounds familiar.15:23
snap-land now Thrash is back15:23
snap-lI rue the grunge revival15:23
jrwreni'm very picky with metal. just a few bands I like15:23
snap-lFortunately with Metal now having an internet network, I don't have to participate.15:24
snap-lY'all can have your Alice in Chains, your Social Distortion, your Bush, your Hootie and the fuckin' Blowfish15:25
rick_h_jrwren: yea, it's a pumpkin tune I'm particular to15:25
rick_h_oh man, AIC, Social D yes!15:25
rick_h_hootie...ummm...that's chick stuff :P15:25
brouschspin doctors15:25
snap-l12 hours clockwork orange style with Rick and my music collection. That's all I ask.15:25
jrwrenI do like AiC15:25
rick_h_then again my first CD ever bought was Metallica Black15:26
snap-lrick_h_: Oh ffs15:26
brouschalice in chains unplugged is also awesome15:26
rick_h_yea, dirt is awesome15:26
jrwrendirt and facelift15:26
rick_h_snap-l: I had some cassettes before that, but not a ton, but I got into music in the black, perl jam, etc era15:26
snap-l(though my first CD was Byran Adams, so I have no room to talk)15:26
rick_h_hah, I had one of those15:27
jrwrenthat reminds me, i downloaded some Prince that I want to listen to15:27
rick_h_speaking of things I could never get into15:27
rick_h_wtf do people find in Prince?15:27
brouschmy first tape was dj jazzy jeff and the fresh prince15:27
jrwrenVERY hit and miss.15:27
snap-lFirst Three Discs: Bryan Adams: INto the Fire, Bon Jovie: Slippery when wet, and Joe Jackson: Big World.15:27
snap-lGuess which of the three I still have15:27
brouschbon jovia? omg15:27
* brousch unsubscribes from OMC15:28
jrwrenwhat is the Joe Jackson like?15:28
rick_h_hah, used to listen to jovi in elementry school during lunch break15:28
jrwrenI really know nothing about him.15:28
rick_h_I'm with jrwren, "who?"15:28
snap-lOK, start with Look Sharp15:28
snap-lmove through Night and Day15:28
snap-land then Blaze of Glory15:28
snap-lthen purchase the rest of his catalog15:29
jrwrenyou are that pro Joe?15:29
jrwreni only know him from one song he did with Shatner.15:29
snap-lI love his stuff15:29
snap-lHe's a musician's Musician15:29
snap-lPut it another way: ANthrax covered Got The Time15:29
snap-lI tried for months to try to get my high-school band Blackat Chiquita to cover it15:30
snap-lsuddenly Anthrax covers it, and I'm a visionary. :)15:30
snap-ljrwren: You might not like the earlier stuff. Not sure if you like New Wave15:31
snap-lBut he moves out of that in Night and Day15:31
snap-lAnd Blaze of Glory shows a more mature musician.15:32
brouschoh, for you geeks with children, this book is pretty cool http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0756690153/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i0015:35
jrwrenok, this is a weird question, but when and what song is that jock jams song ?15:42
jrwrenyou know. THAT jock jams song.15:42
jrwrenGary Glitter - Rock'n Roll 1972. WOW, I had no idea that was that old.15:44
jrwrenI ask becuase I'm LMAO at Doctorin' The Tardis by The Timelords.15:45
snap-ljrwren: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ3NDP-Qiak16:33
rick_h_ummm... https://github.com/languages16:56
snap-lFuck, Ada doesn't even rank16:56
rick_h_coffeescript makes the list now :/16:57
rick_h_brousch: material for your meet up ^^16:57
snap-lrick_h_: Yeah, everyone's rewriting their Javascript todolist applications in it.16:57
snap-lI'll wager all of that Javascript yet another god-damn framework and jQuery plugins16:58
snap-l"Forked project blah blah because that jackass wouldn't accept my color scheme"16:58
rick_h_django has good docs my @#$#@17:28
brouschno, no. django has many docs17:29
rick_h_so they're called "Api" docs17:30
rick_h_but they don't show the api17:30
rick_h_so I go "well...that's retarded it can't do XX"17:31
rick_h_and then later find a blog post saying "Pass this kwarg that wasn't in the "api" docs"17:31
nullspacesome might even be empty or just include a header, description and some references17:31
rick_h_https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/forms/api/#ref-forms-api-bound-unbound seems like the place to find out about binding data to a form17:31
rick_h_but nothing mentions the instance kwarg...17:31
rick_h_I've got to go find this: http://www.ironzebra.com/news/3/how-to-quickly-create-a-django-edit-form-from-object-instance17:32
brouschforms are one of their painpoints17:36
brouschthere are a couple of newer modules that are supposedly better17:37
rick_h_but it's all magical and unicorns!17:37
rick_h_the docs are > *17:37
brouschi think floppy is the current hotness17:39
rick_h_!@#@! I can't even just import the damn thing in bpython because I need a settings crap setup first?17:44
rick_h_you've got to be kidding me17:44
greg-guh oh17:45
* greg-g steps away from rick_h_ and covers himself with a heat shield17:45
rick_h_I mean seriously..who ever heard of not being able to import a module until you've done config/setup first?17:46
rick_h_this is the great python hope... "I'm sorry...you've not declared your intentions. I can't let you import that module at all"17:46
snap-lrick_h_: Apparently Django developers have.17:46
rick_h_this is what you get when you let newspaper people run things :P17:47
rick_h_and this silently fail template BS is for the birds17:49
rick_h_ok, ready to do battle. Downloaded Django and have it open in an editor so I can view the api while I work17:50
rick_h_this is truly what linux workspaces were meant for...fixing stupid docs17:50
rick_h_have I mentioned lately that if you can't read source code go read some now? :)17:50
jrwrenrick_h_: django settings?17:53
rick_h_jrwren: yea, if you just do a fresh venv, and instlal django, and launch python17:53
rick_h_you can't import certain modules because you lack django settings17:53
jrwrenfrom django.config import settings17:54
rick_h_I just want to explore the freaking code in the shell, I'm not trying to run17:54
jrwrenall you need AFAIK17:54
brouschmaybe you need to make a project17:55
brouschand empty project17:55
rick_h_I just want to browse the code, not setup a project.17:55
rick_h_it wants me to setup an ENV like I'm running stuff, but I'm not17:56
brouschah, i see17:56
rick_h_you know me...always "doing it wrong"17:56
snap-lMaybe it's you. :)17:57
rick_h_I'm sure it is17:57
snap-lremind me not to taunt rick_h_. He knows where I live17:57
snap-land where i work17:57
brouschquit exploring. just do what the docs tell you to do!17:57
rick_h_though I do feel a little better that the requests library author favorited that tweet17:57
rick_h_brousch: I would but the docs don't tell me :P17:57
snap-lHe'll go all Jeff Foxworthy on me. "Here's your spine"17:58
rick_h_snap-l: yea, I might still have backdoor access to rm -rf your git repos :P17:58
snap-l(and don't correct me if I'm wrong on the comic. I really don't care)17:58
brouschisn't jeff foxworth "you might be a redneck"?17:58
snap-lbrousch: see above17:58
brouschFIX IT17:59
jrwrenrick_h_: oh yeah, you need a settings.py17:59
jrwrendjango can't run without it.17:59
brouschrick_h_: what module wouldn't install without config?17:59
jrwrenand I know you aren't "running" it, but it can't do much of anthing without settings. an empty settings module might be fine17:59
rick_h_brousch: any python module in the world you can import and dir(something)18:01
brouschright, but which one wouldn't?18:01
rick_h_jrwren: yea, I've just opened the django up in vim and doing pure source.18:01
jrwrenrick_h_: that is great too.18:01
rick_h_jrwren: yea, except for my linting going nuts lol18:02
jrwrenrick_h_: i was able to trick it by touching __init__.py and settings.py and starting ipython with DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE=settings18:02
rick_h_jrwren: right, I just think that's retarded as hell as a python dev18:02
rick_h_therefor I shall rant to the world!18:02
jrwreni'm not enough of a python dev to know18:02
rick_h_so I've been working on learning/hacking in python for coming up on 5yrs and I think this is the first time I recall ever hitting something like this18:04
brouschrick_h_: well now you're finally using enterprise-class python modules instead of those toy projects18:23
* brousch peers to the east in anticipation of the nuclear mushroom cloud18:23
rick_h_jrwren: you ever run into guys that just hate the idea of mocking out methods/etc for tests?18:24
jrwrenrick_h_: what are tests? :)18:27
jrwrenrick_h_: i am a guy who hatest mocking out methods for tests.18:27
jrwreni really cant stand mocks.18:27
jrwrenbut i guess they are a necessarily evil.18:27
rick_h_jrwren: so do you end up creating subclasses and things of the existing code and having hidden _fake params to classes so you can fake out parts of the code?18:28
jrwrenrick_h_: in python? no way.18:34
jrwrenrick_h_: inverse the dependencies and inject teh fakes18:34
rick_h_I'm trying to understand this other guy in my squad. He's all about subclassing things, overwriting the method I would mock with Mock, and then using it for things18:35
jrwrenso obviously I'm a fan of fakes when it comes to mocking :)18:35
jrwrenrick_h_: that is a valid way to do it when you can refactor to inject.18:35
rick_h_but he ends up with classes that take _something where _something is only provided in tests to inject a fake object18:35
jrwrenit is straight out of "Working Effectively With Legacy Code"18:35
rick_h_and I'm just wonder why not use the tools available and patch the object with somehting fake18:35
jrwrenbut if you are testing first, you would never come up with that.18:36
jrwrenrick_h_: maybe he did too much java in the past :)18:36
rick_h_yea, but that's also limited to java in a lot of ways where you can't do as much direct monkey patching fakes in place18:36
jrwrenrick_h_: exactly18:36
jrwrenrick_h_: but you can always inverse dependencies.18:36
Blazeixthere is something to be said for the overall pattern of dependency injection, though18:36
jrwrenrick_h_: its why Java has the Factory Factory Factory problem.18:36
jrwrenbecause you can't have virtual constructors.18:37
Blazeixhaving all your dependencies listed up front can be useful18:37
rick_h_yea, I need to sit down and get educated because I just look at it and it seems like so much pointless litter among the code18:37
jrwrenBlazeix: yeah, its applicable in python for sure.18:37
rick_h_but when I changed it once I got asked to change it back18:37
jrwrenhell, its straight up strategy pattern and its just that one of your strategies is for test.18:37
rick_h_so the guy's been doing python a long while and worked on big things like bzr/etc18:37
Blazeixrick_h_: is this the code you showed me? that wasn't dependency injection though,18:37
rick_h_so I know he's a smart guy, but obviously opinionated in this stuff18:37
Blazeixhe was just subclassing/overriding, i thought18:38
rick_h_Blazeix: that's an exmaple, today he flat has a def __init__(self, _curl=None):18:38
Blazeixah ok18:38
rick_h_where _curl is just there to insert a fake curl object he creates18:38
Blazeixright, that's a pretty popular pattern in the .NET/java world18:38
rick_h_right, but I don't get that in the python world so much18:39
rick_h_because he's doing: +        if _curl is None:18:39
rick_h_62+            _curl = pycurl.Curl()18:39
rick_h_but could just do with patched(pycurl, "Curl") as mock: ...18:39
Blazeixsure, the monkey patching thing is pretty awesome too. i do think inverted dependencies are more readable, though18:39
snap-lI'm sorry, but did anyone else see "bzr code" and immediately think "his whole argument is suspect"?18:41
snap-l(the rick_h_ developer partner, not rick_h_ )18:42
rick_h_heh, well I'm not fan of bzr, but the guys behind it can write some python18:42
Blazeixoh, i didn't catch the code sample rick_h_ pasted18:44
Blazeixso he's not actually gaining any loose coupling benefits18:44
rick_h_Blazeix: not that I can tell18:44
rick_h_but I've seen the pattern before in other code18:44
Blazeixok, that is a little bit weird18:44
jrwrensnap-l: yes, but I didn't say anything :)18:46
rick_h_at some point I'll have to get him a few drinks and have him explain his thoughts behind the stuff18:46
rick_h_he's a bit defensive/etc ootb so didn't push too hard :)18:46
jrwrenrick_h_: oh, that is the inversion thing to which I was refering. So i'd probably do it his way too.18:46
jrwrenbut its only because its what I am familiar with.18:47
rick_h_jrwren: yea, I'm not trying to trash it, but I'm not seeing the immediate advantages so curious what I'm missing18:47
rick_h_I mean some things are just matters of taste, but even that can often have some particular bug/issue that created that taste18:47
rick_h_I think all of LP teams have done too much Java...I mean Python via Zope :P18:48
Blazeixyeah, his specific pattern doesn't seem super useful, but next CHC i can show you where it gets useful if you take it one step further18:48
rick_h_Blazeix: cool, we'll melt shakes8081's brain with an all out testing patterns discussion :)18:49
shakes8081rick_h_: BRING IT ON!!!!!18:51
shakes8081rick_h_: Does the "testing pattern discussion" incorperate what I am learning? Or is it for a much later headache?18:54
rick_h_shakes8081: later18:54
rick_h_I remember going to MichiPug meetings and they'd be talking over my head on stuff18:54
rick_h_but learn a lot and slowly catch up, it could be one of those if we let it18:55
shakes8081Well Obe Won'Ricknobe, whatever you think is best ;)18:55
rick_h_hmmm, I can't decide if I like this or not... https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/forms/modelforms/#the-save-method18:57
rick_h_it seems strange for the form object to save the model18:57
snap-lIf it's any consolation, I'm still design-pattern deficient18:57
brouschof course you don't like it. it's django18:57
rick_h_brousch: naw, if it was that I'd be like "WTF?! What moron decided that this was a good thing?"18:58
rick_h_I'm much milder...so it means I'm thinking about it still :)18:58
brouschcan you use any of the newer form modules?18:58
rick_h_not currently18:58
rick_h_I'm assuming they'd do that part the same18:58
brouschi've been watching all of the old djangocon talks to pick up on stuff18:59
shakes8081snap-l: we can learn together lol18:59
jrwrenimo memorizing patterns is not useful.19:18
brouschjrwren: so you support the pattern memorization anti-pattern?19:25
snap-ljrwren: I don't want to remember the patterns, just remember the stupid terminology19:25
snap-lso when someone says they're using the frobozz pattern, I know what they're talking about19:25
jrwrenah, lik ehow i just dropped dtrategy above?19:31
jrwrenzomg, this KB has go to go19:31
jrwrenif it lives up to the description, its exactly for what i've been looking. http://www.tdd-django-tutorial.com/?utm_source=Python+Weekly+Newsletter&utm_campaign=000b7d6a9b-Python_Weekly_Issue_36_May_24_2012&utm_medium=email19:36
rick_h_jrwren: so I peeked at that and the first stuff off the bat are selenium tests so I'm not sure it's the thing to go from19:36
rick_h_but I've not gone through it all, so disclaimer away19:36
brouschjrwren: that's the one i started going through19:38
brouschmy testing skills are non-existant, so i'm hoping it will help19:39
brouschthe biggest problem with venturing into djangoland is that so many things are not rick_h_-approved yet19:41
nullspaceI just wanted to share this you all: http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/best_birthday_prank_ever.gif20:06
brouschwhat's the vaseline for?20:09
snap-lIf there was any doubt about Linode being awesome, let me assure you there is no doubt.20:30
snap-lsave for using cold fusion for their support e-mail20:31
greg-goh right, I never heard a response from Ting20:31
snap-lgreg-g: Really? That's odd.20:32
greg-gnot that I was notified about... /me searches20:32
snap-lhttps://z6oc11q87.ting.com/ <- Handy referral link, in case anyone is interested.20:34
greg-gsnap-l: intersting, I don't get the same message anymore, but I'm on Ubuntu now (before it was Debian)20:36
greg-gbefore I re-ping them, I'm going to confirm at home20:36
snap-lThey're definitely saying all the right things20:39
jrwrenanyone have local colo recommendations?20:45
rick_h_jrwren: waveform is cheap, but ok20:46
rick_h_I had one/two downtimes a year that were a bit nuts, think longest was 36 hours in several years20:47
rick_h_and their support setup leaves a lot to be desired, see my current disagrement with them on closing my account20:47
brouschmy gosh, testing is tedious20:48
rick_h_brousch: :) it gets easier if that helps20:48
rick_h_but yes, testing == coding20:48
rick_h_it takes time and refactoring to get right20:48
brouschseems like it will get more tedious20:48
rick_h_naw, easier20:49
brouschi think i need to change how i look at it or i will never do it20:49
brouschchange it from "something all of the good coders tell me i need to do" to a sort of challenge that's fun20:50
nullspaceif you don't test how do you know it will work20:50
brouschnullspace: i totally understand the rationale20:50
brouschbelieve me. i have a GB of Visual Basic in Access with no tests where i cross my fingers on every tweak20:51
nullspacereason #1 why I like web coding, I can test several times and it's doubful I'll break my own machine20:51
brouschwhat kind of coding would break your machine?20:52
rick_h_apt-get install java :P20:52
nullspacebrousch: please never talk to me about that again, I'm going to to get the code sweats tonight because of that sentance20:52
nullspacerick_h_: very funny20:52
rick_h_I thought so :)20:52
brouschnullspace: sweats from the GB of Access?20:53
nullspacegah your talking about it20:53
brouschi've been curating this monstrosity for a decade20:53
nullspacekill it with fire already20:54
brouschi'm working on it ;)20:54
brouschi kind of like the selenium tests20:56
brouschlittke brwoser pops up and does stuff20:57
shakes8081Have a good weekened all21:37

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