[03:24] I am getting this error when trying to upload to github: [03:24] ! [rejected] master -> master (non-fast-forward) [03:24] error: failed to push some refs to 'MY FILE PATH' [03:24] To prevent you from losing history, non-fast-forward updates were rejected [03:24] Merge the remote changes (e.g. 'git pull') before pushing again. See the [03:24] 'Note about fast-forwards' section of 'git push --help' for details. [03:44] got it, had to pull because of the README file [03:50] damn, i just found old pictures from penguicon. definitely going next year. greg-g you have to go too dude [03:50] ... I uploaded 4 files and now they are gone from my box and not on github [03:50] where would they have gone? [11:11] bah, so picasa and G+ merging is near complete it appears [11:34] good morning [11:41] gm [11:41] Good morning [11:42] Awesome shirt [11:42] http://shirt.woot.com/ [11:42] btw: I played way too long with civicrm last night [11:42] snap-l: :) [11:42] snap-l: what? [11:42] any success? [11:42] http://www.mug.org/meetings/ [11:42] That's auto-generated [11:43] Membership stuff is proving a little tricky [11:43] Apparently WP did some changes to how it munged URLs, and civicrm hasn't caught up [11:44] Bah, there's a new version [11:44] Wonder if it has the love I'm looking for [11:47] Hm, don't think so, but it looks promising [11:47] but, it does have membership management [11:48] you can modify how wordpress generates urls [11:48] So I think we can get more current [11:48] brousch: right, but 3.3.2 apparently busted one of the methods [11:48] and I didn't find an alternate [11:48] and it was 1am [12:42] i got the go-ahead to buy a tablet for our project manager at work so he can bring all of the drawings into the field, take dimensions and photos, access email [12:42] this'll be fun [12:52] yawn [12:56] nullspace: are we keeping you awake? [12:59] nullspace: take a look at this, maybe make you laugh for a moment and amuse you to stay awake for the next 5 mins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqJxyuTMMog&feature=endscreen&NR=1 [13:04] just needed some coffee [13:05] snap-l: how goes the web dev job...? [13:44] i'm looking at a eee pad transformer tf101g tablet. it has "Mobile broadband: GSM Quad bands, HSPA+ (I,II,V,VIII)". anyone know if that means it will work on ATT? [13:50] http://9gag.com/gag/4258072 [13:50] Guitar Hero is now on Linux [13:53] o_O [13:53] hahahahah [13:55] I'm an uncaring bastard [13:55] Reading mailing lists where someone say "I'm having such and such problem with Windows because ..." [13:55] and all I see is "... because I'm not running Linux" [13:55] shameful [13:56] its a fair thought. [13:56] i used to have it often when running windows. [13:57] "Linux would NEVER take this long to login, and even if it did, I'd be able to fix it." I still have that every time I login to my windows machine (which is only monthly) [13:57] jrwren: It's mostly gcc errors, or other environmental errors [13:59] ugh. [13:59] cygwin? [13:59] something of that ilk, yes [14:38] ok, this is kind of cool http://www.jacobian.org/writing/auto-building-sphinx/ [15:09] how's the weather up there guys? [15:09] shorts or jeans? [15:10] shorts, hot stuff [15:10] 85 today [15:10] ugh, 90 by monday [15:10] when does my flight to portland leave? [15:10] it's been raining here [15:10] they say rain sat some, but we'll see [15:12] you are going to portland?!? *jealous* [15:12] no, I want to move there [15:12] but wife won't let me [15:13] hot days like this makes my desire to move greater [15:13] rick_h_: The spirit of the 90s is still alive, in portland. [15:13] woot! [15:13] everyone wants to live in their high school years right? [15:13] rick_h_: portland is at the top of my list too. [15:13] oh damn, i quoted it wrong. [15:14] The dream of the 90s is still alive in portland [15:14] doh, close enough for me [15:14] still want to go [15:14] currently 51 in portland [15:14] You know, the 1990s where piercings and working in coffee shops and forming bands were actual things that people did. [15:14] high today of 58 woot! [15:14] 73 tomorrow, oooh...so perfect [15:17] i read that once global warming really kicks in West MI will have weather similar to Portland's now [15:18] What exactly was the dream of the nineties? TO be a bunch of hipster hippie wannabies? [15:18] brousch: i can't wait to move to South Haven. [15:18] snap-l: to spend a small fortune on AC? [15:18] snap-l: grunge was WAY before hipster. [15:19] Best thing Kurt Cobain did for music was pulling a trigger [15:19] grunge ftw :) /me goes looking for his collection of black jeans, black flannels, and black metallica shirts [15:19] snap-l: oh come on. Billy Ho is a fun song. [15:19] That's not grunge. That's Goth from Hot Topic [15:19] this is when you learn that snap-l is a little bit ahead of us in terms of time [15:19] psh, this was pre hot topic by about a decade or two [15:20] he'd have to be. have you seen his prog rock listen list? [15:20] no, I appreciate snap-l's passion for music, but don't know we share much in actual tastes [15:20] Nirvana's "Nevermind" wasn't a cool title, it was sage advice for future generations [15:20] nirvana unplugged in new york is still the best album ever made [15:20] lol [15:20] EVAR [15:20] LOL. [15:20] bullshit. [15:20] and i honestly feel sorry for you if you believe that. [15:21] I had the album. I listened to it. I got bored [15:21] i could listen to it 12 hours a day [15:21] Smashing Pumpkins Gish: Listened. Liked. Got Bored. Sold. [15:21] snap-l: same [15:21] Soundgarden Badmotorfinger: Listened. Meh. Got Bored. Sold. [15:21] smashing pumpkins voice is annoying [15:21] pumpkins! [15:22] snap-l: but i feel that way for most music of that style and esp that era. [15:22] * rick_h_ goes back to his weezer/greenday playlist [15:22] although for some reason Catherine Wheel comes to mind and I want to listen to it. [15:22] now we're talkin [15:22] I respect Billy, I think he's a great musician [15:22] * jrwren is listening ot Laibach :) [15:22] man, I found the voices annoying of AC/DC and Beastie Boys... [15:22] but it's not something I want to listen to more than once [15:22] pumpkins, never a problem [15:22] mayonaise ftw! [15:23] The 90s made Thrash Metal go away [15:23] axle rose has the best voice [15:23] is that a song on an album? sounds familiar. [15:23] and now Thrash is back [15:23] I rue the grunge revival [15:23] i'm very picky with metal. just a few bands I like [15:24] Fortunately with Metal now having an internet network, I don't have to participate. [15:24] YAY! [15:25] Y'all can have your Alice in Chains, your Social Distortion, your Bush, your Hootie and the fuckin' Blowfish [15:25] jrwren: yea, it's a pumpkin tune I'm particular to [15:25] oh man, AIC, Social D yes! [15:25] hootie...ummm...that's chick stuff :P [15:25] spin doctors [15:25] 12 hours clockwork orange style with Rick and my music collection. That's all I ask. [15:25] I do like AiC [15:26] then again my first CD ever bought was Metallica Black [15:26] rick_h_: Oh ffs [15:26] alice in chains unplugged is also awesome [15:26] yea, dirt is awesome [15:26] dirt and facelift [15:26] snap-l: I had some cassettes before that, but not a ton, but I got into music in the black, perl jam, etc era [15:26] (though my first CD was Byran Adams, so I have no room to talk) [15:27] hah, I had one of those [15:27] that reminds me, i downloaded some Prince that I want to listen to [15:27] speaking of things I could never get into [15:27] wtf do people find in Prince? [15:27] :P [15:27] my first tape was dj jazzy jeff and the fresh prince [15:27] VERY hit and miss. [15:27] lol [15:27] First Three Discs: Bryan Adams: INto the Fire, Bon Jovie: Slippery when wet, and Joe Jackson: Big World. [15:27] Guess which of the three I still have [15:27] bon jovia? omg [15:28] * brousch unsubscribes from OMC [15:28] what is the Joe Jackson like? [15:28] hah, used to listen to jovi in elementry school during lunch break [15:28] I really know nothing about him. [15:28] I'm with jrwren, "who?" [15:28] OK, start with Look Sharp [15:28] move through Night and Day [15:28] and then Blaze of Glory [15:29] then purchase the rest of his catalog [15:29] really???? [15:29] Yep [15:29] you are that pro Joe? [15:29] i only know him from one song he did with Shatner. [15:29] I love his stuff [15:29] He's a musician's Musician [15:29] Put it another way: ANthrax covered Got The Time [15:30] I tried for months to try to get my high-school band Blackat Chiquita to cover it [15:30] suddenly Anthrax covers it, and I'm a visionary. :) [15:31] jrwren: You might not like the earlier stuff. Not sure if you like New Wave [15:31] But he moves out of that in Night and Day [15:32] And Blaze of Glory shows a more mature musician. [15:35] oh, for you geeks with children, this book is pretty cool http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0756690153/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00 [15:42] ok, this is a weird question, but when and what song is that jock jams song ? [15:42] you know. THAT jock jams song. [15:44] Gary Glitter - Rock'n Roll 1972. WOW, I had no idea that was that old. [15:45] I ask becuase I'm LMAO at Doctorin' The Tardis by The Timelords. [16:33] jrwren: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ3NDP-Qiak [16:34] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK5c4O-pKec [16:34] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNvRTwNzTr8 [16:35] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dopneKcyNXU [16:36] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUjn2Q5oIBY [16:38] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcd4f6dMHUk [16:56] ummm... https://github.com/languages [16:56] Fuck, Ada doesn't even rank [16:57] <_stink_> hah [16:57] coffeescript makes the list now :/ [16:57] brousch: material for your meet up ^^ [16:57] rick_h_: Yeah, everyone's rewriting their Javascript todolist applications in it. [16:58] I'll wager all of that Javascript yet another god-damn framework and jQuery plugins [16:58] "Forked project blah blah because that jackass wouldn't accept my color scheme" [16:59] lol [17:28] django has good docs my @#$#@ [17:29] no, no. django has many docs [17:30] so they're called "Api" docs [17:30] but they don't show the api [17:31] so I go "well...that's retarded it can't do XX" [17:31] and then later find a blog post saying "Pass this kwarg that wasn't in the "api" docs" [17:31] some might even be empty or just include a header, description and some references [17:31] https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/forms/api/#ref-forms-api-bound-unbound seems like the place to find out about binding data to a form [17:31] but nothing mentions the instance kwarg... [17:32] I've got to go find this: http://www.ironzebra.com/news/3/how-to-quickly-create-a-django-edit-form-from-object-instance [17:32] *sigh* [17:36] forms are one of their painpoints [17:37] there are a couple of newer modules that are supposedly better [17:37] but it's all magical and unicorns! [17:37] the docs are > * [17:38] django-uni-form [17:38] django-floppyforms [17:39] i think floppy is the current hotness [17:39] djangofloppyform [17:39] s [17:44] !@#@! I can't even just import the damn thing in bpython because I need a settings crap setup first? [17:44] you've got to be kidding me [17:45] uh oh [17:45] * greg-g steps away from rick_h_ and covers himself with a heat shield [17:46] I mean seriously..who ever heard of not being able to import a module until you've done config/setup first? [17:46] this is the great python hope... "I'm sorry...you've not declared your intentions. I can't let you import that module at all" [17:46] rick_h_: Apparently Django developers have. [17:47] this is what you get when you let newspaper people run things :P [17:49] and this silently fail template BS is for the birds [17:50] ok, ready to do battle. Downloaded Django and have it open in an editor so I can view the api while I work [17:50] this is truly what linux workspaces were meant for...fixing stupid docs [17:50] have I mentioned lately that if you can't read source code go read some now? :) [17:51] heh [17:53] rick_h_: django settings? [17:53] jrwren: yea, if you just do a fresh venv, and instlal django, and launch python [17:53] you can't import certain modules because you lack django settings [17:54] yup [17:54] from django.config import settings [17:54] I just want to explore the freaking code in the shell, I'm not trying to run [17:54] all you need AFAIK [17:54] http://paste.mitechie.com/show/676/ [17:55] maybe you need to make a project [17:55] and empty project [17:55] I just want to browse the code, not setup a project. [17:56] it wants me to setup an ENV like I'm running stuff, but I'm not [17:56] ah, i see [17:56] you know me...always "doing it wrong" [17:56] :P [17:57] Maybe it's you. :) [17:57] I'm sure it is [17:57] remind me not to taunt rick_h_. He knows where I live [17:57] and where i work [17:57] quit exploring. just do what the docs tell you to do! [17:57] though I do feel a little better that the requests library author favorited that tweet [17:57] brousch: I would but the docs don't tell me :P [17:58] He'll go all Jeff Foxworthy on me. "Here's your spine" [17:58] snap-l: yea, I might still have backdoor access to rm -rf your git repos :P [17:58] (and don't correct me if I'm wrong on the comic. I really don't care) [17:58] isn't jeff foxworth "you might be a redneck"? [17:58] brousch: see above [17:59] FIX IT [17:59] NO [17:59] rick_h_: oh yeah, you need a settings.py [17:59] django can't run without it. [17:59] rick_h_: what module wouldn't install without config? [17:59] and I know you aren't "running" it, but it can't do much of anthing without settings. an empty settings module might be fine [18:01] brousch: any python module in the world you can import and dir(something) [18:01] right, but which one wouldn't? [18:01] jrwren: yea, I've just opened the django up in vim and doing pure source. [18:01] rick_h_: that is great too. [18:02] jrwren: yea, except for my linting going nuts lol [18:02] rick_h_: i was able to trick it by touching __init__.py and settings.py and starting ipython with DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE=settings [18:02] jrwren: right, I just think that's retarded as hell as a python dev [18:02] therefor I shall rant to the world! [18:02] i'm not enough of a python dev to know [18:04] so I've been working on learning/hacking in python for coming up on 5yrs and I think this is the first time I recall ever hitting something like this [18:22] *nod* [18:23] rick_h_: well now you're finally using enterprise-class python modules instead of those toy projects [18:23] * brousch peers to the east in anticipation of the nuclear mushroom cloud [18:24] jrwren: you ever run into guys that just hate the idea of mocking out methods/etc for tests? [18:27] rick_h_: what are tests? :) [18:27] rick_h_: i am a guy who hatest mocking out methods for tests. [18:27] i really cant stand mocks. [18:27] but i guess they are a necessarily evil. [18:28] jrwren: so do you end up creating subclasses and things of the existing code and having hidden _fake params to classes so you can fake out parts of the code? [18:34] rick_h_: in python? no way. [18:34] rick_h_: inverse the dependencies and inject teh fakes [18:35] I'm trying to understand this other guy in my squad. He's all about subclassing things, overwriting the method I would mock with Mock, and then using it for things [18:35] so obviously I'm a fan of fakes when it comes to mocking :) [18:35] rick_h_: that is a valid way to do it when you can refactor to inject. [18:35] but he ends up with classes that take _something where _something is only provided in tests to inject a fake object [18:35] it is straight out of "Working Effectively With Legacy Code" [18:35] and I'm just wonder why not use the tools available and patch the object with somehting fake [18:36] but if you are testing first, you would never come up with that. [18:36] rick_h_: maybe he did too much java in the past :) [18:36] yea, but that's also limited to java in a lot of ways where you can't do as much direct monkey patching fakes in place [18:36] rick_h_: exactly [18:36] rick_h_: but you can always inverse dependencies. [18:36] there is something to be said for the overall pattern of dependency injection, though [18:36] rick_h_: its why Java has the Factory Factory Factory problem. [18:37] because you can't have virtual constructors. [18:37] having all your dependencies listed up front can be useful [18:37] yea, I need to sit down and get educated because I just look at it and it seems like so much pointless litter among the code [18:37] Blazeix: yeah, its applicable in python for sure. [18:37] but when I changed it once I got asked to change it back [18:37] hell, its straight up strategy pattern and its just that one of your strategies is for test. [18:37] so the guy's been doing python a long while and worked on big things like bzr/etc [18:37] rick_h_: is this the code you showed me? that wasn't dependency injection though, [18:37] so I know he's a smart guy, but obviously opinionated in this stuff [18:38] he was just subclassing/overriding, i thought [18:38] Blazeix: that's an exmaple, today he flat has a def __init__(self, _curl=None): [18:38] ah ok [18:38] where _curl is just there to insert a fake curl object he creates [18:38] right, that's a pretty popular pattern in the .NET/java world [18:39] right, but I don't get that in the python world so much [18:39] because he's doing: + if _curl is None: [18:39] 62 + _curl = pycurl.Curl() [18:39] but could just do with patched(pycurl, "Curl") as mock: ... [18:39] sure, the monkey patching thing is pretty awesome too. i do think inverted dependencies are more readable, though [18:41] I'm sorry, but did anyone else see "bzr code" and immediately think "his whole argument is suspect"? [18:42] (the rick_h_ developer partner, not rick_h_ ) [18:42] heh, well I'm not fan of bzr, but the guys behind it can write some python [18:44] oh, i didn't catch the code sample rick_h_ pasted [18:44] so he's not actually gaining any loose coupling benefits [18:44] Blazeix: not that I can tell [18:44] but I've seen the pattern before in other code [18:44] ok, that is a little bit weird [18:46] snap-l: yes, but I didn't say anything :) [18:46] at some point I'll have to get him a few drinks and have him explain his thoughts behind the stuff [18:46] he's a bit defensive/etc ootb so didn't push too hard :) [18:46] rick_h_: oh, that is the inversion thing to which I was refering. So i'd probably do it his way too. [18:47] but its only because its what I am familiar with. [18:47] jrwren: yea, I'm not trying to trash it, but I'm not seeing the immediate advantages so curious what I'm missing [18:47] I mean some things are just matters of taste, but even that can often have some particular bug/issue that created that taste [18:48] I think all of LP teams have done too much Java...I mean Python via Zope :P [18:48] yeah, his specific pattern doesn't seem super useful, but next CHC i can show you where it gets useful if you take it one step further [18:49] Blazeix: cool, we'll melt shakes8081's brain with an all out testing patterns discussion :) [18:49] hah [18:51] rick_h_: BRING IT ON!!!!! [18:51] lol [18:53] DAMNIT. WHY AM I SO FAR AWAY FROM THE AWESOME? [18:54] rick_h_: Does the "testing pattern discussion" incorperate what I am learning? Or is it for a much later headache? [18:54] shakes8081: later [18:54] I remember going to MichiPug meetings and they'd be talking over my head on stuff [18:55] but learn a lot and slowly catch up, it could be one of those if we let it [18:55] Well Obe Won'Ricknobe, whatever you think is best ;) [18:57] hmmm, I can't decide if I like this or not... https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/forms/modelforms/#the-save-method [18:57] it seems strange for the form object to save the model [18:57] If it's any consolation, I'm still design-pattern deficient [18:57] of course you don't like it. it's django [18:58] brousch: naw, if it was that I'd be like "WTF?! What moron decided that this was a good thing?" [18:58] I'm much milder...so it means I'm thinking about it still :) [18:58] can you use any of the newer form modules? [18:58] not currently [18:58] I'm assuming they'd do that part the same [18:59] i've been watching all of the old djangocon talks to pick up on stuff [18:59] snap-l: we can learn together lol [19:18] imo memorizing patterns is not useful. [19:25] jrwren: so you support the pattern memorization anti-pattern? [19:25] jrwren: I don't want to remember the patterns, just remember the stupid terminology [19:25] so when someone says they're using the frobozz pattern, I know what they're talking about [19:31] ah, lik ehow i just dropped dtrategy above? [19:31] zomg, this KB has go to go [19:32] precisely [19:36] if it lives up to the description, its exactly for what i've been looking. http://www.tdd-django-tutorial.com/?utm_source=Python+Weekly+Newsletter&utm_campaign=000b7d6a9b-Python_Weekly_Issue_36_May_24_2012&utm_medium=email [19:36] jrwren: so I peeked at that and the first stuff off the bat are selenium tests so I'm not sure it's the thing to go from [19:36] but I've not gone through it all, so disclaimer away [19:38] ugh [19:38] jrwren: that's the one i started going through [19:39] my testing skills are non-existant, so i'm hoping it will help [19:41] the biggest problem with venturing into djangoland is that so many things are not rick_h_-approved yet [20:06] I just wanted to share this you all: http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/best_birthday_prank_ever.gif [20:09] what's the vaseline for? [20:09] worst_title_ever.gif [20:09] fake_joke_about_butt_sex.gif [20:30] If there was any doubt about Linode being awesome, let me assure you there is no doubt. [20:31] save for using cold fusion for their support e-mail [20:31] oh right, I never heard a response from Ting [20:32] greg-g: Really? That's odd. [20:32] not that I was notified about... /me searches [20:34] https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/ <- Handy referral link, in case anyone is interested. [20:36] snap-l: intersting, I don't get the same message anymore, but I'm on Ubuntu now (before it was Debian) [20:36] before I re-ping them, I'm going to confirm at home [20:38] https://help.ting.com/entries/21421238-sprint-unlocking-phones-did-it-ever-happen [20:39] They're definitely saying all the right things [20:45] anyone have local colo recommendations? [20:46] jrwren: waveform is cheap, but ok [20:47] I had one/two downtimes a year that were a bit nuts, think longest was 36 hours in several years [20:47] and their support setup leaves a lot to be desired, see my current disagrement with them on closing my account [20:48] my gosh, testing is tedious [20:48] brousch: :) it gets easier if that helps [20:48] but yes, testing == coding [20:48] it takes time and refactoring to get right [20:48] seems like it will get more tedious [20:49] naw, easier [20:49] i think i need to change how i look at it or i will never do it [20:50] change it from "something all of the good coders tell me i need to do" to a sort of challenge that's fun [20:50] if you don't test how do you know it will work [20:50] nullspace: i totally understand the rationale [20:51] believe me. i have a GB of Visual Basic in Access with no tests where i cross my fingers on every tweak [20:51] reason #1 why I like web coding, I can test several times and it's doubful I'll break my own machine [20:52] what kind of coding would break your machine? [20:52] apt-get install java :P [20:52] brousch: please never talk to me about that again, I'm going to to get the code sweats tonight because of that sentance [20:52] rick_h_: very funny [20:52] I thought so :) [20:53] nullspace: sweats from the GB of Access? [20:53] gah your talking about it [20:53] i've been curating this monstrosity for a decade [20:54] kill it with fire already [20:54] i'm working on it ;) [20:56] i kind of like the selenium tests [20:57] littke brwoser pops up and does stuff [21:37] Have a good weekened all