[03:24] <shakes808> I am getting this error when trying to upload to github:
[03:24] <shakes808>  ! [rejected]        master -> master (non-fast-forward)
[03:24] <shakes808> error: failed to push some refs to 'MY FILE PATH'
[03:24] <shakes808> To prevent you from losing history, non-fast-forward updates were rejected
[03:24] <shakes808> Merge the remote changes (e.g. 'git pull') before pushing again.  See the
[03:24] <shakes808> 'Note about fast-forwards' section of 'git push --help' for details.
[03:44] <shakes808> got it, had to pull because of the README file
[03:50] <nixternal> damn, i just found old pictures from penguicon. definitely going next year. greg-g you have to go too dude
[03:50] <shakes808> ... I uploaded 4 files and now they are gone from my box and not on github
[03:50] <shakes808> where would they have gone?
[11:11] <rick_h_> bah, so picasa and G+ merging is near complete it appears
[11:34] <shakes808> good morning
[11:41] <brousch> gm
[11:41] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:42] <shakes808> Awesome shirt
[11:42] <shakes808> http://shirt.woot.com/
[11:42] <snap-l> btw: I played way too long with civicrm last night
[11:42] <rick_h_> snap-l: :)
[11:42] <shakes808> snap-l: what?
[11:42] <rick_h_> any success?
[11:42] <snap-l> http://www.mug.org/meetings/
[11:42] <snap-l> That's auto-generated
[11:43] <snap-l> Membership stuff is proving a little tricky
[11:43] <snap-l> Apparently WP did some changes to how it munged URLs, and civicrm hasn't caught up
[11:44] <snap-l> Bah, there's a new version
[11:44] <snap-l> Wonder if it has the love I'm looking for
[11:47] <snap-l> Hm, don't think so, but it looks promising
[11:47] <snap-l> but, it does have membership management
[11:48] <brousch> you can modify how wordpress generates urls
[11:48] <snap-l> So I think we can get more current
[11:48] <snap-l> brousch: right, but 3.3.2 apparently busted one of the methods
[11:48] <snap-l> and I didn't find an alternate
[11:48] <snap-l> and it was 1am
[12:42] <brousch> i got the go-ahead to buy a tablet for our project manager at work so he can bring all of the drawings into the field, take dimensions and photos, access email
[12:42] <brousch> this'll be fun
[12:52] <nullspace> yawn
[12:56] <snap-l> nullspace: are we keeping you awake?
[12:59] <shakes808> nullspace: take a look at this, maybe make you laugh for a moment and amuse you to stay awake for the next 5 mins http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqJxyuTMMog&feature=endscreen&NR=1
[13:04] <nullspace> just needed some coffee
[13:05] <nullspace> snap-l: how goes the web dev job...?
[13:44] <brousch> i'm looking at a eee pad transformer tf101g tablet. it has "Mobile broadband: GSM Quad bands, HSPA+ (I,II,V,VIII)". anyone know if that means it will work on ATT?
[13:50] <snap-l> http://9gag.com/gag/4258072
[13:50] <snap-l> Guitar Hero is now on Linux
[13:53] <jrwren> o_O
[13:53] <jrwren> hahahahah
[13:55] <snap-l> I'm an uncaring bastard
[13:55] <snap-l> Reading mailing lists where someone say "I'm having such and such problem with Windows because ..."
[13:55] <snap-l> and all I see is "... because I'm not running Linux"
[13:55] <snap-l> shameful
[13:56] <jrwren> its a fair thought.
[13:56] <jrwren> i used to have it often when running windows.
[13:57] <jrwren> "Linux would NEVER take this long to login, and even if it did, I'd be able to fix it."   I still have that every time I login to my windows machine (which is only monthly)
[13:57] <snap-l> jrwren: It's mostly gcc errors, or other environmental errors
[13:59] <jrwren> ugh.
[13:59] <jrwren> cygwin?
[13:59] <snap-l> something of that ilk, yes
[14:38] <brousch> ok, this is kind of cool http://www.jacobian.org/writing/auto-building-sphinx/
[15:09] <jcastro> how's the weather up there guys?
[15:09] <jcastro> shorts or jeans?
[15:10] <rick_h_> shorts, hot stuff
[15:10] <rick_h_> 85 today
[15:10] <rick_h_> ugh, 90 by monday
[15:10] <rick_h_> when does my flight to portland leave?
[15:10] <jcastro> it's been raining here
[15:10] <rick_h_> they say rain sat some, but we'll see
[15:12] <jrwren> you are going to portland?!? *jealous*
[15:12] <rick_h_> no, I want to move there
[15:12] <rick_h_> but wife won't let me
[15:13] <rick_h_> hot days like this makes my desire to move greater
[15:13] <jrwren> rick_h_: The spirit of the 90s is still alive, in portland.
[15:13] <rick_h_> woot!
[15:13] <rick_h_> everyone wants to live in their high school years right?
[15:13] <jrwren> rick_h_: portland is at the top of my list too.
[15:13] <jrwren> oh damn, i quoted it wrong.
[15:14] <jrwren> The dream of the 90s is still alive in portland
[15:14] <rick_h_> doh, close enough for me
[15:14] <rick_h_> still want to go
[15:14] <rick_h_> currently 51 in portland
[15:14] <jrwren> You know, the 1990s where piercings and working in coffee shops and forming bands were actual things that people did.
[15:14] <rick_h_> high today of 58 woot!
[15:14] <rick_h_> 73 tomorrow, oooh...so perfect
[15:17] <brousch> i read that once global warming really kicks in West MI will have weather similar to Portland's now
[15:18] <snap-l> What exactly was the dream of the nineties? TO be a bunch of hipster hippie wannabies?
[15:18] <jrwren> brousch: i can't wait to move to South Haven.
[15:18] <rick_h_> snap-l: to spend a small fortune on AC?
[15:18] <jrwren> snap-l: grunge was WAY before hipster.
[15:19] <snap-l> Best thing Kurt Cobain did for music was pulling a trigger
[15:19] <rick_h_> grunge ftw :) /me goes looking for his collection of black jeans, black flannels, and black metallica shirts
[15:19] <jrwren> snap-l: oh come on. Billy Ho is a fun song.
[15:19] <snap-l> That's not grunge. That's Goth from Hot Topic
[15:19] <rick_h_> this is when you learn that snap-l is a little bit ahead of us in terms of time
[15:19] <rick_h_> psh, this was pre hot topic by about a decade or two
[15:20] <jrwren> he'd have to be. have you seen his prog rock listen list?
[15:20] <rick_h_> no, I appreciate snap-l's passion for music, but don't know we share much in actual tastes
[15:20] <snap-l> Nirvana's "Nevermind" wasn't a cool title, it was sage advice for future generations
[15:20] <brousch> nirvana unplugged in new york is still the best album ever made
[15:20] <rick_h_> lol
[15:20] <brousch> EVAR
[15:20] <jrwren> LOL.
[15:20] <jrwren> bullshit.
[15:20] <jrwren> and i honestly feel sorry for you if you believe that.
[15:21] <snap-l> I had the album. I listened to it. I got bored
[15:21] <brousch> i could listen to it 12 hours a day
[15:21] <snap-l> Smashing Pumpkins Gish: Listened. Liked. Got Bored. Sold.
[15:21] <jrwren> snap-l: same
[15:21] <snap-l> Soundgarden Badmotorfinger: Listened. Meh. Got Bored. Sold.
[15:21] <brousch> smashing pumpkins voice is annoying
[15:21] <rick_h_> pumpkins!
[15:22] <jrwren> snap-l: but i feel that way for most music of that style and esp that era.
[15:22]  * rick_h_ goes back to his weezer/greenday playlist
[15:22] <jrwren> although for some reason Catherine Wheel comes to mind and I want to listen to it.
[15:22] <brousch> now we're talkin
[15:22] <snap-l> I respect Billy, I think he's a great musician
[15:22]  * jrwren is listening ot Laibach :)
[15:22] <rick_h_> man, I found the voices annoying of AC/DC and Beastie Boys...
[15:22] <snap-l> but it's not something I want to listen to more than once
[15:22] <rick_h_> pumpkins, never a problem
[15:22] <rick_h_> mayonaise ftw!
[15:23] <snap-l> The 90s made Thrash Metal go away
[15:23] <brousch> axle rose has the best voice
[15:23] <jrwren> is that a song on an album? sounds familiar.
[15:23] <snap-l> and now Thrash is back
[15:23] <snap-l> I rue the grunge revival
[15:23] <jrwren> i'm very picky with metal. just a few bands I like
[15:24] <snap-l> Fortunately with Metal now having an internet network, I don't have to participate.
[15:24] <jrwren> YAY!
[15:25] <snap-l> Y'all can have your Alice in Chains, your Social Distortion, your Bush, your Hootie and the fuckin' Blowfish
[15:25] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, it's a pumpkin tune I'm particular to
[15:25] <rick_h_> oh man, AIC, Social D yes!
[15:25] <rick_h_> hootie...ummm...that's chick stuff :P
[15:25] <brousch> spin doctors
[15:25] <snap-l> 12 hours clockwork orange style with Rick and my music collection. That's all I ask.
[15:25] <jrwren> I do like AiC
[15:26] <rick_h_> then again my first CD ever bought was Metallica Black
[15:26] <snap-l> rick_h_: Oh ffs
[15:26] <brousch> alice in chains unplugged is also awesome
[15:26] <rick_h_> yea, dirt is awesome
[15:26] <jrwren> dirt and facelift
[15:26] <rick_h_> snap-l: I had some cassettes before that, but not a ton, but I got into music in the black, perl jam, etc era
[15:26] <snap-l> (though my first CD was Byran Adams, so I have no room to talk)
[15:27] <rick_h_> hah, I had one of those
[15:27] <jrwren> that reminds me, i downloaded some Prince that I want to listen to
[15:27] <rick_h_> speaking of things I could never get into
[15:27] <rick_h_> wtf do people find in Prince?
[15:27] <rick_h_> :P
[15:27] <brousch> my first tape was dj jazzy jeff and the fresh prince
[15:27] <jrwren> VERY hit and miss.
[15:27] <rick_h_> lol
[15:27] <snap-l> First Three Discs: Bryan Adams: INto the Fire, Bon Jovie: Slippery when wet, and Joe Jackson: Big World.
[15:27] <snap-l> Guess which of the three I still have
[15:27] <brousch> bon jovia? omg
[15:28]  * brousch unsubscribes from OMC
[15:28] <jrwren> what is the Joe Jackson like?
[15:28] <rick_h_> hah, used to listen to jovi in elementry school during lunch break
[15:28] <jrwren> I really know nothing about him.
[15:28] <rick_h_> I'm with jrwren, "who?"
[15:28] <snap-l> OK, start with Look Sharp
[15:28] <snap-l> move through Night and Day
[15:28] <snap-l> and then Blaze of Glory
[15:29] <snap-l> then purchase the rest of his catalog
[15:29] <jrwren> really????
[15:29] <snap-l> Yep
[15:29] <jrwren> you are that pro Joe?
[15:29] <jrwren> i only know him from one song he did with Shatner.
[15:29] <snap-l> I love his stuff
[15:29] <snap-l> He's a musician's Musician
[15:29] <snap-l> Put it another way: ANthrax covered Got The Time
[15:30] <snap-l> I tried for months to try to get my high-school band Blackat Chiquita to cover it
[15:30] <snap-l> suddenly Anthrax covers it, and I'm a visionary. :)
[15:31] <snap-l> jrwren: You might not like the earlier stuff. Not sure if you like New Wave
[15:31] <snap-l> But he moves out of that in Night and Day
[15:32] <snap-l> And Blaze of Glory shows a more mature musician.
[15:35] <brousch> oh, for you geeks with children, this book is pretty cool http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0756690153/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00
[15:42] <jrwren> ok, this is a weird question, but when and what song is that jock jams song ?
[15:42] <jrwren> you know. THAT jock jams song.
[15:44] <jrwren> Gary Glitter - Rock'n Roll 1972. WOW, I had no idea that was that old.
[15:45] <jrwren> I ask becuase I'm LMAO at Doctorin' The Tardis by The Timelords.
[16:33] <snap-l> jrwren: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ3NDP-Qiak
[16:34] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aK5c4O-pKec
[16:34] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNvRTwNzTr8
[16:35] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dopneKcyNXU
[16:36] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUjn2Q5oIBY
[16:38] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcd4f6dMHUk
[16:56] <rick_h_> ummm... https://github.com/languages
[16:56] <snap-l> Fuck, Ada doesn't even rank
[16:57] <_stink_> hah
[16:57] <rick_h_> coffeescript makes the list now :/
[16:57] <rick_h_> brousch: material for your meet up ^^
[16:57] <snap-l> rick_h_: Yeah, everyone's rewriting their Javascript todolist applications in it.
[16:58] <snap-l> I'll wager all of that Javascript yet another god-damn framework and jQuery plugins
[16:58] <snap-l> "Forked project blah blah because that jackass wouldn't accept my color scheme"
[16:59] <rick_h_> lol
[17:28] <rick_h_> django has good docs my @#$#@
[17:29] <brousch> no, no. django has many docs
[17:30] <rick_h_> so they're called "Api" docs
[17:30] <rick_h_> but they don't show the api
[17:31] <rick_h_> so I go "well...that's retarded it can't do XX"
[17:31] <rick_h_> and then later find a blog post saying "Pass this kwarg that wasn't in the "api" docs"
[17:31] <nullspace> some might even be empty or just include a header, description and some references
[17:31] <rick_h_> https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/forms/api/#ref-forms-api-bound-unbound seems like the place to find out about binding data to a form
[17:31] <rick_h_> but nothing mentions the instance kwarg...
[17:32] <rick_h_> I've got to go find this: http://www.ironzebra.com/news/3/how-to-quickly-create-a-django-edit-form-from-object-instance
[17:32] <rick_h_> *sigh*
[17:36] <brousch> forms are one of their painpoints
[17:37] <brousch> there are a couple of newer modules that are supposedly better
[17:37] <rick_h_> but it's all magical and unicorns!
[17:37] <rick_h_> the docs are > *
[17:38] <brousch> django-uni-form
[17:38] <brousch> django-floppyforms
[17:39] <brousch> i think floppy is the current hotness
[17:39] <brousch> djangofloppyform
[17:39] <brousch> s
[17:44] <rick_h_> !@#@! I can't even just import the damn thing in bpython because I need a settings crap setup first?
[17:44] <rick_h_> you've got to be kidding me
[17:45] <greg-g> uh oh
[17:45]  * greg-g steps away from rick_h_ and covers himself with a heat shield
[17:46] <rick_h_> I mean seriously..who ever heard of not being able to import a module until you've done config/setup first?
[17:46] <rick_h_> this is the great python hope... "I'm sorry...you've not declared your intentions. I can't let you import that module at all"
[17:46] <snap-l> rick_h_: Apparently Django developers have.
[17:47] <rick_h_> this is what you get when you let newspaper people run things :P
[17:49] <rick_h_> and this silently fail template BS is for the birds
[17:50] <rick_h_> ok, ready to do battle. Downloaded Django and have it open in an editor so I can view the api while I work
[17:50] <rick_h_> this is truly what linux workspaces were meant for...fixing stupid docs
[17:50] <rick_h_> have I mentioned lately that if you can't read source code go read some now? :)
[17:51] <greg-g> heh
[17:53] <jrwren> rick_h_: django settings?
[17:53] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, if you just do a fresh venv, and instlal django, and launch python
[17:53] <rick_h_> you can't import certain modules because you lack django settings
[17:54] <jrwren> yup
[17:54] <jrwren> from django.config import settings
[17:54] <rick_h_> I just want to explore the freaking code in the shell, I'm not trying to run
[17:54] <jrwren> all you need AFAIK
[17:54] <rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/676/
[17:55] <brousch> maybe you need to make a project
[17:55] <brousch> and empty project
[17:55] <rick_h_> I just want to browse the code, not setup a project.
[17:56] <rick_h_> it wants me to setup an ENV like I'm running stuff, but I'm not
[17:56] <brousch> ah, i see
[17:56] <rick_h_> you know me...always "doing it wrong"
[17:56] <rick_h_> :P
[17:57] <snap-l> Maybe it's you. :)
[17:57] <rick_h_> I'm sure it is
[17:57] <snap-l> remind me not to taunt rick_h_. He knows where I live
[17:57] <snap-l> and where i work
[17:57] <brousch> quit exploring. just do what the docs tell you to do!
[17:57] <rick_h_> though I do feel a little better that the requests library author favorited that tweet
[17:57] <rick_h_> brousch: I would but the docs don't tell me :P
[17:58] <snap-l> He'll go all Jeff Foxworthy on me. "Here's your spine"
[17:58] <rick_h_> snap-l: yea, I might still have backdoor access to rm -rf your git repos :P
[17:58] <snap-l> (and don't correct me if I'm wrong on the comic. I really don't care)
[17:58] <brousch> isn't jeff foxworth "you might be a redneck"?
[17:58] <snap-l> brousch: see above
[17:59] <brousch> FIX IT
[17:59] <snap-l> NO
[17:59] <jrwren> rick_h_: oh yeah, you need a settings.py
[17:59] <jrwren> django can't run without it.
[17:59] <brousch> rick_h_: what module wouldn't install without config?
[17:59] <jrwren> and I know you aren't "running" it, but it can't do much of anthing without settings. an empty settings module might be fine
[18:01] <rick_h_> brousch: any python module in the world you can import and dir(something)
[18:01] <brousch> right, but which one wouldn't?
[18:01] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I've just opened the django up in vim and doing pure source.
[18:01] <jrwren> rick_h_: that is great too.
[18:02] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, except for my linting going nuts lol
[18:02] <jrwren> rick_h_: i was able to trick it by touching __init__.py and settings.py and starting ipython with DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE=settings
[18:02] <rick_h_> jrwren: right, I just think that's retarded as hell as a python dev
[18:02] <rick_h_> therefor I shall rant to the world!
[18:02] <jrwren> i'm not enough of a python dev to know
[18:04] <rick_h_> so I've been working on learning/hacking in python for coming up on 5yrs and I think this is the first time I recall ever hitting something like this
[18:22] <jrwren> *nod*
[18:23] <brousch> rick_h_: well now you're finally using enterprise-class python modules instead of those toy projects
[18:23]  * brousch peers to the east in anticipation of the nuclear mushroom cloud
[18:24] <rick_h_> jrwren: you ever run into guys that just hate the idea of mocking out methods/etc for tests?
[18:27] <jrwren> rick_h_: what are tests? :)
[18:27] <jrwren> rick_h_: i am a guy who hatest mocking out methods for tests.
[18:27] <jrwren> i really cant stand mocks.
[18:27] <jrwren> but i guess they are a necessarily evil.
[18:28] <rick_h_> jrwren: so do you end up creating subclasses and things of the existing code and having hidden _fake params to classes so you can fake out parts of the code?
[18:34] <jrwren> rick_h_: in python? no way.
[18:34] <jrwren> rick_h_: inverse the dependencies and inject teh fakes
[18:35] <rick_h_> I'm trying to understand this other guy in my squad. He's all about subclassing things, overwriting the method I would mock with Mock, and then using it for things
[18:35] <jrwren> so obviously I'm a fan of fakes when it comes to mocking :)
[18:35] <jrwren> rick_h_: that is a valid way to do it when you can refactor to inject.
[18:35] <rick_h_> but he ends up with classes that take _something where _something is only provided in tests to inject a fake object
[18:35] <jrwren> it is straight out of "Working Effectively With Legacy Code"
[18:35] <rick_h_> and I'm just wonder why not use the tools available and patch the object with somehting fake
[18:36] <jrwren> but if you are testing first, you would never come up with that.
[18:36] <jrwren> rick_h_: maybe he did too much java in the past :)
[18:36] <rick_h_> yea, but that's also limited to java in a lot of ways where you can't do as much direct monkey patching fakes in place
[18:36] <jrwren> rick_h_: exactly
[18:36] <jrwren> rick_h_: but you can always inverse dependencies.
[18:36] <Blazeix> there is something to be said for the overall pattern of dependency injection, though
[18:36] <jrwren> rick_h_: its why Java has the Factory Factory Factory problem.
[18:37] <jrwren> because you can't have virtual constructors.
[18:37] <Blazeix> having all your dependencies listed up front can be useful
[18:37] <rick_h_> yea, I need to sit down and get educated because I just look at it and it seems like so much pointless litter among the code
[18:37] <jrwren> Blazeix: yeah, its applicable in python for sure.
[18:37] <rick_h_> but when I changed it once I got asked to change it back
[18:37] <jrwren> hell, its straight up strategy pattern and its just that one of your strategies is for test.
[18:37] <rick_h_> so the guy's been doing python a long while and worked on big things like bzr/etc
[18:37] <Blazeix> rick_h_: is this the code you showed me? that wasn't dependency injection though,
[18:37] <rick_h_> so I know he's a smart guy, but obviously opinionated in this stuff
[18:38] <Blazeix> he was just subclassing/overriding, i thought
[18:38] <rick_h_> Blazeix: that's an exmaple, today he flat has a def __init__(self, _curl=None):
[18:38] <Blazeix> ah ok
[18:38] <rick_h_> where _curl is just there to insert a fake curl object he creates
[18:38] <Blazeix> right, that's a pretty popular pattern in the .NET/java world
[18:39] <rick_h_> right, but I don't get that in the python world so much
[18:39] <rick_h_> because he's doing: +        if _curl is None:
[18:39] <rick_h_> 62	+            _curl = pycurl.Curl()
[18:39] <rick_h_> but could just do with patched(pycurl, "Curl") as mock: ...
[18:39] <Blazeix> sure, the monkey patching thing is pretty awesome too. i do think inverted dependencies are more readable, though
[18:41] <snap-l> I'm sorry, but did anyone else see "bzr code" and immediately think "his whole argument is suspect"?
[18:42] <snap-l> (the rick_h_ developer partner, not rick_h_ )
[18:42] <rick_h_> heh, well I'm not fan of bzr, but the guys behind it can write some python
[18:44] <Blazeix> oh, i didn't catch the code sample rick_h_ pasted
[18:44] <Blazeix> so he's not actually gaining any loose coupling benefits
[18:44] <rick_h_> Blazeix: not that I can tell
[18:44] <rick_h_> but I've seen the pattern before in other code
[18:44] <Blazeix> ok, that is a little bit weird
[18:46] <jrwren> snap-l: yes, but I didn't say anything :)
[18:46] <rick_h_> at some point I'll have to get him a few drinks and have him explain his thoughts behind the stuff
[18:46] <rick_h_> he's a bit defensive/etc ootb so didn't push too hard :)
[18:46] <jrwren> rick_h_: oh, that is the inversion thing to which I was refering. So i'd probably do it his way too.
[18:47] <jrwren> but its only because its what I am familiar with.
[18:47] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, I'm not trying to trash it, but I'm not seeing the immediate advantages so curious what I'm missing
[18:47] <rick_h_> I mean some things are just matters of taste, but even that can often have some particular bug/issue that created that taste
[18:48] <rick_h_> I think all of LP teams have done too much Java...I mean Python via Zope :P
[18:48] <Blazeix> yeah, his specific pattern doesn't seem super useful, but next CHC i can show you where it gets useful if you take it one step further
[18:49] <rick_h_> Blazeix: cool, we'll melt shakes8081's brain with an all out testing patterns discussion :)
[18:49] <Blazeix> hah
[18:51] <shakes8081> rick_h_: BRING IT ON!!!!!
[18:51] <shakes8081> lol
[18:53] <brousch> DAMNIT. WHY AM I SO FAR AWAY FROM THE AWESOME?
[18:54] <shakes8081> rick_h_: Does the "testing pattern discussion" incorperate what I am learning? Or is it for a much later headache?
[18:54] <rick_h_> shakes8081: later
[18:54] <rick_h_> I remember going to MichiPug meetings and they'd be talking over my head on stuff
[18:55] <rick_h_> but learn a lot and slowly catch up, it could be one of those if we let it
[18:55] <shakes8081> Well Obe Won'Ricknobe, whatever you think is best ;)
[18:57] <rick_h_> hmmm, I can't decide if I like this or not... https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/forms/modelforms/#the-save-method
[18:57] <rick_h_> it seems strange for the form object to save the model
[18:57] <snap-l> If it's any consolation, I'm still design-pattern deficient
[18:57] <brousch> of course you don't like it. it's django
[18:58] <rick_h_> brousch: naw, if it was that I'd be like "WTF?! What moron decided that this was a good thing?"
[18:58] <rick_h_> I'm much milder...so it means I'm thinking about it still :)
[18:58] <brousch> can you use any of the newer form modules?
[18:58] <rick_h_> not currently
[18:58] <rick_h_> I'm assuming they'd do that part the same
[18:59] <brousch> i've been watching all of the old djangocon talks to pick up on stuff
[18:59] <shakes8081> snap-l: we can learn together lol
[19:18] <jrwren> imo memorizing patterns is not useful.
[19:25] <brousch> jrwren: so you support the pattern memorization anti-pattern?
[19:25] <snap-l> jrwren: I don't want to remember the patterns, just remember the stupid terminology
[19:25] <snap-l> so when someone says they're using the frobozz pattern, I know what they're talking about
[19:31] <jrwren> ah, lik ehow i just dropped dtrategy above?
[19:31] <jrwren> zomg, this KB has go to go
[19:32] <snap-l> precisely
[19:36] <jrwren> if it lives up to the description, its exactly for what i've been looking. http://www.tdd-django-tutorial.com/?utm_source=Python+Weekly+Newsletter&utm_campaign=000b7d6a9b-Python_Weekly_Issue_36_May_24_2012&utm_medium=email
[19:36] <rick_h_> jrwren: so I peeked at that and the first stuff off the bat are selenium tests so I'm not sure it's the thing to go from
[19:36] <rick_h_> but I've not gone through it all, so disclaimer away
[19:38] <jrwren> ugh
[19:38] <brousch> jrwren: that's the one i started going through
[19:39] <brousch> my testing skills are non-existant, so i'm hoping it will help
[19:41] <brousch> the biggest problem with venturing into djangoland is that so many things are not rick_h_-approved yet
[20:06] <nullspace> I just wanted to share this you all: http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/best_birthday_prank_ever.gif
[20:09] <brousch> what's the vaseline for?
[20:09] <greg-g> worst_title_ever.gif
[20:09] <greg-g> fake_joke_about_butt_sex.gif
[20:30] <snap-l> If there was any doubt about Linode being awesome, let me assure you there is no doubt.
[20:31] <snap-l> save for using cold fusion for their support e-mail
[20:31] <greg-g> oh right, I never heard a response from Ting
[20:32] <snap-l> greg-g: Really? That's odd.
[20:32] <greg-g> not that I was notified about... /me searches
[20:34] <snap-l> https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/ <- Handy referral link, in case anyone is interested.
[20:36] <greg-g> snap-l: intersting, I don't get the same message anymore, but I'm on Ubuntu now (before it was Debian)
[20:36] <greg-g> before I re-ping them, I'm going to confirm at home
[20:38] <snap-l> https://help.ting.com/entries/21421238-sprint-unlocking-phones-did-it-ever-happen
[20:39] <snap-l> They're definitely saying all the right things
[20:45] <jrwren> anyone have local colo recommendations?
[20:46] <rick_h_> jrwren: waveform is cheap, but ok
[20:47] <rick_h_> I had one/two downtimes a year that were a bit nuts, think longest was 36 hours in several years
[20:47] <rick_h_> and their support setup leaves a lot to be desired, see my current disagrement with them on closing my account
[20:48] <brousch> my gosh, testing is tedious
[20:48] <rick_h_> brousch: :) it gets easier if that helps
[20:48] <rick_h_> but yes, testing == coding
[20:48] <rick_h_> it takes time and refactoring to get right
[20:48] <brousch> seems like it will get more tedious
[20:49] <rick_h_> naw, easier
[20:49] <brousch> i think i need to change how i look at it or i will never do it
[20:50] <brousch> change it from "something all of the good coders tell me i need to do" to a sort of challenge that's fun
[20:50] <nullspace> if you don't test how do you know it will work
[20:50] <brousch> nullspace: i totally understand the rationale
[20:51] <brousch> believe me. i have a GB of Visual Basic in Access with no tests where i cross my fingers on every tweak
[20:51] <nullspace> reason #1 why I like web coding, I can test several times and it's doubful I'll break my own machine
[20:52] <brousch> what kind of coding would break your machine?
[20:52] <rick_h_> apt-get install java :P
[20:52] <nullspace> brousch: please never talk to me about that again, I'm going to to get the code sweats tonight because of that sentance
[20:52] <nullspace> rick_h_: very funny
[20:52] <rick_h_> I thought so :)
[20:53] <brousch> nullspace: sweats from the GB of Access?
[20:53] <nullspace> gah your talking about it
[20:53] <brousch> i've been curating this monstrosity for a decade
[20:54] <nullspace> kill it with fire already
[20:54] <brousch> i'm working on it ;)
[20:56] <brousch> i kind of like the selenium tests
[20:57] <brousch> littke brwoser pops up and does stuff
[21:37] <shakes8081> Have a good weekened all