[06:49] <dholbach> good morning
[17:17] <wendar> mterry: sorry, wasn't on earlier. In general, if it can go in /opt, it should.
[17:18] <mterry> wendar, yar, I figured a way for it to go in opt.  Thanks!
[17:19] <wendar> mterry: cool. If you get a second, add a brief note on how you got it to work for /opt to the wiki documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Submissions/InstallPathTips
[17:22] <mterry> wendar, the "Tips for python apps" link there is dead
[17:22] <wendar> mterry: I noticed that, checking if the link is just wrong
[17:42] <wendar> mterry: it looks like I never added the file, just added it now
[17:43] <mterry> wendar, I've got a big branch getting ready for SRU to fix extras support in quickly.  I was dismayed to see how broken it was!  I've added a bunch of tests to help make sure we don't do that again
[17:58] <mterry> wendar, we're generating metadata like "XB-Screenshot-Url: https://software-center.ubuntu.com/screenshots/t/testapp-quantal.png
[17:58] <mterry> XB-Thumbnail-Url: https://software-center.ubuntu.com/screenshots/t/testapp-quantal.thumb.png"  Is that still correct?
[17:58] <wendar> mterry: that can all disappear now
[17:59] <mterry> wendar, oh really?  XB-AppName, XB-Icon, all that?
[17:59] <wendar> mterry: they've made some changes in MyApps, so Software Center can now pull that data from the MyApps submission
[17:59] <wendar> mterry: no need to add it to the package files
[18:00] <mterry> wendar, OK.  You also recommend things like Standards 3.9.2, debian/source/format, and dropping cdbs.   How much do you really care about that?  (like is format 1.0 a blocker, is cdbs depends but not being used a blocker)
[18:00] <wendar> mterry: the debian/rules file has been simplified too, so it no longer needs ('icons', glob.glob('icons/*.png')),
[18:01] <wendar> mterry: er, that's no longer needs override_dh_gencontrol
[18:01] <mterry> wendar, you mean the "dpkg-distaddfile testapp.svg raw-meta-data -" bit?
[18:02] <wendar> mterry: we'll rip out cdbs if it comes through, and will update the standards version to the recommended version for the distro release
[18:02] <wendar> mterry: (IIRC, that is 3.9.2 for Oneiric)
[18:02] <wendar> mterry: yes, the raw-meta-data bit
[18:02] <wendar> mterry: not needed anymore
[18:02] <mterry> wendar, ok, can drop that too
[18:03] <wendar> mterry: if you're using the simple dh template recommended on the ARB wiki pages, it doesn't use cdbs anyway
[18:03] <wendar> mterry: so the dependency is unnecessary
[18:05] <mterry> wendar, agreed, it's just that those nits I described come from a separate package.  So if we really wanted to get rid of them, I'd have to add code to quickly to change them
[18:06] <wendar> mterry: which nits? We're fine on manual package generation now, either with dh_make, or dumping simple template files.
[18:06] <wendar> mterry: doesn't seem like we need to edit any other packages to get it working.
[18:07] <wendar> mterry: just change how quickly spits out the package templates
[18:07] <mterry> wendar, quickly uses python-mkdebian from python-distutils-extra to generate its debian/* files
[18:08] <wendar> mterry: long-term, we can get around that by using pkgme instead
[18:08] <mterry> wendar, agreed.  But my concern right now is 12.04
[18:08] <wendar> mterry: but, for the moment, can you just skip python-mkdebian for ARB packages
[18:08] <wendar> mterry: use static templates
[18:09] <wendar> mterry: the ARB python packages are my definition *very* simple
[18:09] <wendar> "by definition"
[18:09] <wendar> they don't need to detect a lot of complex options
[18:10] <mterry> wendar, um...  they are if the developer has changed their actual code to support only ARB style.  To support normal style as well as ARB, let me show you the current debian/rules I'm using in my extras branch
[18:10] <mterry> wendar, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1006807/
[18:10] <mterry> Not that simple
[18:13] <wendar> mterry: taking a look
[18:14] <wendar> mterry: ugh, yeah, override_dh_install is pretty terrible
[18:14] <wendar> mterry: why is it so complex? --prefix should take care of it all
[18:14] <wendar> mterry: that's python's way of changing the path on everything
[18:15] <wendar> mterry: maybe the Quickly setup.py script needs to be modified to respect --prefix?
[18:15] <mterry> wendar, we have to edit the desktop file, we have to compile the schemas manually because the normal trigger doesn't fire, we have to point to a special XDG_DATA_DIRS so GNOME picks up the write schemas and help files, etc
[18:16] <mterry> We want to fix the gettext usage to point to our translations...
[18:16] <wendar> mterry: that could all go in setup.py
[18:17] <mterry> Sure, if you have an ARB-only app.  But that's not how quickly is constructed currently.  Certainly not for 12.04.
[18:17] <mterry> wendar, the decision of whether to build for ARB is made at debian package time
[18:17] <wendar> mterry: right, by passing the --prefix option to setup.py
[18:18] <mterry> wendar, again, none of the things I mentioned above are fixed by --prefix
[18:18] <wendar> mterry: but they *could* be, if setup.py handled the --prefix option appropriately
[18:18] <mterry> (unless I'm horribly wrong about that -- I don't believe that changes where gettext points and such)
[18:19] <wendar> mterry: the changes aren't specific to ARB, they'd have to be made for any installation on a different path
[18:19] <wendar> mterry: if, for example, a user wanted to install the package in /home/me/my/custom/path...
[18:20] <mterry> wendar, ah, I certainly agree.  But I think you are discussing this with a view to the future.  I'm discussing this with a view to fixing 12.04 to make quickly rock for ARB
[18:20] <wendar> mterry: I added some more details to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Submissions/PythonTips, with links to the python documentation
[18:21] <wendar> mterry: well, we don't want to review all that stuff in override_dh_install
[18:21] <wendar> mterry: if it was anything other than a Quickly package, we'd probably reject it if they needed that many install hacks in debian/rules
[18:21] <mterry> wendar, guh, hmm
[18:21] <wendar> mterry: but, if we need a "pass" for Quickly in 12.04, that's okay
[18:22] <wendar> mterry: we'll aim to make it rock even more in 12.10 :)
[18:22] <wendar> mterry: my advice, aim for a setup.py that's no more complex than the example on the PythonTips wiki page
[18:23] <wendar> mterry: arbitrary code in setup.py is a big "Red Flag" for python modules
[18:23] <wendar> mterry: (that's for 12.10)
[18:26] <wendar> mterry: oh... you know, we made some changes to some older Quickly submissions and didn't need all that... let me look for the diffs...
[18:26] <mterry> wendar, I think that simple of a setup.py is unrealistic.  You'll probably need to at least also edit fields in the desktop file and compile the schema.  But I agree that the simpler the better
[18:29] <mterry> wendar, but for 12.04.  So far the code I have generates that awful debian/rules file and also does not hit the following recommendations you have on your QuicklyTips page:  cdbs depend, standards version, debian/source/format, and older format for debian/copyright.  Without those fixes, is this all even saving you any effort?
[18:30] <wendar> mterry: it looks like --prefix does work
[18:30] <wendar> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~allison/+junk/opensinhalease-precise/revision/2
[18:31] <mterry> wendar, sorry, what do you mean by work?  I'm not arguing that --prefix isn't helpful, just that it doesn't do all the things you need it to, so you'll need special setup.py logic regardless
[18:32] <wendar> mterry: as in, setting --prefix gets Quickly to install everything under /opt
[18:32] <mterry> wendar, sure, agreed.  But things won't actually work when you run them
[18:32] <wendar> mterry: and then it only needs specific code to convince it to move the .desktop file out of /opt
[18:33] <wendar> mterry: yes, there were a couple places in the code where it needed to check if the filepath was /opt
[18:33] <wendar> mterry: but, it could do that and work for both /opt installation and normal installation
[18:34] <mterry> wendar, in addition to code changes to support arbitrary prefixes (like gettext, xdg_data_dirs, media file lookups), you will need to edit the desktop file and compile the schemas.  Those are not code changes, so will have to live in setup.py
[18:34] <wendar> setup.py is already editing the .desktop file, setting it by --prefix
[18:36] <mterry> wendar, in a quickly package?  Yes (though it doesn't adjust Exec in 12.04, which is a problem)  But not in your ideal PythonTips page, which is what I was warning about.  Just that such a simple setup.py is unrealistic.  You'll need desktop editing code and schema compilation code
[18:36] <wendar> mterry: ah, I get you now
[18:37] <wendar> mterry: yes, there is some additional work required in setup.py
[18:37] <wendar> (for quickly)
[18:37] <wendar> mterry: I don't want to make this stressfull :) Make whatever hacks you need to make in debian/rules for 12.04, and aim to push them into setup.py for 12.10
[18:37] <mterry> wendar, well, for any app not only targetted at ARB.  Obviously if they only target ARB, they can take all sorts of shortcuts
[18:38] <wendar> mterry: and, yes, *any* changes you can make to Quickly so the generated packages require less manual editing is a big help
[18:38] <wendar> mterry: if we can get it to "no manual edits required" that would be awesome, but even just getting closer would help
[18:39] <wendar> mterry: the example you sent, with the lengthy override_dh_install, should be fine
[18:39] <wendar> mterry: it looks like it'll get the packages to the point where they aren't breaking any ARB policy
[18:40] <mterry> wendar, except for packaging nits, yeah
[18:40] <mterry> wendar, OK, will settle where I am for 12.04 then, get it reviewed and landed on trunk, then SRU'd
[18:40] <wendar> mterry: yup, that's good
[18:41] <mterry> wendar, thanks for your time!  Hopefully quickly will actually be useful for ya'll again
[18:41] <wendar> mterry: thanks much for working on quickly!