[02:13] <rick_h_> phew, 1:26 18.2mi ride...how am I going ot do 36mi on Sat?
[03:03] <_stink_> in 2:52?
[03:07] <rick_h_> hah
[11:27] <snap-l> Man, DNS takes forever to update.
[11:44] <rick_h_> hmm, it's usually been pretty quick for me these days
[11:48] <brousch> your poor wife
[12:01] <snap-l> Yeah, I know most folks really like those long, slow DNS updates
[12:01] <snap-l> This is reverse DNS, so I'm not sure how long it takes
[12:01] <snap-l> I fear it'll be 24 hours
[12:02] <snap-l> which is no big deal, but it sould be nice to test my SPF record sooner than later
[12:36] <snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/no-cost-desktop-software-development-is-dead-on-windows-8/
[12:38] <rick_h_> yea, we'll see. They back out on stuff like that all the time
[12:40] <brousch> ah geez
[12:40] <snap-l> Saw it on the python dev list, where their concern was CPython-related.
[12:40] <brousch> one more reason to move everything to webapps
[12:40] <snap-l> brousch: s/webapps/linux/
[12:41] <snap-l> we don't care what you target gcc to
[12:41] <brousch> webapps all run on linux, so yeah
[12:41] <rick_h_> http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/u49iw/pep_405_is_accepted_virtual_environments_will_be/
[12:41] <brousch> i can't wait to see autocad metro. that should be fun
[12:41] <snap-l> HUZZAH!
[12:42] <brousch> oh nice
[12:42] <snap-l> brousch: They'll probably hang on to VS10 for as long as humanly possible
[12:42] <snap-l> and 5 months after it's no longer possible.
[12:42] <brousch> actually the article says you can build non-metro if you pay for the IDE. i'm sure autodesk pays
[12:42] <snap-l> Autodesk moves like a glacier. A giant, boat-ripping glacier.
[12:43] <rick_h_> brousch: right, the concern is for OSS/school kids that won't pay the fee
[12:43] <brousch> i always thought so, but now they autocad on osx and a couple of very nice webapps
[12:43] <brousch> rick_h_: there's always eclipse!
[12:43] <snap-l> autocad is a verb?
[12:43] <snap-l> brousch: Are you high?
[12:43] <brousch> as a kite!
[12:43] <snap-l> Doesn't eclise need VS to build?
[12:43] <brousch> java
[12:44] <snap-l> Right, but C compilers and such?
[12:44] <brousch> who uses C?
[12:44]  * snap-l knows jack about Eclipse on Windows for anything other than Java.
[12:44] <snap-l> CPython, for starters.
[12:44] <snap-l> It's even in the name. :)
[12:45] <brousch> i think cpython just moved from VS2008 to 2010 with python3.3
[12:45] <snap-l> Yeha, that's their concern.
[12:46] <brousch> so they're on 2010 now, and will be good for 5? years
[12:46] <snap-l> Not under Windows 8 they won't be
[12:47] <brousch> this is much more troubling "In practice, you'll probably have to pay even for Metro development. Windows 8 won't, in general, support side-loading of Metro-style applications. Developers won't be able to stick a Metro-style application that they wrote themselves onto their website and let people download it. "
[12:47] <brousch> that kills pretty much any reason i would have to use windows over osx
[12:48] <rick_h_> yea, they're getting to their own app store soon
[12:48] <brousch> app store is fine, but requiring all installs to go through it is the shit
[12:48]  * rick_h_ is so happy he hasn't had to load windows in multiple years now
[12:48] <rick_h_> heh, that's the point of the app store :)
[12:49] <brousch> i feel my blood pressure rising
[12:49] <snap-l> Welcome to the mainframe. Please leave your dignity at the login prompt.
[12:50] <brousch> i can see we'll be sitting on win7 for a decade
[12:50] <rick_h_> woot!
[12:50] <brousch> better buy up gobs of licenses
[12:50] <snap-l> And hope MS doesn't suddenly deactivate them all
[12:51] <brousch> damn, you're right
[12:51]  * brousch digs around for his win98se CD
[12:53] <snap-l> The PC industry has worked hard to remove the cost-benefits that allowed it to be so successful in the early days.
[12:53] <snap-l> That and the feeling of control over your own computing environment.
[12:57] <brousch> that's one of the things that bugs me about unity. i feel like i lost some control over my desktop
[12:57] <brousch> i'm sure that will get better as it matures
[12:57] <rick_h_> then don't use unity if you need more control :P
[12:58] <brousch> i'm not
[12:58] <rick_h_> you have all the control in the wold you know
[12:59] <snap-l> I have all the control I need
[13:00] <brousch> i'm still really happy with kubuntu
[13:00] <snap-l> Yeah, and that's awesome.
[13:01] <brousch> i can see kubuntu 12.04 as my OS for 3 years, if need-be
[13:29] <snap-l> I love how an idea hits you long after it's useful
[13:29] <rick_h_> hah
[13:29] <snap-l> been struggling with VMs and DHCP getting random IP addresses
[13:30] <snap-l> and my solution is to essentially ping every machine on the network and look for mac address patterns via arp -n
[13:30] <snap-l> The better answer would have been to create machines with two network adapters
[13:30] <snap-l> one for local NAT, and one for remote access
[13:31] <snap-l> so I could still have local access, and be able to associate an IP address with the machine that can be listed with some minor scripting
[13:35] <snap-l> Of course, port forwarding is a bitch for ssh under this scenario
[13:45] <jrwren> its a lie anyway. you can always use the command line tools to do "no cost desktop software development on windows"
[13:45] <jrwren> brousch: what makes you think there will be autocad metro?
[13:46] <brousch> jrwren: there won't be. i corrected myself
[13:47] <jrwren> isee
[13:49] <snap-l> http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1695.html
[13:51] <jrwren> not funny
[14:09]  * ColonelPanic001 forgot his towel :(
[14:10] <brousch> i'll put that on your tombstone
[14:11] <jrwren> but do you know where it is?
[14:41] <brousch> rick_h_: what would you use instead of selenium in that django tdd tutorial?
[14:41] <rick_h_> just the client should work for basic things
[14:42] <rick_h_> selenium is a very hight level integration test, I'd not startt there for testing, but final overall functionality tests
[14:42] <brousch> what client?
[14:42] <rick_h_> a failing selenium test is near useless, run infreqeuntly, and really just a smoke test in usual cases
[14:42] <rick_h_> the django test Client
[14:42] <rick_h_> that lets you call the views/get response/etc
[14:42] <rick_h_> in pyramid I use webtest
[14:43] <brousch> thanks
[15:30] <brousch> ok, so i think the fun part of testing will be the challenge of figuring out how to test something
[15:30] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, that's usually the case, just think small and work up
[15:32] <brousch> copying and pasting tests from the tutorial is tedious, but i think building my own tests will be more interesting
[15:36] <jrwren> writing the test is also the design
[15:37] <brousch> what design?
[15:38] <jrwren> exactly
[15:38] <jrwren> solves that problem too
[15:38] <jrwren> solves the overdesign problem. solves the lack of design problem.
[15:39] <brousch> overdesign is definitely not my problem
[15:41] <brousch> oooooooh http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57441380-93/hps-webos-enyo-team-reportedly-heading-to-google/
[16:14] <greg-g> so, is it really true there is no usable FLOSS voip conference call app (eg: skype replacement)?
[16:17] <rick_h_> I hear there's this big blue button thing lol
[16:31] <greg-g> :( so, that doesn't work well, eh? I never really tried the MUG instance of it
[16:32] <rick_h_> sorry, just been browbeat that it's awesome and the future and worth sucking all the bandwidth out of our group meetings
[16:36] <snap-l> rick_h_: hear hear
[16:37] <snap-l> greg-g: I'd give it a shot. Don't let our wearied expressions dissuade you.
[16:38] <snap-l> It's just that we haven't gone two months without hearing something about it
[16:59] <jrwren> I think if you put up asterisk you can do it.
[17:00] <brousch> big blue button was on FLOSS weekly. it has to be good
[17:28] <greg-g> rick_h_: bandwidth issue wouldn't be a problem in my use case (set it up as a server the world could use, not library-based group meeting :)
[17:28] <greg-g> jrwren: yeah, we (CC) used to have an Asterisk server for our weekly calls, the quality wasn't hte bst for some reason
[19:25] <rick_h_> greg-g: yea, the thing is open codecs just don't seem to work as well for that stuff.
[19:36] <greg-g> speex or whatever it is is pretty good, from the stuff I've read
[19:37] <greg-g> honestly, the xiph community does some good stuff
[19:37] <greg-g> I want to just blame it on apathy, but I still don't know if I can
[19:37] <snap-l> I think it's also partly because of the QoS that stuff like Skye does behind the scenes
[19:38] <rick_h_> greg-g: oh yea don't get me wrong. It's hard to get fired up when there are free working alternatives
[19:38] <rick_h_> especially because this kind of thing is effected by network effects
[19:39] <greg-g> right
[19:40] <greg-g> that was the phrase I couldn't come up with before, heh
[19:43] <snap-l> God, I should just throw out all of the 32 bit machines in the house
[19:43] <snap-l> was going to set up a server, but the software I downloaded was 64 bit only
[19:44] <snap-l> That's a few minutes I'm not going to get back
[19:47] <PainBank> what do you all think of JSLint?  I just checked it out for the first time and was wondering if you use it and what your thoughts on it are?
[19:47] <rick_h_> live by it
[19:47] <rick_h_> it's ,m in my vim setup
[19:47] <rick_h_> I use node/npm version of running it
[19:47] <rick_h_> sudo npm install -g jslint (after you get nodejs and npm first)
[19:48] <Blazeix> yeah, definitely use jslint
[19:48] <Blazeix> it will catch all sorts of things, the biggest for me is unintended global variable use
[19:48] <snap-l> put another way: there's no good reason why you shouldn't use it
[19:48] <rick_h_> it saves a lot of debugging headaches
[19:48] <rick_h_> it's picky/strict, but that's the best kind of tool :)
[19:48] <PainBank> right on
[19:49] <PainBank> ya, I noticed the 'using strict' issue came up right away, which is annoying, but requires everything to be right.
[19:49] <PainBank> so you correct event the small things like adding var to the start of a variable declaration and clean up the spacing warnings?
[19:49] <brousch> or youcould use coffeescript which supposedly always creates jslint passing code
[19:50] <rick_h_> especially adding the var
[19:50] <PainBank> ya, no on coffeeeeeee
[19:50] <PainBank> ok
[19:50] <rick_h_> and yea, I'm a spacing nut...
[19:50] <rick_h_> so consistant spacing ftw
[19:51] <brousch> rick_h_: give a pep8 nazi talk at pyohio
[19:51] <brousch> you could yell and froth at people
[19:53] <PainBank> anyone created an NPAPI before?
[19:56] <Blazeix> i haven't, what are you building?
[19:56] <snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/05/kingdoms-of-amalur-developer-lays-off-entire-staff/ <- This is fucked up
[19:56] <PainBank> embedded system using browser for the GUI... need to trigger the hardware functionlaity
[19:56] <snap-l> (not the layoff bit, the how it was funded bit)
[19:56] <PainBank> wow
[19:57] <PainBank> 379 staff...
[19:57] <PainBank> whoa
[20:00] <PainBank> umm... both.
[20:00] <snap-l> Yeah ,the first part is sad
[20:00] <snap-l> the second part si "wtf were they thinknig"
[20:00] <PainBank> pretty fucked up, that they knew they were in trouble, yet kept the whole 380 staff on... ya wonder how many knew there were issues before the big layoff....
[20:01] <PainBank> as in sitting around, twiddling thumbs... waiting for said axe to fall.
[20:01] <snap-l> I think they were waiting for a bailout from the govt.
[20:01] <PainBank> the funding part is just nuts... hell.... it isn't a 3rd in a series of a halo or MW series or anything.
[20:01] <PainBank> they already had it... and the execs had quite the fun time for a while...
[20:28] <snap-l> Java: The Speed-bump of the internet
[20:28] <snap-l> I swear, the requirements for Alfresco should be just one word: more
[20:28] <snap-l> more CPU, more RAM, more everything, pease
[20:32] <brousch> i thought of looking at elfresco, but never did
[20:32] <brousch> seemed huge
[20:34] <snap-l> https://identi.ca/notice/94003046 https://identi.ca/notice/94003056
[20:38] <Blazeix> snap-l: haha
[21:09] <snap-l> Would someone that doesn't normally receive mail from me be willing to help me with an experiment?
[21:09] <snap-l> ie: I shouldn't be in your contact list, or on Google plus
[21:10] <snap-l> and you should have a gmail account
[21:11] <Blazeix> does it have to be gmail? you could use 10minutemail
[21:11] <snap-l> I've had my mail show up as spam in gmail
[21:11] <snap-l> and I wanted to see if I'd finally nailed the SPF record so it doesn't do that anymore.
[21:12] <snap-l> port25 and the openspf mailer says that I pass
[21:12] <snap-l> Maybe I should just let it go. :)
[21:20] <shakes808> snap-l: what do you need me to do?
[21:20] <snap-l> just pm me your e-mail address
[21:20] <snap-l> and wait for an e-mail from me
[21:21] <snap-l> and then lmk if it showed up in spam
[21:22] <brousch> snap-l: starting a spam ans scam company?
[21:22] <snap-l> brousch: You betcha
[21:23] <shakes808> came through in my normal inbox
[21:23] <snap-l> shakes808: Thank you.
[21:23] <shakes808> np
[21:24] <shakes808> glad to be of assistance ;)
[21:24] <shakes808> ... and now the flood of spam mail and chain letters commence :-/
[21:24] <shakes808> loll