[02:13] phew, 1:26 18.2mi ride...how am I going ot do 36mi on Sat? [03:03] <_stink_> in 2:52? [03:07] hah [11:27] Man, DNS takes forever to update. [11:44] hmm, it's usually been pretty quick for me these days [11:48] your poor wife [12:01] Yeah, I know most folks really like those long, slow DNS updates [12:01] This is reverse DNS, so I'm not sure how long it takes [12:01] I fear it'll be 24 hours [12:02] which is no big deal, but it sould be nice to test my SPF record sooner than later [12:36] http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/no-cost-desktop-software-development-is-dead-on-windows-8/ [12:38] yea, we'll see. They back out on stuff like that all the time [12:40] ah geez [12:40] Saw it on the python dev list, where their concern was CPython-related. [12:40] one more reason to move everything to webapps [12:40] brousch: s/webapps/linux/ [12:41] we don't care what you target gcc to [12:41] webapps all run on linux, so yeah [12:41] http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/u49iw/pep_405_is_accepted_virtual_environments_will_be/ [12:41] i can't wait to see autocad metro. that should be fun [12:41] HUZZAH! [12:42] oh nice [12:42] brousch: They'll probably hang on to VS10 for as long as humanly possible [12:42] and 5 months after it's no longer possible. [12:42] actually the article says you can build non-metro if you pay for the IDE. i'm sure autodesk pays [12:42] Autodesk moves like a glacier. A giant, boat-ripping glacier. [12:43] brousch: right, the concern is for OSS/school kids that won't pay the fee [12:43] i always thought so, but now they autocad on osx and a couple of very nice webapps [12:43] rick_h_: there's always eclipse! [12:43] autocad is a verb? [12:43] brousch: Are you high? [12:43] as a kite! [12:43] Doesn't eclise need VS to build? [12:43] java [12:44] Right, but C compilers and such? [12:44] who uses C? [12:44] * snap-l knows jack about Eclipse on Windows for anything other than Java. [12:44] CPython, for starters. [12:44] It's even in the name. :) [12:45] i think cpython just moved from VS2008 to 2010 with python3.3 [12:45] Yeha, that's their concern. [12:46] so they're on 2010 now, and will be good for 5? years [12:46] Not under Windows 8 they won't be [12:47] this is much more troubling "In practice, you'll probably have to pay even for Metro development. Windows 8 won't, in general, support side-loading of Metro-style applications. Developers won't be able to stick a Metro-style application that they wrote themselves onto their website and let people download it. " [12:47] that kills pretty much any reason i would have to use windows over osx [12:48] yea, they're getting to their own app store soon [12:48] app store is fine, but requiring all installs to go through it is the shit [12:48] * rick_h_ is so happy he hasn't had to load windows in multiple years now [12:48] heh, that's the point of the app store :) [12:49] i feel my blood pressure rising [12:49] Welcome to the mainframe. Please leave your dignity at the login prompt. [12:50] i can see we'll be sitting on win7 for a decade [12:50] woot! [12:50] better buy up gobs of licenses [12:50] And hope MS doesn't suddenly deactivate them all [12:51] damn, you're right [12:51] * brousch digs around for his win98se CD [12:53] The PC industry has worked hard to remove the cost-benefits that allowed it to be so successful in the early days. [12:53] That and the feeling of control over your own computing environment. [12:57] that's one of the things that bugs me about unity. i feel like i lost some control over my desktop [12:57] i'm sure that will get better as it matures [12:57] then don't use unity if you need more control :P [12:58] i'm not [12:58] you have all the control in the wold you know [12:59] I have all the control I need [13:00] i'm still really happy with kubuntu [13:00] Yeah, and that's awesome. [13:01] i can see kubuntu 12.04 as my OS for 3 years, if need-be [13:29] I love how an idea hits you long after it's useful [13:29] hah [13:29] been struggling with VMs and DHCP getting random IP addresses [13:30] and my solution is to essentially ping every machine on the network and look for mac address patterns via arp -n [13:30] The better answer would have been to create machines with two network adapters [13:30] one for local NAT, and one for remote access [13:31] so I could still have local access, and be able to associate an IP address with the machine that can be listed with some minor scripting [13:35] Of course, port forwarding is a bitch for ssh under this scenario [13:45] its a lie anyway. you can always use the command line tools to do "no cost desktop software development on windows" [13:45] brousch: what makes you think there will be autocad metro? [13:46] jrwren: there won't be. i corrected myself [13:47] isee [13:49] http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1695.html [13:51] not funny [14:09] * ColonelPanic001 forgot his towel :( [14:10] i'll put that on your tombstone [14:11] but do you know where it is? [14:41] rick_h_: what would you use instead of selenium in that django tdd tutorial? [14:41] just the client should work for basic things [14:42] selenium is a very hight level integration test, I'd not startt there for testing, but final overall functionality tests [14:42] what client? [14:42] a failing selenium test is near useless, run infreqeuntly, and really just a smoke test in usual cases [14:42] the django test Client [14:42] that lets you call the views/get response/etc [14:42] in pyramid I use webtest [14:43] thanks [15:30] ok, so i think the fun part of testing will be the challenge of figuring out how to test something [15:30] brousch: yea, that's usually the case, just think small and work up [15:32] copying and pasting tests from the tutorial is tedious, but i think building my own tests will be more interesting [15:36] writing the test is also the design [15:37] what design? [15:38] exactly [15:38] solves that problem too [15:38] solves the overdesign problem. solves the lack of design problem. [15:39] overdesign is definitely not my problem [15:41] oooooooh http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57441380-93/hps-webos-enyo-team-reportedly-heading-to-google/ [16:14] so, is it really true there is no usable FLOSS voip conference call app (eg: skype replacement)? [16:17] I hear there's this big blue button thing lol [16:31] :( so, that doesn't work well, eh? I never really tried the MUG instance of it [16:32] sorry, just been browbeat that it's awesome and the future and worth sucking all the bandwidth out of our group meetings [16:36] rick_h_: hear hear [16:37] greg-g: I'd give it a shot. Don't let our wearied expressions dissuade you. [16:38] It's just that we haven't gone two months without hearing something about it [16:59] I think if you put up asterisk you can do it. [17:00] big blue button was on FLOSS weekly. it has to be good [17:28] rick_h_: bandwidth issue wouldn't be a problem in my use case (set it up as a server the world could use, not library-based group meeting :) [17:28] jrwren: yeah, we (CC) used to have an Asterisk server for our weekly calls, the quality wasn't hte bst for some reason [19:25] greg-g: yea, the thing is open codecs just don't seem to work as well for that stuff. [19:36] speex or whatever it is is pretty good, from the stuff I've read [19:37] honestly, the xiph community does some good stuff [19:37] I want to just blame it on apathy, but I still don't know if I can [19:37] I think it's also partly because of the QoS that stuff like Skye does behind the scenes [19:38] greg-g: oh yea don't get me wrong. It's hard to get fired up when there are free working alternatives [19:38] especially because this kind of thing is effected by network effects [19:39] right [19:40] that was the phrase I couldn't come up with before, heh [19:43] God, I should just throw out all of the 32 bit machines in the house [19:43] was going to set up a server, but the software I downloaded was 64 bit only [19:44] That's a few minutes I'm not going to get back [19:47] what do you all think of JSLint? I just checked it out for the first time and was wondering if you use it and what your thoughts on it are? [19:47] live by it [19:47] it's ,m in my vim setup [19:47] I use node/npm version of running it [19:47] sudo npm install -g jslint (after you get nodejs and npm first) [19:48] yeah, definitely use jslint [19:48] it will catch all sorts of things, the biggest for me is unintended global variable use [19:48] put another way: there's no good reason why you shouldn't use it [19:48] it saves a lot of debugging headaches [19:48] it's picky/strict, but that's the best kind of tool :) [19:48] right on [19:49] ya, I noticed the 'using strict' issue came up right away, which is annoying, but requires everything to be right. [19:49] so you correct event the small things like adding var to the start of a variable declaration and clean up the spacing warnings? [19:49] or youcould use coffeescript which supposedly always creates jslint passing code [19:50] especially adding the var [19:50] ya, no on coffeeeeeee [19:50] ok [19:50] and yea, I'm a spacing nut... [19:50] so consistant spacing ftw [19:51] rick_h_: give a pep8 nazi talk at pyohio [19:51] you could yell and froth at people [19:53] anyone created an NPAPI before? [19:56] i haven't, what are you building? [19:56] http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/05/kingdoms-of-amalur-developer-lays-off-entire-staff/ <- This is fucked up [19:56] embedded system using browser for the GUI... need to trigger the hardware functionlaity [19:56] (not the layoff bit, the how it was funded bit) [19:56] wow [19:57] 379 staff... [19:57] whoa [20:00] umm... both. [20:00] Yeah ,the first part is sad [20:00] the second part si "wtf were they thinknig" [20:00] pretty fucked up, that they knew they were in trouble, yet kept the whole 380 staff on... ya wonder how many knew there were issues before the big layoff.... [20:01] as in sitting around, twiddling thumbs... waiting for said axe to fall. [20:01] I think they were waiting for a bailout from the govt. [20:01] the funding part is just nuts... hell.... it isn't a 3rd in a series of a halo or MW series or anything. [20:01] they already had it... and the execs had quite the fun time for a while... [20:28] Java: The Speed-bump of the internet [20:28] I swear, the requirements for Alfresco should be just one word: more [20:28] more CPU, more RAM, more everything, pease [20:32] i thought of looking at elfresco, but never did [20:32] seemed huge [20:34] https://identi.ca/notice/94003046 https://identi.ca/notice/94003056 [20:38] snap-l: haha [21:09] Would someone that doesn't normally receive mail from me be willing to help me with an experiment? [21:09] ie: I shouldn't be in your contact list, or on Google plus [21:10] and you should have a gmail account [21:11] does it have to be gmail? you could use 10minutemail [21:11] I've had my mail show up as spam in gmail [21:11] and I wanted to see if I'd finally nailed the SPF record so it doesn't do that anymore. [21:12] port25 and the openspf mailer says that I pass [21:12] Maybe I should just let it go. :) [21:20] snap-l: what do you need me to do? [21:20] just pm me your e-mail address [21:20] and wait for an e-mail from me [21:21] and then lmk if it showed up in spam [21:22] snap-l: starting a spam ans scam company? [21:22] brousch: You betcha [21:23] came through in my normal inbox [21:23] shakes808: Thank you. [21:23] np [21:24] glad to be of assistance ;) [21:24] ... and now the flood of spam mail and chain letters commence :-/ [21:24] loll