| === Pici is now known as Guest55695 | ||
| === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan | ||
| AlanBell | hullo | 18:05 |
|---|---|---|
| * AlanBell is a few minutes late | 18:06 | |
| Fuchs | \o | 18:06 |
| AlanBell | #startmeeting IRC Team | 18:07 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Sun May 27 18:07:41 2012 UTC. The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 18:07 |
| meetingology | Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired | 18:07 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic: | ||
| jokrebel | Hi | 18:07 |
| AlanBell | hi all, who is here for the meeting o/ | 18:07 |
| dax | o/ | 18:07 |
| IdleOne | o/ | 18:07 |
| AlanBell | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda | 18:07 |
| Myrtti | hello | 18:07 |
| AlanBell | agenda is there | 18:08 |
| Fuchs | o/ | 18:08 |
| IdleOne | is there quorum? | 18:08 |
| AlanBell | probably not, might have to skip some bits or finish them off outside the meeting | 18:09 |
| Myrtti | aw :-( | 18:09 |
| AlanBell | #topic Review last meetings action items | 18:09 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic: Review last meetings action items | ||
| AlanBell | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/IRCC/20120429 is the minutes from last time | 18:10 |
| AlanBell | action items for me were to do a call for ops (done) | 18:10 |
| AlanBell | and to schedule the UDS session (done) | 18:10 |
| AlanBell | yay | 18:10 |
| * AlanBell likes done | 18:10 | |
| AlanBell | #topic Open items in the IRCC tracker | 18:10 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic: Open items in the IRCC tracker | ||
| IdleOne | 2 dones == cookie 4 you | 18:11 |
| AlanBell | there was an appeal | 18:11 |
| AlanBell | Lars Torben Kremer appealed a long term ban, but as there was no supporting information as to why we should do that the appeal was denied | 18:12 |
| ikonia | I'm surprised to be honest that he bothered to appeal | 18:13 |
| ikonia | I didn't think he'd be able to follow the process. | 18:13 |
| AlanBell | there is an open appeal too, from mcloy, I closed that yesterday when the matter was resolved, but it appears that the user has reopened it today | 18:13 |
| ikonia | no doubt | 18:14 |
| AlanBell | I don't want to discuss that now, just declaring what is in the tracker for this agenda item | 18:14 |
| AlanBell | #topic Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council | 18:14 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic: Review Bugs related to the Ubuntu IRC Council | ||
| AlanBell | there are two bugs now, we closed a bunch last meeting | 18:15 |
| AlanBell | bug 892500 | 18:15 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 892500 in ubuntu-community "eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892500 | 18:15 |
| AlanBell | so this one is the bantracking bots bug | 18:15 |
| AlanBell | what do people think of ubottu-fr? | 18:15 |
| ikonia | as a starting base, much much better | 18:16 |
| IdleOne | Don't know how to use it yet, but I do like the information it provides | 18:16 |
| IdleOne | it is a little more verbose on what is happening than eir is | 18:16 |
| ikonia | the fact that it works with BT, is enough of a reason for me alone | 18:16 |
| IdleOne | that is a + for it | 18:16 |
| AlanBell | ok, are there any actions you would like me to take on this subject, like removing eir, or getting a plan for it to be merged into ubottu (or the other way round) | 18:17 |
| ikonia | yes, I'd like eir removed | 18:17 |
| IdleOne | I would like to see -fr merged into ubottu | 18:17 |
| IdleOne | before removing eir | 18:17 |
| ikonia | at the moment we have eir/ubottu/ubottu-fr | 18:17 |
| ikonia | removing eir so it stops managing bans and phases out | 18:17 |
| IdleOne | and testing the newbottu | 18:17 |
| ikonia | allowing ubottu/ubbotu-fr to merge in | 18:17 |
| ikonia | the longer we leave eir to manage bans the longer/hardware/more effort it will be to phase it out | 18:18 |
| ikonia | hardware ??? harder | 18:18 |
| dax | I'm not familiar with this situation, but would removing eir mean that there are some bans that aren't tracked/expiring properly? | 18:18 |
| IdleOne | dax: yes. | 18:18 |
| ikonia | dax: yes, and I've said I will query the eir database to phase them out until it's clear | 18:18 |
| ikonia | dax: which is why I'd like it gone sooner rather than later so there are less entries | 18:18 |
| IdleOne | best thing would be to comment all eir bans for #ubuntu and stop using it, letting it finish its work | 18:18 |
| ikonia | IdleOne: you can't stop it while it's in the channel | 18:18 |
| dax | ikonia: Indeed. If it's going to happen at some point, earlier is probably better. | 18:18 |
| ikonia | it's never going to finish while it's in the hcannel | 18:19 |
| Fuchs | minor sidenote: as already stated in #ubuntu-ops, the #ubuntu-de op team is also discussing ban management, and we'd be interested in results from these tests. Also poke us if we can help somehow. | 18:19 |
| IdleOne | ikonia: we can stop commenting on new bans. | 18:19 |
| IdleOne | with eir that is. | 18:19 |
| AlanBell | anyone want to speak up for eir remaining in #ubuntu? | 18:19 |
| ikonia | IdleOne: that won't stop eir managing the ban | 18:19 |
| ikonia | don't all rush at once | 18:20 |
| IdleOne | then how do we phase it out while maintaining a sane ban list? | 18:20 |
| ikonia | IdleOne: you kill it out of the channel and just manually query it until it's #ubuntu list is empty | 18:20 |
| Daviey | perhaps a re-cap of eir's isues would be handy? | 18:20 |
| dax | One point here is that we didn't used to have eir, so this is roughly equivalent to the situation when eir was introduced and there were a few hundred bans without expiration set. | 18:20 |
| ikonia | IdleOne: or manually remove the enries from eir | 18:20 |
| dax | We managed just fine then. | 18:21 |
| IdleOne | true | 18:21 |
| AlanBell | removing eir would be a reversable step, nobody is objecting, it has been out of the way in the control channel for some time, there isn't a huge list of bans in it and ikonia will help manage the process of the bans in flight, so I don't see a problem with removing it | 18:21 |
| ikonia | the real value eir brought was the floodbot/excemtion removal | 18:21 |
| IdleOne | ok. kill eir soon as ubottu is merged and lets all learn to use the new bot :) | 18:21 |
| AlanBell | #action alanbell to sort out removal of eir | 18:21 |
| meetingology | ACTION: alanbell to sort out removal of eir | 18:21 |
| ikonia | so as long as ubottu-fr is able to do that, I don't see a problem with the ban list | 18:21 |
| ikonia | Daviey: do you want the bug number or an explination | 18:22 |
| AlanBell | and please start using ubottu-fr more and ask niko for more information/help | 18:22 |
| Daviey | explanation, for the nosey. | 18:22 |
| AlanBell | Daviey: sorry, I missed your comment there | 18:22 |
| AlanBell | Daviey: bug 892500 has some information on it | 18:22 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 892500 in ubuntu-community "eir is still not fit for purpose in #ubuntu" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/892500 | 18:22 |
| dax | which links to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots?field.searchtext=%5Beir%5D , which has a list | 18:22 |
| ikonia | Daviey: basically it was rushed into production and doesn't fit in with the current channel needs, eg: doesn't work with ban tracker, noisey on it's notifucations, controlled by freenode so harder to maintain etc etc | 18:22 |
| Daviey | ok | 18:23 |
| Daviey | thanks | 18:23 |
| AlanBell | bug 913541 is the other open one, I think pici was looking at that | 18:24 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 913541 in ubuntu-community "there are a number of people with Ubuntu IRC cloaks who have expired from the ubuntumembers group" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/913541 | 18:24 |
| AlanBell | I will follow up with pici later in the week | 18:24 |
| IdleOne | guessing that will stay in progress for a while | 18:24 |
| AlanBell | yeah, just want to get it down to zero, then manage it as an ongoing process | 18:25 |
| AlanBell | #topic alignment of launchpad teams and channel access lis | 18:25 |
| dax | AlanBell: how long's the list of those now? iirc someone made one and Pici's been contacting folks from it? | 18:25 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic: alignment of launchpad teams and channel access lis | ||
| IdleOne | Can staff remove cloaks even if the user is not on,ine? | 18:25 |
| IdleOne | online | 18:25 |
| Fuchs | yes | 18:25 |
| dax | IdleOne: yes, though in non-adversarial situations like this it's probably better if someone attempts contact first | 18:25 |
| Daviey | Incidentally, my membership expired without me realising it.. I only still have it through inheritance of other groups. :/ | 18:26 |
| AlanBell | ooh | 18:26 |
| IdleOne | AlanBell: maybe set an end date for it and anybody not contactable gets the cloak removed? dax I agree it is better to try and get in touch first, but this can go on forever if there is no time frame | 18:26 |
| AlanBell | that sort of thing does happen, and this process is about sorting that out | 18:26 |
| dax | IdleOne: indeed | 18:26 |
| AlanBell | we have done things like there was a MOTU who expired from that, but wanted to keep membership, so we just sorted it out | 18:27 |
| AlanBell | by checking with the CC and giving the user an IRCC awarded membership | 18:27 |
| AlanBell | so that is the kind of thing we can do to resolve the situation, but each one is individual | 18:28 |
| AlanBell | anyhow, on to the alignment of launchpad teams and channel access lists | 18:28 |
| ikonia | AlanBell: is there anything that can be fed back into the CC that the membership status currently doesn't really mean/do anything | 18:28 |
| AlanBell | I have been doing some stuff with launchpad lib | 18:28 |
| ikonia | maybe ask them to work on something to give it value/credability more | 18:28 |
| Daviey | ikonia: The email alias is lost with alomost immediate effect. | 18:28 |
| AlanBell | ikonia: it does a number of things, some less obvious than others, but we can talk about that later | 18:29 |
| Daviey | (which is probably more important than a cloak) | 18:29 |
| ikonia | Daviey: much more | 18:29 |
| AlanBell | so we have launchpad groups for applying to be an op of a channel, and we have channel access lists | 18:31 |
| AlanBell | these are not very well synchronised | 18:31 |
| AlanBell | I am suggesting that we do a semi-automatic process to align them, and tidy them up | 18:31 |
| Daviey | AlanBell: didn't Pici do some work around this, ~2 years ago? | 18:32 |
| AlanBell | http://paste.ubuntu.com/1003884/ | 18:32 |
| AlanBell | is some code that iterates through the groups and generates stuff that can be passed to chanserv to adjust access lists | 18:32 |
| AlanBell | http://paste.ubuntu.com/1003857/ would be sample output from it | 18:33 |
| AlanBell | I was looking at doing a more intelligent comparison, but it is fine to just pass non-active flags to chanserv, it ignores anything that is already right | 18:33 |
| dax | flags #foo bar -sriRfF+votiA is valid, btw | 18:34 |
| AlanBell | this does depend on a couple of things, it means that every op will need to have their nickserv account name in their launchpad page | 18:34 |
| AlanBell | dax: thanks for that, double the efficiency | 18:34 |
| IdleOne | half the lines | 18:34 |
| AlanBell | most people do have their primary nick, which for most people is their account name | 18:35 |
| dax | AlanBell: lines 93-98 on that output paste look a bit wonky? | 18:35 |
| AlanBell | dax: ah, yes I fixed that bug | 18:35 |
| AlanBell | output is now like that without the wonky | 18:35 |
| IdleOne | chanserv access list. Now with less wonk. | 18:36 |
| AlanBell | Daviey: pici did the work on the members thing, I am not aware of anything directly in this area | 18:37 |
| IdleOne | AlanBell: so besides all the ops adding their nickserv account name to LP what is needed? | 18:37 |
| Daviey | ah, that must be what i am thinking ok. | 18:37 |
| AlanBell | so, what this does is give every op +votiA | 18:37 |
| AlanBell | so some people will get a few tweaks to their access | 18:37 |
| AlanBell | #kubuntu for example has a wide assortment of flags, for reasons unknown to me | 18:38 |
| AlanBell | there is also the option at this time to say that no humans have +F to channels, everyone is the same | 18:38 |
| AlanBell | just the ubuntuirccouncil account having founder access | 18:38 |
| dax | Some folks have IRC handles from other networks (e.g. OFTC) on their Launchpad. Not sure if that breaks things. | 18:38 |
| AlanBell | dax: the code checks for 'freenode' in the network name | 18:39 |
| dax | ah, missed that, nvm | 18:39 |
| AlanBell | the worst that can happen is that chanserv tells me I am trying to do something on a non-registered nick | 18:39 |
| AlanBell | alternatively we could run this and leave the various people with founder flags right where they are | 18:40 |
| AlanBell | opinions please . . . | 18:40 |
| dax | the worst that can happen is that the nick is, in fact, registered by someone else ;) | 18:40 |
| Tm_T | AlanBell: I have no issues for people having founder flags | 18:40 |
| AlanBell | dax: yeah, I will be mailing everyone to point that out | 18:40 |
| IdleOne | that could be messy | 18:40 |
| Tm_T | AlanBell: as long as ubuntuirccouncil has the rights it needs | 18:40 |
| AlanBell | dax: and I will manually check for that, it is only a few people who have multiple nicks listed | 18:41 |
| AlanBell | any other thoughts on people with founder flags? | 18:43 |
| ikonia | the ubuntu irc council is responsible for channels in the names space | 18:43 |
| dax | dunno if this still applies, but the subject of flags in e.g. #kubuntu has been a fun discussion in the past. | 18:43 |
| ikonia | they should have founder flags to the channels, | 18:43 |
| AlanBell | dax: good to know, thanks | 18:44 |
| AlanBell | yeah, going to need founder flags to run the script and do anything useful with the output I should think | 18:45 |
| IdleOne | I'm with ikonia I think the IRCC should have founder on all the channels in the namespace | 18:45 |
| AlanBell | I believe the only one I need to sort out is #lubuntu, I will talk to unit193 about that | 18:45 |
| dax | IdleOne: yeah, I think that bit's uncontroversial | 18:46 |
| Unit193 | A few xubu ones, you don't have any access in -devel | 18:46 |
| dax | in that everyone who disagreed with it has been argued with until they stopped by now :P | 18:46 |
| AlanBell | Unit193: just the core channels list | 18:46 |
| AlanBell | ok, so lets leave people with +F with +F if they are still part of the ops team, and everyone else gets +votiA | 18:47 |
| IdleOne | sounds good | 18:47 |
| AlanBell | and ubuntuirccouncil gets the full christmas tree of blinking lights across the core channels | 18:47 |
| m4v | what does +F allow that doesn't allow the other rest of flags? because I think is only that you can't be removed easily from the access list. | 18:48 |
| AlanBell | I believe you pop up in some IRC clients as the owner of the channel | 18:48 |
| AlanBell | and you can do /msg chanserv help flags to find out more details | 18:49 |
| dax | no clients that I've seen. that'd be a bit insane | 18:49 |
| ikonia | +F is just "your channel" you can do what you want | 18:49 |
| AlanBell | oh, ok that has been a reason some people have given for wanting +F | 18:49 |
| IdleOne | mIRC does it I think, but who cares about mirc anyway | 18:49 |
| m4v | you can "do what you want" with +* | 18:50 |
| dax | I doubt it does it out of the box. Maybe some ridiculous mIRC script does it, iono. Next time someone claims that, I'd be interested in knowing which :) | 18:50 |
| Unit193 | /cs info #xubuntu for example. | 18:50 |
| AlanBell | ok, so this is something I will progress, and there will be various emails informing people every step of the way | 18:51 |
| dax | but anyway. leaving +F people alone would probably be a good way of avoiding possible issues | 18:51 |
| AlanBell | I expect I will make some errors and annoy some people who didn't read the emails, but everything that is done in this exercise is reverseable | 18:51 |
| AlanBell | I will be making every effort to inform people of what I am doing, down to the lines I am sending to chanserv | 18:52 |
| AlanBell | right, lets move on to an item we sadly won't be able to vote on today | 18:52 |
| AlanBell | #topic membership applications | 18:52 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic: membership applications | ||
| m4v | my point is, if you need the flags for practical use, you need +* and not +F, if you want to see UbuntuIrcCouncil in chanserv info, then yeah. | 18:53 |
| IdleOne | for what it is worth. +1 for Fuchs membership | 18:53 |
| AlanBell | we have an application, and I would like to give Fuchs the grilling, even though we can't vote today :) | 18:53 |
| AlanBell | hi Fuchs, please introduce yourself | 18:53 |
| Fuchs | Yes :) Hello everybody, my name is Christian, nickname is Fuchs. I am mostly active on IRC in the german ubuntu channels as an operator, | 18:53 |
| Fuchs | and not very active in the english ones. But some people might know me due to other things I do, e.g. being staff. | 18:54 |
| Fuchs | I have prepared a wiki page with my contributions: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fuchs and some testimonials | 18:54 |
| AlanBell | that is indeed a nice wiki page | 18:54 |
| Fuchs | the first two being from people from ubuntuusers.de, including an ubuntu member (toddyhb), and the last 3 ones from fellow german IRC ops, two of them also came along today :) | 18:54 |
| AlanBell | so who is here shouting for Fuchs? | 18:55 |
| * ppq is :) | 18:55 | |
| Myrtti | I am :-) | 18:55 |
| ikonia | to be honest, it's hard to say anything non-positive | 18:55 |
| AlanBell | well that wiki page answers most of the questions I would have around LoCo involvement and general community contribution | 18:55 |
| Fuchs | feel free to ask away anyway, I'll be happy to answer :) | 18:56 |
| ppq | (I left him a testimonial, I'm Benedikt Haus) | 18:56 |
| AlanBell | Fuchs: what are your plans for community contribution going forward? | 18:56 |
| ikonia | ppq: then why is your IRC name ircname : Paul Giblock | 18:56 |
| Fuchs | AlanBell: with regards to #ubuntu-de: I am currently looking with several persons (including niko) what we could use as a ban management, | 18:57 |
| Myrtti | ikonia: you're looking at the wrong /whois | 18:57 |
| Myrtti | that's why | 18:57 |
| ppq | hehe | 18:57 |
| ikonia | Fuchs: do you have any ban managment | 18:57 |
| ikonia | oops, idiot, sorry | 18:57 |
| Fuchs | AlanBell: since currently we don't have any. I also started the ubuntuusers.de official IRC presence in the past months (you maybe remember the meeting we had), to have contact with our community on IRC as well | 18:57 |
| ppq | ikonia: https://launchpad.net/~ppq that's me | 18:57 |
| Fuchs | ikonia: currently not, no | 18:57 |
| jokrebel | I know Fuchs as always available and very supportive. My English is not so good, but he is very busy at the german Channel with much know-how and very diplomatic in critcal situations. | 18:57 |
| ikonia | ppq: sorry, I got you confused with the guy in #ubuntu-ops, I thought you where hium | 18:58 |
| Fuchs | ikonia: eir came up, since I am staffer I already know it. Then niko told me about ubottu-fr | 18:58 |
| ppq | ikonia: no problem :) | 18:58 |
| Fuchs | ikonia: it will be a topic in our next op meeting again, that's why I am also interested in your experience with it | 18:58 |
| ikonia | all too sensible | 18:59 |
| AlanBell | ok, that sounds great to me Fuchs, I will discuss with the rest of the IRCC and we will vote on it and get back to you as soon as possible | 18:59 |
| Fuchs | AlanBell: great, thank you. You know where you can find me if you need anything else :) | 18:59 |
| IdleOne | Did I say I +1 Fuchs for membership | 18:59 |
| AlanBell | #topic Any Other Business | 18:59 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | IRC Team Meeting | Current topic: Any Other Business | ||
| IdleOne | in case I didn't. I do. | 18:59 |
| AlanBell | IdleOne: you just did :) | 18:59 |
| AlanBell | anyone got anything else they want to raise? | 19:00 |
| IdleOne | My children. close this meeting so we can get on with real life again :P | 19:00 |
| AlanBell | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Sun May 27 19:00:38 2012 UTC. | 19:00 |
| meetingology | Minutes (wiki): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-27-18.07.moin.txt | 19:00 |
| meetingology | Minutes (html): http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-05-27-18.07.html | 19:00 |
| AlanBell | there you go | 19:00 |
| AlanBell | thanks everyone | 19:00 |
| IdleOne | Thank you. | 19:00 |
| Fuchs | Thanks, have a nice evening / day | 19:00 |
| jokrebel | Bye, have a nice time | 19:01 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
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