/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/29/#juju-dev.txt

davecheneywoot, my x220 arrived05:37
davecheneyboo, my 9mm ssd does not fit05:37
imbrandonwhats the best way to obtain the machine_id outside of a hook context , e.g from a script running on cron so i can pass it to a cli app via --machine_id , is that available yet ?05:38
wrtpdavecheney, fwereade: mornin'06:57
fwereadewrtp, heyhey06:57
davecheneymorning' lads06:57
davecheneywrtp: i commited the environ/setconfig stuff last night06:58
wrtpdavecheney: yay!06:59
davecheneyso you should be cool to merge your PutBucket caching06:59
wrtpdavecheney: i'll do the madeBucket stuff next then06:59
davecheneywrtp: jynx06:59
davecheneyalso, my x220 came this afternoon06:59
davecheneyso I am in heaven06:59
wrtpdavecheney: great. it's beenh working well for me06:59
wrtpdavecheney: did you go for solid state?06:59
davecheneyi was going to move over the disk I had in my netbook07:00
davecheneybut it turns out you need a 7mm ssd07:00
davecheneyso i'll put my current one in my desktop and get another one for this07:00
davecheneyat the moment i'm in 7200rpm country07:00
davecheneyeww07:00
davecheneywrtp: fwereade g+ says that gustavo is in +1 atm07:01
davecheneyis that true ?07:01
wrtpdavecheney: yeah07:01
wrtpdavecheney: he's in london07:01
davecheneyconference ?07:01
wrtpdavecheney: sprint of some kind07:01
fwereadedavecheney, wrtp speaks truth :)07:01
davecheneyi heard they are moving out of millbank towers07:01
wrtpdavecheney: yeah. don't know why though.07:02
wrtpdavecheney: maybe lease ran out or something07:02
davecheneysounds like a long way to go for a working bee, but who am i to judge07:02
fwereadedavecheney, wrtp: as I understand it just not enough space there07:02
wrtpfwereade: ah, makes sense07:02
fwereadedavecheney, wrtp: bit disappointed in myself that I never got round to visiting, apparently it was rather cool07:02
wrtpfwereade: me too.07:03
davecheneywrtp: i'm still getting that strange 'cant find cmd/jujud' test error07:03
wrtpfwereade: didn't have an excuse though07:03
davecheneyit eventually sorts itself out07:03
wrtpdavecheney: have you still got it?07:03
davecheneywrtp: happens any time I touch ~/go/src/pkg07:03
davecheneyit's clearly a bug in the go test support for main packages07:03
davecheneybut i'm thinking of just giving up and moving the agents out of main07:03
wrtpdavecheney: yeah.07:03
wrtpdavecheney: that's not the way forward though!07:04
davecheneyi'm on the fence if testing main packages is really the right solution07:04
wrtpdavecheney: i've been trying to home in on the bug, but haven't figured out a way of reliably reproducing it07:04
wrtpdavecheney: i don't see why not.07:04
davecheneywrtp: cd ~/go/src && ./all.bash && rm -rf $GOPATH/pkg/launchpad.net/juju/*07:05
davecheneywill do it07:05
* wrtp tries that07:05
wrtpdavecheney: doesn't seem to07:07
davecheneyoh, sorry, do a hg update07:07
davecheneyyou need to have a different version of the std lib07:07
davecheney% go version07:07
davecheneygo version weekly.2012-03-27 +1afae755566707:07
davecheney^ the last bit has to change07:07
davecheneywrtp: if that doesn't work, then leave it with me07:09
davecheneyi'll figure out what is the cause07:09
davecheneythat upsets it07:09
=== meetingology` is now known as meetingology
fwereadedavecheney, btw, re Machine.Config()... my gut says this should just be a pair of SetInstanceId/InstanceId methods07:13
wrtpdavecheney: nope, that didn't work either07:13
fwereadedavecheney, I'm not sure we really want anyone outside to know/care what keys we're using under the hood07:13
davecheneywrtp: ok, i'll figire out what i'm doing that shits it07:13
davecheneyi'm pretty sure it's related to the damaged I do to my ~/go07:13
davecheneyfwereade: fair call07:13
davecheneyit's not hard to change, the underlying content of the machine node is still a *ConfigNode07:14
davecheneyunless anyone has objections07:14
fwereadedavecheney, cool, thanks :)07:14
fwereadedavecheney, I'll not on the review for form's sake07:14
fwereadenote07:14
davecheneyfwereade: I won't change it tonight (can't be arsed merging) but consider your advice accepted07:15
wrtpdavecheney: why do you think testing main packages might not be good, BTW?07:15
davecheneywrtp: well, 'cos it's buggy07:16
wrtpdavecheney: apart from that07:16
fwereadedavecheney, cheers07:16
wrtpdavecheney: (the bug will be fixed)07:16
wrtpdavecheney: i only see that bug *very* sporadically BTW07:16
davecheneyi think (although this is only a matter of personal taste) that main packages should be as small as possible, they should just import the stuff that they need, instanciate it07:16
davecheneyand off they go07:16
davecheneyit's just a personal preference07:16
davecheneysort of based on the way that the go tool works07:16
davecheneyie, most of the logic is in go/build and friends07:17
wrtpdavecheney: that's definitely not the way that the go tool is written!07:17
davecheneyshows what I know :)07:17
davecheneyanyway, it's not even a small objection07:17
wrtpdavecheney: there are >7000 lines in cmd/go/*.go07:17
wrtpdavecheney: bits which factor out nicely are done as packages, yeah07:18
wrtpdavecheney: but i'm not sure i agree about the principle that all the logic of command line program should be in external packages.07:18
davecheneymore guidelines07:19
wrtpdavecheney: i think packages should be useful...07:19
davecheneyi don't think of main as a package07:19
wrtpdavecheney: it's not07:19
wrtpdavecheney: well... it is strictly, but.07:19
davecheneyand that forms the basis of my preference, nothing more07:20
fwereadewrtp, I see where davecheney's coming from, but in my case I suspect this is a prejudice based on unpleasant experiences with vast untestable mains in c/c++ :)07:20
wrtpdavecheney: but i'm thinking about the package that you hive off so that the main package can be minimal07:20
wrtpdavecheney: taking it to its logical conclusion you just get another package with a Main function...07:21
davecheneywrtp: there are limits to any good intention07:21
wrtpdavecheney: and in Go (that bug notwithstanding) we *can* test main packages and their component pieces07:22
davecheneywrtp: maybe I should just try to figure out why go test keeps fucking up, then there is no reason for main to be a 2nd class citizen :)07:22
wrtpdavecheney: indeed.07:22
davecheneywhat time does aram come online ?07:23
davecheneyi was going to stick around for a chat07:23
wrtpdavecheney: as i said, i only see that bug about once a month or so07:23
wrtpdavecheney: i don't know when Aram comes on line, but soon I imagine07:23
davecheneywrtp: i get it more frequently, i'm pretty sutre it's related to linker skew when I rebuild go07:24
davecheneyand I remember a bug with the go tool not checking the return code for the linker or go pack07:24
davecheneywhich might be a clue07:24
wrtpdavecheney: we had the thought that we could try to have a G+ hangout with all of us today. do you think that might be possible?07:24
davecheneyremy_o had a CL07:24
davecheneybut it got superceeded by another07:24
wrtpdavecheney: doesn't linker skew result in an error (incompatible versions, or something)?:07:25
davecheneywrtp: it _should_, but I think in this case the actual error is being eaten, so you don't get the .a on disk, then testing can't find it07:25
davecheneywhich is my suspicion07:25
wrtpdavecheney: BTW if i touch the Go files, the problem goes away for me07:26
davecheneyyeah, if you rebuild things in just the right way, and face the right direction, then problem goes away07:26
davecheneydo you use go build or go get ?07:26
wrtpdavecheney: in the normal course of things?07:27
davecheneyalias gb='go install -v'07:27
wrtpdavecheney: for juju, i rarely use anything but go test07:27
davecheneyoh, that is weird07:27
davecheneythat isn't supposed to be like that07:27
davecheneyi thought I made it go install -v07:27
wrtpdavecheney: i use go test -i too07:28
davecheneysorry, i thought it was go get -v07:28
wrtpdavecheney: why would you use go get?07:29
wrtpdavecheney: i suppose it gets dependencies automatically if they're not there07:29
davecheneyyup07:29
davecheneyturns out i don't need it :)07:29
wrtpdavecheney: but if they are there, then there's no difference.07:29
wrtpi only use go get when i fetch something new07:29
davecheneyoh, i remember now, i used to alias gb='go build -v'07:30
davecheneybut that won't install intermediate pacakges07:30
davecheneyso I switch to to go install07:30
wrtpdavecheney: i don't use go build because it leaves the executables around07:31
wrtpdavecheney: and they make the tree dirty07:31
davecheneyyeah, and poos in your working copy07:31
wrtpdavecheney: so can you reproduce issue 3417 now, out of interest?07:32
davecheneysporadically07:33
wrtpdavecheney: i meant right at this moment, by following your instructions above.07:41
wrtpdavecheney: but it doesn't matter - i was just interested07:42
davecheneywrtp: actually it's happening to me right now07:43
davecheneyi wonder if it's timestamp related07:43
wrtpdavecheney: that's my thought07:43
davecheneyctime <> mtime07:44
wrtpdavecheney: nah, not ctime07:44
davecheneyi run with noatime07:44
davecheneybut I don't think go can even look at that07:44
wrtpdavecheney: could you do an ls -ltR of $GOROOT and $GOPATH07:44
davecheneyu want it all ?07:45
wrtpdavecheney: i reckon. it won't be much gzipped and it's easier than just picking out the bits we need.07:45
wrtpdavecheney: in fact, don't worry about the -t bit07:45
wrtpdavecheney: better in alphabetical order07:45
wrtpdavecheney: if you could make it print the times in unix format, that would be better too07:46
davecheneywrtp: i'll do it after dinner07:46
wrtpdavecheney: as numeric timestamps, i mean. i can't remember the option (if there is one)07:46
wrtpdavecheney: cool.07:46
davecheneytrying to finish up and send off my email07:46
davecheneyto see if I can get some review time with gustavo07:46
wrtpdavecheney: i've been waiting for the opportunity to arise again07:46
davecheneytrying to avoid another setconfig by keeping the changeset as small as possible07:47
davecheneywrtp: bloody lbox, you can't add -req if you've already proposed, even in -wip07:55
wrtpdavecheney: no, it's a pain07:55
davecheneyreqs are a pain, full stop07:55
wrtpdavecheney: it's not lbox, it's launchpad07:55
* davecheney shakes fist at lp07:55
wrtpdavecheney: you can't change the prereq of a merge07:55
davecheneyand you can't have more than on prereq O_o!07:56
wrtpdavecheney: you'll have to delete the merge request07:56
davecheneys/on/one07:56
wrtpdavecheney: yeah, that too07:56
davecheneyDVCS for the fail07:56
davecheneyanyway, this is just end of day whinging07:56
wrtpdavecheney: lp is not the greatest07:56
davecheneyfwereade: // InstanceId returns the provider specific identifier for this machine. If no id has been asssinged by the provider, this value will be blank.07:59
fwereadedavecheney, SGTM07:59
davecheneyand it just panics if there is crap in the config node08:00
davecheneyactually, i'm not going to do this today, i'm going to call it an evening08:00
davecheneyit's 6pm08:00
fwereadedavecheney, yeah, have a rest08:00
davecheneyfwereade: but i'll address that first thing tomorrow08:00
davecheneylater lads08:01
fwereadedavecheney, not 100% sure about panicing08:01
fwereadedavecheney, take care08:01
TheMueMorning, and good night davecheney08:05
fwereadeheya TheMue :)08:20
TheMuefwereade: Moin08:21
wrtpdavecheney: see ya08:37
niemeyerGood mornings!08:59
fwereadeheya niemeyer09:18
rogpeppeniemeyer: yo!09:40
niemeyerHey guys09:51
niemeyerfwereade: LGTM on charm-store-backend09:57
niemeyerfwereade: Good stuff09:57
TheMueniemeyer <- themue.moin()09:58
fwereadeniemeyer, thanks :)09:58
niemeyerTheMue: Moin :)09:58
rogpeppeTheMue: i've been looking at doing the machine provider, and i realise that we haven't got a unit watcher yet. have you looked at that at all?10:01
rogpeppes/machine provider/machine agent/10:02
TheMuerogpeppe: You mean the watcher returned by watch_service_unit_state in the py code?10:04
rogpeppeTheMue: i think so10:04
* rogpeppe checks10:04
TheMuerogpeppe: If so then yes, it's a not yet covered watcher.10:05
Arammorning.10:05
rogpeppeAram: heya10:06
TheMueAram: Moin.10:06
fwereadeAram, heyhey10:06
rogpeppeTheMue: actually the one i need is MachineState.watch_assigned_units10:09
TheMuerogpeppe: That's also an open watcher. Machine is so far very small.10:10
rogpeppeTheMue: i could do it assuming you're currently working on something else.10:11
TheMuerogpeppe: Currently I'm working on State.AddRelation() (redesign after review). Then I can do the watcher.10:11
TheMuerogpeppe: Oh, if you would like to then thank you.10:11
rogpeppefwereade: do you know if it's possible to have two units on the same machine using the same charm? by my very coarse reading, it looks like it might be possible and that it could cause problems.10:31
rogpeppeniemeyer: ^10:37
fwereaderogpeppe, expand a little please... I can't think of an obvious way to do so, but there probably is one10:41
fwereaderogpeppe, and it depends on the problems... is it the known will-try-to-use-same-ports deal, or something else that's worrying you?10:42
rogpeppefwereade: we could have two subordinate services with different service names but using the same charm, right?10:42
rogpeppefwereade: it's the shared directory that concerns me10:42
niemeyerrogpeppe: The same *charm* in the same machine? Of course10:42
fwereaderogpeppe, hmm, ok, I haven't looked into subordinates in details... I *thought* distinct units got distinct dirs10:42
fwereaderogpeppe, and wil therefore have 2 copies of the charm10:43
rogpeppeniemeyer: it looks to me like a given charm will always be stored in the same directory, regardless of the service10:43
niemeyerrogpeppe: That's bogus10:43
fwereaderogpeppe, that said I have occasionally spotted and fixed bugs along those lines so there could well be more I missed10:43
rogpeppeniemeyer: yeah, i think so. i may be wrong though.10:43
niemeyerrogpeppe: If you mean expanded in the same directory, that is10:43
fwereaderogpeppe, are you sure the charm isn't expanded to a unit-specific dir?10:43
rogpeppeniemeyer: yes i do. or at least, that's how it looks.10:43
rogpeppefwereade: no :-)10:43
niemeyerrogpeppe: If different service units are living in the same directory, that's a bug10:43
fwereaderogpeppe, do you have a reference in the python?10:44
rogpeppefwereade: unit/deploy.py10:44
rogpeppefwereade: download_charm10:44
rogpeppefwereade: charms_directory is always $units_directory/charms10:45
fwereaderogpeppe, hmm, yeah, looks like crack to me10:45
rogpeppefwereade: ok, thanks10:45
niemeyerrogpeppe: service unit != charm, FWIW10:45
fwereaderogpeppe, niemeyer: one thought: why is the machine agent responsible for this in the first place?10:45
rogpeppeniemeyer: yeah, i thought so10:45
niemeyerfwereade: Probably historical, before we had subordinates10:46
fwereaderogpeppe, niemeyer: it's always seemed odd to me that we have duplicated code for getting and unpacking charms in unit/machine agents10:46
niemeyerfwereade: Might make sense to have the unit doing it10:46
fwereadeniemeyer, +110:46
rogpeppefwereade: yeah, perhaps the unit agent should unpack all charms10:46
rogpeppefwereade: which makes the machine agent simpler, which sounds good to me right now :-)10:46
fwereaderogpeppe, cool :)10:47
rogpeppefwereade: while you're here...10:48
fwereaderogpeppe, yeah?10:48
rogpeppefwereade: in agents/machine.py, it looks to me like service_state_manager is never used. am i missing something superclassy?10:48
* fwereade looks10:49
fwereaderogpeppe, can't see any usage of it, can't see any reason to need it in the first place10:50
rogpeppefwereade: thanks10:50
rogpeppeniemeyer: i think we've said that we want to build in upgrade from the beginning. is there a plan of how to do that, in particular how we want to tell the agents to upgrade themselves?11:26
fwereaderogpeppe, do you recall any relevant details re plans for the dummy environ's zookeeper?11:49
rogpeppefwereade: more or less11:49
fwereaderogpeppe, I think I need that soonish, so anything yu can transfer would be good11:50
rogpeppefwereade: i'll just have a peek to remind myself11:50
rogpeppefwereade: the idea is to start a zookeeper if the zookeeper attribute in the config is true11:51
rogpeppefwereade: it'll only happen the first time that an environ of the given name is opened, but that seems right to me11:52
fwereaderogpeppe, the issue is that I'm pretty sure we don't want to start a new zookeeper every time we need a dummy environ for tests11:52
fwereaderogpeppe, hm, I must be missing something11:52
* fwereade looks again11:52
rogpeppefwereade: that's fine - don't set the zookeeper attr to true in those cases.11:53
fwereaderogpeppe, I mean I think we'll want to share zookeepers... won;t we?11:53
rogpeppefwereade: hmm. that's potentially awkward, but should be doable11:54
fwereaderogpeppe, I guess what I was really asking is "this feels awkward but necessary, has someone already come up with a nice plan?"11:54
rogpeppefwereade: i think it can all be done inside dummy with no visibility outside. i'd have a global instance that's used/started for the first zk after any Reset.11:55
rogpeppefwereade: (if someone opens two dummy environs at the same time, we don't want them to share zks)11:56
rogpeppefwereade: alternatively... we could just keep all zk instances around. probably simpler now i come to think of it.11:57
fwereaderogpeppe, I fret that shutting them down will become complex11:57
rogpeppefwereade: i don't think that's too hard. we'd need to provide a Shutdown method or something.11:58
rogpeppefwereade: and we'd need to implement state.Close to return any zk instance that the state is using to the unused pool11:59
fwereaderogpeppe, it's knowing when to call it that's the problem11:59
niemeyerrogpeppe: Nothing written down yet, but it's time to talk about it indeed11:59
* niemeyer has to switch rooms11:59
niemeyerbrb11:59
rogpeppefwereade: all in all i doubt that it should take more than about 30 lines of code12:00
fwereaderogpeppe, hmm, actually, the existing model where we start up a shared ZK per test package may be a good way to go... we just need to inform the dummy environ of it at some point12:00
fwereaderogpeppe, I'm not too bothered about starting multiple dummy environs at the same time... what's the use case?12:01
rogpeppefwereade: we do that in some places, but those cases probably don't need zk12:01
rogpeppefwereade: a panic if it happened would probably be fine.12:02
rogpeppefwereade: that's nicely simpler actually.12:02
rogpeppefwereade: then Reset can remove everything from the dummy's zk12:02
rogpeppefwereade: or maybe the tests should do that, i dunno12:03
fwereaderogpeppe, probably one for the tests, but not sure... and, hmm, bootstrap can Initialize state, now I think of it :)12:03
fwereaderogpeppe, if zookeeper is set, that is12:04
rogpeppefwereade: i think i like the idea of handing off the server to the dummy environ12:04
rogpeppefwereade: dummy.SetZookeeper(*zookeeper.Server) perhaps12:04
fwereaderogpeppe, yeah12:05
rogpeppedummy.SetZookeeper(testing.StartZkServer()) seems nice12:05
rogpeppefwereade: then, yeah, have dummy.Reset do the ZkRemoveTree12:06
rogpeppefwereade: and have dummy.environConfig.Open check, if cfg.zookeeper is true, that we're not creating a new state.12:07
rogpeppefwereade: and panic otherwise12:08
rogpeppefwereade: or actually it can return an error12:08
fwereaderogpeppe, sounds like a plan, I'll see what I can do12:08
rogpeppefwereade: sounds good. thanks.12:09
rogpeppeniemeyer: lsb_release prints n/a when it can't find the current release12:45
niemeyerrogpeppe: The test still looks bogus.. why is it conflating an error with a return of a value12:45
niemeyerrogpeppe: Or do I misunderstand it?12:46
rogpeppeniemeyer: it means the test will still run successfully even on a non-ubuntu platform12:46
rogpeppeniemeyer: or a platform where lsb_release doesn't exist12:46
Aramrogpeppe: is what you are doing now related to what I asked you yesterday about hardcoding CurrentSeries and CurrentArch?12:47
rogpeppeAram: yes12:47
niemeyerrogpeppe: Ok, looks good then12:47
niemeyerrogpeppe: A comment would be nice12:48
rogpeppeniemeyer: thanks. and thanks for the review. will do a comment.12:48
Aramrogpeppe: maybe I'm misunderstanding something fundamental, but where do you want to run lsb_release?12:49
rogpeppeAram: in the test. to make sure my parsing of /etc/lsb-release is sane.12:49
rogpeppeAram: see https://codereview.appspot.com/6260048/diff/2001/environs/tools_test.go#newcode27612:50
Aramah, ok.12:50
Aramin the test makes sense.12:50
Arambut then we can't run the test on every platform.12:50
rogpeppeAram: we can. and that's the point.12:51
Aramok, let me look at the patch.12:51
rogpeppeAram: that was what we were just discussing12:51
Aramso the test runs without lsb_release, but its utility is reduced if lsb_release does not exist.12:52
rogpeppeniemeyer: rather than full-blown unquote, i'm doing strings.Trim(line[len(p):], ` \t'"`) which should be sufficient i think12:53
rogpeppeAram: yeah12:53
niemeyerrogpeppe: Yeah, sounds good12:56
niemeyerrogpeppe: Thanks12:56
rogpeppeniemeyer: i wouldn't mind leaving the "current Ubuntu release name" in. i remember being a little confused when i came across "series" being used all over the place in the charm packages, and didn't realise it was a synonym for "ubuntu release". if we're going to have a comment anywhere, perhaps this is a good place.12:56
rogpeppeniemeyer: it doesn't appear to be a commonly used term even in the ubuntu community12:56
rogpeppes/ in./ comment in./12:57
niemeyerrogpeppe: I'm not sure.. the whole code base trusts on the term12:57
niemeyerrogpeppe: That doesn't look like a special instance of it12:57
rogpeppeniemeyer: yes, but nowhere do we actually say what it is.12:58
rogpeppeniemeyer: as far as i've seen12:58
rogpeppeniemeyer: this at least will show if someone does a recursive grep for Series12:58
niemeyerrogpeppe: My point is that this isn't a special place.. there are tons of places one will not understand, and this isn't documenting them12:58
Aramrogpeppe: why not copy some known existing lsb-release files and test against those, that way the test is meaningful on every platform?12:59
niemeyerrogpeppe: But sure, I don't mind too much either12:59
Aramand that way you don't need to care about lsb_release at all.12:59
niemeyerAram: It is doing that12:59
rogpeppeniemeyer: it's reasonably special i think. it's actually the only place AFAIK that connects the actual running release with the term.12:59
niemeyerrogpeppe: Nevermind.. comments is great, thank you13:00
rogpeppeAram: i did that. i could do with a few more samples though. feel free to add to the tests table.13:00
Aramoh.13:00
rogpeppeniemeyer: thanks :-)13:00
* Aram finds Rietveld hard to read.13:00
* rogpeppe actually made up the quantal lsb-release contents BTW13:02
rogpeppeha, of course the tests fail when CurrentSeries="unknown" anyway13:08
rogpeppehmm, just saw this:13:13
rogpepperuntime: signal received on thread not created by Go.13:13
rogpeppeFAILlaunchpad.net/juju/go/state8.131s13:13
rogpeppethat's a little worrying13:14
rogpeppecan't reproduce though13:15
Aramprobably from zookeeper?13:21
TheMueAh, redesign looks nicer and builds, now adopt to tests.13:35
niemeyerAram: Probably.. which means we'll solve it as a side effect, hopefully13:56
niemeyerAram: Are you up to come on Thursday still?14:04
Aramniemeyer: I am not sure... I'd like to. I haven't heard anything from BTS though, I don't know what that means.14:08
niemeyerAram: They've returned to me this morning14:08
niemeyerAram: and we got approval just now14:08
niemeyerAram: I've asked for a second option, though14:09
niemeyerAram: Since the option they gave was coming early Thursday and returning early Friday14:09
niemeyerAram: If you're returning early friday, may as well stay for the day14:09
Aramindeed.14:09
Aramearly thursday -> late friday would be prefereable.14:10
niemeyerAram: That's what I asked for.. let's see if they return and I'll put you back on the loop with a +114:11
Aramok, assuming the feedback is positive, what's the plan? who buys the tickets, me or the company?14:12
Aramhi robbiew.14:12
robbiewAram: hey! :)14:12
robbiewAram: company buys the tickets.../me assumes he knows what this conversation is about14:12
Aramok :).14:13
niemeyerrobbiew: Yes :)14:15
niemeyerAram: The agency will sort out for it14:15
=== Guest__ is now known as smaddock
rogpeppeniemeyer: would it be good for me to come down too, if Aram makes it over?15:08
niemeyerrogpeppe: I'm not entirely sure.. let's see how the sprint here looks like15:09
niemeyerrogpeppe: Let's sync up on that again tomorrow15:09
rogpeppeniemeyer: k15:09
AramI believe I'm just waiting for the e-ticket confirmation now.15:16
Aramrogpeppe: do you happen to know if Maestro cards work in the UK?15:19
Aramwork as in "being widespread", I'm sure if I try hard enough I'll find ATMs.15:20
rogpeppeAram: probably.15:20
rogpeppeAram: it's mastercard, right?15:20
Aramnot really. it's owned by mastercard, but it's a different product.15:21
Aramhere in austria mastercard is the only widespread card that works. good luck with visa/mastercard.15:21
Aramalmost nobody accepts them,15:21
Arams/mastercard/maestro/15:21
Arammeh15:21
AramI'll rephrase :)15:21
Aramhere in austria *maestro* is the only widespread card that works. good luck with visa/mastercard.15:22
rogpeppeAram: ah, i've never had any problems with visa. but then again i haven't spent any time in austria :-)15:23
fwereadeAram, fwiw I'm used to seeing maestro symbols on ATMs in the UK15:28
Aramgreta15:28
Aramgreat15:28
rogpeppefwereade: you've got a couple of reviews15:40
fwereaderogpeppe, sweet, tyvm15:45
fwereadegn all, need to be off promptly tonight16:03
fwereadetake care :)16:03
* Aram is away for an hour or so.16:15
rogpeppefwereade: ok. gn.16:43
* rogpeppe is done for the day. see you tomorrow...17:04
* Aram back.17:38
TheMueniemeyer: Thx for LGTM, goes in now.18:08
niemeyerTheMue: Cheers!18:20
niemeyerand I really need some food now18:20
niemeyerI'll see you all later/tomorrow!18:20
TheMueniemeyer: Enjoy.18:21
Aramrogpeppe: do you use upas?19:00
hazmatrogpeppe, the extracted charm is separate for multiple units19:15
hazmatthe download directory is the same as its merely a cache19:16

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