[06:18] <mlankhorst> bryceh/raof: Any luck in breaking things? It was meant for testing the renamed stack so no point in keeping it up publicly if it's not being broken ;)
[06:18] <tjaalton> yesterday was the memorial day in the US, so bryce at least was doing something more fun I hope :)
[06:19] <mlankhorst> ah kk
[06:19] <RAOF> Ah, that's why no one was around?
[06:20] <mlankhorst> i guess so, it was some holiday in netherlands too but it was too warm so i just worked and will probably work less for the rest of the week to compensate :P
[06:21] <tjaalton> getting chilly up here :/
[06:22] <mlankhorst> i wanted to bike 45 km, but it was too hot so some other time this week I will :)
[06:25] <tjaalton> i'm looking for a new bike, but can't decide between a cyclocross or a roadrace model :)
[06:25] <tjaalton> should probably just go and try them out
[06:26] <bryceh> yes, this weekend went to the Oregon beach near Astoria with bdmurray, kees, slangasek & families and drank whiskey, played House on Haunted Hill, Small World, other assorted games.  Oh and built a Star Wars puzzle.  And watched bdmurray's boys fish and row around on the lake.
[06:26] <bryceh> whatever work that got done was accidental :-)
[06:27] <tjaalton> i saw some emails by slangasek ;)
[06:27] <bryceh> he did sneak off with his laptop a few times
[06:29] <bryceh> fun weekend though in any case.  I think I won 80% of the games.  :-)
[06:30] <bryceh> tjaalton, btw I did chat with slangasek a bit about the debian versioning on the xorg packages for the lts
[06:31] <mlankhorst> bryceh: what games
[06:31] <tjaalton> bryceh: re games; you're a pro ;)
[06:32] <tjaalton> cullaby lake?
[06:32] <bryceh> he agreed that while the minor versioning issue by debian seems valid, since we've not needed to use it so far, it's something we can probably safely ignore for our purposes.
[06:32] <tjaalton> yeah
[06:32] <tjaalton> we'll cut corners anyway
[06:34] <tjaalton> also, we can minimize the backported list of drivers to the ones we care, and which get new hw support (video; ati, intel, nouveau, maybe openchrome. input; evdev, synaptics, wacom..)
[06:34] <mlankhorst> is this for lts backports?
[06:34] <tjaalton> although, if the .2 install media will have only the backported set it won't work
[06:35] <mlankhorst> tjaalton: It's less work to do all the drivers than only some specific drivers
[06:36] <tjaalton> mlankhorst: ok then :)
[06:37] <tjaalton> and it's probably true
[06:37] <mlankhorst> it is true, most drivers run flawlessly through the rename script
[06:37] <mlankhorst> special casing in xserver-xorg-video-all and input-all is more complex
[06:37] <tjaalton> bryceh: btw, are you into scifi strategy games? there's a new (finnish) game called Eclipse.. I know the artist :)
[06:38] <mlankhorst> if you've seen the rules of most drivers, they're so simple it incurs no extra cost
[06:38] <tjaalton> yep
[06:38] <RAOF> tjaalton: Has it won the Kennerspiel des Jahres yet? :)
[06:39] <RAOF> This is basically my threshold for consideration.
[06:39] <tjaalton> RAOF: hehe, don't think it has done that yet
[06:40] <tjaalton> but the ratings are good http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/72125/eclipse
[06:40] <mlankhorst> anyhow, i guess ill try to see if i can break the stack one more time then get some work done :)
[06:41] <tjaalton> (looks like it's in stock now.. should probably get it though I've noone to play it with :)
[06:46] <bryceh> "cullaby lake" - yes, our house had a boat landing on it, the kids went out in canoes and paddle boats on it fishing
[06:46] <bryceh> scifi strategy games - totally into that.  will have to check out eclipse
[06:46] <tjaalton> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4LevjuhYqc&feature=player_embedded
[06:47] <tjaalton> "thematic rank: 1"
[06:47] <bryceh> http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/72125/eclipse
[06:48] <tjaalton> yep
[06:51] <bryceh> what games - small world (awesome! highly recommended).  Betrayal at House on the Hill - fun.  Impossible Machine, Word on the Street, Ticket to Ride: Europe, Bohnanza, Gardens of Alhambra.  Others also played Apples to Apples, Settlers of Catan, Guillotine, Ricochet Robots.
[06:55] <bryceh> 900 pieces!!
[07:05] <tjaalton> yeah it has a few components
[07:52] <mlankhorst> bryceh/raof: Seems I can install xserver-xorg-dev or xserver-xorg-dev-lts-backport-quantal with the renamed stack, is this a feature or a bug? :P
[07:52] <RAOF> mlankhorst: I think that's indicative of a bug? Those two packages should have file conflicts?
[07:52] <mlankhorst> RAOF: i cant install it at the same time
[07:52] <RAOF> Oh, no. You can install one or the other? Yeah, that should be ok.
[07:53] <mlankhorst> i can just install the old one atop the new stack
[07:53] <RAOF> I don't think that's a problem.
[07:53] <RAOF> It's possibly even a feature.
[07:54] <mlankhorst> probably
[08:01] <mlankhorst> but makes it annoying if anything depends on xorg-dev since it will prefer to pick the unrenamed one by default
[08:04] <mlankhorst> oh, seems libxatracker and libglu are not pulled in by default..
[08:04] <RAOF> By what?
[08:05] <RAOF> Only the vmware DDX depends on xatracker, right?
[08:05] <mlankhorst> if i switch stacks they're happy to stay unrenamed
[08:05] <jcristau> libGLU hasn't changed in like 10 years
[08:06] <RAOF> Has that been split out of mesa yet?
[08:06] <mlankhorst> not sure
[08:06] <jcristau> i think not
[08:06] <mlankhorst> glw was
[08:07] <mlankhorst> but if vmware depends on xatracker, hmm..
[08:07] <mlankhorst> yeah libxatracker1
[08:08] <mlankhorst> do we care enough to force it to depend on the renamed version?
[08:08] <RAOF> libxatracker is built from mesa, right?
[08:08] <RAOF> I think we do care.
[08:08] <mlankhorst> ok
[08:09] <mlankhorst> in that case I'll update the mapping file :)
[08:09] <mlankhorst> hopefully that will fix shlibs depends automatically, else I'll add a vmware specific hack
[08:20] <mlankhorst> oh right, it would fix things
[09:16] <mlankhorst> ok xserver-xorg-lts-backport-quantal seems to work, it pulls in everything except libglu-mesa1, which we may or may not care about :)
[09:23]  * RAOF is firmly in the "not care" group
[09:23] <mlankhorst> RAOF: yeah, but it might be useful for the cd, shrug.
[09:24] <mlankhorst> should I try to see if I can make an image with all the non-renamed packages removed?
[09:25] <RAOF> That'd be a good test.
[09:29] <mlankhorst> hm how is the livecd usually mastered? the documentation i find only mentions modify existing images
[09:45] <RAOF> mlankhorst: I have no idea; cjwatson or pitti would be the best candidates, I think.
[09:51] <mlankhorst> Otherwise I won't bother, seems it ought to work because I can install the renamed x stack and restart lightdm with it. I bet it's just copying root to a new place
[09:56] <mlankhorst> which would mean a boot test would be just as much validation :)
[10:36] <mlankhorst> do we care about the downgrade path? eg remove quantal after install
[10:48] <mlankhorst> the replaces make those fun
[10:56] <mlankhorst> cant really think of an easy way to do it safely, even
[11:01] <RAOF> We generally do not support package downgrades; I don't think it's tremendously important to support it here.
[11:05] <mlankhorst> ok good
[11:05] <mlankhorst> else you can very easily end up with a broken system due to replaces
[11:08] <Azelphur> I'm having an issue with wine, nvidia and 64bit, I spoke to the wine people and they say I don't have the 32bit compatibility libs for my driver, which is causing wine to fall back to using an ancient OpenGL version,  yet I have ia32-libs installed. Any ideas?
[11:17] <RAOF> Azelphur: Which driver? nouveau or nvidia-current?
[11:17] <Azelphur> nvidia-current (x-swat)
[11:17] <Azelphur> I found a wine forum post on the subject, http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=15537
[11:17] <RAOF> That ships the 32bit libs itself; ia32-libs is not necessary.
[11:17] <RAOF> (for libGL; the rest of ia32-libs is needed, unless you're on Precise, where multiarch works)
[11:18] <Azelphur> I'm on precise
[11:19] <RAOF> As you see on the bug, it's not actually a driver problem.
[11:20] <Azelphur> ah, I'm still reading through it all trying to figure it out
[11:20] <RAOF> Looks like it's common-or-garden wine bug.
[11:20] <Azelphur> haha, the wine thread says it's a ubuntu bug xD
[11:21] <RAOF> It also applies to intel (I see it, although it doesn't affect anything I actually use).
[11:21] <Azelphur> \o/
[11:22] <Azelphur> YAY, Bug report on launchpad workaround works
[11:23] <Azelphur> echo 0|sudo tee /proc/sys/kernel/yama/ptrace_scope <-- this is what fixes my issues \o/
[11:23] <Azelphur> looks like scott richie is working on that issue, so all good, :)
[11:28] <RAOF> Seriously, that's it?
[11:28] <Azelphur> yes, it causes CS:GO to crash on startup for me
[11:28] <Azelphur> wine is still complaining about GL_VERSION stuff not working, but at least my game works now :D
[11:28] <RAOF> What crazy reason does wine have to ptrace a non-child to determine GL capabilities?
[11:29] <Azelphur> no, I apparently have two separate issues that I thought were connected
[11:29] <RAOF> Ah.
[11:29] <Azelphur> CS:GO wouldn't start, I assumed because of wine complaining about OpenGL issues
[11:29] <Azelphur> but CS:GO turned out to not start because of that
[11:29] <Azelphur> I still have the opengl issue, but at least my game works now :)
[11:29] <RAOF> In which case I exclaim: what crazy reason do they have for ptracing a non-child process :)
[11:30] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[11:30] <Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/36P7d3KU is wines complaints about my OpenGL, should you be interested :)
[14:27] <mlankhorst> sforshee: it arrived :)
[14:28] <sforshee> mlankhorst, that was fast
[14:28] <sforshee> enjoy :)
[19:05] <bryceh> mlankhorst, lts upgrade successful (although found a couple typos(?) in your directions
[19:07] <mlankhorst> ..¿
[19:11] <bryceh> mlankhorst, posted to list
[19:12] <mlankhorst> oh woops typo :P