=== rhorstkoetter1 is now known as rhorstkoetter [12:27] hi edubuntu team. I'm currently rather confused by a default edubuntu 12.04 setup and I hope to get help here. [12:27] I had ubuntu 12.04 running with ltsp installed, thin clients booting etc (installed myself from scratch) [12:28] now, I decided to switch to edubuntu and nothing works anymore :p I checked ltsp server during install and was greeted with a strange misconfiguration. let me explain [12:29] edubuntu configured 192.168.0.254 as a dhcp server address in /etc/network/interfaces [12:30] thin clients won't boot. then I discovered that dhcp server in /etc/ltsp/dhcp(d).conf was at 192.168.0.1 instead [12:30] cannot work [12:30] then I adjusted /etc/network/interfaces to be 192.168.0.1 to match the /etc/ltsp/dhcp(d).conf [12:31] that's odd, could you paste your dhcpd.conf file to http://paste.ubuntu.com/ ? [12:31] but still thin clients won't boot while they did with my own setup (built from scratch) [12:31] jonathan_: sure enough, wait a second please [12:32] need to ssh (hope that works) [12:33] on the machine you could also type "pastebinit -i /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf" [12:33] and it would do it for you [12:33] jonathan_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1014673/ [12:33] heh, highvoltage incognito :) [12:33] I haven't changed anything, i.e. it's just the default [12:34] (fine) === jonathan_ is now known as highvoltage [12:34] ogra_: I had a power failure at home and am connected via laptop :) [12:34] ogra_: hey you're not quite "ogra" either ;) [12:34] ah, i saw you had issues with a panda ? [12:35] highvoltage: this is /etc/network/interfaces http://paste.ubuntu.com/1014674/ [12:35] ah that wasn't a panda, at least [12:35] true ... but i'm to lazy to configure my IRC proxy for auth [12:36] highvoltage: this has been the default http://paste.ubuntu.com/1014677/ - I should mention that edubuntu also switched network interface naming eth0/eth1 during install/installed system. thus the change from eth0 to eth1 [12:37] rhorstkoetter: hmm, ok, that's not nice [12:38] highvoltage: do you see any issues? what else you go wrong here? is there a need to rebuild the client chroot when editing /etc/network/interfaces while leaving /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf intact/default? [12:38] no [12:38] s/you/could [12:38] rhorstkoetter: I guess you should change "eth0" to "eth0" in your /etc/network/interface file and restart networking and the dhcp server [12:39] did you restart the dhcpd after changing the config ? [12:39] (sorry I'm a big groggy just woke up and haven't had coffee so if there's typos, that's why :) ) [12:39] ogra_: I rebooted twice [12:39] highvoltage: change eth0 to what? network configuration is OK already (matched to dhcpd.conf) [12:41] highvoltage: eth1 is internal ltsp/dhcp interface 192.168.0.1 matching dhcpd.conf, eth0 is to the outside world [12:41] * rhorstkoetter confused [12:41] ah, your interfaces file that you pasted only had eth0 set to 192.168.0.254 [12:42] 192.168.0.254 is usually the default used for LTSP setups [12:42] (for the server) [12:42] highvoltage: wait please. we misunderstand each other [12:42] sure I understand that [12:42] but [12:42] that cannot work [12:43] if dhcp server is configured as 192.168.0.254 in interfaces and 192.168.0.1 in dhcpd.conf (and that has been the default after edubuntu came up for the first time) - how should that work? [12:44] the eth0/eth1 switch was just another misconfiguration of edubuntu [12:44] the server IP isnt configured anywhere in dhcpd.conf usually [12:44] only DNS and gateway [12:44] (gateway should point to the server IP though) [12:45] ah, I see, you're right [12:45] still, the setup doesn't work and it worked with a self-configured ubuntu install just half an hour ago with the same thin client (10, all working) [12:46] so, I assume something is wrong with edubuntu default config (for me at least). what else may I try (assumed you testify my confs are correct)? [12:46] rebuild the client chroot? [12:47] how would that help ? [12:47] and how does your client not boot, whats the error ? [12:48] ogra_: it doesn't find the dhcp server [12:49] and you are sure there is only one dhcp server running in your network ? [12:49] PXE booting usually breaks if there are two that arent configured identically [12:49] (pointong both to the same tftp server etc) [12:49] ogra_: I also don't think it helps. I'm just out of ideas as the cabling is the same, the clients are the same, the server is the same. ubuntu self-configured worked, edubuntu does not [12:50] my guess is that since he has 192.168.0.x range IPs on eth0 and eth1, (at least from what I could put together), dhcpd might actually be listening on the wrong interface [12:50] ogra_: certainly yes [12:50] highvoltage: eth1 is 192.168.1.0/24, eth0 is 192.168.0.0/24 [12:50] it should tell to which interface it listens in the logs [12:51] can you ping the outside world from the server ? [12:51] highvoltage: the other way around sorry [12:51] ogra_: yes [12:52] then it looks like the wiring is fine [12:52] ogra_: the wiring is just the same as before, as is the network configuration [12:53] the difference just is that at first I configured ltsp myself in ubuntu and now I let edubuntu configure it [12:53] did you check the logs = dhcpd should actually tell you things when starting [12:53] during install [12:53] ogra_: syslog? [12:53] or messages, not sure [12:54] i still use lucid on my server machines ... that predates the log changes [12:54] (so i have a daemon.log which you wont) [12:56] seems (according to the logs) that dhcp listens on the right interface [12:56] I mean interfaces and dhcpd.conf is configured correctly [12:57] and you see it running with "ps ax|grep dhcp" ? [12:57] I don't know. I guess I'll reinstall ubuntu and do the configuration myself again. that worked absolutely perfect [12:58] 1375 ? Ss 0:00 /usr/sbin/dhcpd -f -q -4 -cf /etc/ltsp/dhcpd.conf [12:59] only difference between installs that I notice is an interface lxcbr0 [12:59] may this be an issue? not sure what it's for [13:00] for LXC (linux containers) [13:01] ok, need to research this to be honest. never heard about yet [13:01] hm [13:01] * rhorstkoetter wants edubuntu to work ;) [13:05] ok, I thank you for your time ogra_ and highvoltage. I'm still not sure what's going on here as I can't find errors in my configs, neither in the logs [13:05] at least you also can't find errors. that's good :) [13:30] hi. it actually seems to be a client related issue [13:31] my collegue switched network cards and I was unaware actually [13:31] I'm VERY sorry [13:31] heh [13:31] np [13:31] switching network cards to the worse actually [13:32] atheros > sis BOOM [13:32] you may look (still) at the ethernet card switching during install/installed system [13:32] should I file a bug report regarding that issue [13:33] highvoltage, ^^^ ? [13:33] i.e. eth0/eth1 switched [13:37] "09:29 < rhorstkoetter> my collegue switched network cards and I was unaware actually" <- that might have had something to do with it? [13:38] only if he also switched the server ones [13:38] ah I see [13:38] rhorstkoetter: if you file a bug, please include the installer logs from the server, [13:39] (you could find them in /var/log/installer/ iirc) [13:39] ok, I see [13:40] along with any other information you can provide, like that you chose to install LTSP, on which interface, what kind of network cards they are... [13:40] rhorstkoetter: I've tested the edubuntu installation on quite a few different real-life and virtual machines and haven't come across a bug like that yet, but nothing is impossible :) [13:40] me neither yet [13:41] now trying to get etherboot into the ethernet card bootrom [13:41] cross fingers for me [13:42] collegue ordered 30 of these and turns out sis900 pxe is pita [13:42] i.e. not working [13:42] lol [13:43] there is a german saying that fits almost perfectly [13:43] regarding the sis network cards [13:43] einem geschenkten gaul schaut man nicht ins maul [13:43] so you got them for free ? [13:44] yes. as a donation [13:44] lucky you them :P [13:45] I am [13:46] I actually plan a rather big ltsp/edubuntu rollout at a school and I'm currently testing the setup/gathering hardware at various places etc [13:46] ah that expression exists in english too: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/dont-look-a-gift-horse-in-the-mouth.html [13:47] highvoltage: lol, I see. I wasn't that sure if it's an idiom to the german language or not [13:48] * ogra_ didnt know there was an english equivalent [13:48] ogra_: you're german? [13:48] surprising, german spells rarely translate directly := [13:48] yep [13:48] ah [13:48] me too :p [13:49] * ogra_ assumed so :) [13:49] yeah, thinking about, I guess my nick is rather obvious [13:50] could be dutch or belgian too though [13:50] or danish ... just because there is an oe in it doesnt necessarily mean german ... [13:51] but quoting german *and* having an oe in your name makes it pretty obvious :) [13:51] true. at least I finally understood where "ogra" comes from [13:51] true [13:51] my first provider gave it to me for my first internet dialup account ever :) [13:51] it just stuck since :) [13:52] lol, mine has a rather similar history [13:52] my pc-pool account in university [13:53] :) [13:53] although, if I remember correctly it has been rhorstkoe rather than rhorstkoetter [13:53] anyways [13:54] if I had the same isp back then I'd most likely be known as "rhor_" today [13:55] just kidding [13:55] almost sounds like thor [13:56] another funny thing actually is that whenever I come across sis hardware (in whatever regard) I have problems [13:56] interesting insight [13:57] not too funny though as I just noticed that 3 new/donated laptops that just arrived here today also have the very same sis900 pxe bootrom and guess what? [13:57] they don't boot (yet) [13:58] * highvoltage tries to avoid things with 'sis' and 'via' written on them [13:58] (but yes, given horses, etc) [13:58] remember the ebox 1000 think client ? [13:58] *thin [13:58] yeah :) [13:58] yes, the given horses again ;) [13:58] that was an *all SIS* device [13:59] yeah SIS Vortex or something like that iirc [13:59] works fine as my firewall here though ... but i never managed to make something else out of it [13:59] I had a medion desktop once and bought an usb camera for it [14:00] I actually returned it twice to the store (silly me, that has been beginner days) until I found out the real cause of the problem [14:00] guess what? > sis chipset. bought an intel pci usb card and it worked awesome [14:01] yeah, despite not agreeing with the anti-competitive nature of the intel company, I do like their hardware :) [14:01] now the sis nightmare is about to return :) 30 pci network cards + 3 laptops with the very same bootrom = 33 potentially not working (yet) thin client [14:02] highvoltage: me too. nowadays I try to exclusively use thinkpads just for this very reason [14:03] but there is one positive thing to faulty hardware still [14:03] the learning curve [14:03] without things not working out of the box one wouldn't learn that much about getting them to work [14:04] so, thanks a lot gericom, sis, medion, acer etc etc [14:07] btw in regard of edubuntu, I found out a VERY simple solution to save ram on the server side by disabling X altogether. I mean an easy opportunity to set it up [14:08] you just need (thanks to upstart > 1.3) to setup /etc/init/lightdm.override with "manual" in there [14:09] most likely you know that but I'd say this would be something for docu at edubuntu [14:09] rhorstkoetter: indeed, we're in dire need of some "tips and tricks" documentation [14:09] if you then want to get X back just "sudo mv lightdm.override lightdm.override_ [14:09] how much ram does that save, btw? [14:09] 100mb [14:10] approx [14:10] I currently have around 50mb ram usage (htop) after a fresh boot [14:10] and that's pretty slick [14:11] I also disabled network-manager [14:11] so by disabling that one and X I got down to around 50 megs [14:12] next thing will be to experiment with zram [14:13] I feel that as a good approach to deal with memory peaks [14:13] assumed you have a fast processor [14:13] just install the zram-conf package in your chroot [14:13] in chroot? [14:13] even works nocely on slow processors [14:13] well, if you want zram on the client, do it in the chroot, yes [14:13] hmm, I haven't tried zram on an ltsp application server before [14:13] rhorstkoetter: does your server have so little ram that saving 50mb is worth the trouble? [14:13] I would have installed it at the server fs [14:14] alkisg: this is just a test server with 1gb ram [14:14] You supposedly need about 256 mb ram per client... [14:14] alkisg: and there is not much trouble involved but editing 3 text files [14:15] You could just pass "text" in grub [14:15] I think 50 megs worth of memory is 50 megs worth of memory even with a quad core and 8gb ram, isn't it? [14:15] I spent an afternoon to save 0.5 mb ram per thin client (the openvt memory) [14:15] ...but no, for the server, I wouldn't bother for 50mb [14:15] alkisg: true, that would be another opportunity for X [14:16] the override thing also is just one file edit though [14:16] I mean, for a real server with enough ram [14:16] I'd be more interested in getting rid of plymouth without uninstalling it [14:16] rhorstkoetter: I tend to agree with you that 50MB of RAM is always worth saving [14:16] seems to be controlled by upstart as well [14:16] you cant [14:17] plymouth is essential in ubuntu, but you can disable the actual graphical splash it shows, at least [14:17] ogra_: plymouth? [14:17] there are plenty bits that at least need libplymouth [14:17] ogra_: have you tried to disable the upstart job yet? [14:17] just curious [14:17] yes [14:17] and? what happens? [14:17] you can disable it, but you cant remove it [14:18] I wouldn't want to remove it, just disable it [14:18] to save ram [14:18] else your initrd mountall process would commit suicide, it needs libplymouth for communicastion [14:18] but plainly disabling it should be no matter or? I mean libplymouth still is on hdd that way [14:19] it wont save any ram though [14:19] ok, I see [14:19] plymouth kills itself right after boot (before switching to X) [14:19] (or before enabling ttys, depends how you look at it) [14:19] I guess I'm too ambitious to put as much .overrides in /etc/init as possible [14:20] lol, seems my new hobby [14:20] You can remove plymouth from the initramfs but as ogra says it doesn't matter after the initial boot, it's only worth it for 64mb ram clients which can't boot otherwise [14:20] alkisg: I see, thx for sharing experiences [14:20] rhorstkoetter: there's an RM_SYSTEM_SERVICES lts.conf variable [14:20] yeah, if you need a minimal initrd you should divert the initrd scripts and hooks actually [14:20] Please do send your comments about additional services needed to be enabled/disabled there [14:21] alkisg: lol, you know what? you seem to me like being lts.conf expert top notch [14:21] All the persons you're talking to now are ltsp devs ;) [14:21] given that he is one of the current core programmers of LTSP it would be scary if he didnt [14:23] that's correct and I appreciate your companion [14:24] btw, as I'm talking to ltsp devs. is someone of you using another linux distro for these kind of setups than ubuntu? [14:24] just curious [14:25] well, thats an odd thing to ask in the edubuntu channel ... what answers would you expect ? :) [14:25] * highvoltage occasionally does some testing for debian-edu, but doesn't use it in any day-to-day scenearios [14:26] if you want other distros, try #ltsp ... there you will also find gentoo, fedora and debian [14:26] ogra_: right, we're in edubuntu. anyways, I'd expect an honest one [14:26] and that ltsp fork that opensuse uses [14:27] I myself would never use anything else but ubuntu (always did, despite my opensuse cloak :p) [14:27] occasionally use archlinux as I like the tinkering [14:27] I don't get any more money or credit of any kind no matter what you use, so I like to think that my answers isn't particularly biased :) [14:27] s/isn't/aren't/g (aparently I can't do english today) [14:28] ogra_: I do not want to use something else myself. ubuntu works for me and always did [14:28] i didnt assume you wanted :) [14:28] but to get a more representative overview #ltsp is surely better [14:29] no need for it actually. just chitchatting a bit out of curiousity [14:29] ogra_: btw, are you feeling better? [14:30] highvoltage: most likely your english is better than or ogra_'s or mine. should be at least [14:30] stgraber: ubiquity seems to work fine for today's image, at least :) [14:31] alkisg: btw, as a follow-up to our discussions yesterday, my graphics problems/artefacts gone away once I switched back to gtk based DEs. they only occured in both KDE and razorqt [14:33] haven't tried the lts.conf variable though as I anyway decided to provide a GTK based DE to the pupils and as these worked (LXDE, Xfce, Gnome, Unity) there wasn't any need for tweaking anymore [14:33] rhorstkoetter: did you try X_SMART_COLOR_DEPTH? [14:33] ok [14:33] nope. it's in my cheat sheet though [14:35] in case I have another steak of madness to give KDE a try (happens once a year approximately and lasts an hour usually) :p [14:35] highvoltage, yeah, since a wekk already [14:35] ogra_: great [14:35] s/steak/streak [14:37] as I'm dealing with ltsp devs here. reading (in parallel) about etherboot, it seems that it's now called gpxe and then ipxe [14:37] is this correct [14:37] ? [14:41] rhorstkoetter: yep [14:41] stgraber: so, I guess since stellarium is highly unlikely to run well on arm, we should probably just drop it for kstars? [14:46] highvoltage: I guess so, I dropped it yesterday anyway [14:46] stgraber: ah, cool [14:47] highvoltage: ok, thx. I guess I need to read the ipxe docu now as the sis900 isn't booting neither from internal bootrom nor from ipxe live cd (i.e. just let it boot without any config) [14:47] hope I get this settled as atheros bootrom works just fine [14:47] just the sis900 seems to be a major pita [14:48] stgraber: I see the gnote task is marked as complete, does that mean that tomboy notes are migrated? [14:48] no idea, but we didn't ship tomboy in 12.04 so I don't really care :) [14:48] I just added gnote to the seed [14:48] stgraber: yeah, I was thinking something along the same lines === jbicha is now known as Guest70781 [14:55] gnote doesn't seem to add a menu in gnome fallback session [14:56] (as in, a panel menu or indicator or whatever you call it these days) [14:56] * highvoltage checks under unity [14:57] * ogra_ calls it "thing" [14:58] thats never wrong :) [14:58] hehe [14:59] hmm, only way to seem to access it is by pressing alt+f12. perhaps Guest70781 will have some more insight on what we could do there [15:03] the gnote applet works in gnome-fallback. not sure how to add it in unity though [15:03] it crashes though :-/ === Guest70781 is now known as jbicha_ [15:14] ooh, gimp 2.8 has landed in quantal [15:32] stgraber: is xdiagnose something we should have in the menus? (it's under accessories currently) [15:33] hi again [15:34] have you ever dealed with the sis900 nic before. I think I remember highvoltage said something earlier [15:35] problem is that this card is driving me crazy and I hope you have some ideas still. plugging in the very same cable to my netbook (atheros pxe) works perfect [15:35] highvoltage: I see it in Ubuntu too, so if it shouldn't be there, it should be changed in the package itself, not in Edubuntu [15:35] sis900 doesn't even receive an ip address via dhcp [15:36] tried with builtin bootrom and now with ipxe boot disc with the very same result [15:36] no dhcp [15:36] have you ever encountered some issue like that .. at best with sis900 nic? google isn't that helpful either [15:37] unfortunately [15:38] the cabling and dhcp setup is perfectly correct. I plug the cable out of sis900 nic and into the netbook and it boots right away [15:38] plugging it back to sis nightmare and neither builtin bootrom nor ipxe is able to get dhcp [15:39] I even tried to configure static ip via ipxe and I cannot even ping from dhcp server/edubuntu [15:40] while ipxe properly recognizes sis900 it doesn't seem to work at all and I'm curious if some of you came across that very issue already sometimes in the past [15:51] highvoltage: saw you -artwork upload, are you overriding both /ubuntu and /gnome-classic now or just /gnome-classic (the later would be wrong I think) [16:11] stgraber: both [16:11] good [16:11] (since I guess we don't want to see them un unity either) [16:11] right [16:12] stgraber: I told the guys in #kubuntu-dev about it too... [16:12] (I'll probably file a bug for it because they were like "oh yeah, that", but didn't particularly seem to care about fixing it atm) [16:14] highvoltage: or just change it and propose the branch for merging, that way a patch pilot will merge it and the kde folks will just have to deal with it ;) [16:41] stgraber: hmm, every time we make an artwork change we have to download the whole wallpapers binary package too [16:41] stgraber: is there a way to have its version seperate? what was the rationale again for moving it to the edubuntu-artwork meta-package? [16:42] source package, even [16:52] stgraber: I see there's a comment file for the northern lights wallpaper. where is it displayed in the UI? It seems kind of an awesome way to teach people things via wallpapers [16:55] highvoltage: no idea :) [16:56] highvoltage: I can't remember the reason to merge -wallpapers in -artwork, could have been related to the gconf/dconf schema and the rest of the integration being in that source [17:47] mgariepy: I took a stab at a menueditor icon [17:47] mgariepy: any ideas or objections? http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/quantal/edubuntu/icons/menueditor.svg [17:48] (still making some small tweaks for alignment, etc) [17:51] highvoltage, cool :) [17:51] it looks very nice :) [17:52] I guess I need some help still with for me very curious network issues [17:52] do you people have some spare time to help again please? [17:52] (or a png: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jonathan/files/quantal/edubuntu/icons/menueditor2.png) [17:52] I try to explain ... [17:53] the ltsp server has two interfaces (sis900 and rtl8139) sis900 to the outside, rtl8139 to the inside [17:54] the only client that's able to boot is an n450 netbook with atheros ethernet (not sure about the exact chipset) [17:54] two other client (sis900 and a thinkpad r32) won't boot [17:55] I tried for hours reading about lots of pxe issues booting from sis900 [17:55] then I tried the thinkpad just to see that it won't boot either [17:55] then ... [17:55] have you tried booting from a gpxe iso? [17:56] yes. [17:56] etherboot, gpxe, ipxe [17:56] all won't boot [17:56] what do they say? [17:56] then I got suspicious against the server (rtl8139) [17:56] dhcp timeout [17:56] mgariepy: should I change it in the package too? I think it looks good in the menus (tested it in a VM) [17:56] highvoltage: now it comes ;) [17:57] thinkpad said no cable connected when booting [17:57] and trust me the cable was on there [17:57] in fact the very same successfully booting the netbook 10 times in a row [17:58] I got to the conclusion that it's neither the sis900 client nor the thinkpad failing but the rtl8139 on the server side [17:58] I thus switched the interfaces: sis900 to the inside this time, rtl8139 to the outside [17:59] please don't be confused … server also has ONE sis900 [17:59] and guess what? netbook boots, sis900 client does not, neither does the thinkpad - on the very same cable with the very same error [18:00] I almost got to the conclusion to be too silly to plug in ethernet but I triple checked and the cable definately works on netbook [18:01] my gosh … this doesn't seem to come to an end [18:01] so, long story short (sorry but it gets more complex by the hour) [18:02] my current conclusion is that the netbook somehow "tells" the server (sis900 + rtl8139) that it is actually connected [18:02] I know this sounds crazy but I have no other explanation why the netbook boots in all configurations while the thinkpad and the sis900 client refuse to boot [18:03] what do you think? any recommendations? [18:03] I mean my very own network knowledge came (almost) to an end [18:03] thanks in advance [18:59] anyone around for an edubuntu meeting? [19:00] * highvoltage heads over to #ubuntu-meeting [19:01] kinda [19:01] good enough :) [19:18] * highvoltage just gave a quick summary anyway [20:30] oash. we still have geogebra on the slideshow [21:11] so, as a school project we tried to start a charity (www.connectingourfuture.org) we're going to put edubuntu on some old systems to donate to local daycares [21:11] i'd like to use xfce or lxde, somethign lightweight...do you think it'd be easier to use xubuntu + edubuntu repos or edubuntu and install xfce? [21:14] d1zzYLuLz: how old systems? How much RAM? [21:15] If they're very old, you might want to consider LTSP, i.e. use them as thin clients instead [21:16] they're pretty old..im goin to max out there ram [21:16] LTSP though, it's not much [21:16] it's like 2 computers here, 3-4 there... [21:16] Ah, ok. So you think about 512 ram? [21:16] otherwise, the whole project was a pretty bad flop [21:17] yeah maybe a little more than that..def no more than 2GB in the best one [21:17] With 1-2 Gb you could just install edubuntu, no need for lxde/xfce [21:17] but im guessing between 512-1gb [21:17] For that ^ yeah something lighter would probably be better [21:17] and use the gnome fallback? [21:17] Yeah, it's easier for older PCs [21:18] For 512 I'd use LXDE, for 1 Gb, gnome-fallback [21:18] So if you're going to have 512 mb clients, maybe go with lxde for all of them... [21:18] okay...so do you think lubuntu w/ edubuntu repos, or edubuntu and install lxde [21:19] For 512, the first [21:19] E.g. some might only want gtk apps to avoid the kde libs [21:19] That would save them lots of ram [21:20] (btw there are no "edubuntu repos", it's just main/universe etc) [21:20] oh, okay..i thought their were special edubuntu repos.. [21:20] so i'll have to find a list of good games [21:31] Hello, I have a question about Dell FX170 thin clients and LTSP [21:31] Is this the right place to ask? === highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage === jbicha_ is now known as jbicha