=== TRON is now known as TypoNAM
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mythoshui... i got my pi today =)11:07
mythosand pandaboard es is on its way =)11:07
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rbasakogra_: ping16:25
rbasakogra_: dannf found an issue with Debian's flash-kernel that breaks Ubuntu completely, AIUI. Do you have time to discuss it now?16:26
rbasak(as in today - I'll be about 20 mintues)16:26
ogra_rbasak, yeah, go ahead (will be my last action today too)16:26
rbasakdannf: over to you?16:27
ogra_i'm aware that f-k will likely need adjustments16:27
ogra_though we want to keep them as msall as possible16:27
dannfogra_: just the linux-base package / linux-version bit16:27
rbasakAre you planning on uploading anyway even if we know it won't work?16:27
ogra_uploading ?16:27
rbasakOr do we want to get a fix in first?16:27
ogra_it was synced this morning (EU time)16:27
rbasakSo we have a regression and it currently won't work at all for any board?16:28
ogra_i will jump on it tomorrow (unless someone fancies to produce a patch tonight) and beat it in shape16:28
rbasakI'm concerned about your approach here. Aren't we supposed to be testing first to prevent regressions in the development release?16:29
ogra_the plan is to have at least omap and omap4 images ready for A1 so that means i have to touch it :)16:29
ogra_rbasak, that would have taken weeks, we're pre A1 which is exactly the time to introduce such changed and fix issues before the first milestone16:30
* dannf looks at lp:ubuntu/flash-kernel - and yeah, it depends on the linux-version tool from debian's linux-base package16:30
ogra_also it was discussed three times at three UDSes to do it that way16:30
rbasakogra_: regressions in d-i for ARM blocks our work.16:30
ogra_thats why i warned you ahead of the change16:31
dannfluckily, that means it shouldn't be installable either (luckily for any bleeding edge users)16:31
rbasakBy a day, which didn't really give us any time to work around the issue or prepare a fix in advance16:31
ogra_images arent properly buildint anyway yet16:31
ogra_(due to buildd issues that were only fixed today too)16:32
ogra_in any case this surely wont happen again, but we had to make a hard cut for f-k16:32
ogra_since it was 80% hacks that simply werent portable to the new world order16:33
ogra_(we forked about 4 years ago and it wasnt updated since, since the hacks would have been broken heavily)16:33
dannfogra_: one option is probably to discuss pulling in the linux-base package as well16:34
dannfdebian has split that out of the linux-2.6 package16:34
ogra_right, I'll discuss that with the rest of foundations16:34
dannfbut that probably needs to be coordinated w/ the kernel team give the perf wrapper it adds (or disable that wrapper)16:34
ogra_we have linux-tools that ships perf iirc16:35
dannfogra_: i don't think anyone disagrees that rebasing on debian is the right approach; the "how" is biting us, but the "why" is pretty obvious16:35
dannfyeah, debian uses linux-base to chhoose the perf that's compatible w/ the current kernel abi16:35
dannfit doesn't build a perf, just directs to it16:36
ogra_linux-base should be installable according to the kernel team16:36
dannfah - maybe i misesd that; lemme try16:37
ogra_as i said, i'll fix the issues tomorrow by A1 f-k should work fine16:37
ogra_(and seriously depending on image buolds even before the first milestone was rolled should be reconsidered in your policy)16:37
rbasakThe trouble is that we can't work using precise, since that's fixed now16:38
rbasakeg. highbank needs to go in quantal first before SRU16:38
rbasakSo we have to work on quantal16:38
ogra_that wont work for f-k16:38
rbasakYeah f-k will need an old-style patch for precise16:39
dannfi see it on packages.ubuntu.com, but apt doesn't see it on my armhf/quantal bxo.. /me digs16:39
ogra_since they are completely different in both releases16:39
ogra_dannf, make sure to use armhf ;)16:39
rbasakI'm talking about process though - the general principle that we work on the dev release, and that we need netinst to work on the dev release.16:39
ogra_the kernel team doesnt build for el anymore16:39
ogra_rbasak, but it is pre-A116:40
ogra_nobody expects images or the installer to work before that ... this is the only time where such changes can be made16:40
rbasakSo essentially you're saying that the principle that the development release remains usable does not apply pre-A1?16:40
dannfogra_: my only armel box is a armv5 running debian, so that's not a problem :)16:40
ogra_rbasak, installable16:40
rbasakOK, I think I understand your POV now, thanks.16:41
ogra_not usable ... using precise and upgrading should always work16:41
dannfmystery solved, linux-base is in universe16:41
ogra_installing should work after the first milestone (for the images that made it at least)16:41
ogra_dannf, ah, i'll care for the MIr and promotion then16:41
dannfogra_: ack16:41
ogra_dannf, that should keep you safe for d-i then though16:41
ogra_i hope to have the worst bits solved before the weekend, the rest will happen during milestone freeze16:42
ogra_dannf, rbasak, one other thing with the new f-k ... it wont allow booting without initrd by design, is that an issue for you guys (i assume not, else we can change that)16:52
dannfogra_: i don't *think* its a problem16:53
ogra_(essentially i would like to keep the ubuntu changes close to zero if possible though)16:53
dannfogra_: +116:53
* dannf much prefers hacking on the redesigned version16:53
rbasakWe're using an initrd everywhere so I think it's fine16:54
rbasakBut isn't there a discussion on allowing initrd-less systems in ubuntu at some point? I never understood the motivation for this.16:54
ogra_yeah, i though so16:54
ogra_yes, i'm the driver behind that16:55
rbasakSo how is that going to work with a flash-kernel that requires an initrd?:)16:55
ogra_and i want to make f-k work without initrd in the future, its just not top on my TODO (i would have moved it if you said its needed)16:55
rbasakI see, thanks16:55
ogra_the current initrdless ubuntu stuff is blocked on the kernel team anyway16:56
rbasakSo while you're here, what's the motivation/need for initrdless ubuntu anyway? Is this documented anywhere?16:56
ogra_as long as the kernel doesnt learn about UUIDs its moot to move on16:56
ogra_rbasak, 10 second boot vs 30 sec on the panda (and likely other u-boot based arches)16:56
dannffaster boot maybe?16:56
rbasakI see16:57
rbasakWouldn't UUID knowledge end up in the early-userspace code anyway?16:57
rbasakThe kernel doesn't truly support initrd-less any more anyway - just an embedded miniature initramfs now, right?16:57
ogra_well, it would have to be in the kernel itself for us16:57
ogra_up to precise initrdless booting still worked fine here16:57
ogra_i havent tried anything newer than 3.2 yet16:58
ogra_and i bet many embedded people would freak out if linus completely disabled initrdless16:58
rbasakOK but it's not been truly initrdless for a while. There's a shim. Knowledge of UUID could be inserted into that shim.16:58
ogra_right, that was one of the plans but needs to be done by the kernel team16:59
rbasakI see16:59
ogra_since that mini initrd lives inside the kernel binary16:59
rbasakI'm with you now - thanks16:59
ogra_we'll see if it goes anywhere in the future16:59
ogra_( i start doubting it ... though initrd less booting is on the request list for 5 years or more)17:00
ogra_(but so is booting in less than 10sec)17:00
orated_Hello! Is there any documentation/wiki where initrd.img  MLO  u-boot.img  uEnv.txt  uImage  uInitrd  zImage files are individually explained?19:48
prpplagueorated_: same question was just asked on #beagle and i know you are over there19:51
orated_Oh, that is answered now! I remember same was questioned and I had exactly the same question yesterday  :)19:52
orated_Thanks, I'll catch up in that channel19:53
dannfogra_, rbasak : https://code.launchpad.net/~dannf/flash-kernel/armadaxp/+merge/10806621:48
dannfogra_: rbasak : whups, should be : https://code.launchpad.net/~dannf/flash-kernel/armadaxp/+merge/10807022:03
janimolilstevie, thanks. Do you know a way to root a tf101g with ICS 4.0.3 on it? I found confusing instructions in the forum which do not seem to work (red-belly android on his back). Should the updater take any image called E101_SUPDATE?22:53
lilsteviethat is old22:54
lilstevielike really old22:54
lilsteviethere is a method that symlinks /data/tmp to /dev/block/mmcblk0p4 that should work22:55
lilsteviemmcblk0p4 being the staging partition22:55

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