[00:01] <robert_ancell> did you know we distribute libaa (ascii art library) on the CD?  It's being pulled in by the gstreamer plugins
[00:03] <RAOF> That's an important part of a modern distro.
[00:08] <TheMuso> heh but something like that which is useless to most people should probably be removed somehow, every bit of iamge space is sacred.
[00:08] <TheMuso> And can be better used by something else.
[00:09] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, exactly, and unknown code means unknown problems
[00:10] <mdeslaur> but...how will I be able to watch movies on my vt100 terminal? :)
[00:10] <TheMuso> yep
[00:11] <chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, you watch porn movies on your vt100?
[00:12] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[00:13] <mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: sssssh! :)
[00:13] <robert_ancell> mdeslaur, phoar, check out that semicolon!
[00:14] <mdeslaur> hehe
[02:22] <thumper> I remember seeing some burn-down charts of blueprint work items somewhere
[02:22] <thumper> anyone have a link?
[02:23] <stgraber> http://status.ubuntu.com
[02:23] <bryceh> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/
[02:23] <thumper> thanks guys
[02:47] <ritz> jasoncwarner_,  ping
[02:56] <RAOF> Well, that was a fun couple of minutes. Turns out this system won't boot properly with something plugged into the USB slot.
[04:34] <pitti> Good morning
[05:11] <pitti> RAOF: is that quantal?
[05:12] <pitti> RAOF: mine just doesn't boot properly sometimes (gets stuck in plymouth) independent of plugged in devices
[05:22] <TheMuso> Oh wow, so Debian decided to not use clutter for totem 3.4. Interesting.
[05:29] <TheMuso> hrm ok its not applied atm though./
[05:29] <Sarvatt> pitti: nothing in X has changed in quantal, so thats especially screwed up if its happening :)
[05:30] <Sarvatt> outside of autosyncs of drivers you arent using
[05:30] <pitti> yeah, could be anything really
[05:30] <pitti> the VTs are very unhelpful to see what's going on :/
[05:31] <Sarvatt> plymouth actually got updated in 12.10 for the first time since 10.04 so probably there
[05:57]  * rickspencer3 drums fingers
[06:07] <didrocks> good morning
[06:08] <pitti> hey rickspencer3, bonjour didrocks
[06:08] <rickspencer3> good morning didrocks and pitt
[06:08] <rickspencer3> pitti, even
[06:08] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti
[06:08] <didrocks> bonjour rickspencer3
[06:08] <rickspencer3> bonjour mes amis
[06:23] <RAOF> pitti: Yeah, it's quantal. I think it must be the kernel, because it CPU soft-lockups in that case.
[07:07] <pitti> hey mvo, guten Morgen
[07:09] <mvo> hey pitti, good morning
[07:09] <pitti> mvo: are you planning to upload the py3'ified aptdaemon soon, or is that blocked by something/
[07:09] <pitti> ?
[07:11] <mvo> pitti: last time I checked there was a testcase failure, but I haven't digged into it
[07:11] <yaboo> hi all got a new ivy bridge laptop, but when I go to install ubuntu 12.04 LTS it installs but fails to find the boot partition to boot from
[07:12] <yaboo> anything specific I need to do
[07:19] <mvo> pitti: I can look into aptdaemon this week, but don't be blocked on me, i.e. feel free to upload if you want
[07:19] <pitti> mvo: I mean for the ports of apturl etc.
[07:20] <mvo> yes, I would love to have it, updat-emanager needs it too (the py3 port)
[07:34] <mitya57> didrocks: hi again
[07:34] <mitya57> you've put the manpage into debian/patches/ccsm.1
[07:34] <mitya57> but the proper location should be debian/ccsm.1
[07:35] <mitya57> and *this* location in mentioned in compizconfig-settings-manager.manpages
[07:36] <didrocks> mitya57: oupsss, it's probably a bad bzr mv I guess as I install from debian/ccsm.1 :) Thanks for the noice!
[07:36] <didrocks> notice*
[07:36] <didrocks> last step, once I finish piloting, will be to update debian/copyright
[07:43] <seb128> hey
[07:44] <micahg> hi seb128, was off sick yesterday, hopefully will be back today
[07:44] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[07:44] <seb128> pitti, hey
[07:44] <pitti> hey micahg -- oh, get well soon then!
[07:44] <micahg> thanks pitti
[07:44] <seb128> pitti, wie gehts?
[07:45] <pitti> seb128: gut, danke! und selbst?
[07:45] <seb128> micahg, ok, no worry, let me know if you are still off today and I will ping jdstrand to see if anyone else in security can cover for you and do that testing round
[07:46] <seb128> pitti, ich bin gut, danke ;-)
[07:46]  * pitti chuckles
[07:46] <micahg> seb128: I think I'll be well enough to at least do the testing (won't promise much else though :))
[07:46] <pitti> seb128: (that means something rather different than "I feel well", FYI)
[07:46] <seb128> micahg, ok, get better!
[07:47] <micahg> seb128: thanks
[07:47] <seb128> pitti, second try
[07:47] <seb128> pitti, mir geht us gut danke!
[07:48] <seb128> us->es
[07:48]  * pitti hugs seb128, impeccable!
[07:48]  * seb128 hugs pitti back
[07:49] <seb128> didrocks, lut
[07:49] <didrocks> salut seb128, ça va? ;)
[07:49] <seb128> (testing if didrocks is lost if new productivity world with his new laptop or if he got IRC notifications back)
[07:49] <seb128> didrocks, ca va ;-) et toi ?
[07:49] <didrocks> seb128: ça va bien, j'ai retrouvé mes notifs weechat \o/
[07:49] <seb128> hehe
[07:49] <pitti> didrocks: oh, you got your new toy?
[07:50] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, received last week. I installed it mostly during the bank holiday
[07:50] <didrocks> finished a little bit to copy some bits yesterday (had to restart from a clean home as last one is dated since 2002) ;)
[07:50] <pitti> didrocks: Ne vous l'aimez?
[07:51] <didrocks> pitti: I love it! I'm in the 21th century now ;)
[07:51] <didrocks> changed the HD by a ssd
[07:51] <didrocks> used oneconf to reinstall the apps I wanted, everything is fine!
[08:01] <pitti> didrocks: how long does your battery last now?
[08:02] <didrocks> pitti: didn't test it fully yet, but more than 10 minutes for sure :)
[08:02] <didrocks> I'll try on a quiet day, without too much compiling first
[08:02] <didrocks> I saw in the bios that all acceleration are deactivated when on battery
[08:03] <pitti> didrocks: powertop's estimation is usually quite well (same like the power applet)
[08:03] <pitti> s/applet/indicator/, of course
[08:04] <glatzor> hello pitti seb128  and mvo
[08:04]  * pitti waves Servus to glatzor
[08:05]  * glatzor hugs the zugroasten pitti
[08:05] <pitti> Jo mei!
[08:06] <glatzor> mvo, I would like to move softwareproperties.AptAuth to apt.auth to avoid a circular dependency between aptdaemon and software-properties
[08:06] <pitti> glatzor: they disqualified me anyway -- Lederhosen just look hilarious on me
[08:06] <didrocks> pitti: I'm fully charged, idled computer (but still getting the tons emails from imap), chromium, weechat, gedit and 2 terminals: 6h46 says the applet
[08:06] <seb128> hey glatzor
[08:07] <pitti> didrocks: that's not bad already :) now you can try and tinker with the powertop tweaks, disable radios, etc.
[08:07] <didrocks> pitti: I'll probably tonight :)
[08:07] <pitti> seb128: I guess no news about the guadec schedule? I think I'll just ask for flights now
[08:08] <seb128> pitti, no, but if you are up for some hacking after the conf days just flight back on aug 1 or 2
[08:08] <seb128> pitti, I still I will go back on the 1st
[08:09] <seb128> pitti, by experience there are not so many people left on the last hack day
[08:09] <pitti> seb128: so I'll probably fly back on Aug 1 afternoon
[08:10] <seb128> same here
[08:10] <didrocks> will probably do the same
[08:20] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:20] <mvo> hey glatzor
[08:21] <seb128> chrisccoulson, mvo: hey, how are you?
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128,, i'm good thanks. how are you?
[08:21] <mvo> seb128: good, thanks
[08:21] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm good ;-)
[08:21] <mvo> glatzor: sure, that sounds good, lets move it further down the stack
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> oh, we have our roof fixed! IT's FINALLY FIXED!!!!! :-)
[08:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you might want to talk to Trevinho about the startupwmclass changes
[08:22] <chrisccoulson> seb128, how come?
[08:22] <chrisccoulson> oh, about my last comment?
[08:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes
[08:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I think he said he behaviour changed slightly but was buggy before
[08:22] <seb128> chrisccoulson, so maybe firefox was relying on a bug to work?
[08:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128, that's ok. i can make sure it's fixed in the final beta
[08:23] <seb128> ok, great
[08:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, @roof: but, it's summer, you don't need one! :p
[08:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, firefox changed the WM_CLASS a while ago and i didn't update the desktop file, because it continued to work ;)
[08:25] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson! Congrats for your roof ;)
[08:25] <chrisccoulson> heh, thanks
[08:25] <chrisccoulson> i hope it doesn't leak now
[08:26] <chrisccoulson> what we need is a good thunderstorm to test it out
[08:26] <didrocks> well, where you live, you don't have to wait for long ;)
[08:26]  * didrocks runs
[08:26] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, unfortunately, it normally just rains. i want an actual thunderstorm instead though, as they're fun :)
[08:27] <chrisccoulson> what we need is a little mini-sprint in orlando in mid june. then i'd get to see lots of thunderstorms!
[09:09] <mpt> seb128, threadscope is "a graphical thread profiler for Haskell programs", so it's right for it to show up in Haskell. <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Genre> shows that non-application packages are supposed to show by default too. This is bug 904451.
[09:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 904451 in software-center "Technical items should appear by default in "development tools"" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/904451
[09:11] <seb128> mpt, ok, yeah the fact that it shows was not an issue, having a category for only 1 item is what seemed weird
[09:11] <seb128> desrt, ^
[09:11] <seb128> mpt, thanks
[09:14] <pitti> tkamppeter: I want to port foomatic-db-compressed-ppds to python 3; where can I send the patch for this for upstream?
[09:14] <pitti> tkamppeter: is it ok to mail to you?
[09:16] <tkamppeter> pitti, yes, simply mail it to me.
[09:17] <pitti> tkamppeter: actually, I think /usr/lib/cups/driver/foomatic-db-compressed-ppds gets autogenerated, so I guess the fix is in pyppd
[09:19] <tkamppeter> pitti, yes. You can forward it to the upstream of the pyppd package.
[09:19] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, seems it's Odyx' package; I'll mail it to Debian then
[09:20] <tkamppeter> pitti, and also the real upstream (the pyppd author).
[09:22] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, actually it's on http://gitorious.org/vitorbaptista/pyppd/
[09:22] <pitti> I do a fork there and send a pull req
[09:24] <tkamppeter> pitti, OK, thanks.
[09:32] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, i think that for every cycle in the future, I should have a default WI - "deal with fallout from changing toolchain"  ;)
[09:32] <pitti> it just could never be set to "done"
[09:32] <pitti> it's a mission, not a WI :)
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> heh
[09:35] <seb128> chrisccoulson, still can't play angry birds? ;-)
[09:36] <dpm> hi pitti, good morning. I meant to ask you a while ago, when you've got a minute, do you think you could upload the signed off language packs from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/LanguagePackUpdatesQA#Test_results_Ubuntu_12.04_.22Precise_Pangolin.22 - thanks!
[09:40] <pitti> dpm: sure
[09:40] <dpm> cool, thanks :)
[09:55] <pitti> dpm: general and gnome packages are in; -kde pacakge copies are requested, but LP seems to take some time to think about them..
[09:56] <dpm> pitti, ok, thanks!
[10:03] <tkamppeter> pitti, I know that you are not in the SRU team any more, but can you approve my ptouch-driver and system-config-printer SRUs and move cups-filters to -updates, as the real SRU team is a week behind (is Precise so broken?).
[10:03] <pitti> ask in #u-release perhaps?
[10:04] <pitti> if I keep doing SRUs, things will never change :)
[10:04] <seb128> pitti, we miss you there as well already ;-)
[10:05] <seb128> pitti, I can tell, I've been trying hard to get mine through without pinging you, it's working less well so far but let's see if they managed to get organized ;-)
[10:07] <pitti> dpm: -kde now released, too
[10:09] <Laney> it looks like the SRU team could do with more european members
[10:09] <chrisccoulson> seb128, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18234930 ;)
[10:11] <tkamppeter> pitti, Laney, who are the SRU team members? Are they all concentrated in AU?
[10:11] <Laney> tkamppeter: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sru/+members
[10:11] <dpm> pitti, ack thanks
[10:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I should move there ;-)
[10:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah :)
[10:23] <chrisccoulson> it seems i'm not going to escape speaking French soon ;)
[10:51] <Trevinho> hi seb128.... Yesterday I've noticed that the latest fixes for unity duplicated icons / no icons fixes have also fixed this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/925421 ;)
[10:51] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 925421 in unity "sometimes icons get dropped from the launcher when they should not" [High,Fix committed]
[11:58] <seb128> Trevinho, is that the "pin,unpin applications lead to broken icon"?
[11:58] <Trevinho> seb128: yep
[11:58] <seb128> Trevinho, oh, that's great, so no need to fix dbus-glib after all? ;-)
[11:58] <seb128> Trevinho, bug #978401 is the same bug right?
[11:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 978401 in unity-distro-priority "Some applications stop being listed after being pinned,unpinned in the Launcher" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/978401
[11:59] <Trevinho> seb128: no, that's another issue.... that was the unpinning thing while running an app
[12:01] <seb128> hum, xchat-gnome segfaulted
[12:02] <seb128> Trevinho, ok
[12:04] <ritz> seb128, heya, lp bz ?
[12:04] <seb128> ritz, lp bz what?
[12:04] <ritz> segv
[12:05] <ritz> seb128, xg should be gtk3 only by this weekend, with hopefully little regression
[12:05] <seb128> oh ok
[12:05] <seb128> great
[12:09] <mitya57> xchat-gnome it's the most crashing app for me, and has at least 4 different kinds of crashes :)
[12:10] <mitya57> bug 956118 and bug 1005220 seem to occur only for me :(
[12:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 956118 in xchat-gnome "xchat-gnome assert failure: *** glibc detected *** xchat-gnome: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x09788a08 ***" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/956118
[12:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1005220 in xchat-gnome "xchat-gnome crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_xtext_render_str()" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1005220
[12:35] <desrt> seb128: that and the fact that some really obvious things are missing from said category
[12:35] <Sweetshark_nhome> .
[12:38] <Sweetshark_nhome> Hi all, Im not home, but at LO hamburg homehacking.
[12:40] <chrisccoulson> pmsl @ http://mashable.com/2012/05/30/amercia/
[12:44] <Sweetshark_nhome> I dont have my email stuff copied over to my new SSD, so if you have an urgent request, please ping me here on freenode #kthx
[13:08] <pitti> cyphermox: hey, how are you?
[13:09] <pitti> cyphermox: FYI, the ubuntu-drivers-common API is now by and large working; please let me know if you are missing something when implementing the UI
[13:09] <pitti> cyphermox: i. e. it could be that we should put some extra logic about the nvidia driver variants and their description into u-drivers-common instead of into software-properties
[13:57] <didrocks> phew, just finished with recreating a new debian/copyright compiz file :)
[13:57] <didrocks> that was the last part of this insane update (insane, but for good tomorrow)
[14:16] <cyphermox> pitti: thanks
[14:16] <cyphermox> I haven't started, currently doing +1.
[14:48] <cyphermox> anyone remember seeing jbicha mention he needed sponsoring for indicator-datetime?
[14:48]  * cyphermox is about to sponsor it from the desktop branches
[14:50] <seb128> cyphermox, I guess he forgot to upload
[14:50] <cyphermox> seb128: I checked and I don't think he can
[14:50] <cyphermox> though that's something else that ought to be fixed
[14:51] <seb128> right, upload away then ;-)
[14:58] <didrocks> ok, new compiz is working fine, apart that it can't load one plugin… unity :p
[14:59] <cyphermox> wee ;)
[14:59] <ogra_> didrocks, awesome, keep it that way and arm wont be behind anymore
[14:59] <didrocks> ogra_: heh ;)
[15:04] <didrocks> seems to be an unnoticed ABI break
[15:04] <didrocks> a
[15:08] <didrocks> kenvandine: seb128: the overlay scrollbars are removed during precise -> quantal upgrade, (but I see no new package/ABI installed), wanted?
[15:08] <kenvandine> humm
[15:09] <Guest70781> didrocks: the new ones should be overlay-scrollbar-gtk3 and -gtk2
[15:09] <jbicha_> ah, that's better
[15:09] <seb128> kenvandine, didrocks: it stopped being a lib
[15:09] <didrocks> ah, there is just overlay-scrollbar :)
[15:10] <seb128> didrocks, right
[15:10] <kenvandine> much simpler now :)
[15:10] <didrocks> ok, good, thanks jbicha_/Guest :p seb128 ;)
[15:10] <seb128> yw
[15:13] <didrocks> seb128: now that's a gtk module, how can you activate/deactivate it?
[15:13] <kenvandine> gsettings
[15:14] <seb128> didrocks, there is a GTK_... variable for those or gsettings
[15:15] <didrocks> got it from the diff
[15:16] <highvoltage> hi! in edubuntu we ship some .desktop files as overrides in /usr/share/ubuntu/applications
[15:16] <highvoltage> but it doesn't seem to be applied anymore, is there a new way of doing that?
[15:20] <didrocks> highvoltage: hey, where do you ship them?
[15:21] <highvoltage> didrocks: from the edubuntu-artwork package
[15:22] <didrocks> highvoltage: echo $XDG_DATA_DIRS
[15:22] <didrocks> it does contain /usr/share/ubuntu, isn't it?
[15:23] <highvoltage> didrocks: ah, somehow it doesn't
[15:24] <highvoltage> it has "/usr/share/gnome-classic:/usr/share/gnome:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/"
[15:24] <didrocks> highvoltage: it's because you are using gnome-classic and not the "ubuntu" session
[15:24] <didrocks> /etc/X11/Xsession.d/60x11-common_xdg_path set the override depending on which session we choose
[15:25] <highvoltage> ok, so we should be shipping those files in /usr/share/gnome-classic?
[15:25] <didrocks> highvoltage: if you want to use that session, yep :)
[15:25] <didrocks> well /usr/share/gnome-classic/applications
[15:25] <highvoltage> yep, we support it
[15:25] <highvoltage> didrocks: ok thanks a lot
[15:26] <didrocks> highvoltage: yw ;)
[15:26] <didrocks> desrt: seb128: see, people are using the "on session type" override ;) ^
[15:26] <highvoltage> :)
[16:59] <pitti> good nighth everyone!
[17:02] <didrocks> good night pitti!
[17:28] <chrisccoulson> heh, THUNDER!!!!!
[17:29] <cyphermox> thunder?
[17:30] <mlankhorst> Flash?
[17:30] <davmor2> chrisccoulson: I see what you did there but you missed the bird bit off the end ;)
[17:30] <mdeslaur> lol
[17:55] <Sweetshark_nhome> seb128: still around?
[18:00] <seb128> Sweetshark_nhome, yes
[18:00] <seb128> Sweetshark_nhome, but not for long, going for dinner in 5 minutes
[18:01] <Sweetshark_nhome> seb128: anyway, Im uploading 3.5.4-0ubuntu1 for precise-proposed to chinstrap. Reviewers welcome. (Except for the tarballs, its the same as the libreoffice ppa upload of 3.5.4~rc2 -- so shouldnt have any exciting breakages ;) )
[18:02] <seb128> Sweetshark_nhome, ok, I will have a look, but likely tomorrow morning
[18:02] <seb128> Sweetshark_nhome, note that you should got it in quantal before SRUing and that you better have a bug with the details from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates filed
[18:03] <seb128> Sweetshark_nhome, i.e rational, regression potential, etc ... the (new) SRU team started requiring those recently
[18:03] <seb128> i.e they will not review things in the queue which don't have a bug with those infos
[18:04] <Sweetshark_nhome> seb128: not urgent, as the package is a) in the ppa b) would rot for a week in -proposed anyway.
[18:06]  * dobey really doesn't like this new SRU thing
[18:08] <micahg> umm, those have been the rules for a while, just not enforced well
[18:10] <seb128> micahg, hey, how is the firefox 13 testing going?
[18:10] <micahg> seb128: just updating my VMs, will be starting soon :)
[18:10] <seb128> cool
[18:13] <bcurtiswx> The SRU proceedures are laborious now, makes me shy away from them
[18:13] <dobey> micahg: perhaps, but probably for good reason.
[18:13] <dobey> bcurtiswx: exactly
[18:14] <micahg> bcurtiswx: as has been mentioned, these have been the procedures for quite a while, people have just been ignoring them
[18:14] <dobey> the [Test Case] is fine, and makes sense, but the other stuff seems overly redundant and costly
[18:15] <bcurtiswx> It's all fine , and i completely understand why they're enforcing it now, especially with an MOTU app coming in the next few months i'll NEED to be that detailed in my SRU exampels :P
[18:15] <micahg> dobey: rational and regression potential are to save the SRU team some time in evaluating the upload
[18:15] <jbicha_> how do you evaluate "regression potential"?
[18:16] <dobey> micahg: rational?
[18:16] <dobey> jbicha_: it's always "Unknown"
[18:16] <micahg> dobey: why the update is happening
[18:16] <dobey> jbicha_: or "Minimal" if you prefer :)
[18:16] <jbicha_> I like "minimal" ;)
[18:16] <dobey> micahg: there is nothing in "Procedure" about rational.
[18:16] <micahg> jbicha_: regression potential is how likely the change will affect the surrounding code
[18:17] <micahg> dobey: s/rationale/imapct/
[18:17] <micahg> *impact
[18:17] <dobey> micahg: but isn't the bug report itself exactly what that section is supposed to be?
[18:17] <micahg> dobey: it's to highlight the issue so the SRU team doesn't have to read the whole report
[18:18] <jbicha_> don't we want the SRU team to read the bug report?
[18:18] <dobey> i would hope the SRU team would be reading the bug report
[18:18] <micahg> no, they should just need to read the description (some of the reports get really long)
[18:19] <dobey> i mean, if all this stuff is in the description anyway
[18:19] <dobey> micahg: yes, but comments != report
[18:19] <micahg> dobey: yes, but not all the info is in the description from the outset
[18:21] <dobey> micahg: sure, and some people take better care to maintain their projects/packages than others might. the extent of requirement makes more sense for arbitrary updates to arbitrary packages, but less so for well maintained things
[18:21] <dobey> i mean, i'm pretty sure chrisccoulson doesn't have to provide a minimal patch applicable to the previous version of firefox, when updating to the new version :)
[18:22] <micahg> dobey: well maintained things should probably go for SRU mircorelease exceptions :)
[18:22] <chrisccoulson> i can if you like, but then the SRU team will spend several months reviewing it
[18:22] <micahg> chrisccoulson: we already have SRU exceptions :)
[18:22] <bcurtiswx> micahg, my SRU is a microrelease and they still wanted FULL guideline in description
[18:22] <dobey> chrisccoulson: and then there will be 4 more releases of firefox to review by the time they're done! :)
[18:22] <micahg> bcurtiswx: there's a process for microrelease exceptions
[18:23] <chrisccoulson> well, the SRU process doesn't really scale to uploads that fix more than a single issue anyway
[18:23] <chrisccoulson> unless you have a test case for every commit
[18:23] <Sweetshark_nhome> seb128: arrgh, the internetz are slow here, upload will take a while anyway -- so tommorrow ...
[18:23] <micahg> well, it scales to a handful or so (and the idea is to have a test case for every bug in an SRU)
[18:23] <dobey> besides, there's no way the SRU team can properly review any patch that's more than a few lines for a simple change.
[18:24] <bcurtiswx> micahg, its confusing to what they want.. just to go ahead and upload? no SRU bug request?
[18:24] <dobey> unless it's for something they themselves work on
[18:24] <micahg> bcurtiswx: AIUI, stuff w/microrelease exceptions need a tracking bug still
[18:25] <dobey> micahg: vs. simply having the bugs which are fixed in the micro release?
[18:25] <micahg> dobey: AIUI, yes (but IANA SRU team member)
[18:26] <jbicha_> for instance, the clutter point release fixes bugs, but there's no way I will be able to write testcases for them
[18:27] <dobey> jbicha_: there are certainly cases like that
[18:27] <jbicha_> so depending on how stricly it's enforced, there will be less SRUs
[18:27] <dobey> jbicha_: not to mention cases where the test case is "step 1) boot into Windows XP"
[18:27] <micahg> well, depends if clutter falls under the GNOME point release exception, maybe seb128 can help determine that
[18:27] <jbicha_> lol
[18:28] <jbicha_> oh GNOME has an exception?
[18:29] <dobey> jbicha_: well, it's not listed on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
[18:29] <dobey> which is odd
[18:30] <jbicha_> I mean bug 999593 was kind of cute, in that it was only translation updates
[18:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 999593 in vinagre "3.4.2 stable version" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/999593
[18:30] <dobey> i guess i need mail the tech board
[18:30] <micahg> hrm, I thought GNOME had an exception for bug fix only updates
[18:30] <dobey> jbicha_: it's missing the regression potential! :)
[18:32] <dobey> jbicha_: though i don't immediately trust translations only changes either. i have had broken translations break things far too many times
[18:35] <bcurtiswx> finding out a little bit more about Microrelease Exceptions, you need to be on this list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
[18:35] <bcurtiswx> otherwise even a microrelease still needs ALL that from SRU process
[18:35] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, ^^ ICYWW
[18:35]  * Sweetshark_nhome will just write "regression potential: yes" ...
[18:36] <kenvandine> !!!
[18:36] <kenvandine> i thought gnome was on that list!
[18:36] <kenvandine> seb128, ^^
[18:38] <bcurtiswx> i asked about GNOME before you said that, and nobody in -motu has chirped up about any GNOME exception
[18:40] <Sweetshark_nhome> well, that list is not reflecting reality as LibreOffice has rightfully been MRUed too.
[18:40] <micahg> bcurtiswx: -motu wouldn't inherently know about GNOME anyways :)
[18:40] <micahg> Sweetshark_nhome: you haven't applied for an exception for libreoffice yet
[18:41] <Sweetshark_nhome> micahg: AFAI am concerned it had one from the start (i.e. before I joined)
[18:41] <micahg> Sweetshark_nhome: nope, you need to apply: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
[18:42] <bcurtiswx> I think GNOME would have been on of the first MRE's there. <shrugs>
[18:43] <bcurtiswx> s/on/one
[18:43] <kenvandine> i thought we've done those for gnome
[18:43] <kenvandine> seb128 would know
[18:43]  * bcurtiswx sends a pitchfork and fire brigade out for seb128 at dinner..
[18:44] <micahg> Sweetshark_nhome: I believe there's a desire for one, but it just needs to be proven in practice
[18:45] <Sweetshark_nhome> micahg: Ill let pitti and seb128 sort that out. It was reality up to now and I would not throw in extra bureaucrazy to _keep_ the status quo.
[18:47] <micahg> Sweetshark_nhome: you generally have trial SRUs before going for the microrelease exception, once the first few go well and show that the world doesn't break and there aren't any regressions, then one generally applies for the microrelease exception
[18:48] <micahg> Sweetshark_nhome: as I mentioned back in January, you seem to be taking advantage of the trial window without going for the exception (and suggested that you apply for the MRE before you start SRUing for precise)
[18:53] <Sweetshark_nhome> micahg: as long as the bus factor for libreoffice is 1, all those discussions are sophistic academics anyway.
[18:54] <micahg> Sweetshark_nhome: what do you mean?
[18:57] <Sweetshark_nhome> there is noone (except maybe doko) who can review libreoffice upstream changes in ubuntu anyway (which is a pity) ...
[18:58] <micahg> Sweetshark_nhome: the idea is to not have to do those reviews and to rely on the upstream regression tests mostly, but there's a process for allowing that in the distro
[19:00] <Sweetshark_nhome> fwiw I trust the ~12.000 users downloading the rc from the libreoffice ppa a lot more than any process involving people having nothing todo with libreoffice at all reviewing updates, no matter in what way they are doing it.
[19:01] <micahg> Sweetshark_nhome: that's great that you have so many users of the RC, but that doesn't mean that you can ignore the distro processes that other upstreams need to go through (and if the quality is as good as you say, it should be an easy application)
[19:09] <seb128> re
[19:09] <dobey> seb128: save the world with your super powers!
[19:09] <kenvandine> hey seb128!
[19:09] <seb128> jbicha_, kenvandine, bcurtiswx: they dropped the GNOME standing exception stuff I think, well those were for pre-releases freezes anyway
[19:09] <seb128> not for SRU
[19:09] <seb128> you always want some care with SRUs
[19:09] <kenvandine> ok... kde is still on there :)
[19:09] <micahg> kenvandine: KDE applied for an SRU exception
[19:10] <seb128> GNOME screwed in the past (I would say they are not good post release since they have no freeze left, no review, no testing)
[19:10] <kenvandine> ok, makes sense to drop that then
[19:10] <dobey> seb128: freezes are supposed to remain in effect in upstream GNOME
[19:11] <dobey> seb128: but they can be lax about some of them as well
[19:11] <seb128> dobey, well, not hard freeze where r-t does reviews
[19:11] <seb128> which in practice means there is no review
[19:11] <seb128> nobody enforcing the freeze
[19:11] <dobey> yeah, upstream gnome does not have good process
[19:11] <seb128> you can add that GNOME does virtually no automated or manual testing for releases
[19:11] <dobey> it's mostly whatever maintainer deems ok
[19:12] <dobey> and the stuff that's not directly part of GNOME itself, but which GNOME uses, will sometimes break certain things pretty badly *cought*gtk*cough* :)
[19:13] <bcurtiswx> Good points made. I'm
[19:14] <bcurtiswx> Sitting at a red light lol. I<3 technology
[19:14] <kenvandine> :)
[19:15] <dobey> bcurtiswx: that's illegal in VA :)
[19:15] <dobey> "Don't IRC and drive."
[19:27] <bcurtiswx> It's illegal to drive. I was totally stopped :-P
[19:36] <dobey> bcurtiswx: it's illegal to operate a cellular device while sitting in the driver's seat of a vehicle, in VA. i won't mention all the police i see driving around in patrol cars playing with their cell phones, though.
[19:37] <dobey> come on MRE. get approved
[19:38] <bcurtiswx> dobey, weird i've had cops sit at intersections next to me and stare at me using my cell phone and couldn't care...
[19:38] <dobey> bcurtiswx: yeah, it's not a very well enforced law. sort of like SRU rules :)
[19:42] <dobey> hrmm. tech board doesn't have great timezone coverage
[19:44] <micahg> dobey: since their meetings are normally discussion vs having applicants, I would think it matters less
[19:46] <dobey> micahg: sure, in that sense, yes.
[19:46] <dobey> but not in the "who can i bribe right now" sense, when there are applications :)
[19:48] <micahg> dobey: I think in terms of having someone around always, they do have decent coverage
[19:50] <dobey> micahg: eh? there are 2 people who aren't in europe, and those 2 people, while in the US, aren't in positions where ubuntu development is their primary focus
[19:50] <dobey> but anyway
[19:51] <micahg> dobey: cjwatson is usually around until late evening US, kees is usually a ping away
[19:52] <micahg> dobey: and I think you forgot about stgraber :)
[19:53] <dobey> oh, right. i didn't realize he was in montreal. i thought he was in europe too :)
[19:54] <dobey> but still, a good thing i'm not in APAC :)
[19:54] <stgraber> well, I almost spend a quarter of the year in Europe, but yeah, I'm usually on US/Canada eastern
[19:55] <dobey> heh
[19:57] <dobey> stgraber: what do you think of my MRE request? also feel free to moderate it through to the list, if it hasn't been yet ;)
[19:58] <stgraber> dobey: I can't see it, I'll poke cjwatson to do a moderation run
[19:58] <bcurtiswx> kenvandine, OK I've updated the bug appropriately, hopefully they see it :)
[19:58] <dobey> ah ok
[20:00] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx, thx
[20:45] <dobey> mterry: does deja-dup add a "Restore missing files…" item in nautilus?
[20:46] <mterry> dobey, yes
[20:47] <dobey> mterry: ah. yay confusion! seems people sometimes mistake it as something that will download files from ubuntuone, vs. restoring from a backup (whether that backup is on u1 or not)
[20:47] <dobey> particularly confusing for users who don't use deja-dup i guess
[20:47] <dobey> mterry: cf the description in bug #1006583
[20:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1006583 in ubuntuone-client "Ubuntu One does not synchronize files after reinstall" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1006583
[20:48] <mterry> dobey, :-/
[20:48] <dobey> yeah
[20:48] <dobey> probably causes confusion with dropbox as well
[20:49] <dobey> particularly when inside the u1 folder
[20:49] <dobey> or dropbox
[20:49] <dobey> or whatever
[20:49] <dobey> not sure how to fix that exactly
[20:49] <dobey> but i do like the intention of it :)
[20:51] <mterry> dobey, yeah not sure what the best fix is there
[20:51] <mterry> dobey, maybe "... from backup" but some users would likley still get confused
[20:51] <dobey> of course we also have confusion with the things that add sharing stuff
[20:52] <dobey> mterry: indeed, and these things need to be short, not long winded explanations :)
[20:53] <dobey> mterry: perhaps setting it insensitive if deja-dup isn't configured would be a good start though
[20:53] <dobey> then at least people won't click on it and get an annoying error about deja-dup not being configured, but which they don't understand either
[20:54] <mterry> dobey, I think in such cases, we let the user configure things
[20:57] <dobey> mterry: hrmm, that report said he got an error about restore failing due to no hostname specified
[20:58] <mterry> dobey, maybe there's a bug, but the intent was to guide the user through pointing at their restore
[20:59] <dobey> mterry: maybe the user went through it, but had no idea what was going on, and thought it was related to getting his files out of ubuntu one, but it just failed at the end?
[20:59] <dobey> software is hard :-/
[21:49] <david> i'm  looking for the desktop manager
[21:50] <Daviey> david: jasoncwarner_ timezone is 7:50AM.. so he won't be online just yet.
[21:51] <david> is he signed on right now or is that jason someone else?
[21:53] <robert_ancell> RAOF, so how come xf86-input-wacom doesn't use the xserver-xorg-input- package naming?
[21:54] <robert_ancell> also, does nouveau not have any tarball releases?
[21:54] <bryceh> robert_ancell, it's maintained by a different person than the regular debian-x team
[21:54] <bryceh> robert_ancell, they've not put out formal releases.  -ati is also very intermittent on tarball releases so we usually ship snapshots
[21:56] <Optichip> welcome techman246!
[22:08] <techman246> what time does jason normally get on?
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> techman246, he was still around quite late last night/this morning, so perhaps he'll be online a little bit later than normal today
[23:04] <techman246> is jason here yet
[23:24] <RAOF> techman246: Maybe, if you give him a ping?
[23:36] <david> i'm here
[23:37] <david> is jason on yet
[23:50] <RAOF> david: We don't know; he hasn't said anything yet, but then no one has pinged him. jasoncwarner_ ^^^?
[23:50] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: here, just doing my morning email ;)
[23:51] <jasoncwarner_> david: I'm here, just going through email, trying to get some coffee so I at least resemble a human person (had a very late night call regarding GUADEC, so, you know)