nemo*sigh*  who writes these depressingly wrong reviews in the Ubuntu Software Centre :(02:25
nemoIn the past I had admired the ones we had for prior versions of Ubuntu...02:25
nemoWell written, nice appreciation of the game, detailed02:26
nemoSooo, I go to Ubuntu 12.0402:26
nemoAnd I get Brendon King saying that you should install and run it under Windows instead because it is a little more stable02:26
nemoSooooooo totally wrong!02:26
nemoWe have way more problems with our Windows users02:26
nemoQt problems, OpenGL problems02:26
nemoIt was only recently that we even managed to get fullscreen to *work* in windows02:27
nemoand we still have IFDEFs to work around issues02:27
* nemo sighs02:27
lifelesswell, $users :)02:27
nemolifeless: so it *is* users? It isn't microsoft astroturfing spreading to top entries in your software centre?02:27
nemolifeless: I wonder 'cause there's been increasing Microsoft astroturning on /.02:28
nemoAdmittedly the SNR on /. is not great, but the astroturfing for major companies is kind of obvious.  Long posts that appear the instant an article goes up02:28
nemoeh. guess I'm being paranoid. still. sad.  hopefully quality of the reviews improves over time. I guess 12.04 has only been out for a month02:29
lifelessI think there is a voting system :)02:34
nemolifeless: what I really want is a way to e-mail him to talk some sense02:44
nemobut unfortunately google wasn't forthcoming :)02:45
nemolifeless: hm. something else I just noticed. total size on disc is totally wrong too02:46
nemolooks like it isn't including hedgewars-data02:47
nemoweird I thought it was correct before02:47
nemo8.5MiB instead of closer to... 150MiB I guess - the ogg files really take up space02:49
nemo$ du -hs /usr/share/games/hedgewars/02:50
nemoaaand 8.0M/usr/lib/hedgewars/02:50
nemook. just 130MiB - still :)02:50
ionBase-2 unit prefixes aren’t very useful for us humans. :-P02:54
nemoion: eh? is all relative anyway. and 2^10 ~ 10^303:07
nemoanyway. nowhere near 8½MiB :-p03:08
pittiGood morning04:34
dokoyou're late this morning ;p04:39
pittidoko: are you still in Taipei, or also up early?04:39
dokopitti, no Hongkong now04:40
pittidoko: time for a quick python question?04:40
pittidoko: has it ever been discussed to provide a python version with --enable-valgrind?04:41
pittidoko: e. g. could we at least build -dbg with it, if the runtime check is considered unnecessary overhead?04:42
pittiwithout it, it's practically impossible to use valgrind to debug leaks in your extension, as python itself throws hundreds of those due to its own allocator04:43
dokopitti, afaik, no. sure, that sounds doable. otoh, I would like to know how much it slows down the execution04:43
pittidoko: I'm perfectly fine with only building -dbg with it04:43
pittidoko: it incurs an extra check if the program is running under valgrind (not much, but might cost a few thousand cycles), and an extra "if" check on a boolean for every object allocation04:44
pittidoko: do you know a standardized test for this? if not, I could just run the pygobject test suite with the two builds and compare the times04:45
pittidoko: so if that hasn't been discussed, I guess I'll open a bug and do some performance comparison; would you prefer a Debian or LP bug?04:45
dokopitti, let's do LP first. won't be for the next debian release anyway04:46
pittino? ok04:46
pittidoko: danke04:48
larsduesingGuten Morgen - Good morning :-)05:39
=== smb` is now known as smb
dholbachgood morning07:06
mvoev: hey, good morning! is there a way for errors.ubuntu.com to show me only report for the "last-seen" version? the top bug there should be fixed with and I would love to see a stacktrace from the version (if its really not fixed there)07:07
mvohey dholbach, good morning!07:07
dholbachhey mvo07:08
evmvo: getting a stacktrace for a binary program for a specific version is impossible right now. We only ask for one per stacktrace address signature. However, it's definitely something to look at in the future.07:12
evmvo: I could make it so clicking on the "last seen" version takes you to a report for that version. mpt, what do you think?07:12
evmvo: we chatted about last night. In precise, we still get reports from users where the running binary does not match the installed version (they upgraded while running). This is fixed in quantal (thanks pitti!) and being backported to precise.07:12
pittiI'm preparing the SRU right now07:12
mvoev: oh, awsome07:13
pittiunfortunately someone else than me still needs to verify bug 989698, to unblock precise-proposed for apport07:13
ubottuLaunchpad bug 989698 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "Data collection progress window is still appearing post-release" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98969807:13
mvoev: yeah, it would rock to be able to click on the latest ver and get taken to the stracktrace07:13
mvoev: and thanks pitti for this fix, that is a relief :)07:13
* mvo was a bit worried about a overlooked case in this fix07:13
pittimvo: actually, the fix only applies to signal crashes, not to Python stack traces -- is that a signal crash?07:14
mvoits a python stack trace07:14
pittioh -- I'm afraid that's not fixed yet then07:14
* mvo nods07:15
pittijust curious that people keep s-c open for such a long time07:15
pittithis fix was actually aimed at things like gnome-settings-daemon, which run all the time07:16
pittiand you might still have a 30 day old process running after upgrading twice in between07:16
mvoyeah, indeed07:16
mvobut for the update is just 17h old, so that would explain why the frequency is still relatively high07:17
didrocks@pilot in07:22
=== udevbot_ changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: didrocks
* dholbach hugs didrocks07:26
* didrocks hugs dholbach back07:28
dupondjedidrocks should join https://launchpad.net/~dholbach-huggers/+members :p07:32
didrocksdupondje: heh, kind of old good time ;)07:33
sladenhug mob Prague?07:34
sladenthe interweb provides:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jzGIaZcGcM07:38
dokomicahg, ping08:33
mvoev: errors.ubuntu.com is already collecting quantal crashes I assume, right?08:37
mvoev: aha, unquestion, just found it I think08:38
didrocksjamespage: hey, FYI, https://code.launchpad.net/~gleichsnerd/ubuntu/precise/mountall/fix-for-805509/+merge/107908 has been resubmitted, I guess you directly want to take it upstream, isn't it?08:39
* jamespage looks08:40
jamespagedidrocks, wrong james - you want jodh :-)  but I agree that it should go upstream08:41
jodhdidrocks: actually, no - mountall is a native package.08:42
vibhavCould anybody nominate https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shogun/+bug/1006039 for natty ?08:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1006039 in shogun (Ubuntu) "missing libatlas-dev dependency for libshogun-dev" [Undecided,Fix released]08:44
pittithat doesn't sound like a good SRU08:44
=== NCommand1r is now known as NCommander
vibhavHAVE_ATLAS triggers <atlas/clapack.h>08:45
vibhavWhich is in libatlas-dev08:45
vibhavpitti: why?08:46
pittithat's only necessary to build packages08:46
xnoxbecause you can easily fix it by doing $ apt-get install libatlas-dev08:46
pittiand we won't start a mass rebuild in natty now08:46
xnoxvibhav: is missing that dependency causing other SRU's to FTBFS? Has the dependency been removed in Natty, since Natty was released? (Regression)08:47
pittiif that was a problem, it would have come up by now08:48
vibhavBut a program using HAVE_ATLAs could get this problem08:48
pittiagain: trivial workaround, not a run time bug problem -> very far away from SRU criteria08:49
pittiit's not worth spending anyone's time on this really08:49
jodhdidrocks: the mountall change looks good to me.08:49
vibhavfine, thanks08:49
didrocksjodh: do you want me to sponsor it?08:53
didrocksjamespage: sorry for the wrong ping :)08:53
didrockshum, I can't push to lp:ubuntu/precise/qwt weird…08:53
jamespagedidrocks, np :-)08:53
pittididrocks: precise-proposed?08:54
didrocksah, the branch name as well, yep, didn't notice thanks pitti08:56
didrockspitti: can you mark https://code.launchpad.net/~l3on/ubuntu/oneiric/qwt/fix-921430/+merge/107534 and https://code.launchpad.net/~l3on/ubuntu/precise/qwt/fix-921430/+merge/107533 as merged or reject? I'll add a comment and push to the right branch08:56
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
pittididrocks: done08:58
didrocksthanks pitti :)08:59
didrockspitti: it seems to only have worked on the precise MR, not the oneiric one: https://code.launchpad.net/~l3on/ubuntu/oneiric/qwt/fix-921430/+merge/10753409:00
pittididrocks: perhaps I mis-clicked; done09:01
* didrocks hugs pitti09:01
micahgdoko: pong09:03
didrockspitti: can you reject as well https://code.launchpad.net/~gleichsnerd/ubuntu/precise/mountall/fix-for-805509/+merge/107908 please?09:07
micahgdoko: I saw the E-Mail, I haven't gotten as far as a test build for Chromium 19 (having some issues with source generation), about to go to sleep, will try to have a look later toady09:07
jodhdidrocks: thanks for the offer, but I'd like to give that one a go if you don't mind?09:09
jodhdidrocks: oh - is there a problem with that mp?09:09
didrocksjodh: no, I just merged into lp:ubuntu/mountall (it's your trunk, right?)09:10
didrocksjodh: the target is wrong: lp:ubuntu/precise/mountall09:10
didrocksjodh: but the manpage is now merged, I won't upload it and let you this pleasure ;)09:10
jodhdidrocks: ah, right. thanks! :)09:10
didrocksyw ;)09:11
pittididrocks: done09:13
dokomicahg, ok, thanks09:26
mptpitti, sorry to bother you with administrivia, but could you reset the slope lines on the quantal burndown charts? The current lines start from before most work items were approved.09:26
mpt(or tell me who I should badger about it instead:-)09:26
pittimpt: I can't, sorry; I have no access to status.u.c.09:26
pittimpt: cjohnston knows how the process works now09:26
mptpitti, ok, thanks. Will bug 1002828 be similarly a configuration problem rather than a bug?09:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1002828 in work-items-tracker "All ubuntu-precise burndown charts are squashed and the target date is wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/100282809:27
cjwatsonmpt: cjohnston told me that we'd do this at FeatureDefinitionFreeze; the release schedule says that's tomorrow09:27
pittiright, was just going to suggest taht09:28
pittiwe should just trash the db09:28
pittiit's rather late in the cycle to do that, but better than starting with totally wrong WIs09:28
mptI don't see anything wrong with the WIs, just with the slope lines09:28
mptoh, if you mean start from a new zero date for Quantal09:29
mptmakes sense09:29
pittiwell, trash the db so that we discard all the history09:29
cjohnstonI'm slightly confused.. I'm trashing the quantal db for feature def freeze...09:30
geserdo we get dpkg >= 1.16.2 for quantal?09:30
cjohnstonI don't think doing that with precise will provide the desired output09:30
cjohnstonThe precise issue, I believe, is because we are still running the scripts for the precise release cycle09:31
cjohnstonand so it picked up the further milestones09:31
pittirighth, that'll require some db surgery to remove again09:31
cjohnstonwe have to fix the process by which we run the scripts to where we arent doing all releases prior to doing anything with precise09:31
micahggeser: as soon as someone sorts out how to not break the world with the upgrade09:31
pittiand I think we can just stop this; it's taking many hours a day for little (or even negative) purpose09:31
cjohnstonpitti: there are some backups, so I will maybe be able to figure out how to get back close to what it should be09:32
cjohnstonpitti: the issue is because we want to be able to change the config files at will, IS wrote a script that pulls the bzr branch with the configs, then runs the all script09:32
cjohnstonso the script needs to be rewritten to where the config files that it runs are defined somehow09:33
pittiright, the precise config should be renamed to .disabled or so09:33
infinitymicahg: Not much to sort out except migrating dpkg.cfg multiarch configs to the New World Order...09:33
cjohnstonthat wouldnt have any effect on the site or the data that is already there pitti ?09:33
* infinity wonders if he just volunteered to do this.09:34
pitticjohnston: in addition to the db surgery09:34
micahginfinity: right, but someone has to do it (and I thought you already volunteered)09:34
infinitymicahg: Oh, did I?  In that case, I should do that. :P09:34
cjohnstonpitti: right.. but not a negative effect on the actual site as it sits today09:34
cjohnstonif so, would you mind making that change to all of the config files in the branch except quantal and summit-2012?09:35
infinitygeser: I guess the answer is that we get a new dpkg when I do the migration. :P09:35
penguin359I'm looking to work on an issue in network-manager, but I am getting lost in the various branches on launchpad.net09:35
mptpenguin359, cyphermox is the person to ask about that09:36
cjwatsoninfinity: *applause*09:36
penguin359It looks like lp:network-manager represents a branch of the upstream version09:36
pittipenguin359: if you want to work on the upstream branch, I recommend using http://cgit.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/ instead09:38
pittipenguin359: that way you can use format-patch for upstream submission, and have the current version09:38
penguin359pitti: no, it's a file only in Ubuntu.09:38
penguin359I'm trying to figure out what the packaging branch is09:39
pittipenguin359: if you want to work on the package, use "debcheckout network-manager" to get the right branch09:39
pittipenguin359: see Vcs-Bzr: field on apt-cache showsrc (that's what debcheckout uses)09:39
cjohnstonpitti: are you ok with that?09:41
pitticjohnston: you mean disabling all non-current files? sure, I think that's what I used to do back in the days09:42
cjohnstonok.. great.. thanks.. I'm off to dinner in a few minutes.. :-)09:42
pitticjohnston: committed09:44
cjohnstonthanks pitti09:45
cjohnstonI'll try working with IS to see if there is a good db backup09:45
cjohnstonany idea when the change happened so that I can try to find one after release but before the change that broke the charts?09:46
pittiI'd use the release date, April 2809:46
pitticjohnston: i. e. end of april/may 1 or so would do fine09:46
cjohnstonok.. I don't think they are doing daily backups, so I'll look around but after that time..09:46
pittiif not, we can apply a little sql09:47
cjohnstonI'd also be quite interested in seeing how much of a change there is to the update time09:48
penguin359Doesn't Vcs-Bzr: represent the most current version that is on it's way to become Quantal?  What would I checkout if I was working on a patch for Lucid that no longer applies in more recent Ubuntu releases?09:50
infinitypenguin359: If in doubt, apt-get source on lucid.09:51
infinitypenguin359: (There may or may not be lucid branches for everything, but the archive is authoritative regardless)09:52
penguin359I do regularly use apt-get source for modifying packages for my system, but that has always been for private use and hasn't involved source control.  I'm trying to better understand the various release patterns and branches now that I am working on patching a bug that might affect others in my situation.09:54
penguin359I can just produce a patch with that, but I recently tried using Bazaar and I got a disapproval mentioning that I applied it to the wrong branch.09:55
didrocks@pilot out09:55
=== udevbot_ changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
pittipenguin359: we don't really have a good story for old stable branches so far; debdiffs should always work and be appreciated for sponsoring09:56
pittipenguin359: if you find someone who tells you "I won't sponsor that debdiff, do a branch instead", there's something wrong09:56
pitti(particularly for an SRU)09:56
penguin359ok, thankx09:57
penguin359Could you take a quick look at http://bit.ly/Kb5DpC and tell me what he's referring to as the packaging branch?10:01
penguin359I thought he meant lp:~network-manager/network-manager/ubuntu, but that looks like what I used in the first place10:02
pittipenguin359: yes, that comment seems wrong10:03
pittipenguin359: I suggest to ping cyphermox about it, that MP looks fine10:03
infinityogra_: So, regarding f-k... If you're willing to clean up the mess, let's just sync it.10:33
infinityogra_: But clean fast. :P10:33
ogra_well, i planned to at least have omap, ac100 and omap4 for A1 ...10:33
ogra_in the realese meeting we said arm is a nice to have for A1, so everything extra would be fine but missing it wouldnt be a disaster10:34
infinityYeah, I wasn't sure we'd make the live switch by A1 anyway.10:34
ogra_i just dont want to inverst a minute in the old f-k after switching to live ... that would be waste10:34
infinityBut syncing/merging f-k is a good first step.10:34
infinityAlright.  Sync away, then.  I'll just become remarkably silent here in HK if it explodes. ;)10:35
ogra_k, i'll try to have it in by EOD10:35
ogra_HK uses quantal images ?10:35
infinityIf you're just syncing, we can have it in by.. Now.10:35
ogra_well, i cant sync, can just file a bug :)10:35
infinityogra_: No, I just mean that I'll ignore you when it breaks. ;)10:35
infinityogra_: Sure you can.10:36
ogra_oh, thats fine ...10:36
ogra_i can ? you mean i can do more than running requestsync ?10:36
* ogra_ wasnt aware 10:36
infinityogra_: syncpackage --force -d unstable flash-kernel10:36
ogra_oh my10:36
ogra_how did i miss that10:36
ogra_oh, probably because i never use ubuntu-dev-tools :P10:37
* ogra_ installs 10:37
infinityPretty sure that works off of upload rights, not queue permissions.  You can tell me if I'm wrong. :P10:37
cjwatsonYou're correct.10:38
cjwatsonogra_: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2012-January/000923.html10:38
ogra_cjwatson, yeah, i remember having read that, but u-d-t has such a lot of messy deps i never use10:39
infinityEven with --no-install-recommends?10:39
cjwatsonMeh, most of the heavy ones are Recommends.10:39
infinityI didn't think it was that bloated...10:39
* infinity looks.10:39
ogra_43M here10:39
cjwatsonThe Depends are sane enough.10:39
ogra_better than devscripts for sure10:40
cjwatsonMostly stuff you'd have on a development system (at least one with launchpadlib) anyway.10:40
* ogra_ doesnt want an MTA on his ac100 ...10:40
cjwatsonubuntu-dev-tools Depends: devscripts ;-)10:40
infinitydevscripts is also really lightweight with --no-install-recommends.10:40
ogra_argh !10:40
ogra_so let me install devscripts first omitting recommends10:41
cjwatsonBut yeah, with --no-install-recommends I wouldn't expect either to pull in an MTA.10:41
ogra_it wouldnt be that annoying if the apt option wouldnt be half a novel to type :)10:41
infinityIt's muscle memory here.10:42
ogra_if it actually becomes muscle memory i would start using a config option10:42
ogra_though we dont have the inverse of this option, do we ?10:42
infinityNah, I like to try without the switch first, see what it wants, then do the opposite. :P10:42
infinity--install-recommends may well exist to invert configs.10:43
cjwatsonIt does seem like a good case for a short option.  I think -r is unused.10:43
infinityDunno, never tried.10:43
cjwatsoninfinity: I think it does, yes.10:43
cjwatsoncmdline/apt-get.cc:3464:      {0,"install-recommends","APT::Install-Recommends",CommandLine::Boolean},10:43
ogra_phew, what a changelog10:46
geserand there is also "apt-get install --fix-policy --install-recommends" to fix it afterwards10:47
ogra_heh, even more typing10:47
Laneyand you can apt-get install foo bar- to negate a specific recommends10:47
infinityLaney: Or apt-get remove foo+ bar JUST TO CONFUSE YOURSELF.10:48
Laneythat works?!?!?!10:48
ogra_anyway, time for an announcement mail, i wonder if ubuntu-devel is enough10:49
infinityogra_: More than enough.10:49
infinityogra_: As is usually the case with such announces, the people who read it won't care, and the people who need to know won't read it. ;)10:49
geserLaney: of course that works, apt has super cow powers10:50
ogra_heh, indeed, i even doubt they are subscribed to u-d10:50
ogra_but at least i have something to point to if someone complains10:50
xnoxogra_: "But Mr Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months."10:56
xnox-- Quotes From Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy10:56
* ogra_ has his towel 10:57
ogra_so dont panic ;)10:57
=== ara is now known as Guest64238
dupondjeHi, when do we create a -dbg package? Are there some defaults for this ?12:35
hallynjdstrand: as far as you know is there anything under /proc/device-tree that qemu under libvirt shouldn't read?  (bug 1006149)12:35
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1006149 in libvirt (Ubuntu Quantal) "PowerPC needs access to /proc/device-tree/ in apparmor perms" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/100614912:35
cjwatsondupondje: It's up to each package.12:35
cjwatsondupondje: I'd recommend only doing so when the -dbg package is built in a different build pass with some different configure or compiler options.  Otherwise, the automatically-generated -dbgsym packages on ddebs.ubuntu.com are usually adequate.12:36
dupondjecjwatson: oh ok, didn't know there were auto-generated12:37
dupondjethats fine enough indeed12:37
=== _salem is now known as salem_
jdstrandhallyn: no, I don't. the 'davis' porting machine has /proc/device-tree12:42
jdstrandhallyn: if libvirtd needs access to /roc/device-tree, that is fine, but the bug is asking for libvirt-qemu to be updated, which is every guest12:43
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
jdstrandhallyn: we have quite restricted files for guests, so I would prefer that only specific entries or limited globs to libvirt-qemu be added12:44
jdstrandhallyn: in other words, demonstrated denials12:45
hallynjdstrand: ok, thanks12:45
hallyni wonder if device-tree will ever show up on x86 (if not i guess this minimizes the worry at least a bit)12:48
jdstrandI doubt it. I see /proc/device-tree/openprom12:49
jdstrandbut that is just a hunch12:49
mterrydidrocks, heyo.  Can I bug you for a review of that quickly branch sometime this week?14:09
mterrypitti, does apt-cache rdepends not cover build-depends?14:10
xnoxmterry: no. use reverse-depends from ubuntu-dev-tools14:21
mterryxnox, ah, thanks!14:21
didrocksmterry: yeah, it's in my TODO :)14:24
didrocksmterry: sorry, just had a meeting14:24
mterrydidrocks, no probs!  thanks!14:25
didrocksmterry: probably tomorrow will be the day!14:25
henrixcjwatson: sorry to bother you again, but it looks like there are still some kernel pkgs in universe...14:37
cjwatsonhenrix: let me recheck14:38
henrixcjwatson: thanks14:38
cjwatsonhenrix: I can't find them - can you give me examples?14:38
cjwatsonOr a list14:38
henrixcjwatson: 1 sec14:38
henrixcjwatson: for example: block-modules-3.0.0-21-generic-di 3.0.0-21.35~lucid114:39
henrixcjwatson: you can have the complete list on bug #100545614:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1005456 in linux-lts-backport-oneiric (Ubuntu) "linux-lts-backport-oneiric: 3.0.0-21.35~lucid1 -proposed tracker" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/100545614:39
cjwatsonOh, lucid14:39
henrixah, right... yesterday i may have referred oneiric only :-/14:40
cjwatsonhenrix: Fixed, sorry about that14:42
=== mbarnett` is now known as mbarnett
henrixcjwatson: thanks a lot14:42
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
=== jbicha is now known as Guest70781
bdmurraypitti: where is the code for the pending-sru page?14:54
cjwatsonbdmurray: sru-report in lp:ubuntu-archive-tools14:57
cjwatsonIn fact it says that in the HTML14:57
bdmurraycjwatson: heh, thanks14:59
bdmurraycjwatson: is there no API way to get the queue count?15:02
cjwatson>>> ubuntu = lp.distributions["ubuntu"]15:03
cjwatson>>> quantal = ubuntu.getSeries(name_or_version="quantal")15:03
cjwatson>>> len(quantal.getPackageUploads(status="New"))15:03
cjwatsonLike that you mean?15:03
=== Guest70781 is now known as jbicha_
bdmurraycjwatson: exactly, thanks15:10
PaoloRotoloHi all!15:11
=== elleuca_ is now known as Guest20629
cjwatsonbdmurray: wow, I had no idea it was screen-scraping that15:11
bdmurraycjwatson: I'll have a branch in a bit15:12
bdmurraycjwatson: the count also includes backports which I'd like to exclude15:13
Laneyyou can supply pocket too15:14
cjwatsonbdmurray: hm, not sure about that, we should be able to process all the backports more or less immediately and if we aren't doing so that's kind of rubbish15:14
cjwatsonseparate table or something maybe?15:14
bdmurraybut is the SRU report not backports report15:14
cjwatsontrue but we have so many reports as it is ...15:14
* cjwatson isn't going to look at another one, realistically15:14
bdmurrayokay, it should be easy to separate them out anyway15:14
cjwatsonI dunno, it's kind of cheesy I know but it's handy15:15
jdstrand@pilot on15:59
udevbot_(pilot (in|out)) -- Set yourself an in or out of patch pilot.15:59
jdstrand@pilot in15:59
=== udevbot_ changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots: jdstrand
jamespagedoko, when you are around please could you review the openjdk-7 debdiff on bug 888129?16:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 888129 in xmlgraphics-commons (Ubuntu Quantal) "xmlgraphics-commons version 1.4.dfsg-3ubuntu1 failed to build with openjdk-7" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88812916:08
jamespageI've tested it locally and it fixes this bug and bug 88812316:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 888123 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu Quantal) "erlang version 14.b.2-dfsg-3ubuntu2 failed to build with openjdk-7" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88812316:08
stgraberkees: heya, just noticed that hardening-includes uses readelf but doens't depend on binutils (lxc containers really don't contain much by default ;))16:24
slangasekwhy are you using hardening-includes without build-essential?16:25
stgraberfor hardening-check16:26
stgraberI'm doing a quick sru verification of bug 98631416:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 986314 in squid3 (Debian) "squid3 missing pie and bind-now hardening options" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98631416:26
stgraberand the test case uses hardening-check which I installed in my test container but failed because it tries to call readelf which I don't have :)16:26
=== Pici is now known as Guest55530
mterrymvo, hello!  Got a moment to talk about "update-manager --no-update" ?16:54
=== Pici` is now known as Pici
bdmurraypitti: your precise apport -proposed upload doesn't mention bug 1002535 which is included in the changelog17:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1002535 in apport (Ubuntu Precise) "'not a debian format' package install failures should be Unreportable" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/100253517:03
mvomterry: I'm about to call it a day, is it urgent? could we do it tomorrow your morning maybe?17:05
mterrymvo, sure, no rush17:06
mvomterry: please ping me when you go online, I should be around and have time then17:08
mterrymvo, ok17:09
mterrympt, what is your opinion of the badge on the update-manager launcher icon that shows the number of updates?  The new design seems to de-emphasize the specific number elsewhere17:11
mvomterry: no opinion, I'm fine killing it17:11
mvomterry: if mpt thinks that is the right way forward17:11
mterrymvo, cool17:12
slangaseklool: timezones notwithstanding, would you be able to verify the correctness of my SRU change for bug #986183?17:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 986183 in update-notifier (Ubuntu Precise) "Broken timedate handling for failed hook runs" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98618317:24
* xnox today I learned $ man dh-exec18:06
slangasekit's total crack, but it's tasty crack :)18:06
seb128slangasek, other SRU people: did you read my comment about emailed about the (new) SRU rules?18:10
seb128(that was yesterday)18:10
slangasekseb128: yes, I am drafting a mail18:10
seb128slangasek, thanks18:10
seb128slangasek, I got several other people a bit puzzled about the change again today, it will be good to have some public email out ;-)18:11
seb128slangasek, will spare work on both sides18:11
slangasekit's a change to enforce the rules that were always documented18:11
slangasekso I'm not too sympathetic towards people not knowing these were the rules - but yes, a mail will save us all time in the end :)18:11
seb128slangasek, right, well the rules were not enforced for years so people are surprised that what they have been doing for ages get bounced back from one day to the next one18:11
seb128slangasek, I've to admit I prefer less paperwork, I liked better when we were focussed on getting things done rather than on writing but I guess we need a balance there ;-)18:12
bdmurrayseb128: the test cases make the getting the verification done easier18:14
seb128bdmurray, right, the "[Stable Fix] section pointing out a minimal patch applicable to the stable version of the package" just doesn't make sense to me though for example18:15
seb128is that "attach the debdiff to the bug"?18:15
seb128if so it's weirdly formulated18:15
slangasekseb128: that section is going away18:15
slangasekas part of the mail I'm drafting :)18:15
seb128slangasek, well it's being asked on bugs which get commented on this week18:15
slangasekit is?18:15
seb128well the comment point to that wiki18:15
slangasekwell, yes18:15
slangasekbut the comment doesn't say that you need to add that section, does it?18:16
slangasekI will fix the wiki and send out mail18:16
seb128let me read it again ;-)18:16
bdmurrayand if the comment needs fixing after the email I'll fix it18:16
seb128" To be more succinct, make sure the bug description lists these18:16
seb128fields: "Impact, Dev Fix, Stable Fix, Regression Potential, Test case"."18:16
seb128slangasek, ^ that's what the comment says18:16
seb128so yes, it does18:16
seb128well those were comments from SpamapS18:16
bdmurrayright and I don't think he made the UDS session where this change was discussed18:17
bdmurraywe should all be on the same page real soon now18:17
seb128slangasek, and to fair I've no clue wat to write in "stable fix" out of copying the diff inline ... good to know it's being addressed ;-)18:17
slangasekSpamapS: ^^ so we should probably brief you on the changes to ubuntu-sru, rather than you reading about it on ubuntu-devel-announce ;)18:17
seb128bdmurray, slangasek: thanks18:17
seb128it's a bit backward that those rules are randomly applied before the SRU team got the documentation updated18:18
seb128or its things together18:18
seb128seems a bit backward18:18
seb128doh, I already said that :p18:18
seb128well anyway enough on the topic from me, thanks for addressing the issues ;-)18:18
SpamapSslangasek: that would be great. :)18:19
SpamapSI'm just going by the wiki page. 18:19
SpamapSThe dev/stable fix is only necessary if the bug has to be fixed in different ways.18:20
SpamapSI would love for there just to be a "Fix" section which just asks the developer fixing the issue to explain what their intended fix is.18:21
slangasekSpamapS: the changes are to drop the 'development fix' / 'stable fix' sections in favor of release tasks; clarify 'regression potential' so that it's focused on giving testers information about what parts of the package might warrant additional regression testing; relaxing the requirement for a distinct 'impact' header since this should be the bug description18:22
slangasekalso, based on cjwatson's feedback, I think we're going to relax the requirement for uploader & verifier to be separate people, so long as there's a solid test case write-up18:22
SpamapSslangasek: Fantastic. So basically, everything that I use to make decisions, has been sprayed out to different parts instead of put in a succinct place in the description?18:23
slangasekthis is mostly of concern to cjwatson due to the complexity of testing installer SRUs, but probably benefits SRUs for other packages too18:23
slangasekSpamapS: hmm, walk me through how these help you make decisions, please?  The SRU team members who were in the room didn't think these changes were a problem18:24
SpamapSThe requirement for fixer/tester to be different has never been specified in strong wording anyway, so that part makes sense.18:24
slangasekindeed, most of the time we don't have this information *anyway* in SRU bug descriptios18:24
SpamapSslangasek: I use the fields to decide whether or not the diff is even worth looking at.18:24
SpamapSslangasek: low impact bugs with a poorly specified test case or high regression potential should be rejected.18:25
slangasekSpamapS: oh, I agree - and the test case is the one absolutely mandatory section18:25
SpamapSThe description is often "It 'sploded when I poked it"18:25
slangasekthe regression potential section, there was concern that having the uploader write this may often not be useful18:26
SpamapSImpact is clear, users affected by this will be in state X until the fix is made.18:26
SpamapSReally? I think thats the most useful field for me during SRU review.18:26
slangasekright - AIUI the agreement was that we would require clear bug descriptions, but not enforce an "impact" header18:26
SpamapSIt helps me evaluate that the uploader actually understood the diff18:27
slangasekso you find good [regression potential] sections being written?18:27
SpamapSslangasek: basically I don't want to have to understand *everything* about the package before I evaluate the diff .. all of those fields give me an idea of what the uploader is thinking.18:27
slangasekanyway, we're not proposing to drop that one18:28
slangasekmerely clarifying the language to say that the *purpose* of the section is to give guidance for testers18:28
SpamapSIts also about making the uploader stop and think about it.18:28
SpamapSIf I stopped and started writing regression potential "Well I'm not really sure how many things use this API call but probably not many" .. I'd feel like an idiot and go figure out how many things make that call.18:29
slangasekI just think we get better results if we frame the question in terms of what areas should be focused on for regression-testing18:29
slangasekI've certainly seen SRUs where people claimed "regression potential: none"18:29
SpamapShah yeah18:29
SpamapSso did nobody get my message to ubuntu-devel where I said I'm going to start holding people to these fields?18:30
SpamapSbecause that was like, 2 weeks ago and I basically said "I'm going to hold people to the standard that was mostly thrown away at UDS" ;)18:30
SpamapShm I don't see it in the archives18:31
slangasekanyway, I think the net outcome here is that we should get better SRUs, by a combination of enforcing the requirements up front and trimming the fat from these requirements to focus on the things that aren't just paper-pushing (i.e., development fix/stable fix)18:31
SpamapSmaybe it got eaten18:31
slangasekheh, apparently not ;)18:31
slangasekare you ok with dropping the development/stable fix sections?  I don't think it adds anything at all to have people write this up18:32
slangasekinstead of having bug tasks18:32
SpamapSI am ok with folding them into one thing.18:34
slangasekwhy should there be a thing for it at all?18:34
SpamapSI'd still like for the bug to state clearly "The intended fix is X"18:34
SpamapSso if the patch does something else, I can quickly reject and move on. ;)18:34
slangasekthis hasn't been enforced in practice because there's not a consensus in the SRU team that this is useful18:34
slangasekI think we do have consensus that the other sections are useful18:35
SpamapSBasically, I think we need to crowd-source a lot of the "orienting yourself around the fix", rather than making the SRU team members grok every bit of every patch18:36
SpamapSYes I *can* understand a debdiff without any of those fields18:36
SpamapSand I can sit and think about the regression potential18:36
SpamapSand even figure out a test case on my own18:36
SpamapSbut there aren't many of us18:36
SpamapSslangasek: I wasn't available for the discussion, so I defer to those who hashed it out. I'm fine with the changes, but I think it will put a tiny bit of extra burden on the SRU team that is not necessary.18:38
slangasekdropping the 'regression potential' field is not on the table18:38
slangasekSpamapS: well, those who were in the room felt that this will *remove* burden from the SRU team compared to where we are today, because of the poor enforcement of the requirements to date... so I'm hoping to prove you wrong and show that we've found a good balance :)18:39
SpamapSslangasek: indeed, I think the only thing that actually needed to happen was just to enforce more.. but removing fields is fine18:53
=== mbiebl_ is now known as mbiebl
vsingh165anyone here know how to branch to source without using bazaar?  I'm trying to fix a bug in Nautilus (#822993 in Launchpad), and bazaar is not grabbing the latest source (it's many versions behind).19:04
vsingh165I'm quite new to all this packaging stuff.19:04
jtaylorapt-get source nautilus?19:05
jtayloror if for a different distro, pull-lp-source package distro19:05
vsingh165I'm working on precise...is there a way to force bazaar to get the latest source?19:06
jtaylorwhat are you currently trying?19:06
jtaylorbzr branch lp:ubuntu/nautilus should get the newest source19:06
vsingh165I'm trying just a simple bzr branch ubuntu:nautilus19:07
vsingh165but it's saying that it's out of date19:07
micahgvsingh165: http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/nautilus.html#2012-02-17%2010:22:13.70108419:08
vsingh165micahg:  yes,  I saw that earlier and didn't know what to make of it.  I kind of wish there were non-bazaar bug fixing instructions on the wiki.19:08
micahganyways, that's not the canonical branch for nautilus, it's https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/nautilus/ubuntu19:09
vsingh165jtaylor: it's still fetching out of date.19:09
micahgvsingh165: you want debcheckout nautilus19:10
* micahg wonders if that would DTRT even though19:10
vsingh165micahg:  so now I just use the ubuntu-desktop:nautilus branch?19:11
* micahg has no idea if that'll work, but that's the branch for quantal19:11
vsingh165hmm let me try it.19:11
vsingh165that's not what I wanted...now I don't see any of the source files I got earlier using ubuntu:nautilus branch.19:14
vsingh165I wonder if I could just debcheckout and somehow add a diff to a bug.19:16
keesstgraber: ah! good catch, I'll fix that.19:20
stgraberkees: thanks19:21
* kees wonders if it should dep on binutils or build-essential19:21
stgraberkees: well, for hardening-check I don't see a reason to have the rest of build-essential, though maybe there are other tools in there that do require build-essential19:23
keeshardening-check itself should be just the compilers. hardening-includes ... yeah, just binutils. cool. Will upload to unstable.19:23
seb128slangasek, SpamapS: reading the backlog, I would welcome one of you explain me what "regression potential" is supposed to be ... I basically use it as "it's a gtk upload, it can virtually break your entire desktop if the lib is broken"19:25
seb128slangasek, SpamapS: but I'm not sure it's an useful info in a SRU with 3 patches backported19:26
jdstrandjames_w: hi! can you mark https://code.launchpad.net/~jtaylor/ubuntu/precise/python-tornado/CVE-2012-2374/+merge/106863 as done? (the fix was in a security update last week)19:35
ubottuCRLF injection vulnerability in the tornado.web.RequestHandler.set_header function in Tornado before 2.2.1 allows remote attackers to inject arbitrary HTTP headers and conduct HTTP response splitting attacks via crafted input. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2012-2374)19:35
jtaylordone ^19:38
slangasekseb128: what's most helpful is some analysis of what kinds of problems are likely to occur if there *is* a bug in the patch19:43
jdstrandjtaylor: thanks19:44
=== jimm is now known as Guest24074
bdmurrayslangasek: does this seem right for an re regarding update-grub failures?19:53
bdmurrayug_failure = 'User postinst hook script \[(/usr)?/sbin/updaate-grub\] exited with value [1-9]+'19:53
hallynhey - i'm looking at bug 994212 . users who don't use /etc/network/interfaces have autofs failing to start, bc it starts on runlevel [2345].  Do we call that abuse, or is there a way to work around it?19:54
sorenbdmurray: "updaate"19:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 994212 in autofs5 (Ubuntu) "ldap fails to start when /etc/network/interfaces not used" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99421219:54
bdmurraysoren: thanks fixed when testing but not in code - odh19:54
hallynis static-network-up emitted when networkmanager starts up a nic?  (i assume not)19:55
hallynjodh: ^19:55
stgraberhallyn: no19:55
stgraberhallyn: with NM static-network-up is emitted when the loopback interface is up IIRC19:55
hallynis anything?19:55
sorenhallyn: Yes.19:56
sorenhallyn: NetworkManager calls /etc/network/if-up.d/*19:57
sorenhallyn: See /etc/NetworkManager/dispatcher.d/01ifupdown19:57
stgraberhallyn: basically any time an ifup call is made, the ifupdown upstart script checks whether all "auto" interfaces defined in /etc/network/interfaces are up, if they are, then it sends static-network-up19:57
stgraberon a desktop system, the only interface you have in /etc/network/interfaces is the loopback interface, so as soon as the loopback is brought up, you should get static-network-up19:57
slangasekbdmurray: it won't match any failures when update-grub is triggered from the old /etc/kernel-pkg.conf, but that should never happen nowadays; it also won't catch cases of update-grub invocations from other maintainer scripts; but if there are any of those they're probably in the minority19:58
stgrabercjwatson: I'm told we're some interesting things in the TB mailing list queue, can you let them through?19:58
hallynI dunno, maybe the bug is just that automount should adapt to a nics-go-up-and-down world19:59
hallynsoren: thanks, I guess I knew the base net-device-up, but was looking for a 'default route is up' signal20:00
bdmurrayslangasek: ah, postrm makes sense too20:00
hallynbut really that doesn't seem like the right fix anyway20:00
hallyndo we have anyone babysitting automount?20:00
slangasekhallyn: well, provided that the bug isn't that the system is configured with user-level NM profiles (in which case you might have a circular dependency), yeah, it's probably autofs's problem20:00
slangasekwe do not20:00
slangasekbdmurray: ah, sure20:01
hallynok, thanks20:03
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
bdmurraypitti: to be fair regarding apport and precise -proposed I think I fixed it and then reported the bug for precise20:19
nemohttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/795038/comments/10 - "integrated menus in the titlebar"  - does that actually exist in 12.04 ?20:20
cjwatsonstgraber: just the one after I'd ditched MP spam and actual spam, but yeah, moderated20:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 795038 in unity (Ubuntu) "Using GIMP in Unity is troublesome & unintuitive " [Low,Invalid]20:20
larsduesingjamespage: may I ask you for help with merging aiccu from debian-sid to ubuntu-quantal?20:20
jamespagelarsduesing, sure20:21
larsduesingI tried it word for word after documentation: https://code.launchpad.net/~lars.duesing/ubuntu/quantal/aiccu/aiccu-sid-merge/+merge/10782320:21
larsduesingbut: in the ubuntu-bzr there are many file in directory .pc - which I do not think should be there...20:22
larsduesing(and merge killed them...)20:22
cjwatsonpresence of .pc is correct20:23
cjwatson(modulo design disagreements; but it's the intended behaviour right now)20:23
larsduesingso my merge is incorrect?20:24
cjwatsonif you deleted .pc, then yes it is20:24
larsduesingI did not20:24
larsduesingbut bzr merge did20:24
larsduesingi did bzr merge debianlp:sid/aiccu20:25
geser.pc/ is created/used by quilt20:25
cjwatsonok, I'm not going to look this up on my phone.  but the intended invariant is that the bzr branch should match the result of creating a source package from that branch and then unpacking it (dpkg-source -x) somewhere else, including dotfiles, possibly excluding .bzr* differences20:26
larsduesingcjwatson: nobody asks you for wonders :-)20:26
jamespagelarsduesing, if you apply all the quilt patches and add the .pc folder to bzr it should be OK20:26
dobeybzr merge removing the .pc makes sense to me20:27
cjwatsonif it's a 3.0 (quilt) format package then it's possible you'll have to quilt push -a after the merge20:27
jamespageI think that when you bzr merge it unapplies the patches20:27
jamespagebut does not re-apply them20:27
jamespageah - I see we all think the same20:27
cjwatsondobey: I am aware that there are design disagreements here, but that's not helpful20:27
dobeycjwatson: i'm not arguing about the design disagreement issues :)20:27
larsduesingSo the bzr-branches are fully patched.. *learn*20:28
dobeycjwatson: i think the patches get unapplied when merging in bzr, as jamespage said20:28
cjwatsonit's a bug that bzr merge doesn't put the branch back into a state where you can commit something that can validly be merged20:28
larsduesingok, so I kill that branch20:28
larsduesingdo another merge20:28
larsduesingand qult push -a20:28
dobeycjwatson: but it does, unless it also deletes the patches themselves, which as i understand, it does not20:28
slangaseklarsduesing: 'bzr merge' unapplies patches; you then need to 'QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches quilt push -a'20:28
larsduesingand then bzr push20:28
slangasekthen bzr add .pc/* .pc/*/*20:28
cjwatsonmy understanding of jelmer's changes was that they were supposed to cause merge to leave things as it found them20:28
jamespagelarsduesing, I think that if you just apply the patches in the current branch and then re-push it will be OK20:29
slangasek(this is unfortunate and something to fix for this cycle)20:29
cjwatsoni.e. unapplied if that's how things started, applied if that's how things started20:29
larsduesingGuys, I didn't want creating religious wars :-)20:29
cjwatsonif it's not doing so, I think that's a bug, because it's misleading people20:29
slangasekI don't think there's any religious war here, just vehement agreement that there's a bug20:30
cjwatsonthe intent of that set of changes was to *reduce* confusion ...20:30
jelmercjwatson: that is intention, if it doesn't do so that's definitely a bug20:30
jelmerI'd love to hear more about it :)20:30
larsduesingFine, who's filing a bug against quilt, bzr or whatever is the bad guy? *g*20:30
cjwatsonjelmer: maybe larsduesing can provide you with a test case then :)20:31
dobeyjelmer: would the merge then fail, if the patches failed to apply against the newly merged changes?20:31
slangasekjelmer: right, there's definitely a bug then, because 'bzr merge' always leaves the quilt patches unapplied20:31
slangasekand then if you apply them by hand, it shows the .pc files from :other as removed + added :(20:31
cjwatsondobey: that's a conflict of some kind, surely - at least logically20:31
larsduesingif I would be an author, I should write a book "learing ubuntu-devel - pitfalls and super community" or such :)20:33
* micahg would think that would make a nice appendix to the packaging guide20:34
dobeycjwatson: perhaps, but the workflow introduced, or rather, enforced, by such a behavior, doesn't seem logical to me. :)20:34
larsduesingAhem, short questionaire: Anybody wants this merge as test-case?20:35
cjwatsondobey: given the on-disk format is quilt, I'm pretty sure I'd want it to stop and let me walk my way up the stack, whether that be presented in terms of raw quilt operations (which I'm quite happy with personally) or bzr looms or whatever20:35
larsduesingIf not, I will do re-push with quilt in the same bzr-tree20:35
jdstrand@pilot out20:35
=== udevbot_ changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive open | Dev' of Ubuntu (not support or app devel) | build failures -> http://bit.ly/HaWdtw | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for hardy -> precise | #ubuntu-app-devel for app development on Ubuntu http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://bit.ly/lv8soi | Patch Pilots:
cjwatsonlarsduesing: you don't lose the test case - just remember the URLs and revision numbers of the branch you started with and the branch you attempted to merge in20:36
cjwatsonthe test case doesn't get invalidated by pushing more revision on top20:36
larsduesingah, yes... there was some sense for a versioning system *head->desk*20:36
dobeys/remember/stick in the bug report/ :)20:37
larsduesingdobey: Whoever does this report - I don't think I'm deep enough in the problematic parts here :)20:38
xnoxslangasek: cjwatson: larsduesing: my favourite bug in the new handling is 1.0 packages with quilt patches - bug 99958620:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 999586 in bzr-builddeb "should not do any quilt patching for 1.0 source format" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/99958620:40
dobeylarsduesing: well surely you can file a bug report about the problem you're seeing. you don't need to explain the deep technical parts or where the problem is exactly in code20:40
dobeylarsduesing: you can file a bug against udd and just say "The patches are unapplied, but not reapplied, when i merge branch X into a local copy of branch Y."20:41
larsduesingdobey: My problem begins at against which package should I file a bug? quilt? bzr? bzr-builddeb?20:41
jelmerlarsduesing: bzr-builddeb20:42
dobeyah ok, that works. i was going to say udd :)20:42
cjwatsonubuntu distributed development20:43
cjwatsonbut jelmer's authoritative here20:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 616791 in bzr-builddeb (Ubuntu) "merge mode should automatically apply patches for 3.0 (quilt) sources" [Medium,Fix released]20:44
hallynI suppose a hacky way to fix the automount bug woudl be to just make it 'start on runlevel [2345] or net-device-up', so it quietly restarts if it failed at runlevel 220:44
larsduesingbug filed:20:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1006611 in bzr-builddeb "quilt patches are not reapplied after merge with debian" [Undecided,New]20:54
larsduesingit keeps telling review diff without .pc - but branch is with21:03
cjohnstonpitti: we are able to go back to hourly status updates21:12
cjohnstonskaet: ^21:13
larsduesingso, going to bed... <6 hours of sleep in front of me... Good night everyone, and thanks!21:20
cyphermoxlarsduesing: will review aiccu later on (or tomorrow morning my time), unless somebody beats me to it21:22
davidmay i speak with an ubuntu devoloper?21:24
larsduesingcyphermox: take your time... thanks21:24
larsduesingdavid: what's your problem? Here are divisions of developers :)21:24
davidi am a visually impared user trying to use ubuntu 12.0421:25
davidmy problem is that the orca screen reader and magnifyer  is really no good21:26
davidi was wondering if their was an easy way to get compiz enhanced zoom desktop to work in unity21:26
=== salem_ is now known as _salem
larsduesingdavid: A quick look says to me, in 12.04 this problem should be already fixed...21:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 684925 in compiz-fusion-plugins-main (Ubuntu) "remove Super + scroll shortcut in enhanced zoom" [Undecided,Fix released]21:30
davidthanks but i was wondering if maybe compiz config settings manager could be intigrated with ubuntu 12.10 or something21:31
davidthat way users like me would not have to go through a lot of trouble trying to get it working21:32
cyphermoxdavid: I think you might to be filing bugs for each specific issue you're encountering, though I suspect that might be difficult21:32
cyphermoxdavid: ccsm is evil, we explicitly want to avoid pointing people to it, because it's so easy to break your system with it21:32
larsduesing<- night :-)21:33
davidum okay could ubuntu incorperate something like zoom desktop somewhere?21:34
cyphermoxdavid: that would be something to bring up as a bug report ;)21:34
cyphermoxdavid: or you might want to talk to TheMuso who knows a lot more about accessibility than I do; but I'm not sure if he's around just yet.21:34
davidi don't know how to file bug reports without an application crashing21:34
cyphermoxdavid: 'ubuntu-bug unity' or 'ubuntu-bug compiz' for this type of thing, I guess21:35
* cyphermox has to log off21:35
davidi'm even considering trying to call canonical about it21:36
davidi'm currently running mint for the accessibility issues i've mentioned21:37
davidreally the only accessibility linux has is the gnome 3 magnifyer orca(sucks) and ccsm enhanced zoom desktop21:41
Davieydavid: I'd suggest not calling canonical.. but the desktop manager would no doubt love to hear your feedback, jasoncwarner_ :)21:44
davidwhere could i find him21:45
Davieydavid: #ubuntu-desktop is probably best21:47
davidk thanks21:47
barrydobey: still around?21:54
=== david is now known as techman246
=== highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage
=== jbicha_ is now known as jbicha

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