AlanBellhome at last00:15
penguin42from anywhere exciting?00:20
astromechmorning everyone ! :)06:29
=== astromech is now known as Knightwise
Knightwisemorning ! :)06:39
Knightwisehey alan_g06:49
brobostigongood morning eveyone.07:19
Knightwisehey brobostigon ! hey MartijnVdS !07:29
Knightwisehow are you doing07:29
brobostigonhey Knightwise07:31
brobostigonhey MartijnVdS07:31
Knightwisewill be doing an interesting topic on this weeks podcast07:33
Knightwise Ubuntu on a G4 imac07:33
Knightwisestill working through some issues though07:34
Knightwiselets say an app isn't compiled for ppc07:34
Knightwise(like for example flash and stuff)07:35
Knightwisecan you compile it from source code ?07:35
diploMorning all07:35
Knightwisehey diplo07:35
matttmorning morning07:36
Knightwisehey matt07:50
Knightwisequestion : just to get things straight for my podcast07:50
Knightwisewhen you have the sourcecode of an app , you can just compile it for whatever distro you are using .. right ?07:51
Knightwisebut does that also mean that you can compile it for any processor ?07:51
Knightwisereason i'm asking is : if i run Linux on my PPC Imac07:51
Knightwiseand i want to run chromium .. there is no port for chromium07:51
Knightwiseis it possible for me to compile it from source ?07:52
brobostigonyes, Knightwise07:54
MartijnVdSKnightwise: if it's written properly, it shuold work07:55
brobostigonKnightwise: as for flash, you will have to use gnash, or similer, as adobe dont release the source.07:55
Knightwisethanx brobostigon , MartijnVdS07:57
MartijnVdSbut if they use in-line assembler, or other processor-specific tricks (or bugs!), you're out of luck (unless you know the bugs/features and can work around them)07:58
Knightwisei'll go and try Gnash and anyone have any good alternatives to chromeium ?07:58
Knightwise(i have firefox 11 on it btw)07:58
Knightwiseits a lubuntu 12.04 install07:58
MartijnVdSKnightwise: why not just use chromium?07:59
brobostigonKnightwise: i think there is a powerpc build of chromium in debian, so you might be able to get some help there.07:59
Knightwiseaha , that sounds interesting.08:01
brobostigonKnightwise: i just checked, and there is. so you maybe able to import it.08:01
Knightwiseaha :) so there is a ppc deb for chromium08:03
Knightwisemight take a look at that.08:03
Knightwisebe back in a sec08:03
hoovermorning all08:14
AlanBellmorning all08:17
SuperEngineerjust announced: sounds like Julian Assange extradition to go ahead08:22
MooDoomorning all08:24
brobostigonmorning MooDoo08:24
kvarleySuperEngineer: It's a weird situation. If he hadn't had the incident with those women then he'd have been fine. He was moving into the media too much tho, when somebody does that stuff they should be off the radar at all times.08:26
SuperEngineeragreed  -- but -- but so should the CIA08:28
kvarleySuperEngineer: Lol true08:29
gordneat, new nvidia driver with xrandr support seems to work well08:38
arsenso, lets say my new work environment has been using SLED for the last two years (for dev/sysadminning), what arguements can i make to push them back to ubuntu?:)08:41
=== schwuk_away is now known as schwuk
kirrusSomething is setting off a 'doorchime' sound on my computer, and I can't trace it. Any ideas?08:55
kirrusThe sound centre isn't giving any help at all. I've excluded thunderbird, pidgin, any sound notification (I killed the binary)08:56
* kirrus wonders if someone is pranking him08:56
MartijnVdSkirrus: "door chime" sound?09:03
MartijnVdSkirrus: transmission finishing a download?09:03
MartijnVdSsystem bell? (check sound preferences -- it has options for "Glass" and "Sonar" etc.)09:04
shaunoin the scary old days, I used to chase such faults by pulling the soundcard out, and then looking to see which processes were stuck when the kernel started spewing DMA timeouts all over the screen09:05
stuphikirrus: That normally happens to me when the mess on my desk overflows onto the keyboard.09:05
shauno(not recommended, just feeling old)09:05
kirrusstuphi: hehe, yeah, not quite that bad ;)09:09
kirrusMartijnVdS: don't run transmission! :/09:09
kirrusshauno: *wishes that still worked*09:09
shaunoI'm not sure it should have worked in the first place.  they were never designed to be hot-swappable :)09:10
MartijnVdSkirrus: keep the sound preferences window open on the "connected clients" list09:11
kirrusDidn't change when it played :(09:11
MartijnVdSis it your PC playing it then?09:12
MartijnVdSsome flash page in the background somewhere?09:12
kirrusAye, these don't have speakers, this is the only one attached to some speakers09:12
kirrusNo, not as far as I can tell09:12
MartijnVdSkirrus: does turning the volume up/down work?09:17
kirrusMartijnVdS: not tried that yet.. the chime is short enough I can't get my hands to the right place on the keyboard fast enough. I might try turning it down this evening once I can09:18
AlanBellkirrus: have you tried answering the door ;)09:20
kirrusAlanBell: :P09:24
MartijnVdSkirrus: no turn down the volume to minimum, wait.. then turn up to maximum, wait09:28
davmor2morning all10:00
DJonesdirecthex: Congratulations10:11
* davmor2 feels like he missed out on the start of this conversation, DJones, directhex why are you being congratulate10:24
DJonesdavmor2: From twitter http://hasflisshadthebabyyet.apebox.org/10:25
davmor2DJones: nice10:26
davmor2directhex: Congats dude10:26
DJonesI guess that will mean mono developent will be postboned for the foreseeable future10:27
davmor2DJones: next 18 years :D10:28
JamesTaitMorning all! :)10:33
davmor2czajkowski: prod10:36
czajkowskidavmor2: ello how be you10:37
davmor2czajkowski: I be tired, how be you10:37
matttinstalling 12.04 on my desktop at work ...10:45
* mattt holds onto his butts10:45
czajkowskidavmor2: good, busy but good10:46
SuperMattmattt: I'm sure you know it's not going to be a problem. 12.04 is just awesome.10:48
Nafalloyay! HSBC fast balance finally available on android.10:49
czajkowskiNafallo: howdy10:49
matttSuperMatt: to be fair, i mainly use my macbook :P10:50
matttbut i'm still excited10:50
SuperMattI'm looking forward to the quantal alpha :D10:56
SuperMattFor some reason, I enjoy living on the edge10:57
=== imexil1 is now known as imexil
oimonargh once signing into g+ chat, now i see g+ contacts in pidgin . anyone km11:08
oimonknow how to fix?11:08
gordi'm confused, why would you sign in to google+ chat if you didn't want to see the google+ contacts?11:10
oimoni wanted to start a hangout with my missis. now i get notifications everytime popey signs in11:10
gordso remove your gtalk account from pidgin?11:11
popeyor disable notifications11:11
AlanBellor unfriend popey11:11
oimoni only want to see my gmail talk contacts rather than g+ contacts in my list11:11
AlanBellit does sound more like a feature than a bug11:12
popeyyou can disable that in G+11:12
AlanBellI found a heap of google chat things on my android client the other day, people have been inviting me to stuff since oggcamp and I never knew it was happening11:12
gord"This email was sent to gordsemail@gmail.com because you indicated that you want to receive news regarding Google Analytics integration with other Google products. If you do not wish to receive such emails in the future, please unsubscribe here: {% optout analytics promotion %} " uh...11:13
oimonpopey, ah yes, i just found the custom list11:13
AlanBellI don't really know how the android messenger thing ties in with the google plus desktop interface11:14
oimoni use g+ as a twitter replacement. however since i accidentally updated the g+ app on my tablet i'm not sure i want to anymore11:14
oimonit's hideous11:14
AlanBellit is dreadful now11:14
oimonforutnately my phone is pinned on the old version11:14
popeyi like it11:15
oimoni'd go as far to say that it's broken and doesn't work11:15
gordi found it a bit crampt on my phones fairly small by modern standards resolution11:16
oimonsmall icons and pics in posts end up being massive and obliterate the text11:16
AlanBellit is kind of clever that they put the pictures behind the text and mostly it stays readable11:16
AlanBellyou only get two things on screen really now11:21
AlanBelltwitter gets about 5 tweets11:21
oimonit looks hideous on a tablet11:21
oimonthe webpage still looks ok11:22
AlanBellirssi in screen gets about 25 lines of stuff11:22
popeyeverything looks hideous on an android tablet ☺11:22
AlanBellplus highlights and channel list11:22
AlanBellpopey: well do hurry up with the ubuntu tablets then :)11:22
popeyroger roger11:23
dauberswhats the vector victor?11:23
gordwhat's the frequency Kenneth?11:23
oimonthis bug made me switch to gnome classic.need to wait till weekend to actually raise the bug in launchpad though :( http://askubuntu.com/questions/129265/nx-session-window-icon-shrinks-and-is-non-responsive-but-remote-session-still-a11:24
davmor2gord: mrevell: you both coming tomorrow?11:31
gordlots of stuff to do, so doubtful unless i get i make a good dent in it all today11:37
czajkowskioimon: why do you have to wait til the weekend?11:58
oimonczajkowski, i'm running windows on my laptop to work on an issue all week and can't reboot into linux to give screenshots/steps to repeat11:59
oimonbtw how was flossie12:00
czajkowskigood thanks12:00
Knightwisepompom pom12:18
matttnote to self, don't eat dodgy fish burger+chips for lunch12:35
* hamitron scratches head13:11
hamitrongftp transfers at 22KB/s using ssh, scp transfers at 140KB/s13:13
oimonhas anyone ever done a wee into a bottle while at the desk on a long conf call?13:13
oimontempted right now13:13
hamitrondone it into an empty bottle of cider13:14
hamitronbut not what you say13:14
oimoni bought a £120k setup and getting 1mb/s read speed13:14
oimonwas hoping for more like 500MB/s13:15
hamitronover ssh?13:15
oimonno, direct attached13:15
hamitronk :/13:15
oimonrunning vmware on a blade13:15
oimonconnected to SAN13:16
oimonsomething's broke but we don't know what13:16
hamitronwell, I've given up with vmware again13:17
diploAfter guys, anyone know much about MariaDB, esepecially licensing ?13:17
hamitronbut that is only workstation13:17
daubersoimon: Is it quicker on the host (rather than in the VM guest)13:18
AlanBelldiplo: it is GPL and works like mysql13:20
oimondaubers, yes13:20
diploIt's just my colleagues in Nottingham believe there is an issue with MySQL and C++ licensing that prevents us using mysql13:21
oimonif i live boot from an iso , hdparm gives OK speeds13:21
diploatm we are using SQLite but it doesn't suit, can't find any info whether it's exactly same license for mariadb for the c++ issues13:21
oimonmaybe a multipathing driver issue in esxi13:21
jpdsdiplo: Install Postgres?13:21
* daubers excessivley dislikes SANs13:22
diploheh, that is the other option jpds, I just suggested MariaDB as it means no massive code changes13:22
AlanBelldiplo: there might be problems with mysql as oracle are going to interpret grey areas to their advantage13:22
diploGuessing it's related to this, the guys up north looked into it more than I have in the last 10  minutes13:22
diploMySQL before 5.1.55 also had the same FLOSS exception for the C client libraries, but the exception file and all references to it were removed by Oracle in MySQL
diploHmm so it defo seems to be the client connection part13:24
diploI *hate* licensing!13:24
diploOK, so still screwed with mariadb13:26
kvarleyIs there a way to clone an SD Card with dd but in a way that the output of the device is half the size of the actual card? For example my SD card is 512 MB but the content on there only actually fills 128MB, is there a way to clone the partitions but with a smaller cylinder size?13:29
MartijnVdSkvarley: is this for raspberry pi?13:31
kvarleyMartijnVdS: Yes13:31
MartijnVdSkvarley: then you can make the partitions on the "target" card yourself using fdisk or gparted (1x FAT, 1x EXT4, optional: 1x swap)13:32
MartijnVdSkvarley: then copy the contents over by mounting both ext4 partitions (source and target) and rsyncing everything over13:32
MartijnVdSI think13:32
=== dgjones is now known as DJones
kvarleyMartijnVdS: I wanted to clone my 512MB card to an image but resize of partition sizes within the image so that people could write the image to a 256 MB card13:32
hamitroncan't you create a blank image, copy the files to it, then write the boot sectors?13:35
hamitronyou'd need to format the blank image first too ofc13:35
kvarleyhamitron: Hadn't thought of that. That may just work, what tool do you recommend for writing boot sectors? Or would it work if I mounted the image as a loop and then used parted to make partitions?13:36
hamitronwell, I'd use dd for copying the raw boot sector13:36
kvarleyhamitron: Gonna use dd to make a blank image then go from there. I'll let you know how I get on - thanks for the help =]13:37
hamitronI just recall, been able to grab the first so many bytes from a drive using dd, but sure how many and if I'm even talking sense13:38
hamitrongoogle will know no doubt13:38
popeyooh, reminds me, my 2nd raspberry pi is out for delivery13:39
popeyi should keep an ear out13:39
gordso good you needed another one?13:39
kvarleyEverybody needs at least 2 Pis13:39
kvarleyOne stable, one to mess with13:39
popey3rd should get here next week13:39
gordnot sure what i could actually use a pi for13:39
hamitronkvarley, http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-copy-mbr/13:39
kvarleypopey: You got XBMC running on it yet?13:39
kvarleyhamitron: Thanks13:40
gordapart from maaaybe replacing my revos, but i'm in no hurry to do that13:40
kvarleypopey: It's surprisingly good13:40
hamitroncan't you just have 2 memory cards, to swap with 1 r-pi?13:40
hamitronI've registered my interest for my first r-pi now \o/13:41
kvarleyWhat are /dev/sdb /dev/sdc called?13:42
hamitronthey are files, representing drives13:42
kvarleyWondered if they have a specific name so I can search for how to mount an unformatted img file as one13:43
popeykvarley: what are you trying to do?13:47
popeymake an sd card for a pi?13:48
kvarleyhamitron: Thanks, got it mounted now13:48
kvarleypopey: Making a bootable image for redistribution13:48
kvarleyhamitron: Had to format the .img file first "mkfs.msdos imagefile.img"13:48
popeykvarley: containing what?13:49
diplopopey: How well does xbmc run then? I was up to buy one to get it for media box for my boys room, but failed to order and thought i'd wait out to see what improvements came over the following months before i actually ordered13:49
kvarleypopey: A OpenELEC (XBMC)13:49
hamitronis the MBR used on the SD card with the r-pi, like a "normal" PC uses it?13:50
kvarleydiplo: Menus still need a little tweaking. Can play 1080p x264 videos no problems tho. As the menus get fully rendered by the GPU it'll free up the CPU to run programs and add-ons in the background13:50
kvarleydiplo: For the price it makes a damn swish media centre13:50
diploCool, sold still then,,, mates turned up yesterday so going to try it out.13:51
diploI'd love one for the boys and my room, have a revo in the front room with xbmc already13:51
hamitronsurely the revo will kick its butt?13:51
diploAny recommendations on imgs to load for XBMC ?13:51
popeyhamitron: at what?13:51
kvarleyhamitron: No MBR, just a "start.elf" file in a partition which is marked with flags boot and lba13:51
diploYes, but that's in the front room and £150+, I want one for the two other rooms13:51
kvarleydiplo: I'm making one now13:51
diploah right, making some improvements ?13:52
hamitronpopey, poowwwwwwwwwwwwer ;)13:52
popeypi is lower power :p13:52
kvarleydiplo: Oh, sorry thought you literally meant .img. I'm making a .img of OpenELEC. OpenELEC is a lightweight linux distro which specifically runs and targets the RPi - it's the best I've tried so far for running XBMC.13:52
hamitronoh, energy wise yeh13:52
diploah, just read up about openelec, can't say I've seen it before13:53
hamitronbut comeon..... atom vs arm13:53
gordfor xbmc, all you need is enough power to play 1080p content13:53
popeyare you trolling?13:53
diplohamitron: It's GPU based though mainly13:53
popeywhat he said13:53
gordyou don't need lots of power, just enough13:53
gordthe new revos are stupid powerful though, the black ones have a geforce 210 variant in them13:53
diploWill tell him to use OpenElec kvarley thanks, glad I ordered these monitors @ work with hdmi sockets :D13:54
hamitronso the revo is more powerful, can do more things13:54
hamitronis all I'm saying13:54
popeyif you only want it to do one thing, no need13:54
hamitronnot trolling..... today13:54
gordvdpau has broken on my precice xbmc install, so i had to drop it down to using software decoding, it actually only hits one core and gets smooth playback at 1080p... i'm mostly putting it down to the new nvidia drivers though, xrandr means xbmc can switch the refresh rate down to 24hz13:55
diploTried the XBMC official release gord ? Or you run normal precise and ppa ?13:56
gordnormal precice and ubuntu xbmc13:56
gordits in the repos now13:56
gordwhich is nice because it uses system installed ffmpeg, so i get 10bit decoding support in eden13:56
diplooh right13:56
diploTime to upgrade for me then!13:57
diploI'm running Eden but on 9.04 or 9.10, can't remember13:57
* hamitron is loving 12.0413:58
kvarleydiplo: http://kvarley.co.uk/RaspberryPi/OpenELEC/13:58
* popey falls over13:58
popeykvarley: is that a tarball or what?13:58
kvarleypopey: tarballs on there at the moment13:59
kvarleypopey: Image coming when I get it done13:59
kvarleypopey: I can give you a shout when it's up if you want?13:59
popeypro-tip, put it in your ubuntu one folder, and share it13:59
popeythen you get an ubuntu-one url rather than a manky mediafire one :D13:59
hamitronis ubuntu one good then?13:59
kvarleypopey: Ok =]14:00
AlanBellbetter than those popup sites14:00
hamitronI sorta removed the icon :/14:00
gordyou can also use dropbox or whatever if you prefer ;)14:00
hamitronwith all these terms and conditions, it gets confusing14:01
davmor2hamitron: U1 is perfect for me14:01
hamitrontempted to just go back to basics14:01
hamitronis it 5GB or 20GB storage?14:02
AlanBellU1 is good, but has problems with uploading lots of files at once (fix in progress I think)14:02
davmor2hamitron: you can access U1 via the messages indicator14:02
gord5GB free, 20GB pay pay for14:02
bubu\aany uk'ers here get xbmcflix working in UK on XBMC?14:03
AlanBellU1 seems quite a bit slower than dropbox14:04
diplobubu\a: Netflix on XBMC ?14:04
ali1234what happens if i hammer a free U1 account?14:04
bubu\adiplo, its called XBMCflix14:04
diploThought it was silverlight, so only way would be on a windows xbmc install14:05
diploNot seen that14:05
AlanBellali1234: then aquarius will have a sad face14:05
bubu\ayeah needs windows install14:05
ali1234like by using it to host all the images on my 2M hits per hour blog, for example14:05
bubu\aonly reason I switched from xbmc live to XBMC ontop of win714:05
bubu\aand there is no UK API for it :(14:05
gordit probably explicitly crawls the us site14:05
aquariusali1234, depends on your definition of the word "hammer". At the moment, we do not restrict how many times a published file is downloaded.14:05
ali1234aquarius: well, i defined it ^14:06
aquariusI do not believe that you have a blog which is hit two million times an hour. :)14:06
aquarius*youtube* only gets about 70 times that much :)14:07
hamitronall these free services have turned me into a right tight git14:09
hamitronbegrudge paying anything these days ;)14:10
=== Idiot is now known as Guest53211
aquariushamitron, U1's pretty nice, although obviously I would say that. Paying for a service is, in my opinion, a good idea, because I read http://blog.pinboard.in/2011/12/don_t_be_a_free_user/ and agreed with it, and it changed my view on how I use stuff (honestly unconnected with how I work on a service which I'd like people to pay for, although I can see why you wouldn't believe me on that :)14:16
hamitronI believe in paying for a service, to get something decent and make it viable14:17
hamitronbut I also hate paying14:17
hamitronso end up with nothing \o/14:17
aquariusMac question: mate of mine has a macbook and wants to try Ubuntu. Should I suggest that he runs it on the metal with bootcamp, or in some sort of VM, and if so in which VM? He's an architect, so he'll be using OS X a lot -- this is not a one-step total-changeover migration, but I'd like him to try Ubuntu and see what he thinks, and he's interested in it aesthetically.14:17
ali1234it won't run properly in a VM14:18
ali1234gord will probably try to disagree but i don't care, unity needs better 3D support than VMs can provide14:18
hamitronI'll second what ali1234 said14:19
hamitronresizing windows just made it feel sluggish :/14:19
gordif only unity had a 2d mode?14:20
aquariusOK. But will everything else run properly *not* in a VM? Historically, as I understand it, we've not had great support for Mac hardware, and he's not a technical guy -- if it doesn't suspend properly or doesn't work with his TV properly or the sound doesn't work sometimes then it'll turn him off, and I'd like to impress here if I can.14:20
diplobubu\a: Didn't want to pay for a license so didnt go with windows ( Not got spare cash for win7 atm )14:20
ali1234i've got no idea, i don't use macs14:20
diploSo NetFlix don't get my cash14:20
aquariusali1234, neither do I, which is why I'm asking to see if anyone knows. :)14:20
ali1234there was a nice bug where it bricked some macs because of efi14:20
ali1234but that was fixed ages ago14:21
ali1234tbh i'm not really sure why anyone who actually likes OS X would want to switch to ubuntu14:22
diploAnyone recommend places that sell little units like these, want to compare some places14:22
aquariusali1234, well; he's seen Ubuntu and likes how it looks, and he's interested in trying something new -- he's not a technical person, but he enjoys technology if you see what I mean.14:23
ali1234well i can understand that, what with unity being largely copied from OS X14:23
ali1234it just doesn't really compare favourably if you've used both14:24
aquariusand he's got a strong aesthetic sense (architect, after all), so I want him to experience Ubuntu being beautiful -- because he's not technical, he's hardly heard of it at all, so he's not bringing all the baggage of "oh it's linux it doesn't work", "oh it's linux you have to compile your own kernel", and so on. I think this sort of person is just who we *want* to attract.14:24
aquariusali1234, that's what I want to test. If he uses Ubuntu and everything works perfectly and he still doesn't like it, then I shall say "fine, we're obviously not ready to go after that segment of the market".14:24
ali1234why would you want to use linux if you don't want to compile your own kernel?14:25
aquariusWhat I'd like to avoid is it *potentially* being great for him but him being let down because the sound doesn't work, or something equally annoying.14:25
hamitronperhaps boot from an external hdd?14:25
ali1234well the only way you will find that out is by trying it on his machine first before you let him use it14:25
hamitronif the livecd works ofc14:25
aquariusali1234, because it's beautiful and it does everything you want from a computer and the upgrades are free. That's why I use it.14:25
ali1234i thought you said you liked to pay for stuff?14:26
hamitronthat site aquarius linked said that didn't go for software, more for services14:27
aquariusIf the seller *wants* money, sure. The Ubuntu community don't *have* a way to pay for Ubuntu, because that's not what they want. They get money from sale of services around Ubuntu, which I am happy to pay -- I buy music, I'd pay for U1 if I didn't get it for nothing, I buy things from the shop.14:27
ali1234" If they won't do it, clone them and do it yourself.  Soon you'll be the only game in town! "14:28
aquariushamitron, exactly. The point of services is that more users costs the operator more money. The point of software is that that doesn't apply; doubling the number of Ubuntu users does not, at least in theory, double your cost to make Ubuntu.14:28
ali1234that's not actually true at all14:28
hamitronI still think a software project is best to have some form of income somehow, to fund support and development14:28
ali1234more users = more bug reports and support requests14:28
aquariusservices provided as part of Ubuntu I *do* pay for (or I would for those that I use if they weren't a company benefit).14:28
ali1234especially if said users are completely non-technical14:29
aquariushamitron, yep, which is why I donate, and why I support what Bryan Lunduke's doing right now.14:29
ali1234i stopped supporting family members windows computers for free. i just say "i dunno, i don't use windows"14:29
hamitrontbh, I'd feel happier if I had to pay for ubuntu14:29
ali1234if you make it so that they all want me to install ubuntu i will have to switch to *bsd14:29
diploaquarius: You tried any of Bryans software ?14:30
ali1234thing is it doesn't cost canonical anything to do this because they can just point to the support package but it costs the community who provide free support14:31
aquariushamitron, well, one good way to support Ubuntu is to become a paying user of Ubuntu One, of course. :)14:31
aquariusdiplo, I bought Linux Tycoon fairly recently. I haven't tried the development stuff (I'm happy with my own development environment :))14:31
hamitronI don't pay out for things, if others can get it for free14:31
hamitronif I'm paying £10, others can too14:32
aquariusothers *do* too... not sure I'm understanding you?14:32
diploheh, keep debate trying his DE, but haven't yet.. ought to get linux tycoon just to see what it's like and to support the guy, been watching there stuff for years14:32
hamitronaquarius, I don't see why some should contribute, when others don't14:33
hamitronand it just makes me feel "why bother?"14:33
diploOoh SpaceX Dragon due to depart tomorrow and splash down14:33
aquariushamitron, I am confused. No-one gets U1 for free (or everyone does, depending on your point of view). There's no them-and-us here?14:33
diploGot me interested in space again14:34
hamitronaquarius, I'm talking about ubuntu :)14:34
aquariushamitron, oh, right, gotcha. :)14:34
kvarleypopey: Got a working image14:35
hamitronif I want a service, sure I'll pay for it. but not getting a service to subsidise free software, that many just use for free14:35
kvarleypopey: Need to try and make it smaller, I want it to fit on a 256 MB card. Currently I don't think it will14:35
aquariushamitron, oh, definitely. I certainly don't think that you should think of buying U1 just to subsidise Ubuntu development! Buy U1 because you like U1. :)14:36
ali1234it seems counter productive to buy something i don't want in order to support something that i do want which is free14:36
hamitronali1234, exactly14:36
aquariusI don't think anyone's suggesting that you do that, are they? If I'm being misread as advocating that, then I'll rephrase. :)14:36
ali1234that goes for t-shirts, hats, and over priced memory sticks too14:36
aquariuspopey, do you have thoughts on the macbook Ubuntu-in-vm-versus-baremetal question? I know you've had some experience here :)14:37
aquariusali1234, I agree. What I bought from the canonical shop was notebooks, because I needed notebooks and I think our ones are really nice. :)14:37
popeyaquarius: ask gmb14:38
popeyi no longer have a MBP14:38
aquariuspopey, aha, wisdom -- yeah, I know you moved away, just wondering what your previous thoughts were :)14:38
aquariusgmb, ping!14:38
* hamitron congrats popey 14:38
popeyi still love the mbp, but only when it's running osx14:38
popeymy thoughts where i was never truly happy about it on the bare metal14:39
* hamitron withdraws his actions14:39
popeyskippy touchpad, crappy nvidia, poor battery life14:39
hamitronthey do look nice though14:39
popeythere's a lot to like14:39
aquariuspopey, k, that's my worry, indeed. Suggestions above are that Ubuntu doesn't work right in a VM either, so the implication here is that you're just shit out of luck if you've got an MBP and want to try Ubuntu, which rather scuppers my plan14:40
popeyyour plan?14:40
aquariuspopey, <aquarius> Mac question: mate of mine has a macbook and wants to try Ubuntu. Should I suggest that he runs it on the metal with bootcamp, or in some sort of VM, and if so in which VM? He's an architect, so he'll be using OS X a lot -- this is not a one-step total-changeover migration, but I'd like him to try Ubuntu and see what he thinks, and he's interested in it aesthetically.14:41
popeyits fine in a vm14:41
ali1234unity doesn't work in current virtualbox, you get unity-2d instead14:41
AlanBellit does work in virtualbox14:42
davmor2ali1234: it does if you enable the 3d14:42
popeythats not my experience14:42
ali1234i have enabled 3d. it still doesn't work14:42
popeyjust install virtualbox-x11-guest package in the guest14:42
AlanBellyou have to install virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 in the guest14:42
AlanBelland check the box14:42
ali1234that too14:42
hamitronI found unity-3d slow in vmware workstation, with the new drivers14:42
popeyor a similarly named package ☺14:42
popeyi have it working here14:42
ali1234basically you can expect, at the very least, to spend a few hours to a day tweaking it to get it to work14:43
AlanBellor it just works14:43
davmor2aquarius: I know a couple of devs that have Ubuntu running in vm on macs might not be mbp but they are happy with it14:43
ali1234yeah it just works after you install some random packages, reboot, and reconfigure the VM14:43
ali1234or, as in my case, it makes no difference at all14:43
hamitronisn't the idea of getting a Mac, to have a complete product anyway?14:44
ali1234no doubt any problems with bare metal could be resolved with roughly the same amount of effort14:44
davmor2ali1234: it works for me , popey and AlanBell I make the suggestion therefore that you missed a step :P14:44
popeyhis friend already has the mac14:44
popeyso the goal maybe for aquarius to allow his friend to try ubuntu14:44
hamitronI guess14:45
popeygiven thats what he just said14:45
aquariushamitron, indeed. He's already got a Mac, and he already uses OS X. I'd like him to try Ubuntu, and he's expressed an interest in doing so, but "spend a thousand pounds on a new computer" is too high a hurdle for him to jump. :)14:46
ali1234lol mac users think spending a thousand pounds on a computer is normal14:46
hamitronI can relate to that, been someone who hates spending money ;D14:46
aquarius*I* think spending a thousand pounds on a computer is normal.14:46
ali1234that better include a £600 monitor14:47
hamitrontbh, I'll spend upto £1600 still14:47
hamitronbut it sure as hell better last at least 10 years ;D14:47
popeymy latest computer setup was over 100014:47
popey700 for the laptop, and about 150 for the dock and 150 for the screen14:48
aquariusbecause I buy a computer for three years. I spend, roughly, twelve hours a day in front of it. That works out at a pound a day, in order to make my 12 hours be lovely rather than at best OK. That, to me, is a *superb* investment.14:48
ali1234so it does incude a £600 monitor then?14:48
davmor2my last laptop was 350 and my last pc update was 160 am I doing it all wrong?14:48
* TheOpenSourcerer haz new phone :-)14:49
aquariusSomeone who does some light photography would happily spend three or four hundred quid on a camera which they'll use once a week. I use my computer more than anything at all in my life other than my hands and cigarettes. I want it to be excellent.14:49
aquariusdavmor2, if that does everything you want, not at all; you're fine :)14:49
hamitronhmmm, I bet coffee is more expensive per hour, than my comp..... thinking about it :/14:50
aquariusI wanted a machine which had great battery life and was very light and was very thin and looked beautiful in my opinion and ran Ubuntu. So I bought my machine, which cost nine hundred. Like I say, I think that's a worthwhile investment.14:50
davmor2aquarius: mind you I might treat myself to a new monitor that is nearly as expensive as my last pc upgrade :D14:50
ali1234you bought a desktop replacement laptop?14:50
aquariusdavmor2, I've heard lots of people saying that buying a really good monitor is also a worthwhile investment. Mine was pretty cheap, and it's only 21"14:51
aquariusali1234, I only have one machine, indeed; just the laptop.14:51
AlanBellmy current laptop is the cheapest I have ever had at £350 ish, plus £40 for 8GB ram and £200 or so for an SSD, and I use a £150ish monitor with it14:51
popeyoh, yeah, ssd, 200 quid14:51
popeymouse and keyboard free! :D14:52
aquariusback to the Mac thing: if we're of the collective opinion that the Ubuntu experience on an MBP isn't nice enough for non-technical people yet (it takes too much configuration, or it doesn't quite work right, or the hardware isn't well supported) then I am fine with that conclusion: I am happy to say to my mate that it's not ready for him yet. I'd *rather* do that than say "it is ready" and have it be crap for him,14:52
aquariusbecause then I'll have burned him and it'll be much harder to win him back later.14:52
ali1234it's like that everywhere14:53
aquariusbut I do not know enough about this to answer that question, hence asking you guys because you're all clever. :P14:53
ali1234if you've been spoiled by a mac you're not going to get along with ubuntu14:53
ali1234basically unless they buy a computer with ubuntu preinstalled, it's not going to be easy enough for a typical mac user14:54
AlanBellnot sure I agree with that14:54
ali1234if otoh you can make it through the installer and know how to use google, all the problems are trivial.. but the same can be said of any linux distro14:54
hamitronI agree with the point about not tainting their view on ubuntu with a poor experience, but dunno otherwise14:56
ali1234as i said, the only way you'll actually know is if you try it out. because there's almost as many different mac hardware configurations as there are PCs14:57
popeyoooh, i see a postal delivery van with my pi on it outside14:57
* popey skips to the door14:57
* hamitron grumbles14:57
diploI want to upgrade SQLite on a old os, anyway of checking what might be dependant on it software wise ?14:58
aquariusif *I* could borrow his machine for a weekend and try it, I would, but I can't :)14:58
aquariusdiplo, apt-cache rdepends sqlite (if you're upgrading sqlite v2).14:59
hamitronaquarius, I'd personally get him to boot off an external hdd14:59
TheOpenSourcererI got a Galaxy S3 from the delivery van a short while ago. And a Galaxy 10.1 Tab too.14:59
ali1234actually i have two things i want to add14:59
ali1234firstly if you're waiting for it to be perfect you'll be waiting a long time14:59
hamitronthen no harm if he doesn't like it14:59
aquariusdiplo, apt-cache rdepends sqlite3 if you're on sqlite v3 already (but then it is very unlikely that an upgrade will break anything because it's a minor upgrade only)14:59
aquariushamitron, that's why I was wondering about VMs.15:00
ali1234secondly, is the type of person who will throw a fit and never use ubuntu again at the very first problem, really the type of person you want to attract in the first place?15:00
diploaquarius: I built the packages so I could break everything :D15:00
diploBut thanks, will look now15:00
aquariusdiplo, oh. You're on your own, in that case. Soz ;-)15:00
diploheh, Just covering my arse in backups is all15:00
diploWant to make sure I can reinstall anything I break15:01
diploIf I break*15:01
* hamitron would just backup *everything*15:01
ali1234diplo: you could do a global search for sqlite databases, then try to determine which software each belongs to :)15:01
davmor2TheOpenSourcerer: I expect a full review of the samsung galaxy s3 by end of day with no less than a 1000 words ;)  It's great just won't cut it :)15:01
* diplo doesn't have disc space15:01
diploI did think that ali123415:01
ali1234something like find / -exec file {}\; | grep sqlite15:02
ali1234then wait a *really* long time15:02
ali1234then lsof etc15:02
diplodo all Sqlite db's have to end in .db ?15:02
diploOr just a preference15:02
* diplo never touched SQLite till yesterday15:03
TheOpenSourcererdavmor2: Nope. Not enough time. After I've used it for a few weeks I might get round to it, but it wouldn't be fair IMHO to review it without actually using it for a while.15:03
popeyI am inclined to think that an osx user will not think ubuntu is a step up, yet.15:03
popeyespecially on mac hardware15:04
popeyhowever on a pc, they might15:04
davmor2TheOpenSourcerer: hahahahaha enjoy15:04
popeyi have a friend who has only macs in the house, she wanted a netbook for her daughter, but refuses to have windows15:04
ali1234diplo: no15:04
popeyi installed ubuntu on it, works a treat15:04
hamitrontime for tea and cakes15:06
=== Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte
davmor2czajkowski: calm down it's only and advert15:46
czajkowskineed cak e15:46
* AlanBell needs sleep15:46
AlanBelland cake15:46
dwatkinsbeware of cake... ;)15:48
diployum /me also needs sleep15:48
kirrusNow i'd quite like cake..15:48
diploBut I have promised to go on a 20 mile bike ride in 50mins :(15:48
* kirrus wonders where the nearest decent cake dispensery is15:48
dwatkinsdiplo: I often see people use /me either in the middle of a line or in systems which don't support it, I didn't even notice it might be anything other than normal in your line15:48
dwatkinsI have to cycle home, not really got a lot of choice about it. It's 5 miles.15:49
diplodwatkins: I have to cycle home first as well, just shy of 5 miles15:50
diploThen 20 mile bike ride, also did a 10 mile pub walk last night and a mile each way on my bike15:50
diploFor me this is fitness++15:50
diploI'm normally hogging the sofa15:51
dwatkinsYeah, I know what you mean - I'm cycling to work to a) save money and b) get fit15:51
dwatkinsI ordered an xbox game yesterday, which I'll have to cycle for two weeks to afford, in a sense.15:52
dwatkins(each day cycled saves me about 1.40 GBP in diesel)15:52
dwatkinsthis doesn't take wear-and-tear on the car into account, of course.15:53
diploI've not worked mine out, just decided that the tanks been kinda empty recently and it's lovely whether so I ought to make the most of it, downside is I'm making up for Calories burnt by drinking beer on these rides15:53
dwatkinsyeah, I tend to get home from cycling to and from work and get a couple beers on the way.15:57
diploRight, talking of home \o/15:59
diploLet's not think about the cycling part16:00
AzelphurO.O we just had some epic monster monsoon, hail everywhere, took a tile off our roof16:14
andylockranwhere's that Azelphur16:16
Azelphurandylockran: margate16:16
andylockransat in Manchester Piccadilly and the weather outside is gorgeous16:16
andylockranheading down to Euston on the 18.3516:16
andylockranI miss Manchester a little bit16:16
BigRedSdwatkins: nor the cost spent on the bike, though :)16:18
BigRedSI used to love seeing people start cycling in marchish to save money, and notice it becoming a horrendously expsnsive hobby for them come july16:18
AzelphurI literally sprinted across the street to get back to my house and close the window (Was at neighbours) and by the time I made it across the street I was completely soaked through and through16:18
Azelphurjust for crossing the road, lol16:18
Azelphurmy computers next to the window so have to close it when it rains :p16:19
oimonto join my union costs £18 per month LOL16:20
oimonwhat a rip off16:20
Azelphurhttps://twitter.com/Azelphur/status/207871270493229056/photo/1 remains of my roof xD16:36
davmor2MooDoo: there is and amd64 app being released to USC that is early in the release process that you might be interested in called "black silk"  as soon as it is published I'll let you know16:39
popeysounds rude16:41
davmor2popey: no it just makes black and white photography out of colour ones really nicely16:42
* AlanBell wonders why "black silk" would be potentially rude17:01
AlanBellmaybe I lack imagination17:01
dwatkinsBigRedS: true, but I had the bike anyway ;) I'm planning on getting a new one once I start cycling regularly, however.17:34
dwatkinsBigRedS: why did it get expensive in summer?17:36
=== schwuk is now known as schwuk_away
BigRedSdwatkins: it just takes a few months for it to go from tool-for-commuting-on to expensive-hobby18:05
BigRedSand it's normally spring when people start riding again18:06
dwatkinsah I see, BigRedS - I'm already pondering how much I should spend, what kind of disc brakes, etc. so I guess I'm a good example of that :)18:07
BigRedShaha, yeah - where are you commuting? Disk brakes don't like cities18:07
BigRedSwhen you get oil on disk brake pads they stop working so well. We used to find (in London) that this equated to a few month's commuting in London air....18:08
dwatkinsoh wow, I see18:11
dwatkinsI live in Edinburgh, and most of my commute is along the canal.18:12
dwatkinsI wonder how London affects non-disc brakes - friend of mine is living and studying there.18:12
MartijnVdSmagnetic brakes!18:15
kvarleypopey: http://kvarley.co.uk/RaspberryPi/OpenELEC/ - The .img of OpenELEC with XBMC is up there now hosted on  Ubuntu One =]18:16
popeyI'm building ubuntu packages for my pi now18:16
MartijnVdSI wonder how Unity performs on it18:17
BigRedSdwatkins: not so bad in summer. Can get through a set of pads in a few day's rain though18:17
BigRedSthere really are several good reasons for the rise in popularity of fixies18:17
popeydount it will at all18:17
popeyonly 256MB RAM18:18
MartijnVdSpopey: it has 3d acceleration18:18
dwatkinsBigRedS: wow, didn't realise they could wear down so fast18:18
popeynot sure I have enough lifetimes to compile unity for it :D18:18
dwatkinspopey: I'd be surprised if it were powerful, sadly18:18
MartijnVdSpopey: your children can continue the good work18:18
dwatkins*powerful enough18:18
MartijnVdSpopey: also, cross-compiling18:19
dwatkinsYou can cross-compile for the RaspPi, though.18:19
popeyi am18:19
popeyon two i7s18:19
kvarleypopey: POWERRRRRR18:19
dwatkinsI have a core i7 in my laptop at work, the OS sees 8 cores. I'm ashamed that I just use it for reading e-mails and browsing the web mostly, so I run vmware on it sometimes to make sure it doesn't get bored.18:20
MartijnVdSdwatkins: they give us ridiculously overpowered machines like that as well18:20
MartijnVdSwhile we do all of our work on one of the 32-core 128GB servers in the DC18:20
MartijnVdS\o/ ssh -X + gvim18:21
* dwatkins grins18:22
dwatkinsI used to work with clusters, ones which fill a sizeable room and have a couple petabytes of storage on the back row - they share them out to universities and chemical/oil companies, though18:23
brobostigonMartijnVdS: the end of that wish you were here, docu, is very sad, we knew it, but they never said.18:36
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: The Syd Barrett story?18:41
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: I watched http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j2fcq yesterday18:41
brobostigonMartijnVdS: the wish you were here, how they descibed syd at the end.18:41
brobostigonMartijnVdS: it is well documented, that syd came to hear them record wish you were here album, but not said in the way they there.18:43
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: I didn't see it :|18:46
brobostigonMartijnVdS: :(, you pointed me at it, as i forgot.18:46
MartijnVdSbrobostigon: yeah but it was on very late.. and somehow my "record satellite" script broke18:47
brobostigonMartijnVdS: :( not good.18:47
MartijnVdSI fixed it now, but too late18:47
MartijnVdSreboot had shuffled around DVB device numbers18:47
MartijnVdS(DVB-T, DVB-S)18:48
brobostigonMartijnVdS: yes, it was very emotional,18:48
MartijnVdSso it tried to record from DVB-T 8-)18:48
ahayzenQuestion: Hi, I've been using unity with autohide set to ON. I just brought up the HUD and you get a ~3px wide line down the left side (looks like the dash border) - I guess because the launcher isn't there the border is overflowing into the desktop. Is that supposed to happen or should I report a bug? Thanks, Andy19:05
jacobwi'm really liking unity in 12.04 :)19:25
jacobw<bill hicks>a positive unity story!</bill hicks>19:25
popeyjacobw: thats good to hear19:46
MartijnVdSit's not getting in my way at least :P19:49
MartijnVdSwell the HUD is, but that's disableable19:49
MartijnVdS(nice word, disableable)19:51
AlanBelleasily turn on and offable19:51
MartijnVdSAlanBell: yes, like that :)19:51
brobostigondirecthex: what is your opinion on qnx.?20:03
directhexbrobostigon, covered in bees20:03
brobostigondirecthex: that is illogical,20:04
brobostigonsoftware cannot be covered in bees.20:05
directhexclearly you've never seen an embedded arm vendor's kernel patches20:05
directhexbees as far as the eye can see20:05
brobostigondirecthex: i have not, no.20:05
ali1234think yourself lucky to even get patches20:06
dwatkinsdirecthex: sounds like a reference to Invader Zim (covered in bees)20:10
shaunoeddie izzard surely?20:10
brobostigondirecthex: ok, what about blackberry's qnx implementation, ?20:11
dwatkinsah, didn't know that20:11
dwatkinshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-tl6GBOBo explains all about this 'covered in bees' reference :)20:12
directhexbrobostigon, ultimately qnx is a decent RTOS, but i'm confused as to why you'd use an RTOS on a mobile phone, and RIM is in freefall so i'm not sure their OS has much life left. BBX needed to happen several years earlier20:13
directhexis it even shipping on phones yet, or just the playbook?20:13
penguin42dwatkins: I was assuming it was a reference to blackberreees20:13
dwatkinspenguin42: ahhhh20:13
brobostigondirecthex: from what i have read, and as they advertise, os10, will appear on the playbook.20:14
directhexbrobostigon, but the playbook was a failure out of the door. and blackberry os, on phones, is junk. so what do we have?20:15
brobostigondirecthex: why was the playbook a failiure. it seems like fairly good hw from my view.20:16
brobostigondirecthex: aswell, as from what i have read, wihtin their qnx implementation,  alot of things have been fixed.20:18
directhexbrobostigon, nobody bought them, even when they halved the price?20:20
directhexand RIM shares are tumbling20:20
brobostigondirecthex: very true, yes.but i was wondering as to the hw, and their qnx implementation. than the rest of the company.20:22
directhexfine, then20:22
directhexgood Qt platform20:22
directhexwell, the qt hackers i know say it's a good qt platform, anyway20:23
directhexgood enough that they're dumping the android layer in favour of native qt apps20:24
brobostigondirecthex: i am thinking about my own birthday pressie to myself, a new toy, or an acoustic drum kit.20:28
MartijnVdSyour neighbors will love you :P20:30
brobostigonyeah, :)20:30
brobostigonMartijnVdS: but they do already, with the bass tube i have,20:31
MartijnVdShaha :)20:31
brobostigonMartijnVdS: my dad drove up once, and he said, and i quote, he could hear it, before he stepped out of the car.20:32
directhexbrobostigon, hear it, or feel the vibrations in his kidneys? :p20:36
brobostigondirecthex: yeah.20:36
dogmatic69anyone have creative ideas for running cat5 from the lounge (ground floor) to the loft (2nd story)20:42
directhexdogmatic69, drill a hole in the ceiling?20:42
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: 16mm pipe?20:43
dogmatic69directhex: its like a foot of concrete i think20:43
dogmatic69MartijnVdS: what do I do with the pipe then?20:43
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: good point20:43
* dogmatic69 bought outside-duty cat520:43
MartijnVdSWe used to stick ethernet cable next to the central heating pipes back home20:44
dogmatic69was thinking of running it up the wall out side20:44
ali1234there's a foot of concrete between the ground floor and the loft?20:44
dogmatic69MartijnVdS: that will slow down my downloads... :P20:44
MartijnVdSali1234: sounds like a normal house to me20:44
directhexdogmatic69,  http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7094/6999689228_fc7c5a0093_o_d.jpg20:44
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: how?20:44
ali1234do you live in a nuclear bunker?20:44
dogmatic69ali1234: no, first and ground20:44
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: no central heating then?20:45
dogmatic69MartijnVdS: when stuff is cold, its more dense. travels faster. (marginal i know)20:45
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: so run coolant though the pipes20:45
MartijnVdSwho needs heat when you have a 500W PC :P20:46
dogmatic69GF <3's central heating... it can be 25'C and its on20:46
dogmatic69*750w + 2 blade servers :)20:46
dogmatic69Don't even have a ladder that can reach for attaching the cat5 outside.20:47
MartijnVdShowever, ladders like that do exist and are for sale20:48
MartijnVdSor scissor lifts, for rent20:48
AlanBelldogmatic69: ethernet over power or wifi?20:48
AlanBellwifi with wires at both ends perhaps20:48
MartijnVdSI have a 30cm wall20:48
MartijnVdSjust got a huge drill and made a hole for 4x cat520:49
MartijnVdScat5e really20:49
MartijnVdSthis is 1969 concrete so it's quite hard too20:49
dogmatic69I am trying to get away from wifi. My office is on the first floor and does not get good signal, and its about 20 feet max away.20:49
dogmatic69I got a extender and that does not work too good either20:49
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: http://www.wikihow.com/Drill-Into-Concrete20:50
dogmatic69also I am mounting things from the blades (also on wifi atm) and when the signal drops my desktop will almost crash20:50
popeyi put my access point in the middle of the house20:51
popeyand it's plugged into an ethernet-over-power device with another connected in my office to the internet box20:51
popeyjob done, wifi coverage over the whole house20:51
* MartijnVdS has a small house, so an AP anywhere gives enough coverage20:51
MartijnVdSespecially on 5GHz, where I'm the first ;)20:51
popeyi dont have a big house, its just my main access point is in the very corner, opposite to the bedroom ☺20:52
popeyyou can sometimes _just_ get a signal20:52
MartijnVdSpopey: get a higher-power AP :)20:52
* MartijnVdS has a Linksys E320020:53
popeyoh I'm fine now with my netgear wndr3700 + ddwrt20:53
dogmatic69one big problem is sky.20:53
dogmatic69complete rubbish20:54
MartijnVdSdogmatic69: come to nl.. we have good ISPs20:54
popey\o/ virgin20:54
dogmatic69Called sky to cancel 2 months ago...20:55
dogmatic69waiting for some number in the post20:55
Azelphurrandom question, how on earth can it hail when the temperature outside is as warm as it is o.O20:55
dogmatic69Azelphur: the hail is not formed on the ground :)20:56
AzelphurI guess, the temperature difference between ground and air must have been insane20:56
dogmatic69the warmth might actually help it20:56
Azelphuryea, maybe that's why the weather went so nuts20:56
dogmatic69hail forms when drops freeze, hit warm air and rise again. repeat until to large to float any more20:57
Azelphurah, that'd explain it then :)20:57
dogmatic69I'm no meteorologist but enjoyed geography at school20:58
dogmatic69wiki says the ideal temp is -13'C up to, so almost 50'C difference20:59
AzelphurI guess we had a bit of a perfect storm then, all the ice built up and came down at the same time21:02
=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away
davmor2gord: no co-working space tomorrow, by the sound of it it's only me going to be there22:13

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!