[00:15] <AlanBell> home at last
[00:20] <penguin42> from anywhere exciting?
[06:29] <astromech> morning everyone ! :)
[06:39] <Knightwise> morning ! :)
[06:49] <Knightwise> hey alan_g
[07:19] <brobostigon> good morning eveyone.
[07:26] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:29] <Knightwise> hey brobostigon ! hey MartijnVdS !
[07:29] <Knightwise> how are you doing
[07:31] <brobostigon> hey Knightwise
[07:31] <brobostigon> hey MartijnVdS
[07:33] <Knightwise> will be doing an interesting topic on this weeks podcast
[07:33] <Knightwise>  Ubuntu on a G4 imac
[07:34] <Knightwise> still working through some issues though
[07:34] <Knightwise> lets say an app isn't compiled for ppc
[07:35] <Knightwise> (like for example flash and stuff)
[07:35] <Knightwise> can you compile it from source code ?
[07:35] <diplo> Morning all
[07:35] <Knightwise> hey diplo
[07:36] <mattt> morning morning
[07:50] <Knightwise> hey matt
[07:50] <Knightwise> question : just to get things straight for my podcast
[07:51] <Knightwise> when you have the sourcecode of an app , you can just compile it for whatever distro you are using .. right ?
[07:51] <Knightwise> but does that also mean that you can compile it for any processor ?
[07:51] <Knightwise> reason i'm asking is : if i run Linux on my PPC Imac
[07:51] <Knightwise> and i want to run chromium .. there is no port for chromium
[07:52] <Knightwise> is it possible for me to compile it from source ?
[07:54] <brobostigon> yes, Knightwise
[07:55] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: if it's written properly, it shuold work
[07:55] <brobostigon> Knightwise: as for flash, you will have to use gnash, or similer, as adobe dont release the source.
[07:57] <Knightwise> thanx brobostigon , MartijnVdS
[07:58] <MartijnVdS> but if they use in-line assembler, or other processor-specific tricks (or bugs!), you're out of luck (unless you know the bugs/features and can work around them)
[07:58] <Knightwise> i'll go and try Gnash and anyone have any good alternatives to chromeium ?
[07:58] <Knightwise> (i have firefox 11 on it btw)
[07:58] <Knightwise> its a lubuntu 12.04 install
[07:59] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: why not just use chromium?
[07:59] <brobostigon> Knightwise: i think there is a powerpc build of chromium in debian, so you might be able to get some help there.
[08:01] <Knightwise> aha , that sounds interesting.
[08:01] <brobostigon> Knightwise: i just checked, and there is. so you maybe able to import it.
[08:03] <Knightwise> aha :) so there is a ppc deb for chromium
[08:03] <Knightwise> might take a look at that.
[08:03] <Knightwise> be back in a sec
[08:03] <brobostigon> :)
[08:08] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:14] <hoover> morning all
[08:17] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:22] <SuperEngineer> just announced: sounds like Julian Assange extradition to go ahead
[08:24] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:24] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[08:26] <kvarley> SuperEngineer: It's a weird situation. If he hadn't had the incident with those women then he'd have been fine. He was moving into the media too much tho, when somebody does that stuff they should be off the radar at all times.
[08:28] <SuperEngineer> agreed  -- but -- but so should the CIA
[08:29] <kvarley> SuperEngineer: Lol true
[08:38] <gord> neat, new nvidia driver with xrandr support seems to work well
[08:41] <arsen> so, lets say my new work environment has been using SLED for the last two years (for dev/sysadminning), what arguements can i make to push them back to ubuntu?:)
[08:55] <kirrus> Argh!
[08:55] <kirrus> Something is setting off a 'doorchime' sound on my computer, and I can't trace it. Any ideas?
[08:56] <kirrus> The sound centre isn't giving any help at all. I've excluded thunderbird, pidgin, any sound notification (I killed the binary)
[08:56]  * kirrus wonders if someone is pranking him
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> kirrus: "door chime" sound?
[09:03] <MartijnVdS> kirrus: transmission finishing a download?
[09:04] <MartijnVdS> system bell? (check sound preferences -- it has options for "Glass" and "Sonar" etc.)
[09:05] <shauno> in the scary old days, I used to chase such faults by pulling the soundcard out, and then looking to see which processes were stuck when the kernel started spewing DMA timeouts all over the screen
[09:05] <stuphi> kirrus: That normally happens to me when the mess on my desk overflows onto the keyboard.
[09:05] <shauno> (not recommended, just feeling old)
[09:09] <kirrus> stuphi: hehe, yeah, not quite that bad ;)
[09:09] <kirrus> MartijnVdS: don't run transmission! :/
[09:09] <kirrus> shauno: *wishes that still worked*
[09:10] <shauno> I'm not sure it should have worked in the first place.  they were never designed to be hot-swappable :)
[09:11] <MartijnVdS> kirrus: keep the sound preferences window open on the "connected clients" list
[09:11] <kirrus> Didn't change when it played :(
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> is it your PC playing it then?
[09:12] <MartijnVdS> some flash page in the background somewhere?
[09:12] <kirrus> Aye, these don't have speakers, this is the only one attached to some speakers
[09:12] <kirrus> No, not as far as I can tell
[09:17] <MartijnVdS> kirrus: does turning the volume up/down work?
[09:18] <kirrus> MartijnVdS: not tried that yet.. the chime is short enough I can't get my hands to the right place on the keyboard fast enough. I might try turning it down this evening once I can
[09:20] <AlanBell> kirrus: have you tried answering the door ;)
[09:24] <kirrus> AlanBell: :P
[09:28] <MartijnVdS> kirrus: no turn down the volume to minimum, wait.. then turn up to maximum, wait
[10:00] <davmor2> morning all
[10:11] <DJones> directhex: Congratulations
[10:24]  * davmor2 feels like he missed out on the start of this conversation, DJones, directhex why are you being congratulate
[10:25] <DJones> davmor2: From twitter http://hasflisshadthebabyyet.apebox.org/
[10:26] <davmor2> DJones: nice
[10:26] <davmor2> directhex: Congats dude
[10:27] <DJones> I guess that will mean mono developent will be postboned for the foreseeable future
[10:28] <davmor2> DJones: next 18 years :D
[10:33] <JamesTait> Morning all! :)
[10:36] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[10:37] <czajkowski> davmor2: ello how be you
[10:37] <davmor2> czajkowski: I be tired, how be you
[10:45] <mattt> installing 12.04 on my desktop at work ...
[10:45]  * mattt holds onto his butts
[10:46] <czajkowski> davmor2: good, busy but good
[10:48] <SuperMatt> mattt: I'm sure you know it's not going to be a problem. 12.04 is just awesome.
[10:49] <Nafallo> yay! HSBC fast balance finally available on android.
[10:49] <czajkowski> Nafallo: howdy
[10:50] <Nafallo> morning
[10:50] <mattt> SuperMatt: to be fair, i mainly use my macbook :P
[10:50] <mattt> but i'm still excited
[10:56] <SuperMatt> I'm looking forward to the quantal alpha :D
[10:57] <SuperMatt> For some reason, I enjoy living on the edge
[11:08] <oimon> argh once signing into g+ chat, now i see g+ contacts in pidgin . anyone km
[11:08] <oimon> know how to fix?
[11:10] <gord> i'm confused, why would you sign in to google+ chat if you didn't want to see the google+ contacts?
[11:10] <oimon> i wanted to start a hangout with my missis. now i get notifications everytime popey signs in
[11:11] <gord> so remove your gtalk account from pidgin?
[11:11] <popey> or disable notifications
[11:11] <AlanBell> or unfriend popey
[11:11] <oimon> i only want to see my gmail talk contacts rather than g+ contacts in my list
[11:12] <AlanBell> it does sound more like a feature than a bug
[11:12] <popey> you can disable that in G+
[11:12] <AlanBell> I found a heap of google chat things on my android client the other day, people have been inviting me to stuff since oggcamp and I never knew it was happening
[11:13] <gord> "This email was sent to gordsemail@gmail.com because you indicated that you want to receive news regarding Google Analytics integration with other Google products. If you do not wish to receive such emails in the future, please unsubscribe here: {% optout analytics promotion %} " uh...
[11:13] <oimon> popey, ah yes, i just found the custom list
[11:14] <AlanBell> I don't really know how the android messenger thing ties in with the google plus desktop interface
[11:14] <oimon> i use g+ as a twitter replacement. however since i accidentally updated the g+ app on my tablet i'm not sure i want to anymore
[11:14] <oimon> it's hideous
[11:14] <AlanBell> it is dreadful now
[11:14] <oimon> forutnately my phone is pinned on the old version
[11:15] <popey> i like it
[11:15] <oimon> i'd go as far to say that it's broken and doesn't work
[11:16] <gord> i found it a bit crampt on my phones fairly small by modern standards resolution
[11:16] <oimon> small icons and pics in posts end up being massive and obliterate the text
[11:16] <AlanBell> it is kind of clever that they put the pictures behind the text and mostly it stays readable
[11:21] <AlanBell> you only get two things on screen really now
[11:21] <AlanBell> twitter gets about 5 tweets
[11:21] <oimon> it looks hideous on a tablet
[11:22] <oimon> the webpage still looks ok
[11:22] <AlanBell> irssi in screen gets about 25 lines of stuff
[11:22] <popey> everything looks hideous on an android tablet ☺
[11:22] <AlanBell> plus highlights and channel list
[11:22] <AlanBell> popey: well do hurry up with the ubuntu tablets then :)
[11:23] <popey> roger roger
[11:23] <daubers> whats the vector victor?
[11:23] <gord> what's the frequency Kenneth?
[11:24] <oimon> this bug made me switch to gnome classic.need to wait till weekend to actually raise the bug in launchpad though :( http://askubuntu.com/questions/129265/nx-session-window-icon-shrinks-and-is-non-responsive-but-remote-session-still-a
[11:31] <davmor2> gord: mrevell: you both coming tomorrow?
[11:37] <gord> lots of stuff to do, so doubtful unless i get i make a good dent in it all today
[11:58] <czajkowski> oimon: why do you have to wait til the weekend?
[11:59] <oimon> czajkowski, i'm running windows on my laptop to work on an issue all week and can't reboot into linux to give screenshots/steps to repeat
[12:00] <oimon> btw how was flossie
[12:00] <czajkowski> good thanks
[12:18] <Knightwise> pompom pom
[12:35] <mattt> note to self, don't eat dodgy fish burger+chips for lunch
[13:11]  * hamitron scratches head
[13:13] <hamitron> gftp transfers at 22KB/s using ssh, scp transfers at 140KB/s
[13:13] <oimon> has anyone ever done a wee into a bottle while at the desk on a long conf call?
[13:13] <oimon> tempted right now
[13:14] <hamitron> done it into an empty bottle of cider
[13:14] <hamitron> but not what you say
[13:14] <hamitron> ;)
[13:14] <oimon> i bought a £120k setup and getting 1mb/s read speed
[13:15] <oimon> was hoping for more like 500MB/s
[13:15] <hamitron> over ssh?
[13:15] <oimon> no, direct attached
[13:15] <hamitron> k :/
[13:15] <oimon> running vmware on a blade
[13:16] <oimon> connected to SAN
[13:16] <oimon> something's broke but we don't know what
[13:17] <hamitron> well, I've given up with vmware again
[13:17] <diplo> After guys, anyone know much about MariaDB, esepecially licensing ?
[13:17] <hamitron> but that is only workstation
[13:17] <hamitron> :)
[13:18] <daubers> oimon: Is it quicker on the host (rather than in the VM guest)
[13:20] <AlanBell> diplo: it is GPL and works like mysql
[13:20] <oimon> daubers, yes
[13:21] <diplo> It's just my colleagues in Nottingham believe there is an issue with MySQL and C++ licensing that prevents us using mysql
[13:21] <oimon> if i live boot from an iso , hdparm gives OK speeds
[13:21] <diplo> atm we are using SQLite but it doesn't suit, can't find any info whether it's exactly same license for mariadb for the c++ issues
[13:21] <oimon> maybe a multipathing driver issue in esxi
[13:21] <jpds> diplo: Install Postgres?
[13:22]  * daubers excessivley dislikes SANs
[13:22] <diplo> heh, that is the other option jpds, I just suggested MariaDB as it means no massive code changes
[13:22] <AlanBell> diplo: there might be problems with mysql as oracle are going to interpret grey areas to their advantage
[13:22] <diplo> http://www.mysql.com/about/legal/licensing/foss-exception/
[13:22] <AlanBell> http://kb.askmonty.org/en/licensing-faq/
[13:22] <diplo> Guessing it's related to this, the guys up north looked into it more than I have in the last 10  minutes
[13:23] <diplo> MySQL before 5.1.55 also had the same FLOSS exception for the C client libraries, but the exception file and all references to it were removed by Oracle in MySQL 5.1.55.
[13:24] <diplo> Hmm so it defo seems to be the client connection part
[13:24] <diplo> I *hate* licensing!
[13:24] <diplo> :)
[13:26] <diplo> OK, so still screwed with mariadb
[13:29] <kvarley> Is there a way to clone an SD Card with dd but in a way that the output of the device is half the size of the actual card? For example my SD card is 512 MB but the content on there only actually fills 128MB, is there a way to clone the partitions but with a smaller cylinder size?
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> no
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: is this for raspberry pi?
[13:31] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Yes
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: then you can make the partitions on the "target" card yourself using fdisk or gparted (1x FAT, 1x EXT4, optional: 1x swap)
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: then copy the contents over by mounting both ext4 partitions (source and target) and rsyncing everything over
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> I think
[13:32] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: I wanted to clone my 512MB card to an image but resize of partition sizes within the image so that people could write the image to a 256 MB card
[13:35] <hamitron> can't you create a blank image, copy the files to it, then write the boot sectors?
[13:35] <hamitron> you'd need to format the blank image first too ofc
[13:36] <kvarley> hamitron: Hadn't thought of that. That may just work, what tool do you recommend for writing boot sectors? Or would it work if I mounted the image as a loop and then used parted to make partitions?
[13:36] <hamitron> dd
[13:36] <hamitron> well, I'd use dd for copying the raw boot sector
[13:37] <kvarley> hamitron: Gonna use dd to make a blank image then go from there. I'll let you know how I get on - thanks for the help =]
[13:38] <hamitron> I just recall, been able to grab the first so many bytes from a drive using dd, but sure how many and if I'm even talking sense
[13:38] <hamitron> ;)
[13:38] <hamitron> google will know no doubt
[13:39] <popey> ooh, reminds me, my 2nd raspberry pi is out for delivery
[13:39] <popey> i should keep an ear out
[13:39] <gord> so good you needed another one?
[13:39] <kvarley> Everybody needs at least 2 Pis
[13:39] <kvarley> One stable, one to mess with
[13:39] <popey> 3rd should get here next week
[13:39] <gord> not sure what i could actually use a pi for
[13:39] <hamitron> kvarley, http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/howto-copy-mbr/
[13:39] <kvarley> popey: You got XBMC running on it yet?
[13:40] <popey> yes
[13:40] <kvarley> hamitron: Thanks
[13:40] <gord> apart from maaaybe replacing my revos, but i'm in no hurry to do that
[13:40] <kvarley> popey: It's surprisingly good
[13:40] <hamitron> can't you just have 2 memory cards, to swap with 1 r-pi?
[13:40] <hamitron> ;)
[13:41] <hamitron> I've registered my interest for my first r-pi now \o/
[13:42] <kvarley> What are /dev/sdb /dev/sdc called?
[13:42] <hamitron> they are files, representing drives
[13:43] <kvarley> Wondered if they have a specific name so I can search for how to mount an unformatted img file as one
[13:44] <hamitron> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/mounting-img-files-328503/
[13:47] <popey> kvarley: what are you trying to do?
[13:48] <popey> make an sd card for a pi?
[13:48] <kvarley> hamitron: Thanks, got it mounted now
[13:48] <kvarley> popey: Making a bootable image for redistribution
[13:48] <kvarley> hamitron: Had to format the .img file first "mkfs.msdos imagefile.img"
[13:48] <hamitron> yep
[13:49] <popey> kvarley: containing what?
[13:49] <diplo> popey: How well does xbmc run then? I was up to buy one to get it for media box for my boys room, but failed to order and thought i'd wait out to see what improvements came over the following months before i actually ordered
[13:49] <kvarley> popey: A OpenELEC (XBMC)
[13:49] <popey> ahh
[13:50] <hamitron> is the MBR used on the SD card with the r-pi, like a "normal" PC uses it?
[13:50] <kvarley> diplo: Menus still need a little tweaking. Can play 1080p x264 videos no problems tho. As the menus get fully rendered by the GPU it'll free up the CPU to run programs and add-ons in the background
[13:50] <kvarley> diplo: For the price it makes a damn swish media centre
[13:51] <diplo> Cool, sold still then,,, mates turned up yesterday so going to try it out.
[13:51] <diplo> I'd love one for the boys and my room, have a revo in the front room with xbmc already
[13:51] <hamitron> surely the revo will kick its butt?
[13:51] <diplo> Any recommendations on imgs to load for XBMC ?
[13:51] <popey> hamitron: at what?
[13:51] <kvarley> hamitron: No MBR, just a "start.elf" file in a partition which is marked with flags boot and lba
[13:51] <diplo> Yes, but that's in the front room and £150+, I want one for the two other rooms
[13:51] <kvarley> diplo: I'm making one now
[13:52] <diplo> ah right, making some improvements ?
[13:52] <hamitron> popey, poowwwwwwwwwwwwer ;)
[13:52] <popey> pi is lower power :p
[13:52] <kvarley> diplo: Oh, sorry thought you literally meant .img. I'm making a .img of OpenELEC. OpenELEC is a lightweight linux distro which specifically runs and targets the RPi - it's the best I've tried so far for running XBMC.
[13:52] <hamitron> oh, energy wise yeh
[13:53] <diplo> ah, just read up about openelec, can't say I've seen it before
[13:53] <hamitron> but comeon..... atom vs arm
[13:53] <gord> for xbmc, all you need is enough power to play 1080p content
[13:53] <popey> are you trolling?
[13:53] <diplo> hamitron: It's GPU based though mainly
[13:53] <popey> what he said
[13:53] <gord> you don't need lots of power, just enough
[13:53] <gord> the new revos are stupid powerful though, the black ones have a geforce 210 variant in them
[13:54] <diplo> Will tell him to use OpenElec kvarley thanks, glad I ordered these monitors @ work with hdmi sockets :D
[13:54] <hamitron> so the revo is more powerful, can do more things
[13:54] <hamitron> is all I'm saying
[13:54] <hamitron> :)
[13:54] <popey> if you only want it to do one thing, no need
[13:54] <hamitron> not trolling..... today
[13:54] <hamitron> ;)
[13:55] <gord> vdpau has broken on my precice xbmc install, so i had to drop it down to using software decoding, it actually only hits one core and gets smooth playback at 1080p... i'm mostly putting it down to the new nvidia drivers though, xrandr means xbmc can switch the refresh rate down to 24hz
[13:56] <diplo> Tried the XBMC official release gord ? Or you run normal precise and ppa ?
[13:56] <gord> normal precice and ubuntu xbmc
[13:56] <gord> its in the repos now
[13:56] <gord> which is nice because it uses system installed ffmpeg, so i get 10bit decoding support in eden
[13:56] <diplo> oh right
[13:57] <diplo> Time to upgrade for me then!
[13:57] <diplo> I'm running Eden but on 9.04 or 9.10, can't remember
[13:58]  * hamitron is loving 12.04
[13:58] <kvarley> diplo: http://kvarley.co.uk/RaspberryPi/OpenELEC/
[13:58]  * popey falls over
[13:58] <popey> kvarley: is that a tarball or what?
[13:59] <kvarley> popey: tarballs on there at the moment
[13:59] <kvarley> popey: Image coming when I get it done
[13:59] <popey> k
[13:59] <kvarley> popey: I can give you a shout when it's up if you want?
[13:59] <popey> pro-tip, put it in your ubuntu one folder, and share it
[13:59] <popey> then you get an ubuntu-one url rather than a manky mediafire one :D
[13:59] <hamitron> is ubuntu one good then?
[14:00] <kvarley> popey: Ok =]
[14:00] <AlanBell> better than those popup sites
[14:00] <hamitron> I sorta removed the icon :/
[14:00] <gord> you can also use dropbox or whatever if you prefer ;)
[14:01] <hamitron> with all these terms and conditions, it gets confusing
[14:01] <davmor2> hamitron: U1 is perfect for me
[14:01] <hamitron> tempted to just go back to basics
[14:02] <hamitron> is it 5GB or 20GB storage?
[14:02] <AlanBell> U1 is good, but has problems with uploading lots of files at once (fix in progress I think)
[14:02] <davmor2> hamitron: you can access U1 via the messages indicator
[14:02] <gord> 5GB free, 20GB pay pay for
[14:03] <bubu\a> any uk'ers here get xbmcflix working in UK on XBMC?
[14:04] <AlanBell> U1 seems quite a bit slower than dropbox
[14:04] <diplo> bubu\a: Netflix on XBMC ?
[14:04] <bubu\a> yes
[14:04] <ali1234> what happens if i hammer a free U1 account?
[14:04] <bubu\a> diplo, its called XBMCflix
[14:05] <diplo> Thought it was silverlight, so only way would be on a windows xbmc install
[14:05] <diplo> Not seen that
[14:05] <AlanBell> ali1234: then aquarius will have a sad face
[14:05] <bubu\a> yeah needs windows install
[14:05] <ali1234> like by using it to host all the images on my 2M hits per hour blog, for example
[14:05] <bubu\a> only reason I switched from xbmc live to XBMC ontop of win7
[14:05] <bubu\a> and there is no UK API for it :(
[14:05] <gord> it probably explicitly crawls the us site
[14:05] <aquarius> ali1234, depends on your definition of the word "hammer". At the moment, we do not restrict how many times a published file is downloaded.
[14:06] <ali1234> aquarius: well, i defined it ^
[14:06] <aquarius> I do not believe that you have a blog which is hit two million times an hour. :)
[14:06] <hamitron> haha
[14:07] <gord> buuuurn
[14:07] <aquarius> *youtube* only gets about 70 times that much :)
[14:09] <hamitron> all these free services have turned me into a right tight git
[14:10] <hamitron> begrudge paying anything these days ;)
[14:10] <bubu\a> lol
[14:16] <aquarius> hamitron, U1's pretty nice, although obviously I would say that. Paying for a service is, in my opinion, a good idea, because I read http://blog.pinboard.in/2011/12/don_t_be_a_free_user/ and agreed with it, and it changed my view on how I use stuff (honestly unconnected with how I work on a service which I'd like people to pay for, although I can see why you wouldn't believe me on that :)
[14:17] <hamitron> I believe in paying for a service, to get something decent and make it viable
[14:17] <hamitron> but I also hate paying
[14:17] <hamitron> so end up with nothing \o/
[14:17] <aquarius> Mac question: mate of mine has a macbook and wants to try Ubuntu. Should I suggest that he runs it on the metal with bootcamp, or in some sort of VM, and if so in which VM? He's an architect, so he'll be using OS X a lot -- this is not a one-step total-changeover migration, but I'd like him to try Ubuntu and see what he thinks, and he's interested in it aesthetically.
[14:18] <ali1234> it won't run properly in a VM
[14:18] <ali1234> gord will probably try to disagree but i don't care, unity needs better 3D support than VMs can provide
[14:19] <hamitron> I'll second what ali1234 said
[14:19] <hamitron> resizing windows just made it feel sluggish :/
[14:20] <gord> if only unity had a 2d mode?
[14:20] <aquarius> OK. But will everything else run properly *not* in a VM? Historically, as I understand it, we've not had great support for Mac hardware, and he's not a technical guy -- if it doesn't suspend properly or doesn't work with his TV properly or the sound doesn't work sometimes then it'll turn him off, and I'd like to impress here if I can.
[14:20] <diplo> bubu\a: Didn't want to pay for a license so didnt go with windows ( Not got spare cash for win7 atm )
[14:20] <ali1234> i've got no idea, i don't use macs
[14:20] <diplo> So NetFlix don't get my cash
[14:20] <aquarius> ali1234, neither do I, which is why I'm asking to see if anyone knows. :)
[14:20] <ali1234> there was a nice bug where it bricked some macs because of efi
[14:21] <ali1234> but that was fixed ages ago
[14:22] <ali1234> tbh i'm not really sure why anyone who actually likes OS X would want to switch to ubuntu
[14:22] <diplo> Anyone recommend places that sell little units like these, want to compare some places
[14:22] <diplo> http://www.tranquilpcshop.co.uk/t2i-with-2nd-generation-intel-core-processor/
[14:23] <aquarius> ali1234, well; he's seen Ubuntu and likes how it looks, and he's interested in trying something new -- he's not a technical person, but he enjoys technology if you see what I mean.
[14:23] <ali1234> well i can understand that, what with unity being largely copied from OS X
[14:24] <ali1234> it just doesn't really compare favourably if you've used both
[14:24] <aquarius> and he's got a strong aesthetic sense (architect, after all), so I want him to experience Ubuntu being beautiful -- because he's not technical, he's hardly heard of it at all, so he's not bringing all the baggage of "oh it's linux it doesn't work", "oh it's linux you have to compile your own kernel", and so on. I think this sort of person is just who we *want* to attract.
[14:24] <aquarius> ali1234, that's what I want to test. If he uses Ubuntu and everything works perfectly and he still doesn't like it, then I shall say "fine, we're obviously not ready to go after that segment of the market".
[14:25] <ali1234> why would you want to use linux if you don't want to compile your own kernel?
[14:25] <aquarius> What I'd like to avoid is it *potentially* being great for him but him being let down because the sound doesn't work, or something equally annoying.
[14:25] <hamitron> perhaps boot from an external hdd?
[14:25] <ali1234> well the only way you will find that out is by trying it on his machine first before you let him use it
[14:25] <hamitron> if the livecd works ofc
[14:25] <aquarius> ali1234, because it's beautiful and it does everything you want from a computer and the upgrades are free. That's why I use it.
[14:26] <ali1234> i thought you said you liked to pay for stuff?
[14:27] <hamitron> that site aquarius linked said that didn't go for software, more for services
[14:27] <hamitron> :)
[14:27] <aquarius> If the seller *wants* money, sure. The Ubuntu community don't *have* a way to pay for Ubuntu, because that's not what they want. They get money from sale of services around Ubuntu, which I am happy to pay -- I buy music, I'd pay for U1 if I didn't get it for nothing, I buy things from the shop.
[14:28] <ali1234> " If they won't do it, clone them and do it yourself.  Soon you'll be the only game in town! "
[14:28] <aquarius> hamitron, exactly. The point of services is that more users costs the operator more money. The point of software is that that doesn't apply; doubling the number of Ubuntu users does not, at least in theory, double your cost to make Ubuntu.
[14:28] <ali1234> that's not actually true at all
[14:28] <hamitron> I still think a software project is best to have some form of income somehow, to fund support and development
[14:28] <ali1234> more users = more bug reports and support requests
[14:28] <aquarius> services provided as part of Ubuntu I *do* pay for (or I would for those that I use if they weren't a company benefit).
[14:29] <ali1234> especially if said users are completely non-technical
[14:29] <aquarius> hamitron, yep, which is why I donate, and why I support what Bryan Lunduke's doing right now.
[14:29] <ali1234> i stopped supporting family members windows computers for free. i just say "i dunno, i don't use windows"
[14:29] <hamitron> tbh, I'd feel happier if I had to pay for ubuntu
[14:29] <ali1234> if you make it so that they all want me to install ubuntu i will have to switch to *bsd
[14:30] <hamitron> hehe
[14:30] <diplo> aquarius: You tried any of Bryans software ?
[14:31] <ali1234> thing is it doesn't cost canonical anything to do this because they can just point to the support package but it costs the community who provide free support
[14:31] <aquarius> hamitron, well, one good way to support Ubuntu is to become a paying user of Ubuntu One, of course. :)
[14:31] <aquarius> diplo, I bought Linux Tycoon fairly recently. I haven't tried the development stuff (I'm happy with my own development environment :))
[14:31] <hamitron> I don't pay out for things, if others can get it for free
[14:31] <hamitron> ;)
[14:32] <hamitron> if I'm paying £10, others can too
[14:32] <aquarius> others *do* too... not sure I'm understanding you?
[14:32] <diplo> heh, keep debate trying his DE, but haven't yet.. ought to get linux tycoon just to see what it's like and to support the guy, been watching there stuff for years
[14:33] <hamitron> aquarius, I don't see why some should contribute, when others don't
[14:33] <hamitron> and it just makes me feel "why bother?"
[14:33] <diplo> Ooh SpaceX Dragon due to depart tomorrow and splash down
[14:33] <aquarius> hamitron, I am confused. No-one gets U1 for free (or everyone does, depending on your point of view). There's no them-and-us here?
[14:34] <diplo> Got me interested in space again
[14:34] <hamitron> aquarius, I'm talking about ubuntu :)
[14:34] <aquarius> hamitron, oh, right, gotcha. :)
[14:35] <kvarley> popey: Got a working image
[14:35] <hamitron> if I want a service, sure I'll pay for it. but not getting a service to subsidise free software, that many just use for free
[14:35] <kvarley> popey: Need to try and make it smaller, I want it to fit on a 256 MB card. Currently I don't think it will
[14:35] <popey> awesome!
[14:36] <kvarley> Indeed
[14:36] <aquarius> hamitron, oh, definitely. I certainly don't think that you should think of buying U1 just to subsidise Ubuntu development! Buy U1 because you like U1. :)
[14:36] <ali1234> it seems counter productive to buy something i don't want in order to support something that i do want which is free
[14:36] <hamitron> ali1234, exactly
[14:36] <aquarius> I don't think anyone's suggesting that you do that, are they? If I'm being misread as advocating that, then I'll rephrase. :)
[14:36] <ali1234> that goes for t-shirts, hats, and over priced memory sticks too
[14:37] <aquarius> popey, do you have thoughts on the macbook Ubuntu-in-vm-versus-baremetal question? I know you've had some experience here :)
[14:37] <aquarius> ali1234, I agree. What I bought from the canonical shop was notebooks, because I needed notebooks and I think our ones are really nice. :)
[14:38] <popey> aquarius: ask gmb
[14:38] <popey> i no longer have a MBP
[14:38] <aquarius> popey, aha, wisdom -- yeah, I know you moved away, just wondering what your previous thoughts were :)
[14:38] <aquarius> gmb, ping!
[14:38]  * hamitron congrats popey 
[14:38] <popey> i still love the mbp, but only when it's running osx
[14:39] <popey> my thoughts where i was never truly happy about it on the bare metal
[14:39]  * hamitron withdraws his actions
[14:39] <popey> skippy touchpad, crappy nvidia, poor battery life
[14:39] <hamitron> they do look nice though
[14:39] <popey> there's a lot to like
[14:40] <aquarius> popey, k, that's my worry, indeed. Suggestions above are that Ubuntu doesn't work right in a VM either, so the implication here is that you're just shit out of luck if you've got an MBP and want to try Ubuntu, which rather scuppers my plan
[14:40] <popey> your plan?
[14:41] <aquarius> popey, <aquarius> Mac question: mate of mine has a macbook and wants to try Ubuntu. Should I suggest that he runs it on the metal with bootcamp, or in some sort of VM, and if so in which VM? He's an architect, so he'll be using OS X a lot -- this is not a one-step total-changeover migration, but I'd like him to try Ubuntu and see what he thinks, and he's interested in it aesthetically.
[14:41] <popey> its fine in a vm
[14:41] <popey> virtualbox
[14:41] <ali1234> unity doesn't work in current virtualbox, you get unity-2d instead
[14:42] <AlanBell> it does work in virtualbox
[14:42] <davmor2> ali1234: it does if you enable the 3d
[14:42] <popey> thats not my experience
[14:42] <ali1234> i have enabled 3d. it still doesn't work
[14:42] <popey> just install virtualbox-x11-guest package in the guest
[14:42] <AlanBell> you have to install virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 in the guest
[14:42] <AlanBell> and check the box
[14:42] <ali1234> that too
[14:42] <hamitron> I found unity-3d slow in vmware workstation, with the new drivers
[14:42] <popey> or a similarly named package ☺
[14:42] <popey> i have it working here
[14:43] <ali1234> basically you can expect, at the very least, to spend a few hours to a day tweaking it to get it to work
[14:43] <AlanBell> or it just works
[14:43] <davmor2> aquarius: I know a couple of devs that have Ubuntu running in vm on macs might not be mbp but they are happy with it
[14:43] <ali1234> yeah it just works after you install some random packages, reboot, and reconfigure the VM
[14:43] <ali1234> or, as in my case, it makes no difference at all
[14:44] <hamitron> isn't the idea of getting a Mac, to have a complete product anyway?
[14:44] <ali1234> no doubt any problems with bare metal could be resolved with roughly the same amount of effort
[14:44] <davmor2> ali1234: it works for me , popey and AlanBell I make the suggestion therefore that you missed a step :P
[14:44] <popey> his friend already has the mac
[14:44] <popey> so the goal maybe for aquarius to allow his friend to try ubuntu
[14:45] <hamitron> I guess
[14:45] <hamitron> :/
[14:45] <popey> given thats what he just said
[14:46] <aquarius> hamitron, indeed. He's already got a Mac, and he already uses OS X. I'd like him to try Ubuntu, and he's expressed an interest in doing so, but "spend a thousand pounds on a new computer" is too high a hurdle for him to jump. :)
[14:46] <ali1234> lol mac users think spending a thousand pounds on a computer is normal
[14:46] <hamitron> I can relate to that, been someone who hates spending money ;D
[14:46] <aquarius> *I* think spending a thousand pounds on a computer is normal.
[14:47] <ali1234> why?
[14:47] <ali1234> that better include a £600 monitor
[14:47] <hamitron> tbh, I'll spend upto £1600 still
[14:47] <hamitron> but it sure as hell better last at least 10 years ;D
[14:47] <popey> my latest computer setup was over 1000
[14:48] <popey> 700 for the laptop, and about 150 for the dock and 150 for the screen
[14:48] <aquarius> because I buy a computer for three years. I spend, roughly, twelve hours a day in front of it. That works out at a pound a day, in order to make my 12 hours be lovely rather than at best OK. That, to me, is a *superb* investment.
[14:48] <ali1234> so it does incude a £600 monitor then?
[14:48] <davmor2> my last laptop was 350 and my last pc update was 160 am I doing it all wrong?
[14:49]  * TheOpenSourcerer haz new phone :-)
[14:49] <aquarius> Someone who does some light photography would happily spend three or four hundred quid on a camera which they'll use once a week. I use my computer more than anything at all in my life other than my hands and cigarettes. I want it to be excellent.
[14:49] <aquarius> davmor2, if that does everything you want, not at all; you're fine :)
[14:50] <hamitron> hmmm, I bet coffee is more expensive per hour, than my comp..... thinking about it :/
[14:50] <aquarius> I wanted a machine which had great battery life and was very light and was very thin and looked beautiful in my opinion and ran Ubuntu. So I bought my machine, which cost nine hundred. Like I say, I think that's a worthwhile investment.
[14:50] <ali1234> oh
[14:50] <davmor2> aquarius: mind you I might treat myself to a new monitor that is nearly as expensive as my last pc upgrade :D
[14:50] <ali1234> you bought a desktop replacement laptop?
[14:51] <aquarius> davmor2, I've heard lots of people saying that buying a really good monitor is also a worthwhile investment. Mine was pretty cheap, and it's only 21"
[14:51] <aquarius> ali1234, I only have one machine, indeed; just the laptop.
[14:51] <AlanBell> my current laptop is the cheapest I have ever had at £350 ish, plus £40 for 8GB ram and £200 or so for an SSD, and I use a £150ish monitor with it
[14:51] <popey> oh, yeah, ssd, 200 quid
[14:52] <popey> mouse and keyboard free! :D
[14:52] <aquarius> back to the Mac thing: if we're of the collective opinion that the Ubuntu experience on an MBP isn't nice enough for non-technical people yet (it takes too much configuration, or it doesn't quite work right, or the hardware isn't well supported) then I am fine with that conclusion: I am happy to say to my mate that it's not ready for him yet. I'd *rather* do that than say "it is ready" and have it be crap for him,
[14:52] <aquarius> because then I'll have burned him and it'll be much harder to win him back later.
[14:53] <ali1234> it's like that everywhere
[14:53] <aquarius> but I do not know enough about this to answer that question, hence asking you guys because you're all clever. :P
[14:53] <ali1234> if you've been spoiled by a mac you're not going to get along with ubuntu
[14:54] <ali1234> basically unless they buy a computer with ubuntu preinstalled, it's not going to be easy enough for a typical mac user
[14:54] <AlanBell> not sure I agree with that
[14:54] <ali1234> if otoh you can make it through the installer and know how to use google, all the problems are trivial.. but the same can be said of any linux distro
[14:56] <hamitron> I agree with the point about not tainting their view on ubuntu with a poor experience, but dunno otherwise
[14:56] <hamitron> ;)
[14:57] <ali1234> as i said, the only way you'll actually know is if you try it out. because there's almost as many different mac hardware configurations as there are PCs
[14:57] <popey> oooh, i see a postal delivery van with my pi on it outside
[14:57]  * popey skips to the door
[14:57]  * hamitron grumbles
[14:58] <diplo> I want to upgrade SQLite on a old os, anyway of checking what might be dependant on it software wise ?
[14:58] <aquarius> if *I* could borrow his machine for a weekend and try it, I would, but I can't :)
[14:59] <aquarius> diplo, apt-cache rdepends sqlite (if you're upgrading sqlite v2).
[14:59] <hamitron> aquarius, I'd personally get him to boot off an external hdd
[14:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> I got a Galaxy S3 from the delivery van a short while ago. And a Galaxy 10.1 Tab too.
[14:59] <ali1234> actually i have two things i want to add
[14:59] <ali1234> firstly if you're waiting for it to be perfect you'll be waiting a long time
[14:59] <hamitron> then no harm if he doesn't like it
[14:59] <aquarius> diplo, apt-cache rdepends sqlite3 if you're on sqlite v3 already (but then it is very unlikely that an upgrade will break anything because it's a minor upgrade only)
[15:00] <aquarius> hamitron, that's why I was wondering about VMs.
[15:00] <ali1234> secondly, is the type of person who will throw a fit and never use ubuntu again at the very first problem, really the type of person you want to attract in the first place?
[15:00] <diplo> aquarius: I built the packages so I could break everything :D
[15:00] <diplo> But thanks, will look now
[15:00] <aquarius> diplo, oh. You're on your own, in that case. Soz ;-)
[15:00] <diplo> heh, Just covering my arse in backups is all
[15:01] <diplo> Want to make sure I can reinstall anything I break
[15:01] <diplo> If I break*
[15:01]  * hamitron would just backup *everything*
[15:01] <ali1234> diplo: you could do a global search for sqlite databases, then try to determine which software each belongs to :)
[15:01] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: I expect a full review of the samsung galaxy s3 by end of day with no less than a 1000 words ;)  It's great just won't cut it :)
[15:01]  * diplo doesn't have disc space
[15:01] <hamitron> :/
[15:01] <diplo> I did think that ali1234
[15:02] <ali1234> something like find / -exec file {}\; | grep sqlite
[15:02] <ali1234> then wait a *really* long time
[15:02] <ali1234> then lsof etc
[15:02] <diplo> do all Sqlite db's have to end in .db ?
[15:02] <diplo> Or just a preference
[15:03]  * diplo never touched SQLite till yesterday
[15:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Nope. Not enough time. After I've used it for a few weeks I might get round to it, but it wouldn't be fair IMHO to review it without actually using it for a while.
[15:03] <popey> I am inclined to think that an osx user will not think ubuntu is a step up, yet.
[15:04] <popey> especially on mac hardware
[15:04] <popey> however on a pc, they might
[15:04] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: hahahahaha enjoy
[15:04] <popey> i have a friend who has only macs in the house, she wanted a netbook for her daughter, but refuses to have windows
[15:04] <ali1234> diplo: no
[15:04] <popey> i installed ubuntu on it, works a treat
[15:06] <hamitron> time for tea and cakes
[15:45] <czajkowski> CAKE!
[15:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: calm down it's only and advert
[15:46] <czajkowski> need cak e
[15:46]  * AlanBell needs sleep
[15:46] <AlanBell> and cake
[15:48] <dwatkins> beware of cake... ;)
[15:48] <diplo> yum /me also needs sleep
[15:48] <diplo> arse!
[15:48] <kirrus> Now i'd quite like cake..
[15:48] <diplo> But I have promised to go on a 20 mile bike ride in 50mins :(
[15:48]  * kirrus wonders where the nearest decent cake dispensery is
[15:48] <dwatkins> diplo: I often see people use /me either in the middle of a line or in systems which don't support it, I didn't even notice it might be anything other than normal in your line
[15:49] <dwatkins> I have to cycle home, not really got a lot of choice about it. It's 5 miles.
[15:50] <diplo> dwatkins: I have to cycle home first as well, just shy of 5 miles
[15:50] <diplo> Then 20 mile bike ride, also did a 10 mile pub walk last night and a mile each way on my bike
[15:50] <diplo> For me this is fitness++
[15:51] <diplo> I'm normally hogging the sofa
[15:51] <diplo> :)
[15:51] <dwatkins> Yeah, I know what you mean - I'm cycling to work to a) save money and b) get fit
[15:52] <dwatkins> I ordered an xbox game yesterday, which I'll have to cycle for two weeks to afford, in a sense.
[15:52] <dwatkins> (each day cycled saves me about 1.40 GBP in diesel)
[15:53] <dwatkins> this doesn't take wear-and-tear on the car into account, of course.
[15:53] <diplo> I've not worked mine out, just decided that the tanks been kinda empty recently and it's lovely whether so I ought to make the most of it, downside is I'm making up for Calories burnt by drinking beer on these rides
[15:53] <diplo> :P
[15:57] <dwatkins> yeah, I tend to get home from cycling to and from work and get a couple beers on the way.
[15:59] <diplo> Right, talking of home \o/
[16:00] <diplo> Let's not think about the cycling part
[16:14] <Azelphur> O.O we just had some epic monster monsoon, hail everywhere, took a tile off our roof
[16:16] <andylockran> vdfgsdhowdy
[16:16] <andylockran> where's that Azelphur
[16:16] <Azelphur> andylockran: margate
[16:16] <andylockran> sat in Manchester Piccadilly and the weather outside is gorgeous
[16:16] <andylockran> heading down to Euston on the 18.35
[16:16] <andylockran> I miss Manchester a little bit
[16:18] <BigRedS> dwatkins: nor the cost spent on the bike, though :)
[16:18] <BigRedS> I used to love seeing people start cycling in marchish to save money, and notice it becoming a horrendously expsnsive hobby for them come july
[16:18] <Azelphur> I literally sprinted across the street to get back to my house and close the window (Was at neighbours) and by the time I made it across the street I was completely soaked through and through
[16:18] <Azelphur> just for crossing the road, lol
[16:19] <Azelphur> my computers next to the window so have to close it when it rains :p
[16:20] <oimon> to join my union costs £18 per month LOL
[16:20] <oimon> what a rip off
[16:36] <Azelphur> https://twitter.com/Azelphur/status/207871270493229056/photo/1 remains of my roof xD
[16:39] <davmor2> MooDoo: there is and amd64 app being released to USC that is early in the release process that you might be interested in called "black silk"  as soon as it is published I'll let you know
[16:41] <popey> sounds rude
[16:42] <davmor2> popey: no it just makes black and white photography out of colour ones really nicely
[17:01]  * AlanBell wonders why "black silk" would be potentially rude
[17:01] <AlanBell> maybe I lack imagination
[17:34] <dwatkins> BigRedS: true, but I had the bike anyway ;) I'm planning on getting a new one once I start cycling regularly, however.
[17:36] <dwatkins> BigRedS: why did it get expensive in summer?
[18:05] <BigRedS> dwatkins: it just takes a few months for it to go from tool-for-commuting-on to expensive-hobby
[18:06] <BigRedS> and it's normally spring when people start riding again
[18:07] <dwatkins> ah I see, BigRedS - I'm already pondering how much I should spend, what kind of disc brakes, etc. so I guess I'm a good example of that :)
[18:07] <BigRedS> haha, yeah - where are you commuting? Disk brakes don't like cities
[18:08] <BigRedS> when you get oil on disk brake pads they stop working so well. We used to find (in London) that this equated to a few month's commuting in London air....
[18:11] <dwatkins> oh wow, I see
[18:12] <dwatkins> I live in Edinburgh, and most of my commute is along the canal.
[18:12] <dwatkins> I wonder how London affects non-disc brakes - friend of mine is living and studying there.
[18:15] <MartijnVdS> magnetic brakes!
[18:16] <kvarley> popey: http://kvarley.co.uk/RaspberryPi/OpenELEC/ - The .img of OpenELEC with XBMC is up there now hosted on  Ubuntu One =]
[18:16] <popey> sweeeet!
[18:16] <popey> I'm building ubuntu packages for my pi now
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> pibuntu?
[18:17] <popey> heh
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> I wonder how Unity performs on it
[18:17] <BigRedS> dwatkins: not so bad in summer. Can get through a set of pads in a few day's rain though
[18:17] <BigRedS> there really are several good reasons for the rise in popularity of fixies
[18:17] <popey> dount it will at all
[18:18] <popey> only 256MB RAM
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: it has 3d acceleration
[18:18] <dwatkins> BigRedS: wow, didn't realise they could wear down so fast
[18:18] <popey> not sure I have enough lifetimes to compile unity for it :D
[18:18] <dwatkins> popey: I'd be surprised if it were powerful, sadly
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: your children can continue the good work
[18:18] <dwatkins> *powerful enough
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> popey: also, cross-compiling
[18:19] <dwatkins> You can cross-compile for the RaspPi, though.
[18:19] <popey> i am
[18:19] <popey> on two i7s
[18:19] <kvarley> popey: POWERRRRRR
[18:19] <dwatkins> nice
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> -j16
[18:20] <dwatkins> I have a core i7 in my laptop at work, the OS sees 8 cores. I'm ashamed that I just use it for reading e-mails and browsing the web mostly, so I run vmware on it sometimes to make sure it doesn't get bored.
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: they give us ridiculously overpowered machines like that as well
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> while we do all of our work on one of the 32-core 128GB servers in the DC
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> \o/ ssh -X + gvim
[18:22]  * dwatkins grins
[18:23] <dwatkins> I used to work with clusters, ones which fill a sizeable room and have a couple petabytes of storage on the back row - they share them out to universities and chemical/oil companies, though
[18:36] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the end of that wish you were here, docu, is very sad, we knew it, but they never said.
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: The Syd Barrett story?
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I watched http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j2fcq yesterday
[18:41] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: the wish you were here, how they descibed syd at the end.
[18:43] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: it is well documented, that syd came to hear them record wish you were here album, but not said in the way they there.
[18:44] <brobostigon> said*
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I didn't see it :|
[18:46] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :(, you pointed me at it, as i forgot.
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yeah but it was on very late.. and somehow my "record satellite" script broke
[18:47] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :( not good.
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> I fixed it now, but too late
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> reboot had shuffled around DVB device numbers
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> (DVB-T, DVB-S)
[18:48] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, it was very emotional,
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> so it tried to record from DVB-T 8-)
[18:48] <brobostigon> ah.
[19:05] <ahayzen> Question: Hi, I've been using unity with autohide set to ON. I just brought up the HUD and you get a ~3px wide line down the left side (looks like the dash border) - I guess because the launcher isn't there the border is overflowing into the desktop. Is that supposed to happen or should I report a bug? Thanks, Andy
[19:25] <jacobw> i'm really liking unity in 12.04 :)
[19:25] <jacobw> <bill hicks>a positive unity story!</bill hicks>
[19:46] <popey> jacobw: thats good to hear
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> it's not getting in my way at least :P
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> well the HUD is, but that's disableable
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> (nice word, disableable)
[19:51] <AlanBell> easily turn on and offable
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yes, like that :)
[20:02] <directhex> wharrgarbl
[20:03] <brobostigon> directhex: what is your opinion on qnx.?
[20:03] <directhex> brobostigon, covered in bees
[20:04] <brobostigon> directhex: that is illogical,
[20:05] <brobostigon> software cannot be covered in bees.
[20:05] <directhex> clearly you've never seen an embedded arm vendor's kernel patches
[20:05] <directhex> bees as far as the eye can see
[20:05] <ali1234> heheheh
[20:05] <brobostigon> directhex: i have not, no.
[20:06] <ali1234> think yourself lucky to even get patches
[20:10] <dwatkins> directhex: sounds like a reference to Invader Zim (covered in bees)
[20:10] <shauno> eddie izzard surely?
[20:11] <brobostigon> directhex: ok, what about blackberry's qnx implementation, ?
[20:11] <dwatkins> ah, didn't know that
[20:12] <dwatkins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-tl6GBOBo explains all about this 'covered in bees' reference :)
[20:13] <directhex> brobostigon, ultimately qnx is a decent RTOS, but i'm confused as to why you'd use an RTOS on a mobile phone, and RIM is in freefall so i'm not sure their OS has much life left. BBX needed to happen several years earlier
[20:13] <directhex> is it even shipping on phones yet, or just the playbook?
[20:13] <penguin42> dwatkins: I was assuming it was a reference to blackberreees
[20:13] <dwatkins> penguin42: ahhhh
[20:14] <brobostigon> directhex: from what i have read, and as they advertise, os10, will appear on the playbook.
[20:15] <directhex> brobostigon, but the playbook was a failure out of the door. and blackberry os, on phones, is junk. so what do we have?
[20:16] <brobostigon> directhex: why was the playbook a failiure. it seems like fairly good hw from my view.
[20:18] <brobostigon> directhex: aswell, as from what i have read, wihtin their qnx implementation,  alot of things have been fixed.
[20:20] <directhex> brobostigon, nobody bought them, even when they halved the price?
[20:20] <directhex> and RIM shares are tumbling
[20:22] <brobostigon> directhex: very true, yes.but i was wondering as to the hw, and their qnx implementation. than the rest of the company.
[20:22] <directhex> fine, then
[20:22] <directhex> good Qt platform
[20:23] <brobostigon> yes.
[20:23] <directhex> well, the qt hackers i know say it's a good qt platform, anyway
[20:24] <directhex> good enough that they're dumping the android layer in favour of native qt apps
[20:24] <brobostigon> intereting.
[20:24] <brobostigon> ok.
[20:28] <brobostigon> directhex: i am thinking about my own birthday pressie to myself, a new toy, or an acoustic drum kit.
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> your neighbors will love you :P
[20:30] <brobostigon> yeah, :)
[20:31] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: but they do already, with the bass tube i have,
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> haha :)
[20:32] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: my dad drove up once, and he said, and i quote, he could hear it, before he stepped out of the car.
[20:36] <directhex> brobostigon, hear it, or feel the vibrations in his kidneys? :p
[20:36] <brobostigon> directhex: yeah.
[20:42] <dogmatic69> anyone have creative ideas for running cat5 from the lounge (ground floor) to the loft (2nd story)
[20:42] <directhex> dogmatic69, drill a hole in the ceiling?
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: 16mm pipe?
[20:43] <dogmatic69> directhex: its like a foot of concrete i think
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> (PVC)
[20:43] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: what do I do with the pipe then?
[20:43] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: good point
[20:43]  * dogmatic69 bought outside-duty cat5
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> We used to stick ethernet cable next to the central heating pipes back home
[20:44] <dogmatic69> was thinking of running it up the wall out side
[20:44] <ali1234> there's a foot of concrete between the ground floor and the loft?
[20:44] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: that will slow down my downloads... :P
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: sounds like a normal house to me
[20:44] <directhex> dogmatic69,  http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7094/6999689228_fc7c5a0093_o_d.jpg
[20:44] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: how?
[20:44] <ali1234> do you live in a nuclear bunker?
[20:44] <dogmatic69> ali1234: no, first and ground
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: no central heating then?
[20:45] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: when stuff is cold, its more dense. travels faster. (marginal i know)
[20:45] <dogmatic69> :P
[20:45] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: so run coolant though the pipes
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> who needs heat when you have a 500W PC :P
[20:46] <dogmatic69> GF <3's central heating... it can be 25'C and its on
[20:46] <dogmatic69> *750w + 2 blade servers :)
[20:47] <dogmatic69> Don't even have a ladder that can reach for attaching the cat5 outside.
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> however, ladders like that do exist and are for sale
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> or scissor lifts, for rent
[20:48] <AlanBell> dogmatic69: ethernet over power or wifi?
[20:48] <AlanBell> wifi with wires at both ends perhaps
[20:48] <MartijnVdS> I have a 30cm wall
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> just got a huge drill and made a hole for 4x cat5
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> cat5e really
[20:49] <MartijnVdS> this is 1969 concrete so it's quite hard too
[20:49] <dogmatic69> I am trying to get away from wifi. My office is on the first floor and does not get good signal, and its about 20 feet max away.
[20:49] <dogmatic69> I got a extender and that does not work too good either
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: http://www.wikihow.com/Drill-Into-Concrete
[20:50] <dogmatic69> also I am mounting things from the blades (also on wifi atm) and when the signal drops my desktop will almost crash
[20:51] <popey> i put my access point in the middle of the house
[20:51] <popey> and it's plugged into an ethernet-over-power device with another connected in my office to the internet box
[20:51] <popey> job done, wifi coverage over the whole house
[20:51] <directhex> sleeeepy
[20:51]  * MartijnVdS has a small house, so an AP anywhere gives enough coverage
[20:51] <popey> heh
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> especially on 5GHz, where I'm the first ;)
[20:52] <popey> i dont have a big house, its just my main access point is in the very corner, opposite to the bedroom ☺
[20:52] <popey> you can sometimes _just_ get a signal
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> popey: get a higher-power AP :)
[20:53]  * MartijnVdS has a Linksys E3200
[20:53] <popey> oh I'm fine now with my netgear wndr3700 + ddwrt
[20:53] <dogmatic69> one big problem is sky.
[20:54] <dogmatic69> complete rubbish
[20:54] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: come to nl.. we have good ISPs
[20:54] <popey> \o/ virgin
[20:55] <dogmatic69> Called sky to cancel 2 months ago...
[20:55] <dogmatic69> waiting for some number in the post
[20:55] <Azelphur> random question, how on earth can it hail when the temperature outside is as warm as it is o.O
[20:56] <dogmatic69> Azelphur: the hail is not formed on the ground :)
[20:56] <Azelphur> I guess, the temperature difference between ground and air must have been insane
[20:56] <dogmatic69> the warmth might actually help it
[20:56] <Azelphur> yea, maybe that's why the weather went so nuts
[20:57] <dogmatic69> hail forms when drops freeze, hit warm air and rise again. repeat until to large to float any more
[20:57] <Azelphur> ah, that'd explain it then :)
[20:58] <dogmatic69> I'm no meteorologist but enjoyed geography at school
[20:59] <dogmatic69> wiki says the ideal temp is -13'C up to, so almost 50'C difference
[21:02] <Azelphur> fun
[21:02] <Azelphur> I guess we had a bit of a perfect storm then, all the ice built up and came down at the same time
[22:13] <davmor2> gord: no co-working space tomorrow, by the sound of it it's only me going to be there