[00:00] grr. how do i sign myself out completely? [00:01] oh. i just kicked my other user name out. yay! [00:01] thanks for the info, snap_l [00:10] air seems pointless if you're going to run ubuntu [00:10] can get an ultrabook for cheaper [00:10] good point. i just want something that will either Just Work with ubuntu or Just Work regardless. and the Air will Just Work. [00:11] for some definition of work [00:11] i'm not using it to "work". [00:11] i will have a desktop for that. ;) [00:17] desktop at home and a CAD laptop for "work" stuff. job stuff, i mean. [00:21] oh, and it's my first foray into building my own machine this weekend. [00:21] i'm armed with parts and a boyfriend who will help me. wish me luck! :) [00:22] omg omg omg omg " Lenovo says it will offer a 1600 x 900 screen option when the X230 goes on sale and, if thatâs the case, we recommend you splurge for the additional pixels." [00:22] really? [00:22] what's the price point on that? [00:22] just saw that in a hands on review of the new upcoming x230 [00:22] it's going to be $$ [00:23] think it'll start around 1100ish [00:23] eeee! [00:23] entry level air is 939 at BB right now. [00:23] Good machines aren't cheap [00:23] i know that. [00:24] yea, I mean I've not bought a desktop since this last x210 [00:24] gamerchick02_: That's probably because the air is due for refresh [00:24] i'm at a point now that i can get what i want and not what i can afford. [00:24] it's been my daily driver for over 2yrs doing 100% of my work and travel [00:24] i want to be able to upgrade the computer. [00:24] yea, ivy bridge for the macs is coming soon [00:24] laptop is un-upgradable. i'm also not doing a lot of traveling with the current laptop i have. [00:25] just home. i'm going to install Mint on this one and then offload it to my mom. i think [00:25] we'll see how she likes it. [00:49] People still hate Miguel de Izaca? What did he do wrong exactly? [00:49] i have no idea. who is that? [00:51] i don't think anyone credible hates him [00:51] A founder of GNOME and Mono [00:51] oh. [00:52] cool. i guess i'm a heathen because i like stuff like Banshee (mono) and i'm thinking of getting a macbook air. [00:52] heh [01:00] I just always though his contributions would should probably make him one of the more accomplished open source developers in open source history, not the personfication of Mircrosoft I think some people may actually hold for him. [01:01] If you're going to draw us vs them arguements into open/closed source debate, I have no idea why you would put make him out to be an enemy [01:27] Milyardo: Some people don't know how to let go of a grudge [01:28] Milyardo: now he has that whole mono for mobile business, but no linux client [01:28] too practical, not enough freetard [01:33] Yeah, because everyone has welcomed mono on Linux [01:33] stupid power outage [01:33] power outage? :( [01:33] last night [01:33] awww. [01:33] low voltage [01:33] storms? [01:33] yea [01:34] ah. [01:34] not enough to run the fan [01:34] http://soundcloud.com/bluestahli/beastie-boys-sabotage-blue [01:34] it made just barely some air current [01:34] ugh. and last night was hot too. [01:34] I keep talking about wanting to install bsd on this workstation [01:34] yea I kept waking up sweating [01:35] It bothers me slightly that my laptop is now more powerful than my workstation... but I'm not home enough [01:36] derekv, i've never tried BSD. read about it. [01:36] Trying to decide if I want to upgrade ram on it, upgrade the whole thing or hold off [01:36] hope you cool off tonight. round these parts it's supposed to be about 55F tonight. [01:36] it feels nice out now [01:36] snap-l, that song you sent is interesting. [01:37] gamerchick02_, FreeBSD is tight. Its just... clean and well organized [01:38] cool. [01:38] repos and all that like linux? [01:38] the entire software management system works off of makefiles [01:38] its called ports [01:38] http://engineering.twitter.com/2012/05/improving-performance-on-twittercom.html [01:39] cool, derekv. i appreciate the information. [01:40] basically there is a package installer, packages are normal tarballs .tar.gz with a standard layout inside, and you can fetch the packages precompiled as you would with say apt [01:41] oooh. very cool. thanks! [01:41] but typically you install "ports" which is a directory structure with thousands of directories, make scripts and patches. go to the directory and type "make install", it downloads the source, applys patches and builds, sticks into a tar.gz and passes this to the package installer =] [01:41] of course taking in any dependancies recursively [01:41] nice. sounds simple, actually. [01:41] and it works really well [01:42] the gentoo portage system is based off of it. portage adds a lot of powerful features but they overshoot the mark, its a lot less reliable than the bsd system is [01:42] reliable [01:43] didn't look like it was spelled right [01:43] gentoo is a project. or anyway, it has the reputation of being a project. [01:43] any linux distro can be a project if it doesn't play well with your hardware. [01:43] everything is a project [01:44] oh you mean for the users [01:44] :-D true. [01:44] i mean for the person setting it up, yes. [01:44] yea gentoo would rather be a project I think... they want to be easy but not if it means sacrificing some control somewhere [01:45] gentoo: the distro for control freaks. [01:45] its meant to give you basically the power of if you custom rolled your own but being a lot easier than that (which it is) [01:45] exactly [01:45] :) [01:45] but its still a pain in my ass sometimes [01:45] heh. [01:46] I also find it to be a pain in the ass when you take away control of something, and I end up missing it [01:46] I guess if your using debian or ubuntu and you run up against that a lot, then you need to go somewhere [01:46] true. [01:46] Which I did at one point at least [01:46] Not sure how true that'd be for me now [01:47] I'd always want some feature you needed to compile in [01:47] i do like ubuntu, even though it pulls some control away from me. partly because it works. i mean, i don't have to think too hard with it. hehe. i think that might be a bad thing. [01:47] Or I want x software without bringing in all of KDE [01:47] ah. yes. [01:47] the old "i want to run a KDE app without all of KDE coming along with it" problem. [01:48] the bsd system does it a little bit sometimes... its more inbetween [01:48] that works [01:48] it gives you some "knobs" for things like kde ... hopefully the port will respect it, if not you have the option of going in and playing with the makefile a little bit [01:49] ah. a good compromise, sounds like. [01:49] its nice too if you don't want to wait to compile it yourself and the defaults are fine you can just pull the packages from ftp [01:49] ala apt [01:50] sweet. i might try that sometime. [01:50] but, i do need to go to bed soon. [01:50] =] [01:50] night [01:50] almost 10 pm. this whole work thing is getting in my way of internet chat. [01:50] :) see everyone tomorrow! :) [02:47] http://decafbad.net/2012/05/29/variations-of-goldberg-variations/ [03:38] If anyone wants to try out the MUG on-line membership sign-up, please see here: http://www.mug.org/membership/ [03:39] I'm not sure it's working properly, but if you want to provude feedback, please let me know [03:55] snap-l: cool! [04:33] Good evening all, testing out an android app. Can anyone see this? [04:45] shakes808, seen [11:36] good morning all [11:37] This message is from my phone [11:37] boots me off :( [11:40] boot [11:46] Good morning everyone! [11:48] zzzzz [11:57] I went to bed at 9:30 last night. It's great to be alive! [11:58] Johnny 5 IS ALIVE! [12:03] "Celebrating Programming Windows [12:03] Way to be a downer, O'reilly [12:07] What is the MUG discount code? Want to see if it applies to that book for S's & G's [12:08] DSUG [12:09] said discount was applied, but no change in price lol [12:10] i think it shows at the very end [12:10] Oh [12:11] in checkout and still not applied. When you say end, after payment is going through? [12:13] no, should be before payment [12:13] are you trying to apply 2 codes? [12:13] lol [12:13] no [12:13] just one [12:13] i think DSUG only applies on non-sale items [12:13] it is already $10 [12:14] and was seeing if it would go lower :DE [12:14] so if it's already discounted because it's the deal of the day, DSUG won't get you more [12:14] gotcha [12:20] Do you think this is worth it? http://www.oreillyschool.com/certificates/python-programming.php [12:24] and will our discount apply? I don't want to mock sign up in fear that it will sign me up lol [12:25] shakes808: I think the discount only applies to books [12:25] can try it, though [12:26] snap-l: alright, not going to do it quite yet lol. Do you think those would be worth it? They are accredited by the University of Illionois ... [12:27] $500 a course seems pretty steep [12:27] I have no idea [12:27] for an online course [12:27] They're worth it if you respond to the classroom environment better than self-learning [12:27] and I can't answer that for you. :) [12:28] If you spent most of your college years sitting in the back of the class, not paying attention, then probably not. ;) [12:28] HA HA, damn [12:28] lol [13:06] jcastro: Happy Anniversary [13:06] thanks dude! [13:07] hey so it's looking more and more like ann arbor [13:07] I'm not opposed to this [13:07] as long as it isn't Borculo [13:07] or BFE [13:12] Hey, what's wrong with Borculo? [13:13] My ancestors founded Borculo [13:21] I rest my case [13:22] Watch yourself or I'll send the Dutch Mafia to rough you up. You'll hear them coming because of their shoes, but you won't outrun their whips woven of last year's tulip stems [13:22] I thought it was a $100 to even think impure thoughts about a tulip [13:23] I think that's only in Holland proper [13:24] And what sort of impure tulip thoughts are you having? [13:26] Speaking of impure thoughts, good morning, _stink_ [13:29] <_stink_> :O [13:30] shakes808: certificates are rarely worth it. and NEVER worth it when it is open source tech. [13:30] jcastro: YAY! welcome to AA [13:30] jcastro: i only wish you were also looking for new work, so I could try and recruit you. [13:30] jrwren: where do you guys live? [13:31] jcastro: we live in Milan, which is NOT AA. it sucks. But we are looking to move to AA soon. [13:32] jcastro: if you need an AA realtor let me know. I know a guy who is very good. [13:32] I think n0p_ used him and was happy. [13:33] I thought you loved Milan [13:33] jrwren: we have a USAA approved realtor, but I'd love his info anyway, can you email it to me? [13:33] sure. [13:33] USAA? [13:34] it's my bank/mortgage for my va loan [13:34] brousch: no. i love the brewery. I don't like living where I love. [13:34] I call them and they assign me certain realtors [13:34] haha, castro@oakland.edu just came up in my addrlist. you prefer canonical or gmail? [13:35] jorge@ubuntu.com [13:35] actually, funnily enough, they gave jill that address when she went to OU [13:35] ha! [13:35] i'm surprised at that. [13:37] jrwren: thank you for the insight. Just continue with the free stuff ;) Sounds good to me :D [13:37] jrwren: yeah it's weird [13:38] rick_h_: Sent JoDee a bookie invite. [13:39] rick_h_: so now you're on the hook. :) [13:40] hah [13:41] snap-l: thanks for the heads up [14:27] shakes808: How old are you? do you know why certifications exist? [14:30] jrwren: 27, and thought to get specific training/learning without the extra stuff [14:58] they mostly exist so people with no practical experience can put stuff on their resumes [15:15] shakes808: no. Certifications exist for resellers and partner certification. e.g. Cisco & MSFT. Cisco & MSFT partner companies are required to keep a certain number of certified people on staff to keep their certification. [15:15] so if you want to work for that kind of company, then certifications are great. If you want to do other things, then certifications are useless (and possibly detrimental). [15:15] It's a convenient way set up for hiring managers to know what the competencies of their staff are. [15:16] Much like saying you need 4 years of college [15:16] that is an occasional side effect, but not the primary purpose. [15:16] It doesn't mean you currently know whatever you're certified in, it just means you paid money to get a piece of paper [15:17] sssh, don't tell the hiring managers that ;) [15:17] If I were doing something with Cisco routers, I'd want someone Cisco-certified, because I haven't a clue about Cisco routers. [15:17] really? [15:18] s/Cisco/RHEL/g does the statement still hold? [15:18] and the assumption is that the certification would somehow certify the work you're doing on the router [15:18] jrwren: Only because I trust RHEL [15:18] I don't trust MSCE [15:18] i don't trust any of them. [15:19] jrwren: Well, given a pinch of time, I'd probably trust a Cisco / RHEL [15:19] that said, back in '99 before RHEL, the redhat cert was VERY good. the hands on labs portion of the test was excellent [15:19] but agan, that's because I've never cracked the lid of a cisco router. [15:19] they don't have lids :p [15:19] You beer believe I'd be watching the RHEL like a hawk [15:19] jrwren: See? My point exactly. :) [15:20] you've never logged into IOS and configured some rules? [15:20] jrwren: Nope. Was always someone else's dept. [15:20] or catos ? [15:20] Closest I've come to Cisco was flashing my Linksys router. :) [15:20] yeah, so I guess I know enough having done a little to know better than to trust the guy with the entry level cisco certs. [15:21] I've looked at some IOS commands, and while it looks simple, I don't trust myself to not create circular routes, or what-not [15:22] gotchya, so no certs for me :D [15:22] shakes808: again, ir depends [15:22] you likely wouldn't create a certcular route, because you'd use a routing protocol. [15:22] if you're in an organization that treats certs like bars on a uniform, get the certs [15:22] and you'd not create a circular network because well, SPANNING TREE!! YAY! [15:23] most of the tech folks I know don't care for certs, they care for experience. [15:23] if you're in an organization that treats certs like bars on a uniform, find a new organization. [15:23] jrwren: That too [15:23] lol [15:23] gotcha [15:24] I've met some folks that were certified, that knew their stuff [15:24] as have i. [15:24] and I met some that I'm pretty sure graduated because chance smiled on them [15:24] or they cheated. [15:24] i'd consider getting certs if i worked for a company that was awesome and people were awesome and the certs would benefit the company. [15:24] I know a guy in the Networking realm of things that have over 30 certs for HP / CISCO / ..... [15:25] and in his realm they do make a difference [15:25] like you were saying [15:25] might be great to get some if you are going to start your own company so you are on track to become a partner company. [15:26] the network-related realm is probably different, but for software i consider it a negative if a resume goes by listing certifications [15:26] and being a partner company does have some awesome benefits. [15:26] Proprietary stuff really loves their certs [15:28] (and yes, I'd consider RHEL to be somewhat proprietary) [15:29] My last job was a Microsoft partner and if I were to go for my Microsoft certs, they would reimburse me for them :D [15:29] Would have been meh [15:29] lol [15:30] RHEL is definitely proprietary. [15:30] RHEL really only exists to run Oracle and related software. [15:30] because its whan oracle support.s. [15:31] wonder how long that'll last. :) [15:31] http://www.daskeyboard.com/products/ [15:32] Click the Kick Ass in the upper right [15:32] brousch: Yeah, that's awesome [15:33] Blazeix: I get bulk ammo too [15:35] That is cool, I have loaded that in with some stuff back in college and it never got wiped. [15:35] There is a javascript code you can put in your browser with the URL to put that on any site you want [15:35] I used MSN to show it off ;D [15:35] :D [15:38] I should do a web2py talk at PyOhio. The ultimate troll [15:39] Title it: "The best Python Web Framework" and then not mention any names in the synopsis [16:38] free RPG day is on June 16th [16:38] Good time to go to the local game store [16:40] ??? Free RPG Day ??? enlighten enlighten [16:40] http://www.freerpgday.com/ [16:40] http://gobretail.com/freerpgday2012.php [16:46] interesting [16:46] I will look more into it when I am at CHC tonight :D [17:03] RPGs? Do you worship Satan?! [17:09] only if he brings chips and pop [17:09] Mountain Dew and Cheetos [17:10] Diet Squirt and Cheese popcorn [17:10] clech [17:11] OH GOD! Diet what and what?!!! NO NO NO NO [17:11] http://www.thierryclech.com/ ? [17:12] brousch: PLease to be giving me a hint what that link is for? [17:13] snap-l: the first hit on Google for "clech" [17:13] man, i did not know that tentacles could do that. [17:13] brousch: Blech, rather [17:14] Blazeix: clech, not clench [17:17] i have a +3 ogre knife! [17:17] But you are in the bar getting drunk [17:17] good, if there are any girls there, I want to do them. [17:18] i know you said blue, but you have grey eyes. [17:18] has anyone seen the version from the game The Summoner [17:18] At what point did we do off the rails? [17:18] snap-l: since you brought up Free RPG Day!!!! of course [17:18] lol [17:20] wait, somebody is giving out rocket propelled grenades? [17:22] For free! [17:22] I'M THERE!!!!! [17:23] yes, the summoner video is hilarious [17:23] * brousch wonders how many anti-terrorism triggers we just activated [17:23] ha ha [17:23] brousch: six [17:24] knives, grenades [17:24] just need to say Obama or Bin Laden and we are set ;) [17:26] Is it like candyman where he appears if you say it three times in front of a mirror? [19:15] Does anyone know of a program that can compare images / power point docs? [19:17] compare? [19:17] yea [19:18] with ppt, isn't there a way to compare within the app itself? [19:18] not sure [19:18] will check [19:18] thought there was a way to "merge & compare" [19:19] interesting. Will look [19:19] you can use imagemagick to compare images in linux, as well as a ton of other apps out there [19:20] been looking and saw abonsoft [19:20] image compare [19:20] which there is a plugin for in gimp as a matter of fact [19:20] interesting [19:20] I found the "compare" in PPT, will have to test it out [19:21] i think you can compare with tineye as well. google for that one [19:24] what do you mean by compare? [19:30] the compare in PPT is just a merge tool it seems [20:09] http://www.sheldoncomics.com/strips/sd120530.png [20:10] hehe, i almost posted that [20:10] i have found two good answers on yahoo answers, ever [20:26] were they links to stack overflow? [20:27] heh, no [20:28] geez, these django projects get big [20:29] * waldo323_ hands brousch bzip2 [20:30] Man, this should not be this hard [20:30] thanks [20:31] FTR, the thanks was for waldo323_ for the bzip2, not for snap-l's hardness [20:31] lol [20:31] iso: document management CMS that handles group permissions, and doesn't look like shit [20:32] must be customizble [20:32] Have tried Joomla's extensios, concrete5, and drupal [20:32] are you dealing with one or trying to pick one? [20:32] trying to find one [20:33] closest we've come is drupal with CMIS backends (alfresco), but blergh [20:33] i'd offer up plone as an option but there are marks against it too [20:35] y'know, at this point plone is as good as any suggestion [20:35] i was looking for a decent document management software a while ago, but couldn't find one. [20:36] alfresco was leading the pack [20:36] snap-l: I saw one called EDMS [20:36] Yeah, that's what's leading now: drupal for front end shit, and alfresco for heavy lifting [20:37] I've been meaning to look at it, so feel free to do so for me ;) [20:37] http://rosarior.github.com/mayan/ [20:38] Oh, it's Django [20:38] so it MUST be good [20:38] Come on now. You've been looking at Joomla for Cchrist's sake [20:39] Django is like a wet dream compared to what you mentioned :P [20:41] just buy sharepoint and get over it :p [20:43] Version 0.13 development cycle started. [20:43] I feel better already [20:43] jrwren: If it was competitive for what we were looking for, sure [20:44] isn't the one thing that it does reasonably well, document management? [20:46] i haven't been very impressed by sharepoint 2010's document management [20:46] Blazeix: great to know. [20:47] usability-wise, it's lacking, and doesn't have stuff like inline-previews [20:47] Talk at you all later. Have a good night. See whoever will be at CHC tonight. [20:48] WEll, and if I was looking just for doc management, KnowledgeTree or Alfresco would be our top picks [20:48] i've heard it has a decent thick-client app you can install on windows, but i'm a bit leery of doing that [20:48] but I think we need some CMSey features to fit on top of it [20:49] it's sounding like plone is your main choice. that has the whole 'platform' thing going on [20:49] Yeah, sadly. [20:49] We were pretty close with Joomla, but the extensions either used the Joomla security model (ugh), or only supported one group [20:51] Blazeix: a sharepoint thick client? I've never heard of this for use. I've heard of it for development. [21:50] yuck, those last few Canonical blog posts to planet ubuntu were pathetic [21:59] jrwren: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint-workspace/ [21:59] a coworker was using the app, I think it was this. [22:00] he'd get dropbox style change notifications whenever a document was modified [22:14] Blazeix: https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Desktop_Dock_with_Pogo_Pin?id=galaxy_nexus_hspa_pogo_desk_dock&feature=accessories !!! [22:15] ah, sweet. about time [22:16] supposedly 4.0.4 will turn on the dock mode bits [22:16] wait, hspa+ only [22:16] isn't that not verizon? [22:17] yea, but I've seen reports of it working with verizon [22:17] but Google Play store only sells the hspa+ version of the phone [22:17] greg-g: Which ones? I've pretty much turned off the planet [22:18] http://www.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones-accessories/EDD-D1F8BEBSTD [22:20] http://www.expansys-usa.com/ft.aspx?k=253487 [22:21] Blazeix: so yea hmmm, guess it's hard to say if it's software issues or not [22:53] all quiet in the chat, i see. [22:53] ColonelPanic001: howdy, long time no see! [23:25] gamerchick02: WE're at CHC now [23:26] ah. i'm in my pjs after cleaning. i need to get my butt back out there. [23:26] having fun? [23:27] cleaning? you should be at CHC [23:27] the cleaning is done. [23:27] i should be there. [23:27] oh well... [23:28] make it so! [23:28] pjs! [23:28] so wear them [23:30] next week, depending on weather and work commitment. :)