Sarvattmlankhorst: morning!05:54
Sarvattamazing work on the lts backports renaming btw, cant believe you got it working05:55
mlankhorstall the stuff was already in place, I just refined it a little :)05:55
mlankhorstbut thanks :)05:57
Sarvatti cant believe you got nouveau working outside for cairo 1.12 too outside of the libdrm-nouveau2 change too, really awesome :)06:00
Sarvattand that wasnt english but yeah06:00
mlankhorstdebian needs some more fixes to kernel drm, i have them but untested06:00
mlankhorsttiling's fun10:55
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mlankhorstbryceh: awake yet?17:21
brycehmlankhorst, what's up?17:53
mlankhorstoh the renamed stack thing. We can't support it because it's impossible to remove properly atm afterwards.17:57
mlankhorstAnd the binary drivers will be uninstallable although that would be trivial to fix17:59
tjaaltonwasn't the plan to offer a script a'la ppa-purge to allow downgrades17:59
tjaaltonor what do you mean by "impossible to remove afterwards"?18:00
mlankhorsttjaalton: Because of the Replaces: unrenamed if you install the older version it won't install right.18:00
tjaaltonuse the force18:01
mlankhorstI'm going to try another version with Conflicts instead of Breaks18:02
brycehwhere there's a will there's a way :-)18:02
tjaaltonor just don't support downgrades18:02
tjaaltonno, conflicts is wrong18:02
brycehanyone know if we formally support downgrading from a .2 lts back to the .0?18:03
mlankhorstalso fun will be if you try to upgrade from renamed stack to quantal18:03
tjaaltonnothing new :18:03
tjaaltonwasn't it decided as "unsupported"?18:04
mlankhorstyeah but if we want to do an announcement we might want to emphasise those things..18:04
tjaaltonit's not coming before january..18:06
tjaaltonbut yeah, of course18:07
tjaaltonit wouldn't be that hard to allow upgrades though, if the version number would be less than in quantal (-XubuntuX~lbq) and the package replaced the renamed one18:12
tjaaltonthe version of the renamed package was lower, and the proper quantal package had provides/replaces: renamed.. but it would be fun to script the build of the renamed package from that :)18:14
tjaaltonso, just don't allow upgrades to non-lts releases..18:14
tjaaltonthe stack on T will have butt-ugly control files..18:15
tjaaltonand then that stack will be the last backported one, so you get to do the above at least once18:16
mlankhorsttjaalton: I think I'm just going to create a real metapackage by then that defines every possible renamed package from quantal onward..18:17
tjaaltonthat won't help18:18
Sarvattit's using replaces? yeah that totally wont downgrade right, you would have to purge then reinstall the unrenamed packages :(18:18
mlankhorsttjaalton: Why not?18:19
tjaaltonmlankhorst: the new real packages need to replace the old renamed ones18:19
tjaaltonnew unrenamed packages18:19
tjaaltonlet me stop my head spinning..18:20
mlankhorsttjaalton: I know, but I mean if it upgrades to that fake package first I could make those depend on the unrenamed package.18:20
tjaaltonmlankhorst: it will update the metapackage but leave the old renamed packages installed18:21
tjaaltonuh, maybe this is too abstract to handle18:22
tjaaltonin my little brain anyway18:22
mlankhorsttjaalton: Could we at least add a Conflicts: package >> currentversion to renamed stack?18:23
mlankhorstor would that break too18:23
tjaaltonwhat would that solve?18:24
mlankhorstso upgrading to unrenamed will remove those renamed packages first..18:25
mlankhorstbetween lts releases18:25
tjaaltonthat's not how dpkg works18:26
tjaaltonif you need details you can read the policy, the way the pre/postinst scripts are run etc, it's a nice diagram :)18:27
tjaaltondebian policy that is18:27
mlankhorstcan you add a version to replaces: ?18:28
mlankhorstWe definitely should add a version to our control files for replaces then, so in future upgrades we could bump version and do a replaces for all the possible renamed versions to upgrade back to next lts. :)18:31
mlankhorstFortunately it's automated enough now to simply add it, bump version number, upload it to launchpad and check next day.18:34
tjaaltonadded to which control file, the renamed or unrenamed package?18:41
tjaaltonso 'renamed; Replaces: unrenamed (<< version)18:43
tjaaltonok, I don't understand the rest of the sentence then :)18:44
mlankhorstand for r Replaces: unrenamed (<< lts), renamed118:44
mlankhorstand for next lts the package will have: Replaces: all renamed versions18:44
tjaaltonwell, the releases can have real updates too, so versioned replaces need manual thinking18:49
tjaaltonwould be great if you could write these cases in a wiki or so, a lot easier to review than trying to read between the lines here :)18:50
mlankhorstI'm still not entirely sure yet and experimenting18:51
tjaaltondoesn't matter, wiki can be edited :)18:53
brycehfwiw I directed them not to mention X stack in the announce they're prepping.  Don't think widespread usage right now is going to buy us anything (except support questions)19:07
brycehtjaalton, mlankhorst if someone adds the ppa and does just a regular dist-upgrade, it won't actually upgrade the X stack will it?  they have to specifically install the metapackage right?19:09
mlankhorstbut it might be better to remove anyhow19:12
brycehno, I think leave it in the ppa.  Removing it would sort of be defeating the purpose...19:19
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