[07:02] <dholbach> good morning
[07:11] <dpm> good morning
[07:25] <ajmitch> hi dpm
[07:25] <ajmitch> & dholbach :)
[07:25] <dholbach> :)
[07:25] <ajmitch> dpm: I suppose I should file a bug against qreator - close button didn't work when I was testing it :)
[07:30] <dpm> hi ajmitch, sure, and thanks for testing!
[07:30] <ajmitch> np, once I figured out the double-click, it looks quite nice :)
[07:31] <dpm> ajmitch, yeah, that's an annoyance of the default behaviour of Gtk.IconView. I don't like it, either. I've filed a bug and asked around, but there doesn't seem to be any way around it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/qreator/+bug/1006635
[07:32] <ajmitch> yeah I saw that & the question on askubuntu
[07:33] <dpm> can't reproduce the closing button not working here, but I'm on a newer version from the stable PPA
[07:34] <ajmitch> by the close button, I mean the one of the help screen
[07:36] <dpm> ah, that one, I fixed that in the last version in the PPA, I just haven't released it as an ARB package
[07:37] <ajmitch> ok
[07:37] <dpm> ajmitch, https://bugs.launchpad.net/qreator/+bug/1001750
[07:38] <ajmitch> ah right, I missed that bug :)
[07:39] <dpm> ajmitch, quick question, what happens exactly after an app has been voted and gets the go-ahead? Is the PPA copied from staging to the ARB ppa and then finally uploaded to extras?
[07:40] <ajmitch> not copied, re-uploaded to the ARB PPA, and as far as I know, it's an automatic copy from there to extras.ubuntu.com
[07:40] <dpm> ah, I see
[07:40] <ajmitch> assuming it's not the same thing covered up with a different virtualhost
[07:40]  * dpm was wondering what the purpose of the ARB PPA was
[07:40] <dpm> now I get it
[07:42] <ajmitch> looks to be a different server, so I'll assume it's copied automatically
[07:43] <dpm> ah, gotcha
[07:43] <dpm> btw, I should have probably re-submitted qreator 12.05.6 (the staging PPA has 12.05.4), but I didn't want to disrupt the testing that had already been done. Furthermore, the idea of the app is to road-test the app developer process and blog about it, so I might as well test the 'submit an update' path after it's been published too :-)
[07:44] <ajmitch> ok :)
[07:44] <ajmitch> odd, extras.ubuntu.com reports the apache2 version that's in hardy
[07:44] <dpm> It's been fun so far, can't wait to get it in the SC, so thanks a lot for the review :)
[07:44] <ajmitch> I didn't think IS still had any hardy servers :)
[07:44]  * ajmitch is hoping for more people to respond on the mailing list
[07:45] <ajmitch> I'm pretty sure it's majority vote, so it goes in once there are 4 +1s from ARB members
[07:45] <dpm> yeah, I'm just happy that it's up for vote already :)
[07:45]  * ajmitch wouldn't mind changing that to 2 or 3
[07:45] <dpm> :)
[07:46] <ajmitch> more that we don't want to block too much on waiting for votes, it's generally been 2 MOTU +1s to get a new package through REVU in the past
[07:51]  * ajmitch also wishes that unity didn't need to be restarted for new lenses :)
[08:02] <dpm> and there goes another app up for voting \o/
[08:06] <ajmitch> dpm: yep, got 1 other to vote on also
[08:06] <dpm> awesome
[08:06] <ajmitch> trying to get faster on them :)
[13:28] <mhall119> wendar: ping
[13:29] <wendar> mhall119: hi
[13:30] <wendar> ajmitch: it's 3 +1 votes
[13:30] <wendar> ajmitch: so, doesn't matter how large or small the group grows
[13:31] <mhall119> wendar: hi, I heard you already started on an ARB backend for pkgme, I was hoping I could ask you some questions about it
[13:31] <wendar> ajmitch: that feels about right to me, since one of the votes is usually the person who did the fixup work, and a couple of extra sets of eyes on the work are nice
[13:31] <wendar> mhall119: sure
[13:31] <mhall119> wendar: I was told you were making kind of a wrapper around the other backends, is that right?
[13:31] <wendar> mhall119: it's just it's own backend
[13:32] <mhall119> is it calling scripts in other backends?
[13:32] <wendar> no
[13:32] <wendar> but, most of the code is in pkgme itself
[13:32] <wendar> and it's using all that code the same
[13:32] <wendar> the backends are quite simple
[13:32] <mhall119> oh, then how will it deal with differences between C apps and Python apps?
[13:33] <mhall119> or, those using different build systems
[13:33] <wendar> ARB apps are *very* simple, they just leave dh to sort out the difference
[13:33] <wendar> dh is very smart about choosing between running a makefile, versus setup.py, etc
[13:34] <mhall119> oh, so what does the ARB backend do then?
[13:34] <wendar> writes a simple debian/rules file for dh, and lets dh do the work
[13:35] <mhall119> does it just set the install prefix to /opt/extras.ubuntu.com/<appname>?
[13:35] <wendar> that's the main thing, yes
[13:35] <mhall119> or do anything with dependencies (build and runtime)/
[13:36] <wendar> we don't need special values in the control file anymore
[13:36] <wendar> it doesn't do anything with dependencies, because doing that requires executing arbitrary code, which we can't do on the MyApps backend
[13:37] <wendar> (that's why we can't use the regular Python backend)
[13:38] <mhall119> it could still be done by the app author to create ARB-ready packages though, for uploading to their PPA
[13:39] <mhall119> is you backend code somewhere I can look at it?  I'm going to write one for Unity Lenses, but trying to figure out how to deal with them being written in different langauges
[13:44] <wendar> I haven't pushed the branch up yet
[13:45] <wendar> I leave for work in about an hour, but I'll try to get it presentable tonight
[13:45] <wendar> mhall119: it would be nice if the lenses backend used the ARB backend
[13:46] <wendar> they're mostly the same
[13:46] <mhall119> wendar: I was told the ARB backend was calling other backends, so I was hoping to be able to chain them along
[13:46] <wendar> (unlike the other backends, which are quite different)
[13:48] <wendar> mhall119: all you really need for lenses is to check that a setup.py exists
[13:48] <wendar> (that's what the Python backend does)
[13:48] <mhall119> if it's a Python lens, yes
[13:49] <mhall119> but it can by C or Vala or some other language
[13:50] <wendar> the Vala backend searches for files with a .vala extension
[13:50] <wendar> The only place you have to worry about that in the pkgme templates is in the debian/rules file where you set the path to /opt
[13:51] <wendar> because each build system has a different way of setting /opt
[13:51] <wendar> you can also do some limited setting of depends in debian/control
[13:51] <wendar> (i.e. python apps depend on Python)
[13:52] <wendar> otherwise, the generated templates will be the same for every app
[13:53] <wendar> mhall119: the ARB templates can be really simple, they don't need to deal with all the odd edge cases of complex packages
[13:53] <wendar> (in fact, we want them to be simple, we tend to reject complex packages)
[13:56] <wendar> mhall119: the way pkgme works, you don't share code by chaining backends
[13:57] <wendar> mhall119: you share it by adding "helpers" which can be called from any backend
[13:57] <wendar> mhall119: so if we find reusable pieces from other backends, we can generalize them as helpers
[13:57] <mhall119> ah, ok
[13:58] <mhall119> I hadn't seen anythign about "helper" yet
[14:09] <wendar> they live in pkgme/helpers
[14:10] <wendar> some of the other backends have scripts with just one line
[14:10] <wendar> like backends/vala/package_name
[14:11] <wendar> the one line is 'pkgme_autoconf_package_name'
[14:11] <wendar> which is a helper script
[14:12] <wendar> FYI, the way the ARB backend works, is that the 'want' script checks for a file called 'extras.json'
[14:12] <wendar> if that file exists, then the ARB backend is chosen
[14:37] <mhall119> and where does extras.json come from?
[15:30] <mhall119> wendar: is the arb backend going to provide apparmor profiles?
[15:31] <wendar> mhall119: it won't, but the lens one can. They're really predictable for lenses/scopes
[15:31] <wendar> mhall119: in fact, that'd be a good idea for a helper
[15:31] <wendar> mhall119: I imagine many backends could benefit from apparmor profiles
[15:32] <wendar> mhall119: There might be some way we could insert a default one into every app
[15:32] <wendar> mhall119: if we assume that the Exec path in the .desktop file is the only code that needs to run
[15:32] <wendar> mhall119: but, it's still tricky to figure out what to allow on top of the default
[15:33] <wendar> mhall119: btw, are you assuming the layout we decided on for ARB-managed lenses/scopes? That might make your job easier
[15:33] <wendar> mhall119: (lens files in a lens/ directory, scope files in a scopes/scopename/ directory)
[15:37] <mhall119> wendar: yeah, but now I'm thinking I can use the setup.py or equivilent to tell where to install those
[15:37] <mhall119> I'm beginning to think a lens backend doesn't even make sense
[15:38] <wendar> mhall119: it's true that I often set the install path in setup.py for lenses
[15:38] <wendar> mhall119: we might be able to handle lenses inside the regular ARB backend
[15:38] <mhall119> that's what I'm thinking
[15:38] <wendar> mhall119: just check if there's a lens/ or scopes/ directory if we need any custom packaging
[15:40] <mhall119> you'd probably look for .lens and .scopes files, they may not be in directories
[16:03] <wendar> mhall119: sure, that'd work
[16:04] <wendar> mhall119: just remember the directories they were found in
[16:04] <wendar> (if they're needed for anything)
[16:05] <mhall119> they're not, they should be copied to /usr/share/unity/ by debhelper
[16:05] <mhall119> either by specifying in setup.py or somewhere else
[16:33] <wendar> mhall119: I generally prefer to do it all in setup.py
[16:34] <wendar> mhall119: specify a fixed path for the parts that can be installed outside /opt
[16:34] <wendar> mhall119: and a variable path for the rest, so they respect --prefix in debian/rules
[16:34] <wendar> mhall119: the best example is http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~app-review-board/ubuntu-app-review-board/unity-scopes-music-extras-precise/view/head:/setup.py
[16:36] <wendar> mhall119: (fixed paths start with /, all other paths will be /usr by default, but added to /opt/extras.ubuntu.com/packagename when that's passed as the --prefix
[21:36] <ajmitch> morning
[21:38] <stgraber> "morning"
[21:49] <ajmitch> stgraber: so I see you're on the 12.04.1 team for awhile? :)
[21:50] <stgraber> yeah