broderhey, what do i need to do to get an ubuntu cloak other than ask in here? (i'm https://launchpad.net/~broder)00:51
benonsoftwarebroder: You're aleady a Ubuntu Member so just wait for a IRC Council member to approve the cloak and add you to the team00:56
broderbenonsoftware: and asking in here is sufficient to get that started?00:57
Unit193AlanBell, Pici, topyli.   Just a little bit of IRCC hilight there.01:00
benonsoftwareThere should be a IRCC factoird01:02
Picibroder: you're all set :)02:41
Unit193broder: Congrats!02:42
IdleOneCongrats broder02:42
broderthanks folks02:43
Picicongrats on getting a cloak although you've been a dev for a while ;)02:43
broderhaha yeah, i've just been lazy :)02:44
AlanBellUnit193: benonsoftware: I have ircc on hilight, I suspect the others have too06:38
* benonsoftware apologize for the #ubuntu-ops spam06:39
Unit193I just did a monkey see, monkey do. :P06:40
AlanBellpeople are reminded that today is the deadline for nominations for the remaining IRCC position07:32
topylibenonsoftware: if you want to be amused, we discussed the factoid at great length, pondering pros and cons. a hour later we decided to add !irccouncil, only to find out it already exists :)08:16
C-4Hi, I have just been kicked by the op of #ubuntu-bd because I told him that the +O he has assigned to him there is not appropriate for a public channel. How can we solve this?08:17
C-4I asked that on #ubuntu-ops but some told be to ask here.08:17
C-4The involved operator ther is Ekushey08:17
topyliseems to be channel owner08:21
C-4He is, but also a tyrant.08:21
C-4He set +V to everyone, I told him that is unnecessary.08:21
C-4Last few conversation with him:08:23
C-4<C-4> But can you state the importance of having +O for you?08:23
C-4<Ekushey> sure, let me show you08:23
C-4--- Ekushey sets ban on *!*@wikimedia/wikitanvir08:23
C-4--- You have been kicked from #ubuntu-bd by Ekushey (Bye!)08:23
topylisuch critique doesn't seem like a very good reason for removing the critic. it might be best presented off-channel though08:23
C-4Who knows.. the fact is I cannot join.08:24
C-4Ubunutu IRC ops certainly have people to solve dispute like this, right?08:25
C-4I mean banning someone like this is not justified at all.08:25
topylithe irc council could at best talk to the owner. it would be best if you could discuss with him and resolve the ban amicably though08:28
topyli(the ircc prefers to leave as much loco channel governance to them as possible)08:28
benonsoftwaretopyli: lol, I only saw a couple lines of it being discussed :P08:29
C-4That's the point.08:29
C-4He nuked me at the first sight to show the power.08:29
topyliis the channel publicly logged?08:31
C-4You can see the whole discussion we made.08:31
C-4topyli, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/31/%23ubuntu-bd.html08:33
C-4See some there.08:33
C-4Full log is not available now I think.08:34
topyliyes there's always a little lag08:34
C-4Topyli, can you help me to find a #ubuntu-* GC?08:36
* benonsoftware thinks topyli is *technically* co-GC :P08:36
C-4Oh, thanks benonsoftware. :-)08:37
C-4Sorry, but I am a bit annoyed of such unjustified bans.08:37
C-4I am not a troll, also a fellow IRC ops in 100+ channels. I was just suggesting for something good and he banned me!08:38
C-4So disappointing.08:38
topyliyes the irc channel is the gc for all channels in the ubuntu-* namespace08:38
C-4That is what I thought. :-)08:38
topyliif this needs to be escalated however, i'd rather bother the loco council :)08:39
C-4I talked to a Freenode staff, and he asked me to ask GC about this.08:39
topylis/irc channel/irc council/08:39
C-4Topyli, he is in the logo council I think.08:39
C-4I am not sure, he is the only channel contact of #ubuntu-bd on the Ubuntu Wiki also..08:40
C-4But something has to be done, when the guy leader does not abide the law.08:40
topylihe's not on the council08:41
C-4He is not. :-)08:41
=== Gwaihir is now known as Guest56259
trijntjeHi all, we have someone taunting the ops in #ubuntu-nl, but they are away. Is this the right place to ask for a ban?08:54
trijntjethe user's nick is DAOF08:54
C-4Trijntje, if that channel has op for Freenode staffs, you could easily ask a staff.08:54
C-4On #freenode08:55
trijntjeC-4: I did, and they referred me to this channel :P08:55
C-4Usually ubuntu channel has +o to Freenode staffs.08:55
C-4Oh, my. Okay. :-P08:55
benonsoftwaretrijntje: Sadly staff nor IRCC are on the access list08:55
AlanBellbenonsoftware: that isn't a major problem08:57
trijntjeah well, I'll just wait till our admins return, or the user gets bored and leaves08:57
haneefmubarakI have an IRC question relating to Ubuntu, and believe this is where I ought to ask.08:58
haneefmubarakAnyone awake here?08:59
AlanBellhi haneefmubarak08:59
haneefmubarakSo, I was wondering if there ought to be an #ubuntu-defocus channel.08:59
haneefmubarakI would;t mind starting it, in fact, I just did...09:00
benonsoftwarehaneefmubarak: We already have #ubuntu-offtopic09:00
haneefmubarakHow do you make a channel redirect to another?09:00
AlanBelltrijntje: I believe the problem is now fixed09:00
AlanBellhaneefmubarak: don't worry about it, if you just leave #ubuntu-defocus it will disappear09:01
trijntjeAlanBell: indeed, I just noticed09:01
AlanBellJanC: you might want to consider adding freenode/staff and ubuntuirccouncil to the access list09:02
JanCI don't think I can do that, but will suggest to those who can  ☺09:03
JanCactually, they'd better give me the power to do that, as I'm the only one around most of the time...09:03
JanCAlanBell: DAOF == fujisan BTW09:08
fujisanJanC:  not in here09:09
fujisanleave me alone here09:10
fujisananyways back to work bye09:10
elkyfujisan, You've been told to stop that harassment.09:17
k1l_this guy must be bored as hell. he even comes trolling in our german channels from time to time :/09:27
haneefmubarakJust curious, what does he do?09:28
haneefmubarakk1l_: What does he do?09:29
k1l_offtopic, insults, ...  trolling09:29
haneefmubarakGive me an example.09:29
haneefmubarakk1l_: Example?09:30
k1l_you dont know trolling?09:30
haneefmubarakI do, but what kind of stuff does he do?09:30
tsimpsonwhatever it takes to get a reaction usually09:30
haneefmubarakMake everyone look stupid, say stupid stuff, paste chains, etc?09:30
k1l_haneefmubarak: disturb the support channel with unrelated offtopic links to boulevard storys.09:31
haneefmubarakBoulevard stories?09:31
k1l_or insult the ops from the ubuntu-nl  channels09:32
haneefmubarakWhat's a boulevard story?09:32
k1l_haneefmubarak: 2012-04-29:15:40:00<         fujisan > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2136265/Dentist-Anna-Mackowiak-pulled-ALL-boyfriend-Marek-Olszewski-s-teeth-dumped-her.html?ICO=most_read_module -_-09:32
haneefmubarakThat's not even valid, lola...09:33
k1l_it was at that time09:33
haneefmubarakI'm guessing you've warned him before, then?09:33
k1l_he got kicked several times before that. and dont tell me he is not trolling on purpose09:33
haneefmubarakI see.09:34
jussiHe is a serial troll - been doing it for years09:34
haneefmubarakSo he's essentially acting like an advanced 5 year old...09:34
haneefmubarakThat's a new one: Serial Troll.09:34
k1l_most ppl troll because they are bored or mad at sth. but after some time they come back to a regular basis and in our channels most trolls could be unbanned after some time. but he seems to be a very persistant one09:36
haneefmubarakI can tell.09:37
jussiI think he just likes the attention :D09:37
haneefmubarakYou all seem quite frustrated. My empathies are with you.09:37
jussiand my quassels with you :P :P :P09:37
jussi(sorry, bad joke)09:37
Tm_Tk1l_: unbanning in his case, you can forget that idea09:38
haneefmubarakI whoised you after you said it...09:38
haneefmubarakWell, give him a chance after like two weeks.09:38
Tm_Thaneefmubarak: after all these years?09:39
k1l_Tm_T: yep09:39
Tm_Tjussi01-nom: nomnomnom09:39
haneefmubarakExcuse me, but: 'da fuq?'09:39
jussi01-nomTm_T: omnomnomnom09:40
Tm_Thaneefmubarak: he has a history (and that's all that needs to be discussed of it I think)09:40
AlanBellhaneefmubarak: we tend to let people back in when they convince us that their behaviour has changed09:40
haneefmubarakI see...09:40
haneefmubarakGood policies.09:40
=== haneefmubarak is now known as HaneefMubarak
AlanBellsometimes we tell people to go away for a period of time, but it isn't the time that is important, it is the change09:40
JanCHaneefMubarak: I gave him about 500 chances, that's been more than enough, I think09:41
HaneefMubarakI once said 'gay' on ParadoxIRC, and got kb'ed from five separate channels. I apologized, and never did it again… They were fine with me (as usual) after a day or two.09:42
HaneefMubarakDid he ever recognize what he did and apologize? I wrote up a full-page letter of apology and pm'd it via a forum...09:43
k1l_as you can just see in the -nl logs he is not stopping his behaviour.09:44
HaneefMubarakI see.09:45
HaneefMubarakDo you guys speak dutch in the =nl channel?09:45
HaneefMubarakOr do you just use english?09:45
k1l_#ubuntu is the common channel of english09:46
HaneefMubarakAh, so you speak in dutch?09:47
JanCHaneefMubarak: he will apologise if he thinks that will get him in again09:49
HaneefMubarakHas he ever apologized, though?09:49
JanCbut after tens of apologies, they aren't believable anymore09:49
HaneefMubarakLike the Boy who Cried "Wolf!"...09:50
jussi01-nomAnyoen remember what the irssi script that gives you the channel names is?10:03
jussi01-nomUnit193: ahh yes, that one, thanks10:04
* Fuchs hands the ircc a pony of appreciation and some cupcakes and says thanks14:12
AlanBell\o/ a pony14:15
AlanBellhi czajkowski14:41
czajkowskiyou rang :)14:42
AlanBellhttp://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/31/%23ubuntu-irc.html background from this channel14:43
czajkowskiAlanBell: am around for the next 10 or so mins before a call14:43
AlanBellso C-4 has been banned from #ubuntu-bd and feels that it was unreasonable14:44
SergioMenesesAlanBell, ping14:45
huatsI am there too14:45
huatsso that I can backlog14:45
AlanBellthe general opinion of the ops team seems to be that on the face of it, looking at just those logs, a ban does not look to be fully justified14:46
czajkowskiAlanBell: aye it was a bit much to kick and do that to him tbh, if the loco contact is going to be that unhelpful and ban people it's not really going to help promote the loco14:46
czajkowskiAlanBell: indeed14:46
PiciHrm. that log is indeed troubling.14:50
czajkowskiAlanBell: so as ops are ye stepping in to unban the person ?14:50
AlanBellperhaps we should invite Ekushey here to have a chat14:50
czajkowskiAlanBell: thats up to ye, but given the timezone difference that may be harader.14:51
PiciPerhaps a ban reversal and an email from the ircc would be good.14:53
* C-4 walks in. Sorry, but I am not sure if it is good to talk between your discussions?14:53
AlanBellhi C-414:54
C-4Hello AlanBell. :-)14:54
C-4And all. :-)14:54
k1l_anywhere in the freenode guidelines it says something like "dont give +O because it attracts the attention of ppl who react negatively to authority" which i think was the intention at the mentioning of the +O14:54
AlanBellI think it would be best to talk to Ekushey before doing anything like removing the ban14:54
AlanBellC-4 what time is it there now?14:54
czajkowskiAlanBell: that's yer call not ours to make, but maybe we should follow up with the team14:55
czajkowskihuats: SergioMeneses ^^^14:55
Fuchsk1l_: it is against our guidelines, yes. but not against policies14:55
C-4First I need want to say I agree with Pici and Czajkowski here. Additionally..14:55
Fuchsso from a staff point of view: no rules broken. from a personal point of view: the ban was a very bad idea14:56
k1l_yep, i didnt want to make it look like its forbidden14:56
PiciFuchs: right, those are guidelines, not rules.14:56
Fuchsassuming we are talking about the #ubuntu-br one, i am here from my mobile, didnt see the paste14:56
k1l_i just wanted to state, that its a common use not to use +O14:56
C-4I am in that channel for more than a year, and that channel. People rarely joins in that channel. Specially they join when they got notified about a meeting in Ubuntu-BD mailing list..14:56
SergioMenesescompletly agree whit czajkowski14:57
PiciFuchs: ubuntu-bd14:57
Fuchsit is, and also to not place silly bans like that, but rather catalyze14:57
k1l_(which should be discussed after the ban-unban thing is resolved imho)14:57
FuchsPici: errm, xes, that. sorry14:57
C-4For moths it was only me there, and Ekushey most likely runs a server session, so I think he is not around all time / or most of the time, not sure.14:57
Fuchsso i as an external person would recommend that someone talks to the op about how to represent the project14:58
C-4Things wer this: It was +V for another guy and +O for Ekushey for a long time.. later today I told that to Ekushey and asked what was the reason of that? He did not reply to me, he just gave voice to other people on that channel but me.14:58
Fuchsit gives a bit of a bad picture.14:59
C-4I asked him why voicing everyone now? Then he voiced me and said he is going to have a breakfast..14:59
C-4Well, later when he came back I told him the facts that +O is not needed there and not even +V.14:59
C-4And you all saw the log.14:59
C-4When I said what was the reason to of +O finally, he just said, here is the reason and banned me.15:00
PiciI think we all agree with you C-4, that this was inappropriate action.15:00
C-4AlanBell and Topyli know all from the beginning.15:00
C-4So, while he is being that arrogant (no offence to him, I don't even know him), I think asking his opinion is something he does not deserve, what he deserve is a bit strong tone form IRC council members or GC whatever you say here.15:02
C-4I did not know any #ubuntu-* GC so I contacted to Freenode staff Jayne (as Freenode staffs have +o there), he said they can act when they are being asked by GCs. So later I found out this channel by poking people in #ubuntu-ops15:04
PiciC-4: We will be discussing the issue with Ekushey shortly.15:05
k1l_C-4: honestly (and as an external person) i think its always good to let the other side state its view of the things. because you never know what happend outside the public logs. not meant to be rude to you but history showed its not always that easy as it looks like. so give it a time. its not going to be a 2minutes resolving15:06
czajkowskiC-4: I think you've raised the issue and the ircc will look into it so possibly rehashing the same thing isn't going to change things right now, but rest assured it will be looked into15:07
Piciczajkowski: thanks :)15:07
C-4K1l_, totally understandable. This started this morning or so, so I am all ears.15:07
C-4Czajkowski, thanks!15:08
AlanBellEkushey: hi15:20
Ekusheyhi AlanBell15:20
Ekusheyhuge channel!15:20
Ekusheylast time i was here, it wasn't this big15:21
AlanBellyeah, all the IRC operators across the #ubuntu-* namespace are welcome to idle here15:21
AlanBelland chat and such15:21
Ekusheywasn't aware of that!15:21
AlanBellanyhow, we would like to hear a bit about the ban of C-4 from this morning15:22
AlanBellthe log of this channel from today is here http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/31/%23ubuntu-irc.html15:22
AlanBelland from #ubuntu-bd is here http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2012/05/31/%23ubuntu-bd.html15:23
Ekusheywhich part do i need to explain?15:23
AlanBellany background we are missing really, the ban looks a bit premature based on the log file15:23
Ekusheywell there's no other background to it really... he got upset about the +o and +v on channels and kept on repeating the same thing15:25
Ekusheyif you go through the old logs, you'll see that i don't get myself +o, only when i need to change the topic and so on15:26
Ekusheyhe kept as saying the same thing again and again as if i don't know freenode guidelines15:27
AlanBellthe channel flags are set up a little unusually for an Ubuntu channel15:28
Ekusheywhich flag exactly AlanBell?15:28
AlanBellnormally we suggest +votiA for operators15:29
Ekusheythis wiki page didn't exist when the channel was created :)15:30
Ekusheyreading it15:30
Ekusheyok so what changes do you suggest for the channel AlanBell?15:35
AlanBellEkushey: well I would suggest removing the ban, and having a think about the flags, we don't have any specific hard rules about them, but there are guidelines15:36
AlanBelland continue to hang about in this channel :)15:36
Ekusheyhe's on 2 more channels of mine and instead of talking to me he comes here to lodge a complaint?15:38
AlanBellreally, I wouldn't worry about that too much, this is the right place for discussing and resolving bans in the channels15:39
Ekusheyhe'll het unbanned anyway15:40
Ekusheybut what will happen if i don't, what will happen? just curious to know :)15:42
AlanBellwell we are the group contacts for all of the #ubuntu-* channels so we can trump local operators, we just avoid needing to do so by talking nicely to people ;)15:43
Ekusheyso that is what i get after 6 years of service?15:44
Ekusheynot fair ;)15:44
AlanBellwe should have a long service award15:47
AlanBellgold watch or something is traditional I think15:47
DavieyEkushey: i'd imagine after '6 years service' you'd use your power more carefully. :)15:48
EkusheyDaviey: he asked for it15:49
k1l_after 6 years of service you should have taken a look into the freenode guidelines imho.15:50
Ekusheyk1l_: i've read it already15:51
czajkowskiEkushey: he really didn't to be honest, he wanted his question answered15:51
k1l_the state that +O or +V is not reommended :/15:51
Ekusheyhi czajkowski :)15:51
k1l_and that you are running "your channel" in that way is a bad way which comes back to the whole ubuntu community imho. that is why there are guidelines how to setup channels and how to resolve issues when it comes to debatable situations. i think you should know this after 6 years of service15:52
Ekusheyk1l_: let's not take it to another direction15:53
Ekusheyother than meeting times, the only users on the channel are the bots and me15:55
AlanBellpersonally I am not massively bothered about the flags, that issue only arose due to the ban for someone questioning the unusual flags15:56
EkusheyAlanBell: i'm still confused about the flags15:57
czajkowskion which part?15:57
Ekusheyexactly which flag is incorrect?15:57
FuchsEkushey: freenode does not recommend staying op all the time, and therefore the +O flag.15:57
AlanBellthe +O and +V automatically op and voice on join15:58
AlanBell+o and +v allow you to get ops and voice from chanserv15:58
FuchsEkushey: you can op up with chanserv whenever you need it, see /msg chanserv help op15:58
AlanBellso you can do /msg changserv op #ubuntu-bd as and when you need it15:58
EkusheyI should have clarified about that!15:58
k1l_Ekushey: case sensitiveness of +o and +O15:58
Fuchs(if you have the +o flag, that is)15:58
AlanBellthis is what C-4 was trying to tell you!15:58
Ekusheyi mentioned after join here that you won't find in the logs that i get +o for me all the time... only when it's needed to change the topic and voicing someone from time to time16:01
AlanBellI have to pop out for a bit, if others could assist Ekushey with the flags and such that would be great16:01
AlanBellI haven't looked at the current setup in detail16:02
Ekusheylast time i got it was less than a day ago to logged out before deoping myself, and the incident that happend today was after i logged in today (i'm using a bnc account)16:05
Ekusheywhen someone wants to pickup an issue, they will bring up anything and everything16:06
Ekusheyas if i put on +o for days after days16:08
Ekusheyi need to leave now16:20
topyliEkushey: did you remove the ban btw?16:22
topyliI'm mobile, just having a quick peek here :)16:23
Ekusheynot yet, will do16:23
topyliok good16:24
Ekusheyczajkowski: you around?16:28
bkerensaAlanBell: who went missing in action from the ircc?19:08
AlanBellnobody bkerensa19:12
AlanBellthere were 4 applicants for 5 positions at the end of last year, we are filling the empty seat19:12
bkerensaAlanBell: ah19:13
bkerensaAlanBell: Well IRCC is doing great work imho :)19:13
k1lAlanBell: ping20:02
Unit193Side note, our LoCo has ReLoCo leads that get +V in channel to show who are the leads, no problems really.20:51
k1lAlanBell: time fo a qry?20:53
AlanBellsure, or pop into #ubuntu-irc-council20:54

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