brouschomgwtfbbq i have 240+ MB of updates00:15
greg-gsnap-l: turns out I'm an idiot and subscribed to the canonical.com/rss.xml feed00:18
gamerchick02OMG. that's a lot of updates.00:20
ColonelPanic001gamerchick02: hi00:36
gamerchick02how's it been? I've been busy and out of the room for too long.00:36
gamerchick02hanging out. been really busy00:41
gamerchick02building a computer this weekend.00:41
derekvah damn its 901:12
derekvabout coffe01:12
jrwrenwhat kind of computer are you building?01:20
rick_h_Blazeix: http://www.tdd-django-tutorial.com/tutorial/1/01:25
gamerchick02jrwren: i'm building a desktop. i5.01:35
gamerchick02actually i'm thinking of heading to bed. as boring as that is.01:35
gamerchick02i'll be on tomorrow night. see everyone tomorrow01:35
jrwrenha.  hahahaha.  haha.  http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/23/the-canonoical-community-team/02:36
rick_h_yea, that was funny. There was a funny photoshop of that as well02:41
shakes808Morning all11:47
brouschsnap-l: Do you have a minute to give me your opinion on my PyOhio talk ideas? I'd love to hear from the other Python users too - Blazeix, jrwren, shakes808?13:10
shakes808brousch: I am not a power user like the rest of them, but will give you my novice opinion13:12
brouschAll of the talks are suitable for beginners, so you are my target audience ;)13:13
Blazeixi like the sound of #3, or if you chose something specific from the list in #213:14
Blazeixlike focusing just on python in "inkscape and blender", or python on android13:14
brouschBlazeix: yeah, i would have to focus on just a few13:15
brouschor i would break #2 into 2 talks, maybe one each day13:16
brouschYou're not the only one who specifically mentioned Python on Android, so I guess there is more interest in that than I thought13:18
snap-lI like #3, but #2 is also pretty interesting.13:20
snap-lbrousch: ^^13:20
shakes808brousch: I like them all. I would be interested and enthralled by them all.13:21
shakes808#1 - As a beginner and learning GIT, Pyramid, virtualenv and other utils, this would be a really good presentation along with the hosting and how to test and present it to the masses.13:21
shakes808#2 - Like you just said, split it up into multiple talks. Could present the same program on a Linux box and then compare it to a Windows box ( I know there is a difference coming from Windows ). The other half (Embedded, Devices) would be interesting if you can show a working app on an Android device and Nintendo DS.13:21
shakes808#3 - Building a Web Framework might be alittle over the head of a novice, I would think, but still intriguing.13:21
shakes808Like I said, they all would keep my interest.13:21
brouschOK, so if all 3 talks were at the same time, which would you go to?13:22
shakes808brousch: hope that helps at all, coming from your "target audience"13:22
snap-lbrousch: none of them, because rick_h_'s talk would probably conflict. :)13:22
brouschthen i would have to cancel my talk to go to his ;)13:22
shakes808At the point where I am at, I would probably go to #1's talk because that is what I am getting into currently13:22
snap-lbrousch: In all seriousness, I'd probably pick #213:23
snap-lI couldn't care less about Django13:23
rick_h_gotta love that "Help me pick one pls"13:23
rick_h_"#1 , #2, #3"13:23
snap-lTha lady or the tiger13:23
brouschwell I did ask for comments, too13:23
snap-lHm, haven't heard of kivy13:24
brouschAnd the comments help me understand why folks would choose one over the other13:24
brouschLike there is interest in #2, if I narrow the scope to certain programs13:24
brouschThanks guys13:25
brouschAlso, this is truly an historic day. I have now been called a "fucking cunt" for something I wrote in which I was not trolling. http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2012/05/09/ubuntu-12-04-splash-screen-lockup-with-livecd/#comment-54368238613:26
shakes808brousch: looks like that was the one you were leaning towards lol13:26
snap-lbrousch: Sounds like someone is an asshole, and it isn't you.13:27
brouschshakes808: Well I think they're all interesting, and I would have to learn or re-learn for each of them13:27
brouschsnap-l: yeah, i got weeks of "thanks" and "good instructions" in the comments and then that one today13:28
shakes808For #'s 1 and 2, I would say that #1 would be more relevant than #2. #2, to me, would be something you would present for a "Look at what Python can do and come join the movement towards python" whereas #1 is more of "You are all learning or looking to replace PHP and here are the steps you need to get that started"13:30
snap-lbrousch: I think it's the impatient guest user13:31
brouschyeah, i'm pretty sure it is13:31
rick_h_some days...I feel like a badass :)13:32
brouschshakes808: Interesting view of #2. I am going more for "You all program with Python. Did you know you could also do these awesome things with it?" I'll have to make that more clear if I pick it.13:33
brouschrick_h_: Come on now. You're a badass every day13:33
shakes808brousch: I can see that point as well. I don't know how long it will take you to do what you need to do for your presentation BUT ... what if you work on both and then take a quick poll of your guests base :D13:34
brouschI have way too much other stuff. I'll be busting ass just to do one. Hopefully I won't be finishing it an hour before I present like last time ;)13:35
shakes808HA HA, hopefully not13:36
brouschThat's probably how the infamous girl-pooped-on-by-horse gif got in there13:36
shakes808???? WHAT????13:37
brouschYou can watch it, if you have an hour to waste. There's not really much useful content http://blip.tv/pyohio/django-and-google-app-engine-why-i-m-using-flask-and-amazon-ec2-543751913:38
snap-lrick_h_: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pivrz/13:39
shakes808brousch: Will watch it tonight13:42
brouschshakes808: Your time would really be better spent watching any other PyCon/PyOhio/DjangoCon video ;)13:42
shakes808HA HA13:43
shakes808I will have to search for Pyramid vids13:43
shakes808is there a PyConMi?13:43
snap-lNot yet.13:44
shakes808There should be :D13:46
shakes808I would go. Where are the PyCon's usually located? A place like a hotel or COBO or GM Towers?13:47
brouschI think so13:52
shakes808I see something about the Hyatt and some Convention Center. What would it take to get it to come to MI?13:53
brouschA miracle13:54
brouschIt was in Chicago a few years ago13:54
shakes808So it isn't always in the same place?13:54
shakes808It is the traveling show of Python lol13:55
brouschRight, it was in Chicago, then Atlanta, then California13:55
brouschPyCon is the US Python conference. There are also smaller regional conferences like PyOhio, and big conferences in Europe13:55
brouschAnd Django has its own conferences in the US and abroad13:57
shakes808I need to get on these happenings lol13:58
brouschI've actually gotten a lot from the DjangoCon talks. It's really more Python web conference since 3/4 of the talks are not Django-specific or have a very small amount of Django-specific content13:58
brouschhttp://pyvideo.org ;)13:58
brouschI watch them while I'm riding the exercise bike13:58
jrwrenbrousch: I didn't like your question. You should know which topic you are most passionate about. If you don't, then you are ambivalent about all and shouldn't give a talk. If you do, then your choice is made.14:16
brouschI am not "passionate" about any of them, but I like PyOhio and getting people to give talks is the hardest part of their job14:17
jrwrenwhen is submit deadline? I'll submit something.14:19
brouschI think my question about which talk interests you most is legitimate14:19
brouschActually I would say I'm most passionate about Python on Android. I've given a couple of talks and spent quite a bit of free time messing with it14:21
jrwrenthen I vote for that one.14:27
brouschExcellent, thanks14:37
brouschjrwren: I think you're right15:14
jrwrenabout the android talk?15:29
jrwrenhas anyone here installed android x86 on old laptop hardwrawe?15:29
brouschI tried in a virtual machine. It worked, but I couldn't get Netflix running, which was my purpose in trying it15:30
brouschHm, I may have also gotten it installed on my EeePC 901, but I'm not sure15:30
brouschjrwren: Yeah, I think you're right about the Python on Android talk. I would have the most fun putting it together, and there seems to be a decent amount of interest15:38
snap-lbrousch: You have my vote.15:44
snap-lbtw: Last month's phone bill with Ting.com: $27.0515:45
jrwrenhttp://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12368.html  "but would they boot Mandriva? Arch? Mint? Mepis?"  amused at lack of ubuntu there.15:45
brouschsnap-l: One of the things I've done is run Django on Android. You'll love that15:45
jrwrenwhat is ting.com? my vonage bill is about $17/mo post fees adn taxes15:45
snap-lbrousch: That's serious chocolate in peanut butter there15:45
jrwrenbrousch: what sql backend did you use?15:45
brouschsqlite, but not sure how far along i got15:46
snap-ljrwren: https://ting.com/why-ting/15:46
snap-lIt's mobile phone15:46
snap-lThey actually credited me for service I didn't use15:47
snap-l$2 credit for messaging, $11 credit for data15:49
snap-lAnd that was with me using it a bunch during Penguicon15:49
brouschgeez, nice15:50
snap-l$38 was my initial bill (L data, M text messages, S minutes)15:51
* snap-l is going to blog this. :)15:52
jrwrensnap-l: impressive15:52
snap-lIt's sprint, so take it for what it's worth15:52
snap-lbut my only big issues were with some drop out spots around Royal Oak, and the wifi on the phone is worse than the iPhone.15:52
snap-lmarkedly worse.15:53
brouschrequires a specific phone?15:53
jrwrensprint has good data don't they?15:53
snap-lif I hold the phone in the living room, it'll disconnect.15:53
snap-ljrwren: They're decent. 3G in Michigan15:53
snap-lhoping the Nextel decommissioning will bring more LTE. :)15:53
snap-lbrousch: Requires you to buy their phone15:53
snap-lbut it's month-to-month. No contract15:54
brouschah, darn15:54
brouschI love my new LG Spectrum15:54
jrwreni think i'd like a mifi ting devices.15:54
brouschmifi makes sense15:54
snap-lThey also support tethering on devices that support it.15:55
snap-lno extra charge. Bits are bits.15:55
snap-lYeah, at the very least get a mifi device with them15:55
snap-lEach phone is $6 charge15:56
snap-lper month15:56
jrwrenso buy the mifi outright, then $6/mo to keep it on, and that is all until I use bits? that sounds great.15:56
snap-lNuts, they seem to not have the one feature phone I wanted to get my FIL15:56
snap-lso if you have someone in your family that wants a phone for emergencies, it's $6 a month until they use it15:57
snap-lthen it's whatever they use, rounded down15:57
snap-l(ie: if they use 3 minutes, it's the S plan)15:58
snap-land if they have to call a tow truck, and get stuck on the phone for 3 hours, it just bumps up to the next level15:58
snap-lno penalties.15:58
The_Machinehey guys16:07
The_Machinequick question16:07
The_MachineI've only used linux on a very limited basis - installing ubuntu/fedora for my desktop a couple of times16:08
The_Machinei don't have a ton of time, but I would like to attempt to 'learn linux' again16:08
The_Machinebut i would like to understand it on a fundamental basis16:08
The_MachineHave any suggestions as to a fun/friendly way for newb linux learning?16:08
MaskedDriverThe_Machine: install and break it over and over again ;)16:09
The_Machinewell, i'm a full time sys admin (windows) and a father of 416:09
The_Machineso I don't have a ton of hours16:09
_stink_The_Machine: how do you want to end up using it?  as a crazy terminal guy, or a developer, or a plain old user?16:09
The_Machinebut enough to where I would like to try to learn stuff16:09
The_Machinei guess from the approach that I take with a windows sysadmin role16:10
The_MachineI can pretty much fix anything, though i'm not a dev16:10
MaskedDriverso GUI all the way? or are you a PowerShell guy?16:10
The_MachineI mix that16:10
The_MachineI know my way around the command line16:10
MaskedDriverThen Linux won't be that difficult to get. Just need to learn the terminal syntax is all16:10
The_Machinebut from a structual point of view, filesystems, permissions16:10
The_Machinehow to clone a system?  What's the best backup strategies?16:11
_stink_ok, so a sysadmin approach.16:11
The_MachineIs ubuntu a good place to start or could i benefit from another distro?16:11
The_MachineI've used ubuntu for a long time, but at the same time, i haven't for about 3 years16:11
_stink_really, any modern distro would be fine.16:11
The_Machinei had it as my primary desktop for a year, but i didn't *learn* anything.16:11
_stink_including ubuntu.16:11
MaskedDriverUbuntu does fine in the server realm. I am a CentOS server user myself, only using Ubuntu for desktop computing16:11
The_Machineexcept barrel is a neat toy, etc.16:11
The_Machinewell, i wanted to start with the desktop again16:12
The_Machineeven sysadmins have to admin desktops, right?16:12
MaskedDriverThe_Machine: not if you have enough peons you don't ;)16:12
_stink_my sense is that you would benefit most by starting with your regular old install, then picking some feature you want to try, and googling/asking here about it and plain old try it.16:12
The_Machinei'm a janitor - no peons.16:13
MaskedDriverMy backups aren't typically "good" so I won't help you there.. I just tarball my entire install and move it to my redundant drive machine16:13
The_Machineconfigure SANs, configure backups, configure switches, configure databases, configure mail servers, roll out OS deployments16:13
The_Machineoh, and fix my mouse cursor.16:13
_stink_like backups, or software firewalls, or whatever16:13
MaskedDriverFirewall: ClearOS ftw16:13
The_Machinepolish my iphone16:14
The_Machineso i do everything16:14
_stink_all i can say is that i "learned linux" by simply using it and trying stuff that i thought would be fun or good.16:14
The_MachineI wonder if I should carry around two laptops :P16:14
MaskedDriver_stink_: that's how I learned too... trial and error16:14
MaskedDriverand lots and lots of Google16:14
The_Machineyea, i mean..  i did that for years16:14
The_Machinebut i never learned a ton16:14
The_Machineactually, it worked a little too well.16:15
_stink_The_Machine: did you ask humans too?16:15
MaskedDriveryou probably didn't have a specific goal16:15
The_Machinenothing ever broke16:15
The_Machineso many damn things are web based now16:15
MaskedDriverPicking up Linux just to learn it is a hard thing... but picking up linux to learn how to set up a secure and stable web server helps16:15
The_Machineweb servers are things i know least of..16:16
The_Machineset up an apache server or two16:16
The_MachineIIS all the way though, when it comes to production stuff16:16
The_Machine(yes, ew?  Works fine for me...)16:16
The_Machinei never got the hate for IIS16:16
The_Machineif you know it, it works.16:16
* The_Machine has never had an issue.16:16
MaskedDriverI'm a PHP developer, so IIS is the devil for guys like me16:16
The_Machinei guess for devs i can see that16:16
The_Machinebut when it comes to just hosting stuff that is preconfigured, i've always found things just move smooth16:17
The_MachineSharePoint or Exchange and those MS type technologies16:17
The_Machineor ASP stuff16:17
MaskedDriverdepends.. if you're a .NET developer, IIS all the way. I have a windows 2008 R2 server that's actually a virtual host for my CentOS web server16:17
The_MachineI just say OK and make it happen16:17
* The_Machine nods16:17
MaskedDriverbeen dabbling in .NET so I have IIS set up on that16:17
MaskedDriverbut I'm so used to editing a simple conf file for my web server, that the gui tools confuse me16:18
MaskedDriverand PowerShell documentation isn't the best16:18
The_Machinei don't do a ton of powershell stuff16:18
MaskedDriverI have a little cheat sheet book for it, but meh16:18
The_Machinebut it's pretty fun16:18
The_Machineit will become more and more relevent if/when windows makes more server OSes16:18
The_Machinei don't really know how to program anything.16:19
The_MachineI guess I should learn.16:19
MaskedDriverwell, Server 2012 has the option to install PowerShell only... no GUI at all16:19
* The_Machine was cutting down a tree yesterday16:19
The_Machine2008 had that option16:19
The_Machinewhere do you guys live?16:19
MaskedDriverthat install lasted me about 15 minutes and I cried and deleted the virutal machine I was testing it with16:19
* The_Machine guesses west side of the state16:19
MaskedDriverI'm about 30 min north of Detroit.. Oakland County16:20
The_Machinei'm in bloomfield16:20
The_Machineparents live in troy16:20
The_Machinegrew up in royal oak16:20
* The_Machine nods16:20
The_Machinecool.  I'm right by the silverdome so not far.16:20
MaskedDrivernice.. I just moved up here last June16:20
The_Machinesame here16:20
MaskedDrivercame from Ohio originally16:20
The_MachineIt was last september16:20
The_Machineoh really?  that's funny, i know another linux developer who moved up here from ohio too16:21
The_Machineand he works in troy16:21
MaskedDrivernot me lol16:21
The_Machineyea, he does come on freenode though16:21
The_MachineI gotta go - have to drive to my next appt16:22
MaskedDriverI was a web developer at Ohio State for 2 years after graduating there, met a girl a year in from up here and ended up moving up16:22
The_Machine(travelling consultant)16:22
MaskedDriverThe_Machine: good luck with your Linux persuits16:22
The_Machinenice.  did you get married?16:22
MaskedDrivernot yet16:22
The_Machinecool.  see ya around!16:23
MaskedDriversnap-l: usually dead in here?16:28
snap-lSometimes, during the work-day16:28
MaskedDriverfirst time in here in a long time16:29
snap-lhttp://www.alderac.com/thunderstone/2012/05/26/download-thunderstone-print-and-play/ <- This is awesome16:29
rick_h_feeling less badass, I didn't get anything to/back from space today: http://goo.gl/OC5aS16:32
snap-lrick_h_: You're still a badass16:34
snap-lthough a badass that uses UPS to get things to and from space. :)16:34
jrwrenI love this. http://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/djangos-cbvs-were-a-mistake/16:36
jrwrenlol @ you guys calling Server Core "PowerShell only"16:40
MaskedDriveryou have to use PowerShell to use anything. It's a super dumbed-down UI16:42
jrwrenits called "Server Core"16:42
MaskedDrivergettin all technicall on us I see16:43
MaskedDriverwith one l16:43
jrwrenproper vocabulary is important.16:43
MaskedDriverso I've heard16:43
jrwrenotherwise, I say "bad" and you think it is good like Michael Jackson's bad, but I meant bad like COPS and bad boys bad.16:44
MaskedDriveror somebody who is just bad at everything16:44
MaskedDriverbut what you're arguing is context, not vocabulary16:44
jrwrenand semantics are important16:53
MaskedDriverwhat I've been saying all along ;)16:54
snap-lWhich should read: X will destroy us all!16:57
snap-lAlso, apparently I can't go a month without some BS speculation on Valve / Steam for Linux17:00
Blazeixooh, valve is finally releasing it, right?17:01
snap-lNo, apparently they hired someone17:01
snap-lwho apparently has done Linuxy things in the past17:02
Blazeixi hear they're releasing it july 17th17:02
snap-lwhich clearly suggests they're working on it17:02
snap-lBlazeix: I hear they're releasing it when the Mayan calendar runs out17:02
snap-land it'll have every Valve game on it, day of release.17:02
snap-land then the world will end.17:03
MaskedDriversnap-l: sounds pretty amazing to me :p17:03
Blazeixworth it17:03
nixternalsome scientists say the mayan calendar already ran out, and if that is the case, well then Valve has yet another late release17:03
MaskedDriverone last hoo-rah17:03
brouschsnap-l: I would like to subscribe to your newsletter17:03
snap-lnixternal: I thought they found a memo on the Mayan Calendar17:03
MaskedDriversnap-l: it was a conf file17:04
nixternalyeah, supposedly the mayans invented GTD, not Allen17:04
snap-l"Dear future mayans: should this calendar run out, please order a replacement supply at the following address"17:04
nixternalsadly enough, it was a local staples address17:04
snap-lnixternal: Nah, the mayans invented Steven Covey17:04
snap-lThe 7 habits of effective Mayan17:05
snap-land the refillable planner17:05
snap-lRemember, the A priority is next to godliness.17:05
MaskedDriversnap-l: sounds familiar17:06
snap-lSharpen the saw, because a dull saw makes a really bad sacrifice17:06
snap-lhttp://archive.org/details/audio_podcast <- Yay, OMC is on the front page. :)18:12
snap-l25 more to 100 items. :)18:13
brouschYou da man!18:14
greg-gsnap-l: nice19:17
snap-lthanks. :)19:42
brouschrick_h_ is my idol. I am on steroids for some allergy thing now.20:44
rick_h_ruh roh20:45
rick_h_how many mg did they put you on?20:45
shakes808have a good one all20:45
rick_h_brousch: ooh, that's a good dose20:48
brouschI am afraid I will rage out and beat my family20:48
rick_h_I've gone from 10-6020:48
rick_h_when it gets up there it's sucky20:48
brouschI've never had steroids before20:48
brouschWhat sucks about it?20:50
_stink_you've never seen the public service commercial about what happpens to the football and basketball if you take steroids?20:57
brouschI have not20:57
_stink_en espanol20:58
brouschgee, thanks20:59
brouschSubmitted my talk for PyOhio23:39
rick_h_brousch: yay!23:40
brouschNow I get to make 10,000 screenshots from android23:42

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