[00:15] omgwtfbbq i have 240+ MB of updates [00:18] snap-l: turns out I'm an idiot and subscribed to the canonical.com/rss.xml feed [00:20] OMG. that's a lot of updates. [00:36] gamerchick02: hi [00:36] how's it been? I've been busy and out of the room for too long. [00:36] okay [00:37] you? [00:41] good! [00:41] hanging out. been really busy [00:41] building a computer this weekend. [01:12] ah damn its 9 [01:12] forgot [01:12] about coffe [01:14] doh [01:20] what kind of computer are you building? [01:25] Blazeix: http://www.tdd-django-tutorial.com/tutorial/1/ [01:35] jrwren: i'm building a desktop. i5. [01:35] actually i'm thinking of heading to bed. as boring as that is. [01:35] i'll be on tomorrow night. see everyone tomorrow [02:36] ha. hahahaha. haha. http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/05/23/the-canonoical-community-team/ [02:41] yea, that was funny. There was a funny photoshop of that as well [11:47] Morning all [12:38] morning [12:38] morning [12:38] MORNING [13:10] snap-l: Do you have a minute to give me your opinion on my PyOhio talk ideas? I'd love to hear from the other Python users too - Blazeix, jrwren, shakes808? [13:10] http://paste.mitechie.com/show/678/ [13:12] brousch: I am not a power user like the rest of them, but will give you my novice opinion [13:13] All of the talks are suitable for beginners, so you are my target audience ;) [13:14] i like the sound of #3, or if you chose something specific from the list in #2 [13:14] like focusing just on python in "inkscape and blender", or python on android [13:15] Blazeix: yeah, i would have to focus on just a few [13:16] or i would break #2 into 2 talks, maybe one each day [13:18] You're not the only one who specifically mentioned Python on Android, so I guess there is more interest in that than I thought [13:20] I like #3, but #2 is also pretty interesting. [13:20] brousch: ^^ [13:21] brousch: I like them all. I would be interested and enthralled by them all. [13:21] #1 - As a beginner and learning GIT, Pyramid, virtualenv and other utils, this would be a really good presentation along with the hosting and how to test and present it to the masses. [13:21] #2 - Like you just said, split it up into multiple talks. Could present the same program on a Linux box and then compare it to a Windows box ( I know there is a difference coming from Windows ). The other half (Embedded, Devices) would be interesting if you can show a working app on an Android device and Nintendo DS. [13:21] #3 - Building a Web Framework might be alittle over the head of a novice, I would think, but still intriguing. [13:21] Like I said, they all would keep my interest. [13:22] OK, so if all 3 talks were at the same time, which would you go to? [13:22] brousch: hope that helps at all, coming from your "target audience" [13:22] brousch: none of them, because rick_h_'s talk would probably conflict. :) [13:22] then i would have to cancel my talk to go to his ;) [13:22] At the point where I am at, I would probably go to #1's talk because that is what I am getting into currently [13:23] brousch: In all seriousness, I'd probably pick #2 [13:23] I couldn't care less about Django [13:23] gotta love that "Help me pick one pls" [13:23] "#1 , #2, #3" [13:23] Tha lady or the tiger [13:23] well I did ask for comments, too [13:24] Hm, haven't heard of kivy [13:24] And the comments help me understand why folks would choose one over the other [13:24] Like there is interest in #2, if I narrow the scope to certain programs [13:25] Thanks guys [13:26] Also, this is truly an historic day. I have now been called a "fucking cunt" for something I wrote in which I was not trolling. http://clusterbleep.net/blog/2012/05/09/ubuntu-12-04-splash-screen-lockup-with-livecd/#comment-543682386 [13:26] brousch: looks like that was the one you were leaning towards lol [13:27] brousch: Sounds like someone is an asshole, and it isn't you. [13:27] shakes808: Well I think they're all interesting, and I would have to learn or re-learn for each of them [13:27] gotcha [13:28] snap-l: yeah, i got weeks of "thanks" and "good instructions" in the comments and then that one today [13:30] For #'s 1 and 2, I would say that #1 would be more relevant than #2. #2, to me, would be something you would present for a "Look at what Python can do and come join the movement towards python" whereas #1 is more of "You are all learning or looking to replace PHP and here are the steps you need to get that started" [13:31] brousch: I think it's the impatient guest user [13:31] yeah, i'm pretty sure it is [13:32] some days...I feel like a badass :) [13:33] shakes808: Interesting view of #2. I am going more for "You all program with Python. Did you know you could also do these awesome things with it?" I'll have to make that more clear if I pick it. [13:33] rick_h_: Come on now. You're a badass every day [13:34] brousch: I can see that point as well. I don't know how long it will take you to do what you need to do for your presentation BUT ... what if you work on both and then take a quick poll of your guests base :D [13:34] lol [13:35] I have way too much other stuff. I'll be busting ass just to do one. Hopefully I won't be finishing it an hour before I present like last time ;) [13:36] HA HA, hopefully not [13:36] That's probably how the infamous girl-pooped-on-by-horse gif got in there [13:37] ???? WHAT???? [13:38] You can watch it, if you have an hour to waste. There's not really much useful content http://blip.tv/pyohio/django-and-google-app-engine-why-i-m-using-flask-and-amazon-ec2-5437519 [13:39] rick_h_: http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pivrz/ [13:42] brousch: Will watch it tonight [13:42] shakes808: Your time would really be better spent watching any other PyCon/PyOhio/DjangoCon video ;) [13:43] HA HA [13:43] I will have to search for Pyramid vids [13:43] is there a PyConMi? [13:44] Not yet. [13:46] There should be :D [13:47] I would go. Where are the PyCon's usually located? A place like a hotel or COBO or GM Towers? [13:52] I think so [13:53] I see something about the Hyatt and some Convention Center. What would it take to get it to come to MI? [13:54] A miracle [13:54] It was in Chicago a few years ago [13:54] So it isn't always in the same place? [13:55] It is the traveling show of Python lol [13:55] Right, it was in Chicago, then Atlanta, then California [13:55] PyCon is the US Python conference. There are also smaller regional conferences like PyOhio, and big conferences in Europe [13:57] cool [13:57] And Django has its own conferences in the US and abroad [13:58] I need to get on these happenings lol [13:58] I've actually gotten a lot from the DjangoCon talks. It's really more Python web conference since 3/4 of the talks are not Django-specific or have a very small amount of Django-specific content [13:58] http://pyvideo.org ;) [13:58] I watch them while I'm riding the exercise bike [13:59] nice [14:16] brousch: I didn't like your question. You should know which topic you are most passionate about. If you don't, then you are ambivalent about all and shouldn't give a talk. If you do, then your choice is made. [14:16] bah [14:17] I am not "passionate" about any of them, but I like PyOhio and getting people to give talks is the hardest part of their job [14:19] when is submit deadline? I'll submit something. [14:19] I think my question about which talk interests you most is legitimate [14:19] Tomorrow [14:21] Actually I would say I'm most passionate about Python on Android. I've given a couple of talks and spent quite a bit of free time messing with it [14:27] then I vote for that one. [14:37] Excellent, thanks [15:14] jrwren: I think you're right [15:29] about the android talk? [15:29] has anyone here installed android x86 on old laptop hardwrawe? [15:30] I tried in a virtual machine. It worked, but I couldn't get Netflix running, which was my purpose in trying it [15:30] Hm, I may have also gotten it installed on my EeePC 901, but I'm not sure [15:38] jrwren: Yeah, I think you're right about the Python on Android talk. I would have the most fun putting it together, and there seems to be a decent amount of interest [15:44] brousch: You have my vote. [15:45] btw: Last month's phone bill with Ting.com: $27.05 [15:45] http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12368.html "but would they boot Mandriva? Arch? Mint? Mepis?" amused at lack of ubuntu there. [15:45] snap-l: One of the things I've done is run Django on Android. You'll love that [15:45] what is ting.com? my vonage bill is about $17/mo post fees adn taxes [15:45] brousch: That's serious chocolate in peanut butter there [15:45] brousch: what sql backend did you use? [15:46] sqlite, but not sure how far along i got [15:46] jrwren: https://ting.com/why-ting/ [15:46] It's mobile phone [15:47] They actually credited me for service I didn't use [15:49] $2 credit for messaging, $11 credit for data [15:49] And that was with me using it a bunch during Penguicon [15:50] geez, nice [15:51] $38 was my initial bill (L data, M text messages, S minutes) [15:51] https://z6oc11q87.ting.com/ [15:52] * snap-l is going to blog this. :) [15:52] snap-l: impressive [15:52] It's sprint, so take it for what it's worth [15:52] but my only big issues were with some drop out spots around Royal Oak, and the wifi on the phone is worse than the iPhone. [15:53] markedly worse. [15:53] requires a specific phone? [15:53] sprint has good data don't they? [15:53] if I hold the phone in the living room, it'll disconnect. [15:53] jrwren: They're decent. 3G in Michigan [15:53] hoping the Nextel decommissioning will bring more LTE. :) [15:53] brousch: Requires you to buy their phone [15:54] but it's month-to-month. No contract [15:54] ah, darn [15:54] I love my new LG Spectrum [15:54] i think i'd like a mifi ting devices. [15:54] mifi makes sense [15:55] They also support tethering on devices that support it. [15:55] no extra charge. Bits are bits. [15:55] Yeah, at the very least get a mifi device with them [15:56] Each phone is $6 charge [15:56] per month [15:56] so buy the mifi outright, then $6/mo to keep it on, and that is all until I use bits? that sounds great. [15:56] Nuts, they seem to not have the one feature phone I wanted to get my FIL [15:56] Yep [15:57] so if you have someone in your family that wants a phone for emergencies, it's $6 a month until they use it [15:57] then it's whatever they use, rounded down [15:58] (ie: if they use 3 minutes, it's the S plan) [15:58] and if they have to call a tow truck, and get stuck on the phone for 3 hours, it just bumps up to the next level [15:58] no penalties. [16:07] hey guys [16:07] quick question [16:08] I've only used linux on a very limited basis - installing ubuntu/fedora for my desktop a couple of times [16:08] i don't have a ton of time, but I would like to attempt to 'learn linux' again [16:08] but i would like to understand it on a fundamental basis [16:08] Have any suggestions as to a fun/friendly way for newb linux learning? [16:09] The_Machine: install and break it over and over again ;) [16:09] well, i'm a full time sys admin (windows) and a father of 4 [16:09] so I don't have a ton of hours [16:09] <_stink_> The_Machine: how do you want to end up using it? as a crazy terminal guy, or a developer, or a plain old user? [16:09] but enough to where I would like to try to learn stuff [16:09] hmm [16:10] i guess from the approach that I take with a windows sysadmin role [16:10] I can pretty much fix anything, though i'm not a dev [16:10] so GUI all the way? or are you a PowerShell guy? [16:10] I mix that [16:10] I know my way around the command line [16:10] Then Linux won't be that difficult to get. Just need to learn the terminal syntax is all [16:10] but from a structual point of view, filesystems, permissions [16:11] https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/index.html [16:11] how to clone a system? What's the best backup strategies? [16:11] <_stink_> ok, so a sysadmin approach. [16:11] Is ubuntu a good place to start or could i benefit from another distro? [16:11] I've used ubuntu for a long time, but at the same time, i haven't for about 3 years [16:11] <_stink_> really, any modern distro would be fine. [16:11] i had it as my primary desktop for a year, but i didn't *learn* anything. [16:11] <_stink_> including ubuntu. [16:11] Ubuntu does fine in the server realm. I am a CentOS server user myself, only using Ubuntu for desktop computing [16:11] except barrel is a neat toy, etc. [16:12] well, i wanted to start with the desktop again [16:12] even sysadmins have to admin desktops, right? [16:12] The_Machine: not if you have enough peons you don't ;) [16:12] <_stink_> my sense is that you would benefit most by starting with your regular old install, then picking some feature you want to try, and googling/asking here about it and plain old try it. [16:12] hah [16:13] i'm a janitor - no peons. [16:13] My backups aren't typically "good" so I won't help you there.. I just tarball my entire install and move it to my redundant drive machine [16:13] configure SANs, configure backups, configure switches, configure databases, configure mail servers, roll out OS deployments [16:13] oh, and fix my mouse cursor. [16:13] <_stink_> like backups, or software firewalls, or whatever [16:13] :P [16:13] <_stink_> hah [16:13] Firewall: ClearOS ftw [16:14] polish my iphone [16:14] hah [16:14] sorry [16:14] anyway [16:14] so i do everything [16:14] <_stink_> all i can say is that i "learned linux" by simply using it and trying stuff that i thought would be fun or good. [16:14] http://www.clearfoundation.com/Software/overview.html [16:14] I wonder if I should carry around two laptops :P [16:14] _stink_: that's how I learned too... trial and error [16:14] and lots and lots of Google [16:14] <_stink_> right [16:14] yea, i mean.. i did that for years [16:14] but i never learned a ton [16:15] actually, it worked a little too well. [16:15] <_stink_> The_Machine: did you ask humans too? [16:15] you probably didn't have a specific goal [16:15] nothing ever broke [16:15] <_stink_> right [16:15] so many damn things are web based now [16:15] heh [16:15] Picking up Linux just to learn it is a hard thing... but picking up linux to learn how to set up a secure and stable web server helps [16:16] web servers are things i know least of.. [16:16] set up an apache server or two [16:16] IIS all the way though, when it comes to production stuff [16:16] (yes, ew? Works fine for me...) [16:16] icky [16:16] i never got the hate for IIS [16:16] if you know it, it works. [16:16] * The_Machine has never had an issue. [16:16] I'm a PHP developer, so IIS is the devil for guys like me [16:16] heh [16:16] i guess for devs i can see that [16:17] but when it comes to just hosting stuff that is preconfigured, i've always found things just move smooth [16:17] SharePoint or Exchange and those MS type technologies [16:17] or ASP stuff [16:17] depends.. if you're a .NET developer, IIS all the way. I have a windows 2008 R2 server that's actually a virtual host for my CentOS web server [16:17] I just say OK and make it happen [16:17] * The_Machine nods [16:17] been dabbling in .NET so I have IIS set up on that [16:18] but I'm so used to editing a simple conf file for my web server, that the gui tools confuse me [16:18] and PowerShell documentation isn't the best [16:18] i don't do a ton of powershell stuff [16:18] I have a little cheat sheet book for it, but meh [16:18] but it's pretty fun [16:18] it will become more and more relevent if/when windows makes more server OSes [16:19] i don't really know how to program anything. [16:19] I guess I should learn. [16:19] well, Server 2012 has the option to install PowerShell only... no GUI at all [16:19] * The_Machine was cutting down a tree yesterday [16:19] yep [16:19] 2008 had that option [16:19] where do you guys live? [16:19] that install lasted me about 15 minutes and I cried and deleted the virutal machine I was testing it with [16:19] * The_Machine guesses west side of the state [16:19] lol [16:20] I'm about 30 min north of Detroit.. Oakland County [16:20] i'm in bloomfield [16:20] same [16:20] parents live in troy [16:20] grew up in royal oak [16:20] Waterford [16:20] * The_Machine nods [16:20] cool. I'm right by the silverdome so not far. [16:20] nice.. I just moved up here last June [16:20] same here [16:20] came from Ohio originally [16:20] It was last september [16:21] oh really? that's funny, i know another linux developer who moved up here from ohio too [16:21] and he works in troy [16:21] not me lol [16:21] yea, he does come on freenode though [16:22] I gotta go - have to drive to my next appt [16:22] I was a web developer at Ohio State for 2 years after graduating there, met a girl a year in from up here and ended up moving up [16:22] (travelling consultant) [16:22] The_Machine: good luck with your Linux persuits [16:22] nice. did you get married? [16:22] not yet [16:23] cool. see ya around! [16:23] later [16:28] Wow [16:28] Conversation [16:28] snap-l: usually dead in here? [16:28] Sometimes, during the work-day [16:28] aye [16:29] first time in here in a long time [16:29] http://www.alderac.com/thunderstone/2012/05/26/download-thunderstone-print-and-play/ <- This is awesome [16:30] lol [16:32] feeling less badass, I didn't get anything to/back from space today: http://goo.gl/OC5aS [16:34] rick_h_: You're still a badass [16:34] though a badass that uses UPS to get things to and from space. :) [16:36] I love this. http://lukeplant.me.uk/blog/posts/djangos-cbvs-were-a-mistake/ [16:40] lol @ you guys calling Server Core "PowerShell only" [16:42] you have to use PowerShell to use anything. It's a super dumbed-down UI [16:42] yeah. [16:42] its called "Server Core" [16:43] ah [16:43] gettin all technicall on us I see [16:43] with one l [16:43] proper vocabulary is important. [16:43] so I've heard [16:44] otherwise, I say "bad" and you think it is good like Michael Jackson's bad, but I meant bad like COPS and bad boys bad. [16:44] or somebody who is just bad at everything [16:44] but what you're arguing is context, not vocabulary [16:53] semantics [16:53] and semantics are important [16:53] precisely [16:54] what I've been saying all along ;) [16:56] https://grepular.com/Protecting_Your_GNU_Linux_System_from_Dropbox [16:57] Which should read: X will destroy us all! [17:00] Also, apparently I can't go a month without some BS speculation on Valve / Steam for Linux [17:01] ooh, valve is finally releasing it, right? [17:01] No, apparently they hired someone [17:02] who apparently has done Linuxy things in the past [17:02] i hear they're releasing it july 17th [17:02] which clearly suggests they're working on it [17:02] Blazeix: I hear they're releasing it when the Mayan calendar runs out [17:02] and it'll have every Valve game on it, day of release. [17:03] and then the world will end. [17:03] snap-l: sounds pretty amazing to me :p [17:03] worth it [17:03] some scientists say the mayan calendar already ran out, and if that is the case, well then Valve has yet another late release [17:03] one last hoo-rah [17:03] snap-l: I would like to subscribe to your newsletter [17:03] nixternal: I thought they found a memo on the Mayan Calendar [17:04] snap-l: it was a conf file [17:04] yeah, supposedly the mayans invented GTD, not Allen [17:04] "Dear future mayans: should this calendar run out, please order a replacement supply at the following address" [17:04] sadly enough, it was a local staples address [17:04] interesting [17:04] nixternal: Nah, the mayans invented Steven Covey [17:05] The 7 habits of effective Mayan [17:05] and the refillable planner [17:05] Remember, the A priority is next to godliness. [17:06] snap-l: sounds familiar [17:06] Sharpen the saw, because a dull saw makes a really bad sacrifice [18:12] http://archive.org/details/audio_podcast <- Yay, OMC is on the front page. :) [18:12] woot! [18:13] 25 more to 100 items. :) [18:14] You da man! [19:17] snap-l: nice [19:42] thanks. :) [20:44] rick_h_ is my idol. I am on steroids for some allergy thing now. [20:45] ruh roh [20:45] how many mg did they put you on? [20:45] have a good one all [20:47] 50 [20:48] brousch: ooh, that's a good dose [20:48] I am afraid I will rage out and beat my family [20:48] I've gone from 10-60 [20:48] when it gets up there it's sucky [20:48] I've never had steroids before [20:50] What sucks about it? [20:57] <_stink_> you've never seen the public service commercial about what happpens to the football and basketball if you take steroids? [20:57] I have not [20:58] <_stink_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s23ccb1DWV4 [20:58] <_stink_> en espanol [20:59] gee, thanks [21:00] <_stink_> sure. [21:02] http://relapserecords.bandcamp.com/ [23:39] Submitted my talk for PyOhio [23:40] brousch: yay! [23:42] Now I get to make 10,000 screenshots from android